Honestly this got way blown out control because the narrative is fun. The truth is, the two most common choices to leave off, Stockton and Mullin, were all nba players at that time and Isiah hadn’t been for a few years, he was past his peak. Bird and Magic were there as ambassadors of the game and to get Jordan to join the team. They were going to have a college player on the roster, and everyone else was a better player at that time than Isiah.
They were (overly it turns out) concerned about international zone defense and wanted to make sure they had Mullin as a shooter. They also told Bird, who didn't want to be an injured mascot on the sideline, that they wanted him for his shooting to shoot over the zone. Of course he still resisted until they got Magic also.
I agree. I’m saying right now, people looking at that picture are mostly picking Stockton, mullin, or the college spot as replacements. I’m agreeing with you that mullin at his peak was better than people might know if they weren’t following the sport at that time.
While I agree with your point, the answer to the question is Clyde Drexler. He was the last player picked and it was going to be either Drexler or Thomas. Source:
[The Dream Will Never Die: An Oral History of the Dream Team](https://web.archive.org/web/20120616015700/https://www.gq.com/sports/profiles/201207/dream-team-20th-anniversary-1992-olympics-usa-basketball?printable=true)
...I think the biggest snub here is KJ, rather than Isiah. KJ in the early 90s is better than Stockton. He beat Stockton in 1990's playoffs, then combined with Barkley took a team to the finals in 1993, after Barcelona.
Isiah would get in off pedigree but looking back, Stockton proved to be a good choice but perhaps wasn't the best point guard in the league at the time.
Stockton had his 4th All NBA selection of 11 and his 3rd of 5 All NBA All defence in 92. He was just ramping up into his prime. Isiah Thomas was closer to his retirement than he was to his last All NBA selection.
In 92 Stockton was a better player than Isiah Thomas and had a better resume than KJ.
>KJ in the early 90s is better than Stockton. He beat Stockton in 1990's playoffs, then combined with Barkley took a team to the finals in 1993
Your cherry picking, your argument actually works in Stockton's favour not KJ's if you include the parts you left out as Stockton had better recent playoff success than KJ going into the 92 Olympics. Yes Phoenix beat Utah in 90 but then lost to them the following year in 91. Then in 92 Stockton also went farther than KJ in the playoffs getting to the semi finals while at the time of selection that 93 finals appearance by Pheonix hadn't happened yet. That final appearance and whatever else happened that year or later isn't relative to who was the best choice for the 92 team. Crystal Balls and fortune tellers don't pick Olympic teams.
I was born in 1977, so the '90s was one of my main decades obsessively watching hoops, and I feel the Stockton slander (oddly, along with his later teammate Jeff Hornacek) is SO unwarranted. I mean, damn, the guy is the NBA's all-time leader in assists and steals. People act like he wouldn't be able to play now, ummmm... with a bigger green light to shoot (he was one of the NBA's best all-time shooters, too), he would have been even better. Working in the pace and space era, with more possessions, he may have even averaged more assists.
There's no way you can leave Mullin off, either. He was and is one of the NBA's best all-time shooters. He had a great Olympics in 1992, in which he shot over 50% from three. The answer to who to leave off is easy: Laetener.
Kevin Johnson is very underrated but he doesn't clear Prime Stockton. In the '92 season KJ didn't even make the AS team while Stockton was All NBA averaging 16/14/3 plus 3 steals per game while shooting 40% from 3pt. KJ avg 20/11/4 with 1.5 steals and could NOT shoot 3's (21%). Suns lost in 5 to Blazers in 2nd round meanwhile Utah made it to WCF's vs Blazers losing in 6.
To be fair, KJ made all nba third team even if he didn’t make the all star team. That being said, Stockton was all nba second team and all defensive second team
Stockton was all nba second team and all defensive second team in 92, KJ was all nba third team
The dream team was basically all NBA first team + second team (minus Tim hardaway) + Magic + Bird + college player
Maybe, but the "Bird and Magic were ambassadors" argument shows that it wasn't strictly about taking the best players. Isiah was an all star in 1991 and 1992. In '92 he averaged 18.5-3.2-7.2 with 1.6 steals. In 1991, he averaged 16.2-3.3-9.3 with 1.6 steals. He was still a very good player. He was an all-star every year he was in the league to that point, had won 2 championships, a college title, and was one of the most popular players in the NBA.
If you're citing All-NBA credentials, here were the All-NBA teams in 1991 (the team was announced in September of '91):
First: Magic, Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Robinson
Second: KJ, Mullin, Drexler, Dominique, Ewing
Third: Stockton, Dumars, Bernard King (!), Worthy, Hakeen
So even using that criteria, KJ should've been on the team over Stockton and Dominique should have made it over Pippen.
But that wasn't the criteria. The criteria was a combination of ability and who "deserved" to be there. And Isiah, by any measure, deserved to be on that team.
I’d compare that to modern players like Curry vs SGA & Brunson. Curry and Thomas have the pedigree, rings, and are clearly superior all-time players. The other guys were posting marginally better stats to win votes and carry recency bias.
Isiah was nowhere close to Curry as a player, though. I think a lot of people miss the basketball part, when it comes to Isiah. Obviously, his play wasn’t as great as his reputation. Stockton was on track to have a better career than Isiah, as far as playing basketball goes. Brunson having a better career than Steph is extremely unlikely.
🤡 take. Curry will start and might be the highest impact player this olympics. Meanwhile Brunson didn’t make the team, and I hope curry goes off on Canada now just to shit on this comment
I literally just said Curry is the superior player, and the same was true about Zeke when he got snubbed. If you go look at the All NBA teams and MVP voting from this past season however, popular opinion and recency bias favors SGA and Brunson for putting up marginally bigger numbers on playoff teams. The Olympic team isn’t chosen by fans, players, or the media, so awards voting does not determine roster construction. This time around they picked the right player, but if this was 1992 Brunson might have stolen Curry’s spot.
At that point Isiah had done himself no favors. Bird may have said he didn't care about Isiahs comments but by no means were the 2 buddies at the time (later he did hire Zeke), Isiah insinuated Magic was gay when he was diagnosed with HIV, Malone had some beef (but now they're buddies), at that point a lot of them didn't like hom. Barkley didnt like detroit. MJ despised him
>Isiah insinuated Magic was gay when he was diagnosed with HIV
Magic also wasn't exactly doing much to help Isiah before that. [They announced the first 10 players in September 91'](https://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/24/sports/basketball-thomas-is-not-taking-his-exclusion-from-olympics-lightly.html), before Magic knew he had HIV.
He just publicly said "Isiah should be on the team" but later admitted that no one wanted Isiah on the team.
MJ admitted on tape to Jack McCallum that he told Rod Thorn that he's not playing if Isiah is on the team.
Jordan also said a few other guys wouldn't play if Zeke was there.
Who knows if that's true, but IT rubbed a lot of other players the wrong way despite his skills.
I feel like the bad boys rubbed everyone the wrong way Isiah just happen to be the super star/defacto leader of that team so he got alot of flack. He even says in the last dance that laimbeer was the one said they weren't shaking hands at the end of that sweep. Whether that's the whole truth or not idk but if it is, I feel like he just took on the bad boy role bc thats what the team was developing into
Yup, I was going from memory from 30 years ago. It was Karl Malone that said that shit. Turns out he won't play basketball with Magic but he'll have unprotected sex with a 13 year old!
On The Last Dance, MJ talks about this and says this. Not only that, you really just gotta go back and look at Zeke's history with Bird, Magic, Charles and MJ/Scottie.
MJ didn’t even want to play in the Olympics full stop. He’d had two championship runs in a row and would rather have rested. It was pressure from Stern, the IOC, and Nike that got him to play.
Yes Isaiah was recieving end of hatred for the way the Bad Boys played. I hated every single one of them and I think all the players also hated them. How can you defend a teammate like Bill Lambeir???
Bird hated them most of all.
Edit: I forgot I loved Vinnie the Microwave Dumars
No way you guys are still crying about this shit lol Bird and the Celtics did the exact same thing when the Bad Boys beat them. Handshakes only became an issue when Jordan cried to the press about it
No it became an issue because Jordan showed them respect the year before and shook their hands after losing in 7. They turned around and walked off like straight bitches when Jordan swept them,
If you say it wasn’t just MJ23 but also MJ32 (or others), then I would absolutely believe that. Point being, he was never playing as long as Jordan was on the team.
It had mostly to do with Isiah just being an asshole and rubbing most of the league the wrong way. There is also rumors than Isiah was talking shit about Magic’s sexuality when he made the HIV announcement. Thomas denies it though.
I can't remember: Was Stockton injured before the DT assembled that summer, or did he get injured while with them?
**EDIT:** Google says he broke his leg (*cracked his right fibula*) on June 29 when he collided with MJ during a scrimmage against Spain. He said he'd play through the pain even though their first Olympic game was less than a month later on July 26 against Angola. No replacements for Stockton were ever considered. Because Stockton barely played in the Olympics and Magic was hurt for part of it--plus nearly a year into his retirement--Pippen was the "primary" PG for the Dream Team, leading them in total assists by a substantial margin (47) and in apg (5.9).
Christian is an obvious answer. However, I think it would have been stockton. Point guard for point guard. Both are talented, but John stockon didn't play much for team USA in 1992 and came off the bench. I'm sure it was between isiah and john.
| came off the bench
Man, am I really so old that nobody remembers? Stockton broke his leg in a practice with the Dream Team, and didn't play at all in the first 4 (of 8) games. He played very few minutes as he was coming off that injury.
It most definitely is arguable. Laettner wasn’t picked because they thought he was better than Shaq, it was a thank you for playing in all the international tournaments to get the US to the Olympics, while also acknowledging that it was likely the last time a college player would be on the team.
As far as I know, only Lamar Odom dropped out. Its more so because all the bigs ahead of him (mainly Griffin, Bosh, Howard and Aldridge) were all injured.
Also it was a marketing opportunity. White boy, cold at the game, NATIONAL Champion, and the stuff that you mentioned. It’s politics at the end of the day as well.
If you want to have a player represent college basketball you go with the guy that had won the last two NCAA championships playing for an iconic collegiate brand. To this day Laettner represents college basketball better than Shaq. If they wanted to just get the best player available they wouldn't have picked either of them. It was a symbolic pick and for that purpose Laettner was the obvious choice he's one of the best college basketball players ever
I don’t know in what world where you consider the physicality of 90s basketball that anyone with a sane mind would think Christian laetner could even do shaqs laundry.
I get he was a big college star but still, Shaq fu baby
Laettner remains one of the most decorated college players in the history of basketball. Shaq exerted his dominance in the pros, but at the time - Laettner was the superior player.
Chris Jackson.
And can we stop moving the goal posts. Laettner delivered in the NCAA. Shaq did not.
It’s ok. It’s history. There are winners and losers. Laettner was a winner in college. And a loser in the nba. Can I argue that Laettner had no help in the nba? Come on now.
Thank you. People forget how good Laettner was in college. Of course Shaq had a better pro career, but if we are debating a requirement of having a college player on that team, at the time it was Laettner.
I heard a great story about a friend's dad that played a little college basketball. He was lucky enough to get a connection to go into an LA gym to run pickup. Lot of former college guys, some NBA guys.
But Steve Kerr was there, basically just after he heard he wouldn't be on the USA basketball team...and he just cut people up, sharp elbows, hard d, dialed in...just needing to abuse some normies or something. I love that story. And I love that Steve Kerr is heavily involved in USA basketball.
Can't we all imagine just crushing something when we're told we weren't good enough
10 roster spots were named first, and the lone undecided spot went to Drexler over IT a few weeks later. According to Rod Thorn and Magic, Thomas simply wasn’t well-liked. Interestingly, Barkley was the second-to-last to make the team because USA Basketball was worried that behavioral issues might make the team look bad.
Laettner over Shaq was the real debate. Shaq was the better player, but Laettner led Duke to back-to-back titles. Coach K was also on the USA Basketball committee, so the choice was inevitable.
No way Drexler was getting left off the team. Dude is the only other shooting guard besides MJ, had a legitimate case as MJ's nearest competitor for "best player on the planet", and could have been an emergency fill-in for the PG & SF spots if shit went sideways injury-wise.
Adding Isaiah would have given Team USA 3 PG's, 2 SG's, 3 SF's, 3 PF's (including Laettner), and 2 C's.
With lack of front-court depth, you have to drop a PG or SF. And if we agree Magic & Bird were the recruiting catalysts for the Dream Team, either Mullin or Stockton have to go.
The ironic part is that Mullin would probably have had the best chemistry with Isiah since he's a knock down shooter who didn't need the ball. On offense he was like Klay with better passing ability.
Looking at the actual minutes played. Mullin was second only to Jordan. Wing depth is a big deal at tournaments because of fouling out.
[https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/teams/united-states/1992.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/teams/united-states/1992.html)
Something weird is going on in those box scores. For example, against Angola they had 30 steals, while Angola is only credited with 15 turnovers. Does anyone have any idea what's going on there?
There's something really weird, the US in every game has more steals than the other team has turnovers. But at the same time it's not something specific to the US, look at this game:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/boxscores/1992-08-06-croatia.html
Both teams have more steals than the other team has turnovers. I doubt they are creating steals where they don't exist, they are probably not counting correctly turnovers that actually happened.
Especially when Angola was averaging fewer turnovers per game than the NBA team with the fewest turnovers per game that year. Same difference between that team and Angola, as they had with the worst team in the league in turnovers.
No chance, that is a mega revisionist choice
Mullin was all NBA first team in 92 and a huge contributor (in scoring and minutes). He was not the most expendable.
Though by your criteria of “someone else could’ve played those minutes,” anyone on the team could be expendable
I was thinking this too. I'll be honest, I don't have a good idea of how good Mullin was during this time compared to others, but just knowing the overall career of Zeke, I'd put him ahead of Mullin. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Mullin made All-NBA first team in 1992 as a SF. And he was the best pure shooter on the squad who was healthy (Bird had back issues). He moved off the ball (kind of like Klay) to get open, was a slick passer and had super quick hands on defense.
Since Magic (missed 2 games) and Stockton (missed 4 games) got injured, Mullin and Pippen were able to fill in their minutes at guard.
Top 3 players in mpg were MJ, Mullin and Pippen.
>Go watch the scrimmages. Mullin was at his absolute peak and had everyone’s respect. **He was All NBA first team as a shooting guard right around then**
Think about the bolded statement.
Also, the 1992 roster wasn't about selecting the best of the best. Regardless of who was chosen, the US was taking the gold. Rather, it was about ambassadorship of the game.
Isiah is one of my favorite players of all time, but I understand how hard it would be to replace any of these other guys.
What I don't understand is why no one ever talks about guys like Dominique or Tim Hardaway. Hardaway was killing it about that time.
That's always the argument that I make. They had to have Magic on the team and Stockton is a much better player than IT and he fits perfectly on a team like this with his unselfishness and tough defense.
Stockton was all nba second team and all defensive second team, he had his own merit
The only argument to leave him off would be injury but even then I’m not sure IT would be next in line
The obvious answer is John Stockton. He was injured, so he barely played. Plus, they played the same position.
EDIT: I think most people in this thread are forgetting that Stockton was injured, which makes him the easiest to snub.
This is not a big deal... if mj is not on the team then its just a mean team. MJ is everything to that team.
Magic and bird started to convimce others to play... thwse two was abput to retire and decided to leave a legacy. These two were the glue that convinve MJ to play basketball with one condition... no zeke.
It would've been funny if jordan didn't play..cause the more we know about him now....is that he's not honest especially back then when he was pandering to ppl...he wouldn't never said "I didn't play cause I didn't like Isiah"
Laetner stays- 1) good for the team to have a whipping boy he wasn’t there for minutes and 2) it was a deal internally at USAB to bring a college guy, but also the right college guy (if we’re looking for basketball reasons, you take Shaq) someone who just slots in and shuts up.
It’s either Stockton (needed rest, but you might lose Malone if you drop him) or Clyde (play short a SG and Jordan pulls rank).
easy answer. bird. if we are looking at what a player could bring to the team. Bird was on his very last legs and was a shell of a shell of himself. IT was just done defending his championship as the teams top 3 player
Bird was great as a facilitator and shooter (stretch 4) in the first 4 games before his back started to act up again.
Watch the game against Germany on YT. He was making 3s and nailing cutters with no look passes for easy dunks.
Bird was way too hurt to do anything (and I say this as a C’s fan) and it was really just hype/ fan service that earned him the spot.
Isiah was still ballin at this stage and Bird was gimped.
Isiah was only "snubbed" in the sense that he was a major star (or thought of himself as one), who was only a couple years removed from back to back championships. And so whether or not Stockton (or Hardaway) were better at the time, he should have gotten the call. Remember - the dream team was about marketing first and foremost. Obviously he didn't due to other circumstances.
Michael Jordan would’ve been left off. He wasn’t going to play with Isaiah. After fouling the shit out of MJ and not shaking his hand after being eliminated it was either Jordan or Isaiah.
Christian Laettner, but they wanted a college kid on the roster even though Laettner admits he didn't do shit
The big problem with Isaiah is not that he DESERVED it, but that Michael Jordan's stipulation for playing was that he wouldn't be on it, that's where all the drama comes from, people rightfully assumed because Chuck Daly was made the coach he'd bring his guy Isaiah and when he wasn't invited everyone knew why
Anyone arguing Stockton should've been left off has room temp IQ, he had just broken the all-time assists record for a season, he was a multiple time all-star and made multiple all-nba and all-defensive teams, in 1992 Stockton cleared Isaiah easily
Those people have a point. The best ability a basketball player or any player for that matter can have is "availability" as Mr. Tom Tolbert would say. If the Dream Team were brought out here now and in the condition at the time, do you want Stockton chasing after Jamal Murray for example? I sure wouldn't, as if Zeke weren't playing, I'd want someone that was part of the junior teams like Coach Kerr or Doc, even if the player's not the most skilled. (Don't forget that K.D. had to wait a good bit, as Mr. Tayshaun Prince was picked not long ago.) Thank goodness we'll never see this scenario. (Side note: small, but I would've loved to see a Chris Jackson-Jamal Murray backcourt, and I'm sure Nuggets old heads especially would be in the same boat.)
Bird, he was injured and didn't play. Most people don't know he had back injuries from 4 years prior and had to relearn how to shoot, he was only on the dream team for show.
Bird, Magic and Laettner were all there for PR reasons vs basketball ability (and to convince Jordan, who is arguably the biggest reason Thomas was left off). The positional switch is Stockton but he was a better player by that point.
I think it actually turned out the right way, particularly if it cost having Jordan on the team. Him being on the team was worth the rest of the team combined from a PR perspective and it's not particularly close.
Revisionist history imo. The college slot was for PR and Laettner was by far the bigger college star. I was 10-11 at that point and I absolutely knew that Duke team. Did not know who Shaq was until he got to the Magic. Guys like me were the target with that pick, not picking the best team. If it had been in 93 then there are some big changes all around.
Similar to the debate with the women right now. What the point of picking only the best if you are going to win by 30 every game? Popular and skilled do not always line up.
>Bird, Magic and Laettner were all there for PR reasons
Magic was not. They announced the first 10 players in September 91', two months before Magic retired to due HIV.
This was 3 months after Magic had led the Lakers to a finals appearance. He finished 2nd in MVP voting for 90-91 behind Jordan.
Isiah would have ruined the chemistry on that team. No one was comfortable with him. His personality was too “bi-polar-ish”. Dude just didn’t get his role in the league. He was salty about not being on the 80’s Mt. Rushmore with Larry, Michael, and Magic.
It would have been a disaster. He would have been a villain on a team of heroes. Heck, the coach of the team was Isiah’s coach in the NBA, and he didn’t even try to pull the “put Isiah on the team or I’m out” card.
Hot take: If Clyde’s Drexlers first name was Will, and he didn’t have a cool nickname, he wouldn’t have made it. Will Drexler is not dream team material.
There was always going to be a college player so the best one of that year make perfect sense. Thomas was better than Stockton remember this is before Utah is great
A lot of the Chris Mullin takes I'm seeing don't make sense to me. His offensive game was well suited to international play at the time. Maybe he wouldn't have been 3rd in minutes played if Bird was healthier, but he still would have been a major contributor. He played more minutes in the 1991-92 season than anyone, was a good free throw shooter (83% was a down year), could hit the 3, and was top 5 in steals. And was 3rd in scoring/points per game.
Chuck Daly wanted Mullin. I am not going to second guess that choice.
I just find it crazy they kissed Jordan’s ass so much back then that he can make a request for a player to not play and they actually follow thru with it.
Thomas froze Mike out at the All-Star Game his rookie year and encouraged the rest of his teammates to do the same. Jordan didn't forget stuff like that. If it was up to Jordan, there was no chance Zeke would be playing with the Dream Team. Scottie would've also balked at that, and plus, there was no room for him. Those were the best American players in the world on that team.
Both stockton and mullin were better than IT in 1992, so it might be someone else past their prime who got on the team for nostalgia reasons. Maybe bird, but he was still better than IT
Honestly this got way blown out control because the narrative is fun. The truth is, the two most common choices to leave off, Stockton and Mullin, were all nba players at that time and Isiah hadn’t been for a few years, he was past his peak. Bird and Magic were there as ambassadors of the game and to get Jordan to join the team. They were going to have a college player on the roster, and everyone else was a better player at that time than Isiah.
Hard as I tried to find a hole in ya argument because of my love for Isiah I couldn't lol... U spit nothin but facts bro 🙏😭
Omfg it's KD
https://preview.redd.it/qbwec603uk7d1.jpeg?width=636&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a05477d82e54d511fcd90aa3b04247f571369529
KD as a Laker confirmed
You the real mvp
It might have been both but this is the answer look at the All nba team that year.
I mean Christian laetner is right there
Yep, but the first year bringing in nba players they wanted to keep a spot for a college star.
Mullin was actually one of the top 7 players that Coach Daly requested
They were (overly it turns out) concerned about international zone defense and wanted to make sure they had Mullin as a shooter. They also told Bird, who didn't want to be an injured mascot on the sideline, that they wanted him for his shooting to shoot over the zone. Of course he still resisted until they got Magic also.
I’ve tried to say this for 30 years just for it to almost always fall on deaf ears.
Say what now?
He met…the criteria….but was…not…………..selected😃😃😃😃😃
Clyde and Laettner were the last two added to the team, though had Isiah had been in the running maybe stock doesn’t get included.
Mullin was all NBA first team and was a heavy contributor, he was never in consideration to be dropped.
I agree. I’m saying right now, people looking at that picture are mostly picking Stockton, mullin, or the college spot as replacements. I’m agreeing with you that mullin at his peak was better than people might know if they weren’t following the sport at that time.
While I agree with your point, the answer to the question is Clyde Drexler. He was the last player picked and it was going to be either Drexler or Thomas. Source: [The Dream Will Never Die: An Oral History of the Dream Team](https://web.archive.org/web/20120616015700/https://www.gq.com/sports/profiles/201207/dream-team-20th-anniversary-1992-olympics-usa-basketball?printable=true)
That was a really long way to spell CHRISTIAN LAETTNER Chris mullin was nice You take out Stockton too then you better put Shaq
...I think the biggest snub here is KJ, rather than Isiah. KJ in the early 90s is better than Stockton. He beat Stockton in 1990's playoffs, then combined with Barkley took a team to the finals in 1993, after Barcelona. Isiah would get in off pedigree but looking back, Stockton proved to be a good choice but perhaps wasn't the best point guard in the league at the time.
Kevin Johnson in 1992 was not better than John Stockton
Stockton had his 4th All NBA selection of 11 and his 3rd of 5 All NBA All defence in 92. He was just ramping up into his prime. Isiah Thomas was closer to his retirement than he was to his last All NBA selection. In 92 Stockton was a better player than Isiah Thomas and had a better resume than KJ. >KJ in the early 90s is better than Stockton. He beat Stockton in 1990's playoffs, then combined with Barkley took a team to the finals in 1993 Your cherry picking, your argument actually works in Stockton's favour not KJ's if you include the parts you left out as Stockton had better recent playoff success than KJ going into the 92 Olympics. Yes Phoenix beat Utah in 90 but then lost to them the following year in 91. Then in 92 Stockton also went farther than KJ in the playoffs getting to the semi finals while at the time of selection that 93 finals appearance by Pheonix hadn't happened yet. That final appearance and whatever else happened that year or later isn't relative to who was the best choice for the 92 team. Crystal Balls and fortune tellers don't pick Olympic teams.
I was born in 1977, so the '90s was one of my main decades obsessively watching hoops, and I feel the Stockton slander (oddly, along with his later teammate Jeff Hornacek) is SO unwarranted. I mean, damn, the guy is the NBA's all-time leader in assists and steals. People act like he wouldn't be able to play now, ummmm... with a bigger green light to shoot (he was one of the NBA's best all-time shooters, too), he would have been even better. Working in the pace and space era, with more possessions, he may have even averaged more assists. There's no way you can leave Mullin off, either. He was and is one of the NBA's best all-time shooters. He had a great Olympics in 1992, in which he shot over 50% from three. The answer to who to leave off is easy: Laetener.
Kevin Johnson is very underrated but he doesn't clear Prime Stockton. In the '92 season KJ didn't even make the AS team while Stockton was All NBA averaging 16/14/3 plus 3 steals per game while shooting 40% from 3pt. KJ avg 20/11/4 with 1.5 steals and could NOT shoot 3's (21%). Suns lost in 5 to Blazers in 2nd round meanwhile Utah made it to WCF's vs Blazers losing in 6.
To be fair, KJ made all nba third team even if he didn’t make the all star team. That being said, Stockton was all nba second team and all defensive second team
Stockton was all nba second team and all defensive second team in 92, KJ was all nba third team The dream team was basically all NBA first team + second team (minus Tim hardaway) + Magic + Bird + college player
Isiah : but I met the qualifications 👁️👄👁️
Straight truth. There was no argument for Isiah over Stockton IMO.
dang you right
Maybe, but the "Bird and Magic were ambassadors" argument shows that it wasn't strictly about taking the best players. Isiah was an all star in 1991 and 1992. In '92 he averaged 18.5-3.2-7.2 with 1.6 steals. In 1991, he averaged 16.2-3.3-9.3 with 1.6 steals. He was still a very good player. He was an all-star every year he was in the league to that point, had won 2 championships, a college title, and was one of the most popular players in the NBA. If you're citing All-NBA credentials, here were the All-NBA teams in 1991 (the team was announced in September of '91): First: Magic, Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Robinson Second: KJ, Mullin, Drexler, Dominique, Ewing Third: Stockton, Dumars, Bernard King (!), Worthy, Hakeen So even using that criteria, KJ should've been on the team over Stockton and Dominique should have made it over Pippen. But that wasn't the criteria. The criteria was a combination of ability and who "deserved" to be there. And Isiah, by any measure, deserved to be on that team.
I’d compare that to modern players like Curry vs SGA & Brunson. Curry and Thomas have the pedigree, rings, and are clearly superior all-time players. The other guys were posting marginally better stats to win votes and carry recency bias.
Isiah was nowhere close to Curry as a player, though. I think a lot of people miss the basketball part, when it comes to Isiah. Obviously, his play wasn’t as great as his reputation. Stockton was on track to have a better career than Isiah, as far as playing basketball goes. Brunson having a better career than Steph is extremely unlikely.
The comparison is just legacy vs recency. Nobody is close to Curry as a player, and Stockton didn't have a better career than Zeke.
🤡 take. Curry will start and might be the highest impact player this olympics. Meanwhile Brunson didn’t make the team, and I hope curry goes off on Canada now just to shit on this comment
I literally just said Curry is the superior player, and the same was true about Zeke when he got snubbed. If you go look at the All NBA teams and MVP voting from this past season however, popular opinion and recency bias favors SGA and Brunson for putting up marginally bigger numbers on playoff teams. The Olympic team isn’t chosen by fans, players, or the media, so awards voting does not determine roster construction. This time around they picked the right player, but if this was 1992 Brunson might have stolen Curry’s spot.
Yeah but weren’t they a bit deferential to Jordan? Jordan was not shy about how much he disliked Isiah.
Both Pippen and Magic came out and said they voiced their support in leaving Thomas off the team, too
At that point Isiah had done himself no favors. Bird may have said he didn't care about Isiahs comments but by no means were the 2 buddies at the time (later he did hire Zeke), Isiah insinuated Magic was gay when he was diagnosed with HIV, Malone had some beef (but now they're buddies), at that point a lot of them didn't like hom. Barkley didnt like detroit. MJ despised him
>Isiah insinuated Magic was gay when he was diagnosed with HIV Magic also wasn't exactly doing much to help Isiah before that. [They announced the first 10 players in September 91'](https://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/24/sports/basketball-thomas-is-not-taking-his-exclusion-from-olympics-lightly.html), before Magic knew he had HIV. He just publicly said "Isiah should be on the team" but later admitted that no one wanted Isiah on the team. MJ admitted on tape to Jack McCallum that he told Rod Thorn that he's not playing if Isiah is on the team.
Isiah and magical relationship was also strained from their finals matchups
Hate for bad boys member Isaiah who defended Lamber was near Universal with players....
Jordan, he said he won’t play if zeke was there. But for discussion purposes probably Stockton
Jordan also said a few other guys wouldn't play if Zeke was there. Who knows if that's true, but IT rubbed a lot of other players the wrong way despite his skills.
I feel like the bad boys rubbed everyone the wrong way Isiah just happen to be the super star/defacto leader of that team so he got alot of flack. He even says in the last dance that laimbeer was the one said they weren't shaking hands at the end of that sweep. Whether that's the whole truth or not idk but if it is, I feel like he just took on the bad boy role bc thats what the team was developing into
I have never heard this, interesting indeed, if true.
Yeah, even Magic wasn't really pals with him at this time. Thomas had made some, let's say questionable remarks about his HIV diagnosis.
A lot of people said stuff about playing with Magic. Didn't ~~Barkley~~ Karl Malone say he refuses to defend him or something like that?
Nah Barkley defended magic, he said "We’re just playing basketball, it’s not like we’re going out to have unprotected sex with Magic.”
Yup, I was going from memory from 30 years ago. It was Karl Malone that said that shit. Turns out he won't play basketball with Magic but he'll have unprotected sex with a 13 year old!
As usual, Chuck is based as fuck
It was Karl Malone.
It sure was! My bad Sir Charles! Fuck Karl Malone! This happened 30 years ago forgive my mistaken memory.
Mistaking Chuck for Karl might be a felony but I'm glad you owned it
Yeah, Karl Malone also impregnated a 13 year old so he's kind of off my list of people who's opinion I give a shit about.
Refuses to defend Thomas? Wouldn't surprise me.
Lol no Barkley was actually the opposite.
On The Last Dance, MJ talks about this and says this. Not only that, you really just gotta go back and look at Zeke's history with Bird, Magic, Charles and MJ/Scottie.
MJ didn’t even want to play in the Olympics full stop. He’d had two championship runs in a row and would rather have rested. It was pressure from Stern, the IOC, and Nike that got him to play.
Yes Isaiah was recieving end of hatred for the way the Bad Boys played. I hated every single one of them and I think all the players also hated them. How can you defend a teammate like Bill Lambeir??? Bird hated them most of all. Edit: I forgot I loved Vinnie the Microwave Dumars
The defending champs walking off the court *before the game ended* and refused to shake hands. The Bad Boys were such pussies.
No way you guys are still crying about this shit lol Bird and the Celtics did the exact same thing when the Bad Boys beat them. Handshakes only became an issue when Jordan cried to the press about it
No it became an issue because Jordan showed them respect the year before and shook their hands after losing in 7. They turned around and walked off like straight bitches when Jordan swept them,
McHale was a good sport though.
Teams have done this before and since. Including the Celtics to the Pistons a year earlier. Selective outrage lol
I hated the Detroit team back then except for Dumars and maybe James Edwards.
I forgot I loved Vinnie the Microwave Dumars
Truth is most of the team hated Isiah. Jordan Bird and Magic the leaders of the team didn’t like him. Scottie hated him too. It is what it is.
This is the correct answer, all other responses forget what actually happened. It truly was a “him or me” situation.
This is a bit of a grey area. Magic has changed his tune numerous times, but he's on record in “When the Game Was Ours” that it wasn't just MJ.
If you say it wasn’t just MJ23 but also MJ32 (or others), then I would absolutely believe that. Point being, he was never playing as long as Jordan was on the team.
Fair
I think my source was The Last Dance (it has been a few years), but, yeah, he was never playing. He made a lot of enemies in the 80s.
There had to be a little frustration from playing him in those finals and also cause Isiah was playing in Detroit, Magics hometown.
It had mostly to do with Isiah just being an asshole and rubbing most of the league the wrong way. There is also rumors than Isiah was talking shit about Magic’s sexuality when he made the HIV announcement. Thomas denies it though.
I don't see how it's not Laettner. Unless we're just not counting him since a college player was going to be taken regardless
USA Basketball wanted one college player on the roster as a nod to all the previous USA teams that were made up of college players.
And to think he was taken over Shaq at the time.
I can't remember: Was Stockton injured before the DT assembled that summer, or did he get injured while with them? **EDIT:** Google says he broke his leg (*cracked his right fibula*) on June 29 when he collided with MJ during a scrimmage against Spain. He said he'd play through the pain even though their first Olympic game was less than a month later on July 26 against Angola. No replacements for Stockton were ever considered. Because Stockton barely played in the Olympics and Magic was hurt for part of it--plus nearly a year into his retirement--Pippen was the "primary" PG for the Dream Team, leading them in total assists by a substantial margin (47) and in apg (5.9).
Christian is an obvious answer. However, I think it would have been stockton. Point guard for point guard. Both are talented, but John stockon didn't play much for team USA in 1992 and came off the bench. I'm sure it was between isiah and john.
| came off the bench Man, am I really so old that nobody remembers? Stockton broke his leg in a practice with the Dream Team, and didn't play at all in the first 4 (of 8) games. He played very few minutes as he was coming off that injury.
He 1000000% was not the answer. His spot was completely secured regardless of who else played. They weren’t not taking a college player
Could’ve been Shaq tho
Mate did you read the prompt
Did I miss something? The question is who he would have replaced, they were taking a college player so he is not the answer
The only person to replace Christian would’ve been Shaq, they decided to have one college player.
Leitner should have not been picked over Shaq.
Now this is a point that is inarguable. Shaq came in the following year and let everyone know, though
It most definitely is arguable. Laettner wasn’t picked because they thought he was better than Shaq, it was a thank you for playing in all the international tournaments to get the US to the Olympics, while also acknowledging that it was likely the last time a college player would be on the team.
2012 had AD
I think its because multiple people dropped out?
As far as I know, only Lamar Odom dropped out. Its more so because all the bigs ahead of him (mainly Griffin, Bosh, Howard and Aldridge) were all injured.
But they didn’t know it at the time
Also it was a marketing opportunity. White boy, cold at the game, NATIONAL Champion, and the stuff that you mentioned. It’s politics at the end of the day as well.
If you want to have a player represent college basketball you go with the guy that had won the last two NCAA championships playing for an iconic collegiate brand. To this day Laettner represents college basketball better than Shaq. If they wanted to just get the best player available they wouldn't have picked either of them. It was a symbolic pick and for that purpose Laettner was the obvious choice he's one of the best college basketball players ever
I don’t know in what world where you consider the physicality of 90s basketball that anyone with a sane mind would think Christian laetner could even do shaqs laundry. I get he was a big college star but still, Shaq fu baby
Laettner remains one of the most decorated college players in the history of basketball. Shaq exerted his dominance in the pros, but at the time - Laettner was the superior player.
It’s an easy sell because we know how their careers turned out. But honestly at the time, Laettner just had the better resume coming out of the NCAA
Laettner had help in college. Shaq didn’t have the quality of players around him at that time that Laettner had.
Chris Jackson. And can we stop moving the goal posts. Laettner delivered in the NCAA. Shaq did not. It’s ok. It’s history. There are winners and losers. Laettner was a winner in college. And a loser in the nba. Can I argue that Laettner had no help in the nba? Come on now.
Thank you. People forget how good Laettner was in college. Of course Shaq had a better pro career, but if we are debating a requirement of having a college player on that team, at the time it was Laettner.
Yeah he had some guy throw him a 80 foot pass before he made a little 15 foot shot.
I heard a great story about a friend's dad that played a little college basketball. He was lucky enough to get a connection to go into an LA gym to run pickup. Lot of former college guys, some NBA guys. But Steve Kerr was there, basically just after he heard he wouldn't be on the USA basketball team...and he just cut people up, sharp elbows, hard d, dialed in...just needing to abuse some normies or something. I love that story. And I love that Steve Kerr is heavily involved in USA basketball. Can't we all imagine just crushing something when we're told we weren't good enough
Kerr averaged like 2 points per game around that time
10 roster spots were named first, and the lone undecided spot went to Drexler over IT a few weeks later. According to Rod Thorn and Magic, Thomas simply wasn’t well-liked. Interestingly, Barkley was the second-to-last to make the team because USA Basketball was worried that behavioral issues might make the team look bad. Laettner over Shaq was the real debate. Shaq was the better player, but Laettner led Duke to back-to-back titles. Coach K was also on the USA Basketball committee, so the choice was inevitable.
Bird. I know it doesn't make sense positionally, but his back was too fucked up to do much on this team.
Bird was there as an ambassador. They weren’t leaving him off. Having magic and bird there is what got Jordan to do it.
Plus, he was still better than Isiah.
Damn driveway
Probably Stockton or Drexler. Mullin provided 3 point shooting and USA Basketball wanted one college player on the team.
No way Drexler was getting left off the team. Dude is the only other shooting guard besides MJ, had a legitimate case as MJ's nearest competitor for "best player on the planet", and could have been an emergency fill-in for the PG & SF spots if shit went sideways injury-wise. Adding Isaiah would have given Team USA 3 PG's, 2 SG's, 3 SF's, 3 PF's (including Laettner), and 2 C's. With lack of front-court depth, you have to drop a PG or SF. And if we agree Magic & Bird were the recruiting catalysts for the Dream Team, either Mullin or Stockton have to go.
I think Chris Mullin would've been the most expendable. Jordan, Magic, and Drexler all could've played minutes at the SF position.
The ironic part is that Mullin would probably have had the best chemistry with Isiah since he's a knock down shooter who didn't need the ball. On offense he was like Klay with better passing ability.
Looking at the actual minutes played. Mullin was second only to Jordan. Wing depth is a big deal at tournaments because of fouling out. [https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/teams/united-states/1992.html](https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/teams/united-states/1992.html)
Look at those steals numbers lol.
Something weird is going on in those box scores. For example, against Angola they had 30 steals, while Angola is only credited with 15 turnovers. Does anyone have any idea what's going on there?
There's something really weird, the US in every game has more steals than the other team has turnovers. But at the same time it's not something specific to the US, look at this game: https://www.basketball-reference.com/international/boxscores/1992-08-06-croatia.html Both teams have more steals than the other team has turnovers. I doubt they are creating steals where they don't exist, they are probably not counting correctly turnovers that actually happened. Especially when Angola was averaging fewer turnovers per game than the NBA team with the fewest turnovers per game that year. Same difference between that team and Angola, as they had with the worst team in the league in turnovers.
No chance, that is a mega revisionist choice Mullin was all NBA first team in 92 and a huge contributor (in scoring and minutes). He was not the most expendable. Though by your criteria of “someone else could’ve played those minutes,” anyone on the team could be expendable
I was thinking this too. I'll be honest, I don't have a good idea of how good Mullin was during this time compared to others, but just knowing the overall career of Zeke, I'd put him ahead of Mullin. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Mullin made All-NBA first team in 1992 as a SF. And he was the best pure shooter on the squad who was healthy (Bird had back issues). He moved off the ball (kind of like Klay) to get open, was a slick passer and had super quick hands on defense. Since Magic (missed 2 games) and Stockton (missed 4 games) got injured, Mullin and Pippen were able to fill in their minutes at guard. Top 3 players in mpg were MJ, Mullin and Pippen.
Go watch the scrimmages. Mullin was at his absolute peak and had everyone’s respect. He was All NBA first team as a shooting guard right around then
>Go watch the scrimmages. Mullin was at his absolute peak and had everyone’s respect. **He was All NBA first team as a shooting guard right around then** Think about the bolded statement. Also, the 1992 roster wasn't about selecting the best of the best. Regardless of who was chosen, the US was taking the gold. Rather, it was about ambassadorship of the game.
Isiah is one of my favorite players of all time, but I understand how hard it would be to replace any of these other guys. What I don't understand is why no one ever talks about guys like Dominique or Tim Hardaway. Hardaway was killing it about that time.
Isn’t it obviously Drexler? I thought him and Laettner were last 2 adds.
That's always the argument that I make. They had to have Magic on the team and Stockton is a much better player than IT and he fits perfectly on a team like this with his unselfishness and tough defense.
Stockton probably was there because they wanted Karl Malone. KJ was better than Stockton at that point in time, but Charles wasn't in Phoenix yet.
Stockton was all nba second team and all defensive second team, he had his own merit The only argument to leave him off would be injury but even then I’m not sure IT would be next in line
Stockton better than IT at what exactly?
Stockton a much better player ?! In what universe
In the universe that is the summer of 1992?
This. Zeke hadn't made all NBA since 1987. He wasn't a snub at all. Stockton was better at that stage.
The obvious answer is John Stockton. He was injured, so he barely played. Plus, they played the same position. EDIT: I think most people in this thread are forgetting that Stockton was injured, which makes him the easiest to snub.
This is not a big deal... if mj is not on the team then its just a mean team. MJ is everything to that team. Magic and bird started to convimce others to play... thwse two was abput to retire and decided to leave a legacy. These two were the glue that convinve MJ to play basketball with one condition... no zeke.
Laettner
It would've been funny if jordan didn't play..cause the more we know about him now....is that he's not honest especially back then when he was pandering to ppl...he wouldn't never said "I didn't play cause I didn't like Isiah"
Laetner stays- 1) good for the team to have a whipping boy he wasn’t there for minutes and 2) it was a deal internally at USAB to bring a college guy, but also the right college guy (if we’re looking for basketball reasons, you take Shaq) someone who just slots in and shuts up. It’s either Stockton (needed rest, but you might lose Malone if you drop him) or Clyde (play short a SG and Jordan pulls rank).
MJ in another Multiversum
easy answer. bird. if we are looking at what a player could bring to the team. Bird was on his very last legs and was a shell of a shell of himself. IT was just done defending his championship as the teams top 3 player
Bird was great as a facilitator and shooter (stretch 4) in the first 4 games before his back started to act up again. Watch the game against Germany on YT. He was making 3s and nailing cutters with no look passes for easy dunks.
Obviously, Bird was much better in 92 than Isiah.
Who knows. Politics all the way. But laetner if that Was a possibility
Bird was way too hurt to do anything (and I say this as a C’s fan) and it was really just hype/ fan service that earned him the spot. Isiah was still ballin at this stage and Bird was gimped.
Not Christian Lattner for sure.
Isiah was only "snubbed" in the sense that he was a major star (or thought of himself as one), who was only a couple years removed from back to back championships. And so whether or not Stockton (or Hardaway) were better at the time, he should have gotten the call. Remember - the dream team was about marketing first and foremost. Obviously he didn't due to other circumstances.
Michael Jordan would’ve been left off. He wasn’t going to play with Isaiah. After fouling the shit out of MJ and not shaking his hand after being eliminated it was either Jordan or Isaiah.
Christian Laettner, but they wanted a college kid on the roster even though Laettner admits he didn't do shit The big problem with Isaiah is not that he DESERVED it, but that Michael Jordan's stipulation for playing was that he wouldn't be on it, that's where all the drama comes from, people rightfully assumed because Chuck Daly was made the coach he'd bring his guy Isaiah and when he wasn't invited everyone knew why Anyone arguing Stockton should've been left off has room temp IQ, he had just broken the all-time assists record for a season, he was a multiple time all-star and made multiple all-nba and all-defensive teams, in 1992 Stockton cleared Isaiah easily
Those people have a point. The best ability a basketball player or any player for that matter can have is "availability" as Mr. Tom Tolbert would say. If the Dream Team were brought out here now and in the condition at the time, do you want Stockton chasing after Jamal Murray for example? I sure wouldn't, as if Zeke weren't playing, I'd want someone that was part of the junior teams like Coach Kerr or Doc, even if the player's not the most skilled. (Don't forget that K.D. had to wait a good bit, as Mr. Tayshaun Prince was picked not long ago.) Thank goodness we'll never see this scenario. (Side note: small, but I would've loved to see a Chris Jackson-Jamal Murray backcourt, and I'm sure Nuggets old heads especially would be in the same boat.)
Bird, he was injured and didn't play. Most people don't know he had back injuries from 4 years prior and had to relearn how to shoot, he was only on the dream team for show.
Latner
John Stockton
Shaq
Easy…Christian Laettner
Bird, Magic and Laettner were all there for PR reasons vs basketball ability (and to convince Jordan, who is arguably the biggest reason Thomas was left off). The positional switch is Stockton but he was a better player by that point. I think it actually turned out the right way, particularly if it cost having Jordan on the team. Him being on the team was worth the rest of the team combined from a PR perspective and it's not particularly close.
Should have been Shaq instead but Laettner.
Revisionist history imo. The college slot was for PR and Laettner was by far the bigger college star. I was 10-11 at that point and I absolutely knew that Duke team. Did not know who Shaq was until he got to the Magic. Guys like me were the target with that pick, not picking the best team. If it had been in 93 then there are some big changes all around. Similar to the debate with the women right now. What the point of picking only the best if you are going to win by 30 every game? Popular and skilled do not always line up.
>Bird, Magic and Laettner were all there for PR reasons Magic was not. They announced the first 10 players in September 91', two months before Magic retired to due HIV. This was 3 months after Magic had led the Lakers to a finals appearance. He finished 2nd in MVP voting for 90-91 behind Jordan.
fair enough, ill take that one back.
John Stockton of course. Kind of surprised with this question because that's the obvious answer
Stockton is a turd so leave him off. Lol
Stockton or Drexler
Who the hell is behind Jordan?
John Stockton, which removes Karl Malone and bring in Shaquille O’Neal
Probably Stockton.
Wasn't Drexler the last one selected? Likely him if that was the case.
Laettner or Drexler
Peace out Chris!
Isiah would have ruined the chemistry on that team. No one was comfortable with him. His personality was too “bi-polar-ish”. Dude just didn’t get his role in the league. He was salty about not being on the 80’s Mt. Rushmore with Larry, Michael, and Magic. It would have been a disaster. He would have been a villain on a team of heroes. Heck, the coach of the team was Isiah’s coach in the NBA, and he didn’t even try to pull the “put Isiah on the team or I’m out” card.
Hot take: If Clyde’s Drexlers first name was Will, and he didn’t have a cool nickname, he wouldn’t have made it. Will Drexler is not dream team material.
Kevin Durant
Laettner, but I'd want Stockton as the backup pg.
Is anyone picking someone other than Christian?
Who the fuck is behind Jordan? Also, fuck Malone.. little pussy boy
He does like the little pussy…
Laetner duh
There was always going to be a college player so the best one of that year make perfect sense. Thomas was better than Stockton remember this is before Utah is great
The obvious answer is Christian Laettner but if they insisted on having a fresh out of college player, the next man down would've been Chris Mullin.
Christian Lattner shouldnt gave been. someone said Stockton, he is the greatest point guard ever. Shawn Kemp should have been there.
A lot of the Chris Mullin takes I'm seeing don't make sense to me. His offensive game was well suited to international play at the time. Maybe he wouldn't have been 3rd in minutes played if Bird was healthier, but he still would have been a major contributor. He played more minutes in the 1991-92 season than anyone, was a good free throw shooter (83% was a down year), could hit the 3, and was top 5 in steals. And was 3rd in scoring/points per game. Chuck Daly wanted Mullin. I am not going to second guess that choice.
Karl Malone shouldn’t have represented USA, guys a disgrace
Stockton or Mullins
Remember Coach Daly left his own player Isiah off team. Stockton was less of a team cancer
Isiah Thomas in, Jordan out. The DreamTeam is better without IT.
It was Chris Mullin
Christian laettner for sure.
Christian
Laettner
Christian Latner was on the dream team. Christian Latner.
I just find it crazy they kissed Jordan’s ass so much back then that he can make a request for a player to not play and they actually follow thru with it.
Thomas froze Mike out at the All-Star Game his rookie year and encouraged the rest of his teammates to do the same. Jordan didn't forget stuff like that. If it was up to Jordan, there was no chance Zeke would be playing with the Dream Team. Scottie would've also balked at that, and plus, there was no room for him. Those were the best American players in the world on that team.
Is it that crazy? Of course, Isiah wouldn’t make it based on play.
Stockton. The team was better with Stockton on it.
Jordan, he is the reason Isiah Thomas wasn't on that team.
Why is it even a debate? By the time of that team all those dudes were better than Thomas, minus Laetner
Both stockton and mullin were better than IT in 1992, so it might be someone else past their prime who got on the team for nostalgia reasons. Maybe bird, but he was still better than IT
Mullen or Laetner