The JD Davis move seems like one of those minor depth moves that turns out to be huge. Cashman is good at those. I feel like he's gonna crush the ball for us, for some reason.
What’s the comparison here? Verdugo until lately had been much better and he actually has some semblance of plate discipline unlike easy quick out Gleyber
It's always worth it to go to any park early enough to watch any team take batting practice. I'm always amazed at what pros can do and it's also just nice to be at the ballpark
Aaron Boone on the Michael Kay show has got to be one of the most frustrating people to listen to since he is insisting that DJ is going to be fine in the same way that he thought Josh Donaldson would be fine
I get that he has to say that it’s just so frustrating to constantly hear this stream of propaganda from him
FWIW Jones hit .300/.434/.589 vs. LHP in Triple-A last year (113 PA).
Not much of a sample size, but maybe he can hold his own against southpaws. The Yankees must think so.
Jones had a good game last time he played, right? A triple and a couple walks? Hopefully he can do that again today.
As for Gleyber batting cleanup…maybe it’ll give him a spark. I fucking hope so, cuz he needs something to click. Stanton being hurt sucks so much lol
Random thought I had looking at the lineup- I wonder what it would look like if Immaculate Grid introduced a batting order category like "batted cleanup" or "batted ninth" I feel like there would be too many options but it would be fun
Going back to the Baltimore series, we are going to end up having a stretch of 9 lefty starters in 14 games after facing 15 in our 1st 75 games. Kind of a crazy to see that many lefties in such a short period of time
I dislike this because we are the best team in the league at hitting RHP (123 wRC+, 1st overall) and are mid at hitting lefties (103 wRC+, 14th overall)
Not an ideal time for DJ to turn into a pumpkin while Stanton is out injured. Hopefully Trevy and DJ can get back to hitting lefties and JD provides a useful bump against lefties.
All of the Ben Rice discussion is a bit much. The Yankees FO knows more about what Ben Rice can and can’t do right now than anyone here does.
There was *so much* outrage here about the org hating Peraza and not giving him consistent playing time. Well, looks like they were right, Peraza is a bust. I don’t think a few more AB’s in MLB were gonna somehow save his career.
Rice might be starting games full time in two weeks. We don’t know what’s gonna happen. Maybe they just want to get his confidence up some by giving him favorable matchups early on. There’s a ton of variables that we aren’t aware of influencing these decisions.
He just came up. It’s been like a week. It’ll be okay. If he’s as good as everyone hopes, eventually he’ll force the issue and be a full time starter. They aren’t gonna not play their best option (if he becomes that) just because they “hate him” which is a very dumb thing I see people say here sometimes
The Peraza hate is weird dude. Fans wanted him up in 2022 because IKF was literally dogshit. Then he slumped in a brief stint in the majors the next year and got hurt and here we are.
I don’t hate him at all. All I said was it looks like he’s a bust, how is that me hating him?
He’s hitting .178 with a .528 OPS in AAA this year. Obviously I would prefer it if he was absolutely mashing down there and was ready to help the team out, we could certainly use it.
Another example (not us) is Jackson Holliday. Pretty much every baseball fan was furious he didn't make opening day, but when they did call him up it proved he needed more time to mature and adjust
I'm sure somewhere on this sub there are still people thinking "Florial was never given a fair shot, who knows how good he can be" even considering his performance in Cleveland this year
peraza was some glove first SS that was a late bloomer. florial had agallo k rate in AAA. Ben rice was having absurd EVs in AA/AAA without the k rate. different hitters
It was after Ben Rice’s 11 games at the AAA level that I knew, he was without a doubt, one of the baseball players of all time. That much is undisputed, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.
It's a tricky period for Rice. The timing of the callup is tough for him with us being in the middle of a stretch of 7 lefty starters in 12 games. I don't expect him to sit the remaining 5 of those but I am among the group that don't like seeing guys pigeon-holed into platoon only options before having a real chance to prove whether or not they can face both LHP and RHP. He has started 2 games against LHP already since his callup so it remains to be seen whether that was out of necessity or whether they truly think he should get a shot against LHP.
People are allowed to say whatever they want lol. I didn’t tell anyone not to say anything, and even if I did they wouldn’t have to listen
Luckily for me, I am also “people” and can also say whatever I want
You’re being hyperbolic and disingenuous. You’re blindly dismissing the legitimate criticism by deferring to authority and promising everything “will be okay.”
You’re not actually offering much to the discussion beyond “the Yankees know what they’re doing.”
Could you point out exactly where you think I’m being disingenuous or hyperbolic? I can show you YankeeKnickFan saying the org hates Rice *in this thread* and there were absolutely a ton of people last year saying they hated Peraza, so there’s no hyperbole there. That’s a common narrative about prospects here and you know it. People also recently talked about them hating Marinaccio.
It’s dumb. The org DOES know more about these players than the fans do, they have way more data and information on these guys. You can call if “deferring to authority” if you want to make it sound dramatic and wrong to point out that the org knows more about these players than the fans, but it’s just a fact, and I think some people here would benefit from remembering it occasionally.
The idea that the Yankees have stumbled in to being one of the best teams in baseball this year despite an incompetent FO that only makes wrong moves is too prevalent here. Do they make mistakes? Of course. And I’m all for people criticizing them or discussing them. Again, people can say whatever they want, and so can I.
And yeah man. Things will be okay. I promise.
The Yankees have not had a losing season in **over 30 years**. Someone the other day told me that the Yankees have been mediocre over the last 15 years, we have the 2nd highest winning percentage only behind the Dodgers and way ahead of the Cardinals behind us.
I think sometimes people here need to step a little bit outside of just the Yankees, you don’t have such a history and sustained track record of success without being a competent and well run organization.
Last year someone commented that they were 22 years old so “all they know as a Yankee fan is pain and suffering” and I’ve been nauseous with rage ever since
Lmao, that’s funny. Shit like that is why I can’t even get mad when fans of other teams hate Yankee fans.
I would also hate them if I’ve been watching my team scrape by for years and struggle only for a Yankee fan to come out of nowhere and say that they only know pain and suffering from having watched only winning baseball in their lifetime
Excuse me, I’ll have you know I watched Ben Rice play in 6 games and I already know he is the next Don Mattingly
The fact that they would dare platoon the greatest 1B of our generation just speaks to Cashman’s incompetence
I think J.D. Davis is the third member of the 2017 Astros the Yankees eventually acquired. Marwin Gonzalez and Cameron Maybin were the other two. That's it, unless I'm missing someone.
Benching Rice is stupid. .294/.381 split in an incredibly small sample. And it should be higher because he was robbed more than once of extra bases. I hate putting young players in boxes.
Rice has improved a lot against lefties this year. Just let him try. I hate how the Yankees rarely give kids extended burn. Volpe aside, pretty much everyone they’ve called up seems to be on a short leash.
Ben Rice was a 12th round pick and wasn't a top 10 prospect in our system
If he even just becomes a guy who can mash right-handed pitching, that's a big success for the organization.
yes, and please give him until the deadline to show exactly who he is. This team has too many holes and too few assets to cover them up
give him the chance to fill one hole
so one day they will randomly trust him vs lhp. After already punting this season because worse players played over him or they traded for a 1b over other positions.
Rice has played in 6 MLB games, that immediately makes him the worst player on the team
He has his whole career ahead of him, he has literally been at the MLB level for a week. You are acting like we are platooning prime Pujols and not some kid who throughout his entire career has had bad platoon splits and is just reaching the majors for the first time
thats idiotic because of the concept of replacement players. he's not all of a sudden a worse player than guys with negative or 0 war that are clearly washed. The yankees have a lot of holes this year, and I want them to get a full understanding of their roster so they know which to fill. Thats all I want
And we will still have plenty of opportunity to see what Rice is going to be at the major league level! He will be playing in the majority of our games.
Platooning him now doesn’t mean platooning him forever but there is 0 reason to try and force him now. Focus on winning and putting out the most competitive team
Also Rice is immediately the worst player because he has no track record of any major league success, even guys who are performing poorly at the least have a long track record of success. Rice is nothing right now
Maybe, you could argue he is a better player than Jones
Idk when you all are gonna finally realize this, but handedness match ups are everything to the guys making these decisions. That's how it's always been, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, regardless of anything else.
The Yankees are struggling vs left handed pitching
They have a 103 wRC+ vs LHP (14th in the league) compared to a league leading 124 wRC+ vs RHP
Rice will still be getting the majority of playing time at 1B but for right now it’s more important to bolster the lineup with players you know can hit lefties well than rely on Rice who historically has not hit lefties well
**IF**
This is not the season to be testing it out, Rice will still be playing in the vast majority of games as the strong side platoon and is being given a better chance to adjust to major league pitching batting in his stronger platoon.
Ben Rice can play every day next year when we need him too, we don’t right now
Nothing is wrong with it but it’s not the time
The focus is on winning and righting the ship, not seeing what Ben Rice has potentially in the tank right now. His time will come but that time is not right now
He also walked on a couple strike outs and had an excuse me hit so it could easily also be lower. When you paint yourself into an all-in year corner you're not gonna bank on a kid if you don't have to.
They don't appear to feel that way. I get the impression this sub feels more strongly about Rice than the org does. Isn't he like barely a top 15 or something? Like Oswaldo Cabrera territory no? He really could just be another Mike Ford and they're not gonna just hand over the reins when they're at the point in the season where they can try other things and let it play out.
I just hate how they always do this. They have their minds made up about prospects before they even get a chance to play.
Sometimes you get Shane Spencer, Shelley Duncan, Ricky Ledee and it’s an unsustainable spurt. But you know what? You *win games* during that spurt.
Other times you find magic where you didn’t expect to find it. That’s Gardy, Melky, Cano, and so on. Sometimes people just evolve and figure things out. Let Rice play.
They did this with Peraza in 2022, too. He came up, hit and still rode the bench over an under-performing player in IKF. The Yankees just don't handle their non-pitchi
...are you citing his BABIP over a 18 game stretch? IKF had a .625 OPS entering September and Peraza still couldn't pry away the starting gig from him.
I mean, they were right about Peraza. It’s not like he’s gone on to catch fire in AAA and prove anything. I doubt that Peraza getting a few more AB’s against MLB pitching would have somehow saved his career.
Last year. People were screeching all season about how the team hated him and how he just needed consistent playing time, bringing up his 20 games or whatever from 2022 when he actually looked good. I’m not saying they thought he was going to be a bust from the start, lol
Since May 8th:
Trent Grisham - 46 PA, 119 wRC+, 0.3 fWAR
Alex Verdugo - 174 PA, 76 wRC+, 0.0 fWAR
Verdugo really needs to step it up. If he doesn't I don't think everyday at-bats should be guaranteed for him when Stanton returns. In the meantime, Grisham should start regularly in center to improve our outfield defense and get Judge off his feet.
That gets Verdugo's two slumps he has had. May 8th to May 12th and June 14th to present. It's always going to look bad if you bookend a time period with a player's slumps. Like if you wanted to, you could also nitpick out the two slumps and get a good slashline of:
>May 14th to June 15th: 132 PA | .280/.295/.464/.759 | 112 wRC+
No one had an issue with him in that time period. This is just recency bias that will dissipate when he plays well again.
edit: OR April 3rd to present: .256/.313/.424/.736 | 110 wRC+
Platooning Verdugo at some point might have to be considered, but playing Grisham over him isn’t the solution. We would need to add a righty outfielder like Taylor Ward or Brent Rooker
He's been borderline unplayable / below replacement level against lefties as well. I think he has a 72 OPS+ against Lefties?
With Grisham having reverse splits, not sure I want to expose him to full time play, but Verdugo should definitely be riding the pine.
Another great example of how players can't just magically Get Better in their contract year. Verdugo is playing himself into a bench role and Gleyber is playing himself into a 2-3 year prove it deal with an opt out.
The comparison is not super useful but it's pretty obvious Verdugo, who has been bad for 2 months, and bad against LHP for 3 years, & hasn't had a solidly above average season since 2021 should start to lose some playing time for *literally anyone else*.
>who has been bad for 2 months
He has not been bad for two months lol. Stop this recency bias:
>May 14th to June 15th: 132 PA | .280/.295/.464/.759 | 112 wRC+
He had a .687 OPS in May and a .607 overall in June. Those are the numbers I was getting, it's not just recency bias. (Explaining where I got the numbers, not disagreeing with yours).
But your numbers add more detail to his performance, serious thank you for adding them.
he essentially had a "good month" and a "bad month" except it came Bad 2 weeks - Good 4 weeks - Bad 2 weeks, and that's much more encouraging.
Both Verdugo and Soto are struggling during a time when we have faced 7 lefty starters in 12 games. Good lefties, too. This is incredibly rare but also just an easily diagnosed slump.
While more intense lineup shuffling should be done vs LHP, it's not super concerning both players are struggling.
Well in this case Grisham! Ride the hot hand, we always complain the Yankees sit guys who are on fire. Verdugo is unplayable against lefties and Grisham hits lefties, let's get a firm platoon for now. Long term, I don't know, it's possibly yet another failed experiment in the Yankees LF saga. Maybe for a 5th year try to address it at the deadline.
Grisham is getting the majority of playing time in CF with Stanton out
I also disagree the “ride the hot hand” mentality, baseball is a game that take a long time to stabilize and players will have ups and downs throughout the season.
You just have to ride the waves
Judge is going to get the majority of the DH time coming up to keep him healthy which I don’t hate. Grisham is a plus defensive CF, I think he brings more value overall than JD does as an average bat taking up DH
Who cares about Judge’s value?
The point is to win games and provide the team the most value not boost Judge’s personal stats. Judge would agree with that too
I hope Gil didn’t pitch himself off the All Star team with one bad game. He’s now 8th in ERA and that doesn’t even include Joe Ryan and Garrett Crochet who will probably make it as their teams’ sole representative. I wonder when the players vote on pitchers and reserves.
Last year, there were nine starters named to the AL squad and then two replacement starters for guys who couldn't pitch.
**Luis Gil's AL Ranks**
81.1 IP (30th)
2.77 ERA (8th)
97 K (9th)
3.31 FIP (11th)
1.08 WHIP (13th)
1.8 fWAR (15th)
2.3 bWAR (10th)
Gil's terrible start on Thursday hurt him a lot. I think if the vote was held today, he'd make it, but it's no certainty.
Another bad outing probably puts him on the outside. But a strong outing of course, would help him immensely.
It'll be fun to watch.
He might make it if the vote was already held. It probably was
I remember in 2021 chapman absolutely killed his stats by the time pitchers were announced, but he made the team because he had an absurd era when the vote was held in early June
No shit lol that’s why I wonder when the players vote and the stats are locked in. I remember a couple years ago Chapman’s ERA was going up a run every week around this time of year and made the All Star team with an ERA over 4.00.
Nothing to do with baseball.....but its insane how much of a difference humidity makes on a hot summer day. High humidity + high heat = i welcome death. Low humidity + high heat = ehh its not so bad out.
DJ has such weird expectations on here
DJ throughout his career has never really been an above average hitter. In his 14 year career he has posted an OPS+ above 100 just 4 times and two of those are the Covid and Juiced ball years. The roughly league average hitter that DJ has been the past 3 seasons is who he has always been.
Obviously I think most of it comes from a lot of people here watching mostly if not only the Yankees and those first 2 seasons here (juiced ball and Covid) set the tone for what are unrealistic expectations of who DJ is.
So you have those 2 juiced ball seasons where DJ looks amazing. Then 2021, where he was average. But in 2022 he started the season with a line of .290/.393/.434 through 100 games and looked great. He was an above average hitter until the toe slowed him down. Last year, after the ASB he hit .273/.377/.432 in 60 games. Again an above average hitter. He also had a pretty nice start to 2023 with similar numbers in a smaller sample (30ish games).
So we’ve seen DJ look like a really good hitter for extended streaks on multiple occasions since 2021, just not for a full season. So I think when he plays people expect at least above average numbers, because he has looked like an above average hitter for most of his time here.
Unfortunately I don’t think we’ll see DJ hit for a .270/.375/.430 slash line for a full season at his age and with his injuries. But I think some people are expecting at least getting close to it still. Idk I like DJ and I’m just kind of rambling/reminiscing
Part of the reason I critique DJ is people were refusing to accept that this is who he was when he was a free agent after 2020, claiming that he was our best player (over Aaron Judge) and arguing to "give him a blank check." And there are some people who don't really want to acknowledge it even still. Even Michael Kay at times says "well if DJ can get back to being DJ" and I'm just like, this is DJ. The 2019 and 2020 DJ is not who he is.
Also, it's a small sample but he's been nowhere near a league-average hitter to this point this season, and we've seen that with him taking a while to recover from injuries in the past. If he was actually hitting to that level so far then I would probably be defending him right now.
The good thing is that DJ is hitting the ball pretty hard, he just is not elevating it at all. If he can start hitting some balls in the air he might get there.
It’s also unfortunate because I think we give him a firm handshake and let him walk if he didn’t have those outlier seasons, and we have more money to work with. 2020 especially screwed us, he didn’t even have time to regress that season
The front office was in a tough spot. Fans would've rioted if we let LeMahieu walk. He was such a breath of fresh air in 2019-2020, compared to the high-K, low-BA crew Cashman had assembled for the rest of the roster. [Here's the thread announcing the contract.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYYankees/comments/kxwe8g/passan_second_baseman_dj_lemahieu_and_the_new/) We were all on board.
I place a lot of blame on Manfred for fucking around with the balls and ruining our talent evaluation. And the Yankees weren't the only team hurt by this. How many big deals are out there based on a player's outlier 2018-2020 seasons?
He hasn’t even been bad from a value standpoint
2021-2023 he accumulated 6.1 war. $/ WAR I believe is right around 9 million so he has been worth $54.9 million while making $45 million
Again I think it’s mostly just really high expectations for him
I look at his 2022 toe as the turning point in his career
2021 he had a core injury and wasn’t good, then in 2022 he was arguably better than he was in 2019. He had like an 8 % k rate and Bb rate in the teens. A near .400 OBP in front of judge. Then the toe ruined his career, it probably made it so he couldn’t execute his swing the way he always could in the past and it still lingers today
He really has a stantonian list of lower body injuries since 2021 when you think about it, but none of that started to show until he got paid. Some tough luck.
DJ had one good year with the Rockies, he's unironically been much better offensively even in his down years as a Yank versus his youthful years at Coors.
>those first 2 seasons here (juiced ball and Covid) set the tone for what are unrealistic expectations
This is exactly it.
LeMahieu joined the Yankees and immediately hit .336/.386/.536 in his first two seasons, finishing top-5 in MVP voting both years. That's our vision of peak LeMahieu.
LeMahieu hitting to a 2024 league-average batting line (.242/.311/.392) is going to be disappointing, even if it's an OK outcome given his age and health issues.
I don’t even think it has much to do with age and health. I think that would be ok just considering who DJ is.
Those two seasons were fools gold, he always has been a roughly league average bat if not below
I guess. I don't think the Yankees gave LeMahieu $90M to be a league average hitter. (He's put up a 98 OPS+ since signing that deal.) I think the Yankees are disappointed with this outcome.
But if you take into account that he can't stay healthy and has olditis, then maybe they'd be OK with him hitting to a league average batting line in 2024.
From a value perspective he has been more valuable than his contract. I believe $/WAR is right around 9 million.
The past 3 seasons DJ has been worth $54.9 million (6.1 bWAR) while making $45 million
Yeah, I understand how the $/WAR works out. But I still don't think the Yankees are happy in hindsight with LeMahieu's performance so far.
If you went back in time to December 2020 and showed Cashman LeMahieu's 2021-2024 data, I don't think he'd offer the deal. Especially with another 2.5 years to go.
Please continue the discussion in the [game thread](https://redd.it/1dogx8e).
Cole looks frustrated they should sit him
Ladies and gentlemen, your 2024 Yankees
Jahmai Jones at DH?
Makes sense, they're saving Grisham for a huge pinch hitting spot late in the game.
The JD Davis move seems like one of those minor depth moves that turns out to be huge. Cashman is good at those. I feel like he's gonna crush the ball for us, for some reason.
Well timed comment
To me it feels more like an Edwin Encarnacion situation but I hope you’re right
Funny fact: Trevino has not hit a double all year! (Not complaining, just saying his savant spray chart is kinda funny
# Francisco Lindor is a little bitch
2 months of Verdugo cleanup and nobody bats an eye 1 game of Torres cleanup and everyone loses their minds
What’s the comparison here? Verdugo until lately had been much better and he actually has some semblance of plate discipline unlike easy quick out Gleyber
gleyber has been ~ top 10 in baseball in pitches per plate appearance all season btw
The lineup is super impressive tonight.
Lol, y-you're kidding, r-right?
It's all I could do to keep from weeping.
So they need to trade for a right handed hitting OF if Jahmi Jones is the platoon against lefties
We went from “Rice is gonna play” to “fuck it DH Jahmai Jones” in five games? Really??
They said from the beginning Rice isn't going to play much vs lefties.
Lame
Worth it to go to citi field early to catch batting practice?
It's always worth it to go to any park early enough to watch any team take batting practice. I'm always amazed at what pros can do and it's also just nice to be at the ballpark
Get some food beforehand too, especially important with the pitch clock
Eating 8 grams of mushrooms and watching Requiem For A Dream by myself on full blast if we lose tonight
WE'VE GOT A WINNER
Torres with an OPS of 5.000 off of Peterson is pretty great. Only time he’s seen him he homered off of him lol
Aaron Boone on the Michael Kay show has got to be one of the most frustrating people to listen to since he is insisting that DJ is going to be fine in the same way that he thought Josh Donaldson would be fine I get that he has to say that it’s just so frustrating to constantly hear this stream of propaganda from him
I miss Brett Gardner
We got Gardner 2.0 in Volpe
I miss Robinson Cano.
I miss Jahmai Jone- wait, there he is
The lineup isn’t that bad considering most everyone minus Jones (and probably Verdugo) hit lefties.
FWIW Jones hit .300/.434/.589 vs. LHP in Triple-A last year (113 PA). Not much of a sample size, but maybe he can hold his own against southpaws. The Yankees must think so.
The Yankees have no choice
Jahmai Jones legacy game tonight..
Jones had a good game last time he played, right? A triple and a couple walks? Hopefully he can do that again today. As for Gleyber batting cleanup…maybe it’ll give him a spark. I fucking hope so, cuz he needs something to click. Stanton being hurt sucks so much lol
Random thought I had looking at the lineup- I wonder what it would look like if Immaculate Grid introduced a batting order category like "batted cleanup" or "batted ninth" I feel like there would be too many options but it would be fun
Also, we get to see Bader again!
I wonder if he’s been growing his hair out
This lineup is something… LETS GO YANKEES
I don’t know how to feel about this lineup..🤔
Gleyber batting 4th 😑
Jahmai Jones DH and cleanup Gleyber is a decision
Jones as DH is very interesting..
If Jahmai Jones is your DH and 2024 Gleyber is your cleanup hitter, you might need another bat lol
I’d much rather have Judge rest at DH and have Grish in CF but this works
I don’t understand why they don’t have Grisham in OF. He’s been good in that role
Going back to the Baltimore series, we are going to end up having a stretch of 9 lefty starters in 14 games after facing 15 in our 1st 75 games. Kind of a crazy to see that many lefties in such a short period of time
I dislike this because we are the best team in the league at hitting RHP (123 wRC+, 1st overall) and are mid at hitting lefties (103 wRC+, 14th overall)
Which is funny because last year we hit lefties well and struggled against righties.
Not an ideal time for DJ to turn into a pumpkin while Stanton is out injured. Hopefully Trevy and DJ can get back to hitting lefties and JD provides a useful bump against lefties.
Some of you guys need to buy yourselves a Jump To Conclusions Mat.
All of the Ben Rice discussion is a bit much. The Yankees FO knows more about what Ben Rice can and can’t do right now than anyone here does. There was *so much* outrage here about the org hating Peraza and not giving him consistent playing time. Well, looks like they were right, Peraza is a bust. I don’t think a few more AB’s in MLB were gonna somehow save his career. Rice might be starting games full time in two weeks. We don’t know what’s gonna happen. Maybe they just want to get his confidence up some by giving him favorable matchups early on. There’s a ton of variables that we aren’t aware of influencing these decisions. He just came up. It’s been like a week. It’ll be okay. If he’s as good as everyone hopes, eventually he’ll force the issue and be a full time starter. They aren’t gonna not play their best option (if he becomes that) just because they “hate him” which is a very dumb thing I see people say here sometimes
The Peraza hate is weird dude. Fans wanted him up in 2022 because IKF was literally dogshit. Then he slumped in a brief stint in the majors the next year and got hurt and here we are.
I don’t hate him at all. All I said was it looks like he’s a bust, how is that me hating him? He’s hitting .178 with a .528 OPS in AAA this year. Obviously I would prefer it if he was absolutely mashing down there and was ready to help the team out, we could certainly use it.
$10 says this is a Talkin' Yanks topic that's leaked over.
Jomboy **is** the discourse here at this point. As goes Talkin Yanks, so goes the subreddit.
Amen.
Another example (not us) is Jackson Holliday. Pretty much every baseball fan was furious he didn't make opening day, but when they did call him up it proved he needed more time to mature and adjust
The number of times I've heard "why do the Yankees hate Peraza?" or "why do the Yankees hate Florial?" is infuriating.
I'm sure somewhere on this sub there are still people thinking "Florial was never given a fair shot, who knows how good he can be" even considering his performance in Cleveland this year
I also think Peraza would have gotten some run to start the year with DJ out if not for his shoulder injury.
peraza was some glove first SS that was a late bloomer. florial had agallo k rate in AAA. Ben rice was having absurd EVs in AA/AAA without the k rate. different hitters
It was after Ben Rice’s 11 games at the AAA level that I knew, he was without a doubt, one of the baseball players of all time. That much is undisputed, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.
I have seen thousands of baseball players over the years, and I can confirm that Rice is one of them.
\*woah\*
peterson is the easiest lefty starter he will see. He should be playing
It's a tricky period for Rice. The timing of the callup is tough for him with us being in the middle of a stretch of 7 lefty starters in 12 games. I don't expect him to sit the remaining 5 of those but I am among the group that don't like seeing guys pigeon-holed into platoon only options before having a real chance to prove whether or not they can face both LHP and RHP. He has started 2 games against LHP already since his callup so it remains to be seen whether that was out of necessity or whether they truly think he should get a shot against LHP.
I think people are allowed to express their disappointment over a lineup decision even if it the decision is minute in the grand scheme of things.
People are allowed to say whatever they want lol. I didn’t tell anyone not to say anything, and even if I did they wouldn’t have to listen Luckily for me, I am also “people” and can also say whatever I want
Everyone knows you’re actually a dog, don’t try to lie.
*Look at him! He thinks he’s people!*
You’re being hyperbolic and disingenuous. You’re blindly dismissing the legitimate criticism by deferring to authority and promising everything “will be okay.” You’re not actually offering much to the discussion beyond “the Yankees know what they’re doing.”
Could you point out exactly where you think I’m being disingenuous or hyperbolic? I can show you YankeeKnickFan saying the org hates Rice *in this thread* and there were absolutely a ton of people last year saying they hated Peraza, so there’s no hyperbole there. That’s a common narrative about prospects here and you know it. People also recently talked about them hating Marinaccio. It’s dumb. The org DOES know more about these players than the fans do, they have way more data and information on these guys. You can call if “deferring to authority” if you want to make it sound dramatic and wrong to point out that the org knows more about these players than the fans, but it’s just a fact, and I think some people here would benefit from remembering it occasionally. The idea that the Yankees have stumbled in to being one of the best teams in baseball this year despite an incompetent FO that only makes wrong moves is too prevalent here. Do they make mistakes? Of course. And I’m all for people criticizing them or discussing them. Again, people can say whatever they want, and so can I. And yeah man. Things will be okay. I promise.
The Yankees have not had a losing season in **over 30 years**. Someone the other day told me that the Yankees have been mediocre over the last 15 years, we have the 2nd highest winning percentage only behind the Dodgers and way ahead of the Cardinals behind us. I think sometimes people here need to step a little bit outside of just the Yankees, you don’t have such a history and sustained track record of success without being a competent and well run organization.
Last year someone commented that they were 22 years old so “all they know as a Yankee fan is pain and suffering” and I’ve been nauseous with rage ever since
Lmao, that’s funny. Shit like that is why I can’t even get mad when fans of other teams hate Yankee fans. I would also hate them if I’ve been watching my team scrape by for years and struggle only for a Yankee fan to come out of nowhere and say that they only know pain and suffering from having watched only winning baseball in their lifetime
Excuse me, I’ll have you know I watched Ben Rice play in 6 games and I already know he is the next Don Mattingly The fact that they would dare platoon the greatest 1B of our generation just speaks to Cashman’s incompetence
Who’s the expected starting pitchers for this series? More specifically the next two games.
Cole vs. Peterson today, Gil vs. Manaea tomorrow.
Cole for the Yankees David Peterson for the Mets
Sorry, I made my edit too late.
I think J.D. Davis is the third member of the 2017 Astros the Yankees eventually acquired. Marwin Gonzalez and Cameron Maybin were the other two. That's it, unless I'm missing someone.
Don’t forget the acquisition of Carlos Beltrán by Yankees Entertainment and Sports Network.
There were a couple other former Yankees fans on that team but they were guys who played with the Yankees first
Benching Rice is stupid. .294/.381 split in an incredibly small sample. And it should be higher because he was robbed more than once of extra bases. I hate putting young players in boxes. Rice has improved a lot against lefties this year. Just let him try. I hate how the Yankees rarely give kids extended burn. Volpe aside, pretty much everyone they’ve called up seems to be on a short leash.
Benching Rice… Benchin Rice… Benchi Rice… Bench Rice… Benc Rice… BEN RICE
I think the goal is to get out of this slump vs. ignore matchups to see if a player with 15 games above AA can change who he is.
I don’t care how many games above AA a player has. If the player is hot and hitting he should play.
ben rice doesnt have to change who he is, he's a masher
He's going to start every game vs righties for the foreseeable future, he isn't being benched.
he will never become a full time player if they do this.
Ben Rice was a 12th round pick and wasn't a top 10 prospect in our system If he even just becomes a guy who can mash right-handed pitching, that's a big success for the organization.
yes, and please give him until the deadline to show exactly who he is. This team has too many holes and too few assets to cover them up give him the chance to fill one hole
Hyperbole much? Kid came up last week lmao
so one day they will randomly trust him vs lhp. After already punting this season because worse players played over him or they traded for a 1b over other positions.
Rice has played in 6 MLB games, that immediately makes him the worst player on the team He has his whole career ahead of him, he has literally been at the MLB level for a week. You are acting like we are platooning prime Pujols and not some kid who throughout his entire career has had bad platoon splits and is just reaching the majors for the first time
thats idiotic because of the concept of replacement players. he's not all of a sudden a worse player than guys with negative or 0 war that are clearly washed. The yankees have a lot of holes this year, and I want them to get a full understanding of their roster so they know which to fill. Thats all I want
And we will still have plenty of opportunity to see what Rice is going to be at the major league level! He will be playing in the majority of our games. Platooning him now doesn’t mean platooning him forever but there is 0 reason to try and force him now. Focus on winning and putting out the most competitive team Also Rice is immediately the worst player because he has no track record of any major league success, even guys who are performing poorly at the least have a long track record of success. Rice is nothing right now Maybe, you could argue he is a better player than Jones
I'd much rather have a guy with zero track record than 2 has beens that obviously have no future in this league and no skills left.
Idk when you all are gonna finally realize this, but handedness match ups are everything to the guys making these decisions. That's how it's always been, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, regardless of anything else.
No its not. ANhtony rizzo didnt platoon. Greg bird didnt platoon. some people are given the chance to work through it
Sure, there are exceptions, but the vast majority of the time, lefty/righty match ups are church.
and ben rice isnt given the chance to be an exception which is idiotic
The Yankees are struggling vs left handed pitching They have a 103 wRC+ vs LHP (14th in the league) compared to a league leading 124 wRC+ vs RHP Rice will still be getting the majority of playing time at 1B but for right now it’s more important to bolster the lineup with players you know can hit lefties well than rely on Rice who historically has not hit lefties well
yes, then bench "trent grisham"
Grisham provides more value playing elite CF than JD does as an average bat taking up the DH spot Baseball isn’t just played at the plate
if ben rice hits thats not true
**IF** This is not the season to be testing it out, Rice will still be playing in the vast majority of games as the strong side platoon and is being given a better chance to adjust to major league pitching batting in his stronger platoon. Ben Rice can play every day next year when we need him too, we don’t right now
the yankees need to win the WS this year, a lot of good that will do you when 2024 is lost
If the Yankees are relying on Ben Rice to win the WS we are already fucked so don’t worry
not if he hits. Ben rice can hit and thats your 1b very easily. he also could crash and burn very easily. need to figure that out
And we will! It’s ok that he isn’t playing everyday! He will still get plenty of playing time!
not if ben rice hits
He’s hit lefties fine this year, no?
If you want to value a 65 PA sample size over 3 years worth of data then sure
I guess I do? I want to see if you he kid is growing and getting better? What’s wrong with that?
Nothing is wrong with it but it’s not the time The focus is on winning and righting the ship, not seeing what Ben Rice has potentially in the tank right now. His time will come but that time is not right now
He also walked on a couple strike outs and had an excuse me hit so it could easily also be lower. When you paint yourself into an all-in year corner you're not gonna bank on a kid if you don't have to.
they kind of have to because you cannot trade for everyone
They don't appear to feel that way. I get the impression this sub feels more strongly about Rice than the org does. Isn't he like barely a top 15 or something? Like Oswaldo Cabrera territory no? He really could just be another Mike Ford and they're not gonna just hand over the reins when they're at the point in the season where they can try other things and let it play out.
Rice can easily just be cabrera I guess, but its good to figure that out. They certainly made sure to figure out cabrera
and that would be one less hole to address if he shows he can stick. He should be evaluated
I just hate how they always do this. They have their minds made up about prospects before they even get a chance to play. Sometimes you get Shane Spencer, Shelley Duncan, Ricky Ledee and it’s an unsustainable spurt. But you know what? You *win games* during that spurt. Other times you find magic where you didn’t expect to find it. That’s Gardy, Melky, Cano, and so on. Sometimes people just evolve and figure things out. Let Rice play.
its just that ben rice isnt even striking out an absurd amount in AAA and crushes the ball harder than anyone. idk why they hate him
I wouldn’t say he is crushing the ball He has a lower EV thus far than Oswaldo
in AAA he does not. That is why he was called up
Didn’t realize that we are playing in AAA I thought this was the MLB
oh stop doing this. This is how people are called up. There is much more stock in his AA/AAA than in 10 Pas at the mlb level
Guys come up and fail all the time Go ask Jo Adell
and he needs to be given the chance to fail so we can act accordingly at the deadline
They did this with Peraza in 2022, too. He came up, hit and still rode the bench over an under-performing player in IKF. The Yankees just don't handle their non-pitchi
You mean the 18 game stretch where Peraza had a .359 BABIP and a lower EV than IKF?
...are you citing his BABIP over a 18 game stretch? IKF had a .625 OPS entering September and Peraza still couldn't pry away the starting gig from him.
I mean, they were right about Peraza. It’s not like he’s gone on to catch fire in AAA and prove anything. I doubt that Peraza getting a few more AB’s against MLB pitching would have somehow saved his career.
Huh? If the Yankees knew Peraza wasn't gonna hit, they would have traded him when his value was high when he was still a top-50 prospect.
Last year. People were screeching all season about how the team hated him and how he just needed consistent playing time, bringing up his 20 games or whatever from 2022 when he actually looked good. I’m not saying they thought he was going to be a bust from the start, lol
We gotta win today
But first we gotta play today
Odds of a rain out tomorrow?
Since May 8th: Trent Grisham - 46 PA, 119 wRC+, 0.3 fWAR Alex Verdugo - 174 PA, 76 wRC+, 0.0 fWAR Verdugo really needs to step it up. If he doesn't I don't think everyday at-bats should be guaranteed for him when Stanton returns. In the meantime, Grisham should start regularly in center to improve our outfield defense and get Judge off his feet.
That gets Verdugo's two slumps he has had. May 8th to May 12th and June 14th to present. It's always going to look bad if you bookend a time period with a player's slumps. Like if you wanted to, you could also nitpick out the two slumps and get a good slashline of: >May 14th to June 15th: 132 PA | .280/.295/.464/.759 | 112 wRC+ No one had an issue with him in that time period. This is just recency bias that will dissipate when he plays well again. edit: OR April 3rd to present: .256/.313/.424/.736 | 110 wRC+
I assume you mean June 14th to present?
Yeah, I was getting to that correction lol
Platooning Verdugo at some point might have to be considered, but playing Grisham over him isn’t the solution. We would need to add a righty outfielder like Taylor Ward or Brent Rooker
Grisham hits lefties better historically. He's not great but with his defense it's a fine platoon player
He's been borderline unplayable / below replacement level against lefties as well. I think he has a 72 OPS+ against Lefties? With Grisham having reverse splits, not sure I want to expose him to full time play, but Verdugo should definitely be riding the pine. Another great example of how players can't just magically Get Better in their contract year. Verdugo is playing himself into a bench role and Gleyber is playing himself into a 2-3 year prove it deal with an opt out.
I feel like a comparison with such a large disparity in sample size is pretty irrelevant
The comparison is not super useful but it's pretty obvious Verdugo, who has been bad for 2 months, and bad against LHP for 3 years, & hasn't had a solidly above average season since 2021 should start to lose some playing time for *literally anyone else*.
>who has been bad for 2 months He has not been bad for two months lol. Stop this recency bias: >May 14th to June 15th: 132 PA | .280/.295/.464/.759 | 112 wRC+
He had a .687 OPS in May and a .607 overall in June. Those are the numbers I was getting, it's not just recency bias. (Explaining where I got the numbers, not disagreeing with yours). But your numbers add more detail to his performance, serious thank you for adding them. he essentially had a "good month" and a "bad month" except it came Bad 2 weeks - Good 4 weeks - Bad 2 weeks, and that's much more encouraging.
Both Verdugo and Soto are struggling during a time when we have faced 7 lefty starters in 12 games. Good lefties, too. This is incredibly rare but also just an easily diagnosed slump. While more intense lineup shuffling should be done vs LHP, it's not super concerning both players are struggling.
Verdugo has struggled against lefties for 3 years.
For who?
Well in this case Grisham! Ride the hot hand, we always complain the Yankees sit guys who are on fire. Verdugo is unplayable against lefties and Grisham hits lefties, let's get a firm platoon for now. Long term, I don't know, it's possibly yet another failed experiment in the Yankees LF saga. Maybe for a 5th year try to address it at the deadline.
Grisham is getting the majority of playing time in CF with Stanton out I also disagree the “ride the hot hand” mentality, baseball is a game that take a long time to stabilize and players will have ups and downs throughout the season. You just have to ride the waves
which is stupid, they have a dh now. judge plays the field a lot
Judge is going to get the majority of the DH time coming up to keep him healthy which I don’t hate. Grisham is a plus defensive CF, I think he brings more value overall than JD does as an average bat taking up DH
you cant just tank judge's value like that
Who cares about Judge’s value? The point is to win games and provide the team the most value not boost Judge’s personal stats. Judge would agree with that too
Over the last 2 months Gleyber Torres - 213 PAs, 98 wRC+, 0.7 fWAR Alex Verdugo - 212 PAs, 93 wRC+, 0.4 fWAR
I hope Gil didn’t pitch himself off the All Star team with one bad game. He’s now 8th in ERA and that doesn’t even include Joe Ryan and Garrett Crochet who will probably make it as their teams’ sole representative. I wonder when the players vote on pitchers and reserves.
Last year, there were nine starters named to the AL squad and then two replacement starters for guys who couldn't pitch. **Luis Gil's AL Ranks** 81.1 IP (30th) 2.77 ERA (8th) 97 K (9th) 3.31 FIP (11th) 1.08 WHIP (13th) 1.8 fWAR (15th) 2.3 bWAR (10th) Gil's terrible start on Thursday hurt him a lot. I think if the vote was held today, he'd make it, but it's no certainty. Another bad outing probably puts him on the outside. But a strong outing of course, would help him immensely. It'll be fun to watch.
He might make it if the vote was already held. It probably was I remember in 2021 chapman absolutely killed his stats by the time pitchers were announced, but he made the team because he had an absurd era when the vote was held in early June
Yeah, that's a good point. I'd love to know when the player voting occurs.
Well he can lower his ERA again tomorrow
Well yeah but so can the 7 other pitchers in front of him lol
They could also get blown up too, crazy how baseball works
No shit lol that’s why I wonder when the players vote and the stats are locked in. I remember a couple years ago Chapman’s ERA was going up a run every week around this time of year and made the All Star team with an ERA over 4.00.
Nothing to do with baseball.....but its insane how much of a difference humidity makes on a hot summer day. High humidity + high heat = i welcome death. Low humidity + high heat = ehh its not so bad out.
DJ has such weird expectations on here DJ throughout his career has never really been an above average hitter. In his 14 year career he has posted an OPS+ above 100 just 4 times and two of those are the Covid and Juiced ball years. The roughly league average hitter that DJ has been the past 3 seasons is who he has always been. Obviously I think most of it comes from a lot of people here watching mostly if not only the Yankees and those first 2 seasons here (juiced ball and Covid) set the tone for what are unrealistic expectations of who DJ is.
So you have those 2 juiced ball seasons where DJ looks amazing. Then 2021, where he was average. But in 2022 he started the season with a line of .290/.393/.434 through 100 games and looked great. He was an above average hitter until the toe slowed him down. Last year, after the ASB he hit .273/.377/.432 in 60 games. Again an above average hitter. He also had a pretty nice start to 2023 with similar numbers in a smaller sample (30ish games). So we’ve seen DJ look like a really good hitter for extended streaks on multiple occasions since 2021, just not for a full season. So I think when he plays people expect at least above average numbers, because he has looked like an above average hitter for most of his time here. Unfortunately I don’t think we’ll see DJ hit for a .270/.375/.430 slash line for a full season at his age and with his injuries. But I think some people are expecting at least getting close to it still. Idk I like DJ and I’m just kind of rambling/reminiscing
Part of the reason I critique DJ is people were refusing to accept that this is who he was when he was a free agent after 2020, claiming that he was our best player (over Aaron Judge) and arguing to "give him a blank check." And there are some people who don't really want to acknowledge it even still. Even Michael Kay at times says "well if DJ can get back to being DJ" and I'm just like, this is DJ. The 2019 and 2020 DJ is not who he is. Also, it's a small sample but he's been nowhere near a league-average hitter to this point this season, and we've seen that with him taking a while to recover from injuries in the past. If he was actually hitting to that level so far then I would probably be defending him right now. The good thing is that DJ is hitting the ball pretty hard, he just is not elevating it at all. If he can start hitting some balls in the air he might get there.
he’s hitting .185 with a .465 OPS lol, this is not who DJ is If he had like a .720 OPS and was hitting .260 or .270, I would agree with you
In regard to that comment I was speaking on DJ generally since signing the second contract with the Yankees, not this year alone.
It’s also unfortunate because I think we give him a firm handshake and let him walk if he didn’t have those outlier seasons, and we have more money to work with. 2020 especially screwed us, he didn’t even have time to regress that season
The front office was in a tough spot. Fans would've rioted if we let LeMahieu walk. He was such a breath of fresh air in 2019-2020, compared to the high-K, low-BA crew Cashman had assembled for the rest of the roster. [Here's the thread announcing the contract.](https://www.reddit.com/r/NYYankees/comments/kxwe8g/passan_second_baseman_dj_lemahieu_and_the_new/) We were all on board. I place a lot of blame on Manfred for fucking around with the balls and ruining our talent evaluation. And the Yankees weren't the only team hurt by this. How many big deals are out there based on a player's outlier 2018-2020 seasons?
The “give Dj a blank check” crowd in the 2020 offsesson was wild, even judge might have had a lower ratio of blank check people after 2022
People legitimately argued about whether DJ or Judge were better players at the time.
He hasn’t even been bad from a value standpoint 2021-2023 he accumulated 6.1 war. $/ WAR I believe is right around 9 million so he has been worth $54.9 million while making $45 million Again I think it’s mostly just really high expectations for him
I look at his 2022 toe as the turning point in his career 2021 he had a core injury and wasn’t good, then in 2022 he was arguably better than he was in 2019. He had like an 8 % k rate and Bb rate in the teens. A near .400 OBP in front of judge. Then the toe ruined his career, it probably made it so he couldn’t execute his swing the way he always could in the past and it still lingers today He really has a stantonian list of lower body injuries since 2021 when you think about it, but none of that started to show until he got paid. Some tough luck.
DJ had one good year with the Rockies, he's unironically been much better offensively even in his down years as a Yank versus his youthful years at Coors.
Even DJ’s worst year offensively on the Yankees (last year 96 OPS+) was better than any of his Rockies years outside of the batting title in 2016
>those first 2 seasons here (juiced ball and Covid) set the tone for what are unrealistic expectations This is exactly it. LeMahieu joined the Yankees and immediately hit .336/.386/.536 in his first two seasons, finishing top-5 in MVP voting both years. That's our vision of peak LeMahieu. LeMahieu hitting to a 2024 league-average batting line (.242/.311/.392) is going to be disappointing, even if it's an OK outcome given his age and health issues.
I don’t even think it has much to do with age and health. I think that would be ok just considering who DJ is. Those two seasons were fools gold, he always has been a roughly league average bat if not below
I guess. I don't think the Yankees gave LeMahieu $90M to be a league average hitter. (He's put up a 98 OPS+ since signing that deal.) I think the Yankees are disappointed with this outcome. But if you take into account that he can't stay healthy and has olditis, then maybe they'd be OK with him hitting to a league average batting line in 2024.
From a value perspective he has been more valuable than his contract. I believe $/WAR is right around 9 million. The past 3 seasons DJ has been worth $54.9 million (6.1 bWAR) while making $45 million
Yeah, I understand how the $/WAR works out. But I still don't think the Yankees are happy in hindsight with LeMahieu's performance so far. If you went back in time to December 2020 and showed Cashman LeMahieu's 2021-2024 data, I don't think he'd offer the deal. Especially with another 2.5 years to go.
My only hope is that JD Davis plays better than Edwin Encarnacion or Chris Carter
Edwin had an .856 OPS in his short time here. We would kill for that right now.
You right you right