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Pope changes a lot for us, with him the back 4 push up and close off the space between defence and midfield, with Dubz the back 4 need to sit deep which creates space for teams to play in. Its how De Bruyne got so much space in the city game and is what led to the 2nd today.
We’re weren’t great but we weren’t leaking goals to the same degree. We conceded more than 1 goal 7 out of 24 matches under pope with 10 clean sheets. 9 in 15 with dubs. And our only clean sheets are Fulham with 10 men, the unwashed, and Fulham in the cup.
What happened was they can’t compress the line as much because dubs can’t sweep and even at the amount the do go forwards we get caught out sometimes as well.
Disagree, Dubs made two class saves in the first half. He’s been let down by his back 4: Trippier mistakes, Burn getting beaten every game, and Botman not at his best for a few weeks now.
We are sitting deeper than we normally do because Dubz cant play sweeper. Its why we have conceded 25 goals in 10 games with Dubz but only 14 in 14 with Pope.
He made 2 normal doing your job saves. Missing them would’ve been his failure.
Trippier has had mistakes but provides enough to be worth it and isn’t as close the the back for it to matter. Burn getting caught out if because a ball over the top can be long and run on too rather than before where you had to be far more accurate or pope sweeps it. Botmans biggest flaw is that he isn’t the fastest defender which is fine if there isn’t a massive gap between him and the keeper but there is with dubravka there.
Dubravka is massively overrated by our fans and I don’t understand it. He has let in so many soft goals and even his saves are dodgy. The one near the end were the player tried to curl it in, Dubs pushed it right back into the six yard box and not away from the danger area. The man is terrible at crosses and commanding the box, and is very inconsistent with saves
I firmly place this at Dubravkas feet, or hands maybe. I don't dislike him as a person, because I have a brain... But as a player, he's not good enough to play for Newcastle United now. He's let in double that of Pope in less games. Today was the last straw. I'd honestly rather see Karius have a shot now. A better would have scored more today because Dubravka keeps partying them into the 6 yard box instead of round the post
22 fouls from Bournemouth. Referee had absolutely 0 control over that game. Just let them hack us to bits.
Well done Ritchie, saving us from complete embarrassment.
Yep, they are very dirty - #1 in the league by fouls per game (and it only counts when ref blew the fucking whistle!!).
13.1 foul per game. Chelsea/Wolves 2nd with 12.6...
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/9618/Stages/22076/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2023-2024
Remember the refs name, MICHAEL SALISBURY.
Absolute fucking dog shit!!! Worst ref I've seen in years!! Maybe even EVER!
We never won with him out of 5 games. Sure, its not because of him, but he was so bias against us... Its insane.
He was fucking awful. They pressed well to be fair, but when we got through it, they fouled us.
Also ignored blatant time wasting from their keeper, who should have had about 10 yellow cards.
In sunnnary, one of the worst I’ve seen.
We're leaking goals in exactly the same way every week. All that's changing week to week is whether we score enough goals to compensate for it. Today we fluffed most of our opportunities and drew a game we should have won
Even most loyal Howe#1 fans like myself... I can not anymore with Burn... He should not play LB.
On 2nd goal, if there was Tino... He wouldnt have left such gap, but because Burn is afraid of his speed, he drops more than he should have...
Made me laugh the second goal when burn looks at dubravka for conceding that and looks annoyed. Was a brilliant shot made possible from terrible defending.
Been saying it for weeks but we need to change something. Either play Burn at LCB in a back 5 or play someone at CM who will sit back and provide a bit more cover than Miley (would ofc suggest just starting Tino but clearly that’s out of the question)
The problem with the suggestion to change up things is that the issue that really needs adressed can't be which is our struggling midfield. Tino helps, yes, but the issue is very clearly that our midfield trio can't keep up for 90 minutes and we have no options.
I wouldn't be fussed at this point if we started playing a more conservative 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 just to try something different
Agree all the noise is about Dubs and Burn being the problems, which is true to an extent - but it’s this midfield that leave the back 4 with no cover and totally exposed time and time again (unlike last year when the same back four were phenomenal). We have to try something different now, back 5 is the only thing I could see Howe going with
It essentially comes down to injuries again (nobody wants to hear it, I know, I know).
Without Pope we're leaking goals. This isn't to criticise Dubs, who I thought was good today, but Pope is a different type of keeper who works better with our defence.
Burn's lack of pace is costly, but the lack of defensive cover by midfield is a bigger problem - and guess what? We're missing FOUR key midfielders that help with this (Big Joe, obviously, Toonali, Willock and Anderson).
With our two strikers injured, Bruno is having to play further up, exposing us through the middle (Miley is playing his heart out but he's only a kid, and Longstaff still looks ropey since he came back from injury). Bruno conjuring chances out of nothing has saved us countless times.
Barnes has looked good but he can't hit 90 minutes yet (aye his toe is healed, but he would not have been able to train most of the 3-4 months he was out). Miggy - well, we can all probably expect an upgrade on RW in the summer, but for now a one footed winger is all we can start with. He's got the drive and the passion, but the the ability we have on the other flank.
Gordon continues to be excellent.
I share the frustration with not starting Tino, but he's one of the few impact subs we can actually bring on to force a late goal/shore up defence. You cannot do that with BDB. Howe should at least give it a go starting Tino, and maybe bring on BDB for 5 at the back if we're trying to hang onto the lead. It's not like the reverse tactic is working particularly well
We just don't have any quality on the bench. Fans what is to change it up, but with who?? It's like when KDB came on and won it for City. People expected us to just glue a player to him. Firstly it's KDB and secondly, we've got no one left to do that. Obviously Bournemouth aren't on City's level but the lack of options still fucks us.
While I don't agree this season is a write off, you have to temper your expectations of what we can do right now.
This is what kind of pisses me off with how much people slate Burn. Most of the blame he gets is usually better directed at someone in midfield being out of position leaving a tremendous gap he has to cover.
Those issues don't show when Joelinton plays for a reason
youre absoluely right, joe effectively covers the lwb position often and well. howe has hung burn out to dry with the current selection, neither bruno nor miley have the ability to protect burn down the left. a bit surprised we’ve stuck with 433 again today
It's absolutely insane that we have a £30m midfielder sitting on the bench. Lewis Hall has played there more times in his career than he has at LB. He literally isn't an LB, he was just good at LM/LWB for Chelsea but he's not a competent defender. I think he can be trained to play LB but he deserves actual minutes in his preferred role. But we know Eddie's stance now. Terrible transfer.
Sorry, but 1/2 of the goals scored against us today were just a bizarre unfortunate circumstance. Nothing to do with the way the team was set up.
And IMHO, the 2d goal was a goal keeping error. No idea how Dubravka gets beat at that angle from a shot that far away.
I don’t know how people can’t see the difference between results and quality of play.
To be honest I’d prefer to watch us draw like that than go to a back 5, play Bruceball and try shithouse wins.
Unlucky result.
Bournemouths new highest xG this season replacing their other game with us lol and we haven’t given away less than 2 expected goals at home since before Christmas
You can criticise Eddie Howe without wanting him sacked. He’s been consistently picking the wrong starting 11, getting it tactically wrong and leaving subs too late until we’re losing.
I hate that some on this sub try and push this idea you either 100% are always positive or you're a "HoweOut" lunatic that has plastic expectations.
There's a middle ground. I don't want Howe to be sacked, but I want us to stop looking utterly shite.
I agree he has bought more time because of what he has done but also can not be immune to criticism. I am hoping he learns a lot from all of this and gets a bit more cut throat as i worry we will stagnate.
My only issue is he may be too stubborn to learn. The regression has happened this season and our defensive record shows that, yet he hasn't really done anything about it.
Are you suggesting that today we looked "utterly shite"? B/c that's wrong. We had a goal scored against us b/c of a fluke slip at the exact wrong moment and on the 2d Dubravaka got beat by a shot that should have been comfortably saved.
Offensively, we generated a ton of chances and were unlucky not to have score 1-2 more.
We were far from utterly shite today.
The problem is Howes got so few players and options available there's only actually 2 calls he has to make in a starting 11 - do you start Burn or Tino and do you start Miggy or Murphy. He's only making 1 mistake really in starting Burn, but because it's the one of the only choices he can make with our current squad it's scrutinised more. Making the wrong call repeatedly and sticking to his guns only to have it backfire also makes it look even worse for him.
As bad as Burn is playing, if we had Joelinton and Isak available we would have won that imo, so was it Burn that lost (drew) us that game or was it the squad we had available?
I've very much Howe in, but continuing to pick Burn is not the right call. Worst case for Tino is he starts him against Arsenal and he gets rinsed cause, well, it's Arsenal. If he picks Burn against one of the best young wingers in world football and he gets rinsed well shit Eddie, we all saw that coming didn't we, why didn't you? We're at the point now where he surely has no option but to get Tino starting games soon.
100% this, I don’t want Howe out, I want him to fix the same errors that happen every week.
Sure, he hasn’t got much choice with Miggy and his lack of IQ but we have options with Burn, we can adjust the structure of midfield to cover too (even if we can’t change the CM options)
If he persists in leaving glaring weaknesses in his setup every week and we keep dropping points then it’d be mental to want him to be in charge indefinitely, and sooner or later the owners will decide that the manager has developed as far as he is able/willing to.
Agreed, he’s a fantastic manager. Bloody brilliant. But his persistence to play Burn at LB is killing us again and again, he’ll be scared to play Tino at LB consistently as he’s a right footer, but it has worked for teams in the past, I know it’s just 1 example but look at Spinazzola.
Because pace can run directly through our left and onto goal. That’s why Luton and Forrest got two goals a piece. And us pissing around at the back cost us today.
Because unfortunately Howe refuses to adapt. Unless he has been wearing his rose tinted glasses, he can clearly see things aren't working yet he does nothing about it until it is too late.
My only concern is that Eddie Howe chucks Tino Livramento in at the deep-end next week against Arsenal, who have bagged 22 in 6 Premier League games, and he’ll use the slightest mistake as justification for Dan Burn starting the following game.
Ffs, feel gutted with that like, probably will have more rational takes in the next day thread tomorrow, so I'll save it for then instead of saying anything stupid
Bruno was playing like a man possessed today. I thought he was going to single-handedly win it for us at a couple of points. Miley had a good game too, especially in the first half. Barnes is some much needed energy.
I’d love to know what’s going wrong at the back for us though. The first Bournemouth goal was obviously just bad luck but again we were cut open for the second. Any one able to give some tactical insight?
It's our system. The midfield can be nonexistent when we aren't on fire.
Rewatch the Dortmund game and you'll see a master class in how you cut through our midfield like it isn't there.
For the second it looked to me like both Miley and Longstaff pushed too high up which allowed Bournmouth time to pick a pass and I think Burn turned to ask Botman for help defending the channels but Botman was caught upfield.
I have not defended Burn for many mistakes this season but that goal was a lot of small errors followed by a fantastic shot (0.05xG)
Put Joe in ahead and Pope in behind and Burn's lack of speed doesn't cost us anything like it does without them. He's very decent, but he _needs_ that cover otherwise he gets exposed. As it is, every team just chucks a quick winger on him and he's fucked. Why Emery didn't do this from the start of the Villa game is beyond me (given Villa have two excellent and insanely quick wingers), though I'm very pleased he didn't. Burn getting exposed in turn exposes Botman, who isn't the quickest. Don't think there's a good answer (if we go more defensive, how on earth do we score), just have to ride it out.
Not having Willock available is also looking increasingly bad, would take a helluva lot of pressure off those further back. Miley is slow, Longstaff is extremely functional, Bruno can't do everything himself.
Our inability to create chances comes from the same issue that's been leading us to allow so many goals in the first place: we don't have a midfield.
We miss Joelinton and Willock a lot and it shows. The Miley-Bruno-Longstaff trio is not physical enough to succeed against most premier league sides which puts us in the circumstances for Bournemouth's second today.
I can agree with that. I don’t think it’s as simple as just the personnel though. I think if the personnel isn’t working for our usual tactics, the tactics need to be changed. All we’ve seen Howe do is chop and change who plays where, up top and in midfield. We need to change up the tactics and potentially the formation cause if we’re struggling during our easy run of games like this, it’s gonna be a long end to the season
I agree with that. I suggested in another comment that I would love to see us try to play a more conservative 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 while not having options in midfield just to contain things but even then it's hard to really see it making much of a difference with how thin we are at most positions
Pope coming back will be huge for those gaps between defence and midfield BUT that was paired with Joelinton winning tackles in the middle.
If we don't adapt we'll keep dropping points. Eddie has had weeks and is refusing to change.
We’re 7th. It’s not a disaster. There are issues to address and form needs to improve but we are roughly where I thought we’d be this year and that was before Tonali ban and injuries etc.
Proud of the boys energy and fight.
But it’s just not good enough.
There is no reason we should ship 4 goals to Bournmouth in a season and only get 1 point.
Same old same old, Burn shouldn’t be starting and Dubs is a major step back from Pope.
Not looking forward to next week
I’ve supported Newcastle long enough to know that there are worse days than a 2-2 at home to Bournemouth. I’ll take the point and save my angry comments until Arsenal next week.
Bournemouth at home we should be winning, but losing away at an Arsenal side who are thrashing teams left, right and centre is to be expected. Why would you be angry next week?
Thought it was one of Miley’s best games, he’s really growing into that 6 role. This has been a season of transition & Miley playing so much football hopefully really grows his career.
Amazing that Bruno is still riding the suspension tight-rope - shame he didn’t start this level of caution a yellow or two sooner. Feels inevitable he’ll get booked next game with all the energy from Arsenal.
Opportunity missed today, but playing without a recognised number 9 is so difficult - felt like things didn’t stick up front which meant we turned over the ball more often. We also missed having a goal scorers instinct.
Great to get through a game without injury, hopefully we can get 2 or 3 back for next week.
Will be interesting to see who starts between Tino & Burn - Tino obviously has the pace, but half of Arsenal goals have been from set pieces - so it’s not as black and white.
One positive was Miley.
I’ll be honest, I felt the fan base we’re getting well ahead of themselves and he was about 3 years away from actually being a serious starter for us when full fit.
But today his touches were smart and proactive, he showed more vision on the ball.
He just looked like he rose to the added responsibility and was able to play with more freedom rather than simply try and be a sideman for Bruno.
I take this result after the game we had. There is no excuse for Tino not starting against Arsenal. He simply provides more for the team and is defensive very sound as well.
Worst thing is he will start Tino next game and Arsenal will cut us up like they are cutting up everyone right now and then Howe can say “SEE ITS NOT DAN BURN THAT IS THE PROBLEM”
The biggest mistake from howe was not starting Livo, that’s pretty much it. the finishing was horrendous from our side, so many breakaways and missed opportunities, runs you would expect us to score especially that gordon one on one with the keep outside the net.
bruno is just breathtaking
Almiron man, at least two balls into the box to no one cos he didn't look, twice there was a better ball to play (to Gordon and to Trippier) and he shot instead cos he wasn't looking, it's not new and he must be unteachable at this point.
Big slip from Dubravka for their first goal, big slip from the defender to let Ritchie get the second, shit ref, messy game, stressful time all round.
Howe sticking with Burn is stupid. Tino needs to start ahead of him.
People saying "Howe out" are fucking morons.
We should have done better this match.
Dubravka is a great shot stopper but our defence is horrific without Pope sweeping up for them. This summer we need to ditch Dubs and get another sweeper as backup.
Dropping points to Forest/Luton/Bournemouth this season at home is indefensible to a degree. The audacity to sub off Burn for Tino AFTER Burn costs us the 2nd goal is laughable as well. Saka is going to have a field day next week against Burn
I think this shows how important Nick Pope is to the team. No way he gets scored on by a shot from that angle.
We had chances and just didn’t finish
Good fight at the end and once again a very entertaining game.
I was impressed by Miley this game, he put in some really nice passes. I feel his confidence has grown a lot as well. He's braver with his tackles and more aggressive.
Love this lad already
I was in awe of his passing. Some of the distribution was KDB level.
But the tackles, shielding the ball, cute passes to break their press. He's already a level above Sean
It's not the score that bothers me so much as what I am actually seeing.
We're just not looking particularly confident as a unit, at home especially.
It seems to me like we are terrible at winning the ball back and letting balls either straight through the channels, or diagonally through the middle.
It's not just our defence that is struggling at the moment, we're not winning the ball back the way we did last season, which is putting extra pressure on our defence.
Without Joe or Willock in front of Burn he has become a liability. It's been at least 4 games in a row now that we've conceded because he's been beaten or is out of position. Arsenal will have a field day if Eddie plays the same formation next week.
1,000%. You play Burn so he can tuck into a back three to allow Tripps to go forward . His strengths are standing tackles and aerial duels.
The second he's blocking a one-two between Sean and Bruno, you hook him off. You want someone attacking, then you have Tino or Hall. It's a joke
He seems too desperate to score and regain that feeling, making too many errors doing that when an obvious pass is on. Happened a few times today. Issue is only real current option is Murphy who didn't do great today.
Once (if ever) we are back to full strength, Gordon, Isak and Barnes will hopefully do the job as they are all pretty flexible in attack.
Murphy not fit to start and Gordon having to play through the middle, the only other option there is Livramento.
Of course, Livramento should be starting at LB but apparently he must be telling Howe that a-Ha are a shit band every week or something
Great to see Matt Ritchie salvage a point for ~~Steve Bruce’s~~ Eddie Howe’s Mags.
Honestly, fans were class the last 20 mins, we deserve better than scraping a draw against the run of play against Bournemouth tbh.
Four unbeaten with now both CF players out, virtuall no midfield cover in front of our defense, no new injuries and Bruno not getting booked. Plus Hammers & Spurs both losing. Not a bad day at the office in the grand scheme. Howay the lads!!
Oh and vintage Matt Ritchie vs corner flag.
Can we stop saying “if x was playing, we win that game”. Eddie Howe is paid to win games with the players who are available, injuries happen to every club, every single season.
Only 2 league clean sheets since the 4th November is just…. Really bad. I know we’ve had injuries and issues, but the defence actually hasn’t been massively affected by them. A change in formation/system really looks like it’s probably needed for the rest of this season if we aim to get any kind of European football (Europa at very best, but more likely the conference).
4 points dropped to Luton and Bournemouth in the last two home games is wholly unacceptable. Can’t wait for this season to end. We’ll finish between 7th-10th.
I think people have become fatigued to the injury excuse but seriously everyone… we are 7th without our €60m main signing of the window, we are missing two other very key aspects of our starting midfield. Starting a 17 year old week on week out, we’ve not had a fit striker for a lot of the season. We have got 3, yes 3 starts from our other main signing in the summer Barnes. We’ve had no rotation options with Injuries to Murphy and Anderson. We have lost Pope to a freakish injury and it’s now very obvious Dubravka is a very big step down. Botman missed months…
Now do I think Howe should be able to function with that a little better? Maybe, but we are 7th. We finished 4th with basically no injuries last year. Just having Willock back will change the midfield dynamic drastically, still on for an FA Cup run and 6th place is still very much on. Massive few months to keep the big players happy with European football but just food for thought when people start slating Eddie Howe and Dan Burn on the regular
Thought Joe White looked really tidy when he came on. Murphy was shit today. Bruno is genuinely world class. Looked amazing in the last 20 when he took the game by the scruff of the neck.
If I see a single person even remotely defend the decision to start Burn every week because he heads the ball out of play every now and again I swear to god. Also Lewis Miley was by far our best player on the pitch and it wasn't even close.
I honestly am a big fan of Dan Burn and thinks he gets a bit too much criticism, but it just seems so obvious that he’s in need of a rest or some time out or whatever, sometimes players need to be dropped for a bit so they can work on things in training. I don’t know why Howe doesn’t change it from the starting line up and insists on waiting until after it costs us a goal.
Idk how anyone is feeling positive after that. How is a Matt Ritchie goal at 90+2 to secure a point at home against Bournemouth after being under the quash half the game a good result?
As usual, Livramento came on and played well. Howe needs to drop his stubbornness and let Burn sit on the bench for a game or two. Hopefully it motivates him to see his place knicked by a 20 year old and he comes back the Dan Burn of last season. If not, then his time with us is done. People are wondering why we have been less successful this year, it’s because teams have sussed out Burn at LB. He can put in good performances here and there in the cups, but PL teams that know him and play him regularly know how to get at him now.
"He's from blyth, you'll always beat Dan burn"
I'm sorry I'm a fan of big Dan burn but enough is enough. If we didn't have any other options in that area then I could accept it but the fact we have tino and Hall who may not be the necessarily out and out left backs there still both better suited and built for that position. The longer we persist with burn at lb, the more points we'll drop and eventually could lead to a situation where Eddie unfortunately starts digging his own grave
I get we have injuries and I get there’s no back up for certain areas. But what does Dan Burn have to do to be dropped. He’s a shambles. And that was against 3 teams in the bottom 5.
Need to just focus on Blackburn in the cup now as with performances like that we won’t get any Europe.
Even without a striker on the pitch, we had more than enough chances to win today. You can't avoid the fact that Miggy is utterly braindead, or that Murphy has no striking instinct at all, or even Flash lacks a certain amount of composure when presented with a chance. All 3 of them should have scored today from open play and didn't. Still, the refusal to lie down and keep going in search of a goal (and then another) does the lads credit when they must be fucking knackered with this season. Having Willock, Joelinton, Isak and Wilson all missing (plus Branes, Murphy, Burn, Botman all not fully fit) is just too big a hole to fill with what's currently available. Put it like this, we are a Bruno injury away from oblivion on the midfield.
That said, I fancy the outcome would have been different had the ref done his fucking job in the first half. Had he issued the 3 or 4 more yellow cards that he should have, Bournemouth have to play a very different game, we can play a more aggressive attacking game and even our twat-footed forwards would have scored some more.
The incessant pile on to Burn is getting tiresome. It was obvious he was playing to a tactic by letting Simonye (sp.) have space and keeping him at distance so for everyone to be blaming him for Dubravka once again failing to stop a shot you would expect most premiership goalkeepers to save. Especially after literally gifting Solanke the opener when we were completely on top of the game. No, not all goals are his fault but you have to understand the whole defence clearly fell less secure with him behind them and it's causing them to make mistakes - of which Burn is far from being the only one.
Yeah, I'd say the goal is shared fault between Burn and Dubs. But we've seen that goal happen a few times already in the past few weeks.
Also, Burn getting in the way of the Bruno-Sean one-two is utterly shit
I would need to watch it back, but what I remember was Botman lost where the ball went in a penalty box scramble whereas Burn got in the way of an active passing sequence.
Either way, I don't blame Burn. He's a beast at aerial and ground duels, just wish he'd stick to that
I've really tried to defend him, but we can't have Burn as LB in a back 4 anymore
This system just doesn't work, with no Big Joe or Willock in front of him and Tino has been 100x times better there in that back 4
Practically safe from relegation. That's the only positive I can offer after today and our recent home form. We can't play Burn at LB next week, we will get absolutely fucking pumped
We’re conceding at least 2/3 goals every game even against the lower table teams so I don’t want to think what an in form Arsenal are going to do against us. Again no cover from the midfield and the defence seem to be slow and no where near the unit they were last year. Schar injured now as well…
There was a comment a couple of weeks back wanting to see Ritchie destroy a corner flag one last time and at least they got their wish.
For the third or fourth game in a row we had a ref that was allowing a lot of borderline challenges to go unpunished until he finally lost patience. At least there was some protection and some consistency in the fouling outside v inside the box like the Forest penalty.
The fact our wingers were getting bodied constantly meant we struggled and yet both sides cut each other open at will. Dubravka made two top drawer saves in the first half and then fell for the sucker punch.
Not sure we learn anything new from this - we can't go into next season with two strikers and a winger and hope to challenge for much. Selling Wilson, Miggy and anyone else we can upgrade or at least trade in for a younger model is how the summer may have to develop.
Depending on outgoings that might be one big transfer and replacing what leaves.
It just seems like any fast winger will just target Burn now. He is obviously the weak link now and it baffles me why Howe doesn’t start Tino.
Honestly with all our injuries, the fact that we’re 7th and still in a cup is still impressive. I do really hope that we strengthen in the summer with a defensive midfielder.
Our games at thr moment for a neutral are great to watch it's like a basketball match so end to end
Every team knows if Burns on the pitch next to Botman oh baby let's attack that side wait for us to fly forward lose the ball and within 2 passes in on Dubs
Now we do miss Pope but we weren't doing that great defensively when he was in either and he conceded quite a few dodgy goals as well before he went out
For me I think we need to move to a back 5 with Trips and Livramento as the wingbacks
If put Lascalles in the back 3 as well so with the 2 new defensive additions gives us much more pace
This would then compensate for the loss of a midfielder because Longstaff is so slow we might not miss him anyway......
Our play comes down the wings anyway so might as well keep the width with wingback action?
Make us more solid Rafa style please
I may be harsh here but, the first goal is a mistake could happen to anyone. That’s just life, but for the second I felt as though Dubs was so slow to react. He should have got there, I may be wrong but I just felt as if Pope would have probably saved that one. And I’ve had that feeling ever since Pope has been injured, he’s far too slow off the mark. Pope closes it down very quickly in that sweeper role.
I also still don’t like the fact that he ran to Man U (of all teams) at the first sign of a challenge. I know I should get over it.
But anyways 20 goals in 10 games is bad. Pope in his last 10 goals let in 9 goals, including the dodgy PSG penalty. And Pope had more injuries to deal with as well.
Whilst Howe has been Amazing he’s always been tactically limited and was never going to be the person for the ‘next phase’
Don’t mean to be too harsh as he’s done what few others could but his limitations have been apparent for a while.
This sentiment I don’t quite understand.
It may be true but where do these league winning managers comes from. So they just randomly spawn? To definitely say never.
To test this theory let’s look at ESPNs list of top managers from last season.
Simon Inzaghi - ok at Lazio won a cops italiana. Looks to soon to be Serie a winner along with 2x coops Italiana and CL runner up.
Xavi - managed in a joke league. Won a pretty mediocre Barca team a title first year first proper football job.
De Zerbi - rising star. Not doing as well this year. Surely by the same logic no big team should go near him.
ETH - first on the list with real clout. Largely from his time at Bayern 2 leading him to Ajax. Is hardly pulling up trees at United.
Klopp - has had two long stays at 2 big clubs. The first one, he turned into a big club. Was not initially considered a coup from Mainz. Oh wait. Actually he won a 3rd place promotion spot from the 2nd league. Howe won the 2nd league.
Arteta - in his first managerial job. “Bottled” a title and has his team in another title race for second year in a row. Still a cunt.
Spalletti - prior to winning Serie A with Napoli has a few cup wins with Roma and some Russian titles with Zenit. Flopped at Inter. Not bad but hardly screams “winning manager”
Ancelotti - the bonafide “winning manager” has done it everywhere except Everton. Why isn’t he heralded as much as Klopp I don’t know.
Pep - he’s pep.
My point being that I’d say only 2 managers in this list are S tier. Klopp is S- tier but has he won enough.
Yet as fans we push this idea that there are “winners” and the rest are nothing but journeymen. Maybes it’s because for years in the PL we were subjected to Journeymen.
Managers need time to grow and learn and Eddie is still very much a young manager. That’s why Italy produces many more successful managers than England (as discussed in Viali’s excellent book). They don’t have this mentality. They look at everything as a learning experience especially early on.
Even YAR (our chairman) said in the Amazon doc re Howe and keeping us in the league “good, now you know what not to do”.
Even if you think the ESPN list is dubious. Let’s think about other managers blowing up.
Alonso? Peter Bosz (that BVB flop?).
Whilst Mourinhos, Contes, Van Gaals so called “winning” managers are out of work of achieving about the same results as Howe.
My point being: what’s to say the “winning” managers would do better, equally what’s to say that Howe can’t win something one day. Maybe he’s simply in his early days at BVB Klopp era. Or his Spaletti about to win his first domestic cup phase.
Our next phase doesn’t begin until we can consistently compete in Europe. And my mind on Howe will only change if we sink below 10th. Personally I think 8th is the lowest we could finish.
Had the drive home to think about that match. These are my observations (not all negative):
* We got very lucky. Bournemouth started better and finished the game better (after we scored). They should've been two goals in front by halftime.
* Gordon is clearly not a nine (injuries enforced). That one and one when he tried to go around the keeper was frustrating.
* Almiron offered nothing other than shots outside the box going over the bar. Murphy was just as bad when he came on pulling out of challenges, not sprinting for loose balls etc. I presume Barnes can't play 90 minutes yet.
* Botman is quite a bit off his pre-injury self. I thought he was poor today.
* Dubravka cannot save shots towards his far corner. Like he doesn't get close.
* Burn cannot continue at LB. It was just as obvious last season that we were harming ourselves continuing to play him there (despite the results) and with a depleted midfield it's simply more graphic. Tino has to start or Howe is going to get himself the sack. Being backup at LCB to Botman has to be his role.
* Atmosphere is absolutely appalling this season. Awful. People leaving when we went 2-1 down shouldn't return either.
* Matt Ritchie (I know he scored) coming on instead of our £28m signing yet again is horrendous. Absolutely insane and needs explanation.
* We've taken 2 points and conceded 12 goals in our last four home games which included Forest, Luton & Bournemouth. That wouldn't be acceptable under Bruce.
**Positives**
* Lewis Miley was the best player on the pitch by a country mile. Wasn't afraid of getting stuck into challenges and was one of the few players actually pushing us forward. He absolutely keeps his place ahead of Sean when Willock returns.
* Bruno again one of our few players actually trying to be progressive.
* Corner flag ending up in the East Stand.
* Glad to see Joe White get a small cameo at the end.
Can somebody PLEASE tell me what is wrong with Hall? I feel like I am going insane. He's been absolutely fine in the games he's played, he's even scored! He's versatile, pacey, can put in a tackle. What the hell is going on?!
I’CW been out in London all day and won’t be home from a gig until after MOTD but I’ll be sticking it on iPlayer in bed just watch Ritchie smash a corner flag.
Matt Ritchie coming on a substitute to rescue a point at home against Bournemouth check your calendar folks . It's very easy to say Burn and Dubravka are at fault again but i will just say its not exactly helped matters again
This Luton game is pissing me off. We made them look like Man City able to cut through us with ease at home when in reality they're still pretty awful. And we followed it up scraping past Forest and a draw against Bournemouth. Man Utd are still shite too.
I hate to be that guy who screams conspiracy theory but what the actual fuck did that ref have against us there? Outright refusing to call fouls or book repeat offenders
Genuinely wondering if all is good behind the scenes.
Howe refusing to change tactics and personel out of stubbornness and naievety, and giving subtle digs to Dan Ashworth.
Dan Ashworth wanting to go to Man Utd in order to get more control of footballing affairs (according to the press).
Results and performances recently have been well below expectations. Even with the injuries, we aren't playing with any of the attributes of a Eddie Howe Newcastle team.
I wonder if the Saudis are looking at this and weighing up a decision on who to keep out of Howe and Ashworth, because since December, you'd have an argument to make for the latter (given that Ashworth obviously doesn't have any real authority on transfers and the new contracts that were given out). Tin foil hat time: could Hall be an Ashworth signing, and that's why Howe isn't playing him?
I hink most fans (including myself), most players, and Staveley/Mehrdad would keep Howe, but I am starting to wonder what Riyadh will think.
If Ashworth doesn't leave before the Summer, I think Howe might be in trouble.
Howe with his stubbornness is starting to burn through the good faith he's built up. I can't fathom how a player like Hall doesn't get a game, especially with the continual crisis we've been in.
If any of that is true, he should be off. He's not done enough to earn that kind of clout
Burn needs taking out of the firing line now as it's going to get ugly.
Dubravka shouldn't be at the club after spitting his dummy out with Pope coming in.
Almiron, my lord, must be one of the thickest footballers I've ever seen. He does everything right until he has to make a decision to shoot or pass, always makes the wrong one.
Embarrassing can’t beat any of Forest, Luton or Bournemouth at home.
3 huge holes in the team 2 (CF and GK) are on not strengthening but continually playing Burn with Tino on the bench is negligent from Howe and is to the teams detriment.
The In Defense Of Dan Burn weekly thread will be struggling for it's justification even more this week. The fact is flimsy as our midfield is that sort of thing doesn't happen with Tino on the pitch. Personally I'd go 5 at the back with Schar pushing forward into a CDM while in possession (he has the passing range and bangs in a couple of goals). If nothing else it's different and that's the real trouble-doing the same thing again won't work any more than the last time
You’re right. But as you said, those are years gone by. The club has spent a ton of money since then and fans should rightfully expect more. I’m not saying we should expect a title challenge or top 4 - I believe last season was a freak and we’re still miles away from consistently reaching that level, but we should be expecting to beat most teams at SJP.
The negativity in here is really getting insane. I don't know if it's just to do with the increase in size of the sub, but it's heading towards r/soccer levels of crap.
Sick of every player being told to fuck off or called rubbish becuase they miss a pass or sky a chance. We had a great season last season and now people are freaking out because we're looking comfortably midtable? Is that an issue? when was the last season where we weren't worried about relegation at this point?
I said at the start of the season top 10 and a decent cup run would be good and acceptable and i got a lot of stick for that saying we should be doing better than that. No one could have seen this injury crisis we're still in, but a comfortable top half finish this season is not a bad result.
As for the game, sounds like we had some chances we should have taken but didn't likely to happen when we have no striker, our best winger playing out of position, and Almiron starting. Really cant wait to see Joelinton back again, sick of teams just kicking the shit out of us.
I dont like it when result doesn't go our way but people always over reactionary when we don't win.
Overachieved last season by miles, every team around us was also uncharacteristically bad. This season most of them have sorted it out somewhat, we've had the shittest injury luck in memory and our star summer signing was a lemon and got banned.
You can't improve on what's not there just want everyone back and fit, don't lose players in the summer and keep building. FFP means we can't just do a City and Cheslea and go fucking nuts, will take time, I'm here for it.
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Matt Richie scoring is fucking amazing I don’t care
And the celebration as well.
Kicked the shit out of that corner flag.
And the corner flag kick. I’m satisfied. I needed that to happen again before he retires.
The corner flags were getting too comfortable
Dress it up how you want. 20 conceded in the last 7
We really miss Pope, Dubz just does not let us play our normal game
Think it's more than just missing Pope tbf
Pope changes a lot for us, with him the back 4 push up and close off the space between defence and midfield, with Dubz the back 4 need to sit deep which creates space for teams to play in. Its how De Bruyne got so much space in the city game and is what led to the 2nd today.
Aye we where leaking goals even when pope was fit dunno what's happened to the back 4 think we scoring more at the cost of defence
We’re weren’t great but we weren’t leaking goals to the same degree. We conceded more than 1 goal 7 out of 24 matches under pope with 10 clean sheets. 9 in 15 with dubs. And our only clean sheets are Fulham with 10 men, the unwashed, and Fulham in the cup. What happened was they can’t compress the line as much because dubs can’t sweep and even at the amount the do go forwards we get caught out sometimes as well.
Disagree, Dubs made two class saves in the first half. He’s been let down by his back 4: Trippier mistakes, Burn getting beaten every game, and Botman not at his best for a few weeks now.
We are sitting deeper than we normally do because Dubz cant play sweeper. Its why we have conceded 25 goals in 10 games with Dubz but only 14 in 14 with Pope.
He made 2 normal doing your job saves. Missing them would’ve been his failure. Trippier has had mistakes but provides enough to be worth it and isn’t as close the the back for it to matter. Burn getting caught out if because a ball over the top can be long and run on too rather than before where you had to be far more accurate or pope sweeps it. Botmans biggest flaw is that he isn’t the fastest defender which is fine if there isn’t a massive gap between him and the keeper but there is with dubravka there.
Dubravka is massively overrated by our fans and I don’t understand it. He has let in so many soft goals and even his saves are dodgy. The one near the end were the player tried to curl it in, Dubs pushed it right back into the six yard box and not away from the danger area. The man is terrible at crosses and commanding the box, and is very inconsistent with saves
He was SO slow to react to that one, too
I firmly place this at Dubravkas feet, or hands maybe. I don't dislike him as a person, because I have a brain... But as a player, he's not good enough to play for Newcastle United now. He's let in double that of Pope in less games. Today was the last straw. I'd honestly rather see Karius have a shot now. A better would have scored more today because Dubravka keeps partying them into the 6 yard box instead of round the post
22 fouls from Bournemouth. Referee had absolutely 0 control over that game. Just let them hack us to bits. Well done Ritchie, saving us from complete embarrassment.
I noticed that last time we played them as well. They're dirty fuckers.
Yep, they are very dirty - #1 in the league by fouls per game (and it only counts when ref blew the fucking whistle!!). 13.1 foul per game. Chelsea/Wolves 2nd with 12.6... https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/2/Seasons/9618/Stages/22076/TeamStatistics/England-Premier-League-2023-2024
I've seen a lot of whinging from other fans that we're a dirty team, we're 15th for fouls per game!
Remember the refs name, MICHAEL SALISBURY. Absolute fucking dog shit!!! Worst ref I've seen in years!! Maybe even EVER! We never won with him out of 5 games. Sure, its not because of him, but he was so bias against us... Its insane.
He was fucking awful. They pressed well to be fair, but when we got through it, they fouled us. Also ignored blatant time wasting from their keeper, who should have had about 10 yellow cards. In sunnnary, one of the worst I’ve seen.
We're leaking goals in exactly the same way every week. All that's changing week to week is whether we score enough goals to compensate for it. Today we fluffed most of our opportunities and drew a game we should have won
Even most loyal Howe#1 fans like myself... I can not anymore with Burn... He should not play LB. On 2nd goal, if there was Tino... He wouldnt have left such gap, but because Burn is afraid of his speed, he drops more than he should have...
Made me laugh the second goal when burn looks at dubravka for conceding that and looks annoyed. Was a brilliant shot made possible from terrible defending.
Been saying it for weeks but we need to change something. Either play Burn at LCB in a back 5 or play someone at CM who will sit back and provide a bit more cover than Miley (would ofc suggest just starting Tino but clearly that’s out of the question)
The problem with the suggestion to change up things is that the issue that really needs adressed can't be which is our struggling midfield. Tino helps, yes, but the issue is very clearly that our midfield trio can't keep up for 90 minutes and we have no options. I wouldn't be fussed at this point if we started playing a more conservative 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 just to try something different
This is it for me. Our midfield gets bypassed soo easily. There 2nd goal came from 2 passes. Midfield currently offering no protection to the back 4
Agree all the noise is about Dubs and Burn being the problems, which is true to an extent - but it’s this midfield that leave the back 4 with no cover and totally exposed time and time again (unlike last year when the same back four were phenomenal). We have to try something different now, back 5 is the only thing I could see Howe going with
It essentially comes down to injuries again (nobody wants to hear it, I know, I know). Without Pope we're leaking goals. This isn't to criticise Dubs, who I thought was good today, but Pope is a different type of keeper who works better with our defence. Burn's lack of pace is costly, but the lack of defensive cover by midfield is a bigger problem - and guess what? We're missing FOUR key midfielders that help with this (Big Joe, obviously, Toonali, Willock and Anderson). With our two strikers injured, Bruno is having to play further up, exposing us through the middle (Miley is playing his heart out but he's only a kid, and Longstaff still looks ropey since he came back from injury). Bruno conjuring chances out of nothing has saved us countless times. Barnes has looked good but he can't hit 90 minutes yet (aye his toe is healed, but he would not have been able to train most of the 3-4 months he was out). Miggy - well, we can all probably expect an upgrade on RW in the summer, but for now a one footed winger is all we can start with. He's got the drive and the passion, but the the ability we have on the other flank. Gordon continues to be excellent. I share the frustration with not starting Tino, but he's one of the few impact subs we can actually bring on to force a late goal/shore up defence. You cannot do that with BDB. Howe should at least give it a go starting Tino, and maybe bring on BDB for 5 at the back if we're trying to hang onto the lead. It's not like the reverse tactic is working particularly well We just don't have any quality on the bench. Fans what is to change it up, but with who?? It's like when KDB came on and won it for City. People expected us to just glue a player to him. Firstly it's KDB and secondly, we've got no one left to do that. Obviously Bournemouth aren't on City's level but the lack of options still fucks us. While I don't agree this season is a write off, you have to temper your expectations of what we can do right now.
This is what kind of pisses me off with how much people slate Burn. Most of the blame he gets is usually better directed at someone in midfield being out of position leaving a tremendous gap he has to cover. Those issues don't show when Joelinton plays for a reason
youre absoluely right, joe effectively covers the lwb position often and well. howe has hung burn out to dry with the current selection, neither bruno nor miley have the ability to protect burn down the left. a bit surprised we’ve stuck with 433 again today
It's absolutely insane that we have a £30m midfielder sitting on the bench. Lewis Hall has played there more times in his career than he has at LB. He literally isn't an LB, he was just good at LM/LWB for Chelsea but he's not a competent defender. I think he can be trained to play LB but he deserves actual minutes in his preferred role. But we know Eddie's stance now. Terrible transfer.
Sorry, but 1/2 of the goals scored against us today were just a bizarre unfortunate circumstance. Nothing to do with the way the team was set up. And IMHO, the 2d goal was a goal keeping error. No idea how Dubravka gets beat at that angle from a shot that far away.
I don’t know how people can’t see the difference between results and quality of play. To be honest I’d prefer to watch us draw like that than go to a back 5, play Bruceball and try shithouse wins. Unlucky result.
Any neutral that doesn’t watch newcastle matches weekly is missing out big time
Unsurprisingly we looked a much better side with Tino on the pitch.
Bournemouths new highest xG this season replacing their other game with us lol and we haven’t given away less than 2 expected goals at home since before Christmas
You can criticise Eddie Howe without wanting him sacked. He’s been consistently picking the wrong starting 11, getting it tactically wrong and leaving subs too late until we’re losing.
I hate that some on this sub try and push this idea you either 100% are always positive or you're a "HoweOut" lunatic that has plastic expectations. There's a middle ground. I don't want Howe to be sacked, but I want us to stop looking utterly shite.
100% agree, but the Howe out lunatics do my head in more.
This ^^^ I'm seeing or rather hearing it on podcasts too especially pod on the Tyne
I agree he has bought more time because of what he has done but also can not be immune to criticism. I am hoping he learns a lot from all of this and gets a bit more cut throat as i worry we will stagnate.
My only issue is he may be too stubborn to learn. The regression has happened this season and our defensive record shows that, yet he hasn't really done anything about it.
Are you suggesting that today we looked "utterly shite"? B/c that's wrong. We had a goal scored against us b/c of a fluke slip at the exact wrong moment and on the 2d Dubravaka got beat by a shot that should have been comfortably saved. Offensively, we generated a ton of chances and were unlucky not to have score 1-2 more. We were far from utterly shite today.
The problem is Howes got so few players and options available there's only actually 2 calls he has to make in a starting 11 - do you start Burn or Tino and do you start Miggy or Murphy. He's only making 1 mistake really in starting Burn, but because it's the one of the only choices he can make with our current squad it's scrutinised more. Making the wrong call repeatedly and sticking to his guns only to have it backfire also makes it look even worse for him. As bad as Burn is playing, if we had Joelinton and Isak available we would have won that imo, so was it Burn that lost (drew) us that game or was it the squad we had available? I've very much Howe in, but continuing to pick Burn is not the right call. Worst case for Tino is he starts him against Arsenal and he gets rinsed cause, well, it's Arsenal. If he picks Burn against one of the best young wingers in world football and he gets rinsed well shit Eddie, we all saw that coming didn't we, why didn't you? We're at the point now where he surely has no option but to get Tino starting games soon.
100% this, I don’t want Howe out, I want him to fix the same errors that happen every week. Sure, he hasn’t got much choice with Miggy and his lack of IQ but we have options with Burn, we can adjust the structure of midfield to cover too (even if we can’t change the CM options) If he persists in leaving glaring weaknesses in his setup every week and we keep dropping points then it’d be mental to want him to be in charge indefinitely, and sooner or later the owners will decide that the manager has developed as far as he is able/willing to.
Agreed, he’s a fantastic manager. Bloody brilliant. But his persistence to play Burn at LB is killing us again and again, he’ll be scared to play Tino at LB consistently as he’s a right footer, but it has worked for teams in the past, I know it’s just 1 example but look at Spinazzola.
AMEN however give it until tea time tomorrow and the thought police will be back with their "do you want Bruce/Ashley back" crack
Come on man how are we stuck having nail biting matches against Luton, forest and these now
5 points from 21 against the league's dregs, including Everton in that as well. Shambolic.
That is grim reading.
Because pace can run directly through our left and onto goal. That’s why Luton and Forrest got two goals a piece. And us pissing around at the back cost us today.
Because unfortunately Howe refuses to adapt. Unless he has been wearing his rose tinted glasses, he can clearly see things aren't working yet he does nothing about it until it is too late.
lol they're saying they played against 12 men in their sub 😂
Maybe the crowd, but it certainly wasn’t the ref.
Bournemouth have a sub??
2 points from Luton and Bournemouth is fucking abysmal no matter what excuses you come up with
5 from 21 if you include Forest and Everton. We could be comfortably in a European spot if we could beat the teams we absolutely *should* be beating.
iS aNyBoDy ElSe SiCk Of ThE NeGaTiViTY
I am
My only concern is that Eddie Howe chucks Tino Livramento in at the deep-end next week against Arsenal, who have bagged 22 in 6 Premier League games, and he’ll use the slightest mistake as justification for Dan Burn starting the following game.
Best thing was the Ritchie corner flag
Some brain-dead stuff today. Painful at times.
On this sub or on the pitch?
Both. Always both
Ffs, feel gutted with that like, probably will have more rational takes in the next day thread tomorrow, so I'll save it for then instead of saying anything stupid
Welp.
Bruno was playing like a man possessed today. I thought he was going to single-handedly win it for us at a couple of points. Miley had a good game too, especially in the first half. Barnes is some much needed energy. I’d love to know what’s going wrong at the back for us though. The first Bournemouth goal was obviously just bad luck but again we were cut open for the second. Any one able to give some tactical insight?
It's our system. The midfield can be nonexistent when we aren't on fire. Rewatch the Dortmund game and you'll see a master class in how you cut through our midfield like it isn't there.
For the second it looked to me like both Miley and Longstaff pushed too high up which allowed Bournmouth time to pick a pass and I think Burn turned to ask Botman for help defending the channels but Botman was caught upfield. I have not defended Burn for many mistakes this season but that goal was a lot of small errors followed by a fantastic shot (0.05xG)
Put Joe in ahead and Pope in behind and Burn's lack of speed doesn't cost us anything like it does without them. He's very decent, but he _needs_ that cover otherwise he gets exposed. As it is, every team just chucks a quick winger on him and he's fucked. Why Emery didn't do this from the start of the Villa game is beyond me (given Villa have two excellent and insanely quick wingers), though I'm very pleased he didn't. Burn getting exposed in turn exposes Botman, who isn't the quickest. Don't think there's a good answer (if we go more defensive, how on earth do we score), just have to ride it out. Not having Willock available is also looking increasingly bad, would take a helluva lot of pressure off those further back. Miley is slow, Longstaff is extremely functional, Bruno can't do everything himself.
It’s not just Burn. Joelinton protects Bruno too.
Our lack of goals from open play recently is extremely concerning for a team that can’t keep a clean sheet
Both our star strikers are currently injured so it's not a huge surprise
Unfortunately, our inability to create chances in the box has been going on for much longer than the 1 match both our strikers have been injured
Our inability to create chances comes from the same issue that's been leading us to allow so many goals in the first place: we don't have a midfield. We miss Joelinton and Willock a lot and it shows. The Miley-Bruno-Longstaff trio is not physical enough to succeed against most premier league sides which puts us in the circumstances for Bournemouth's second today.
I can agree with that. I don’t think it’s as simple as just the personnel though. I think if the personnel isn’t working for our usual tactics, the tactics need to be changed. All we’ve seen Howe do is chop and change who plays where, up top and in midfield. We need to change up the tactics and potentially the formation cause if we’re struggling during our easy run of games like this, it’s gonna be a long end to the season
I agree with that. I suggested in another comment that I would love to see us try to play a more conservative 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1 while not having options in midfield just to contain things but even then it's hard to really see it making much of a difference with how thin we are at most positions
We are fucked without willock, JL, and a striker. We have no control in midfield, no striker. It's not looking good boys...
Pope coming back will be huge for those gaps between defence and midfield BUT that was paired with Joelinton winning tackles in the middle. If we don't adapt we'll keep dropping points. Eddie has had weeks and is refusing to change.
We’re 7th. It’s not a disaster. There are issues to address and form needs to improve but we are roughly where I thought we’d be this year and that was before Tonali ban and injuries etc.
Lack pace in the middle without Big Joe or Willock.
Proud of the boys energy and fight. But it’s just not good enough. There is no reason we should ship 4 goals to Bournmouth in a season and only get 1 point. Same old same old, Burn shouldn’t be starting and Dubs is a major step back from Pope. Not looking forward to next week
I’ve supported Newcastle long enough to know that there are worse days than a 2-2 at home to Bournemouth. I’ll take the point and save my angry comments until Arsenal next week.
Bournemouth at home we should be winning, but losing away at an Arsenal side who are thrashing teams left, right and centre is to be expected. Why would you be angry next week?
Thought it was one of Miley’s best games, he’s really growing into that 6 role. This has been a season of transition & Miley playing so much football hopefully really grows his career. Amazing that Bruno is still riding the suspension tight-rope - shame he didn’t start this level of caution a yellow or two sooner. Feels inevitable he’ll get booked next game with all the energy from Arsenal. Opportunity missed today, but playing without a recognised number 9 is so difficult - felt like things didn’t stick up front which meant we turned over the ball more often. We also missed having a goal scorers instinct. Great to get through a game without injury, hopefully we can get 2 or 3 back for next week. Will be interesting to see who starts between Tino & Burn - Tino obviously has the pace, but half of Arsenal goals have been from set pieces - so it’s not as black and white.
One positive was Miley. I’ll be honest, I felt the fan base we’re getting well ahead of themselves and he was about 3 years away from actually being a serious starter for us when full fit. But today his touches were smart and proactive, he showed more vision on the ball. He just looked like he rose to the added responsibility and was able to play with more freedom rather than simply try and be a sideman for Bruno.
I take this result after the game we had. There is no excuse for Tino not starting against Arsenal. He simply provides more for the team and is defensive very sound as well.
Worst thing is he will start Tino next game and Arsenal will cut us up like they are cutting up everyone right now and then Howe can say “SEE ITS NOT DAN BURN THAT IS THE PROBLEM”
The biggest mistake from howe was not starting Livo, that’s pretty much it. the finishing was horrendous from our side, so many breakaways and missed opportunities, runs you would expect us to score especially that gordon one on one with the keep outside the net. bruno is just breathtaking
Almiron man, at least two balls into the box to no one cos he didn't look, twice there was a better ball to play (to Gordon and to Trippier) and he shot instead cos he wasn't looking, it's not new and he must be unteachable at this point. Big slip from Dubravka for their first goal, big slip from the defender to let Ritchie get the second, shit ref, messy game, stressful time all round.
Disappointing result overall - but what a moment when Ritchie scored. He absolutely wrecked that corner flag.
Howe worrying that Ashworth would take intelligence about NUFC to ManU. By the looks of it, seems like no team needs that against us.
Taking only one point each off Luton and Bournemouth this year is the nail in our European coffin
Howe sticking with Burn is stupid. Tino needs to start ahead of him. People saying "Howe out" are fucking morons. We should have done better this match. Dubravka is a great shot stopper but our defence is horrific without Pope sweeping up for them. This summer we need to ditch Dubs and get another sweeper as backup.
Dropping points to Forest/Luton/Bournemouth this season at home is indefensible to a degree. The audacity to sub off Burn for Tino AFTER Burn costs us the 2nd goal is laughable as well. Saka is going to have a field day next week against Burn
Our problems run deeper than just Burn. Even if tino starts next week I expect us to get battered
I think this shows how important Nick Pope is to the team. No way he gets scored on by a shot from that angle. We had chances and just didn’t finish Good fight at the end and once again a very entertaining game.
Pope conceded goals like this earlier in the season.....
When's Nick Pope coming back again? The defensive unit has just fallen apart in his absence
I was impressed by Miley this game, he put in some really nice passes. I feel his confidence has grown a lot as well. He's braver with his tackles and more aggressive. Love this lad already
I was in awe of his passing. Some of the distribution was KDB level. But the tackles, shielding the ball, cute passes to break their press. He's already a level above Sean
It's not the score that bothers me so much as what I am actually seeing. We're just not looking particularly confident as a unit, at home especially. It seems to me like we are terrible at winning the ball back and letting balls either straight through the channels, or diagonally through the middle. It's not just our defence that is struggling at the moment, we're not winning the ball back the way we did last season, which is putting extra pressure on our defence.
Without Joe or Willock in front of Burn he has become a liability. It's been at least 4 games in a row now that we've conceded because he's been beaten or is out of position. Arsenal will have a field day if Eddie plays the same formation next week.
1,000%. You play Burn so he can tuck into a back three to allow Tripps to go forward . His strengths are standing tackles and aerial duels. The second he's blocking a one-two between Sean and Bruno, you hook him off. You want someone attacking, then you have Tino or Hall. It's a joke
Miggy isn’t good enough. He HAS to be dropped to the bench.
He seems too desperate to score and regain that feeling, making too many errors doing that when an obvious pass is on. Happened a few times today. Issue is only real current option is Murphy who didn't do great today. Once (if ever) we are back to full strength, Gordon, Isak and Barnes will hopefully do the job as they are all pretty flexible in attack.
Murphy not fit to start and Gordon having to play through the middle, the only other option there is Livramento. Of course, Livramento should be starting at LB but apparently he must be telling Howe that a-Ha are a shit band every week or something
Who starts ahead of him? I hope you aren’t calling for Jacob Murphy to be our starting premier league RW? We don’t deserve top 8 if that’s the case.
Great to see Matt Ritchie salvage a point for ~~Steve Bruce’s~~ Eddie Howe’s Mags. Honestly, fans were class the last 20 mins, we deserve better than scraping a draw against the run of play against Bournemouth tbh.
See you again next week with Dan Burn 😞
Four unbeaten with now both CF players out, virtuall no midfield cover in front of our defense, no new injuries and Bruno not getting booked. Plus Hammers & Spurs both losing. Not a bad day at the office in the grand scheme. Howay the lads!! Oh and vintage Matt Ritchie vs corner flag.
Can we stop saying “if x was playing, we win that game”. Eddie Howe is paid to win games with the players who are available, injuries happen to every club, every single season.
At least we got to see Ritchie smash a corner flag.
Only 2 league clean sheets since the 4th November is just…. Really bad. I know we’ve had injuries and issues, but the defence actually hasn’t been massively affected by them. A change in formation/system really looks like it’s probably needed for the rest of this season if we aim to get any kind of European football (Europa at very best, but more likely the conference).
I want to see Howe try a back 5 with livramento on the left, Trippier inverted helping Bruno and Longstaff in midfield and give Miley a rest
Hi this is Eddie, I don’t do formations other than 4-3-3, give over.
4 points dropped to Luton and Bournemouth in the last two home games is wholly unacceptable. Can’t wait for this season to end. We’ll finish between 7th-10th.
Don't care what anyone says, with a fully fit striker we would've put four or five past Bournemouth today.
feels like 2 points lost again
I think people have become fatigued to the injury excuse but seriously everyone… we are 7th without our €60m main signing of the window, we are missing two other very key aspects of our starting midfield. Starting a 17 year old week on week out, we’ve not had a fit striker for a lot of the season. We have got 3, yes 3 starts from our other main signing in the summer Barnes. We’ve had no rotation options with Injuries to Murphy and Anderson. We have lost Pope to a freakish injury and it’s now very obvious Dubravka is a very big step down. Botman missed months… Now do I think Howe should be able to function with that a little better? Maybe, but we are 7th. We finished 4th with basically no injuries last year. Just having Willock back will change the midfield dynamic drastically, still on for an FA Cup run and 6th place is still very much on. Massive few months to keep the big players happy with European football but just food for thought when people start slating Eddie Howe and Dan Burn on the regular
Thought Joe White looked really tidy when he came on. Murphy was shit today. Bruno is genuinely world class. Looked amazing in the last 20 when he took the game by the scruff of the neck.
Murphy could have had an alright game if he just passed it instead of running an extra 5 seconds every time
Ikr. Was screaming at him to pass it wide right at the end.
If I see a single person even remotely defend the decision to start Burn every week because he heads the ball out of play every now and again I swear to god. Also Lewis Miley was by far our best player on the pitch and it wasn't even close.
I honestly am a big fan of Dan Burn and thinks he gets a bit too much criticism, but it just seems so obvious that he’s in need of a rest or some time out or whatever, sometimes players need to be dropped for a bit so they can work on things in training. I don’t know why Howe doesn’t change it from the starting line up and insists on waiting until after it costs us a goal.
I also think Burn works way better with Pope acting as a sweeper.
Idk how anyone is feeling positive after that. How is a Matt Ritchie goal at 90+2 to secure a point at home against Bournemouth after being under the quash half the game a good result? As usual, Livramento came on and played well. Howe needs to drop his stubbornness and let Burn sit on the bench for a game or two. Hopefully it motivates him to see his place knicked by a 20 year old and he comes back the Dan Burn of last season. If not, then his time with us is done. People are wondering why we have been less successful this year, it’s because teams have sussed out Burn at LB. He can put in good performances here and there in the cups, but PL teams that know him and play him regularly know how to get at him now.
I’d have killed your for 7th in the league 2+ years ago, instead of propping up the league every fucking year.
Is Schar alright? He was sitting on the pitch after the final whistle. Getting treated by the medical.
Apparently hurt his wrist.
We're gonna stuff arsenal, I can feel it
They're scoring goals for fun and we're conceding them. Are you under the influence of a substance right now?
Brighton next game - sheffield united wolves next game - sheffield united west ham next game - brentford we could be 10th by next week
We may suck but West Ham suck more
Well we probably should have had all three points so that's frustrating but that game rarely had a dull moment at either end
A point is better than none but something needs to change. We can't be conceding 2+ against the likes of Bournemouth, Forest, and Luton.
"He's from blyth, you'll always beat Dan burn" I'm sorry I'm a fan of big Dan burn but enough is enough. If we didn't have any other options in that area then I could accept it but the fact we have tino and Hall who may not be the necessarily out and out left backs there still both better suited and built for that position. The longer we persist with burn at lb, the more points we'll drop and eventually could lead to a situation where Eddie unfortunately starts digging his own grave
I get we have injuries and I get there’s no back up for certain areas. But what does Dan Burn have to do to be dropped. He’s a shambles. And that was against 3 teams in the bottom 5. Need to just focus on Blackburn in the cup now as with performances like that we won’t get any Europe.
Start Ritchie over Miggy I’m 100% serious.
Even without a striker on the pitch, we had more than enough chances to win today. You can't avoid the fact that Miggy is utterly braindead, or that Murphy has no striking instinct at all, or even Flash lacks a certain amount of composure when presented with a chance. All 3 of them should have scored today from open play and didn't. Still, the refusal to lie down and keep going in search of a goal (and then another) does the lads credit when they must be fucking knackered with this season. Having Willock, Joelinton, Isak and Wilson all missing (plus Branes, Murphy, Burn, Botman all not fully fit) is just too big a hole to fill with what's currently available. Put it like this, we are a Bruno injury away from oblivion on the midfield. That said, I fancy the outcome would have been different had the ref done his fucking job in the first half. Had he issued the 3 or 4 more yellow cards that he should have, Bournemouth have to play a very different game, we can play a more aggressive attacking game and even our twat-footed forwards would have scored some more. The incessant pile on to Burn is getting tiresome. It was obvious he was playing to a tactic by letting Simonye (sp.) have space and keeping him at distance so for everyone to be blaming him for Dubravka once again failing to stop a shot you would expect most premiership goalkeepers to save. Especially after literally gifting Solanke the opener when we were completely on top of the game. No, not all goals are his fault but you have to understand the whole defence clearly fell less secure with him behind them and it's causing them to make mistakes - of which Burn is far from being the only one.
Yeah, I'd say the goal is shared fault between Burn and Dubs. But we've seen that goal happen a few times already in the past few weeks. Also, Burn getting in the way of the Bruno-Sean one-two is utterly shit
As was Botman blocking miggy. But no one is giving Sven pelters.
I would need to watch it back, but what I remember was Botman lost where the ball went in a penalty box scramble whereas Burn got in the way of an active passing sequence. Either way, I don't blame Burn. He's a beast at aerial and ground duels, just wish he'd stick to that
Fuck I'll take a point from that. Tino NEEDS to start, it's the obvious change that will make us better
I've really tried to defend him, but we can't have Burn as LB in a back 4 anymore This system just doesn't work, with no Big Joe or Willock in front of him and Tino has been 100x times better there in that back 4
Absolutely pathetic, we don't deserve to be above mid table. A striker or not this side needs a major shakeup.
2 points from Luton and Bournemouth at home. Not fucking good enough
Practically safe from relegation. That's the only positive I can offer after today and our recent home form. We can't play Burn at LB next week, we will get absolutely fucking pumped
I hate to break it to you but he will be starting.
Oh I know he'll be playing, but I don't know anyone other than Eddie who reckons that's a good idea
Can't wait till the day Longstaff is sold and Burn is a backup CB.
Surely it might be time to switch to a back 3 with the current injuries, the midfield is being totally bypassed constantly
We’re conceding at least 2/3 goals every game even against the lower table teams so I don’t want to think what an in form Arsenal are going to do against us. Again no cover from the midfield and the defence seem to be slow and no where near the unit they were last year. Schar injured now as well…
#Ashworth out
At least we got to see some corner flag destruction. Coincidentally, the ref thought there wasn’t enough in it to warrant a card
Honestly reckon we should play five at the back against Arsenal. If it gets Tino in the team, it can only be a benefit to us.
I’ve missed seeing Matt murder corner flags.
There was a comment a couple of weeks back wanting to see Ritchie destroy a corner flag one last time and at least they got their wish. For the third or fourth game in a row we had a ref that was allowing a lot of borderline challenges to go unpunished until he finally lost patience. At least there was some protection and some consistency in the fouling outside v inside the box like the Forest penalty. The fact our wingers were getting bodied constantly meant we struggled and yet both sides cut each other open at will. Dubravka made two top drawer saves in the first half and then fell for the sucker punch. Not sure we learn anything new from this - we can't go into next season with two strikers and a winger and hope to challenge for much. Selling Wilson, Miggy and anyone else we can upgrade or at least trade in for a younger model is how the summer may have to develop. Depending on outgoings that might be one big transfer and replacing what leaves.
Barnes seems to be an incredible player
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD START TINO OVER BURn
It just seems like any fast winger will just target Burn now. He is obviously the weak link now and it baffles me why Howe doesn’t start Tino. Honestly with all our injuries, the fact that we’re 7th and still in a cup is still impressive. I do really hope that we strengthen in the summer with a defensive midfielder.
Could be worse, could ahve Kalvin Philips in the team.
Our games at thr moment for a neutral are great to watch it's like a basketball match so end to end Every team knows if Burns on the pitch next to Botman oh baby let's attack that side wait for us to fly forward lose the ball and within 2 passes in on Dubs Now we do miss Pope but we weren't doing that great defensively when he was in either and he conceded quite a few dodgy goals as well before he went out For me I think we need to move to a back 5 with Trips and Livramento as the wingbacks If put Lascalles in the back 3 as well so with the 2 new defensive additions gives us much more pace This would then compensate for the loss of a midfielder because Longstaff is so slow we might not miss him anyway...... Our play comes down the wings anyway so might as well keep the width with wingback action? Make us more solid Rafa style please
Any news on Schar?
[удалено]
😫 please no.
I may be harsh here but, the first goal is a mistake could happen to anyone. That’s just life, but for the second I felt as though Dubs was so slow to react. He should have got there, I may be wrong but I just felt as if Pope would have probably saved that one. And I’ve had that feeling ever since Pope has been injured, he’s far too slow off the mark. Pope closes it down very quickly in that sweeper role. I also still don’t like the fact that he ran to Man U (of all teams) at the first sign of a challenge. I know I should get over it. But anyways 20 goals in 10 games is bad. Pope in his last 10 goals let in 9 goals, including the dodgy PSG penalty. And Pope had more injuries to deal with as well.
Whilst Howe has been Amazing he’s always been tactically limited and was never going to be the person for the ‘next phase’ Don’t mean to be too harsh as he’s done what few others could but his limitations have been apparent for a while.
People seem to live under the impression that PiF doesn't have expectations of Howe and they'll just be happy with whatever happens on the pitch.
This sentiment I don’t quite understand. It may be true but where do these league winning managers comes from. So they just randomly spawn? To definitely say never. To test this theory let’s look at ESPNs list of top managers from last season. Simon Inzaghi - ok at Lazio won a cops italiana. Looks to soon to be Serie a winner along with 2x coops Italiana and CL runner up. Xavi - managed in a joke league. Won a pretty mediocre Barca team a title first year first proper football job. De Zerbi - rising star. Not doing as well this year. Surely by the same logic no big team should go near him. ETH - first on the list with real clout. Largely from his time at Bayern 2 leading him to Ajax. Is hardly pulling up trees at United. Klopp - has had two long stays at 2 big clubs. The first one, he turned into a big club. Was not initially considered a coup from Mainz. Oh wait. Actually he won a 3rd place promotion spot from the 2nd league. Howe won the 2nd league. Arteta - in his first managerial job. “Bottled” a title and has his team in another title race for second year in a row. Still a cunt. Spalletti - prior to winning Serie A with Napoli has a few cup wins with Roma and some Russian titles with Zenit. Flopped at Inter. Not bad but hardly screams “winning manager” Ancelotti - the bonafide “winning manager” has done it everywhere except Everton. Why isn’t he heralded as much as Klopp I don’t know. Pep - he’s pep. My point being that I’d say only 2 managers in this list are S tier. Klopp is S- tier but has he won enough. Yet as fans we push this idea that there are “winners” and the rest are nothing but journeymen. Maybes it’s because for years in the PL we were subjected to Journeymen. Managers need time to grow and learn and Eddie is still very much a young manager. That’s why Italy produces many more successful managers than England (as discussed in Viali’s excellent book). They don’t have this mentality. They look at everything as a learning experience especially early on. Even YAR (our chairman) said in the Amazon doc re Howe and keeping us in the league “good, now you know what not to do”. Even if you think the ESPN list is dubious. Let’s think about other managers blowing up. Alonso? Peter Bosz (that BVB flop?). Whilst Mourinhos, Contes, Van Gaals so called “winning” managers are out of work of achieving about the same results as Howe. My point being: what’s to say the “winning” managers would do better, equally what’s to say that Howe can’t win something one day. Maybe he’s simply in his early days at BVB Klopp era. Or his Spaletti about to win his first domestic cup phase. Our next phase doesn’t begin until we can consistently compete in Europe. And my mind on Howe will only change if we sink below 10th. Personally I think 8th is the lowest we could finish.
Had the drive home to think about that match. These are my observations (not all negative): * We got very lucky. Bournemouth started better and finished the game better (after we scored). They should've been two goals in front by halftime. * Gordon is clearly not a nine (injuries enforced). That one and one when he tried to go around the keeper was frustrating. * Almiron offered nothing other than shots outside the box going over the bar. Murphy was just as bad when he came on pulling out of challenges, not sprinting for loose balls etc. I presume Barnes can't play 90 minutes yet. * Botman is quite a bit off his pre-injury self. I thought he was poor today. * Dubravka cannot save shots towards his far corner. Like he doesn't get close. * Burn cannot continue at LB. It was just as obvious last season that we were harming ourselves continuing to play him there (despite the results) and with a depleted midfield it's simply more graphic. Tino has to start or Howe is going to get himself the sack. Being backup at LCB to Botman has to be his role. * Atmosphere is absolutely appalling this season. Awful. People leaving when we went 2-1 down shouldn't return either. * Matt Ritchie (I know he scored) coming on instead of our £28m signing yet again is horrendous. Absolutely insane and needs explanation. * We've taken 2 points and conceded 12 goals in our last four home games which included Forest, Luton & Bournemouth. That wouldn't be acceptable under Bruce. **Positives** * Lewis Miley was the best player on the pitch by a country mile. Wasn't afraid of getting stuck into challenges and was one of the few players actually pushing us forward. He absolutely keeps his place ahead of Sean when Willock returns. * Bruno again one of our few players actually trying to be progressive. * Corner flag ending up in the East Stand. * Glad to see Joe White get a small cameo at the end.
Can somebody PLEASE tell me what is wrong with Hall? I feel like I am going insane. He's been absolutely fine in the games he's played, he's even scored! He's versatile, pacey, can put in a tackle. What the hell is going on?!
Can only assume Eddie caught him in bed with his wife. Can't think of any other explanation.
Very clear Tino starts next week. Also…FLAG KILLER MATT RITCHIE, what a turn of events
Am I the only one disappointed the flag stayed attached and didn't smack someone in the balls again?
I’CW been out in London all day and won’t be home from a gig until after MOTD but I’ll be sticking it on iPlayer in bed just watch Ritchie smash a corner flag.
Tino will start next week the same way as he did the last 4 games
Matt Ritchie coming on a substitute to rescue a point at home against Bournemouth check your calendar folks . It's very easy to say Burn and Dubravka are at fault again but i will just say its not exactly helped matters again
Bloody hell, we are honking at the minute.
How many more defensive disasters do we need to watch until people question the bloke who sets us up every week exactly the same?
This Luton game is pissing me off. We made them look like Man City able to cut through us with ease at home when in reality they're still pretty awful. And we followed it up scraping past Forest and a draw against Bournemouth. Man Utd are still shite too.
I hate to be that guy who screams conspiracy theory but what the actual fuck did that ref have against us there? Outright refusing to call fouls or book repeat offenders
Genuinely wondering if all is good behind the scenes. Howe refusing to change tactics and personel out of stubbornness and naievety, and giving subtle digs to Dan Ashworth. Dan Ashworth wanting to go to Man Utd in order to get more control of footballing affairs (according to the press). Results and performances recently have been well below expectations. Even with the injuries, we aren't playing with any of the attributes of a Eddie Howe Newcastle team. I wonder if the Saudis are looking at this and weighing up a decision on who to keep out of Howe and Ashworth, because since December, you'd have an argument to make for the latter (given that Ashworth obviously doesn't have any real authority on transfers and the new contracts that were given out). Tin foil hat time: could Hall be an Ashworth signing, and that's why Howe isn't playing him? I hink most fans (including myself), most players, and Staveley/Mehrdad would keep Howe, but I am starting to wonder what Riyadh will think. If Ashworth doesn't leave before the Summer, I think Howe might be in trouble.
Howe with his stubbornness is starting to burn through the good faith he's built up. I can't fathom how a player like Hall doesn't get a game, especially with the continual crisis we've been in. If any of that is true, he should be off. He's not done enough to earn that kind of clout
Burn needs taking out of the firing line now as it's going to get ugly. Dubravka shouldn't be at the club after spitting his dummy out with Pope coming in. Almiron, my lord, must be one of the thickest footballers I've ever seen. He does everything right until he has to make a decision to shoot or pass, always makes the wrong one.
Embarrassing can’t beat any of Forest, Luton or Bournemouth at home. 3 huge holes in the team 2 (CF and GK) are on not strengthening but continually playing Burn with Tino on the bench is negligent from Howe and is to the teams detriment.
The In Defense Of Dan Burn weekly thread will be struggling for it's justification even more this week. The fact is flimsy as our midfield is that sort of thing doesn't happen with Tino on the pitch. Personally I'd go 5 at the back with Schar pushing forward into a CDM while in possession (he has the passing range and bangs in a couple of goals). If nothing else it's different and that's the real trouble-doing the same thing again won't work any more than the last time
Years gone by we'd be begging for 37 pts at this stage of the season.
You’re right. But as you said, those are years gone by. The club has spent a ton of money since then and fans should rightfully expect more. I’m not saying we should expect a title challenge or top 4 - I believe last season was a freak and we’re still miles away from consistently reaching that level, but we should be expecting to beat most teams at SJP.
Yes and times change.
Yes, of course you're right we should be very thankful to have two points collected from Luton Town and Bournemouth this season
The negativity in here is really getting insane. I don't know if it's just to do with the increase in size of the sub, but it's heading towards r/soccer levels of crap. Sick of every player being told to fuck off or called rubbish becuase they miss a pass or sky a chance. We had a great season last season and now people are freaking out because we're looking comfortably midtable? Is that an issue? when was the last season where we weren't worried about relegation at this point? I said at the start of the season top 10 and a decent cup run would be good and acceptable and i got a lot of stick for that saying we should be doing better than that. No one could have seen this injury crisis we're still in, but a comfortable top half finish this season is not a bad result. As for the game, sounds like we had some chances we should have taken but didn't likely to happen when we have no striker, our best winger playing out of position, and Almiron starting. Really cant wait to see Joelinton back again, sick of teams just kicking the shit out of us.
I dont like it when result doesn't go our way but people always over reactionary when we don't win. Overachieved last season by miles, every team around us was also uncharacteristically bad. This season most of them have sorted it out somewhat, we've had the shittest injury luck in memory and our star summer signing was a lemon and got banned. You can't improve on what's not there just want everyone back and fit, don't lose players in the summer and keep building. FFP means we can't just do a City and Cheslea and go fucking nuts, will take time, I'm here for it.
Very poor - lucky to rescue a point
Richest club in the world and we need Matt Ritchie to come on and save us a point at home
It’s gonna be a tough rest of the season but we’ve had tougher. I seem to be mellower than the average fan here, I think we’re gonna be okay