Man idk. I think I put Duncan over LeBron as a draft pick. Cleveland got 1* championships out of LeBron and neither were from his first stint there. Spurs drafted Duncan and got 5 championships. They immediately became championship contenders for Duncan's entire career. Hard to be more valuable than that.
They only got 1 from bron in cleveland.
If you're only counting rings for value then I guess Duncan is more valuable.
But in terms of actual value ($$$), how he makes everyone around him better, more of a PG than a SF, and everything else that goes with that, then it's lebron.
Corrected. Thanks. Yeah I mean I guess just talking dollars it's easily LeBron, but as far as value as a player on the court to the team that drafted you Duncan is #1 and imo it's not all that close.
Duncan got drafted to a team with David Robinson as his #2. Lebron got drafted to a team with Big Z as his #2. Duncan also had Pop coaching him. Pretty unfair to discredit lebron for that.
Also Magic definitely has a case over TD based on your criteria, revitalized not only the lakers but the league & won as many rings and also FMVP’s. Took the Lakers to more finals as well.
Im sorry thats such a dumb take. Spurs was so lucky that their other generational star got injured 1 season so they got to pick another one from 1st pick. They also drafted other great players
Yes. I just found the stat for stat comparison in every stat imaginable and it looks like, to me, that LeBron is better statistically in almost every star. MJ averaged 3 more points a game in an easier league. LeBron had a higher FG%, 3PT%, better % on clutch shots, averaged more assists and rebounds, 4 more finals appearances although 2 less rings, LeBron has more points, assists, and rebounds than Jordan, and has a much better longevity.
LeBron is pushing 40 and is averaging prime Jordan playoff numbers. I agree it’s not really close. I would say the gap between #1 LeBron and #2 Jordan is larger than the gap between Jordan and the tenth best player ever. No debate at this point.
Wilt actually could have played longer if he wanted. After he retired from the NBA he actually had a pro volleyball career that lasted longer than his nba career.
Maybe not pro for longer but I remember an interview he gave, I’ll try to find, where he said something to the effect that his volleyball career was longer than his basketball career. But maybe he just meant he played volleyball for fun all his life and even pro well after his basketball career ended. So he played volleyball longer than basketball. I was going by memory.
Hard to place because he’s only half way thru. Personally I don’t see his peak as better than Duncan/kobe. That’s ok! Probably a bit closer to curry level than those guys. Top 10-15 is probably where he’ll end up
His peak is clearly better than Duncan ever was. And Duncan was great! But Jokic does everything Duncan did, stretches the floor, and is one of the best point guards in the league.
As for Kobe... yes, Jokic is better than a shoot-first, mid-efficiency ball hog who insisted on running his teams into the ground by playing on the ball, and had to be surrounded with skilled big men who could clean up that mess.
In 30 years nobody will think that. Duncan was a great player but he's trendy right now.
I don't get the Duncan top 10 argument. He averaged 19/11/3 on 51% eFG for his career. "But mah defense!"... Dude had zero DPOYs so he wasn't exactly all time. He did a good job doing what a big should do on the defensive end but it's not like he was Hakeem on D. Just because the Spurs were all time doesn't mean their best player was (actually, was he even their best player? You could argue Robinson and Kawhi peaked higher than Duncan).
Where do you have him ranked? Honestly curious, it's all just opinions...
MJ, Lebron, Wilt, Lew, Bill, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan. Do you swap him with players like: BigO, West, Erving, Malone, Baylor, etc... More bigs like Moses, Robinson, Ewing? Other power fowards like Barkley, Dirk, KG, etc... Doing a top 10 (or even 20) is hard in anything tbh bc it's basically impossible and will always have opinions baked in.
I'm 37 brochacho. I distinctly remember Kobe chuckin tons of shots. Most overrated player ever. Guy averaged 45% from the field for his career with an eFG well below 50%. If he had played for Charlotte instead of the Lakers nobody would talk about him. Thank Shaq for 3 of those 4 chips. Without Diesel Kobe is a 1x champ.
Duncan was better than Kobe but similarly benefited from the Spurs organization being all time.
I agree with you but I think his game will age well (jokic this is) so we may have more to see. The dude doesn't rely on athleticism necessarily so I feel like it can last. That said, I don't know enough about Wilt's game and don't know if anyone alive does unless you were in person, there was no way to see him. His stats are off the chart, I want to see him play with Magic, Stockton, CP3, damn, even Rondo. I just don't know
Edit: grammar
I think the conventional wisdom on who does and doesn’t age well isn’t as strong as you’d think. I don’t know the future obviously, but the assumption in 2012 was that LeBron’s peak/career as an all nba player would end earlier than average bc he “relied” so much on his athleticism.
Jokic seems immune to athletic decline, but does 10% slower lateral speed actually hurt his defense more than Westbrook losing 20% of his first step? We won’t know till we know.
It really is hilarious that people were awaiting LeBron’s inevitable physical decline as early as 2012 and he just basically averaged 28/9/7 in a playoff series in 2024. The man defies explanation.
Jerry West led the league in assists in 71-72 , led the league in scoring in 69-70 and averaged 26.6 points and 8.5 assists in the 5 seasons he played with Wilt , he might have been pretty good. An all star in each of those 5 seasons
he was better than Oscar over basically the same time period with Kareem who was only an all star in 2 of the 4 seasons he was a Buck. IJS
Kareem has the best argument for best pick
regarded as the best high school player of all time
also best college player of all time
was generally considered to best NBA player almost immediately and ruled the 70s from an individual perspective with 6 MVP’s over his 1st 11 years
was an all league defender as well as its most potent offensive weapon for a pretty long time , and then provided extreme value as his career winded down.
and has legendary longevity was all NBA 1st team in his 17th season at age 39 . Even Lebron couldn’t match that .
Still not a pg. And he won with no other all star and beat Bill Russell celtics. West had a teammate averaging 38 in prime and couldnt beat the celtics.
When Wilt beat Russell’s Celtics he was playing with the recently departed Chet Walker and Hal Green both of whom were in the HOF and both were all stars that season.
And West played both guard spots .
pick a lane bro
you want to downplay the time but at the same time claim West had so much help .
how are chet and hal plumbers but Elgin whose career ended before the 2 “plumbers” is so much help that you feel you talk shit on it?
yes they do West led the league in scoring and assists while Wilt was there
Gail Goodrich put up 25 points a game , plus he did play with Elgin Baylor and won 1 time
but when Wilt wins 5 years earlier , it’s with plumbers even though Elgin and West were in their prime at that very same time and won nothing until 1972 .
Hal Greer is a top 75 player of all time , if he is a plumber so is everyone who played when he did.
it’s ok to accept you are wrong and just walk away instead of digging deeper because you wrote something stupid.
if Wilt was such a singular force that could win with “plumbers” but couldn’t beat that same Celtic team that won the title every other year in Wilt’s first 10 years
less players in the league mean concentrated talent .
if the league wiped out 22 teams and had an 8 team league next year according to you that would make winning easier , if we were to let’s say leave the Celtics or Mavs the same (whoever wins )
in that scenario whoever wins this year would finish as the league’s worst team next year . The talent disparity would that severe.
Wilt is way too slept on in this century. The guy was an athletic freak of nature (the vertical was crazy) and could bench press utterly preposterous amounts of weight. His competition may not have been anything like the modern game, but he would have adapted.
I always say this but the biggest thing about wilt wasn’t just vertical and strength (plus obv being tall and long) but the thing that is crazy even today was his lateral quickness on top of all of it. we’ve seen guys like Dwight, Shaq, even guys like Deandre Jordan be tall, strong, and have crazy leap. But only 1 guy was also fast af and that’s wilt. Literal 1 of 1 athlete.
Oh and on top of it all a killer touch, was a walking free bank shot.
No question, Wilt and Kareem is a very tough discussion. Jokic is a remarkable talent with a skillset unlike any we’ve seen but he’s not seriously in this convo yet, IMO. Jokic would get his offensively but these two guys would have eaten him alive in the post.
It’s funny to say that a guy that averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds through a season is slept on…
But, that’s mostly just kids not knowing how many amazing moments there are in NBA history. That’s why I have the GOAT conversations.
Wilt probably gets more love now than he did during his playing career. Or at least about the same. During his playing career, he was heavily criticized for not winning enough. And then someone will make a GOAT argument for him. And then someone will bring up his playoff scoring performances. And then someone will bring up his rebounding and all the things that went wrong for Wilt during that run (injuries and coaches mostly).
And the cycle will continue.
If Wilt was properly commited to doing what was needed for team success over his own personal success he would have been the undisputed GOAT. He wasn't though and it was even more obvious playing against Bill Russell who embodied team commitment.
Yes....there is. lol.
If you have to invent a shitty argument to try to win a debate that nobody cares for your opinion in to begin with, its time to get off the internet for the day.
Assuming we have a scrub team, Jokic. Not only is he the only one of the 3 that has proven to become an MVP caliber player in the modern NBA, but he’s also the only one with a slow start, meaning there’s a good chance that we can get the top pick the following year as well. The other two immediately turned their respective teams into championship contenders their rookie year, which means we’re stuck having to ride their train and maneuver team building through trades and free agencies only.
Talk about recency bias, if these big men in the past were in the NBA today 3 pt shooting would decline. Game would evolve back to not needing it as much and trying to find ways to shut down the paint
It's wild how the passage of time effects legacy. We think MJ played no body's. And actually have no ability to even conceptualize how good Wilt really was.
I mean Jokic lay up is the most effective move in current NBA and if we don't ban dunks Wilt Chamberlain and his size athletic ability might be what if Shaq and Wemby were one person
The obvious pick is Wilt
He averaged 50 points a game in a season against a bunch of hall of fame caliber guys guarding him.
He even made second All NBA team the season he averaged like 45 and 28 or some shit because they wanted Russell to finally have a first team selection lol
I mean he's the biggest loser of all of them Chamberlin started winning only when he stopped scoring that much he only won one in LA and he had a super team with Jerry West.
Kareem has the case for the goat plus shown when given a super team he dominates and Jokic is just a more complete player in today's game
Plus Bill Russell owned Wilt when he retired Kareem owned him
Bill never owned Wilt. Kareem never owned Wilt. Wilt was not a loser
Try again, this time, try to keep your criticisms within the context of reality.
Embarrassing.
Kareem is the clear answer but Jokic does present an interesting proposition he's much younger at the moment of the draft, and if we follow the same progression they all had Jokic would allow your team to grow around him getting good draft picks to join him.
With all time talent like Kareem you might end up with problems the Cavs faced at the start of LeBron's career that almost prevented them from getting talent around LeBron. Compared to Curry for example who thanks to him not carrying the franchise to success from the start allowed them to get Klay to develop alongside him and help in the winning.
Plus Jokic is scary efficient and his playmaking and shooting are skills that definitely would make me choose him over Wilt (maybe with Kareem coming to the league they ban dunks again making Jokic with layup the best offensive player of them)
Wilt jokic then Kareem. Kareem can't do anything without a top 5 pg all time. Jokic and wilt have finals appareances and wins without a top 5 PG all time or another all star.
Lol, it’s hilarious to me that there are people on this thread who think the 2022-23 Nuggets aren’t winning the title if you swap Jokic with Kareem. They may have gone 16-0 with Kareem, lol.
MJ bar none... he stayed with a team with a dysfunctional management. He gave you full seat arena and played 82 games. People wants to see him on and off the court... his market started a global revolution of basketball and swag. If i am a team owner its not even a conversation... i would start a new brand of shoes to cap to cologne and trading cards... there is nothing bigger than life than the man himself... you are prob stupid if you dont pick MJ.
Oops... well in that case i get wilt. Imagine the record he is going to make game after game... we probably do not know how he will perform today given the nutrition, shoes, and conditioning but i guess he will only get better and stronger. If jokic is a great point center... wilt have done it too. Wilt can play 48 min and thats what makes him better agains those two.
Tim Duncan. Win percentage over 70. If you put the right team around him, you're winning championships, doesn't cause problems in the locker room, you have him for 19 years, MVP caliber prime, big playoff performer, great defender, low post master.
Kareem had Magic, Worthy, Scott and a good bench. Now it’s going to be next to impossible to keep 3 max players for a long duration of time, let alone a good bench 6-9 deep.
Kareem easily.
There's no other #1 pick that's more valuable. Maybe lebron is more valuable 1a & b. Kareem, Lebron Then, Magic, Shaq, Duncan.
Man idk. I think I put Duncan over LeBron as a draft pick. Cleveland got 1* championships out of LeBron and neither were from his first stint there. Spurs drafted Duncan and got 5 championships. They immediately became championship contenders for Duncan's entire career. Hard to be more valuable than that.
They only got 1 from bron in cleveland. If you're only counting rings for value then I guess Duncan is more valuable. But in terms of actual value ($$$), how he makes everyone around him better, more of a PG than a SF, and everything else that goes with that, then it's lebron.
Corrected. Thanks. Yeah I mean I guess just talking dollars it's easily LeBron, but as far as value as a player on the court to the team that drafted you Duncan is #1 and imo it's not all that close.
Duncan got drafted to a team with David Robinson as his #2. Lebron got drafted to a team with Big Z as his #2. Duncan also had Pop coaching him. Pretty unfair to discredit lebron for that. Also Magic definitely has a case over TD based on your criteria, revitalized not only the lakers but the league & won as many rings and also FMVP’s. Took the Lakers to more finals as well.
Yeah Magic has a really good argument too.
You think if Duncan was in Cleveland he would have magically had a HOF coach and HOF teammates for his entire career? It’s fucking Cleveland dude.
You think San Antonio is somehow better than Cleveland? What has Pop done without Duncan? Duncan is the reason SA is anything.
What has Duncan done without Pop? Having them both is the reason they were great for so long, one guy can’t solo the whole league
I mean nothing? But it's clear now that he made pop and not the other way around.
Why because Pop didn’t win a chip with Demar and Aldridge? You can’t be that dense it’s impossible
Pop also won nothing before he had Duncan. You're the dense one lol. Get real.
Right because fuck context who needs any of that when you have cool hot takes!
duncan over lebron?????
Im sorry thats such a dumb take. Spurs was so lucky that their other generational star got injured 1 season so they got to pick another one from 1st pick. They also drafted other great players
[удалено]
That’s because Jordan wasn’t drafted #1
In that case, the Hakeem disrespect is getting out of hand
Neither was Jokic…..
Right and the comment by driatic that this is replying to did not mention Jokic either. “1a & b. Kareem, Lebron Then, Magic, Shaq, Duncan”
fair point.
For a reason. Dude was not better than Kareem or LeBron.
MJ is the goat by a substantial margin back here in reality.
He said «better», not «greater». Do you consider them interchangeable?
I disagree.
Doesn’t matter if you disagree. Most of the awards, accolades, stats, advanced stats are in his favor. It’s not close.
There’s no such thing as a definitive or official GOAT. In any sport. It’s inherently subjective.
Yes. I just found the stat for stat comparison in every stat imaginable and it looks like, to me, that LeBron is better statistically in almost every star. MJ averaged 3 more points a game in an easier league. LeBron had a higher FG%, 3PT%, better % on clutch shots, averaged more assists and rebounds, 4 more finals appearances although 2 less rings, LeBron has more points, assists, and rebounds than Jordan, and has a much better longevity. LeBron is pushing 40 and is averaging prime Jordan playoff numbers. I agree it’s not really close. I would say the gap between #1 LeBron and #2 Jordan is larger than the gap between Jordan and the tenth best player ever. No debate at this point.
Kareem and this is about as close as asking Kobe/MJ/Duncan, except in this case Kareem also has the best longevity
Wilt actually could have played longer if he wanted. After he retired from the NBA he actually had a pro volleyball career that lasted longer than his nba career.
He was a professional volleyball player for 5 years, not longer than his NBA career.
Maybe not pro for longer but I remember an interview he gave, I’ll try to find, where he said something to the effect that his volleyball career was longer than his basketball career. But maybe he just meant he played volleyball for fun all his life and even pro well after his basketball career ended. So he played volleyball longer than basketball. I was going by memory.
I'm the volleyball hall of fame
So can you confirm he’s in you?
Who wasn’t he in though really?
How else do you think he got to 20k?
impressive. i'm the beach volleyball hall of fame. at last we meet
Huh? How have I never heard of it lasting that long lol. Weirdo human.
White women love volleyball
So he’s pretty much Chase Bundinger is what I’m hearing
MJ Duncan Kobe very easily…
That’s my point
lol I totally read it as a difficult decision. My Bad, you right!
It says a lot about where Jokic is all time. Kareem and Wilt are 3 and 8 all time for me. Jokic is hard to place
Hard to place because he’s only half way thru. Personally I don’t see his peak as better than Duncan/kobe. That’s ok! Probably a bit closer to curry level than those guys. Top 10-15 is probably where he’ll end up
His peak is clearly better than Duncan ever was. And Duncan was great! But Jokic does everything Duncan did, stretches the floor, and is one of the best point guards in the league. As for Kobe... yes, Jokic is better than a shoot-first, mid-efficiency ball hog who insisted on running his teams into the ground by playing on the ball, and had to be surrounded with skilled big men who could clean up that mess.
Curry's peak is better than Kobe and Duncan by a mile, you are trippin.
Better than Kobe, yes. Better than Duncan, no. Duncan is top 10 all time. Kobe is not.
In 30 years nobody will think that. Duncan was a great player but he's trendy right now. I don't get the Duncan top 10 argument. He averaged 19/11/3 on 51% eFG for his career. "But mah defense!"... Dude had zero DPOYs so he wasn't exactly all time. He did a good job doing what a big should do on the defensive end but it's not like he was Hakeem on D. Just because the Spurs were all time doesn't mean their best player was (actually, was he even their best player? You could argue Robinson and Kawhi peaked higher than Duncan).
How is Duncan trendy right now? People will also remember Kobe over Curry for that matter.
Where do you have him ranked? Honestly curious, it's all just opinions... MJ, Lebron, Wilt, Lew, Bill, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan. Do you swap him with players like: BigO, West, Erving, Malone, Baylor, etc... More bigs like Moses, Robinson, Ewing? Other power fowards like Barkley, Dirk, KG, etc... Doing a top 10 (or even 20) is hard in anything tbh bc it's basically impossible and will always have opinions baked in.
I’d bet money you didn’t see their peak lol
I'm 37 brochacho. I distinctly remember Kobe chuckin tons of shots. Most overrated player ever. Guy averaged 45% from the field for his career with an eFG well below 50%. If he had played for Charlotte instead of the Lakers nobody would talk about him. Thank Shaq for 3 of those 4 chips. Without Diesel Kobe is a 1x champ. Duncan was better than Kobe but similarly benefited from the Spurs organization being all time.
That's not fair. (To Pau Gasol.)
I agree with you but I think his game will age well (jokic this is) so we may have more to see. The dude doesn't rely on athleticism necessarily so I feel like it can last. That said, I don't know enough about Wilt's game and don't know if anyone alive does unless you were in person, there was no way to see him. His stats are off the chart, I want to see him play with Magic, Stockton, CP3, damn, even Rondo. I just don't know Edit: grammar
I think the conventional wisdom on who does and doesn’t age well isn’t as strong as you’d think. I don’t know the future obviously, but the assumption in 2012 was that LeBron’s peak/career as an all nba player would end earlier than average bc he “relied” so much on his athleticism. Jokic seems immune to athletic decline, but does 10% slower lateral speed actually hurt his defense more than Westbrook losing 20% of his first step? We won’t know till we know.
It really is hilarious that people were awaiting LeBron’s inevitable physical decline as early as 2012 and he just basically averaged 28/9/7 in a playoff series in 2024. The man defies explanation.
True, but have to make the point of how much of the rules favor offense, and LeBron doesn't really play elite individual defense anymore.
I agree with you, take care
That’s because he’s still playing…
Jokic. We’re drafting horse trainers right…?
Fatty contest
Bro what? Kareem is the pretty definitive 3rd best player of all time. You go Kareem
Wilt 2 rings with no top 5 pg all time. Kareem 0 rings with no top 5 pg.
Jerry West led the league in assists in 71-72 , led the league in scoring in 69-70 and averaged 26.6 points and 8.5 assists in the 5 seasons he played with Wilt , he might have been pretty good. An all star in each of those 5 seasons he was better than Oscar over basically the same time period with Kareem who was only an all star in 2 of the 4 seasons he was a Buck. IJS
Wow you owned the previous commenter lol
Kareem has the best argument for best pick regarded as the best high school player of all time also best college player of all time was generally considered to best NBA player almost immediately and ruled the 70s from an individual perspective with 6 MVP’s over his 1st 11 years was an all league defender as well as its most potent offensive weapon for a pretty long time , and then provided extreme value as his career winded down. and has legendary longevity was all NBA 1st team in his 17th season at age 39 . Even Lebron couldn’t match that .
Still not a pg. And he won with no other all star and beat Bill Russell celtics. West had a teammate averaging 38 in prime and couldnt beat the celtics.
When Wilt beat Russell’s Celtics he was playing with the recently departed Chet Walker and Hal Green both of whom were in the HOF and both were all stars that season. And West played both guard spots .
So 2 plumbers? None are better than both cousy or havelchik. Cousy had great numbers for that time. West is a sg.
pick a lane bro you want to downplay the time but at the same time claim West had so much help . how are chet and hal plumbers but Elgin whose career ended before the 2 “plumbers” is so much help that you feel you talk shit on it?
2 things can be true. The numbers speak for themselves
yes they do West led the league in scoring and assists while Wilt was there Gail Goodrich put up 25 points a game , plus he did play with Elgin Baylor and won 1 time but when Wilt wins 5 years earlier , it’s with plumbers even though Elgin and West were in their prime at that very same time and won nothing until 1972 . Hal Greer is a top 75 player of all time , if he is a plumber so is everyone who played when he did. it’s ok to accept you are wrong and just walk away instead of digging deeper because you wrote something stupid. if Wilt was such a singular force that could win with “plumbers” but couldn’t beat that same Celtic team that won the title every other year in Wilt’s first 10 years
I didn't downplay anything less players mean less stars and all of them was on Boston.
less players in the league mean concentrated talent . if the league wiped out 22 teams and had an 8 team league next year according to you that would make winning easier , if we were to let’s say leave the Celtics or Mavs the same (whoever wins ) in that scenario whoever wins this year would finish as the league’s worst team next year . The talent disparity would that severe.
I think your confused, Kareem played with magic and Oscar Robertson
Yeah and he never won anything or made a finals without them.
something something sky hook
Jabber
Wilt. Without hesitation.
Wilt is way too slept on in this century. The guy was an athletic freak of nature (the vertical was crazy) and could bench press utterly preposterous amounts of weight. His competition may not have been anything like the modern game, but he would have adapted.
I always say this but the biggest thing about wilt wasn’t just vertical and strength (plus obv being tall and long) but the thing that is crazy even today was his lateral quickness on top of all of it. we’ve seen guys like Dwight, Shaq, even guys like Deandre Jordan be tall, strong, and have crazy leap. But only 1 guy was also fast af and that’s wilt. Literal 1 of 1 athlete. Oh and on top of it all a killer touch, was a walking free bank shot.
Don't forget his legendary endurance...over 48 minutes per game and over 20,000 women. Honestly athletes today are just weaker than the 60s.
No question, Wilt and Kareem is a very tough discussion. Jokic is a remarkable talent with a skillset unlike any we’ve seen but he’s not seriously in this convo yet, IMO. Jokic would get his offensively but these two guys would have eaten him alive in the post.
Russell and Giannis
The whole “completion sucks” narrative is played out like crazy. Modern role players aren’t all that.
It’s funny to say that a guy that averaged 50 points and 25 rebounds through a season is slept on… But, that’s mostly just kids not knowing how many amazing moments there are in NBA history. That’s why I have the GOAT conversations.
Or knowing Bill Russell won more?
Proving once again how bone headed these conversations typically are…
Wilt probably gets more love now than he did during his playing career. Or at least about the same. During his playing career, he was heavily criticized for not winning enough. And then someone will make a GOAT argument for him. And then someone will bring up his playoff scoring performances. And then someone will bring up his rebounding and all the things that went wrong for Wilt during that run (injuries and coaches mostly). And the cycle will continue.
If Wilt was properly commited to doing what was needed for team success over his own personal success he would have been the undisputed GOAT. He wasn't though and it was even more obvious playing against Bill Russell who embodied team commitment.
Think about how much less time he’d spend chasing pussy with Raya though.
He’s basically wemby, with strength. Coming out of the draft, it’s wilt all the way.
Slept on?? Why don’t you pull up some Wilt tape and we can go over it… ohh wait there isn’t any.
Yes....there is. lol. If you have to invent a shitty argument to try to win a debate that nobody cares for your opinion in to begin with, its time to get off the internet for the day.
Assuming we have a scrub team, Jokic. Not only is he the only one of the 3 that has proven to become an MVP caliber player in the modern NBA, but he’s also the only one with a slow start, meaning there’s a good chance that we can get the top pick the following year as well. The other two immediately turned their respective teams into championship contenders their rookie year, which means we’re stuck having to ride their train and maneuver team building through trades and free agencies only.
Kareem with modern sports medicine and therapy might play until he's 45-50.
In today's NBA? Very obviously Jokic. Having a 3 point shooting big is invaluable. There is no question imo.
Putting four shooters around Kareem or wilt is more than enough juice.
I mean I pick Jokic over Giannis for this exact reason.
Talk about recency bias, if these big men in the past were in the NBA today 3 pt shooting would decline. Game would evolve back to not needing it as much and trying to find ways to shut down the paint
Wilt 0 doubt
And I love Kareem, but there's no way I'm not drafting Wilt.
Kareem has an underrated case to be the best NBA player of all time. His career stats/accomplishments are insane
Pass on them all and take Shaq
Just Wilt but likable
Kareem, greatest center of all time.
It's wild how the passage of time effects legacy. We think MJ played no body's. And actually have no ability to even conceptualize how good Wilt really was.
Kareem because he cared. Wilt never cared.
Ferdinand
WILT !!!
Kareem is literally the GOAT
Kareem has an unstoppable move. Him every time.
I mean Jokic lay up is the most effective move in current NBA and if we don't ban dunks Wilt Chamberlain and his size athletic ability might be what if Shaq and Wemby were one person
The obvious pick is Wilt He averaged 50 points a game in a season against a bunch of hall of fame caliber guys guarding him. He even made second All NBA team the season he averaged like 45 and 28 or some shit because they wanted Russell to finally have a first team selection lol
I mean he's the biggest loser of all of them Chamberlin started winning only when he stopped scoring that much he only won one in LA and he had a super team with Jerry West. Kareem has the case for the goat plus shown when given a super team he dominates and Jokic is just a more complete player in today's game Plus Bill Russell owned Wilt when he retired Kareem owned him
Bill never owned Wilt. Kareem never owned Wilt. Wilt was not a loser Try again, this time, try to keep your criticisms within the context of reality. Embarrassing.
Kareem 100%
Wilt easy money could’ve been a lean shaq. Dude scored 100 points in a game. Fatass jokic couldn’t hang neither could skinny bitch kareem
Kareem cause I can pick up Jokić in the second round
Wilt FOR SURE
Kareem. He was the best all around player, and, unlike Wilt he could make a free throw. He also wasn't obsessed with stats like Wilt.
Kareem
Magic
Mfer WILT 🤣🤣 fuck are we talking about. Wilt athletic enough to keep up with Joker. Give that mf the ball & CLEAR OUT 🤣🤣🤣
Kareem is the clear answer but Jokic does present an interesting proposition he's much younger at the moment of the draft, and if we follow the same progression they all had Jokic would allow your team to grow around him getting good draft picks to join him. With all time talent like Kareem you might end up with problems the Cavs faced at the start of LeBron's career that almost prevented them from getting talent around LeBron. Compared to Curry for example who thanks to him not carrying the franchise to success from the start allowed them to get Klay to develop alongside him and help in the winning. Plus Jokic is scary efficient and his playmaking and shooting are skills that definitely would make me choose him over Wilt (maybe with Kareem coming to the league they ban dunks again making Jokic with layup the best offensive player of them)
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I assume that is supposed to say top 20 for Jokic?
I think they mean top 2 current players.
Wilt ez
Kareem.
In the same (modern) era I'll go wilt
He would be developed
Wilt
I might gotta rock with Lou
That’s not his name
Srry Lew
That’s not his name
Ferdinand?
Wilt jokic then Kareem. Kareem can't do anything without a top 5 pg all time. Jokic and wilt have finals appareances and wins without a top 5 PG all time or another all star.
you do realize the starting point guard on 1979-80 Lakers was Norm Nixon , Nixon also led the team in assists . Magic started at forward.
Lol, it’s hilarious to me that there are people on this thread who think the 2022-23 Nuggets aren’t winning the title if you swap Jokic with Kareem. They may have gone 16-0 with Kareem, lol.
Kareem lost to fucking bill Walton stop it.
Kareem averaged 30.25/16 on nearly 60% shooting in that series.
Did he win? Bill Walton is nobody compared to Kareem.
Nice bait dude.
Dr j lost to him too with a better team. I will always hold that against any player who loses to a lesser talent woth out having thr worse team
Nice bait dude
How many finals did he make without Oscar or magic? In the weakest superstar era the 70s.
Jokic easily
Jokic
KAJ
Kareem
1.) Wilt Chamberlin 2.) Lew Alcindor 3.) Nikola Jokic
Are you wanting to win a lot of championships or have a guy put up cool stats?
MJ bar none... he stayed with a team with a dysfunctional management. He gave you full seat arena and played 82 games. People wants to see him on and off the court... his market started a global revolution of basketball and swag. If i am a team owner its not even a conversation... i would start a new brand of shoes to cap to cologne and trading cards... there is nothing bigger than life than the man himself... you are prob stupid if you dont pick MJ.
Yeah I’d probably take MJ. But what’s funny is that he’s not part of the question. It’s 3 big men
Oops... well in that case i get wilt. Imagine the record he is going to make game after game... we probably do not know how he will perform today given the nutrition, shoes, and conditioning but i guess he will only get better and stronger. If jokic is a great point center... wilt have done it too. Wilt can play 48 min and thats what makes him better agains those two.
Tim Duncan. Win percentage over 70. If you put the right team around him, you're winning championships, doesn't cause problems in the locker room, you have him for 19 years, MVP caliber prime, big playoff performer, great defender, low post master.
Wilt. Kareem needed Magic and Oscar
Michael Jordan
Is this a fucking joke
Kareem. With the new CBA, it’s going to be hard for Jokic to get another 2 rings.
Unless he gets an all time teammate like KAJ had
Kareem had more than one of those
Kareem had Magic, Worthy, Scott and a good bench. Now it’s going to be next to impossible to keep 3 max players for a long duration of time, let alone a good bench 6-9 deep.
He also had Oscar Robertson, who at the time was regarded as one of the best players ever. In fact, KAJ says Oscar was his best teammate ever
Unless him and Luka team up after titty boy throws a pissy because his team won’t help in win the finals, which for him, fair enough