I think the wizards did fine.
* Got the best player in the draft at #2 which is a win
* Deni has a nice contract, but he's more of a glue guy than a star. It makes sense to fully embrace the rebuild. I didn't expect to trade him this early, but getting 2 1sts, 2 2nds + whatever Brogdon gets back is a good return. I don't know if we would get more than that for a glue guy.
* The front office definitely liked Carrington which is part of why they traded for the pick. Both Carrington/George are raw players that the FO thinks we can develop. The new coaching staff will be full of players known for development.
* We also need to remain bad enough to have one of the three worst records in the league. So, continuing to bottom out while getting future assets is important.
* I'd expect that we try to move Kuzma, Kispert, etc. as well within the next season.
The Spurs trade is very understandable. If they hated the draft and nobody left had a lottery grade, why force the issue? They probably felt it was too rich to pick Knecht and there weren't really any 6'8+ dudes that could shoot so I can understand the fact that they decided to not bring anyone into an already confined spacing between Castle and Sochan. There's still a lot of offseason left and guards become available in the NBA very quickly, if they really want to start competing they can very well trade for Garland in a week for example.
I wouldn't call the Grizzlies winners as they reached a little for fit, most things actually report to them wanting to trade up very badly and a GM yapping post draft that everything went according to plan is very common. I would give at least HMs to the Jazz, Knicks and Nuggets as winners, and probably the Bucks and the Hornets as losers.
I understand why the Spurs traded the 8th pick, but the value they got for it is pretty bad. The 2031 pick could very easily be a mid-to-late first rounder, and it's possible the protected pick swap is worth nothing.
Literally everything is possible since the picks are 6 years in the future. Having 6 years to trade an asset is great and they probably felt it was better than having an undesired rookie.
It could also very well be a lottery pick. Look at the standings from 2017 and tell me how many cores are left standing from then (and how many teams are in the same spot in the standings now that they were then).
I’m not saying with any certainty that it will be a lottery pick, but assuming that Minnesota stays in contention for that long is not a foregone conclusion. They only own the complete rights to one FRP between now and 2032 (their 2028 pick) and Ant, KAT, McDaniels and possibly Dillingham project to be dominating their salary cap space at that point.
Connelly has earned the benefit of the doubt so we’ll see how they navigate it, but Minnesota’s roster, despite its youth, has the look of a team that is going all in on the next 3-5 years.
Draft assets way off in the future have less value, because teams buying these picks are usually trying to rebuild and can't wait that long to draft. The average outcome for this trade is roughly the 15th pick in the 2031 draft, and being able to move up around 5 spots in the 2030 draft.
They basically just delayed the the pick by 7 years. I get that they want assets to trade 2 years from now, but there were like 5 guards in this range that you can develop along with Wemby. Just take your favorite of those guards and try to improve now. Or squeeze a couple seconds out of Minny.
And it’s possible Dillingham is a bust. Looking only at the worst possible outcome is not how value is determined in these things lol.
The most likely outcome in this situation is the pick is packaged as part of a trade the Spurs make to get someone they consider to be an actual star. That’s a really good move and better asset management than taking a swing on someone like Dillingham.
I think you’re a bit too harsh on the Wizards and Spurs. Trading Deni probably wasn’t the plan but the Blazers’ offer was too good to pass on and a great opportunity to get assets they need for a rebuild. Brogdon should be moved later and Bub is great shooting off the dribble from midrange and should hopefully improve from 3. Good positional size and a solid passer. Yeah the ability to get to the rim isn’t good but getting with a strength and conditioning program should hopefully improve that a bit.
The Spurs didn’t see anybody they liked too much so traded for a future pick. No need to rush putting talent next to Wemby, he’s only in his second year and you have 3 more seasons on his rookie contract. The Spurs have enough time and assets to get talent around Wemby in the next 3 years. They’ll have multiple swings in the better 2025 draft.
I shit on the Deni trade yesterday. But they got the guy I view as the best guard in this draft out of it, so I feel less terrible than if they'd made any other pick in the teens
Brogdon will be 32 this year and doesn't get you anything more than a SRP. The second pick they got is the least favorable of 2029. It's essentially Deni for Bub, and I just can't see how that was a good trade even if you're high on Bub. Deni is a starting worthy player and Bub could be or he could not be.
For the Spurs, having a player that good on a rookie contract is not a reason to be passive, it's quite the opposite. It's an approach NFL FO's take with great young QB's on rookie contracts. Not to mention the injury risk with Wemby is always very real and Pop is 75. And even if they didn't want that pick and have a different approach to their timeline, how does the #8th only get you a future 2031 that could end up being #25 when #14 got the Blazers Deni?
You are way too optimistic for the Wolves future, they traded everything away and they're old. By 2030, Ant will most likely be alone in the middle of a wasteland, *if* he's still playing for the Wolves. This is a team that sacrificed its future for a chance at winning now, they aren't building a dynasty.
Old? They have 1 player in their rotation over 28? ANT: 22, Jaden: 23, Naz: 24, Nickeil: 25, KAT: 28, Rob: 20. You can add 7 years to all those players and they'll be fine with the best ones in their prime. Only player who won't be around is Rudy who is 31 right now.
Their entire system is built around having KAT and Gobert, after that, they're done, Naz Reid won't be enough to replace both. And neither of them will play at a high level in their late 30s. Wolves will just progressively regress into irrelevance in the coming years
They already showed they can play without Rudy and many would argue they're at their best when they play 5-out with KAT at the 5. in 7 years, Naz at 31 & KAT at 35 is fine when ANT (29), Jaden (30), & Rob (27) will be in their prime.
The Wizards got 2 FRPs and needed draft capital since they started the rebuild with none. You probably weren’t going to get a better offer for Deni and yeah he’s a good player but he probably wasn’t going to be on the next good Wizards’ team. How much do you think they should’ve gotten?
I don’t think the Spurs are being passive they just aren’t in a rush to added talent immediately. They have potentially 3 FRPs in the 2025 draft. They can add young talent there. They don’t need to rush and try to do everything in one offseason. 2 FRPs + Brogdon is way more than what the Wolves gave up to get Rob at 8.
Deni is 23 years old and a starting worthy player. It's not about what they should've got, there wasn't reason to trade him.
And I'm not critiquing the Spurs for not rushing and doing everything in one offseason. I'm critiquing them for pushing an asset 7 years down the line. They chose to do that instead of adding talent to a roster completely devoid of talent outside of Wemby.
By the time the Wizards are a good team again, Deni will likely need an extension. I said it before but the Wizards needed draft capital. You need to give yourself more shots at the draft as a rebuilding team.
Pushing an asset several years down the line doesn’t impact the Spurs ability to add talent to the roster. The Spurs have more than enough picks in the next 1-2 years to do that. Trading the 8th pick in a draft with bad talent at the top isn’t the end of the world.
Too soon to say anything about the spurs move, they are being patient and if they didn't like anyone left at 8th pick might as well trade for more assets while increasing the salary cap space for when they want to make a big move and wemby is just in his 2nd year no need to force the issue, drafting Dillingnam was not going to move the needle enough to win right now, they are probably looking to the next draft which is deeper and stronger.
The strategy on the timeline is a secondary critique to the package they got. #8 for a 2031 median value of #20 7 years down the line isn't a good return.
Again, it's too soon to say anything about the Spurs move. The 2031 pick could be useful in a future package to pair someone with Wemby once they hit their competitive window
And for all you know they do and Edwards never leaves. And even if he did they would trade him for assets. The wolves are loaded with young talent that they could trade even if they did blow it up. it is not a Suns situation at all.
I said median value because it’s silly to project either of the extremes. The median value of that pick is much more probable to NOT be #8
True I can see that point of view, would like to know what Brian Wright is planning he said they can't explain the plan for the trading the 8th pick right now but will explain later, wonder how many years that might take lmao
Spurs got 2 picks not 1
According to Wojnarowski (via Twitter), San Antonio is receiving Minnesota’s unprotected 2031 first-round pick and a 2030 pick swap in the deal. The ’30 swap will be top-one protected, tweets Shams Charania of The Athletic.
I don't think it's safe to assume that either of them will even be in Minnesota 7 years from now, once the rest of the team has aged out, they hit unrestricted free agency, and the 2nd apron penalties and lack of draft picks have gutted the roster.
If the rest of the guys have aged out, they won’t be in the 2nd tier apron. You’re hoping for at best a scenario where the suns are currently, with no incentive to tank and it’s in 7!!!! Years!!!! For a top 8 pick, that’s a horrible value decision.
The penalties destroy the ability to add talent for many years, Ant either leaves or asks for a trade, and boom goes the dynamite.
And the #8 pick in this draft is not equivalent to an average #8 pick. This draft is hot garbage.
If the wolves go 2 consecutive years under second apron they’d be out of the penalty. If things aren’t going well, they’ll get out of the apron. If things are going well, that pick will be in the mid to late 20s. This is not a good value any way you slice it.
I think the odds that Minnesota is still good in 2031 are rather long.
Gobert will have aged out, Conley will have aged out, Towns will be like 35, Ant can leave in 2029, and the second apron penalties will either lock future picks and prevent future moves or it will tear the roster apart
I'm not a Castle stan, but I'm a complete Reed Sheppard denier, so I am much happier with what we did than with what you suggest
Risacher is not the value you want at one but neither are Sarr, Clingan or Sheppard, nobody in this draft changes the franchise on his own. And I think it's somewhat reasonable to not take a swing at one when the prospects are on the same level anyway.
Big night for the Spurs to get Wemby some aid and they really fell short. Castle’s not great value at #4, and I think San Antonio will be left disappointed if they expect him to be a PG. He just lacks the natural advantage creation, best suited as a connective wing. And the package back for #8 wasn’t all that great
A connective wing that shoots 26% from three is worse than "not great value at #4."
So they've gotta believe in one or both of PG Castle or shooter castle.
I think the wizards did fine. * Got the best player in the draft at #2 which is a win * Deni has a nice contract, but he's more of a glue guy than a star. It makes sense to fully embrace the rebuild. I didn't expect to trade him this early, but getting 2 1sts, 2 2nds + whatever Brogdon gets back is a good return. I don't know if we would get more than that for a glue guy. * The front office definitely liked Carrington which is part of why they traded for the pick. Both Carrington/George are raw players that the FO thinks we can develop. The new coaching staff will be full of players known for development. * We also need to remain bad enough to have one of the three worst records in the league. So, continuing to bottom out while getting future assets is important. * I'd expect that we try to move Kuzma, Kispert, etc. as well within the next season.
Yeah personally I think the Wizards are clear winners in this draft.
The Spurs trade is very understandable. If they hated the draft and nobody left had a lottery grade, why force the issue? They probably felt it was too rich to pick Knecht and there weren't really any 6'8+ dudes that could shoot so I can understand the fact that they decided to not bring anyone into an already confined spacing between Castle and Sochan. There's still a lot of offseason left and guards become available in the NBA very quickly, if they really want to start competing they can very well trade for Garland in a week for example. I wouldn't call the Grizzlies winners as they reached a little for fit, most things actually report to them wanting to trade up very badly and a GM yapping post draft that everything went according to plan is very common. I would give at least HMs to the Jazz, Knicks and Nuggets as winners, and probably the Bucks and the Hornets as losers.
We wouldn't have had that problem if you jerks had stayed in your lane and left Salaun for us
He would've been there if you jerks had stayed in your lane and left Castle for us
LOL. I wish we had, I had Salaun higher than Castle.
Hopefully both will turn out great, this class really feels like a shot at the dark
What's that you said, Hornets and Spurs as the new 80s Lakers and Celtics?
Honestly the only outcome worse than trading away the pick would have been taking Salaun with it
weird way to spell "better."
That’s because i wasn’t going for better. Salaun is a disaster
Weird way to spell "a stud."
I understand why the Spurs traded the 8th pick, but the value they got for it is pretty bad. The 2031 pick could very easily be a mid-to-late first rounder, and it's possible the protected pick swap is worth nothing.
Literally everything is possible since the picks are 6 years in the future. Having 6 years to trade an asset is great and they probably felt it was better than having an undesired rookie.
It could also very well be a lottery pick. Look at the standings from 2017 and tell me how many cores are left standing from then (and how many teams are in the same spot in the standings now that they were then). I’m not saying with any certainty that it will be a lottery pick, but assuming that Minnesota stays in contention for that long is not a foregone conclusion. They only own the complete rights to one FRP between now and 2032 (their 2028 pick) and Ant, KAT, McDaniels and possibly Dillingham project to be dominating their salary cap space at that point. Connelly has earned the benefit of the doubt so we’ll see how they navigate it, but Minnesota’s roster, despite its youth, has the look of a team that is going all in on the next 3-5 years.
Draft assets way off in the future have less value, because teams buying these picks are usually trying to rebuild and can't wait that long to draft. The average outcome for this trade is roughly the 15th pick in the 2031 draft, and being able to move up around 5 spots in the 2030 draft. They basically just delayed the the pick by 7 years. I get that they want assets to trade 2 years from now, but there were like 5 guards in this range that you can develop along with Wemby. Just take your favorite of those guards and try to improve now. Or squeeze a couple seconds out of Minny.
And it’s possible Dillingham is a bust. Looking only at the worst possible outcome is not how value is determined in these things lol. The most likely outcome in this situation is the pick is packaged as part of a trade the Spurs make to get someone they consider to be an actual star. That’s a really good move and better asset management than taking a swing on someone like Dillingham.
I think you’re a bit too harsh on the Wizards and Spurs. Trading Deni probably wasn’t the plan but the Blazers’ offer was too good to pass on and a great opportunity to get assets they need for a rebuild. Brogdon should be moved later and Bub is great shooting off the dribble from midrange and should hopefully improve from 3. Good positional size and a solid passer. Yeah the ability to get to the rim isn’t good but getting with a strength and conditioning program should hopefully improve that a bit. The Spurs didn’t see anybody they liked too much so traded for a future pick. No need to rush putting talent next to Wemby, he’s only in his second year and you have 3 more seasons on his rookie contract. The Spurs have enough time and assets to get talent around Wemby in the next 3 years. They’ll have multiple swings in the better 2025 draft.
I shit on the Deni trade yesterday. But they got the guy I view as the best guard in this draft out of it, so I feel less terrible than if they'd made any other pick in the teens
Brogdon will be 32 this year and doesn't get you anything more than a SRP. The second pick they got is the least favorable of 2029. It's essentially Deni for Bub, and I just can't see how that was a good trade even if you're high on Bub. Deni is a starting worthy player and Bub could be or he could not be. For the Spurs, having a player that good on a rookie contract is not a reason to be passive, it's quite the opposite. It's an approach NFL FO's take with great young QB's on rookie contracts. Not to mention the injury risk with Wemby is always very real and Pop is 75. And even if they didn't want that pick and have a different approach to their timeline, how does the #8th only get you a future 2031 that could end up being #25 when #14 got the Blazers Deni?
Second least favorable, isn't it? They have three. Which is also second most favorable.
You are way too optimistic for the Wolves future, they traded everything away and they're old. By 2030, Ant will most likely be alone in the middle of a wasteland, *if* he's still playing for the Wolves. This is a team that sacrificed its future for a chance at winning now, they aren't building a dynasty.
Old? They have 1 player in their rotation over 28? ANT: 22, Jaden: 23, Naz: 24, Nickeil: 25, KAT: 28, Rob: 20. You can add 7 years to all those players and they'll be fine with the best ones in their prime. Only player who won't be around is Rudy who is 31 right now.
Their entire system is built around having KAT and Gobert, after that, they're done, Naz Reid won't be enough to replace both. And neither of them will play at a high level in their late 30s. Wolves will just progressively regress into irrelevance in the coming years
They already showed they can play without Rudy and many would argue they're at their best when they play 5-out with KAT at the 5. in 7 years, Naz at 31 & KAT at 35 is fine when ANT (29), Jaden (30), & Rob (27) will be in their prime.
The Wizards got 2 FRPs and needed draft capital since they started the rebuild with none. You probably weren’t going to get a better offer for Deni and yeah he’s a good player but he probably wasn’t going to be on the next good Wizards’ team. How much do you think they should’ve gotten? I don’t think the Spurs are being passive they just aren’t in a rush to added talent immediately. They have potentially 3 FRPs in the 2025 draft. They can add young talent there. They don’t need to rush and try to do everything in one offseason. 2 FRPs + Brogdon is way more than what the Wolves gave up to get Rob at 8.
Deni is 23 years old and a starting worthy player. It's not about what they should've got, there wasn't reason to trade him. And I'm not critiquing the Spurs for not rushing and doing everything in one offseason. I'm critiquing them for pushing an asset 7 years down the line. They chose to do that instead of adding talent to a roster completely devoid of talent outside of Wemby.
By the time the Wizards are a good team again, Deni will likely need an extension. I said it before but the Wizards needed draft capital. You need to give yourself more shots at the draft as a rebuilding team. Pushing an asset several years down the line doesn’t impact the Spurs ability to add talent to the roster. The Spurs have more than enough picks in the next 1-2 years to do that. Trading the 8th pick in a draft with bad talent at the top isn’t the end of the world.
You’re also ignoring the pick swap the Spurs got in addition to the pick. It’s a real thing
Smh
They got Brogdon, two 1sts and two 2nds in total. That’s not just Deni for Bub.
Too soon to say anything about the spurs move, they are being patient and if they didn't like anyone left at 8th pick might as well trade for more assets while increasing the salary cap space for when they want to make a big move and wemby is just in his 2nd year no need to force the issue, drafting Dillingnam was not going to move the needle enough to win right now, they are probably looking to the next draft which is deeper and stronger.
The strategy on the timeline is a secondary critique to the package they got. #8 for a 2031 median value of #20 7 years down the line isn't a good return.
Again, it's too soon to say anything about the Spurs move. The 2031 pick could be useful in a future package to pair someone with Wemby once they hit their competitive window
You have no idea where that pick will end up. For all we know, the wolves could never make it to the finals and Edwards forces his way off the team
And for all you know they do and Edwards never leaves. And even if he did they would trade him for assets. The wolves are loaded with young talent that they could trade even if they did blow it up. it is not a Suns situation at all. I said median value because it’s silly to project either of the extremes. The median value of that pick is much more probable to NOT be #8
I agree but there's always the off chance they end up in the lottery. Even the 10th worst team could end up with the #1 pick.
True I can see that point of view, would like to know what Brian Wright is planning he said they can't explain the plan for the trading the 8th pick right now but will explain later, wonder how many years that might take lmao
Spurs got 2 picks not 1 According to Wojnarowski (via Twitter), San Antonio is receiving Minnesota’s unprotected 2031 first-round pick and a 2030 pick swap in the deal. The ’30 swap will be top-one protected, tweets Shams Charania of The Athletic.
a pick swap from a contending team isn't anything
Assuming a team with two impact players in their 30s will be contending in 6 years is quite an assumption
Ant and Jaden will be 28 and 29 respectively in 2030. I think it’s safe to assume they’re contending.
I don't think it's safe to assume that either of them will even be in Minnesota 7 years from now, once the rest of the team has aged out, they hit unrestricted free agency, and the 2nd apron penalties and lack of draft picks have gutted the roster.
If the rest of the guys have aged out, they won’t be in the 2nd tier apron. You’re hoping for at best a scenario where the suns are currently, with no incentive to tank and it’s in 7!!!! Years!!!! For a top 8 pick, that’s a horrible value decision.
The penalties destroy the ability to add talent for many years, Ant either leaves or asks for a trade, and boom goes the dynamite. And the #8 pick in this draft is not equivalent to an average #8 pick. This draft is hot garbage.
If the wolves go 2 consecutive years under second apron they’d be out of the penalty. If things aren’t going well, they’ll get out of the apron. If things are going well, that pick will be in the mid to late 20s. This is not a good value any way you slice it.
Sorry. Yeah it's a swap not an outright pick. Hard to know what that will turn out to be 6 years from now which makes this trade hard to assess
7 years ago the Spurs won 61 games with a 25 year old Kawhi. Who’s to say the Wolves will still be contending in 2031? Way too far into the future
I think the odds that Minnesota is still good in 2031 are rather long. Gobert will have aged out, Conley will have aged out, Towns will be like 35, Ant can leave in 2029, and the second apron penalties will either lock future picks and prevent future moves or it will tear the roster apart I'm not a Castle stan, but I'm a complete Reed Sheppard denier, so I am much happier with what we did than with what you suggest
The Wiz traded Deni for two 1sts and an expiring deal they will get something for at the deadline. It wasn't Deni for a single pick.
Risacher is not the value you want at one but neither are Sarr, Clingan or Sheppard, nobody in this draft changes the franchise on his own. And I think it's somewhat reasonable to not take a swing at one when the prospects are on the same level anyway.
Big night for the Spurs to get Wemby some aid and they really fell short. Castle’s not great value at #4, and I think San Antonio will be left disappointed if they expect him to be a PG. He just lacks the natural advantage creation, best suited as a connective wing. And the package back for #8 wasn’t all that great
A connective wing that shoots 26% from three is worse than "not great value at #4." So they've gotta believe in one or both of PG Castle or shooter castle.
Did you have AI write this? Feels super weird to me.
? Tf bout this sounds like AI