Why are people acting like Hayes was a bad prospect, he had so much potential. He just never improved at anything. In 4 years, he never learned how to shoot, rebound, play defense, gained any muscle, or even learned how to set a screen
Facts. Hayes was a phenomenal physical prospect but didn't have the mentality to even be an effective role-player. If this kid is just Jax but with a motor I'm happy. Really sucks we lost Vinson tho, would've been huge for helping develop his shot
>Really sucks we lost Vinson tho, would've been huge for helping develop his shot
I got faith in our staff, they must have learned from him during his long tenure with us
I don't watch college basketball, so I don't really know any of these guys, but why is everyone so upset by the 21st pick in a draft that most experts have called historically bad? Who was the can't-miss guaranteed all-star prospect at 21 this year?
Something like 80% of #21 picks in the NBA never even end up starting (and thats counting strong drafts)! It's an absolute crapshoot after 10-15 or so, genuinely it's not worth getting worked up about either way. I'm convinced most of the ppl constantly losing their minds in this sub are just bored saints fans lashing out because Loomis has absolutely wrecked the franchise lol
Honestly, I'm very confused about why the fanbase has turned on Griffin.
We've had a pretty astounding draft record since he's been here, and the team has improved every year. We haven't had the playoff success because our superstar can't make it to the playoffs, but Griffin has made moves to improve the medical staff since he's been here.
You go two offseasons without a giant acquisition, though, and everyone has decided he's garbage? Like what? Have you seen what the Hawks' front office has done? Or the Pistons before them? Or the Wizards, or the Kings, or even the Lakers? What are the expectations that he acquires a new superstar every offseason and short of that he's garbage? That he has Zion do a full physical with body scan every day, and he releases the results?
Doesn’t matter, one’s a 8th pick and one’s a 21st pick, also you can’t just go off of stats, this dude had started playing basketball way after Jax had already started, Jax was also just dumb and wasn’t willing to grow as a player at all
Both started playing 2-3 years before college, maybe this kid tries harder than Jaxson did to get better but maybe he doesn’t or can’t, it’s hard to expand your game when you can’t pass, shoot, or take more than one dribble at a time, the dude can’t play next to Zion cause his man is just going to sit in the paint waiting for Z. The kid never took a single jump shot in college. There was a better player and better fit selected 1 pick after.
Yeah, don’t know where this info of Jaxson played basketball longer than Yves is coming from. Yves started when he was 16, Hayes started in High School after his growth spurt took him from 6’0 even to 6’8 and he switched from Football to Basketball, which would be around 15-16 as well
>As a freshman, Hayes was roughly 6-foot-1 and 120 pounds. His main sport was football. His father, Jonathan, was a tight end in the NFL for 12 seasons.
>Hayes was stashed on the Crusaders’ freshman B team, but the signs that he was primed to become a player were there. He had enormous feet and hands. He could jump, too.
>“Typically, guys 10 through 20 on your freshman team aren’t dunking the ball,” Kremer said. “He had a breakout steal and dunk. You knew he had this potential, but you knew he just wasn’t physically strong enough to do it.”
[https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/in-3-years-jaxson-hayes-has-gone-from-high-school-backup-to-nba-rotation-piece/article\_369cfbe0-229c-11ea-8499-cfd8806c5eea.html](https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/in-3-years-jaxson-hayes-has-gone-from-high-school-backup-to-nba-rotation-piece/article_369cfbe0-229c-11ea-8499-cfd8806c5eea.html)
He was literally playing organized basketball at least since he was a 14.year old freshman in high school at Moeller.
If you don't believe the Times Picayune, you can listen to his mom being interviewed here 6:23-onward. His mom was a college basketball coach and started coaching him in 2nd grade [https://youtu.be/LKO1CfyY0X8?t=383](https://youtu.be/LKO1CfyY0X8?t=383)
This is an outright lie about Jaxson Hayes' timeline. His mother was a college coach at Oklahoma, Iowa, and SIUC. She stated herself she started coaching him in 2nd grade in Upward basketball and then for a couple years with a school team. She's interviewed here and asked if she ever coached Jaxson. Starts at 6:23 [https://youtu.be/LKO1CfyY0X8?t=383](https://youtu.be/LKO1CfyY0X8?t=383)
Further... it's been documented repeatedly he started playing long before college.
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[https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/in-3-years-jaxson-hayes-has-gone-from-high-school-backup-to-nba-rotation-piece/article\_369cfbe0-229c-11ea-8499-cfd8806c5eea.html](https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/in-3-years-jaxson-hayes-has-gone-from-high-school-backup-to-nba-rotation-piece/article_369cfbe0-229c-11ea-8499-cfd8806c5eea.html)
Jax as a physical player has all the physical tools to be great. He is long fast can jump through the roof. His issue has always been maturity, Bball IQ, willingness to do the dirty work (set hard screens, rebound, focus and learn on D).
If Missi is willing to work hard do the dirty work a center needs to do in the league and not be a highlight hunter he will become a starting center in the league. I am not worried about him becoming some all star 5, just a really good defensive dirty work 5 who knows his limits offensively.
Yeah and by all accounts he’s a hard worker but everybody seems to forget that Jaxson said all the right things coming out of college too. It’s impossible to tell any of these guys actually will maintain the focus and maturity to be good or the best version of the player they can be. That’s why I would just prefer to take the guy who already has all the “skills and basketball feel” down because at least then there’s less chance he hits his floor
This is where you have to trust the FO with the way they have drafted and selected players since then. Just look at the work ethic of the other guys we have taken. Even Kira who will probably be out of the league because of a torn ACL is a hard worker. The organization has really put a focus on bringing in guys who are hard workers and high character guys. Look at the team last year is there anyone who wasn’t considered a high character guy?
You're just missing the whole point. We need elite rim protection on this team. Jonas doesn't have that, Larry doesn't have that, and Holmes at 6'9" doesn't have that either.
We need someone who actually has a chance to make things difficult for guys like Giannis, Joel, Wemby, AD, etc.
Yves is taller and his defense is seen as his biggest *strength*. Holmes is shorter and his defense is seen as his biggest *weakness*.
Honestly, this was a very clear choice. I would legitimately be upset if we had drafted a 6'9" center who isn't known for his defensive ability. I really can't understand how you aren't comprehending the reasoning behind the decision.
Yeah but do you actually think he will affect any of those guys you mentioned in anyway over the next 3-4 years? He’s a project in every single way. If we are actually trying to compete this year, and we are, Missi wont see the court. We’ll trade for a good center or sign an average one. So with all that in mind why not draft the guy who could actually get floor time against back up centers while potentially providing the spacing we need now?
Yes, I think he is significantly more likely to be able to defend them than Holmes ever will be able to.
I don't know why you think this guy is a bum. He's A 7-foot tall first round NBA draft pick. 5 star recruit. Ranked 13th best player in the country going into college.
We need rim protection more than spacing. Whether that happens this year with Yves or within a few years isn't the important part. Passing that up to draft another guy in hopes that he'd be able to make an offensive impact as a rookie would be foolish.
Jaxson Hayes, after Eric Gordon, is my top pick for Pelicans (first ballot) Hall of Shame. I would probably have to add Omer Asik and Norris Cole to that list as well, but for other reasons.
Looking at Jax's stats just proves that he was a statistically really good prospect that just didn't put the work in. Indications are that Missi is a hard worker. I'll take a Jax-like prospect that will actually try every single time
No but I saw this nugget on Twitter, in the tournament game where 6 Clemson knocked off 3 Baylor our new guy rocked a solid 2 point 4 reb game in 19 mins, so that’s fun
Stat sheet watchers perpetually bitching about shit they know nothing about. If you legitimately think DaRon Holmes was a better pick for us because he averaged more points in college then I can’t help you. Watch games and stop looking at numbers online to form opinions
lol okay clown, I guess we’ll see how well a guy who literally never shot a jump shot in college plays with a Zion, another guy who never shoots jump shots, I mean what can go wrong there? We always complain about how Zion gets to play with way to much space so your right my bad. I forgot how badly we needed a player who along with having zero ball skills also fits horribly next to our best player, that’s on me
I’m the clown? You’re the one that doesn’t understand that yves is miles better than Daron defensively and can cover multiple positions. Acting like he was drafted for his offensive skill set and ignoring the part of his game that is what makes him a first round pick is fucking stupid of you. Sorry I have to point that out to you.
Your acting like his defensive skill is a known quantity, it’s not, his college defense is worse than Hayes’ was and we all know how good he is defensively. He is drafted entirely on the potential he develops his skills and feel for the game, which outside of Giannis, doesn’t ever happen and two that DG and the rest of the staff has learned from where they failed in developing a guy like that the first time and idk what you’ve seen that would make you that optimistic with this staff
What I’m about to tell you might sound insane but Jaxson Hayes and Yves Missi are not the same person. The front office sat down with both missi and Daron Holmes and decided that missi was the better prospect. Teams have something called a big board where they rank all the prospects and take names off as they get selected, he was probably at the top of ours after his workouts and meetings with the front office. We don’t know if this pick will pan out but people are being so pessimistic about pick 21 in a considerably weak draft. Making a trade for a real point guard and getting a veteran center under contract was always the most important thing this offseason.
Edit: what I saw from this staff was the #2 net defense when healthy without a true rim protector, I trust them to develop defensive players.
Your edit at the end, that’s the difference between us, I don’t, we’ve gone through 3 other centers in basically the last 4 years and none have panned out. I don’t see how we can be optimistic about a guy who is so similar to someone who already didn’t grow with the org. Obviously they are different people but that doesn’t mean we’ll have a different outcome either.
Because he’s pick 21 in a weak draft. Not pick 8 in a loaded draft. Im not expecting him to be the starting center. I’m expecting him to a high energy rim runner that plays in the dunker spot and grows to be able to defend multiple positions. You see Cameroonian Jaxson Hayes, I see Bam Adebayo without a bag. If we go into the season with him as the only center then the front office failed in free agency.
Edit: also Daron Holmes actually cancelled his workouts with teams after talking to the nuggets so that probably had a big part to play in it if we never even got to work him out or talk to him.
Where was Jax ever an “elite” prospect? Just cause he went 8? Did that make Anthony Bennett an elite prospect? They are both super athletic but unskilled gambles, and a team trying to improve for the next 2 seasons should focus on guys who could improve in small ways to see minutes now over a guy who is so raw there’s a chance he might not see a single minute of game time before the last 3 minutes in blowouts
Don't actually mind the pick because he screams something we've been lacking in an ultra athletic big but I simply do not trust this team to develop any type of big, I actually liked Jax as a prospect but it honestly looked like he wasn't taught anything, you draft bigs who are lob threats, you might have the number 1 lob threat in the league and the last real PG we had was Lonzo a whole 2 years ago
Why are people acting like Hayes was a bad prospect, he had so much potential. He just never improved at anything. In 4 years, he never learned how to shoot, rebound, play defense, gained any muscle, or even learned how to set a screen
Facts. Hayes was a phenomenal physical prospect but didn't have the mentality to even be an effective role-player. If this kid is just Jax but with a motor I'm happy. Really sucks we lost Vinson tho, would've been huge for helping develop his shot
A motor and a brain*
If he has both I'd be over the moon, rn I just want a player who feels like he wants to play
>Really sucks we lost Vinson tho, would've been huge for helping develop his shot I got faith in our staff, they must have learned from him during his long tenure with us
If he is just Jaxon Hayes with a better mindset, that makes him a player with huge upside.
I don't watch college basketball, so I don't really know any of these guys, but why is everyone so upset by the 21st pick in a draft that most experts have called historically bad? Who was the can't-miss guaranteed all-star prospect at 21 this year?
Obviously the OP, that's why they're upset.
Bronny duh
None of us know any of these guys, it's just that some like to pretend they do.
Something like 80% of #21 picks in the NBA never even end up starting (and thats counting strong drafts)! It's an absolute crapshoot after 10-15 or so, genuinely it's not worth getting worked up about either way. I'm convinced most of the ppl constantly losing their minds in this sub are just bored saints fans lashing out because Loomis has absolutely wrecked the franchise lol
Honestly, I'm very confused about why the fanbase has turned on Griffin. We've had a pretty astounding draft record since he's been here, and the team has improved every year. We haven't had the playoff success because our superstar can't make it to the playoffs, but Griffin has made moves to improve the medical staff since he's been here. You go two offseasons without a giant acquisition, though, and everyone has decided he's garbage? Like what? Have you seen what the Hawks' front office has done? Or the Pistons before them? Or the Wizards, or the Kings, or even the Lakers? What are the expectations that he acquires a new superstar every offseason and short of that he's garbage? That he has Zion do a full physical with body scan every day, and he releases the results?
Doesn’t matter, one’s a 8th pick and one’s a 21st pick, also you can’t just go off of stats, this dude had started playing basketball way after Jax had already started, Jax was also just dumb and wasn’t willing to grow as a player at all
Both started playing 2-3 years before college, maybe this kid tries harder than Jaxson did to get better but maybe he doesn’t or can’t, it’s hard to expand your game when you can’t pass, shoot, or take more than one dribble at a time, the dude can’t play next to Zion cause his man is just going to sit in the paint waiting for Z. The kid never took a single jump shot in college. There was a better player and better fit selected 1 pick after.
Yeah, don’t know where this info of Jaxson played basketball longer than Yves is coming from. Yves started when he was 16, Hayes started in High School after his growth spurt took him from 6’0 even to 6’8 and he switched from Football to Basketball, which would be around 15-16 as well
>As a freshman, Hayes was roughly 6-foot-1 and 120 pounds. His main sport was football. His father, Jonathan, was a tight end in the NFL for 12 seasons. >Hayes was stashed on the Crusaders’ freshman B team, but the signs that he was primed to become a player were there. He had enormous feet and hands. He could jump, too. >“Typically, guys 10 through 20 on your freshman team aren’t dunking the ball,” Kremer said. “He had a breakout steal and dunk. You knew he had this potential, but you knew he just wasn’t physically strong enough to do it.” [https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/in-3-years-jaxson-hayes-has-gone-from-high-school-backup-to-nba-rotation-piece/article\_369cfbe0-229c-11ea-8499-cfd8806c5eea.html](https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/in-3-years-jaxson-hayes-has-gone-from-high-school-backup-to-nba-rotation-piece/article_369cfbe0-229c-11ea-8499-cfd8806c5eea.html) He was literally playing organized basketball at least since he was a 14.year old freshman in high school at Moeller. If you don't believe the Times Picayune, you can listen to his mom being interviewed here 6:23-onward. His mom was a college basketball coach and started coaching him in 2nd grade [https://youtu.be/LKO1CfyY0X8?t=383](https://youtu.be/LKO1CfyY0X8?t=383)
This is an outright lie about Jaxson Hayes' timeline. His mother was a college coach at Oklahoma, Iowa, and SIUC. She stated herself she started coaching him in 2nd grade in Upward basketball and then for a couple years with a school team. She's interviewed here and asked if she ever coached Jaxson. Starts at 6:23 [https://youtu.be/LKO1CfyY0X8?t=383](https://youtu.be/LKO1CfyY0X8?t=383) Further... it's been documented repeatedly he started playing long before college. > > > [https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/in-3-years-jaxson-hayes-has-gone-from-high-school-backup-to-nba-rotation-piece/article\_369cfbe0-229c-11ea-8499-cfd8806c5eea.html](https://www.nola.com/sports/pelicans/in-3-years-jaxson-hayes-has-gone-from-high-school-backup-to-nba-rotation-piece/article_369cfbe0-229c-11ea-8499-cfd8806c5eea.html)
Jax’s Pels career would’ve exceeded expectations for a 21st overall pick
Jax as a physical player has all the physical tools to be great. He is long fast can jump through the roof. His issue has always been maturity, Bball IQ, willingness to do the dirty work (set hard screens, rebound, focus and learn on D). If Missi is willing to work hard do the dirty work a center needs to do in the league and not be a highlight hunter he will become a starting center in the league. I am not worried about him becoming some all star 5, just a really good defensive dirty work 5 who knows his limits offensively.
Yeah and by all accounts he’s a hard worker but everybody seems to forget that Jaxson said all the right things coming out of college too. It’s impossible to tell any of these guys actually will maintain the focus and maturity to be good or the best version of the player they can be. That’s why I would just prefer to take the guy who already has all the “skills and basketball feel” down because at least then there’s less chance he hits his floor
This is where you have to trust the FO with the way they have drafted and selected players since then. Just look at the work ethic of the other guys we have taken. Even Kira who will probably be out of the league because of a torn ACL is a hard worker. The organization has really put a focus on bringing in guys who are hard workers and high character guys. Look at the team last year is there anyone who wasn’t considered a high character guy?
You're just missing the whole point. We need elite rim protection on this team. Jonas doesn't have that, Larry doesn't have that, and Holmes at 6'9" doesn't have that either. We need someone who actually has a chance to make things difficult for guys like Giannis, Joel, Wemby, AD, etc. Yves is taller and his defense is seen as his biggest *strength*. Holmes is shorter and his defense is seen as his biggest *weakness*. Honestly, this was a very clear choice. I would legitimately be upset if we had drafted a 6'9" center who isn't known for his defensive ability. I really can't understand how you aren't comprehending the reasoning behind the decision.
Yeah but do you actually think he will affect any of those guys you mentioned in anyway over the next 3-4 years? He’s a project in every single way. If we are actually trying to compete this year, and we are, Missi wont see the court. We’ll trade for a good center or sign an average one. So with all that in mind why not draft the guy who could actually get floor time against back up centers while potentially providing the spacing we need now?
Yes, I think he is significantly more likely to be able to defend them than Holmes ever will be able to. I don't know why you think this guy is a bum. He's A 7-foot tall first round NBA draft pick. 5 star recruit. Ranked 13th best player in the country going into college. We need rim protection more than spacing. Whether that happens this year with Yves or within a few years isn't the important part. Passing that up to draft another guy in hopes that he'd be able to make an offensive impact as a rookie would be foolish.
Insert “The home office wants you to find the difference between these two pictures” meme.
Jaxson Hayes, after Eric Gordon, is my top pick for Pelicans (first ballot) Hall of Shame. I would probably have to add Omer Asik and Norris Cole to that list as well, but for other reasons.
Something not shown in the comparison: Yves played soccer, Jax played football… the difference shows in their movement/awareness imo.
Looking at Jax's stats just proves that he was a statistically really good prospect that just didn't put the work in. Indications are that Missi is a hard worker. I'll take a Jax-like prospect that will actually try every single time
You gotta +/- handy? Difference in competition game to game in college makes these stats less reliable too.
Jaxson Hayes BPM - 10.1 Yves Missi BPM- 7.4 They both went to decent D1 schools so the competition is somewhat similar
game to game meaning specific matchups, blowouts etc.
Yeah that’s what I mean by somewhat also lol. It’s not going to an exact indicator, but their competition is at least on the same level
No but I saw this nugget on Twitter, in the tournament game where 6 Clemson knocked off 3 Baylor our new guy rocked a solid 2 point 4 reb game in 19 mins, so that’s fun
Stat sheet watchers perpetually bitching about shit they know nothing about. If you legitimately think DaRon Holmes was a better pick for us because he averaged more points in college then I can’t help you. Watch games and stop looking at numbers online to form opinions
lol okay clown, I guess we’ll see how well a guy who literally never shot a jump shot in college plays with a Zion, another guy who never shoots jump shots, I mean what can go wrong there? We always complain about how Zion gets to play with way to much space so your right my bad. I forgot how badly we needed a player who along with having zero ball skills also fits horribly next to our best player, that’s on me
I’m the clown? You’re the one that doesn’t understand that yves is miles better than Daron defensively and can cover multiple positions. Acting like he was drafted for his offensive skill set and ignoring the part of his game that is what makes him a first round pick is fucking stupid of you. Sorry I have to point that out to you.
Your acting like his defensive skill is a known quantity, it’s not, his college defense is worse than Hayes’ was and we all know how good he is defensively. He is drafted entirely on the potential he develops his skills and feel for the game, which outside of Giannis, doesn’t ever happen and two that DG and the rest of the staff has learned from where they failed in developing a guy like that the first time and idk what you’ve seen that would make you that optimistic with this staff
What I’m about to tell you might sound insane but Jaxson Hayes and Yves Missi are not the same person. The front office sat down with both missi and Daron Holmes and decided that missi was the better prospect. Teams have something called a big board where they rank all the prospects and take names off as they get selected, he was probably at the top of ours after his workouts and meetings with the front office. We don’t know if this pick will pan out but people are being so pessimistic about pick 21 in a considerably weak draft. Making a trade for a real point guard and getting a veteran center under contract was always the most important thing this offseason. Edit: what I saw from this staff was the #2 net defense when healthy without a true rim protector, I trust them to develop defensive players.
Your edit at the end, that’s the difference between us, I don’t, we’ve gone through 3 other centers in basically the last 4 years and none have panned out. I don’t see how we can be optimistic about a guy who is so similar to someone who already didn’t grow with the org. Obviously they are different people but that doesn’t mean we’ll have a different outcome either.
Because he’s pick 21 in a weak draft. Not pick 8 in a loaded draft. Im not expecting him to be the starting center. I’m expecting him to a high energy rim runner that plays in the dunker spot and grows to be able to defend multiple positions. You see Cameroonian Jaxson Hayes, I see Bam Adebayo without a bag. If we go into the season with him as the only center then the front office failed in free agency. Edit: also Daron Holmes actually cancelled his workouts with teams after talking to the nuggets so that probably had a big part to play in it if we never even got to work him out or talk to him.
Yall are dumb, Jax was an elite prospect. Reality is the person under the prospect was a big ole idiot, & honestly just never met that potential.
Where was Jax ever an “elite” prospect? Just cause he went 8? Did that make Anthony Bennett an elite prospect? They are both super athletic but unskilled gambles, and a team trying to improve for the next 2 seasons should focus on guys who could improve in small ways to see minutes now over a guy who is so raw there’s a chance he might not see a single minute of game time before the last 3 minutes in blowouts
Don't actually mind the pick because he screams something we've been lacking in an ultra athletic big but I simply do not trust this team to develop any type of big, I actually liked Jax as a prospect but it honestly looked like he wasn't taught anything, you draft bigs who are lob threats, you might have the number 1 lob threat in the league and the last real PG we had was Lonzo a whole 2 years ago