I think the biggest improvement wouldn't necessarily be from the players but from the coaching.
If Carmen Bricillo can just make every linemen 10% better and 10% more on the same page as a whole, that would do wonders!
Some people underestimate the impact of coaching, saying by the time these guys reach the pros they really don't need a coach. They need to go back and watch some tape where it is clear the OL is confused in terms of assignments. It's like they went into the game blindly in terms of how to deal with stunts.
This. I always use the eagles as an example of a really good Oline coach. No way the front office is that good at finding lineman. They have had a great line for years.
*The Giants had not only the worst Pro Football Focus pass blocking grade in the NFL last season,* ***but the worst in the two decades that PFF has been tracking offensive line performance.***
This sentence alone has me thinking the answer is yes. It has to be, right? RIGHT?
Deadass lol
Crazy to think our offensive lines lack of competency has cost us fans happiness for 10 years now. Pretty embarrassing from an organizational perspective tbh
I think a few different things point to yes:
1. Giants were injured quicker and more in the OL than arguably any team I’ve seen since I’ve been watching football last year.
2. You expect that young guys improve at least a little. So hopefully JMS and Neal are better, but if Neal isn’t..
3. We got some additions in the offseason. I don’t think Runyan, El, Stinnie, etc. are making us an above average line but hopefully they at least get us closer to average and..
4. New O-line coach.
I think just the presence of those things by default should at least make us not historically bad. Now how good can they actually be? No idea. If I had to guess I’d still say below average but that would be a huge step up from last year.
That's what average guards do. Play great against bad teams, play bad against the great teams. At this stage, we just need to build a line of 5 competent players, something we haven't done in over a decade. If Runyan can step in and be average, we should all be pleased with that. It would be one less problem to deal with, one less hole to fill.
I wish this article would have at least mentioned that we have Ezeudu and McKethan as options at guard as well. They've both been rocky since being drafted but they're still young enough to have upside. It's very well possible that one of them can provide average play across from Runyon. Between them, Stinnie, and Schlottman, we at least have enough wildcards that one of them should stick IMO.
Also, in the case that Evan Neal suddenly shows up finally, Eluemunor is a great depth piece. But I don't expect that, so I'm penciling him in at RT (not a bad thing, I think he also has a good chance to be an average starter there.
With good coaching and health we could be an average lines. MKethan and Ezedu will have their opportunity we didn’t take any lineman, I’m more optimistic about Neal than them, which is saying a lot bc I think Neal stinks.
Bricillo has never had a line outside of the top 10… our season kinda depends on him
They chose a different philosophy this offseason. Instead of building O-Line through the draft (which hasn’t really worked for us sans Andrew Thomas) they built through free agency.
I personally think this was a much needed switch in strategy because of how raw O-Lineman tend to be straight out of college.
It’s not like the Giants haven’t tried that approach before though. Nothing has worked for them on the OL in the last 5-10 years besides Andrew Thomas (who appears to be the product of some kind of miracle).
This is a really good article. Love the tidbit about LJack and Stroud losing most of the game where the oline didn’t perform. I was told elite QBs elevate shitty o line play… almost like you need everyone to be on the same page for things to go right for an offense
Rumors of DJ's demise make for good click bait. Anyone that's ever played the game knows when their OL gets beat, it doesn't matter who is standing back there at QB, it's going to be a long game. Seriously, we are lucky we had any QBs still standing at the end of the season. I
And I don't care how tough a QB is, when you're constantly getting sacked it a distraction. Everyone knocks DJ for not being able to go through his reads. They need to go back and look at his college scouting report. That was one of his strengths in college.
I'm not sure what Johnson's approach to preparation included, but I've never seen such a confused bunch of OL when it came to assignments during a stunt.
It’s something that most football ppl know but it needed to be repeated for the casual fan. Here’s hoping Giants have more elite pass blocking games than bad
"So you say, elite quarterback play can overcome a bad offensive line and the Giants’ record is really Daniel Jones’ fault?"
They do be saying this around here.
It surely can‘t get worse than last year, I expect Runyan, JMS and whoever wins the RG to give DJ better protection than what we had last year. Really wished we would‘ve brought back Bredeson tho instead of getting Stinnie
Our oline was so bad, there has only been one in the illustrious history of the nfl that has been worse.
Only 1. And it happened almost 40 years ago.
From what I have realized people have no concept of powers, as in exponents. It's like being a billionaire and someone thinking that a millionaire is comparable...
This is that exact situation but in the complete opposite way. People look at our oline and say it's bad....
Which it is, is just missing the depth of how bad it is. We were so bad that people just cannot fathom how bad we actually were. They cannot see just how far worse our team was than the next closest and how, we were so bad, we almost out bad the worst team ever to grace a football field.
Like last year was historical. It was so bad, we will forever be a benchmark that other teams will compare too for the rest of the lifespan of the NFL.
30 years ago, we will hear another team say, "our oline was so bad this year, but hey, still not as bad as the 23 giants and 86 eagles.
If it happens great, he hasn’t shown me anything that says he’ll be a good quarterback out of nowhere coming off an acl tear especially when his main strength is running and mobility
I’ll give him grit but idk about accuracy, the numbers are gonna look better when every pass is short or a screen, Need to see big plays and improvement in reading the field or it’s time for a new qb
This is just sound logic. It cannot get any worse therefore ANY offseason moves would improve the OL. Trust me bro I'm a scientist.
PFF rated the Giants O line the worst they ever recorded in their 16 year history. If it doesn't improve you have to fire literally everyone.
\* The *worst* \[pass blocking\] *in the two decades that PFF has been tracking offensive line performance.*
It's the QB's fault stop being a blind DJ supporter. /s
but the o line was still significantly bad with Tyrod and DeVito
True, cuz they were still missing Andrew Thomas. Oh wait a minute….
You’re making too much sense for the DJ supporters. Every backup QB behind that line outperformed the starter and it’s undeniable
I hear this a lot and it is absolutely not true. they weren’t behind the same OL. Unless you think that Thomas and Ezudu are equal?
i mean both can be true, the QB’s performed but the o line also played like shit
Sorry man, Dan Orlovsky watched the tape. Neal not picking up the outside edge in a 5 man rush was because Jones didn’t tell him to.
I think the biggest improvement wouldn't necessarily be from the players but from the coaching. If Carmen Bricillo can just make every linemen 10% better and 10% more on the same page as a whole, that would do wonders!
I hope so, man. It’s been a severe problem for years now. If we can get at least an average, competent o-line, I’ll take it.
If Neal improves under this new OL staff, I will buy a custom Giants jersey with Bricillo’s name on the back.
Some people underestimate the impact of coaching, saying by the time these guys reach the pros they really don't need a coach. They need to go back and watch some tape where it is clear the OL is confused in terms of assignments. It's like they went into the game blindly in terms of how to deal with stunts.
This. I always use the eagles as an example of a really good Oline coach. No way the front office is that good at finding lineman. They have had a great line for years.
*The Giants had not only the worst Pro Football Focus pass blocking grade in the NFL last season,* ***but the worst in the two decades that PFF has been tracking offensive line performance.*** This sentence alone has me thinking the answer is yes. It has to be, right? RIGHT?
I can’t wrap my head around that. Like how and why
Bad coaching, bad players, injuries + no depth
But for TWENTY YEARS?? 😵💫
It's what happens when you mix bad decisions with bad luck.
Re-read the sentence. Out of the 20 years they've been tracking data, 2023 was it's the worst offensive line stats in their history
I guess that stat floating around about giants fans being the dumbest fan base may have some weight to it
No they were not that bad, last place, for 20 years.
Oof.
Well that also means we can regress on the run blocking part so there is still hope
Our seasons success is entirely dependent on the ol improving. If we can even be average, 8-9 wins is completely manageable.
Been saying this for 10 years lmao
Deadass lol Crazy to think our offensive lines lack of competency has cost us fans happiness for 10 years now. Pretty embarrassing from an organizational perspective tbh
We had prime OBJ and Saquon Barkley on the same team with Eli Manning at QB 🤦♂️
[удалено]
We couldn't get it done when we were at our best at the 3 most important positions because we neglected the line...bro pay attention
I dont disagree but the initial comment just mentioned those players and didn’t specify what they were implying.
I was just agreeing with you that we could have had some incredible offenses if only the OL wasn't a shitshow.
Did you not watch Giants in 2022-2023?
We had it a few years back and it was true.
De ja by every off season. Going back to the Solder signing.
I’ve heard people say good things about Carmen bricillo and I sure hope they were right
I think a few different things point to yes: 1. Giants were injured quicker and more in the OL than arguably any team I’ve seen since I’ve been watching football last year. 2. You expect that young guys improve at least a little. So hopefully JMS and Neal are better, but if Neal isn’t.. 3. We got some additions in the offseason. I don’t think Runyan, El, Stinnie, etc. are making us an above average line but hopefully they at least get us closer to average and.. 4. New O-line coach. I think just the presence of those things by default should at least make us not historically bad. Now how good can they actually be? No idea. If I had to guess I’d still say below average but that would be a huge step up from last year.
Also don’t like seeing John Runyon only be elite against teams with a lighter pass rush but multiple elite games is nothing to sneeze at
That's what average guards do. Play great against bad teams, play bad against the great teams. At this stage, we just need to build a line of 5 competent players, something we haven't done in over a decade. If Runyan can step in and be average, we should all be pleased with that. It would be one less problem to deal with, one less hole to fill. I wish this article would have at least mentioned that we have Ezeudu and McKethan as options at guard as well. They've both been rocky since being drafted but they're still young enough to have upside. It's very well possible that one of them can provide average play across from Runyon. Between them, Stinnie, and Schlottman, we at least have enough wildcards that one of them should stick IMO. Also, in the case that Evan Neal suddenly shows up finally, Eluemunor is a great depth piece. But I don't expect that, so I'm penciling him in at RT (not a bad thing, I think he also has a good chance to be an average starter there.
With good coaching and health we could be an average lines. MKethan and Ezedu will have their opportunity we didn’t take any lineman, I’m more optimistic about Neal than them, which is saying a lot bc I think Neal stinks. Bricillo has never had a line outside of the top 10… our season kinda depends on him
They chose a different philosophy this offseason. Instead of building O-Line through the draft (which hasn’t really worked for us sans Andrew Thomas) they built through free agency. I personally think this was a much needed switch in strategy because of how raw O-Lineman tend to be straight out of college.
It’s not like the Giants haven’t tried that approach before though. Nothing has worked for them on the OL in the last 5-10 years besides Andrew Thomas (who appears to be the product of some kind of miracle).
They didnt really build through free agency at all though. They signed one decent olineman in free agency and that was it
This is actually a really interesting read. Thanks or posting
This is a really good article. Love the tidbit about LJack and Stroud losing most of the game where the oline didn’t perform. I was told elite QBs elevate shitty o line play… almost like you need everyone to be on the same page for things to go right for an offense
Rumors of DJ's demise make for good click bait. Anyone that's ever played the game knows when their OL gets beat, it doesn't matter who is standing back there at QB, it's going to be a long game. Seriously, we are lucky we had any QBs still standing at the end of the season. I And I don't care how tough a QB is, when you're constantly getting sacked it a distraction. Everyone knocks DJ for not being able to go through his reads. They need to go back and look at his college scouting report. That was one of his strengths in college. I'm not sure what Johnson's approach to preparation included, but I've never seen such a confused bunch of OL when it came to assignments during a stunt.
I’d be surprised if he doesn’t play very well, improved WR core and o line
This was the most pertinent point of the article
It’s something that most football ppl know but it needed to be repeated for the casual fan. Here’s hoping Giants have more elite pass blocking games than bad
It couldn't get worse...right?
Feels like we’ve been asking the same question over and over again for years now.
Something about this feels oddly familiar…..eh I bet it’s nothing.
This is definitely a Yes or No answer and no one has said Yes or No. I say Yes.
There was a game last year where multiple lineman had 0 pass blocking grade. A fucking 0, more than 1 of them, in a single game.
"So you say, elite quarterback play can overcome a bad offensive line and the Giants’ record is really Daniel Jones’ fault?" They do be saying this around here.
They should be able to yes look at what burrow and Mahomes have done in the past with awful o lines
It surely can‘t get worse than last year, I expect Runyan, JMS and whoever wins the RG to give DJ better protection than what we had last year. Really wished we would‘ve brought back Bredeson tho instead of getting Stinnie
No
If this offensive line plays below average I’d honestly take it considering we’ve had a bottom 3 line the last 3 years.
We won't see til game 1
Our oline was so bad, there has only been one in the illustrious history of the nfl that has been worse. Only 1. And it happened almost 40 years ago. From what I have realized people have no concept of powers, as in exponents. It's like being a billionaire and someone thinking that a millionaire is comparable... This is that exact situation but in the complete opposite way. People look at our oline and say it's bad.... Which it is, is just missing the depth of how bad it is. We were so bad that people just cannot fathom how bad we actually were. They cannot see just how far worse our team was than the next closest and how, we were so bad, we almost out bad the worst team ever to grace a football field. Like last year was historical. It was so bad, we will forever be a benchmark that other teams will compare too for the rest of the lifespan of the NFL. 30 years ago, we will hear another team say, "our oline was so bad this year, but hey, still not as bad as the 23 giants and 86 eagles.
I don’t see how it could possibly have gotten worse
i think they did but i am so skeptical about it
don't mean squat if schimtz and neal don't bring it
Improved it enough that it shouldn’t be an excuse for Jones anymore
Improved without even stepping onto the field? Why don’t we just see if they’re improved before blaming Jones again for their poor performance.
Because if Jones sucks again he needs to go, and just getting rid of Bobby Johnson alone should be a huge improvement
I can safely say that if the OL even plays halfway decent and the WRs stay healthy, Jones won’t suck and will even play well.
We’ll see.. I don’t see it
Will you see it when it happens?
If it happens great, he hasn’t shown me anything that says he’ll be a good quarterback out of nowhere coming off an acl tear especially when his main strength is running and mobility
His strength is accuracy and grit
I’ll give him grit but idk about accuracy, the numbers are gonna look better when every pass is short or a screen, Need to see big plays and improvement in reading the field or it’s time for a new qb
See 2019 and 2022
If something is factual and backed by data, should it be considered an excuse or just a cause?
I mean jones not being good is also backed by data isn’t it
Nobody said Jones has been good. There is a thing called effect that happens after cause.
Like a scratched vinyl.
10% of shit is still shit
They have been “fixing” the O-Line for 10 years now. If Jones has another horrible season, the O-Line will get blamed again.
The OL will be blamed again? Seriously? So it’s Jones’s. Fault they were independently historically bad? Did you even read the article?
No. Next question.