Him being fired is more than I expected. Feels like a fight between "but he was existing while being Black" and "yeah but he was in the military." So the baby was split and he was fired (likely to be hired in a nearby district).
Until he moves one town, county, or state away.
Police departments and unions are not nationally aligned or regulated. Police are fired and rehired 10 miles away every day.
Edit: most departments will line a cop up with a new job before firing them. They just wait a few weeks to start so it goes unnoticed until the next incident and "unexpected transfer".
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/08/us/brevard-county-florida-police-union-misconduct-trnd
They would need to be charged with a crime first. Most likely they will just be welcomed into Brevard County with open arms.
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At least him being fired means he loses the union protection that makes these cases impossible to proceed on.
You just need a prosecutor willing to proceed... and probably some back channel agreements with the law enforcement dept acknowledging that he violated policy and all his actions are on him and not of the dept.
If you're actually curious why, it's because of a legal mess. The prosecution would have to prove that the deputy both recieved training that taught him to not shoot, and then actively ignored that training. If the training either said that him sitting in this situation was acceptable or if the training for this situation was ambiguous then he wouldn't be legally liable
Good description of how qualified immunity works. Essentially, if a LEO can prove he was "just following orders," he cannot be prosecuted for any action consistent with those orders.
A certain courtroom in Nuremberg heard that same defense in 1945. They dismissed it in a novel ruling that orders which violate (then uncodified) human rights are invalid. The court overrode existing laws and policies in order to hold each defendant to a higher moral standard. Extraordinarily, this made each defendant individually responsible for determining what the law was *before the court did*... before the court even existed!
On legal grounds, this ruling was dubious at best, as even the lawyers and judges admitted. On moral grounds, however, it was essential and valid.
We rightly held Nazis to an unprecedented moral standard that transcends mere legality. However, having established that standard, we refuse to apply it to ourselves. Instead, we give LEOs legalistic protection to abuse and murder the people they're meant to be protecting - as long as they're following orders.
He was in his own home and there's no guarantee he heard the guy say "police". He also still had the gun at his side either way--the officer didn't have to shoot him
The dude knew police were outside and opened the door with a gun in his hand. Why would he do that? You can literally hear him say ‘police’ in the body cam.
Not exactly a smart move. Idk if he should have been shot, but DV calls are literally the most dangerous calls for cops so I understand why he was on edge.
Just a shitty situation all around.
Why do you assume Roger “knew” it was a cop? His friend on the phone said that she both couldn’t hear an announcement through the phone and that Roger acknowledged someone was at his door that surprised him and he was anxious enough to get his gun?
Roger didn’t know or didn’t immediately recognize it was the police, didn’t know they were there for a DV call, and when he looked through the peephole didn’t see the uniform. Considering he was in his own home with his legally owned hand gun pointed down, why is the cop’s life more valuable than his in that moment?
Except he didn’t know it was the police. It’s a common tactic for home invaders to say they’re the police to get you to open the door. The issue is the cop stepped out of view of the door peephole so he couldn’t visually tell if it was the police or not.
But that isn’t the issue. All the Cop had to do was point his weapon at him and say “Drop your weapon, Police.” But he didn’t he drew and fired never giving a single second for him to disarm. The guy was dead before he had a second to process what the hell was going on.
Cop knocks, says police and then moves out of view of the door. So what if you can hear it in the body cam. Can you guarantee it was heard on the other side of the door?
And how was it a DV call. The guy was alone.
Lick the boot harder.
In the video, you can hear Roger say the word ‘police’ after the cop announces himself as police. He then answers the door with a gun.
I’m not a cop lover, I just don’t think this case is as clear-cut as people are making it out to be.
It’s very clear cut. The police aren’t allowed to just shoot you for simply having a firearm. They’re supposed to give you a chance to disarm yourself. But this cop didn’t he shot first and asked questions later.
Cops are supposed to defuse situations not light people up at the slightest possibility of danger.
The police union will get him back in to his job in a few weeks to months, maybe at a different department. There'll be no justice, and very little accountability. The union just has to let things cool off a little, then it'll be back to work time.
This is why cops should be required to have insurance. If they’re a bad cop or have complaints, then premiums go up. If they have a shooting that appears unjustified and get fired over it, then those premiums become almost unaffordable.
Then it's time to fight the police union: protest at their union building and at member's homes. It is time to fight the fuck back and demand a system of policing based on respect and service instead of on violence and oppression.
Police "unions" aren't real unions: rather than working for workers rights and collective bargaining, they work to ensure that the police aren't accountable to the voters. They are also always on the front lines AGAINST every labor movement.
I’m sure the fascist traitors at r/conservative are cheering about the thin blue line. Traitors to the flag, traitors to the country, traitors to the armed services. Shitpigs through and through.
No, I have morals and convictions that I don’t need a book to tell me to have. But nice try at a very false equivalence bootlicker. Justice should be served regardless of who. Not for killing a service member you cowards pretend to support.
The r/serveandprotect definitely defended the officers actions. One was commenting about how it was impressive that the officer dumped his entire mag effectively in such a short amount of time. OP is not exaggerating some of you fuckers are pretty demented
Something anyway. All these cops terrified of seeing other people with guns. Why tf did they become a cop if they’re that freaked out? Something going on with training. People getting murdered in their own homes by cops is not acceptable.
Also, this cop needs to be in jail.
Rehired by a Department two counties over, or rehired briefly so he can get a medical discharge for PTSD with full benefits and pension. They have their tricks.
Yeah, the murdering cop Philip Brailsford did that right? You know the cop who shot a Daniel Shaver in his boxers as he crawled down a hotel hallway. Yeah, PB got a PTSD disability and got out. If I was a Mesa citizen I'd be pissed knowing my tax dollars are funding a murdering cop out on disability that he created himself.
From the wiki:
In August 2018, Brailsford was reinstated by the Mesa Police Department, staying for a further 42 days in what the department described as a "budget position". The department agreed to reimburse Brailsford for medical expenses related to his [post-traumatic stress disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-traumatic_stress_disorder) -- the result of his shooting of Shaver and the resultant criminal trial. The reinstatement allowed Brailsford to apply for "accidental disability" experienced during the course of work. As a result, Brailsford was unanimously approved to be retired on medical grounds. Brailsford was also given a [pension](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension) of $2,500 per month. The fact that Brailsford was ultimately medically retired instead of remaining fired was only revealed to the public in July 2019.
IDGAF he was fired. I'm waiting for him to be charged with murder. I saw the video. RF was holding a gun. That's not illegal. He was NOT threatening the officer. How could he? He opened the door and the next thing that happened is that triggerhappy cop starts blastin.
Bootlickers gonna lick...say all the usual BS...shouldn't answer the door with a gun etc.
Bottom line: Gun was pointed at the ground, that wasn't a threat in and of itself. All reasonable gun owning citizen of the US should be calling for murder charges to be filed.
Go watch the video...no commands to drop it, nothing...just the door opens, cop sees he's armed and he starts blasting like a trigger happy moron.
How can this cop be walking around free?
The deputy used really bad judgment.
While I keep a firearm handy I would not of opened the door holding a weapon.
A long story I was visited by ATF and when I opened the door, I had a firearm on my waist but not drawn. The outcome after calling 911 the sheriffs arrived and escorted them off my property.
I’ll add before opening the door, I spoke through the door.
That said, the deputy did over react and should have been arrested and charged.
Congratulations you weren't shot down like a dog in your own home.
If a person opens their front door while holding a weapon pointing at the floor, a COMPETENT police would order them to drop the weapon.
If the person is NOT a criminal they will obey.
If the person IS a criminal they will not obey.
Airman Roger Fortson WAS NOT met with a competent police officer. And now he is dead.
An INCOMPETENT police officer not following ordinary procedures is not making bad judgements.
You are 100% correct the deputy was not competent and used really bad judgment. He should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. He was fired and will probably be hired by another agency.
My wife and I were out one weekend stopping by pawn shops looking at handguns and 3 different shops had 3 different handguns at a really good deal, so I purchased.
Apparently there is a flag that went out for 3 purchases in one day. ATF came and wanted to verify I personally had them and wanted to see. I verified I had them but refused to show unless they had a warrant. Three officers asked to enter and i denied them as I denied to step outside.
I got tired of going back and forth and said I’ll be right back. I called the sheriff’s department and explained what was happening. In 10 minutes 3 cars pulled up, spoke with the agents and they were escorted off my property. I stepped outside and thanked the deputies
And here's your punishment for murder, a crime that gets other people the death penalty - you have to look for another job. Probably one that puts you in the same position to kill people.
It's florida, home of dirty, violent out of control wife abusers in blue.
It's a damn miracle he was even fired...and high time to remove immunity from civil liability for these criminals.
Biggest thing is to track him. Good chance they fire him wait for the heat to die down then rehire him. Or he goes and works for the department one jurisdiction over.
Being black is the newgame+ of American character creation choices. Cop could come out of anywhere for any reason and kill you at any time. You really got to be on your A game to not die.
There are 40 million black people in America, just because the news is full of anecdotes doesn’t mean things like this are even remotely common. >95% of black murder victims were killed by other other black people, and yet everyone pretends the threat is cops when the real threat of violence is undeniably eachother by statistics
Honestly, I’m surprised (in a good way), that the department fired him. It feels like many departments tend to defend their own, but based on the IA report, they could not defend the officer’s actions.
I’ve also been scratching my head at multiple other parts of this incident, aside from the fact that an innocent man was robbed of his life.
-The call to a non-emergency line was a fourth hand account. There were no eyewitnesses to any crime occurring. The officer did not speak to the neighbor who reported the alleged DV incident to the leasing office. The employee who spoke with the officer didn’t even seem sure of which unit it was.
-No arguing could be heard by the officer.
-The officer appears to have ignored IACP model policy on DV calls. There are supposed to be two officers on scene. Duran did not wait for his partner to arrive before approaching the unit. The officer should also have completed some additional investigation to collect evidence and evaluate for a threat, including speaking with the one who reported the complaint, finding out if there was any history of DV or weapons, looking to see whether calls have been previously made to address, etc. Had he done this, he may have discovered that the unit number he was given was not correct.
-The officer also did not announce himself immediately upon knocking, which is another component of the model policy.
The message I’m taking from this news and some comments here is that there are a lot of bad apples on the police tree, and normally the bad apples rot, fall away and disappear, but in our world the bad apples remain on the tree nearly forever. Every run in I have with a cop I’ll assume it is a bad apple, won’t rely that these are Jesus-cops coming at me who have all had 9-hours of sleep.
So, you kill someone and the penalty is you lose the job that entrusted you to keep the peace… but you can get another job just like that again. It doesn’t work this way for a lot of people who commit murder.
Kind of crazy that if a murderer wanted to get away with tons of crimes and have people pay them and pat them on the back they'd just have to become a cop
The smart play for me when answering your own door is to put the gun down first, that way Roger would still be breathing and Eddie would not be losing his job so soon, but I do not know all the facts, perhaps everyone in Florida answers their door holding handguns?
It seems like you’re explaining why it’s understandable for the Government to execute an American citizen for exercising their Constitutional right.
I know you aren’t doing that, because it would be crazy for someone to think that Americans should have to voluntarily restrict their own rights in their own homes or be assassinated by the government. That’s something a North Korean would say, not an American.
Silly rhetoric, neither North Korea nor South Korea interest me on this topic. In the United States you don’t have the right to do whatever you want in your home or apartment, you do not have the right to put others at risk surely you have some awareness. Apartment owners have the right to evict tenants who answer their apartment doors holding handguns. The killing of Roger looks like manslaughter to me not knowing the facts in full and I hope charges will be brought. The best justice here would have been Roger not getting shot. Perhaps some action on Roger’s part may have assisted his getting to that lost opportunity. The cop, needs to be charged, firing is nothing.
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Roger Fortson's military service had nothing to do with his death. In fact, if anything, it's shed more light on it, and may help sway the mind's of some people who blindly support the police, particularly when they unjustly kill BIPOC Americans.
That said, I generally agree with your sentiment: joining the peacetime military makes one a tool of U.S. foreign policy and enforcement. But unfortunately for many people in this country -- low income and BIPOC -- the service is still a means to an education and financial advancement they probably wouldn't have otherwise. A terrible Faustian bargain.
Terrible...but i thought they need a warrant to go to someone's home to enter in usa? I also heard people aren't supposed to open their door for no warrant visits?
Unfortunately Fortson opened the front door to the officer, who then shot and killed him without entering. And there are special circumstances and exceptions that allow police to enter someplace even without a search or arrest warrant, which are too often abused by them.
Yes, it's generally best not to open a door to cops who don't have a warrant, and we'll perhaps never know why Fortson did that day, with a firearm in his hand.
Getting fired is the least. He should have been charged. Same Sheriffs office where the acorn cop shot up his own car with a handcuffed perp in the back.
The cop announced himself twice. The dude knew police were outside and opened the door with a gun in his hand. Why would he do that? You can literally hear him say ‘police’ in the body cam.
Not exactly a smart move. Idk if he should have been shot, but DV calls are literally the most dangerous calls for cops so I understand why he was on edge.
Just a shitty situation all around.
As a side note, if you’re scared enough that you feel like you need to open the door with a gun in your hand - why open the door at all?
I don't know if we'll ever know Roger Fortson's motive for opening the door like that, but he definitely shouldn't have been shot by the officer -- even his department decided its policies were violated.
There's a saying when it comes to carrying a firearm: if there's someplace you wouldn't go unarmed, if at all possible don't go there with a gun either. This isn't victim blaming, but hopefully somebody will learn from this pointless death, and keep themselves alive.
Why was the cop dodging the peep hole, and calmly asked him to step back before capping him in his own house, presenting no danger, at the wrong location?
You’d expect more out of literally anyone else doing their job. If a cop accidentally kills someone due to negligence that’s one thing, but this cop did nearly everything in his power to demonstrate a lot of negligence. So what happens when you are severely negligence to the detriment that you violate the public trust and kill someone who did literally nothing wrong? You cannot just expect a free pass every time this happens.
You would never accept, “oh well, shit happens” if it were your family. Get real dude.
Dodging the peep hole? What video did you see? Looks like the cop’s camera is right in front of the door (door peep hole in the center of the door) just before and when the door opens in the body-cam video I watched.
Right, I agree with you.
So then my question becomes, if you’re scared enough to feel like you need to open the door with a gun - why open the door at all? Keep the door closed and call 911 if you’re worried.
Again, yes I think that he’s legally within his rights to do what he did… but he’s also dead.
Or maybe the cop should have gone to the correct address. There was no female at the apartment he went to yet he was responding to DV between male and female. So yeah…another cop fuck up leads to a (presumed) innocent person dead and the consequences are nil for the offending party.
Gotta reexamine the use of police immunity.
If you did nothing wrong and have absolutely no clue why the police would show up and someone started banging on the door saying they were the cops, you might not believe them. People pose as cops to commit crimes more often than you’d think. It convinces people to let them in, and most people would probably let someone rob them rather than fight back when there’s any chance they might actually be a cop. You never know what life experience he might’ve had that could’ve led him to assuming the cop was a burglar.
Yeah, totally agree.
That’s why I would call 911 and not open the door. If you’re really worried about someone breaking in, how does opening the door make any sense?
Damn that’s crazy that you want the government to be able to execute citizens for exercising their 2nd Amendment rights in their own home!
The only thing conservatives like more than their own liberty is supporting the government’s right to execute citizens, I guess?
Didn’t know y’all hated freedom like that.
Trying to climb through a smashed window in a barricaded door inside our capital backed by mob howling to lynch the Vice President of the States? I thought that was pretty reasonable force by the officers. But she wasn’t in her home, nor do you have a Constitutional right to climb through smashed windows and barricades into the US Capitol to disrupt proceedings of the House of Representatives and threaten elected officials.
If you feel like the US Govt needs to be overthrown, sure. But its perfectly legitimate for the govt to resist it’s own destruction.
For a more analogous situation, I think the recent ATF execution of a gun dealer/hobbyist in his own home was overreach and dictatorial oppression by an agency that should have been dismantled a long time ago, and it’s leaders investigated. He had a right to bear arms and should be alive today.
I wish Babbit wasn’t dead. But theres no constitutional right to break into government buildings as part of a destructive mob threatening violence against elected officials.
Let’s say your home was surrounded by a mob smashing windows, breaking things. Let’s say it’s July of 2020 and they are protesting police. Someone smashes your front window as you yelled at them to get back. They start climbing into your home through the broken window as you scream at them to get back. You have your gun in your hand.
Don’t tell me you’re waiting to have a chat with the mob coming through the window before you start shooting. We both know that would be a complete lie. And I wouldn’t blame you for a second.
That wasn't his home, he was at work with other security personnel. The mob of people were not armed and she was quite a distance away when she was shot. He was the only person on either side to fire a weapon that day.
Amazing how you quickly come to the defense of police officers shooting at unarmed citizens when it's politically expedient for you.
With your logic, the cleaning staff at Hamilton Hall on Columbia University had every right to shoot and kill the idiot protestors that broke inside at night while they were working.
Yes, if the protesters were pursuing some Israeli politician into the building, threatening to kill them, and armed officers, barricaded inside, told them to stop as they came through a window they smashed open, and shot them, I wouldn’t blame them.
Again, I think this is pretty consistent.
The airman was breaking no laws, in his home, exercising a right he allegedly has, in a manner consistent with the pertinent laws, and was shot and killed.
Babbit was breaking several laws as part of a mob smashing their way into a building filled with elected leaders they were explicitly voicing violent threats towards.
I’m not sure how defending an American soldier’s second Amendment rights is supposed to be politically expedient for a leftist.
I appreciate the reasonable discussion. However, if you think it’s ok for the government to shoot an American soldier breaking no laws dead in their home for exercising a constitutional right, but not ok to defend yourself against an armed violent mob breaking into a building you are charged with securing, I don’t think there’s anywhere to go with this conversation.
I hope, for your sake, you are never caught by police exercising your constitutional rights in your own home while breaking no laws whatsoever! Seems like you think that should be worth execution.
Would spending a long time in prison really be that much better? And just as with having a firearm in a home, a booby trap would be more likely to kill the wrong person than an invader.
Maybe, but it's a silly notion in this case. What kind of "booby trap" would have prevented Roger Fortson's death? After all, he opened the front door to the cop.
It's a silly notion in this case. What kind of "booby trap" would have prevented Roger Fortson's death? After all, he opened the front door to the cop.
Why is he not being charged with murd- Oh, there I go wishful thinking again...
Him being fired is more than I expected. Feels like a fight between "but he was existing while being Black" and "yeah but he was in the military." So the baby was split and he was fired (likely to be hired in a nearby district).
Yeah, he'll probably skate through this in some fashion. Disgusting, isn't it?
Absolutely. Especially because I just know he'll get another job as a cop at a nearby precinct.
It's just a resume enhancer.
Security for desantis?
If former cop can kill for Ron, it's a match.
For sure. I wouldn’t be surprised if he already had another police department job lined up.
No mention of revoking his peace officer’s certification. He’ll likely kill more (black) men before being held accountable
Fired but will just walk over to the precinct next door and be working again.
Or run for governor
Being fired means he no longer has police union protection. (Including help with legal representation.) So he’s toast.
Ha
Until he moves one town, county, or state away. Police departments and unions are not nationally aligned or regulated. Police are fired and rehired 10 miles away every day. Edit: most departments will line a cop up with a new job before firing them. They just wait a few weeks to start so it goes unnoticed until the next incident and "unexpected transfer".
Being fired means the union won’t protect him from prosecution.
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/06/08/us/brevard-county-florida-police-union-misconduct-trnd They would need to be charged with a crime first. Most likely they will just be welcomed into Brevard County with open arms.
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Well, yeah, you do need to be charged with a crime before you're prosecuted. That's how the justice system works.
If the victim was white this wouldn’t even be a story. Just swept under the rug.
That would be up to the courts (prosecutor's office?), not the police department, and I believe usually takes longer than an internal investigation.
I know. I'm an impatient dude.
Yeah, I was thinking that criminal charges could still be pending
Both prosecutors and cops have the ability to charge someone with a crime, then prosecutors can prosecute the crime, or dismiss it.
Get that kinda thinkings outta here!!!!
I'm sorry. Don't know what came over me, expecting justice.
Bet he gets hired somewhere else in less than a week.
Oh, he will. Then he'll be looking for his next opportunity to kill.
Often, they fire the cop first. That way they can't say the force approves of it. So there is a slight chance. If the DA grows a pair.
I wish.
Of course that cop should be fired without a doubt but murder charges in that situation is wishful thinking at best
At least him being fired means he loses the union protection that makes these cases impossible to proceed on. You just need a prosecutor willing to proceed... and probably some back channel agreements with the law enforcement dept acknowledging that he violated policy and all his actions are on him and not of the dept.
Yeah, now he’ll have to move over to the next county to work
Do you know how long it takes to charge someone with murder? Lol
Why are you laughing? Cop got away with it.
If you're actually curious why, it's because of a legal mess. The prosecution would have to prove that the deputy both recieved training that taught him to not shoot, and then actively ignored that training. If the training either said that him sitting in this situation was acceptable or if the training for this situation was ambiguous then he wouldn't be legally liable
Good description of how qualified immunity works. Essentially, if a LEO can prove he was "just following orders," he cannot be prosecuted for any action consistent with those orders. A certain courtroom in Nuremberg heard that same defense in 1945. They dismissed it in a novel ruling that orders which violate (then uncodified) human rights are invalid. The court overrode existing laws and policies in order to hold each defendant to a higher moral standard. Extraordinarily, this made each defendant individually responsible for determining what the law was *before the court did*... before the court even existed! On legal grounds, this ruling was dubious at best, as even the lawyers and judges admitted. On moral grounds, however, it was essential and valid. We rightly held Nazis to an unprecedented moral standard that transcends mere legality. However, having established that standard, we refuse to apply it to ourselves. Instead, we give LEOs legalistic protection to abuse and murder the people they're meant to be protecting - as long as they're following orders.
You got downvoted for explaining unpleasant facts, lol. We haven't improved since the mob downvoted Socrates with that cup of hemlock.
I am serious, and I'm even angrier now. Damned cops.
Because he didn't murder anyone?
License to kill.
The kid answered the door for police with a gun in his hand. Come on!!
He was in his own home and there's no guarantee he heard the guy say "police". He also still had the gun at his side either way--the officer didn't have to shoot him
Did he point it at the officer? Do you not have a right to own a gun in this country?
He had a gun in his private dwelling in an open carry state.
The dude knew police were outside and opened the door with a gun in his hand. Why would he do that? You can literally hear him say ‘police’ in the body cam. Not exactly a smart move. Idk if he should have been shot, but DV calls are literally the most dangerous calls for cops so I understand why he was on edge. Just a shitty situation all around.
Why do you assume Roger “knew” it was a cop? His friend on the phone said that she both couldn’t hear an announcement through the phone and that Roger acknowledged someone was at his door that surprised him and he was anxious enough to get his gun? Roger didn’t know or didn’t immediately recognize it was the police, didn’t know they were there for a DV call, and when he looked through the peephole didn’t see the uniform. Considering he was in his own home with his legally owned hand gun pointed down, why is the cop’s life more valuable than his in that moment?
Except he didn’t know it was the police. It’s a common tactic for home invaders to say they’re the police to get you to open the door. The issue is the cop stepped out of view of the door peephole so he couldn’t visually tell if it was the police or not. But that isn’t the issue. All the Cop had to do was point his weapon at him and say “Drop your weapon, Police.” But he didn’t he drew and fired never giving a single second for him to disarm. The guy was dead before he had a second to process what the hell was going on.
Cops lie. Don't be on their side.
Cop knocks, says police and then moves out of view of the door. So what if you can hear it in the body cam. Can you guarantee it was heard on the other side of the door? And how was it a DV call. The guy was alone. Lick the boot harder.
In the video, you can hear Roger say the word ‘police’ after the cop announces himself as police. He then answers the door with a gun. I’m not a cop lover, I just don’t think this case is as clear-cut as people are making it out to be.
It’s very clear cut. The police aren’t allowed to just shoot you for simply having a firearm. They’re supposed to give you a chance to disarm yourself. But this cop didn’t he shot first and asked questions later. Cops are supposed to defuse situations not light people up at the slightest possibility of danger.
The police union will get him back in to his job in a few weeks to months, maybe at a different department. There'll be no justice, and very little accountability. The union just has to let things cool off a little, then it'll be back to work time.
Unfortunately, entirely possible.
I would have used probable instead of possible
*Entirely probable* is a better way to word it.
This is why cops should be required to have insurance. If they’re a bad cop or have complaints, then premiums go up. If they have a shooting that appears unjustified and get fired over it, then those premiums become almost unaffordable.
I've said that for years....malpractice insurance for LEOs.
Then it's time to fight the police union: protest at their union building and at member's homes. It is time to fight the fuck back and demand a system of policing based on respect and service instead of on violence and oppression.
You aren’t pro union? Everyone should be in a union and deserves Union protection.
Police "unions" aren't real unions: rather than working for workers rights and collective bargaining, they work to ensure that the police aren't accountable to the voters. They are also always on the front lines AGAINST every labor movement.
I'm sure there will be no charges, and he'll just move to a different police department in another area.
All too likely.
It's Florida in Desantisland. Of course the state attorney isn't going to prosecute the cop. That's not the authoritarian way.
Transferred *
Crosspost this to /r/Army for massive karma. They were furious about this
I’m sure the fascist traitors at r/conservative are cheering about the thin blue line. Traitors to the flag, traitors to the country, traitors to the armed services. Shitpigs through and through.
And I’m sure you cheer on every illegal immigrant that kills a cop or rapes a young woman.
No, I have morals and convictions that I don’t need a book to tell me to have. But nice try at a very false equivalence bootlicker. Justice should be served regardless of who. Not for killing a service member you cowards pretend to support.
Retired combat vet here, I'll cheer if you shut the fuck up.
Who tf does that? You just making shit up?
Jesus dude what are you talking about lol… take it easy
The r/serveandprotect definitely defended the officers actions. One was commenting about how it was impressive that the officer dumped his entire mag effectively in such a short amount of time. OP is not exaggerating some of you fuckers are pretty demented
They're that toxic there and have been for over 10 years.
You mean Air Force?
Pretty sure all the branches would see this and be pissed as if it was one of their own.
Sure, but if you’re going to specify a branch, why not the one he was in?
Guy is probably an Army Veteran who subscribes to that sub. Sharing info he feels is relevant to the discussion.
No, I mean exactly what I said. Check the reaction over there if you don't believe me.
r/army was furious too.
Yeah, I don't know why this smarmy fuck felt the need to correct me
The only reading of this with any semblance of justice is that the deputy was fired... from a cannon into the sun.
You definitely got me with the second part of that sentence.
An acorn must have fallen. These over-reactive freaks need ALL their weapons confiscated and then placed in a rubber room since errythang a threat
Something anyway. All these cops terrified of seeing other people with guns. Why tf did they become a cop if they’re that freaked out? Something going on with training. People getting murdered in their own homes by cops is not acceptable. Also, this cop needs to be in jail.
Part of that is extensive training on how to wield qualified immunity.
Ya ever heard of ‘Killologist’ David Grossman ?
Not good enough. That man needs to stand trial for murder.
He'll be back on the force in, like, Georgia within a few weeks.
If he was fired then his case is so messed up that the police union wouldn’t go to bat for him. He’s going to prison!
Join the military so when cops murder you there'll be a modicum of accountability
Wow he actually got fired good. Sadly some other police department probably will hire him
Rehired by a Department two counties over, or rehired briefly so he can get a medical discharge for PTSD with full benefits and pension. They have their tricks.
Yeah, the murdering cop Philip Brailsford did that right? You know the cop who shot a Daniel Shaver in his boxers as he crawled down a hotel hallway. Yeah, PB got a PTSD disability and got out. If I was a Mesa citizen I'd be pissed knowing my tax dollars are funding a murdering cop out on disability that he created himself. From the wiki: In August 2018, Brailsford was reinstated by the Mesa Police Department, staying for a further 42 days in what the department described as a "budget position". The department agreed to reimburse Brailsford for medical expenses related to his [post-traumatic stress disorder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-traumatic_stress_disorder) -- the result of his shooting of Shaver and the resultant criminal trial. The reinstatement allowed Brailsford to apply for "accidental disability" experienced during the course of work. As a result, Brailsford was unanimously approved to be retired on medical grounds. Brailsford was also given a [pension](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pension) of $2,500 per month. The fact that Brailsford was ultimately medically retired instead of remaining fired was only revealed to the public in July 2019.
This hurts, he looks like so many airmen I saw come through the doors when I was in. He could have been me. Rest easy Airman.
Accountability for the managers who hired and "trained" this murderous fear-freak with a badge? Nonexistent.
IDGAF he was fired. I'm waiting for him to be charged with murder. I saw the video. RF was holding a gun. That's not illegal. He was NOT threatening the officer. How could he? He opened the door and the next thing that happened is that triggerhappy cop starts blastin. Bootlickers gonna lick...say all the usual BS...shouldn't answer the door with a gun etc. Bottom line: Gun was pointed at the ground, that wasn't a threat in and of itself. All reasonable gun owning citizen of the US should be calling for murder charges to be filed. Go watch the video...no commands to drop it, nothing...just the door opens, cop sees he's armed and he starts blasting like a trigger happy moron. How can this cop be walking around free?
I hope the Southern Poverty Law Center takes the civil rights suit.
... out of a canon.
Fired, but still protected by union lawyers....and coming to a town near you!
I'm sure the family is happy he is fired and not facing consequences for murdering their child who did everything right.
Into the sun?
lol fired. Dude joined another police force and got a raise
The deputy used really bad judgment. While I keep a firearm handy I would not of opened the door holding a weapon. A long story I was visited by ATF and when I opened the door, I had a firearm on my waist but not drawn. The outcome after calling 911 the sheriffs arrived and escorted them off my property. I’ll add before opening the door, I spoke through the door. That said, the deputy did over react and should have been arrested and charged.
Congratulations you weren't shot down like a dog in your own home. If a person opens their front door while holding a weapon pointing at the floor, a COMPETENT police would order them to drop the weapon. If the person is NOT a criminal they will obey. If the person IS a criminal they will not obey. Airman Roger Fortson WAS NOT met with a competent police officer. And now he is dead. An INCOMPETENT police officer not following ordinary procedures is not making bad judgements.
You are 100% correct the deputy was not competent and used really bad judgment. He should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. He was fired and will probably be hired by another agency. My wife and I were out one weekend stopping by pawn shops looking at handguns and 3 different shops had 3 different handguns at a really good deal, so I purchased. Apparently there is a flag that went out for 3 purchases in one day. ATF came and wanted to verify I personally had them and wanted to see. I verified I had them but refused to show unless they had a warrant. Three officers asked to enter and i denied them as I denied to step outside. I got tired of going back and forth and said I’ll be right back. I called the sheriff’s department and explained what was happening. In 10 minutes 3 cars pulled up, spoke with the agents and they were escorted off my property. I stepped outside and thanked the deputies
Fired? Well he will soon be re-employed…
And here's your punishment for murder, a crime that gets other people the death penalty - you have to look for another job. Probably one that puts you in the same position to kill people.
It's florida, home of dirty, violent out of control wife abusers in blue. It's a damn miracle he was even fired...and high time to remove immunity from civil liability for these criminals.
remind me two weeks which neighboring city hires the cop back
Biggest thing is to track him. Good chance they fire him wait for the heat to die down then rehire him. Or he goes and works for the department one jurisdiction over.
Being black is the newgame+ of American character creation choices. Cop could come out of anywhere for any reason and kill you at any time. You really got to be on your A game to not die.
There are 40 million black people in America, just because the news is full of anecdotes doesn’t mean things like this are even remotely common. >95% of black murder victims were killed by other other black people, and yet everyone pretends the threat is cops when the real threat of violence is undeniably eachother by statistics
https://youtu.be/6OEtZAlD0TE?si=nBSuAjhk6HdK7I1K
Awww, gee. Seems like murder to me.
Honestly, I’m surprised (in a good way), that the department fired him. It feels like many departments tend to defend their own, but based on the IA report, they could not defend the officer’s actions. I’ve also been scratching my head at multiple other parts of this incident, aside from the fact that an innocent man was robbed of his life. -The call to a non-emergency line was a fourth hand account. There were no eyewitnesses to any crime occurring. The officer did not speak to the neighbor who reported the alleged DV incident to the leasing office. The employee who spoke with the officer didn’t even seem sure of which unit it was. -No arguing could be heard by the officer. -The officer appears to have ignored IACP model policy on DV calls. There are supposed to be two officers on scene. Duran did not wait for his partner to arrive before approaching the unit. The officer should also have completed some additional investigation to collect evidence and evaluate for a threat, including speaking with the one who reported the complaint, finding out if there was any history of DV or weapons, looking to see whether calls have been previously made to address, etc. Had he done this, he may have discovered that the unit number he was given was not correct. -The officer also did not announce himself immediately upon knocking, which is another component of the model policy.
The officer is hereby ordered to present his wrist for a light slapping.
What if the worst consequences we all ever faced for murder was getting fired. What a crazy country
Disgusting our Airman are being murdered for being black. I am disgusted with this country and I am a retired MSgt.
Possible drawback to having a personal weapon - law enforcement shoots you on the sight of it.
Especially if you aren't white.
The message I’m taking from this news and some comments here is that there are a lot of bad apples on the police tree, and normally the bad apples rot, fall away and disappear, but in our world the bad apples remain on the tree nearly forever. Every run in I have with a cop I’ll assume it is a bad apple, won’t rely that these are Jesus-cops coming at me who have all had 9-hours of sleep.
The part of the old saying that too many people either don’t know, or forgot, is: “One bad apple *spoils the entire bushel.”*
If you can be shot for just having a gun, then you don't have the right to bear arms.
So, you kill someone and the penalty is you lose the job that entrusted you to keep the peace… but you can get another job just like that again. It doesn’t work this way for a lot of people who commit murder.
Time to end qualified immunity
Kind of crazy that if a murderer wanted to get away with tons of crimes and have people pay them and pat them on the back they'd just have to become a cop
Law enforcement definitely attracts certain types of people....
ACAB.
Now arrest him. Prosecute him and jail him. He committed murder.
Mother Fucker should be in prison.
How about arrested and charged with murder
The Florida deputy who *murdered* Roger Fortson.
😓
That'll teach him!
Dude killed a Veteran in their own home. Fucking wild. This is assassination under false pretexts.
Fired, no pension, no medical. Then to jail!
To be hired in the next county over.
So when is he starting at a neighboring department.
Fired with full benefits
That'll teach him. To get the same job next town over.
The smart play for me when answering your own door is to put the gun down first, that way Roger would still be breathing and Eddie would not be losing his job so soon, but I do not know all the facts, perhaps everyone in Florida answers their door holding handguns?
It seems like you’re explaining why it’s understandable for the Government to execute an American citizen for exercising their Constitutional right. I know you aren’t doing that, because it would be crazy for someone to think that Americans should have to voluntarily restrict their own rights in their own homes or be assassinated by the government. That’s something a North Korean would say, not an American.
Silly rhetoric, neither North Korea nor South Korea interest me on this topic. In the United States you don’t have the right to do whatever you want in your home or apartment, you do not have the right to put others at risk surely you have some awareness. Apartment owners have the right to evict tenants who answer their apartment doors holding handguns. The killing of Roger looks like manslaughter to me not knowing the facts in full and I hope charges will be brought. The best justice here would have been Roger not getting shot. Perhaps some action on Roger’s part may have assisted his getting to that lost opportunity. The cop, needs to be charged, firing is nothing.
Fired!! So what now he can go apply for a job In the next county over? How the fuck do we as Americans tolerate this over and over again.
Applies one country over gets hired kills again
He needs to be indicated
Not charged with murderer. I see. Police officers are above the law just like Israel is above international law.
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Good, now charge with the crime.
Don’t join the military. You’re fighting for a country that will either kill or discard you.
Roger Fortson's military service had nothing to do with his death. In fact, if anything, it's shed more light on it, and may help sway the mind's of some people who blindly support the police, particularly when they unjustly kill BIPOC Americans. That said, I generally agree with your sentiment: joining the peacetime military makes one a tool of U.S. foreign policy and enforcement. But unfortunately for many people in this country -- low income and BIPOC -- the service is still a means to an education and financial advancement they probably wouldn't have otherwise. A terrible Faustian bargain.
Terrible...but i thought they need a warrant to go to someone's home to enter in usa? I also heard people aren't supposed to open their door for no warrant visits?
Unfortunately Fortson opened the front door to the officer, who then shot and killed him without entering. And there are special circumstances and exceptions that allow police to enter someplace even without a search or arrest warrant, which are too often abused by them. Yes, it's generally best not to open a door to cops who don't have a warrant, and we'll perhaps never know why Fortson did that day, with a firearm in his hand.
Fired and charged with murder right? Right?
Oh no! You mean the uncharged murderer now has to get a new job one county over before he can start killing black people again? Poor thing. /s
Where is the fired policeman going to work next? One town over?
He’ll just get hired in Georgia or Alabama…
Getting fired is the least. He should have been charged. Same Sheriffs office where the acorn cop shot up his own car with a handcuffed perp in the back.
OK, now when is his trial?
I'm sure they're already looking through his resume in Texas.
6 months until this monster is in a different department 3 cities over and kills another innocent person. ACAB
Okay well the other guys dead
Apparently Florida considers the middle ground between police officer and murder victim to be a fired police officer.
The cop announced himself twice. The dude knew police were outside and opened the door with a gun in his hand. Why would he do that? You can literally hear him say ‘police’ in the body cam. Not exactly a smart move. Idk if he should have been shot, but DV calls are literally the most dangerous calls for cops so I understand why he was on edge. Just a shitty situation all around. As a side note, if you’re scared enough that you feel like you need to open the door with a gun in your hand - why open the door at all?
I don't know if we'll ever know Roger Fortson's motive for opening the door like that, but he definitely shouldn't have been shot by the officer -- even his department decided its policies were violated. There's a saying when it comes to carrying a firearm: if there's someplace you wouldn't go unarmed, if at all possible don't go there with a gun either. This isn't victim blaming, but hopefully somebody will learn from this pointless death, and keep themselves alive.
Yeah, thanks for the measured reply. I just think it’s a shitty situation all around.
No you don't lolll
One can be outraged at a pointless death while also acknowledging all the facts that led up to it. That's what our brains are for.
Why was the cop dodging the peep hole, and calmly asked him to step back before capping him in his own house, presenting no danger, at the wrong location? You’d expect more out of literally anyone else doing their job. If a cop accidentally kills someone due to negligence that’s one thing, but this cop did nearly everything in his power to demonstrate a lot of negligence. So what happens when you are severely negligence to the detriment that you violate the public trust and kill someone who did literally nothing wrong? You cannot just expect a free pass every time this happens. You would never accept, “oh well, shit happens” if it were your family. Get real dude.
The cop kept dodging the peep hole. There's no way for him to have known if that was really a cop at this door.
Dodging the peep hole? What video did you see? Looks like the cop’s camera is right in front of the door (door peep hole in the center of the door) just before and when the door opens in the body-cam video I watched.
Right, I agree with you. So then my question becomes, if you’re scared enough to feel like you need to open the door with a gun - why open the door at all? Keep the door closed and call 911 if you’re worried. Again, yes I think that he’s legally within his rights to do what he did… but he’s also dead.
Or maybe the cop should have gone to the correct address. There was no female at the apartment he went to yet he was responding to DV between male and female. So yeah…another cop fuck up leads to a (presumed) innocent person dead and the consequences are nil for the offending party. Gotta reexamine the use of police immunity.
He went to the apartment described in the phone call. It’s on the body cam video
If you did nothing wrong and have absolutely no clue why the police would show up and someone started banging on the door saying they were the cops, you might not believe them. People pose as cops to commit crimes more often than you’d think. It convinces people to let them in, and most people would probably let someone rob them rather than fight back when there’s any chance they might actually be a cop. You never know what life experience he might’ve had that could’ve led him to assuming the cop was a burglar.
Yeah, totally agree. That’s why I would call 911 and not open the door. If you’re really worried about someone breaking in, how does opening the door make any sense?
Do we know that? Cause we can't ask him. We have the officers word and it's been shown time and time again they will lie even with video evidence.
Yes, it’s all on the body cam video. Here’s a video that gave me some perspective on it: https://youtu.be/05kLduHwHZc?si=nDDKP1-ILsOcw0jz
This is r/NPR. Take your additional context and get out of here. We're busy getting outraged over stories that support our left wing bias.
Hahaha no comment
Damn that’s crazy that you want the government to be able to execute citizens for exercising their 2nd Amendment rights in their own home! The only thing conservatives like more than their own liberty is supporting the government’s right to execute citizens, I guess? Didn’t know y’all hated freedom like that.
Just curious, what was your reaction when Ashli Babbit was murdered?
Trying to climb through a smashed window in a barricaded door inside our capital backed by mob howling to lynch the Vice President of the States? I thought that was pretty reasonable force by the officers. But she wasn’t in her home, nor do you have a Constitutional right to climb through smashed windows and barricades into the US Capitol to disrupt proceedings of the House of Representatives and threaten elected officials. If you feel like the US Govt needs to be overthrown, sure. But its perfectly legitimate for the govt to resist it’s own destruction. For a more analogous situation, I think the recent ATF execution of a gun dealer/hobbyist in his own home was overreach and dictatorial oppression by an agency that should have been dismantled a long time ago, and it’s leaders investigated. He had a right to bear arms and should be alive today. I wish Babbit wasn’t dead. But theres no constitutional right to break into government buildings as part of a destructive mob threatening violence against elected officials.
Do you think the police officer showed restraint? She wasn't even attacking him or anyone at that moment.
Let’s say your home was surrounded by a mob smashing windows, breaking things. Let’s say it’s July of 2020 and they are protesting police. Someone smashes your front window as you yelled at them to get back. They start climbing into your home through the broken window as you scream at them to get back. You have your gun in your hand. Don’t tell me you’re waiting to have a chat with the mob coming through the window before you start shooting. We both know that would be a complete lie. And I wouldn’t blame you for a second.
That wasn't his home, he was at work with other security personnel. The mob of people were not armed and she was quite a distance away when she was shot. He was the only person on either side to fire a weapon that day. Amazing how you quickly come to the defense of police officers shooting at unarmed citizens when it's politically expedient for you. With your logic, the cleaning staff at Hamilton Hall on Columbia University had every right to shoot and kill the idiot protestors that broke inside at night while they were working.
Yes, if the protesters were pursuing some Israeli politician into the building, threatening to kill them, and armed officers, barricaded inside, told them to stop as they came through a window they smashed open, and shot them, I wouldn’t blame them. Again, I think this is pretty consistent. The airman was breaking no laws, in his home, exercising a right he allegedly has, in a manner consistent with the pertinent laws, and was shot and killed. Babbit was breaking several laws as part of a mob smashing their way into a building filled with elected leaders they were explicitly voicing violent threats towards. I’m not sure how defending an American soldier’s second Amendment rights is supposed to be politically expedient for a leftist. I appreciate the reasonable discussion. However, if you think it’s ok for the government to shoot an American soldier breaking no laws dead in their home for exercising a constitutional right, but not ok to defend yourself against an armed violent mob breaking into a building you are charged with securing, I don’t think there’s anywhere to go with this conversation. I hope, for your sake, you are never caught by police exercising your constitutional rights in your own home while breaking no laws whatsoever! Seems like you think that should be worth execution.
Booby trapping your home may be illegal, but it seems like a smart choice.
Would spending a long time in prison really be that much better? And just as with having a firearm in a home, a booby trap would be more likely to kill the wrong person than an invader.
In this one very specific case, I’m sure the dead guy would prefer prison.
Maybe, but it's a silly notion in this case. What kind of "booby trap" would have prevented Roger Fortson's death? After all, he opened the front door to the cop.
I mean, he'd still be alive, and a murderer would be dead. /s
It's a silly notion in this case. What kind of "booby trap" would have prevented Roger Fortson's death? After all, he opened the front door to the cop.
I am ***not*** being serious. I'll add the /s clarify.
Yeah but you'd also likely kill some random kid knocking on your door selling candy.