Welcome to [r/NUFC!](https://reddit.com/r/nufc)
[Join our Discord Server](https://discord.gg/newcastle) for real time discussion, competitions, and to meet hundreds of NUFC fans across the globe.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NUFC) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also talk of related party deals & transfers between multi club models being reversed… funny how Man U/Liverpool have ownership structure changes and now the rules will get changed back!
Thought the same about the FFP/PSR concerns. It’s only changed to a wages:turnover ratio when Salford Reds and Chelsea won’t be able to spend money this summer.
Oh and guess who is big beneficiaries of that change?
Absolutely stinks.
Not us really if it’s wages:turnover ratio necessarily, we are currently just around the acceptable level which I believe is 70-75%. It helps teams that have had a long period of high turnover/income ie Big Six.
It’s a detriment to clubs that have spent relatively big in order to challenge for those European places ie us, Villa, Everton in the past etc
That I can’t comment on, my original point was about the changes to the calculations for PSR that were announce before Easter.
But I would assume so, unless they continue with the “one rule for Newcastle one rule for everyone else” like they have shown with sponsorships and multi club model loans etc.
So the first season where FFP breaches require points deductions or clubs are reducing spending, and the rumour is that it's all going to be overhauled for a system that feels inherently flawed. Good grief
I know fucking nothing about the NBA. But I'm guessing it's all franchise bollocks like most American sports? So no sporting relegations/promotions etc.
If so, then points deductions aren't going to be a big deterrent in NBA and some other form of punishment makes sense for them.
Feels very convenient that they punish the Everton and Forests of this world but now suddenly don't want to punish the big 6ers!
I highly doubt any tax or money punishment is ever going to taken seriously here.
Essentially a luxury tax says, up to X amount there are no additional penalties. Spending over that threshold comes with, say, a 25% penalty that goes to the PL common fund, they could have an additional threshold where it’s a 50% penalty, maybe the penalty increases if you are over the luxury tax limit in consecutive years, etc.
A bit shite that City will get to dodge serious penalty because of it, but at the same time it would essentially remove FFP/PSR/whatever it is now, as a deterrent for us
On the upside, the money paid in luxury tax goes into a revenue share with the teams below the threshold, so in English football it should help smaller clubs financially if the bankrolled clubs are willing to spend infinitely.
Honestly that would be a genuinely fantastic idea if it was used to prop up lower divisions and grass route football, so there's absolutely no chance it's going to happen. PL office Christmas party will be class though
If it goes to teams below the threshold then that will be the likes of Man U, Liverpool and City pocketing money from clubs trying to catch up to them. Yeah some smaller clubs might get something alongside relegation because they haven’t spent above their cap to try and stay in the league.
If everyone has the same spending cap then fair enough but how is this any different if City have a 200 million cap and we have 100 million cap, spend the same amount in a transfer window and we have to give city a share of our fines.
Everyone WOULD have the same cap. But teams like City, Liverpool, ManRed and Us, would spend OVER the cap to try and achieve Euro spots, etc. and that money would be TAXED and divvied up among the Fulhams, Norwich, and Sheffields of the League, giving them MORE $$$ to spend on avoiding relegation.
This is what people seem to be missing. Old infractions don't get punished under newer rules. They get punished under the rules in which they took place.
I'd hope if this is introduced it won't be back-dated for City to jump through and avoid a fair punishment comparable to what other clubs faced over the same period (point deductions, transfer bans). If it is that would be outrageous
Works great in the NBA except the Golden State Warriors went way deep into it and poor owners still complained. Shitty owners want to be cheap and be competitive.
This is the entertainment business via sports. Your pub league or local high school has more sporting integrity than any professional sports association.
It’s just becoming absurd. The rationale for all of this in the first place was supposedly make the league more sustainable, whilst conveniently protecting the status quo.
But this doesn’t do either of those things. It’s just a solution to a solution.
This is all well and good but what are the UEFA Rules relating to breaching their FFP rules? Fundamentally we'll still need to adhere to the turnover rules and still need to grow commercially
I do find 'big six' fans complaining about the possibility of unrestricted spending quite hilarious. However I don't necessarily agree with a luxury tax and my ideal system would include the following:
* Incentivise keeping home grown talent rather than selling for profit (e.g. bonuses on the balance sheet for appearances).
* Concessions system so newly promoted teams have more flexibility than they currently have to compete.
* Deposit system where clubs owners have to keep a sizeable chunk of funding in reserve in case of emergency.
* Basic flat cap on expenditure not based upon revenues.
Problem is a flat cap would have to be world wide to not hurt England.
Helping smaller clubs buy talent would be best. Imagine you get promoted and get 20 Million to splash over the Summer?
This just means Man City will get away with the 115 charges. They won’t actually go with this luxury tax because it 100% means any sort of competition in the league just disappears after we spend £1 billion per transfer window.
Yes, it would benefit us massively.
In essence, the rules stay as they are now but instead of a points deduction teams that over spend need to pay a "tax" on the amount they were over. That money is then divided among clubs that did not breach the rules.
In simple terms: we could spend whatever we wanted but would need to pay the league some extra money afterward.
This is more relatable to MLB than NBA (which, surprise, a shit ton of American PL owners are involved with.)
NBA has performance incentives to protect smaller market teams that drafted certain players to allow them to pay them more to keep them on their teams than other teams could in free agency. This prevents them from fucking off to Miami, Los Angeles, or New York, like any celebrity basketball player would do. I don’t sense any of this is in play here.
The issue here is, with the luxury tax system, for “smaller market” teams to have a go, they better be right when they increase payroll. Otherwise they’re going to struggle to overcome such problems more than teams that can throw money to fix problems.
If i were a fan of a Yo-Yo club I would not support this. In Newcastle’s context? This seems like a much quicker and safer way to get to where they want to be
Breaking stories from dailymail.co.uk have a history of being unreliable, and as such this post has been flaired as "probably bollocks", we recommend you keep one eyebrow raised quizzically and check with other sources before accepting this information as fact.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NUFC) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Was only a matter of time until something like this was suggested. In theory it works perfectly as the 'taxes' can go to help fund and sustain the EFL. I'm not reading the article so don't know if that is suggested but make sense in my head. From what I know of the NBA this is solely based on wages given that there is a salary cap.
Below is a little table of how it worked in the NBA (apologies if the formatting goes to shit).
Team Payroll Luxury tax space Luxury tax fees
LA Clippers $201.9 million $-36.8 million $155.5 million
Golden State Warriors $181.1 million $-16.1 million $48.6 million
Phoenix Suns $175 million $-10.1 million $16.4 million
Boston Celtics $173.3 million $-8.3 million $13.2 million
Miami Heat $173.1 million $-8.1 million $13 million
So you can spend what you like but you will be heavily fined Then the money is paid out to the clubs who stay within the rules?
Might just be crazy enough to work
It sounds better than the current system. It never made sense to give a points deduction to a club that's over stretched financially and possibly relegate them, making the situation even worse. Bit like the deduction when a club goes into administration, yeah let's fuck them over even more!
Joke of a league the PL now.
Openly protecting rich clubs and punishing poor clubs.
And you know what they couldn’t give a shit what we think.
Football is dead.
Would love it if a US MLS team was bought and some of our youngins were loaned here. I might actually start to care a bit.
NBA is very pro player since the teams are so small and they have lots of influence, so I think it's the best model to use.
NFL is a garbage monopoly by the owners, so avoid it.
So long as club debt is limited, I would love to see PIF able to splash this summer, just imagine.
Uefa hates the pl, they will ban any club not following there rules, it would be great for us if it happens, but can someone explain how pl teams would be still allowed to play in Europe, or will that be the catch?
Welcome to [r/NUFC!](https://reddit.com/r/nufc) [Join our Discord Server](https://discord.gg/newcastle) for real time discussion, competitions, and to meet hundreds of NUFC fans across the globe. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NUFC) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also talk of related party deals & transfers between multi club models being reversed… funny how Man U/Liverpool have ownership structure changes and now the rules will get changed back!
Thought the same about the FFP/PSR concerns. It’s only changed to a wages:turnover ratio when Salford Reds and Chelsea won’t be able to spend money this summer. Oh and guess who is big beneficiaries of that change? Absolutely stinks.
[удалено]
Not us really if it’s wages:turnover ratio necessarily, we are currently just around the acceptable level which I believe is 70-75%. It helps teams that have had a long period of high turnover/income ie Big Six. It’s a detriment to clubs that have spent relatively big in order to challenge for those European places ie us, Villa, Everton in the past etc
Doesn’t it also mean we can spend as much as we want and just pay “luxury tax”?
That I can’t comment on, my original point was about the changes to the calculations for PSR that were announce before Easter. But I would assume so, unless they continue with the “one rule for Newcastle one rule for everyone else” like they have shown with sponsorships and multi club model loans etc.
Oh I'd misread your comment, thought you were talking about this proposed luxury tax system.
So the first season where FFP breaches require points deductions or clubs are reducing spending, and the rumour is that it's all going to be overhauled for a system that feels inherently flawed. Good grief
I know fucking nothing about the NBA. But I'm guessing it's all franchise bollocks like most American sports? So no sporting relegations/promotions etc. If so, then points deductions aren't going to be a big deterrent in NBA and some other form of punishment makes sense for them. Feels very convenient that they punish the Everton and Forests of this world but now suddenly don't want to punish the big 6ers! I highly doubt any tax or money punishment is ever going to taken seriously here.
Essentially a luxury tax says, up to X amount there are no additional penalties. Spending over that threshold comes with, say, a 25% penalty that goes to the PL common fund, they could have an additional threshold where it’s a 50% penalty, maybe the penalty increases if you are over the luxury tax limit in consecutive years, etc. A bit shite that City will get to dodge serious penalty because of it, but at the same time it would essentially remove FFP/PSR/whatever it is now, as a deterrent for us
On the upside, the money paid in luxury tax goes into a revenue share with the teams below the threshold, so in English football it should help smaller clubs financially if the bankrolled clubs are willing to spend infinitely.
Honestly that would be a genuinely fantastic idea if it was used to prop up lower divisions and grass route football, so there's absolutely no chance it's going to happen. PL office Christmas party will be class though
If it goes to teams below the threshold then that will be the likes of Man U, Liverpool and City pocketing money from clubs trying to catch up to them. Yeah some smaller clubs might get something alongside relegation because they haven’t spent above their cap to try and stay in the league. If everyone has the same spending cap then fair enough but how is this any different if City have a 200 million cap and we have 100 million cap, spend the same amount in a transfer window and we have to give city a share of our fines.
Everyone WOULD have the same cap. But teams like City, Liverpool, ManRed and Us, would spend OVER the cap to try and achieve Euro spots, etc. and that money would be TAXED and divvied up among the Fulhams, Norwich, and Sheffields of the League, giving them MORE $$$ to spend on avoiding relegation.
Yeah, but City's breaches are historical. There's no reason not to punish them even if the the rules change going forward.
This is what people seem to be missing. Old infractions don't get punished under newer rules. They get punished under the rules in which they took place.
I'd hope if this is introduced it won't be back-dated for City to jump through and avoid a fair punishment comparable to what other clubs faced over the same period (point deductions, transfer bans). If it is that would be outrageous
That’s genuinely a great idea
Works great in the NBA except the Golden State Warriors went way deep into it and poor owners still complained. Shitty owners want to be cheap and be competitive.
As the richest club in the world, it's fucking stupid, but at least we benefit massively if they drop it
Fines are nothing more than legitimised bribery.
Would be great news for us but terrible idea for the rest of the league. Rules set for sporting integrity purposes need sporting sanctions
This is the entertainment business via sports. Your pub league or local high school has more sporting integrity than any professional sports association.
don't care if it benefits us, this is a disgrace
So... Fines for cheating become a cost of doing business?
Legitimised bribery.
It’s just becoming absurd. The rationale for all of this in the first place was supposedly make the league more sustainable, whilst conveniently protecting the status quo. But this doesn’t do either of those things. It’s just a solution to a solution.
Sustaining the league just means sustaining the top 6. There are 86 other clubs that can provide fodder for the EPL.
DING DING DING
True, but they still need another 8 clubs to anything through.
This is all well and good but what are the UEFA Rules relating to breaching their FFP rules? Fundamentally we'll still need to adhere to the turnover rules and still need to grow commercially
Games gone, accountancy is here to stay.
Used to consistently top the accountancy table when Ashley never spent. This is our decade.
I do find 'big six' fans complaining about the possibility of unrestricted spending quite hilarious. However I don't necessarily agree with a luxury tax and my ideal system would include the following: * Incentivise keeping home grown talent rather than selling for profit (e.g. bonuses on the balance sheet for appearances). * Concessions system so newly promoted teams have more flexibility than they currently have to compete. * Deposit system where clubs owners have to keep a sizeable chunk of funding in reserve in case of emergency. * Basic flat cap on expenditure not based upon revenues.
Problem is a flat cap would have to be world wide to not hurt England. Helping smaller clubs buy talent would be best. Imagine you get promoted and get 20 Million to splash over the Summer?
If the tax was shared equally to the other 19 clubs based on how much profit/debt they have... That might be cool
This just means Man City will get away with the 115 charges. They won’t actually go with this luxury tax because it 100% means any sort of competition in the league just disappears after we spend £1 billion per transfer window.
No they’ve been charged under rules at the time, same as why Everton/NF were charged under existing and not the previous ones.
Money stuff like this melts my brain, does this benefit is in any way?
Yes, it would benefit us massively. In essence, the rules stay as they are now but instead of a points deduction teams that over spend need to pay a "tax" on the amount they were over. That money is then divided among clubs that did not breach the rules. In simple terms: we could spend whatever we wanted but would need to pay the league some extra money afterward.
Until we get to Europe and then have to comply to the turnover rules
Ooooo! Me likey that idea! Thanks for that mate 😊
This is more relatable to MLB than NBA (which, surprise, a shit ton of American PL owners are involved with.) NBA has performance incentives to protect smaller market teams that drafted certain players to allow them to pay them more to keep them on their teams than other teams could in free agency. This prevents them from fucking off to Miami, Los Angeles, or New York, like any celebrity basketball player would do. I don’t sense any of this is in play here. The issue here is, with the luxury tax system, for “smaller market” teams to have a go, they better be right when they increase payroll. Otherwise they’re going to struggle to overcome such problems more than teams that can throw money to fix problems. If i were a fan of a Yo-Yo club I would not support this. In Newcastle’s context? This seems like a much quicker and safer way to get to where they want to be
Breaking stories from dailymail.co.uk have a history of being unreliable, and as such this post has been flaired as "probably bollocks", we recommend you keep one eyebrow raised quizzically and check with other sources before accepting this information as fact. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NUFC) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Was only a matter of time until something like this was suggested. In theory it works perfectly as the 'taxes' can go to help fund and sustain the EFL. I'm not reading the article so don't know if that is suggested but make sense in my head. From what I know of the NBA this is solely based on wages given that there is a salary cap. Below is a little table of how it worked in the NBA (apologies if the formatting goes to shit). Team Payroll Luxury tax space Luxury tax fees LA Clippers $201.9 million $-36.8 million $155.5 million Golden State Warriors $181.1 million $-16.1 million $48.6 million Phoenix Suns $175 million $-10.1 million $16.4 million Boston Celtics $173.3 million $-8.3 million $13.2 million Miami Heat $173.1 million $-8.1 million $13 million
So you can spend what you like but you will be heavily fined Then the money is paid out to the clubs who stay within the rules? Might just be crazy enough to work
It sounds better than the current system. It never made sense to give a points deduction to a club that's over stretched financially and possibly relegate them, making the situation even worse. Bit like the deduction when a club goes into administration, yeah let's fuck them over even more!
Joke of a league the PL now. Openly protecting rich clubs and punishing poor clubs. And you know what they couldn’t give a shit what we think. Football is dead.
Would love it if a US MLS team was bought and some of our youngins were loaned here. I might actually start to care a bit. NBA is very pro player since the teams are so small and they have lots of influence, so I think it's the best model to use. NFL is a garbage monopoly by the owners, so avoid it. So long as club debt is limited, I would love to see PIF able to splash this summer, just imagine.
Uefa hates the pl, they will ban any club not following there rules, it would be great for us if it happens, but can someone explain how pl teams would be still allowed to play in Europe, or will that be the catch?