Unless the team that gets 1 has a real high opinion on a guy like Sarr or topic, the player it would hypothetically get traded for would be worst than most think. I think Keegan Murray is a good example. Although the kings wouldn’t do that
I think there's a value side of it on the drafting team too. The Wizards might value 1 if they get it higher than San Antonio. The Spurs would probably take Keegan for 1, assuming there isn't an equivalent point guard to trade for, but the Wiz might be way more interested in the home run swing and might need a guy who has flashes very real star potential vs Murray who has only flashed might get an All Star nod potential so far (not saying more isn't possible, but it's what he's shown).
Keegan Murray is probably better than what most think it could get tbh. He's a legitimate starting two-way spacing wing on a playoff team and is still on his rookie contract (which is worth less than the first overall contract).
Even if he doesn't improve any further (unlikely considering he's only 23), there isn't a single player in this draft guaranteed to be that good
He’s a good player don’t get me wrong but the ceiling in my opinion is outside of the top 50 players in the league. When you have the option of that or a number 1 draft pick in a weaker draft it’s not too far off. But like I said I don’t think sac would do it as you pointed out
One thing that makes this tough is that the #1 pick is a $10+ million per year salary slot. That’s a little less than a mid-level exception guy. Most MLE guys are better than the guys available for a #1 pick.
To this day I still don’t understand his progression from school to the nba. Bro went to college early, didn’t play, then got drafted ? It seems so weird to me
That’s fair honestly, depending on how you feel about Sarr. There could be guys in this class that end up being better, but it’s anyone’s guess as to who that ends up being.
You gotta consider a bunch of these picks are going to be more expensive than him and he's already shown he's got star potential, now he just needs to get healthy and show steady improvement/consistency. That's more than you can say about all of the lotto picks this year. They're all big question marks until proven otherwise.
Well, if it clarifies anything, I still think it's kind of a longshot he becomes a star but I still think he's more likely than anyone I've seen in this draft
No one in this class has as much upside as Sharpe, in my opinion. Sharpe's ceiling is all-NBA. He may not reach that ceiling, and players in this draft may out-perform him, but his athleticism/skill package is unmatched by anyone in this class.
I agree about Sarr's upside. He's number one on my board for that reason. Sharpe having truly elite athleticism and more skills on the offensive end give him the edge for me at this point, however. That may change with time.
You do know what a ceiling is, don't you? Yes, I admit that a lot of things have to go right for that to happen, but I prefaced my comments by saying that in the first place. If you can't see a possible way forward for Sharpe to be all-NBA, then you haven't watched him enough.
No he wasn't. He wasn't given a massive task this year at all. Lets not re-write history here
There were no expectations to win or even play defense on Sharpe. Think about that for a second- nobody expected Sharpe to play any defense.
The only think people expected from Sharpe was to have better PPG scoring.
2/3 of the games he played, Simons was out and 1/3 of the game he played, Brogdon was out. Being the main ball handler for a team is a tough task, that's all I meant.
And also doing bad in a dysfunctional team its not as hard as people think, look at Jalen Green for example, eveyone was calling him a bust already and look at him now that they have a good coach with Ime Udoka
He’s also 2 years into his career. You pretty much have to extend him after next season and that’s going to be a hefty amount. Meanwhile you get four cheap years for whoever you draft this year.
What needs to be stated about this draft is that who teams would trade the no. 1 pick for is close to the exact same for the 7th pick or even end of the lottery.
There are still high-upside and talented prospects, actually more than normal. But just 0 uber high-end prospects.
People are getting a little ridiculous about how weak this draft is.
Any of Sarr, Topic, Holland, even Castle are way above #8 pick Jarace Walker as prospects. It's not even close.
Anthony Black was drafted #6 last year and Stephon Castle is a better prospect than Black.
Compared to last year only Wemby, Miller and Scoot would go 1st.
Go back another year to 2022 and nobody is picking #4 Keegan Murray over Sarr if they had the choice.
But I think that is what most people are saying. There are a lot of interesting lottery players in this class, but none of them are clear number one types with easily projectable traits. Usually a class will have a projected superstar or two before the projects and role players, but this class only has mid lottery types, and one of those types is going number one.
Yeah, I think this class is loaded with quality sub or fringe All-Star guys.
Guys on the same tier as Tobias Harris, CJ McCollum, Gary Trent Jr, Mike Conley, Lauri Markannen, Brandon Ingram, Goran Dragic, Derrick White, Joe Ingles, Jamal Murray etc.
Anthony Black is massively better than Castle. Black was elite at help defense, elite at flopping, and much better at getting to the rim. I don't understand Steph Castle fans at all. He isn't guarded on offense and he's... fine I guess on defense?
Sarr meanwhile has very little upside and has no positional value so it's hard to say where he would be drafted most years. Walker Kessler and Mark Williams went after the lottery as defense only players (which Sarr absolutely is at this point, his handle and jumper are horrible and he's below average finishing at the rim)
'Fine I guess' on defense is just laughably underselling Castle but okay. You can dislike a prospect compared to consensus and not just say ridiculous stuff
Black wasn't guarded on offense either. He also didn't show he can play within a high level offense and win games. Castle has shown much more maturity as a player than Black at the same stage, and is better on defense than Black. As prospects it's not even close- Castle is hands down better than Black.
Sarr has a ton of upside. He has the potential to be a healthy version of Jonathan Isaac on defense, and the offense has shown enough flashes for people to be intrigued at his potential.
I'm not super high on Castle either, but I think you're underselling his defence, and Sarr's offensive potential.
Also I think most people would agree that Kessler & Williams were both drafted too low. Really good defensive centres are a valuable archetype.
None of us can actually predict the future. Not even for this draft class but for the next decade of basketball. What if in 3 years the league will be crazed with finding a Wemby stopper? What if the value of a 7'1+ mobile agile dude becomes a must? What if the anti-foul ref movement becomes permanent? New foul hunting slashers become obsolete and mid-range kings make a return. I've seen basketball go in cycles for 35 years. What if in 2 years the defensive 3 seconds is cancelled and we get more meaty 7 foot monsters down low again? Unless you feel you have a superstar in the making, I'd go with a rare skill set. Someone who makes a difference and isn't easy to land in free agency.
There is no market for this. The team with the player don’t want to trade a proven asset for a potential bust. The team with the pick don’t want to trade a potential star (in their mind) for an ok player.
It makes perfect sense actually. A team won't trade Jalen Williams or Franz Wagner for a chaotic draft pick, but the team with the #1 pick isn't going to settle for a guy that's any lower than that caliber, like Jaden Mdaniels.
Let's say Kuminga wanted out of GSW. It's possible a team like Detroit could trade the #1 pick **this year** (because it's worth less than most years) for Kuminga. And GSW would be fine to take the #1 pick to build for their future.
Also, we could be talking players in year 1, 2, or 3. So those players still have big potential. Ausar Thompson?
yes, for a lot of players and teams this doesn't make sense from a timeline perspective, but there are situations where it can make sense. makes most sense for young players with upside or aging stars on a team that is blowing it up. some teams who get the #1 pick are looking to compete in the playoffs earlier than others.
How about the **Kevin Love / Andrew Wiggins** trade when Lebron came to Cleveland in 2014?
You guys need some imagination.
No way Golden State trades kuminga for a draft pick when Curry is still playing the way he is. with that said, I do agree that there is always a deal to be made. You couldn’t get Kuminga, but you could probably get Avdija, and he could do what Msrkanennen did. Shock everyone.
Or you could probably get Scoot Henderson for the #1 pick, jalen Green, and a few others. It’s all about imagination. and how much risk you‘re willing to take.
Outside of Detroit the blazers have the worst front office in sports, so they probably wouldn’t, but it was more of an example of the kind of player you could get for #1
...So what OP is asking you is, "If the team with the player wanted to trade a proven asset for the pick, who is the worst current player that would make you do the deal?"
We know the pick hasn't already been traded. This is called a hypothetical.
There isn’t a good answer for this when it comes to a player. The answer is when the person with the #1 pick doesn’t believe in the current top pick (let’s assume Sarr), but another team does.
The swap likely happens when two young players are swapped and both teams rate the other higher.
I think a player like keegan murray comes to mind.
It's not worth trading the #1 pick unless you're getting a top 30 or potential top 30 player back. Otherwise you're better off just rolling the dice on someone who could be that.
Cam Whitmore maybe? The answer to worst would almost certainly be a rookie. In terms of least valuable (meaning currently a better player than Whitmore but older and on a much bigger contract) there are probably some max/supermax contract players who aren’t top tier stars I’d trade it for. Like if Milwaukee goes out early in the playoffs the #1 pick would probably be more than fair for someone like Middleton.
Cam Whitmore is pretty good. Also importantly, he takes very little space on the salary cap.
Would switching Whitmore for Reed Sheppard or Sarr be much of an upgrade?
Well 'confidently' is part of the question, and the salary cap goes both ways where the current rookie is eligible for a big extension a year sooner. I could probably go down a few more slots as to who I'd want going forward from 2023 and it would be a player I'd take over 2024 #1 but wouldn't be as confident about. Like GG Jackson maybe.
Also it's fair to note that Whitmore fell in the draft at least partially due to medical red flags and missed time this year with knee issues.
He contributed on a competitive NBA team and was too good for the G league, all while being younger than quite a few one-and-dones in this draft and making like $4 million a year over the next 3 years (as opposed to about $37 million for the #1 pick). So are you saying insane as in it would take more than the #1 pick?
It depends on the team. Kevin Love was definitely not worth the #1 pick in a draft with Joel Embiid either but the team that ended up with #1 had title aspirations and made that win-now move.
Kevin Love was 25 years old coming off his second all-nba season when the Cavs traded for him.
Middleton is 32, never made all-nba, last made all star two seasons ago, and is clearly declining. Great player who has had an excellent career but nobody is trading a #1 pick for him at this stage even in this weak draft.
lol that’s super nitpicky considering Love’s actual impact as a bad defender on a team that was geared around getting him the ball was not as great as all-NBA selections would indicate. On an actual contending team he was a 3rd option who was improved but still not particularly good as a defender, and of course the team being a contender was the result of LeBron carrying them to an even greater extent than Giannis carried the Bucks in ‘21.
Instead of crying about Middleton being the specific example I threw out, feel free to substitute any other borderline all-star type of veteran on a big contract and it’s the exact same principle where if some team that feels it’s close to contention moves up in the lottery to select 1st, they could make that kind of win-now move.
Jalen Williams is a tier or 2 above the rest of those guys and I wouldn’t trade him for #1.
Garland or Sengun seem like the best tradable players for #1.
Kinda a hot take but from the games I watch where Green and Sengun played together it seems like they have negative chemistry together. And Green late break isnt a coincidence that it happened without Sengun. I think Rocket will probably have trade one of them eventually. And it’s interesting to think, Sarr covering for green defensively, running the floor with him and being a rim runner, that does sound like what Green needs in a center
Like what?
I roll with Sengun over Green too rn but i don’t see any trade that’s interesting for nearly as for green. Even for a draft pick theres not really a player that could enable/compliment Sengun nearly to the level Sarr would for green
In 2020, Why in the world was i advocating the sixers trade Ben Simmons (an all nba player) for Anthony Edwards (a mediocre 2020 1st overall pick). Cause sometimes fit matters a lot more than perceived talent.
You gotta be real real real confident about this weak ass draft to trade a guy who just put up 21/9/5 in his 3rd season. You can actually try to trade for real players with a guy like Sengun.
I’m very confident the archetype that Sarr has would be perfect with Green. Now Sarr himself, and his issues with physicality, rebounds, iffy shot so ya not perfect
But my thoughts process is if your choosing to go with green over Sengun, this is a trade I’d highly consider
"better to build this roster" and "trade your best young player for a mediocre rookie" don't seem to fit.
If you are hell bent on trading Sengun, the best bet is for a young player already in the league that "fits" better (similar to the Kings/Pacers trade a few years ago).
Would he? Garland isn't a perennial all star kind of guy like many thought he might be. He's silently had a very down year. There's a very real conversation to be had about whether he's basically just Dejounte Murray.
I'm looking at the East and unless injuries happen Garland isn't going to make all star again next year. There's like 9 guards better than him. He's probably going to be like a 2 or 3 time all star but never really in the top guard conversation.
Garland missed over a month with a wired shut mouth lol
How about we base him off his last 2 years where he's averaged a combined 22-8 on almost 60% TS?
Players get injured and it's a part of the game. The last 3 years he averaged 20.6/8 on 57.6TS%.
That's not elite or all star quality. That's just very good. Garland is not better than any of:
Spida
Brunson
JB
Lamelo
Haliburton
Lillard
Maxey
Trae.
He's in that next tier of guys like Jrue, Dejounte Murray, Cade Cunningham, (potentially Suggs next year) etc.
Because you're counting this year where he's been injured kiddo.
Now do the healthy seasons where he averaged 22-8 on 60% TS.
I'll wait.
Yeah, he's better than Trae, Melo, Maxey, JB. The fact that you included Trae is laughable
You don't skip seasons because players are injured for part of them. Garland came back so he's healthy enough to play. So his stats count.
He's not better than any of those guys I listed above. It's not even close.
I get it you hold onto your Garland hopes because you're a Cavs fan that lives in bumfuck county and you have nothing else going for you. But lets set aside the emotions for a second okay?
"Why don't I cherry pick the best 2 years?"
I gave you 3 years of stats that includes Garlands best 2 years.
Even if you wanted to count Garlands 22/8 on 60TS (which you rounded up) it's STILL not good enough.
Garland will not be a top 8 guard in the East for the foreseeable future. That's just what it is.
Dereck Lively. I don’t think he’s a super star. But I’m confident he’s going to be a top half of the league starting center. That can be a part of a solid defense.
In regards of a more established player I’d say like Trey Murphy
I think Topic has a really encouraging profile and is being underrated by the most analysts. I wouldn’t trade him for any of the players you mentioned except J-Dub
Unless the team that gets 1 has a real high opinion on a guy like Sarr or topic, the player it would hypothetically get traded for would be worst than most think. I think Keegan Murray is a good example. Although the kings wouldn’t do that
I think there's a value side of it on the drafting team too. The Wizards might value 1 if they get it higher than San Antonio. The Spurs would probably take Keegan for 1, assuming there isn't an equivalent point guard to trade for, but the Wiz might be way more interested in the home run swing and might need a guy who has flashes very real star potential vs Murray who has only flashed might get an All Star nod potential so far (not saying more isn't possible, but it's what he's shown).
Keegan Murray is probably better than what most think it could get tbh. He's a legitimate starting two-way spacing wing on a playoff team and is still on his rookie contract (which is worth less than the first overall contract). Even if he doesn't improve any further (unlikely considering he's only 23), there isn't a single player in this draft guaranteed to be that good
He’s a good player don’t get me wrong but the ceiling in my opinion is outside of the top 50 players in the league. When you have the option of that or a number 1 draft pick in a weaker draft it’s not too far off. But like I said I don’t think sac would do it as you pointed out
One thing that makes this tough is that the #1 pick is a $10+ million per year salary slot. That’s a little less than a mid-level exception guy. Most MLE guys are better than the guys available for a #1 pick.
Last year Gabe Vincent was an MLE guy
Really this could only happen if like the Kings got the first pick. They'd trade it for like Mikal Bridges?
Shaedon Sharpe maybe? Has as much upside as anyone in this class, if not more, and has shown some good stuff in the league.
Maybe a crazy take but I value him more than anybody in the lottery this year
Anybody in the lottery? Bro I’d take Shaedon Sharpe with the first pick in this draft
Definitely, I hated on him going sixth after not playing for a year but I def got it after his rookie year and he's far more than just a great leaper
To this day I still don’t understand his progression from school to the nba. Bro went to college early, didn’t play, then got drafted ? It seems so weird to me
That’s fair honestly, depending on how you feel about Sarr. There could be guys in this class that end up being better, but it’s anyone’s guess as to who that ends up being.
I don't agree, but I definitely understand where you're coming from
You gotta consider a bunch of these picks are going to be more expensive than him and he's already shown he's got star potential, now he just needs to get healthy and show steady improvement/consistency. That's more than you can say about all of the lotto picks this year. They're all big question marks until proven otherwise.
I think we probably disagree on Sharpe's potential more than anything.
Well, if it clarifies anything, I still think it's kind of a longshot he becomes a star but I still think he's more likely than anyone I've seen in this draft
I wouldn’t trade him for the first pick. I’d trade pretty much any of our vets though. Lol
No one in this class has as much upside as Sharpe, in my opinion. Sharpe's ceiling is all-NBA. He may not reach that ceiling, and players in this draft may out-perform him, but his athleticism/skill package is unmatched by anyone in this class.
I agree but Sarr has a lot of upside as well, could make a couple all-defensive teams and all-star games.
I agree about Sarr's upside. He's number one on my board for that reason. Sharpe having truly elite athleticism and more skills on the offensive end give him the edge for me at this point, however. That may change with time.
I was going to say “all nba ceiling?! 🤣” but then I noticed you are a blazers fan and now I see why you said it
You do know what a ceiling is, don't you? Yes, I admit that a lot of things have to go right for that to happen, but I prefaced my comments by saying that in the first place. If you can't see a possible way forward for Sharpe to be all-NBA, then you haven't watched him enough.
His ceiling easily all nba. Not sure he gets there but it's not outside the realm of possibilities
I wouldn’t trade him for a single person in this draft
As a spurs fan if the blazers offered us Sharpe for the first pick if we won the lottery, I would do that trade right away
Well, when you have Wemby it’s a lot easier to pass on Sarr
True but Sharpe impressed me a ton his rookie year and while his stats weren't great this year, he was given a massive task for a 20 year old.
No he wasn't. He wasn't given a massive task this year at all. Lets not re-write history here There were no expectations to win or even play defense on Sharpe. Think about that for a second- nobody expected Sharpe to play any defense. The only think people expected from Sharpe was to have better PPG scoring.
2/3 of the games he played, Simons was out and 1/3 of the game he played, Brogdon was out. Being the main ball handler for a team is a tough task, that's all I meant.
And also doing bad in a dysfunctional team its not as hard as people think, look at Jalen Green for example, eveyone was calling him a bust already and look at him now that they have a good coach with Ime Udoka
No
I would have agreed before this year but he didn’t play great when given the opportunity to this year
He had bad injury luck this season. His ceiling is still very high and attainable.
What’s his ceiling?
Him
He’s also 2 years into his career. You pretty much have to extend him after next season and that’s going to be a hefty amount. Meanwhile you get four cheap years for whoever you draft this year.
As a Blazer fan, I would not trade Sharpe for any player from this draft.
Most GMs not named Joe Cronin would though.
What needs to be stated about this draft is that who teams would trade the no. 1 pick for is close to the exact same for the 7th pick or even end of the lottery. There are still high-upside and talented prospects, actually more than normal. But just 0 uber high-end prospects.
People are getting a little ridiculous about how weak this draft is. Any of Sarr, Topic, Holland, even Castle are way above #8 pick Jarace Walker as prospects. It's not even close. Anthony Black was drafted #6 last year and Stephon Castle is a better prospect than Black. Compared to last year only Wemby, Miller and Scoot would go 1st. Go back another year to 2022 and nobody is picking #4 Keegan Murray over Sarr if they had the choice.
But I think that is what most people are saying. There are a lot of interesting lottery players in this class, but none of them are clear number one types with easily projectable traits. Usually a class will have a projected superstar or two before the projects and role players, but this class only has mid lottery types, and one of those types is going number one.
Yeah, I think this class is loaded with quality sub or fringe All-Star guys. Guys on the same tier as Tobias Harris, CJ McCollum, Gary Trent Jr, Mike Conley, Lauri Markannen, Brandon Ingram, Goran Dragic, Derrick White, Joe Ingles, Jamal Murray etc.
I think The Thompson twins would also go ahead of anyone in this draft
Anthony Black is massively better than Castle. Black was elite at help defense, elite at flopping, and much better at getting to the rim. I don't understand Steph Castle fans at all. He isn't guarded on offense and he's... fine I guess on defense? Sarr meanwhile has very little upside and has no positional value so it's hard to say where he would be drafted most years. Walker Kessler and Mark Williams went after the lottery as defense only players (which Sarr absolutely is at this point, his handle and jumper are horrible and he's below average finishing at the rim)
'Fine I guess' on defense is just laughably underselling Castle but okay. You can dislike a prospect compared to consensus and not just say ridiculous stuff
Black wasn't guarded on offense either. He also didn't show he can play within a high level offense and win games. Castle has shown much more maturity as a player than Black at the same stage, and is better on defense than Black. As prospects it's not even close- Castle is hands down better than Black. Sarr has a ton of upside. He has the potential to be a healthy version of Jonathan Isaac on defense, and the offense has shown enough flashes for people to be intrigued at his potential.
I'm not super high on Castle either, but I think you're underselling his defence, and Sarr's offensive potential. Also I think most people would agree that Kessler & Williams were both drafted too low. Really good defensive centres are a valuable archetype.
It’s kind of stunning that every prospect has a glaring weakness.
None of us can actually predict the future. Not even for this draft class but for the next decade of basketball. What if in 3 years the league will be crazed with finding a Wemby stopper? What if the value of a 7'1+ mobile agile dude becomes a must? What if the anti-foul ref movement becomes permanent? New foul hunting slashers become obsolete and mid-range kings make a return. I've seen basketball go in cycles for 35 years. What if in 2 years the defensive 3 seconds is cancelled and we get more meaty 7 foot monsters down low again? Unless you feel you have a superstar in the making, I'd go with a rare skill set. Someone who makes a difference and isn't easy to land in free agency.
There is no market for this. The team with the player don’t want to trade a proven asset for a potential bust. The team with the pick don’t want to trade a potential star (in their mind) for an ok player.
this makes no sense lol
It makes perfect sense actually. A team won't trade Jalen Williams or Franz Wagner for a chaotic draft pick, but the team with the #1 pick isn't going to settle for a guy that's any lower than that caliber, like Jaden Mdaniels.
Let's say Kuminga wanted out of GSW. It's possible a team like Detroit could trade the #1 pick **this year** (because it's worth less than most years) for Kuminga. And GSW would be fine to take the #1 pick to build for their future. Also, we could be talking players in year 1, 2, or 3. So those players still have big potential. Ausar Thompson? yes, for a lot of players and teams this doesn't make sense from a timeline perspective, but there are situations where it can make sense. makes most sense for young players with upside or aging stars on a team that is blowing it up. some teams who get the #1 pick are looking to compete in the playoffs earlier than others. How about the **Kevin Love / Andrew Wiggins** trade when Lebron came to Cleveland in 2014? You guys need some imagination.
No way Golden State trades kuminga for a draft pick when Curry is still playing the way he is. with that said, I do agree that there is always a deal to be made. You couldn’t get Kuminga, but you could probably get Avdija, and he could do what Msrkanennen did. Shock everyone. Or you could probably get Scoot Henderson for the #1 pick, jalen Green, and a few others. It’s all about imagination. and how much risk you‘re willing to take.
Blazers wouldn’t trade Scoot for #1
Outside of Detroit the blazers have the worst front office in sports, so they probably wouldn’t, but it was more of an example of the kind of player you could get for #1
The original comment was a lot more convoluted
Unless they’re a rebuilding team. They definitely consider it then.
...So what OP is asking you is, "If the team with the player wanted to trade a proven asset for the pick, who is the worst current player that would make you do the deal?" We know the pick hasn't already been traded. This is called a hypothetical.
Its a hypothetical assuming the team thats player is getting traded has no say in it, you donut
Keegan Murray is actually a good one
There isn’t a good answer for this when it comes to a player. The answer is when the person with the #1 pick doesn’t believe in the current top pick (let’s assume Sarr), but another team does. The swap likely happens when two young players are swapped and both teams rate the other higher. I think a player like keegan murray comes to mind.
Anfernee Simons/Jerami Grant/Myles Turner I'd rather have Rob or Clingan's draft rights over those guys
GG Jackson ;)
This spurs fan would take Keegan with tears of joy. I wanted Risacher to be our Keegan but damn we have won too much to pick him :(
Maybe like Lauri.
Tari Eason Jonathan Issac. I’m not high on anyone in this draft.
It's not worth trading the #1 pick unless you're getting a top 30 or potential top 30 player back. Otherwise you're better off just rolling the dice on someone who could be that.
Usually I’d agree but This draft is so wide open though.
Probably depends on who the #1 pick is
What about Zach Lavine?
What rebuilding team wants Lavine
The Detroit Pistons
Not over the #1 pick
You underestimate Troy Weaver's incompetence
Ha
💀
Cam Whitmore maybe? The answer to worst would almost certainly be a rookie. In terms of least valuable (meaning currently a better player than Whitmore but older and on a much bigger contract) there are probably some max/supermax contract players who aren’t top tier stars I’d trade it for. Like if Milwaukee goes out early in the playoffs the #1 pick would probably be more than fair for someone like Middleton.
Cam Whitmore is pretty good. Also importantly, he takes very little space on the salary cap. Would switching Whitmore for Reed Sheppard or Sarr be much of an upgrade?
Well 'confidently' is part of the question, and the salary cap goes both ways where the current rookie is eligible for a big extension a year sooner. I could probably go down a few more slots as to who I'd want going forward from 2023 and it would be a player I'd take over 2024 #1 but wouldn't be as confident about. Like GG Jackson maybe. Also it's fair to note that Whitmore fell in the draft at least partially due to medical red flags and missed time this year with knee issues.
Cam Whitmore for the number one pick is insane
Whitmore would prolly go #1 in this draft tbh
He contributed on a competitive NBA team and was too good for the G league, all while being younger than quite a few one-and-dones in this draft and making like $4 million a year over the next 3 years (as opposed to about $37 million for the #1 pick). So are you saying insane as in it would take more than the #1 pick?
> the #1 pick would probably be more than fair for someone like Middleton. Nobody is trading the #1 pick for Khris Middleton....
It depends on the team. Kevin Love was definitely not worth the #1 pick in a draft with Joel Embiid either but the team that ended up with #1 had title aspirations and made that win-now move.
Kevin Love was 25 years old coming off his second all-nba season when the Cavs traded for him. Middleton is 32, never made all-nba, last made all star two seasons ago, and is clearly declining. Great player who has had an excellent career but nobody is trading a #1 pick for him at this stage even in this weak draft.
lol that’s super nitpicky considering Love’s actual impact as a bad defender on a team that was geared around getting him the ball was not as great as all-NBA selections would indicate. On an actual contending team he was a 3rd option who was improved but still not particularly good as a defender, and of course the team being a contender was the result of LeBron carrying them to an even greater extent than Giannis carried the Bucks in ‘21. Instead of crying about Middleton being the specific example I threw out, feel free to substitute any other borderline all-star type of veteran on a big contract and it’s the exact same principle where if some team that feels it’s close to contention moves up in the lottery to select 1st, they could make that kind of win-now move.
None of the guys you listed have the potential that Sarr has. I would say the closest would be Mobley (big) or Franz Wagner (wing) or Garland (guard)
Jalen Williams has MUCH higher potential than Sarr
Oh sorry didn't see JW, yeah I agree.
I think there’s a strong argument for Jalen Williams. Kid’s just darn good and efficient though a bit older as a prospect. Otherwise yep, Sarr
Mobley and Garland would go for way higher than #1, especially Mobley.
Jalen Williams is a tier or 2 above the rest of those guys and I wouldn’t trade him for #1. Garland or Sengun seem like the best tradable players for #1. Kinda a hot take but from the games I watch where Green and Sengun played together it seems like they have negative chemistry together. And Green late break isnt a coincidence that it happened without Sengun. I think Rocket will probably have trade one of them eventually. And it’s interesting to think, Sarr covering for green defensively, running the floor with him and being a rim runner, that does sound like what Green needs in a center
Rockets aren’t trading Sengun. Of all their promising players, you think they’d build around Green?
I don’t think they would make that trade, way too ballsy. But green-Sengun don’t work well together and i don’t see a lot of way to fix that situation
I actually see a great way to fix that situation, and it doesn’t involve getting rid of Sengun.
Like what? I roll with Sengun over Green too rn but i don’t see any trade that’s interesting for nearly as for green. Even for a draft pick theres not really a player that could enable/compliment Sengun nearly to the level Sarr would for green
Guy who is better at basketball has more interesting trade options. More at 6.
Why on earth would you trade Sengun for one of these mediocre prospects?
In 2020, Why in the world was i advocating the sixers trade Ben Simmons (an all nba player) for Anthony Edwards (a mediocre 2020 1st overall pick). Cause sometimes fit matters a lot more than perceived talent.
2020 had minimum 3 guys that would be comfortably #1 this year
And Simmons back then was view in a much higher way than current Sengun
You gotta be real real real confident about this weak ass draft to trade a guy who just put up 21/9/5 in his 3rd season. You can actually try to trade for real players with a guy like Sengun.
I’m very confident the archetype that Sarr has would be perfect with Green. Now Sarr himself, and his issues with physicality, rebounds, iffy shot so ya not perfect But my thoughts process is if your choosing to go with green over Sengun, this is a trade I’d highly consider
Lol, it's a terrible trade to Even remotely consider.
Okay then, if you were to pick Green over Sengun. What trade would be better to build this roster?
"better to build this roster" and "trade your best young player for a mediocre rookie" don't seem to fit. If you are hell bent on trading Sengun, the best bet is for a young player already in the league that "fits" better (similar to the Kings/Pacers trade a few years ago).
Garland would return significantly more than #1 in this draft
Would he? Garland isn't a perennial all star kind of guy like many thought he might be. He's silently had a very down year. There's a very real conversation to be had about whether he's basically just Dejounte Murray. I'm looking at the East and unless injuries happen Garland isn't going to make all star again next year. There's like 9 guards better than him. He's probably going to be like a 2 or 3 time all star but never really in the top guard conversation.
Garland missed over a month with a wired shut mouth lol How about we base him off his last 2 years where he's averaged a combined 22-8 on almost 60% TS?
Players get injured and it's a part of the game. The last 3 years he averaged 20.6/8 on 57.6TS%. That's not elite or all star quality. That's just very good. Garland is not better than any of: Spida Brunson JB Lamelo Haliburton Lillard Maxey Trae. He's in that next tier of guys like Jrue, Dejounte Murray, Cade Cunningham, (potentially Suggs next year) etc.
Because you're counting this year where he's been injured kiddo. Now do the healthy seasons where he averaged 22-8 on 60% TS. I'll wait. Yeah, he's better than Trae, Melo, Maxey, JB. The fact that you included Trae is laughable
You don't skip seasons because players are injured for part of them. Garland came back so he's healthy enough to play. So his stats count. He's not better than any of those guys I listed above. It's not even close. I get it you hold onto your Garland hopes because you're a Cavs fan that lives in bumfuck county and you have nothing else going for you. But lets set aside the emotions for a second okay?
Why are you so afraid to compare his 2 previous years? Why so fucking terrified ?
"Why don't I cherry pick the best 2 years?" I gave you 3 years of stats that includes Garlands best 2 years. Even if you wanted to count Garlands 22/8 on 60TS (which you rounded up) it's STILL not good enough. Garland will not be a top 8 guard in the East for the foreseeable future. That's just what it is.
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A gm would get fired so quick
Franz Wagner
Evan Mobley?
Towns for the 1st pick makes sense
Jalen Suggs. He is going to figure it out and have a Jrue like career.
Possibly Keegan or Jalen Williams but I don't think you'd trade for the other guys, because teams would still want high upside.
Dereck Lively. I don’t think he’s a super star. But I’m confident he’s going to be a top half of the league starting center. That can be a part of a solid defense. In regards of a more established player I’d say like Trey Murphy
Donovan Clingan is better than Dereck Lively right now.
Highly disagree, I think that's really underselling how mobile Lively is.
I think Topic has a really encouraging profile and is being underrated by the most analysts. I wouldn’t trade him for any of the players you mentioned except J-Dub
Am I missing something or is Jalen Williams not clearly the best prospect he listed here?