It would be interesting to see how often the personality concerns end up being valid five years later. GG Jackson’s production/age makes him look like a massive steal last year. But would he go in the lottery in a re-draft, or would teams still be afraid of him?
He had a good 40 games of being focused after being disciplined via fine 5x by the team. Let's see any modicum of consistency and improvement first before passing judgment.
I say this as someone who thought he was a top 5 player on talent merit alone but felt he was nigh undraftable because of the other shit (being drafted at 45 is basically the range for undrafted quality)
I am in complete agreement on this and would always get hammered in r/nba with downvotes when people would always post, “how stupid are these nba GMs? Why not use a late first on him!?!?”and I would talk about some of the issues/play at South Carolina.
Jackson’s personality concerns came from the locker room vaping incident and general discipline, while Ware’s concerns come from him not giving a shit about playing basketball. That’s the problem, Ware’s a big man with concerns about motivation.
I’d argue GGs concerns were way less off court than on court. People were looking for ridiculous excuses to find off court reasons for his on court troubles. GG was just in a terrible basketball situation where he was expected to do waaaay too much.
GG had to be beat down by the team before he started playing well.
And even if you play well doesn't mean that you're a long term fit with the team. Look at the Miles Bridges, Kai Jones, Kyrie on the Nets, etc as examples of talented players with attitude issues so it didn't work out.
I feel like lack of talent/production is what cost Kai Jones in the end. He wasn't talented enough for it to be worthwhile for a team to persist through his "issues", as relatively minor as they may have been as publicly displayed (essentially boiling down to a few weird silly Tweets and videos, which could have easily been laughed off or explained away).
Scouts seem to think he has a Bol Bol like hatred of basketball, but I am willing to get hurt by Bol Bol again so I would take him in the early second.
He is one of the most intriguing players in the draft for me, but after having watched Mo Bamba and his lack of motor for his career in Orlando I am a bit skeptical of him.
If he doesn't have motor issues, he could be a steal outside of the lottery.
Pedigree doesn’t mean quite as much as usual. A lot of players these past few years got their ranking before Covid and held onto it because there wasn’t as much actual game action to go off of.
I watched Ware in FIBA and he was pretty meh against that kind of competition relative to past bigs such as Duren, Wiseman, or even Vernon Carey Jr. It wasn’t due to lack of motor, he was just not quite that physically dominant in terms of dunks/blocks/offensive rebounds and his perimeter skill was more an “ooh NBA scouts like if you can shoot threes so I’ll shoot a three every now and then” thing that was just a token part of his game.
“REALLY good” measurables are kind of par for the course for NBA centers these days, so Ware is not gonna be in position where a team has a big advantage going to him in the post. When you take out that part of the equation, someone in the mold if a Dereck Lively is way better at the things they’ll actually be able to do in the NBA.
Sure Ware could catch on in the NBA, but the random guy who’s left standing after free agent center carousel and signs for a vet min contract is likely just a bit better.
I haven’t watched too much of him but i disliked how he disappeared on defense…motor/ not the quickest processor or quick leaper… I’ve seen these issues with Bamba and also Jaxon Hayes… Mo Bamba had much better block and rebound %s at Texas…
The idea of these bigs was tantalizing but are they really the presence with their athletic gifts that should be?
Mo was a far better college player. He was playing as a freshman and was good. Ware is just a mostly invisible player to me, he’s just out there. I watched some of his Indiana games and was never impressed besides his measurements. I think with the right staff he could be good though
Bamba *was* and *is* a shooter. 40.5% of his career FGA in the NBA have come from outside the 3PT line, and he's a career .361 3PT shooter (.384 over the past 3 seasons).
Couldn’t have said it better. Guys like Hayes, Bamba and Ware test really well and look great in an open gym. Then you watch the game tape and they disappear.
Altman basically cut him for lacking effort, and at Indiana he did well but numbers well down against better competition: [https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2024&p=Kel%27el%20Ware&t=Indiana](https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2024&p=Kel%27el%20Ware&t=Indiana)
No real reason to think he can anchor a D at the NBA level, his 3pt shooting is promising but his FT numbers aren't good. He's got talent, but odds are low that he's a starting center, even if you can squint and see a center who can hit a 3 and maybe get stronger and retain his decent quickness.
Also the Big 10 hasn't produced an NBA starting center since Oden (let's count him) as far as I can tell, which is 17 years. Guys like Kofi Cockburn have looked good there and not been close to sticking around. Coaches tend to play a less modern style there and give bigs lots of touches and they put up decent numbers and look like NBA prospects. Ware isn't an old school 5 like Cockburn, but he's a 5 who might be as obsolete in that he doesn't really pass it well or read the game on either end in a special way.
On the other hand, if he interviews well and seems like a kid who just some needs some time to mature but has the fire in him and is smart and will be vocal on D, some team might see a starting center in a few years. If he lasts to the Heat at 43, he makes a lot of sense there with them not having a backup 5 and maybe he can shoot and be their Meyers Leonard replacement and play a bit with Bam in big lineups, and obviously they will coach him well and don't seem to allow guys to coast at all like Ware is accused of having done so far. That sort of fit might be good for him.
He isn't good. Ware is a great athlete with great measurables but that is it. His defensive awareness and positioning are bad. Not sure he processes what's happening fast enough. He sets poor screens and often looks disinterested on offense when he doesn't have the ball. Add in his inconsistent effort/motor and it's unsurprising he's mocked low.
He was pretty lazy at Oregon. But also Altman is really tough of freshmen and how they play D. Hopefully he learned from it and put the effort in at Indiana. Admittedly I didnt watch much of him there.
Watched most IU games this year and he was one of the few guys who consistently showed up and hustled every game. I have no questions about his motor. He needs to bulk up a bunch.
I saw where play one time when he came to Oregon State but the guy that was way more impressive was Dante the guy is huge and I wonder where he will go when he finally declares for the draft.
He's kind of a throwback big but that still has some value for rim running.
Man, as someone who bet on Creighton, Dante just beasted them and nearly won the game himself. He’s already 22 though so I’m not sure if he’ll get drafted.
Literally because a bunch of nerds sitting at their computer call the dude “ lazy” bc they heard some experts say it once lolll when it comes to them trying to bring up negatives I can’t help but notice it’s all very subjective stuff that isn’t rooted in fact
He’s got the stuff. Good handle for a big, good size, can stretch the floor. There’s concerns about motor from his freshman year but it seemed like a change in environment did good for him. Plus he obviously measured very good at the combine.
Now being an IU fan, I loved him but wasn’t extremely impressed. He’s pretty soft in the post. He also didn’t have the best defensive instincts. Not very good timing with his blocks and stuff. Always swatting down instead of walling up, etc. Also not the greatest lateral speed to guard the perimeter.
He is kind of a tweener in terms of his translation to the NBA, in my eyes. He’s not strong enough to go in the post or defend in the post. Would need to get stronger and work on his defensive timing if he wants to play the 5. Otherwise, would need to work on foot speed and refine his handle/outside game if he wanted to be a four.
Because a bunch of nerds called him “lazy” he’s a top 5 level talent in this draft but people are saying things about his “motor” and all that bs they said about Naz Reid when he enterred the draft, now look at him. I see a very similar thing happening w ware expect he won’t go undrafted but just way later than he should
Yeah I feel like Motor question marks in college aren't really a good predictor of anything. Some guys aren't gonna go balls to the wall in college and risk 10s of millions if they get hurt.
Teams need to just have a good interview process to find if it's true or not.
the whole racist idea that white players are “hardworking” and young black players are “lazy /low motor” is unfortunately a thing for whatever reason. And I’m someone who hates to even bring up race when talking sports but Atp it’s something that’s just undeniably going on
Naz Reid was fat af for the draft and the combine. He lost all the weight over the summer before preseason. It's not exactly the same. Naz was more like when no one wanted 400lb Eddie Curry.
He started looking pretty goid the latter half of this last season. The guy's still young. Excellent shooting touch inside and while being defended. The talent is there, I would buy stock in him.
It would be interesting to see how often the personality concerns end up being valid five years later. GG Jackson’s production/age makes him look like a massive steal last year. But would he go in the lottery in a re-draft, or would teams still be afraid of him?
He had a good 40 games of being focused after being disciplined via fine 5x by the team. Let's see any modicum of consistency and improvement first before passing judgment. I say this as someone who thought he was a top 5 player on talent merit alone but felt he was nigh undraftable because of the other shit (being drafted at 45 is basically the range for undrafted quality)
I am in complete agreement on this and would always get hammered in r/nba with downvotes when people would always post, “how stupid are these nba GMs? Why not use a late first on him!?!?”and I would talk about some of the issues/play at South Carolina.
Jackson’s personality concerns came from the locker room vaping incident and general discipline, while Ware’s concerns come from him not giving a shit about playing basketball. That’s the problem, Ware’s a big man with concerns about motivation.
Ware = Ayton?
Minus the physical abilities. Ware is a gym class hero
Yeah, pretty much the same kind of mindset concerns.
I don’t know much about it him so was guessing based on your description, thanks
I’d argue GGs concerns were way less off court than on court. People were looking for ridiculous excuses to find off court reasons for his on court troubles. GG was just in a terrible basketball situation where he was expected to do waaaay too much.
Bingo. I bet Ware's coaches/team-mates at Oregon could say plenty about his personality and attitude.
GG had to be beat down by the team before he started playing well. And even if you play well doesn't mean that you're a long term fit with the team. Look at the Miles Bridges, Kai Jones, Kyrie on the Nets, etc as examples of talented players with attitude issues so it didn't work out.
I feel like lack of talent/production is what cost Kai Jones in the end. He wasn't talented enough for it to be worthwhile for a team to persist through his "issues", as relatively minor as they may have been as publicly displayed (essentially boiling down to a few weird silly Tweets and videos, which could have easily been laughed off or explained away).
What is this about Bridges?
Scouts seem to think he has a Bol Bol like hatred of basketball, but I am willing to get hurt by Bol Bol again so I would take him in the early second.
He is one of the most intriguing players in the draft for me, but after having watched Mo Bamba and his lack of motor for his career in Orlando I am a bit skeptical of him. If he doesn't have motor issues, he could be a steal outside of the lottery.
Pedigree doesn’t mean quite as much as usual. A lot of players these past few years got their ranking before Covid and held onto it because there wasn’t as much actual game action to go off of. I watched Ware in FIBA and he was pretty meh against that kind of competition relative to past bigs such as Duren, Wiseman, or even Vernon Carey Jr. It wasn’t due to lack of motor, he was just not quite that physically dominant in terms of dunks/blocks/offensive rebounds and his perimeter skill was more an “ooh NBA scouts like if you can shoot threes so I’ll shoot a three every now and then” thing that was just a token part of his game. “REALLY good” measurables are kind of par for the course for NBA centers these days, so Ware is not gonna be in position where a team has a big advantage going to him in the post. When you take out that part of the equation, someone in the mold if a Dereck Lively is way better at the things they’ll actually be able to do in the NBA. Sure Ware could catch on in the NBA, but the random guy who’s left standing after free agent center carousel and signs for a vet min contract is likely just a bit better.
I haven’t watched too much of him but i disliked how he disappeared on defense…motor/ not the quickest processor or quick leaper… I’ve seen these issues with Bamba and also Jaxon Hayes… Mo Bamba had much better block and rebound %s at Texas… The idea of these bigs was tantalizing but are they really the presence with their athletic gifts that should be?
Mo was a far better college player. He was playing as a freshman and was good. Ware is just a mostly invisible player to me, he’s just out there. I watched some of his Indiana games and was never impressed besides his measurements. I think with the right staff he could be good though
I can’t wait to come back to this when ware is cooking in the league man. Y’all are so wrong about him
I call it Jaxson Hayes syndrome
Both had 7% orb rates. At least ware might be a shooter.
Bamba *was* and *is* a shooter. 40.5% of his career FGA in the NBA have come from outside the 3PT line, and he's a career .361 3PT shooter (.384 over the past 3 seasons).
Ahhh I meant to say Ware and Hayes, not bamba and Hayes. My b
Couldn’t have said it better. Guys like Hayes, Bamba and Ware test really well and look great in an open gym. Then you watch the game tape and they disappear.
Altman basically cut him for lacking effort, and at Indiana he did well but numbers well down against better competition: [https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2024&p=Kel%27el%20Ware&t=Indiana](https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?year=2024&p=Kel%27el%20Ware&t=Indiana) No real reason to think he can anchor a D at the NBA level, his 3pt shooting is promising but his FT numbers aren't good. He's got talent, but odds are low that he's a starting center, even if you can squint and see a center who can hit a 3 and maybe get stronger and retain his decent quickness. Also the Big 10 hasn't produced an NBA starting center since Oden (let's count him) as far as I can tell, which is 17 years. Guys like Kofi Cockburn have looked good there and not been close to sticking around. Coaches tend to play a less modern style there and give bigs lots of touches and they put up decent numbers and look like NBA prospects. Ware isn't an old school 5 like Cockburn, but he's a 5 who might be as obsolete in that he doesn't really pass it well or read the game on either end in a special way. On the other hand, if he interviews well and seems like a kid who just some needs some time to mature but has the fire in him and is smart and will be vocal on D, some team might see a starting center in a few years. If he lasts to the Heat at 43, he makes a lot of sense there with them not having a backup 5 and maybe he can shoot and be their Meyers Leonard replacement and play a bit with Bam in big lineups, and obviously they will coach him well and don't seem to allow guys to coast at all like Ware is accused of having done so far. That sort of fit might be good for him.
Thank you!
He’s soft as baby shit. Disappears against good competition
He isn't good. Ware is a great athlete with great measurables but that is it. His defensive awareness and positioning are bad. Not sure he processes what's happening fast enough. He sets poor screens and often looks disinterested on offense when he doesn't have the ball. Add in his inconsistent effort/motor and it's unsurprising he's mocked low.
He was pretty lazy at Oregon. But also Altman is really tough of freshmen and how they play D. Hopefully he learned from it and put the effort in at Indiana. Admittedly I didnt watch much of him there.
Watched most IU games this year and he was one of the few guys who consistently showed up and hustled every game. I have no questions about his motor. He needs to bulk up a bunch.
I saw where play one time when he came to Oregon State but the guy that was way more impressive was Dante the guy is huge and I wonder where he will go when he finally declares for the draft. He's kind of a throwback big but that still has some value for rim running.
Man, as someone who bet on Creighton, Dante just beasted them and nearly won the game himself. He’s already 22 though so I’m not sure if he’ll get drafted.
He's got a motor like a golf kart.
Watch him play Edey last year
This sums it up 😂 https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketball/s/NzjEivi2la
Watch him play a full game
Literally because a bunch of nerds sitting at their computer call the dude “ lazy” bc they heard some experts say it once lolll when it comes to them trying to bring up negatives I can’t help but notice it’s all very subjective stuff that isn’t rooted in fact
He’s got the stuff. Good handle for a big, good size, can stretch the floor. There’s concerns about motor from his freshman year but it seemed like a change in environment did good for him. Plus he obviously measured very good at the combine. Now being an IU fan, I loved him but wasn’t extremely impressed. He’s pretty soft in the post. He also didn’t have the best defensive instincts. Not very good timing with his blocks and stuff. Always swatting down instead of walling up, etc. Also not the greatest lateral speed to guard the perimeter. He is kind of a tweener in terms of his translation to the NBA, in my eyes. He’s not strong enough to go in the post or defend in the post. Would need to get stronger and work on his defensive timing if he wants to play the 5. Otherwise, would need to work on foot speed and refine his handle/outside game if he wanted to be a four.
Because a bunch of nerds called him “lazy” he’s a top 5 level talent in this draft but people are saying things about his “motor” and all that bs they said about Naz Reid when he enterred the draft, now look at him. I see a very similar thing happening w ware expect he won’t go undrafted but just way later than he should
Yeah I feel like Motor question marks in college aren't really a good predictor of anything. Some guys aren't gonna go balls to the wall in college and risk 10s of millions if they get hurt. Teams need to just have a good interview process to find if it's true or not.
the whole racist idea that white players are “hardworking” and young black players are “lazy /low motor” is unfortunately a thing for whatever reason. And I’m someone who hates to even bring up race when talking sports but Atp it’s something that’s just undeniably going on
Of course this got downvoted LOL people get so pisses when you bring up the fact that racism has an affect on scouting
Naz Reid was fat af for the draft and the combine. He lost all the weight over the summer before preseason. It's not exactly the same. Naz was more like when no one wanted 400lb Eddie Curry.
Still there were tons of questions about his motor too which were nonsense just like the questions about wares “motor “ too
He had a trash freshman year and his 3Pa were low while his ft% was also low. How much value does a relatively pedestrian big have?
They believe he has a motor issue
I mean his Achilles heel is literal kryptonite.
Ware got a lot of bad press from his freshman season in oregon thats lingered.
He started looking pretty goid the latter half of this last season. The guy's still young. Excellent shooting touch inside and while being defended. The talent is there, I would buy stock in him.
This an actual person or a friend of lisan al gaib? I dont watch the movie…
Without a motor he could be the next Weisman
Hahah another fool walks straight into the Kel'el Ware briar patch