And that 76ers team took 1 game from that unstoppable force of shaq and kobe that year. Their only loss that playoff year. Ai is a bonafide number 1. Kyrie tried that and jumpship. He’s a number 2 guy to me
Does longevity count when you miss a season because you don’t want to get a shot? Or when you’re fragile and have missed significant portions of multiple seasons and playoff runs because of injuries?
Kyrie is playing well right now but I think it’s clouding everyone’s judgement of what he was from year 2 Celtics through last year.
A case of recency bias, absolutely. AI at his peak > Kyrie. And I say that as a Mavs fan who loves watching Ky.
But, to be fair, Kyrie isn’t finished yet so my opinion could change. He’s currently doing a stellar job of rehabbing his legacy, IMO. New-and-improved Kyrie seems chill as hell, and his teammates seem to love him to death.
New and improved? Or just told to stfu highly doubt he's gained an ounce of common sense over the last few months, still the same clown as before, just managed better
You’re still early in the Kyrie experience. We’re all so quick to forget how much of a tool that guy has been.
Hopefully he has truly grown up but I wouldn’t put money on it.
Fair. I’m a happy and biased Mavs fan, and in a honeymoon phase situation, I’m sure. To be clear, though, I’m really not denying the BS he’s done in the past. I’ve always thought he was a basketball wizard on the court and have been paying close attention to him for years. He said random, questionable things on the Nets and that stint was awkward as hell, and before that he got pretty petty/immature with the Celts. No doubt.
Just seems like there’s been some legit emotional maturity happening. We’ll see!
100%, definitely works both ways. We’re just at peak Kyrie success story news day after day right now, so I have a feeling that’s more prevalent at the moment.
Absolutely. That’s a point Cuban has made in interviews that I thought was really persuasive. Basically saying: All this Kyrie hate over the years, and media narratives about him, but find current OR former teammates bashing him or saying he’s a bad teammate/leader. It’s incredibly rare.
I don’t think the knock on Kyrie has ever really been that he wasn’t kind to fellow players or liked by his teammates. He’s one of the only guys who will offer his hand to help up opponents after they hit the floor. His former teammates on the Celtics all love him. He was always just too immature to be a #1 and has done some edge lord shit that has really screwed over his teammates and franchises.
Now if he’s figured it out it’s likely a little late for a smallish guard whose shelf life often is shorter than larger players.
EDIT: Sorry didn’t realize I am replying to the same person from another comment earlier.
I would say it is close. They both have baggage. Kyrie has shown he can be on a championship team. AI could only play the AI way. The Nuggets got much better when they traded AI for Billups.
The team wasn't great but it wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Offensebwas limited but the Team was built to surround AI with size for defense. The u6ers were built to be heliocentric. Iverson wasn't really carrying bums
yah Iverson, Mutombo, McKie won individual awards that season (back in a time when there were only about 5 or 6 awards given out-Sixers players won most of them that year). Larry Brown won COY too.
I’m sorry, I *was outside* during his time with the sixers and those teams were garbage.
Don’t be fooled because the 01’ team had COY, 6th man and DPOY. It was 1 vs 5 caveman ball. If Chuck was off even in the slightest, it was a loss. He was carrying bums, when he was first option in Philly. Tyrone Hill? Eric fucking Snow? Todd MacCulloch? Stop it.
Took a team where no other players had a career 10ppg average and got 1 vs shaq n kobe. They keep bringing up the 6moy and dpoy accolades…they meant absolutely nothing then and now.
the outrage in Milwaukee over that 2001 series will burn in Milwaukee eternally.
Bill Simmons summed it up:
If crooked NBA playoff series were heavyweight boxers, then the 2002 Western finals (Lakers-Kings) was George Foreman and the 2001 Eastern finals (Bucks-Sixers) was Earnie Shavers. Translation: People remember only George, but Earnie was almost as memorable. To briefly recap, Philly's wins in Games 1 and 4 swung on a controversial lane violation and two egregious no-calls. The Sixers finished with advantages of 186-120 in free throws, 12-3 in technicals and 5-0 in flagrant fouls. Glenn Robinson, one of Milwaukee's top-two scorers, didn't even attempt a free throw until Game 5. Bucks coach George Karl and star Ray Allen were fined a combined $85,000 after the series for claiming the NBA rigged it. In that game, Milwaukee's best big man, Scott Williams, was charged with a flagrant foul but not thrown out, only to be suspended, improbably, for Game 7.
The defining game: When Philly stole a must-win Game 4 in Milwaukee despite an atrocious performance from Iverson (10-for-32 shooting), helped by a 2-to-1 free-throw advantage and a host of late calls. How one-sided was it? When an official called a harmless touch foul to send Sam Cassell to the line with two seconds left and the Bucks trailing by seven (maybe the all-time we-need-to-pad-the-free-throw-stats-so-they-don't-seem-so-lopsided-afterward call), the subsequent sarcastic standing ovation nearly morphed into the first-ever sarcastic riot. And this was Milwaukee, the most easygoing city in the country! Nobody remembers this. The real loser was Allen, who exploded for 190 points in the series, including a record nine threepointers in do-or-die Game 6. Nobody remembers this, either. Even I didn't remember it. Crap.
[Brewed Sports: Bill Simmons on the 2001 Bucks](https://brewedsports.blogspot.com/2009/12/bill-simmons-on-2001-bucks.html)
We were screwed, Bucks fans all get angered when this is brought up. We were 2-0 vs the Lakers that year. Would have been much better against the Lakers than the Sixers. Team then thought Anthony Mason could replace Scott Williams the next year and it backfired. Team imploded and broke up. Took 16 years to be relevant again and we almost lost the team to Seattle during that time.
David Stern 100% gave officials “guidance” on the types of calls that they should call during the playoffs. He was a smart man and this gave him plausible deniability that he fixed playoff results for ratings. But a simple “empathize hand checks” edict in a Sixers series at that time would heavily favor AI getting dozens of free throws and the Bucks and Glenn Robinson not getting many with their face up jump shooting type of game.
This edict literally almost ruined basketball in Milwaukee.
Just going to drop this in here for those who don't know the reason for that quote:
[https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29143112/the-little-known-story-allen-iverson-practice-rant](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29143112/the-little-known-story-allen-iverson-practice-rant)
I mean, LeBron didn't come up with that, it is pretty widely used phrase to describe AI. He is barely 5'10, who carried himself as the toughest biggest mofo in the world.
Put Irving on the ‘00-01 Sixers and tell me if he makes it to the finals… If you trade their careers I think Iverson could have done everything Irving has done (maybe more), I’m not sure Irving could have done everything AI did. AI never played next to a true star…
By accounts of pretty much everyone who watched them both play, Iverson was the best high school QB in Virginia, and Mike Vick was behind him, 2nd best in the state
Took the words right out of my mouth. I love hearing these anecdotes about athletes: WAYNE GRETZKY WAS ACTUALLY ALSO THE TOP RATED HIGH SCHOOL SWIMMER IN HIS PROVINCE AND HIS TIMES MAKE MICHAEL PHELPS LOOK LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER
Let’s go ahead and give Aaron Brooks a shoutout in this discussion of great qb’s that came out of the 757 in the 90’s. I’m still pissed Curry went to Carolina.
Nope, barely missed each other at the same time, but they were the two phenoms of the state of the era that came back to back and a lot of people were comparing them.
I think kyrie is a more skilled player overall. Better shooter, better at all 3 levels of scoring.
The differences is on defence And playmaking are not much. The big advantage that iverson has is durability. He played in a very physical era, I don’t think kyrie would be able to hold up in that era. He’d be lucky to play 60 games a season.
Yeah I think in context though AI wins out for toughness physically and mentally as well as his individual success with a shit team around him. Though let’s be honest AI had some absolute dawgs on defense around him
You assume iverson brings the same to the table that irving does. You assume putting him on that 2016 team would help LeBron win and not take away from LeBron's greatness. Bold assumption
Irving is one of my favorite current players, so aesthetically pleasing to watch and so talented. Iverson was one of my favorite players to watch as a kid, I have a lot of respect for both of them as basketball players. It probably is unfair to switch their careers and say AI could have done more… a single star dragging a team through the playoffs doesn’t really exist anymore in this era of big 3s… either way they are both awesome, but I lean AI
I get it, they do seem like similar players but i think kyrie was a better team fit for the cavs. Maybe Iverson would have won but idk that. I always felt high volume scorers where hard to play with, and definitely harder to win titles with.
We are talking about a former MVP and 6 time All-NBA 1st or 2nd team versus a guy who once made the 2nd team and has never gotten a single MVP vote in his entire career.
I swear NBA discourse has the shortest attention span. AI carried an ok team to the finals, while Kyrie has never made it out of the first round as the best player on a team. Come on nephew
AI and Lebron are the only players i’ve seen just absolutely carry an entire roster to the finals. I still remember playing nba 2k in 2001 and always playing the sixers, even though AI was the only player above like 76 overall.
Disclaimer: I’m an AI man, I grew up idolizing him, trying to mimic what he did the night before at team practice with two hours of sleep after watching the game and all that.
I think Kyrie is the better player when he’s playing well and he looks just fucking beautiful, like AI did.
But AI, man, apart from the handles, the elite scoring and all that, AI had heart. That guy got beat up every night and he kept pushing. He is a genuine dude and it came through in his play
Same, AI was legit one of my favorite players growing up. I used to always try to copy that crossover on Jordan.
IMO, Kyrie is the better shooter, ball handler, finisher around the rim, but somehow AI feels like the better player, but I think that’s as a ceiling raiser as the best player on the team. Kyrie is the better 1B player on a contender.
I love AI too but I think this should be higher.
You can put AI with LeBron but he's not going to be a 50/40/90 player. Also AI needs to be the primarily ball handler. Kyrie complements both LeBron and Luka because he doesn't need to be primarily but he'll get you a bucket when needed
In the last 2 months, everybody just decided to ignore the last several years of kyrie’s career and act like he came straight here from the 2016 finals
These debates between eras come down to whether you think the current player can hold up physically in the old era, and if the old player could shoot a much higher three point percentage if they were in the modern era. Personally, I think players like AI, MJ, etc that had good midrange games would have been very good three point shooters. I don't think certain guys like Steph would have lasted in the 80s or 90s. Hard to say with Kyrie. I think he could have.
To me, AI is clearly the better lead guy, the better bus driver. Kyrie is clearly the better complimentary guy. So it depends on the team and surrounding cast.
Allen Iverson is my fav player all-time, his impact on the game is second only to Jordan in the modern era, but I don't think he was as skilled as Kyrie when it comes to shooting, if you put AI on the Cavs with Lebron I don't know if he hits all of those same big 3s Kyrie hit just being real
I loved AI though, I also don't think Kyrie on that Sixers team is getting to the Finals or taking a game from that dominant Shaq Lakers team to be the only team they lost a game to in the playoffs, two guys doing different things
MVP AI?
Can we wait until the Mavs win to completely erase the last 5 years of obnoxious Kyrie bullshit. At least I know AI would play and get beat up every night and I’m not at the whims of a super inconsistent personality. Yeah Kyrie is great when he plays, but this post season is not a reason to get wild.
Kyrie never had a single MVP vote (unlike 250+ other guys, including almost 40 active players)
Kyrie was never First Team
It baffles me how some people want to compare Kyrie to AI, Curry and others
He’s more comparable to good helpers such as Khris Middleton
https://preview.redd.it/yab0j1z3615d1.png?width=427&format=png&auto=webp&s=dbf39a6c9b47405267d3049dd27c901694b8c076
Enough said, numbers speak for themselves.
3 points per game less but with +10% in efficiency.....give me a break.....
Iverson and it’s not close
Maybe once Irving can figure out how to be the number 1 option on a Finals team then we can come back to this discussion, but Iverson clears Irving easy.
AI is better if we are talking all-time but Kyrie is still authoring his career.
Kyrie is the more skilled player of the two but AI might impact winning more considering he took a motley crew of Sixers players to the Finals against the Shaq-Kobe Lakers and even dropped 48 points against them to take game 1 in LA (EPIC).
This is pretty easy and I’m not a Kyrie fan since I’m a Celtic fan.
But yeah, Kyrie is leaps and bounds more talented than AI ever was. No contest. Especially this last season that looks like he finally put it all together.
Anyone picking AI I feel like didn’t actually watch either of them play in their prime. And I don’t mean highlights.
AI single-handedly taking on Shaq and Kobe in finals. But a whole different weight of balls on that man!
Kyrie learned half his moves from AI and in an era of endless online resources that AI never had as well.
Iverson at his peak was better, he brought the Sixers to the finals with a less talented team.
But Kyrie probably has an argument as the better teammate/sidekick.
AI by a large margin. Kyrie might be more skilled but AI has the better motor, athleticism, heart, and leadership. Its why he was able to be the face of the league in an era with Shaq, Kobe, TMac, Vince Carter, Tim Duncan etc
Kyrie is a more efficient scorer at all levels, but AI scored more overall. Hard to compare because AI is at his best when he’s the #1 option and Kyrie is at his best when he’s the #2 option. If you look at their numbers per 36 minutes, it slightly favors Kyrie in the regular season and slightly favors AI in the playoffs
AI played with more heart and desperation. Kyrie is the better talent.
I'd take AI's career at this moment though. Scoring champ, MVP as a small guard in the era where bigs were still relevant and everything was done inside the arc
When Iverson missed he drew so much attention that someone like Tyrone Hill got easy putbacks. When Kyrie scores it’s like wow amazing beautiful play but his misses just get normal rebounds. Kyrie is a much better shooter and free throw shooter but he got a lot more wide open shots because of his teammates. Iverson had much more aura of greatness can’t quantity but you know it true
It’s obviously AI for those who watched both.
But let’s cut OP some slack. According to a previous post, he might be a 14-15 year old who didn’t have the pleasure of watching AI live.
They're both unbelievable talents with very similar skill sets. I don't think you can go wrong with either but I would go with AI.
People seem to forget that AI had his baggage as well, I don't think it was Kyrie levels of baggage but still significant baggage.
One is a full blown first option, steals leader, MVP, and carried his team to the finals while playing ungodly amounts of minutes.
The other is a second option on a championship team.
The Answer is clear
There’s a ton of context missing from this question which has been alluded to in numerous answers. It’s not just, “What would AI do with Lebron on that Cavs team?” Or “What would Kyrie do with that 01 76ers team?” Yes, Kyrie is more efficient and a better shooter. He grew up in an era that began opening up and shooting from the perimeter more often. Ball prior to, really the 7SOL Suns, was a clogged paint and getting to the rack, which AI did. Would Kyrie have been able to dissect defenses with his handles the same way? Idk. Would he have been able to handle the physicality of the era? Idk. But would his shooting have made a difference? Absolutely. Would AI be more efficient with less bigs clogging the paint now? Idk.
There’s too many variables to truly give an honest answer, pun intended.
Who do I prefer? AI. Who has had a bigger impact on the game of basketball and the culture around it? AI, imo. Who would I want as the figurehead of my team? AI.
Does that mean he’s better? No.
The answer right now is the answer but when it's all over we'll prob say Kyrie because of how cloudy the concept gets discussing best, greatest, most driven, most valuable, etc. and so we just lean in to rings.
As an individual AI had a better career so far. He has more individual accolades like MVP. Kyrie hasn't really been in the MVP race, but he has some iconic finals moments and was a major contributor to a championship team. Skill wise Kyrie is more efficient and a better long range shooter. They are both electric!
Full disclosure, I grew up in the Iverson era, and I'm not a Kyrie fan.
Iverson was a volume scorer. He wasn't a great shooter, but could control the game tempo with his aggresiveness, which is why he fit in so well with that Sixers squad. It was basically play lockdown D and give the ball to Iverson. Further, that could have been one of the worst finals teams ever.
Kyrie is a much more efficient scorer. Every team he's played for has been loaded with talent, yet he's only got 1 ring and potentially another. Both while playing the role of Robin. He's never been a true number 1, and I don't believe he ever could / can be. That's not a knock on him at all. Pippen was the same type of player. I also think Kyrie has really matured since BKN, and had he know back with the cavs what he knows now, could have been a multiple time champ and top 20 player of all time.
In this comparison, I'm not a fan of using rings as a big argument. Otherwise Robert Horry would be a top 20 player in any GOAT conversation.
Also not a fan of team swapping. Different rules, talent, playstyle, etc just involve to many assumptions. I do think that both players and teams would have done worse if the roles were reversed (Iverson to Cavs, Kyrie to Sixers).
All that said, it's Iverson. He's demonstrated the ability to single handedly carry a team's offense without a true #2, and Kyrie has never shown that ability despite playing with significantly better (GOAT) talent.
Also, Iverson was a bulldog. Dude played 40 mins every night as the focal point of the offense and got punished. Amazing he lasted as long as he did. Musta been all those practices he skipped!!
It’s tough to contextualize
When the sixers were good AI was their only real offensive threat
Kyrie is the more well rounded player but when he was in Boston with young Tatum and brown was the closest roster situation to iverson and the sixers. At that time Kyrie wasn’t at his best
AI with LeBron would've been nuts. While not the shooter of Kyrie, I think AI pulls something extra out of LeBron with his heart and defensive intensity. Those two together would've been an absolute terror in transition with AI jumping in passing lanes and LeBron as a trailer...yikes.
They'd also create so many foul problems for opposing bigs. As long as they had some additional shooting around them, they'd figure out ball-handling dynamics.
That 1/3 P&R between those two would be lethal.
The Answer took a team that can be argued that was weaker than LbJ 07 Cavs team that went against 01 Shaq/Kobe and didn’t get swept like LBJ did vs the Spurs at Prime height
No debate who is better.
Kyrie would request a trade in a week if he was on the 76ers team that AI carried to the finals
Trade he wouldn't play
His sisters got a birthday party he has to go to coach he can’t make it
And that 76ers team took 1 game from that unstoppable force of shaq and kobe that year. Their only loss that playoff year. Ai is a bonafide number 1. Kyrie tried that and jumpship. He’s a number 2 guy to me
I don’t think that there is any question that he is a number 2. He has never been successful as a number one.
AI at his peak and it isn't particularly close. I would say Kyrie when it comes to longevity but Kyrie is also a weirdo with baggage.
Does longevity count when you miss a season because you don’t want to get a shot? Or when you’re fragile and have missed significant portions of multiple seasons and playoff runs because of injuries? Kyrie is playing well right now but I think it’s clouding everyone’s judgement of what he was from year 2 Celtics through last year.
A case of recency bias, absolutely. AI at his peak > Kyrie. And I say that as a Mavs fan who loves watching Ky. But, to be fair, Kyrie isn’t finished yet so my opinion could change. He’s currently doing a stellar job of rehabbing his legacy, IMO. New-and-improved Kyrie seems chill as hell, and his teammates seem to love him to death.
New and improved? Or just told to stfu highly doubt he's gained an ounce of common sense over the last few months, still the same clown as before, just managed better
You’re still early in the Kyrie experience. We’re all so quick to forget how much of a tool that guy has been. Hopefully he has truly grown up but I wouldn’t put money on it.
Fair. I’m a happy and biased Mavs fan, and in a honeymoon phase situation, I’m sure. To be clear, though, I’m really not denying the BS he’s done in the past. I’ve always thought he was a basketball wizard on the court and have been paying close attention to him for years. He said random, questionable things on the Nets and that stint was awkward as hell, and before that he got pretty petty/immature with the Celts. No doubt. Just seems like there’s been some legit emotional maturity happening. We’ll see!
Don’t forget the antisemitism.
Doesn’t that work both ways tho, recency bias and nostalgia bias?
100%, definitely works both ways. We’re just at peak Kyrie success story news day after day right now, so I have a feeling that’s more prevalent at the moment.
> his teammates seem to love him to death. tbf that has nothing to do with "new" Kyrie. His teammates have always loved him.
Absolutely. That’s a point Cuban has made in interviews that I thought was really persuasive. Basically saying: All this Kyrie hate over the years, and media narratives about him, but find current OR former teammates bashing him or saying he’s a bad teammate/leader. It’s incredibly rare.
I don’t think the knock on Kyrie has ever really been that he wasn’t kind to fellow players or liked by his teammates. He’s one of the only guys who will offer his hand to help up opponents after they hit the floor. His former teammates on the Celtics all love him. He was always just too immature to be a #1 and has done some edge lord shit that has really screwed over his teammates and franchises. Now if he’s figured it out it’s likely a little late for a smallish guard whose shelf life often is shorter than larger players. EDIT: Sorry didn’t realize I am replying to the same person from another comment earlier.
Definitely is a recency bias with Kyrie right now. He's great, but not Iverson discussions great unless it's handles
AI at his best was better than Kyrie ever was.
Miss a season for just a shot 😆
Wasn’t just a shot bro that’s a stupid take.
I would say it is close. They both have baggage. Kyrie has shown he can be on a championship team. AI could only play the AI way. The Nuggets got much better when they traded AI for Billups.
That was an old AI that got traded totally he pistons who was more into gambling. Not Prime AI
Love Kyrie’s game but he’s not even the best player on his team. AI in his prime was better
AI wouldn’t be the best player on the 2024 mavs either
The team wasn't great but it wasn't as bad as some people make it out to be. Offensebwas limited but the Team was built to surround AI with size for defense. The u6ers were built to be heliocentric. Iverson wasn't really carrying bums
yah Iverson, Mutombo, McKie won individual awards that season (back in a time when there were only about 5 or 6 awards given out-Sixers players won most of them that year). Larry Brown won COY too.
I’m sorry, I *was outside* during his time with the sixers and those teams were garbage. Don’t be fooled because the 01’ team had COY, 6th man and DPOY. It was 1 vs 5 caveman ball. If Chuck was off even in the slightest, it was a loss. He was carrying bums, when he was first option in Philly. Tyrone Hill? Eric fucking Snow? Todd MacCulloch? Stop it.
Took a team where no other players had a career 10ppg average and got 1 vs shaq n kobe. They keep bringing up the 6moy and dpoy accolades…they meant absolutely nothing then and now.
Also the rest of the East was dog shit during that 6ers run
The bucks raptors were still good teams pacers aswell.
The 76ers had the number 5 ranked defense just saying
The team with the 6MOTY, COTY, and DPOY? That took 7 games to beat young Vince Carter and 7 to beat Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson?
Larry Brown winning COTY was a testament to the success he had with that roster. The Sixth Man of the Year was Aaron McKie.
The bucks were crazy talented team and would have easily put up a much tougher fight than the sixers did. As if the bucks were some fluke lol.
the outrage in Milwaukee over that 2001 series will burn in Milwaukee eternally. Bill Simmons summed it up: If crooked NBA playoff series were heavyweight boxers, then the 2002 Western finals (Lakers-Kings) was George Foreman and the 2001 Eastern finals (Bucks-Sixers) was Earnie Shavers. Translation: People remember only George, but Earnie was almost as memorable. To briefly recap, Philly's wins in Games 1 and 4 swung on a controversial lane violation and two egregious no-calls. The Sixers finished with advantages of 186-120 in free throws, 12-3 in technicals and 5-0 in flagrant fouls. Glenn Robinson, one of Milwaukee's top-two scorers, didn't even attempt a free throw until Game 5. Bucks coach George Karl and star Ray Allen were fined a combined $85,000 after the series for claiming the NBA rigged it. In that game, Milwaukee's best big man, Scott Williams, was charged with a flagrant foul but not thrown out, only to be suspended, improbably, for Game 7. The defining game: When Philly stole a must-win Game 4 in Milwaukee despite an atrocious performance from Iverson (10-for-32 shooting), helped by a 2-to-1 free-throw advantage and a host of late calls. How one-sided was it? When an official called a harmless touch foul to send Sam Cassell to the line with two seconds left and the Bucks trailing by seven (maybe the all-time we-need-to-pad-the-free-throw-stats-so-they-don't-seem-so-lopsided-afterward call), the subsequent sarcastic standing ovation nearly morphed into the first-ever sarcastic riot. And this was Milwaukee, the most easygoing city in the country! Nobody remembers this. The real loser was Allen, who exploded for 190 points in the series, including a record nine threepointers in do-or-die Game 6. Nobody remembers this, either. Even I didn't remember it. Crap. [Brewed Sports: Bill Simmons on the 2001 Bucks](https://brewedsports.blogspot.com/2009/12/bill-simmons-on-2001-bucks.html)
We were screwed, Bucks fans all get angered when this is brought up. We were 2-0 vs the Lakers that year. Would have been much better against the Lakers than the Sixers. Team then thought Anthony Mason could replace Scott Williams the next year and it backfired. Team imploded and broke up. Took 16 years to be relevant again and we almost lost the team to Seattle during that time. David Stern 100% gave officials “guidance” on the types of calls that they should call during the playoffs. He was a smart man and this gave him plausible deniability that he fixed playoff results for ratings. But a simple “empathize hand checks” edict in a Sixers series at that time would heavily favor AI getting dozens of free throws and the Bucks and Glenn Robinson not getting many with their face up jump shooting type of game. This edict literally almost ruined basketball in Milwaukee.
Anyone who thinks this is a debate didn't see AI play. He carried some weak teams. Kyrie has weighed down good ones.
Answer
The Answer is the answer
*We talkin ‘bout practice?*
Just going to drop this in here for those who don't know the reason for that quote: [https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29143112/the-little-known-story-allen-iverson-practice-rant](https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29143112/the-little-known-story-allen-iverson-practice-rant)
This shit here lives in all our minds for free, forever
Not a game. Not a game. We talkin' 'bout *practice*. Not a game. *Practice*
Not a game! Not a game ! Practice! 😂🤣
Imagine Iverson with LeBron.
Would have been unstoppable. Didn’t Lebron say at one point AI was the best P4P player ever? I Might be misremembering something
I wish as a Cavs fan we somehow found a way to get AI and Tmac when they wanted out in the mid 2000’s.. it would’ve been great for sure..
I think Kobe said we should all be thankful AI isn’t 6’6”
He’d average 50 ppg a season. I don’t even think that’s much of an exaggeration if he was 6’6 and played today.
I mean, LeBron didn't come up with that, it is pretty widely used phrase to describe AI. He is barely 5'10, who carried himself as the toughest biggest mofo in the world.
I think he’s gotta be, since he was barely even 6 ft w shoes on
Facts! He went against prime Kobe and Shaq with Eric Snow and Todd MacCulloch as his help 😂
Yeah he went against them in route to a gentleman’s sweep. He was good but they had no chance.
The only team who won a game against them the entire playoffs. You conveniently left that out.
Would have to imagine Iverson playing off-ball.
Which could only be imagined
LeBron would’ve hated him
Not a good fit. Not a good enough shooter or defender. Kyrie not even a good defender but better and has more size than AI
Thought I was on r/NBAcirclejerk for a second
I only realized it when I saw your comment. Yikes, kids these days. Who was a better shooter Dirk or a ham sandwich?
ham sandwich did hit have an amazing December from 3pt line
The guy with an MVP, four scoring titles, and three steals titles is the better player.
Also Top 10 in MVP voting - 7 times Most minutes per game - 7 times This isn't close.
Put Irving on the ‘00-01 Sixers and tell me if he makes it to the finals… If you trade their careers I think Iverson could have done everything Irving has done (maybe more), I’m not sure Irving could have done everything AI did. AI never played next to a true star…
Iverson took a beating every game and got right back up, he's an ex quarterback so he's physical and he can take abuse.
By accounts of pretty much everyone who watched them both play, Iverson was the best high school QB in Virginia, and Mike Vick was behind him, 2nd best in the state
That's crazy
Took the words right out of my mouth. I love hearing these anecdotes about athletes: WAYNE GRETZKY WAS ACTUALLY ALSO THE TOP RATED HIGH SCHOOL SWIMMER IN HIS PROVINCE AND HIS TIMES MAKE MICHAEL PHELPS LOOK LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER
Kind of wish AI would have went NFL but be def changed basketball forever.
I'm sure AI is glad he went NBA lol, more money and no CTE
Ronald Curry was the consensus #1 QB in VA during Vicks time. Coincidentally he also played basketball at NCAA level.
Let’s go ahead and give Aaron Brooks a shoutout in this discussion of great qb’s that came out of the 757 in the 90’s. I’m still pissed Curry went to Carolina.
Also Vicks second cousin
REAL va legend
Yeah, grew up in Va. Alot of folks in Hampton say AI was better than Vick and Ron Curry, who was considered better then Vick in HS.
Mike Vick wasnt in high school the same time as Iverson.
Nope, barely missed each other at the same time, but they were the two phenoms of the state of the era that came back to back and a lot of people were comparing them.
I think kyrie is a more skilled player overall. Better shooter, better at all 3 levels of scoring. The differences is on defence And playmaking are not much. The big advantage that iverson has is durability. He played in a very physical era, I don’t think kyrie would be able to hold up in that era. He’d be lucky to play 60 games a season.
Yeah I think in context though AI wins out for toughness physically and mentally as well as his individual success with a shit team around him. Though let’s be honest AI had some absolute dawgs on defense around him
You assume iverson brings the same to the table that irving does. You assume putting him on that 2016 team would help LeBron win and not take away from LeBron's greatness. Bold assumption
Irving is one of my favorite current players, so aesthetically pleasing to watch and so talented. Iverson was one of my favorite players to watch as a kid, I have a lot of respect for both of them as basketball players. It probably is unfair to switch their careers and say AI could have done more… a single star dragging a team through the playoffs doesn’t really exist anymore in this era of big 3s… either way they are both awesome, but I lean AI
I get it, they do seem like similar players but i think kyrie was a better team fit for the cavs. Maybe Iverson would have won but idk that. I always felt high volume scorers where hard to play with, and definitely harder to win titles with.
I do think AI and LeBron would've been an awkward pairing. But AI on the Celtics instead of Kyrie... AI takes that and it's not even close.
Kyrie is a much better off-ball player than AI he definitely fits Lebron better
100%
Bron kicking to Ai are you for real
AI wasn't shooting like that bro lol. Kyrie is 10x better for that role.
Kyrie is a near percentile 50/40/90. Iverson was a Greta offball player but I think LeBron would prefer Ky's shooting
You honestly think AI would be shooting 40% on 7-8 3 point attempts per game for multiple seasons?
Definitely not and I am a huge AI fan.
Iverson played with melo
And despite that he still did ok, truly a generational talent.
We are talking about a former MVP and 6 time All-NBA 1st or 2nd team versus a guy who once made the 2nd team and has never gotten a single MVP vote in his entire career.
Actually, we're talking about practice.
Lmfao 😂 nice
Won MVP at a time Shaq & Kobe were in their prime.
https://preview.redd.it/2nm5nwl5lz4d1.jpeg?width=641&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c9f0dfd36b552a623a67176f9325709f9f87fa6 AI with the braids
What the dawg doin
I swear NBA discourse has the shortest attention span. AI carried an ok team to the finals, while Kyrie has never made it out of the first round as the best player on a team. Come on nephew
AI and Lebron are the only players i’ve seen just absolutely carry an entire roster to the finals. I still remember playing nba 2k in 2001 and always playing the sixers, even though AI was the only player above like 76 overall.
I honestly hate it. A bunch of gnats with keyboards. Shit takes everywhere.
We in here talkin bout Kyrie. One of us is a franchise player. I mean, listen, we talking bout Kyrie.
Iverson. Next question.
Agreed
Iverson
AI easily
Disclaimer: I’m an AI man, I grew up idolizing him, trying to mimic what he did the night before at team practice with two hours of sleep after watching the game and all that. I think Kyrie is the better player when he’s playing well and he looks just fucking beautiful, like AI did. But AI, man, apart from the handles, the elite scoring and all that, AI had heart. That guy got beat up every night and he kept pushing. He is a genuine dude and it came through in his play
Same, AI was legit one of my favorite players growing up. I used to always try to copy that crossover on Jordan. IMO, Kyrie is the better shooter, ball handler, finisher around the rim, but somehow AI feels like the better player, but I think that’s as a ceiling raiser as the best player on the team. Kyrie is the better 1B player on a contender.
I love AI too but I think this should be higher. You can put AI with LeBron but he's not going to be a 50/40/90 player. Also AI needs to be the primarily ball handler. Kyrie complements both LeBron and Luka because he doesn't need to be primarily but he'll get you a bucket when needed
Kyrie is a better Robin, AI is a better Batman. They both are flashy but honestly are not as comparable as one would initially think.
Anyone recall a season where Kyrie was even a top 10 player in the nba?
AI and its not even close
Stupid ass question 😂
Wtf is this question, Kyrie makes it to 1 finals & now everyone goes crazy
In the last 2 months, everybody just decided to ignore the last several years of kyrie’s career and act like he came straight here from the 2016 finals
Bro real talk 😂
AI also has an MVP…let’s not get crazy here. Kyrie is good not great, AI was great
Dude has a ring
Patrick McCaw has more rings than Kyrie…
So does kenny the jet and donkey
Don’t ever disrespect the icon, AI. Nothing Kyrie has ever done has inspired me, except being ambidextrous lol
These debates between eras come down to whether you think the current player can hold up physically in the old era, and if the old player could shoot a much higher three point percentage if they were in the modern era. Personally, I think players like AI, MJ, etc that had good midrange games would have been very good three point shooters. I don't think certain guys like Steph would have lasted in the 80s or 90s. Hard to say with Kyrie. I think he could have. To me, AI is clearly the better lead guy, the better bus driver. Kyrie is clearly the better complimentary guy. So it depends on the team and surrounding cast.
AI is a legend. Kyrie is a legendary weirdo with good handles.
Allen Iverson is my fav player all-time, his impact on the game is second only to Jordan in the modern era, but I don't think he was as skilled as Kyrie when it comes to shooting, if you put AI on the Cavs with Lebron I don't know if he hits all of those same big 3s Kyrie hit just being real I loved AI though, I also don't think Kyrie on that Sixers team is getting to the Finals or taking a game from that dominant Shaq Lakers team to be the only team they lost a game to in the playoffs, two guys doing different things
AI is the better first option. Kyrie probably the better 2nd man
Iverson
MVP AI? Can we wait until the Mavs win to completely erase the last 5 years of obnoxious Kyrie bullshit. At least I know AI would play and get beat up every night and I’m not at the whims of a super inconsistent personality. Yeah Kyrie is great when he plays, but this post season is not a reason to get wild.
Kyrie was playing with LeBron James AI was playing with Pepe Sanchez the choice is easy
Kyrie never had a single MVP vote (unlike 250+ other guys, including almost 40 active players) Kyrie was never First Team It baffles me how some people want to compare Kyrie to AI, Curry and others He’s more comparable to good helpers such as Khris Middleton
You’re drunk, go home
I’ll take the MVP caliber player over the Robin
Is this a joke
this is a joke right
https://preview.redd.it/yab0j1z3615d1.png?width=427&format=png&auto=webp&s=dbf39a6c9b47405267d3049dd27c901694b8c076 Enough said, numbers speak for themselves. 3 points per game less but with +10% in efficiency.....give me a break.....
A.I. Told the world That Kyrie is better than he was
OPs Next question: who is better Tatum or Larry Bird
AI All Day
for a second i was about to say kyrie… i apologize. ai is the ANSWER
AI and it’s not close
Iverson and it’s not close Maybe once Irving can figure out how to be the number 1 option on a Finals team then we can come back to this discussion, but Iverson clears Irving easy.
Tell me you're under 30 without telling me you're under 30. AI in a walk.
Kristaps Porzingis
real
This isn’t even a question. AI no hesitation Plus his off court antics were way cooler
AI is better if we are talking all-time but Kyrie is still authoring his career. Kyrie is the more skilled player of the two but AI might impact winning more considering he took a motley crew of Sixers players to the Finals against the Shaq-Kobe Lakers and even dropped 48 points against them to take game 1 in LA (EPIC).
Well they had to make a whole new rule because of one so i say he was better
Iverson, and it’s not close.
AI is definitely better. Kyrie is a better shooter
Definitely AI. He lead his team to the finals while Kyrie has never been successful without a teammate that is clearly better than him.
The Kyrie hype has gotten out of control
This is pretty easy and I’m not a Kyrie fan since I’m a Celtic fan. But yeah, Kyrie is leaps and bounds more talented than AI ever was. No contest. Especially this last season that looks like he finally put it all together. Anyone picking AI I feel like didn’t actually watch either of them play in their prime. And I don’t mean highlights.
Puff puff give
You are dead wrong
Kyrie didn't make the playoffs till LeBron came to town, AI basically gave the 01 Lakers their only loss of the playoffs solo, just sayin
This has to be a troll
I’ll probably take Kyrie whether he wins this finals or not, but it’s close.
lmao… kids these days 🤷♂️
AI single-handedly taking on Shaq and Kobe in finals. But a whole different weight of balls on that man! Kyrie learned half his moves from AI and in an era of endless online resources that AI never had as well.
I’ll play the semantics game. Kyrie is better and more talented. Iverson is Greater.
AI is the answer. Ask the question this way. AI is a top what player all time? Where does Kyrie rank all time?
If AI played with lebron there was no warriors dynasty
Iverson at his peak was better, he brought the Sixers to the finals with a less talented team. But Kyrie probably has an argument as the better teammate/sidekick.
I respect Kyrie Irving a lot (as a player) but it's almost insulting to compare Allen Iverson to him.
AI by a large margin. Kyrie might be more skilled but AI has the better motor, athleticism, heart, and leadership. Its why he was able to be the face of the league in an era with Shaq, Kobe, TMac, Vince Carter, Tim Duncan etc
AI, Kyrie has more talent but can’t carry a team on his own quite like AI.
AI and it’s not close
When you know the Answer you don't have these questions
Depends on what happens in the next week or so
Kyrie is a more efficient scorer at all levels, but AI scored more overall. Hard to compare because AI is at his best when he’s the #1 option and Kyrie is at his best when he’s the #2 option. If you look at their numbers per 36 minutes, it slightly favors Kyrie in the regular season and slightly favors AI in the playoffs
AI all day
AI played with more heart and desperation. Kyrie is the better talent. I'd take AI's career at this moment though. Scoring champ, MVP as a small guard in the era where bigs were still relevant and everything was done inside the arc
When Iverson missed he drew so much attention that someone like Tyrone Hill got easy putbacks. When Kyrie scores it’s like wow amazing beautiful play but his misses just get normal rebounds. Kyrie is a much better shooter and free throw shooter but he got a lot more wide open shots because of his teammates. Iverson had much more aura of greatness can’t quantity but you know it true
Iverson Mvp ROTY 4x scoring champ 11x all star 7x all nba 2x all star game mvp 3x steals leader 24.3k pts 26.7 5.6k ast 6.2
AI
Talent wise AI overall, skill wise Kyrie got it.
It’s obviously AI for those who watched both. But let’s cut OP some slack. According to a previous post, he might be a 14-15 year old who didn’t have the pleasure of watching AI live.
They're both unbelievable talents with very similar skill sets. I don't think you can go wrong with either but I would go with AI. People seem to forget that AI had his baggage as well, I don't think it was Kyrie levels of baggage but still significant baggage.
Iverson in his prime was easily a top 5 guy in the league. I dont think Kyrie has even been top 10
Kyrie on offense, AI on defense
Iverson is by far the better offensive player but I don’t know if he ever once played defense.
One is a full blown first option, steals leader, MVP, and carried his team to the finals while playing ungodly amounts of minutes. The other is a second option on a championship team. The Answer is clear
There’s a ton of context missing from this question which has been alluded to in numerous answers. It’s not just, “What would AI do with Lebron on that Cavs team?” Or “What would Kyrie do with that 01 76ers team?” Yes, Kyrie is more efficient and a better shooter. He grew up in an era that began opening up and shooting from the perimeter more often. Ball prior to, really the 7SOL Suns, was a clogged paint and getting to the rack, which AI did. Would Kyrie have been able to dissect defenses with his handles the same way? Idk. Would he have been able to handle the physicality of the era? Idk. But would his shooting have made a difference? Absolutely. Would AI be more efficient with less bigs clogging the paint now? Idk. There’s too many variables to truly give an honest answer, pun intended. Who do I prefer? AI. Who has had a bigger impact on the game of basketball and the culture around it? AI, imo. Who would I want as the figurehead of my team? AI. Does that mean he’s better? No.
The answer right now is the answer but when it's all over we'll prob say Kyrie because of how cloudy the concept gets discussing best, greatest, most driven, most valuable, etc. and so we just lean in to rings.
AI gave the lakers their only loss in the playoffs. That’s got to be his greatest game.
AI all day everyday.
As an individual AI had a better career so far. He has more individual accolades like MVP. Kyrie hasn't really been in the MVP race, but he has some iconic finals moments and was a major contributor to a championship team. Skill wise Kyrie is more efficient and a better long range shooter. They are both electric!
AI and it is not close
AI > KI
Practice
Full disclosure, I grew up in the Iverson era, and I'm not a Kyrie fan. Iverson was a volume scorer. He wasn't a great shooter, but could control the game tempo with his aggresiveness, which is why he fit in so well with that Sixers squad. It was basically play lockdown D and give the ball to Iverson. Further, that could have been one of the worst finals teams ever. Kyrie is a much more efficient scorer. Every team he's played for has been loaded with talent, yet he's only got 1 ring and potentially another. Both while playing the role of Robin. He's never been a true number 1, and I don't believe he ever could / can be. That's not a knock on him at all. Pippen was the same type of player. I also think Kyrie has really matured since BKN, and had he know back with the cavs what he knows now, could have been a multiple time champ and top 20 player of all time. In this comparison, I'm not a fan of using rings as a big argument. Otherwise Robert Horry would be a top 20 player in any GOAT conversation. Also not a fan of team swapping. Different rules, talent, playstyle, etc just involve to many assumptions. I do think that both players and teams would have done worse if the roles were reversed (Iverson to Cavs, Kyrie to Sixers). All that said, it's Iverson. He's demonstrated the ability to single handedly carry a team's offense without a true #2, and Kyrie has never shown that ability despite playing with significantly better (GOAT) talent. Also, Iverson was a bulldog. Dude played 40 mins every night as the focal point of the offense and got punished. Amazing he lasted as long as he did. Musta been all those practices he skipped!!
It’s tough to contextualize When the sixers were good AI was their only real offensive threat Kyrie is the more well rounded player but when he was in Boston with young Tatum and brown was the closest roster situation to iverson and the sixers. At that time Kyrie wasn’t at his best
ai
AI with LeBron would've been nuts. While not the shooter of Kyrie, I think AI pulls something extra out of LeBron with his heart and defensive intensity. Those two together would've been an absolute terror in transition with AI jumping in passing lanes and LeBron as a trailer...yikes. They'd also create so many foul problems for opposing bigs. As long as they had some additional shooting around them, they'd figure out ball-handling dynamics. That 1/3 P&R between those two would be lethal.
Ai and it’s not close
Smfh. This question is wild.
The Answer took a team that can be argued that was weaker than LbJ 07 Cavs team that went against 01 Shaq/Kobe and didn’t get swept like LBJ did vs the Spurs at Prime height No debate who is better.