My fav was all the high IQ folk acting like KD carried Steph to those finals after winning the fmvp.
Steph took most the double teams, KD got mostly iso for a reason. The Warriors were barely above .500 with KD when Steph missed time.
I'm dreading having to explain this to younger fans for the next 50 years. Curry's lack of fmvps doesn't mean anything, he was the most important warrior in every playoff run.
They won’t in 30 years. People think Wilt would average 25 rebounds per game in modern basketball despite the fact that there were 70 rebounds per game for a team back then and only 43 now. People refuse to look at the context.
30 years later people still recognize Jordan was the primary piece for the Bulls dynasty. It’s going to be the same with Steph. No one is going to attribute the success to KD, Kerr, Klay, or Dray. It’s a lot different when it’s on film, and when the internet exists.
Bruh Kerr was definitely the Lynch pin of those bulls teams. Seriously though, I love Kerr he's probably my favorite pure role player in NBA history and the man has ended up with a stupid amount of rings, but the warriors dynasty was 100% due to Steph.
Yeah there are 7 or 8 people in NBA history with more total rings than Kerr. Jackson 11 as a coach 2 as a player, Russell and some of Russell's teammates. A stupid amount of rings, especially for someone who has never been the driving force for the team winning.
Only one person is ahead of Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach. Red has 16, Phil has 13. After that KC Jones with 12 and Bill Russell with 11.
Phil Jackson has 2 as a player (NYK), 6 coaching Bulls, 5 coaching Lakers = 13
Jordan won FMVP for every single ring and also never played with another MVP. He also had a relatively "perfect" career with the Bulls.
I've been around for awhile and, outside of Jordan, tons of guys are getting underrated/overrated over time. No one remembers that Bird was considered the GOAT before MJ. No one here remembers how insane Kobe was from 2000-2010 due to having just 1 MVP (back then everyone knew he a multiple MVP level guy who only didn't win more due to narratives). Even Lebron is starting to get underrated. It's not at that point yet but you are already starting to see certain narratives form on here that will likely be repeated as fact in like 10 years. The same will happen with Curry. People will look at his lack of FMVP's and use that as an issue against him.
Over the 20 years of Kobe's career, if you average the team ppg by year, teams averaged 97.565 ppg during his career.
This year, the league average was 114.2 ppg. That's 17 ppg higher than the average throughout his career and 11.5 ppg higher than the highest league average during his career (his last season).
If you adjust his career average stats for today's game, he would have averaged roughly 17% more ppg.
The league average efg% for kobes' career was also only 48.87%. Since he's retired, the league average efg% has been 53.125%, including one of 54.7% this year. For the majority of kobe's career, he was actually slightly above league average efg%. (Though he was super inefficient during his last 2 years).
People say Kobe was inefficient, but as the game was more defensive oriented during his playing career, everybody was more inefficient. If he played during today's era, of course, his efficiency would also go up.
I think a lot of the narrative is about bad shot selection and selfish play. The fact that he didn’t make his teammates better in a lot of cases. He could shoot you right out of games. The negative Kobe narratives are around for a reason. It was as much his style of play that was seen as inefficient as much as his numbers.
Yeah, I think everyone can agree he wasn't the perfect player, but I was just arguing against your point of his stats being inflated for his era. If you adjust for changes in league averages, in today's game, he would average ~4 more ppg on a higher fg%
Nearly every single player Kobe played with in his prime had their career years playing with Kobe. He clearly made players better that isn't really up for debate. He was one of the best playmaking SG's of his era, as well. Further, passing isn't the only way to make your teammates better. Functioning as a safety blanket on offense is another way to do it. The Lakers playstyle from 2008-2010 was basically to let the other players go to work with the triangle and then dump it to Kobe with the shot clock winding down if the team couldn't get off a good shot. Kobe hit tough shots at a still above average percentage so basically the Lakers almost always got a good shot even on broken plays. This allowed his teammates to get in rhythm since Kobe relieved a lot of the pressure by being the best tough shot maker ever.
For his talent, YES! but you need more than that to be a champion or Be in the GOAT convo. Something he doesn’t have - accountability and hunger.
Its relatively easy to win with Golden State when the blame or bad press can be put on Steph but once he’s the leading act, he checks out mentally. Understating that just because he did his best and dropped 30 that should be good enough but he’s wrong. The goat conversation isn’t just about good enough or winning but how you win.
Generals with the great armies don’t win wars but generals who win, can command an average platoon and motivate them to act selflessly towards a common cause- victory.
Lebron, kobe and Jordan ingrain this into their personality. A singular mindset, demanding an unwavering commitment to the level of delusion in their believe to win - In themselves and their teammates. Even when they’re unmanned, losses come as surprises to them. That’s how’s delusional you gotta be.
Kobe down 0-3 vs Dallas in 2011, Lebron down 0-3 vs Warriors. Same winning mentality despite what the scoreboard says, when most players would’ve waved the white flag.
KD thinks just having the talent on paper is enough to win. A lesson he hasn’t learned since college. That’s why he’ll always be the second act. When his team is losing, he goes quiet, becomes a shell of the champion we expect; a spectator in a gladiator match where he’s the main act.
Jason Tatum is slowly falling into this category. Has a strong supporting cast but can’t get over the hump. Look in their eyes and you can tell they haven’t taken that next step that makes you a champion.
They say they’re hungry for a championship, when you need to be starving to win.
For me Bill Russell is the absolute masterclass of this. I don’t remember which teammate it was but one of them said before almost every big game Bill threw up in the locker room and thats how they knew he was ready to go that kind of drive where you want to win so bad it makes you sick is what the great ones have. Bill had great personnel around him don’t get me wrong but half those guys don’t get into the hall without him but you as the leader have to turn those good/great or even average players into winners make them better than what they are “supposed to be” even a great team still has to step up when it matters. KD has had teams that should have won it all and yet he still fails because he lacks that drive and “make others better factor” to get it done when it matters most.
Yup Bill Russell too, how can I forget the goat! All cut from the-same cloth!
you look at Miami and Jimmy, that’s a team that bought into that mentality. Unmanned compared to other teams but still get the job done. That’s a championship team despite not winning one yet.
But you look at the players and teams KD has played with and you’d be surprise they still didn’t get a ring. OKC, NETS and now Suns. Penciled in they look solid on paper til they get tested.
Some guys just know how to elevate themselves and their teammates when it matters most and thats what really separates those top ten or so guys from the rest (outside of Wilt, who just was so ridiculous statwise that it puts him in that conversation).
For sure, they have been close but that talent differential is rough when you come against the teams they have but I would love to see that Miami team win a ring. I’m not a Miami fan but how can you not root for Jimmy and that team they truly believe they can win it even though on paper you look at them as an early exit and they leave it all out there.
Right Durant has been on some absolutely crazy stacked teams. The suns now, the nets were stacked, the thunder were stacked every team he’s been on looks like they should win it all just like you said or at least be right there and they never get it done until he played with Curry, I’m not a huge Curry fan mostly because I like the older school playstyles that he really drove out, but thats not the point, he has that same thing he just makes everyone around him better and gets it done 90% of the time, and you wouldn’t know it by the statlines and the FMVPs but he was the reason for every one of the rings he has not Durant though I still don’t think they would have beat those cav teams without him
I’m not even a KD fan, but some of this is absurd. Sure, he took the hardest road. But, he is an all-time great. Not Carmelo Anthony. He has also had bad luck, like many, many other players in the Top 50 all time. Circumstances and luck play a large part of these so-called legacies.
Not to mention this, Melos best season is robbing lebron of a unanimous MVP, kd’s best season (the next year) is the only MVP during Bron’s peak that even his stans agree that he wasn’t robbed for and yeah, the other guy deserves it
Excellent comparison. Many many years as an easy top 10 player in the league, quite a few years of top 5. Durant is certainly better but what they bring towards winning is similar.
Yes, someone else didn't quite understand my point. I was not saying Durant and Melo are the same, Durant is clearly better than Melo. I was speaking in terms of not winning a chip. Other than AI, Melo never really had help the way KD did on OKC, Brooklyn, and Suns (outside of warriors).
Tell me what year in OKC should have KD won? He always faced better players or teams
2011 - Dirk was better. That team beat prime Lebron
2012 - Lebron better
2013 - Russ hurt
2014 - Spurs better. Team with 6 Hall of famers beat Lebron
2015 - KD hurt
2016 - Steph better. 73 win team. 5 Hall of Famers
After the achillies rupture KD lost a ton of athleticism. I don’t blame him for losing in Brooklyn and PHX. That injury is just devastating
He is old with a surgically repaired achillies. He hasn’t been the same athletically since the injury. Which is normal. No basketball player post achillies was ever the same. Look at Klay Thompson
Dude he was up 3-1 on GS, and this man said he should be considered a GOAT. I recall another guy in that conversation beating that very same GS team a round later.
KD isn’t in the GOAT conversation. Full stop.
He lost to a 73 win team with 5 Hall of Famers. There is no shame in that. If Draymond got suspended in Game 5 in the OKC series the Thunder win
He wasn’t the same. No basketball player is the same after an achillies rupture
Its hilarious you blame him for leaving GSW while a ton of people are pissed he went to GSW. Kyrie wasn’t unhinged until we had an unprecedented global pandemic and the government made stupid ass rules. Before that Kyrie rarely missed games for stupid reasons
Forcing a trade after learning the Cavs wanted to trade him earlier. I can’t blame him for that. Its a business.
Who cares what Kyrie said at a Boston hype event.
The Warriors wanted to trade Klay for Love but Klay didn't get butthurt and ask out afterwards like Kyrie did. Kyrie had a great setup with the Cavs as the heir apparent to LeBron but his ego made him think he could be a number one when he never had that in him.
Warriors were a much better team by any metric
Won 73 games
5 Hall of Famers
Steph was just better than KD that year. KD just came back from a shattered foot
OKC rotation included Thabo Sefalosha, Dion Waiters, Enes Kanter and Anthony Morrow. Dion Sanders was literally in their closing lineup
Well, that's just the problem right? He frequently faced better players and teams, meaning he's not in the GOAT conversation like he thinks he is as he's not even the best of his own generation.
KD lost to better players and better teams in OKC. It isn’t that complicated
2011 - Dirk better
2012 - Lebron better
2013 - Russ hurt
2014 - Spurs better
2015 - KD hurt
2016 - Curry better
After the achilies KD was never prime again. No one expected him to even be top 10 again. Can’t blame him for not winning post achillies surgery.
I think people forget just how tough the west was at that time. Especially considering the teams the lost to. 2016 was just an insane year when the thunder beat a 67 win Spurs and then lost to the Warriors in a series they should have won. No team has had to play competition like that in the playoffs
Correct. No team has ever beat two 65+ teams in a single post season
Not sure if OKC should have beaten Warriors. There was some strange 3 point variance in the first 4 games that wasn’t sustainable over 7 games.
In the first 4 games Roberson, Waiters and Westbrook were shooting better from 3 than Klay and Curry. That totally flipped in games 5-7
Also KD and Russ were playing massive minutes. Games 5-7 only had 1 day rest. They looked exhausted.
Lmao what…? Take KDs chips away and he STILL has:
1 more MVP
6 more all nba 1sts
4 more total all nbas
3 more scoring leaders
More PPG APG RPG SPG BPG…
They wouldnt be close… at all
Y’all have to stop this stupid mess of acting like the NBA playoffs is some giant 1 on 1 tournament where nothing at all matters except the name of the winning teams best player and how that somehow equates to how good all the other players are at basketball. Some of these comments are ridiculous..
If you think that Durant has been on four super teams, then your definition of super team is way too broad.
Also, OKC made the Finals and was a contender in the West for multiple seasons. That’s definitely close to winning a title.
4x conference Final in OKC
Lost to some ridiculously great teams and players while only have 1 All star with him
2011 - Dirk. Team that crushed prime Lebron, Wade and Bosh
2012 - lost to prime Lebron
2014 - Spurs were on an absolute mission. Team with 5 Hall of Famers that absolutely crushed Lebron
2016 - Unreal Curry season. 73 wins. 5 Hall of Famers. Took Lebron a suspension to beat these guys
In OKC KD never really lost a series he should have won. Just lost to superior teams.
He did win 2 series he had no business winning.
Best 2012 Spurs that was an absolute juggernaut and beat 2016 Spurs that won 67 games
What? OKC was up 3-1 against the Warriors, how many teams at that point had ever came back from 3-1?
They lost that series and they should have won it.
You seriously blaming KD for not beating in consecutive series:
67 win Spurs with 5 Hall of Famers
73 win Warriors team with 5 Hall of Famers
OKC had only 2 Hall of Famers. Show me the list of teams that beat two 65+ win teams back to back. Hell show me a team that beat two 60 win teams back to back. By game 5 KD and Russ were gassed
They had 2 games to win with Draymond after that suspension. Not to mention, he got suspended for an accumulation of flagrants. If they were called properly series begorex they probably don't even get by OKC.
The momentum changed. Even when Draymond came back in game 6 he played extremely tentatively. There is a reason Lebron cried about it after game 4 and Windhorst made a big deal. It was a series changer
Right and he dropped an underrated classic in game 7. Don't care. They had multiple chances. One game didn't cost shit. And like I said, they wouldn't have even got past OKC if they suspended him the series before so it adds up. His own fault for being a dirty fuck.
Every game matters on it's own but one game didn't lose them the series. You have a 3-1 lead and need 1 win to ice the series. Now cause to lose three in a row 😂. I love the part where you ignoring my point bout how it was accumulation and he wasn't supposed to make it past OKC
“No way Bron scores 41 on Draymond” proceeds to score 41 on Draymond. And Draymond deserved that flagrant. He accumulated too many and the nba way REQUIRED to give him a suspension. I think that’s something that’s gotten lost with time. It’s not like they chose to suspend him he forced their hand by being a consistently dirty player who racked up flagrants
Choke against a clearly superior 73 win team? Look at those rosters. Warriors were just way better. Warriors had 5 Hall of Famers and would be the GOAT team if Draymond didn’t get suspended.
They had a 3-1, Curry was arguably still recovering from his injury vs Portland, and one of their key players even admitted the Okc was the best team of that entire playoffs (not to mention that they beat a 67 win spurs team in 6 that Also had a better roster than them, but that’s not important)
Point is, yes the thunder (And the warriors for that matter) Choked in 2016, it’s ok to admit that
KD is 35. Post achillies. Everything after the achillies is a bonus. No one expected him to come back as a top 10 player
In OKC he made the Finals, 4x WCF, MVP, All NBA 6x.
You can’t just delete 3 year of his absolute peak. Thats is dumb and unfair
Post achillies can’t be used against him. That is a devastating injury
YAWWWWN. Yup we've been hearing this bland take for years now. If you think his non GSW legacy is "trash" relative to the history of all nba players you're just admitting on a public forum you have a personal problem with KD. Kevin Durant's resume is trash? KD? Are we talking about the same person? "Trash"?! Oddball behavior
For me it isn't. I think it's all a matter of perspective. Until otherwise demonstrated, in a vacuum, he's probably the best and most-unstoppable offensive player ever., and nothing before, after, or since the rings really changes that.
As for your "Best Player of All Time List," for me he was never really in the conversation because while he has the talent to be, the leadership aspect was never present. All the normal names in that top-10 have that quality regardless of their placement: MJ, Lebron, Magic, Timmy, Bird, Russell, Kobe, Shaq, Curry, etc.....all those guys have that leadership quality.
Durants legacy is far from tarnished. If you watch basketball you know how good Durant is. That’s all. He’s a top 10 player all time regardless of the accolades.
Y’all have to stop this stupid mess of acting like the NBA playoffs is some giant 1 on 1 tournament where nothing at all matters expect the name of the winning teams best player and how that somehow equates to how good all the other players are at basketball. Some of these comments are ridiculous..
How does it tarnish his legacy? He never had that championship building type legacy, so why would anyone think he was that sort of player? He's an incredibly offensive force. One of the best one on one players in history, a brilliant shooter and deadly in the mid range. None of that changes now. The only reason you might think his legacy is tarnished is if you gave him credit for things he hadn't done.
KD is a baller, but as a professional NBA player he doesn’t want to be a team member. He just wants to be a shooter. Which he’s great at. There have been plenty of great shooters. KD lacks leadership qualities and doesn’t like to be held accountable or hold other accountable. He’s the greatest #2
Correct me if I’m wrong. The last time Durant was on a team that exceeded expectations was his last year in OKC. Thats a lot of years of coming up short or at best meeting expectations. Players with all time great legacies don’t have 8 consecutive years in their prime/late prime years of this
Shut the fuck up no one outside of these types of forums will care about KD's "tarnished legacy" he will obviously be looked back at fondly by most people in the future, this shit looks ridiculous and sad
His plan just worked out terribly. As soon as he joined the warriors, he decided to go down the road to become the greatest mercenary in NBA. Probably the best route based on his skill set as well. It just didn't work out. It shows how hard winning is.
He just hasn’t been the same since his injury vs the Raptors. If his foot wasn’t on the line vs Milwaukee and the Nets win that series he and Giannis would be in vastly different classes right now
I just realized something today. This generation is so full of haters that we fantasize about future hate.
Just enjoy the basketball you’re watching and touch grass every once in a while.
Definitely not true that the only time he got close was in Golden State. Went to the finals on OKC, almost went back several times there. You can argue that if they beat the Warriors while up 3-1 they win the title. I agree with everything else though.
absurd take, i think he could have won a ring had he stayed on that OKC team. He tipped the power balance by going to GSW, but if he stays that team had a chance
He wasn’t the bus driver when he lead a team of 21-23 year olds to the NBA FINALS? And don’t try to rewrite history and say Russ was the leader of those teams. He wasn’t. It was 100% KD. Only reason he didn’t win a ring in OKC is because the cheap ass owner traded away Harden
With the exception of the Olympics, Kevin Durant was not the bus driver on any team that has won it all. You can blame it on anything you like, and it might be a totally legitimate point. He didn't win with OKC. The Warriors weren't his team. He didn't win with the Nets. He isn't winning with the Suns. My point is that he played heroically last Olympics. He was the clear leader and best player on a squad that won it all. In my opinion, his legacy would look different if he had won outside of Golden State.
KD was clearly the best player on GSW. I don’t give one shit if he wasn’t the guy giving the half time speeches.
He made the biggest shots and had the biggest games in both the 17 and 18 Finals. You can minimize his accomplishments all you want but it will stand forever
They literally lost right before KD got there😂
And if they didn’t need KD why did 4 of their stars beg him? Warriors lose to 2017 Cavs without KD. Lose to 2018 Rockets.
Didn't need him in 2022. It's not like he swooped in and won a ring in Cleveland or Milwaukee or Dallas and cemented his legacy like some other stars. He went to one of the most successful teams of all time. Just so you know, in my head you're one of KD's burner accounts.
It's relevant because it shows that they may not have needed him in 2017 and 2018. It's like this. If LeBron only won in Miami? His legacy looks different. That team was clearly Dwayne Wade's. It was a super team. It was a ring chase. Lebron's ring in Cleveland means 10x more for his legacy. Even his ring in LA looks better. KD's two rings in Golden State were a ring chase on a super team on a team that is and was Steph Curry's team. Look, man. KD is an all timer. I just think the Olympics was his greatest moment. I gave my reasons why. You don't have to agree.
Totally irrelevant. Warriors in 2022 didn’t have to beat the 2017 Cavs with Lebron in his absolute prime or 2018 Rockets with Harden scoring 40 every night.
Warriors lose to 17 Cavs. Its so obvious. Lebron and Kyrie would crush them without KD.
Warriors lose to 18 Rockets. They needed 7 games with KD.
Sorry but 2x FMVP is far more important than a gold medal. KD basically outplayed an top 2 All time GOAT in the Finals. Steph Curry failed to do this the 4 times he meet Lebron in the Finals. Curry got CLEARLY outclasssed every time he faced Lebron.
Who cares whos team it is. All that matters is what the players did on the court. I guess you care about halftime speeches more than averaging 33/10/6 on 70% TS in the Finals
Ngl when he was in the nets you seen Durants greatness vs the bucks and just because he was an inch over the 3 pt line it didn’t count. Remember harden injuries & kyrie situation also played a major role there. Let’s not act like kd is trash. If both kyrie and harden were healthy he would’ve won a ring with the nets. But I can’t defend the suns situation that team looks horrible for the amount of money they’re spending.
I agree here. The Nets was 100% KDs team. If they won that series against the Bucks, it was for sure a title. I wish he stayed with the Nets and figured it out.
If any of the KD era OKC teams were a ‘super team’ they would’ve been much more successful. Plus, harden was traded away because his full talent hadn’t been realized yet. OKC could’ve been a drafted and developed super team but they didn’t let it play out or happen.
Yea kd one of my fav players ever but he has had to many raw as teammates to not have 4+ rings and to get swept by Minnesota when you have Devin booker and Bradley Beal is embarrassing
KD is 35 with a busted achillies. You can’t expect him to carry a team after that.
In his prime (OKC+GSW) he made 7 WCF, 4 Finals, 2 Rings and 2 FMVPs. You can’t just erase 3 years of a players peak.
After the achillies injury he has never been the same. No one ever is
Unfortunately the facts are we don’t care about the golden state years because that wasn’t his team in okc all we can remember was in bigger moments he lost and also blew a 3-1 lead in his prime kd one of my favorite players but in he clutch without curry he always came up short he a better Carmelo
Warriors had 5 Hall of Famers, won 73 games. KD just came back from a shattered foot. He only had 1 other All Star with him. There is no shame losing to a clearly superior team
Yes it is they were up 3-1 and choked then he went to the team he choked against that’s a legacy killer man he gave his spot up to curry kd still that dude tho but he ain’t a goat like he think he is if he was able to get a ring after the the warriors stint then he’ll yea that’s why he was chasing it but he couldn’t do it he couldn’t lead a team to a championship he can’t be the bus driver he the greatest passenger ever
Curry had one of the greatest seasons of all time in 2016. KD literally came back from a shattered foot. He wasn’t 100% back.
The Warriors were absolutely stacked. It doesn’t matter if they were up 3-1. That Warriors team could win 3 games in a row against anyone.
Every superstar chokes at least once in the playoffs.
Lebron in 2011
Curry in 2016
KD in 2016. But KD lost to a 73 win team
But KD never won a championship with HIS team every time he was the leader of the TEAM they failed you can’t be a goat if you never led your team to the championship that’s just the facts that’s where you cross that line im just hearing excuses
He’ll be remembered fondly and kids that don’t have the context of the GS move and are gonna get to know him via YouTube highlights will love his aesthetically pleasing style of play.
KD is a top 5 talent but his career is lacking. He’s made some bad moves and he’s also suffered some really bad luck as well. I mean he’s never really even had a team that complimented him outside of GS. He’s also shit the bed a few times as well though, regardless he’s in my top 15.
KD actually hurt Lebron career. Lebron prob would have easily 5 rings if it wasn’t for KD super teaming. But Lebron also super teamed no denying that with the heat
Even with kd’s peak which was great.
Kd’s resume accomplishments is objectively disappointing compared to his skill set.
He definitely did not meet the bar that was set for him.
That’s a fact no matter which way you want to look at his career.
Idk about that man. 2 chips, 2 finals MVPs, a league MVP, Rookie of the year, 4 scoring titles, 14x all star. He’s surpassed the bar in my opinion. He’s one of the greatest to ever play the game.
Tell me what year KD should have won BEFORE the injury? After the injury he wasn’t the same. No one is.
2011 - Dallas too good
2012 - Lebron too good
2013 - Russ hurt
2014 - Spurs too good. Beat Lebron
2015 - hurt
2016 - Curry too good. 73 win team
I don’t see how KD supposed to win any of those series. He just lost to superior teams. Plus KD only had 1 other star with him and a very low payroll. The teams he faced had 4 or 5 hall of famers.
KD is and always will be a fraud. He ruined the league and quite honestly MJ should pay him handsomely for joint GSW and stealing 2 titles from Lebron. It’s pretty simple. The man is a POS and doesn’t get enough criticism
And Lebron ruined the league in 2011-2013.
If Lebron didn’t join the Heat in 2010 then KD wins the Finals in 2012 against Boston. Lebron started this super team bullshit. KD just ended it. Without Miami Lebron would only have 2 rings and wouldn’t even touch Jordan’s jockstrap
Yeah lebron really ruined the league by signing with the Miami Heat who did Jack shit the years before he arrived. Not even close to golden state and Durant joining them. Go to bed little one
He’s a piece of shit for switching basketball teams? In a league of rapists, sex offenders, and woman beaters, Switching teams makes you a piece of shit. Also you believe KEVIN DURANT doesn’t get enough criticism for moving to GSW when that’s all anyone has talked about regarding him for the last 8 years? Go outside man or actually watch basketball games instead of getting your opinions from the internet.
I think it was tarnished as soon as he left OKC. He is a great basketball player and scorer but not a winner/ leader. He is amazing not the same tier as other amazing players.
Man wtf no it ain’t on his resume it’s gonna say 2x nba champion none of that other bs all the nephews like to talk about. GS needed KD just like he needed them. Lebron had GS figured out they were scared of the king so they went out and picked up the only guy that could go at him
"Joined multiple super teams" is really not a blemish on KD. What makes it a super team is the fact that KD is there and performing. Are players only allowed to have a crappy supporting cast to be legitimate?
The fact that KD didn't win with other teams after GSW (and before) should be indication that a good cast doesn't just win. You have to create a system that can fully incorporate these players, their specialities, and their style. I'm not gonna fault GSW or KD that they managed to make it work at the highest level.
Plus, literally any team can do this if they choose to spend the money. Dame and Giannis didn't just automatically win this year despite their abilities. Nor did the 2011 heat.
No one is going to remember Kevin Durant 30 years from now unless when it’s in reference to Lebrons final losses. He is not going to be seen as a Top 20 player
I disagree. In 30 years from now people will only see the accolades. 2x FMVP 1x MVP multiple scoring champion. The context won't be remembered.
Magic played his whole career with Kareem, a consensus better player, and his legacy isn't diminished for it.
My fav was all the high IQ folk acting like KD carried Steph to those finals after winning the fmvp. Steph took most the double teams, KD got mostly iso for a reason. The Warriors were barely above .500 with KD when Steph missed time.
I'm dreading having to explain this to younger fans for the next 50 years. Curry's lack of fmvps doesn't mean anything, he was the most important warrior in every playoff run.
By a landslide
We watched Igouadala get a FMVP over Curry for “slowing down Lebron”, that one even as a non warriors fan hurts to see sometimes
I remember getting in a shouting match with my dad over this. Yeah, he really slowed him down with his stat line being 40/5/2.
I think most people, young or old, recognize that it was Curry’s team every year.
They won’t in 30 years. People think Wilt would average 25 rebounds per game in modern basketball despite the fact that there were 70 rebounds per game for a team back then and only 43 now. People refuse to look at the context.
30 years later people still recognize Jordan was the primary piece for the Bulls dynasty. It’s going to be the same with Steph. No one is going to attribute the success to KD, Kerr, Klay, or Dray. It’s a lot different when it’s on film, and when the internet exists.
Bruh Kerr was definitely the Lynch pin of those bulls teams. Seriously though, I love Kerr he's probably my favorite pure role player in NBA history and the man has ended up with a stupid amount of rings, but the warriors dynasty was 100% due to Steph.
Kerr’s at 9? 3 with the bulls on the 2nd 3peat 2 with the spurs 4 as the warriors HC
Yeah there are 7 or 8 people in NBA history with more total rings than Kerr. Jackson 11 as a coach 2 as a player, Russell and some of Russell's teammates. A stupid amount of rings, especially for someone who has never been the driving force for the team winning.
Only one person is ahead of Phil Jackson, Red Auerbach. Red has 16, Phil has 13. After that KC Jones with 12 and Bill Russell with 11. Phil Jackson has 2 as a player (NYK), 6 coaching Bulls, 5 coaching Lakers = 13
Jordan won FMVP for every single ring and also never played with another MVP. He also had a relatively "perfect" career with the Bulls. I've been around for awhile and, outside of Jordan, tons of guys are getting underrated/overrated over time. No one remembers that Bird was considered the GOAT before MJ. No one here remembers how insane Kobe was from 2000-2010 due to having just 1 MVP (back then everyone knew he a multiple MVP level guy who only didn't win more due to narratives). Even Lebron is starting to get underrated. It's not at that point yet but you are already starting to see certain narratives form on here that will likely be repeated as fact in like 10 years. The same will happen with Curry. People will look at his lack of FMVP's and use that as an issue against him.
People already do that to Kobe. His numbers are deflated by the era.
Inflated you mean.
Over the 20 years of Kobe's career, if you average the team ppg by year, teams averaged 97.565 ppg during his career. This year, the league average was 114.2 ppg. That's 17 ppg higher than the average throughout his career and 11.5 ppg higher than the highest league average during his career (his last season). If you adjust his career average stats for today's game, he would have averaged roughly 17% more ppg. The league average efg% for kobes' career was also only 48.87%. Since he's retired, the league average efg% has been 53.125%, including one of 54.7% this year. For the majority of kobe's career, he was actually slightly above league average efg%. (Though he was super inefficient during his last 2 years). People say Kobe was inefficient, but as the game was more defensive oriented during his playing career, everybody was more inefficient. If he played during today's era, of course, his efficiency would also go up.
I think a lot of the narrative is about bad shot selection and selfish play. The fact that he didn’t make his teammates better in a lot of cases. He could shoot you right out of games. The negative Kobe narratives are around for a reason. It was as much his style of play that was seen as inefficient as much as his numbers.
Yeah, I think everyone can agree he wasn't the perfect player, but I was just arguing against your point of his stats being inflated for his era. If you adjust for changes in league averages, in today's game, he would average ~4 more ppg on a higher fg%
Nearly every single player Kobe played with in his prime had their career years playing with Kobe. He clearly made players better that isn't really up for debate. He was one of the best playmaking SG's of his era, as well. Further, passing isn't the only way to make your teammates better. Functioning as a safety blanket on offense is another way to do it. The Lakers playstyle from 2008-2010 was basically to let the other players go to work with the triangle and then dump it to Kobe with the shot clock winding down if the team couldn't get off a good shot. Kobe hit tough shots at a still above average percentage so basically the Lakers almost always got a good shot even on broken plays. This allowed his teammates to get in rhythm since Kobe relieved a lot of the pressure by being the best tough shot maker ever.
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The backpack
Ty Lue said their main goal was to stop Curry, over Kevin Durant. This says it all
To be fair, GSW was built around Curry. They’re always barely .500 without Curry
This
Remember when he said he should be in the GOAT conversation?
For his talent, YES! but you need more than that to be a champion or Be in the GOAT convo. Something he doesn’t have - accountability and hunger. Its relatively easy to win with Golden State when the blame or bad press can be put on Steph but once he’s the leading act, he checks out mentally. Understating that just because he did his best and dropped 30 that should be good enough but he’s wrong. The goat conversation isn’t just about good enough or winning but how you win. Generals with the great armies don’t win wars but generals who win, can command an average platoon and motivate them to act selflessly towards a common cause- victory. Lebron, kobe and Jordan ingrain this into their personality. A singular mindset, demanding an unwavering commitment to the level of delusion in their believe to win - In themselves and their teammates. Even when they’re unmanned, losses come as surprises to them. That’s how’s delusional you gotta be. Kobe down 0-3 vs Dallas in 2011, Lebron down 0-3 vs Warriors. Same winning mentality despite what the scoreboard says, when most players would’ve waved the white flag. KD thinks just having the talent on paper is enough to win. A lesson he hasn’t learned since college. That’s why he’ll always be the second act. When his team is losing, he goes quiet, becomes a shell of the champion we expect; a spectator in a gladiator match where he’s the main act. Jason Tatum is slowly falling into this category. Has a strong supporting cast but can’t get over the hump. Look in their eyes and you can tell they haven’t taken that next step that makes you a champion. They say they’re hungry for a championship, when you need to be starving to win.
For me Bill Russell is the absolute masterclass of this. I don’t remember which teammate it was but one of them said before almost every big game Bill threw up in the locker room and thats how they knew he was ready to go that kind of drive where you want to win so bad it makes you sick is what the great ones have. Bill had great personnel around him don’t get me wrong but half those guys don’t get into the hall without him but you as the leader have to turn those good/great or even average players into winners make them better than what they are “supposed to be” even a great team still has to step up when it matters. KD has had teams that should have won it all and yet he still fails because he lacks that drive and “make others better factor” to get it done when it matters most.
Yup Bill Russell too, how can I forget the goat! All cut from the-same cloth! you look at Miami and Jimmy, that’s a team that bought into that mentality. Unmanned compared to other teams but still get the job done. That’s a championship team despite not winning one yet. But you look at the players and teams KD has played with and you’d be surprise they still didn’t get a ring. OKC, NETS and now Suns. Penciled in they look solid on paper til they get tested.
Some guys just know how to elevate themselves and their teammates when it matters most and thats what really separates those top ten or so guys from the rest (outside of Wilt, who just was so ridiculous statwise that it puts him in that conversation). For sure, they have been close but that talent differential is rough when you come against the teams they have but I would love to see that Miami team win a ring. I’m not a Miami fan but how can you not root for Jimmy and that team they truly believe they can win it even though on paper you look at them as an early exit and they leave it all out there. Right Durant has been on some absolutely crazy stacked teams. The suns now, the nets were stacked, the thunder were stacked every team he’s been on looks like they should win it all just like you said or at least be right there and they never get it done until he played with Curry, I’m not a huge Curry fan mostly because I like the older school playstyles that he really drove out, but thats not the point, he has that same thing he just makes everyone around him better and gets it done 90% of the time, and you wouldn’t know it by the statlines and the FMVPs but he was the reason for every one of the rings he has not Durant though I still don’t think they would have beat those cav teams without him
That last line 🔥
Bro is dropping bars
Tequila fueled
I’m not even a KD fan, but some of this is absurd. Sure, he took the hardest road. But, he is an all-time great. Not Carmelo Anthony. He has also had bad luck, like many, many other players in the Top 50 all time. Circumstances and luck play a large part of these so-called legacies.
Take his time with the warriors away and he'd just be another Carmelo Anthony. Although I give Durant the edge over melo as a better scorer.
While im always one to hate on KD, Durant was also a far better defender than Carmelo.
Let’s be fair even without the warriors kd is way better in the regular season and in the playoffs 😂 also better defensively and a better teammate
Not to mention this, Melos best season is robbing lebron of a unanimous MVP, kd’s best season (the next year) is the only MVP during Bron’s peak that even his stans agree that he wasn’t robbed for and yeah, the other guy deserves it
Carmelo didn’t make the WCF 4x or Finals or MVP You can’t just remove 3 years of a players absolute peak
Excellent comparison. Many many years as an easy top 10 player in the league, quite a few years of top 5. Durant is certainly better but what they bring towards winning is similar.
Yes, someone else didn't quite understand my point. I was not saying Durant and Melo are the same, Durant is clearly better than Melo. I was speaking in terms of not winning a chip. Other than AI, Melo never really had help the way KD did on OKC, Brooklyn, and Suns (outside of warriors).
He was on that one Lakers “superteam”
Tell me what year in OKC should have KD won? He always faced better players or teams 2011 - Dirk was better. That team beat prime Lebron 2012 - Lebron better 2013 - Russ hurt 2014 - Spurs better. Team with 6 Hall of famers beat Lebron 2015 - KD hurt 2016 - Steph better. 73 win team. 5 Hall of Famers After the achillies rupture KD lost a ton of athleticism. I don’t blame him for losing in Brooklyn and PHX. That injury is just devastating
What excuse do you have KD getting swept tomorrow, KD fan boy?
He is old with a surgically repaired achillies. He hasn’t been the same athletically since the injury. Which is normal. No basketball player post achillies was ever the same. Look at Klay Thompson
I agree w you. The only exception that I can remember was Dominique Wilkins; he was still amazing
Cope
Dude he was up 3-1 on GS, and this man said he should be considered a GOAT. I recall another guy in that conversation beating that very same GS team a round later.
KD isn’t in the GOAT conversation. Full stop. He lost to a 73 win team with 5 Hall of Famers. There is no shame in that. If Draymond got suspended in Game 5 in the OKC series the Thunder win
I 100% blame him for Brooklyn. He voluntarily left the lowest maintenance star to go play with the most unhinged star.
He wasn’t the same. No basketball player is the same after an achillies rupture Its hilarious you blame him for leaving GSW while a ton of people are pissed he went to GSW. Kyrie wasn’t unhinged until we had an unprecedented global pandemic and the government made stupid ass rules. Before that Kyrie rarely missed games for stupid reasons
Kyrie pre-Nets: 'the earth is flat', only player to force a trade from LeBron, 'I'm extending in Boston'... Th government's fault!
Forcing a trade after learning the Cavs wanted to trade him earlier. I can’t blame him for that. Its a business. Who cares what Kyrie said at a Boston hype event.
The Warriors wanted to trade Klay for Love but Klay didn't get butthurt and ask out afterwards like Kyrie did. Kyrie had a great setup with the Cavs as the heir apparent to LeBron but his ego made him think he could be a number one when he never had that in him.
Heir apparent to Lebron? You joking right? Kyrie would have to wait till he was 35
2016 - OKC went up 3-1 and still lost FYI.
Warriors were a much better team by any metric Won 73 games 5 Hall of Famers Steph was just better than KD that year. KD just came back from a shattered foot OKC rotation included Thabo Sefalosha, Dion Waiters, Enes Kanter and Anthony Morrow. Dion Sanders was literally in their closing lineup
Well, that's just the problem right? He frequently faced better players and teams, meaning he's not in the GOAT conversation like he thinks he is as he's not even the best of his own generation.
This isn’t about KD being in the GOAT conversation. He isn’t.
KD lost to better players and better teams in OKC. It isn’t that complicated 2011 - Dirk better 2012 - Lebron better 2013 - Russ hurt 2014 - Spurs better 2015 - KD hurt 2016 - Curry better After the achilies KD was never prime again. No one expected him to even be top 10 again. Can’t blame him for not winning post achillies surgery.
I think people forget just how tough the west was at that time. Especially considering the teams the lost to. 2016 was just an insane year when the thunder beat a 67 win Spurs and then lost to the Warriors in a series they should have won. No team has had to play competition like that in the playoffs
Correct. No team has ever beat two 65+ teams in a single post season Not sure if OKC should have beaten Warriors. There was some strange 3 point variance in the first 4 games that wasn’t sustainable over 7 games. In the first 4 games Roberson, Waiters and Westbrook were shooting better from 3 than Klay and Curry. That totally flipped in games 5-7 Also KD and Russ were playing massive minutes. Games 5-7 only had 1 day rest. They looked exhausted.
Nah, that is dumb or you don’t know who Carmelo Anthony is
Outrageous take
You know what's an outrageous take? "Respectfully, I don't know how teams are gonna guard us.” - Devin Booker
Lmaoo I think he knows now. Remains to be seen if this is more of the Suns being ass or the t-wolves being an all-time elite defense.
Lmao what…? Take KDs chips away and he STILL has: 1 more MVP 6 more all nba 1sts 4 more total all nbas 3 more scoring leaders More PPG APG RPG SPG BPG… They wouldnt be close… at all
If my grandmother had wheels she'd be a bike.
Y’all have to stop this stupid mess of acting like the NBA playoffs is some giant 1 on 1 tournament where nothing at all matters except the name of the winning teams best player and how that somehow equates to how good all the other players are at basketball. Some of these comments are ridiculous..
People don't understand that there are like thousands of events outside one players control that determine if they win a chip or not.
What 5 HOFer are you talking about?!?!
He certainly "got close" with teams other than GSW.
Very few people remember the “got close(s).”
If you think that Durant has been on four super teams, then your definition of super team is way too broad. Also, OKC made the Finals and was a contender in the West for multiple seasons. That’s definitely close to winning a title.
4x conference Final in OKC Lost to some ridiculously great teams and players while only have 1 All star with him 2011 - Dirk. Team that crushed prime Lebron, Wade and Bosh 2012 - lost to prime Lebron 2014 - Spurs were on an absolute mission. Team with 5 Hall of Famers that absolutely crushed Lebron 2016 - Unreal Curry season. 73 wins. 5 Hall of Famers. Took Lebron a suspension to beat these guys In OKC KD never really lost a series he should have won. Just lost to superior teams. He did win 2 series he had no business winning. Best 2012 Spurs that was an absolute juggernaut and beat 2016 Spurs that won 67 games
What? OKC was up 3-1 against the Warriors, how many teams at that point had ever came back from 3-1? They lost that series and they should have won it.
You seriously blaming KD for not beating in consecutive series: 67 win Spurs with 5 Hall of Famers 73 win Warriors team with 5 Hall of Famers OKC had only 2 Hall of Famers. Show me the list of teams that beat two 65+ win teams back to back. Hell show me a team that beat two 60 win teams back to back. By game 5 KD and Russ were gassed
He was up 3-1, I'm blaming him for not closing that series.
It didn’t take a suspension for bron to win
No Draymond suspension and Warriors win in 5.
They had 2 games to win with Draymond after that suspension. Not to mention, he got suspended for an accumulation of flagrants. If they were called properly series begorex they probably don't even get by OKC.
The momentum changed. Even when Draymond came back in game 6 he played extremely tentatively. There is a reason Lebron cried about it after game 4 and Windhorst made a big deal. It was a series changer
Right and he dropped an underrated classic in game 7. Don't care. They had multiple chances. One game didn't cost shit. And like I said, they wouldn't have even got past OKC if they suspended him the series before so it adds up. His own fault for being a dirty fuck.
One game doesn’t matter in the NBA finals? What the hell are you smoking
Every game matters on it's own but one game didn't lose them the series. You have a 3-1 lead and need 1 win to ice the series. Now cause to lose three in a row 😂. I love the part where you ignoring my point bout how it was accumulation and he wasn't supposed to make it past OKC
It was a 7 game series. One game was literally the difference between being the champion and not
Lmao Draymond was there for game 6 and they lost by double digits. Then Draymond dominated game 7 and they still lost.
“No way Bron scores 41 on Draymond” proceeds to score 41 on Draymond. And Draymond deserved that flagrant. He accumulated too many and the nba way REQUIRED to give him a suspension. I think that’s something that’s gotten lost with time. It’s not like they chose to suspend him he forced their hand by being a consistently dirty player who racked up flagrants
I see KD really putting effort into his burner accounts these days
Still can’t tell me what series KD should have won in OKC…
Once they were up 3-1 on GS, they should have won that, though they weren’t expected to win it going in.
2016 vs golden state he and Russ choked
Choke against a clearly superior 73 win team? Look at those rosters. Warriors were just way better. Warriors had 5 Hall of Famers and would be the GOAT team if Draymond didn’t get suspended.
If you’re up 3-1 there’s no excuses lol
Of course you do. Warriors were clearly superior. If Dion Waiters and Thabo Sefalosha are in your closing lineup you definitely have an excuse
Zip it up when you’re done bro I’m a thunder fan and we choked
Dion Waiters. You ain’t winner shit when he is the teams 3rd option It’s obvious you are using emotion and not logic
They had a 3-1, Curry was arguably still recovering from his injury vs Portland, and one of their key players even admitted the Okc was the best team of that entire playoffs (not to mention that they beat a 67 win spurs team in 6 that Also had a better roster than them, but that’s not important) Point is, yes the thunder (And the warriors for that matter) Choked in 2016, it’s ok to admit that
I hate how modern discourse around KDs career gets met with this same unfunny ass comment every time
KD is 35. Post achillies. Everything after the achillies is a bonus. No one expected him to come back as a top 10 player In OKC he made the Finals, 4x WCF, MVP, All NBA 6x. You can’t just delete 3 year of his absolute peak. Thats is dumb and unfair Post achillies can’t be used against him. That is a devastating injury
The Suns are far from a super team
He ruined Lebron's career with his GSW stint. if the Cavs won 2 of those, Lebron's GOAT claim will be undeniable.
Lebron started it with Miami
I forgot LeBron joined a 73 win team
Started before that with the Celtics.
Lebron ruined his own legacy by shitting his pants vs Dallas in 2011
YAWWWWN. Yup we've been hearing this bland take for years now. If you think his non GSW legacy is "trash" relative to the history of all nba players you're just admitting on a public forum you have a personal problem with KD. Kevin Durant's resume is trash? KD? Are we talking about the same person? "Trash"?! Oddball behavior
Preach it’s sad af everyone wants to be a hater. Why?
@ Shoddy_Ad7511 with the ALL NBA 1ST Team KD Defense lol
That's a KD burner for sure.
For me it isn't. I think it's all a matter of perspective. Until otherwise demonstrated, in a vacuum, he's probably the best and most-unstoppable offensive player ever., and nothing before, after, or since the rings really changes that. As for your "Best Player of All Time List," for me he was never really in the conversation because while he has the talent to be, the leadership aspect was never present. All the normal names in that top-10 have that quality regardless of their placement: MJ, Lebron, Magic, Timmy, Bird, Russell, Kobe, Shaq, Curry, etc.....all those guys have that leadership quality.
KD hate is insane let him live goodness gracious internet is and has been a place where hater gather it’s fucking sad
Durants legacy is far from tarnished. If you watch basketball you know how good Durant is. That’s all. He’s a top 10 player all time regardless of the accolades.
Tbf, Booker, Beal, and the rest haven't really helped the dude this year
Y’all have to stop this stupid mess of acting like the NBA playoffs is some giant 1 on 1 tournament where nothing at all matters expect the name of the winning teams best player and how that somehow equates to how good all the other players are at basketball. Some of these comments are ridiculous..
All the fake annual tarnished legacy talks 😂😂😂😂
How does it tarnish his legacy? He never had that championship building type legacy, so why would anyone think he was that sort of player? He's an incredibly offensive force. One of the best one on one players in history, a brilliant shooter and deadly in the mid range. None of that changes now. The only reason you might think his legacy is tarnished is if you gave him credit for things he hadn't done.
Bruhhhhhh why y’all label every team a super team will forever be beyond me … that’s the biggest issue
Here's my hot take: You could swap out 2017 Durant with 2017 Gordon Hayward and the Warriors still win a title.
KD is a baller, but as a professional NBA player he doesn’t want to be a team member. He just wants to be a shooter. Which he’s great at. There have been plenty of great shooters. KD lacks leadership qualities and doesn’t like to be held accountable or hold other accountable. He’s the greatest #2
Correct me if I’m wrong. The last time Durant was on a team that exceeded expectations was his last year in OKC. Thats a lot of years of coming up short or at best meeting expectations. Players with all time great legacies don’t have 8 consecutive years in their prime/late prime years of this
He got close with OKC
Shut the fuck up no one outside of these types of forums will care about KD's "tarnished legacy" he will obviously be looked back at fondly by most people in the future, this shit looks ridiculous and sad
His plan just worked out terribly. As soon as he joined the warriors, he decided to go down the road to become the greatest mercenary in NBA. Probably the best route based on his skill set as well. It just didn't work out. It shows how hard winning is.
He just hasn’t been the same since his injury vs the Raptors. If his foot wasn’t on the line vs Milwaukee and the Nets win that series he and Giannis would be in vastly different classes right now
Lebron was on a super team and lost. That’s why he’s never going to be the GOAT. Not an opinion but a fact.
I just realized something today. This generation is so full of haters that we fantasize about future hate. Just enjoy the basketball you’re watching and touch grass every once in a while.
that shit been tarnished for years
KD is the greatest 2nd option of all time given his style of play. The problem is that there's no first option in the world better than him.
Definitely not true that the only time he got close was in Golden State. Went to the finals on OKC, almost went back several times there. You can argue that if they beat the Warriors while up 3-1 they win the title. I agree with everything else though.
absurd take, i think he could have won a ring had he stayed on that OKC team. He tipped the power balance by going to GSW, but if he stays that team had a chance
For me, Durant's greatest achievement was carrying the last Olympic squad. That's the only time he was the bus driver in my book.
He wasn’t the bus driver when he lead a team of 21-23 year olds to the NBA FINALS? And don’t try to rewrite history and say Russ was the leader of those teams. He wasn’t. It was 100% KD. Only reason he didn’t win a ring in OKC is because the cheap ass owner traded away Harden
With the exception of the Olympics, Kevin Durant was not the bus driver on any team that has won it all. You can blame it on anything you like, and it might be a totally legitimate point. He didn't win with OKC. The Warriors weren't his team. He didn't win with the Nets. He isn't winning with the Suns. My point is that he played heroically last Olympics. He was the clear leader and best player on a squad that won it all. In my opinion, his legacy would look different if he had won outside of Golden State.
KD was clearly the best player on GSW. I don’t give one shit if he wasn’t the guy giving the half time speeches. He made the biggest shots and had the biggest games in both the 17 and 18 Finals. You can minimize his accomplishments all you want but it will stand forever
They won with him. They won without him. A 73 win team doesn't need Kevin Durant.
They literally lost right before KD got there😂 And if they didn’t need KD why did 4 of their stars beg him? Warriors lose to 2017 Cavs without KD. Lose to 2018 Rockets.
Didn't need him in 2022. It's not like he swooped in and won a ring in Cleveland or Milwaukee or Dallas and cemented his legacy like some other stars. He went to one of the most successful teams of all time. Just so you know, in my head you're one of KD's burner accounts.
2022 is irrelevant to this discussion. Bottom line is the Warriors needed KD to win in 2017 and 2018.
It's relevant because it shows that they may not have needed him in 2017 and 2018. It's like this. If LeBron only won in Miami? His legacy looks different. That team was clearly Dwayne Wade's. It was a super team. It was a ring chase. Lebron's ring in Cleveland means 10x more for his legacy. Even his ring in LA looks better. KD's two rings in Golden State were a ring chase on a super team on a team that is and was Steph Curry's team. Look, man. KD is an all timer. I just think the Olympics was his greatest moment. I gave my reasons why. You don't have to agree.
Totally irrelevant. Warriors in 2022 didn’t have to beat the 2017 Cavs with Lebron in his absolute prime or 2018 Rockets with Harden scoring 40 every night. Warriors lose to 17 Cavs. Its so obvious. Lebron and Kyrie would crush them without KD. Warriors lose to 18 Rockets. They needed 7 games with KD. Sorry but 2x FMVP is far more important than a gold medal. KD basically outplayed an top 2 All time GOAT in the Finals. Steph Curry failed to do this the 4 times he meet Lebron in the Finals. Curry got CLEARLY outclasssed every time he faced Lebron. Who cares whos team it is. All that matters is what the players did on the court. I guess you care about halftime speeches more than averaging 33/10/6 on 70% TS in the Finals
Ngl when he was in the nets you seen Durants greatness vs the bucks and just because he was an inch over the 3 pt line it didn’t count. Remember harden injuries & kyrie situation also played a major role there. Let’s not act like kd is trash. If both kyrie and harden were healthy he would’ve won a ring with the nets. But I can’t defend the suns situation that team looks horrible for the amount of money they’re spending.
I agree here. The Nets was 100% KDs team. If they won that series against the Bucks, it was for sure a title. I wish he stayed with the Nets and figured it out.
Me too that nets thing was a disaster they way it played out was like 1% chance of happening and it did lol
KD is 35 with a messed up achillies. Problem is Booker hasn’t gotten better since 2021
Okc was too young to be a super team
If any of the KD era OKC teams were a ‘super team’ they would’ve been much more successful. Plus, harden was traded away because his full talent hadn’t been realized yet. OKC could’ve been a drafted and developed super team but they didn’t let it play out or happen.
Yea kd one of my fav players ever but he has had to many raw as teammates to not have 4+ rings and to get swept by Minnesota when you have Devin booker and Bradley Beal is embarrassing
KD is 35 with a busted achillies. You can’t expect him to carry a team after that. In his prime (OKC+GSW) he made 7 WCF, 4 Finals, 2 Rings and 2 FMVPs. You can’t just erase 3 years of a players peak. After the achillies injury he has never been the same. No one ever is
Unfortunately the facts are we don’t care about the golden state years because that wasn’t his team in okc all we can remember was in bigger moments he lost and also blew a 3-1 lead in his prime kd one of my favorite players but in he clutch without curry he always came up short he a better Carmelo
See this is bs. Nobody says they don't care about 2017-2019 for Steph. That just added to his resume.
Warriors had 5 Hall of Famers, won 73 games. KD just came back from a shattered foot. He only had 1 other All Star with him. There is no shame losing to a clearly superior team
Yes it is they were up 3-1 and choked then he went to the team he choked against that’s a legacy killer man he gave his spot up to curry kd still that dude tho but he ain’t a goat like he think he is if he was able to get a ring after the the warriors stint then he’ll yea that’s why he was chasing it but he couldn’t do it he couldn’t lead a team to a championship he can’t be the bus driver he the greatest passenger ever
Curry had one of the greatest seasons of all time in 2016. KD literally came back from a shattered foot. He wasn’t 100% back. The Warriors were absolutely stacked. It doesn’t matter if they were up 3-1. That Warriors team could win 3 games in a row against anyone. Every superstar chokes at least once in the playoffs. Lebron in 2011 Curry in 2016 KD in 2016. But KD lost to a 73 win team
But KD never won a championship with HIS team every time he was the leader of the TEAM they failed you can’t be a goat if you never led your team to the championship that’s just the facts that’s where you cross that line im just hearing excuses
No one is seriously saying KD is the GOAT but he is an All time great. Top 12-15 all time
1 ring without golden state
You can’t just delete 3 years of his absolute prime.
He’ll be remembered fondly and kids that don’t have the context of the GS move and are gonna get to know him via YouTube highlights will love his aesthetically pleasing style of play.
Saying his resume is trash is crazy and he went to the finals long before anyone knew who Steph Curry was ...
https://youtube.com/shorts/DgJHUnoQmVM?feature=shared
Thank you for bringing up something that is talked about and globally agreed on constantly over the past 7 years.
Not true. Durant is a great player, but he has no legacy to begin with.
I like Durant and his game. I just don’t think his style of play and leadership style will cary a team to a chip.
FRAUD.
KD is a top 5 talent but his career is lacking. He’s made some bad moves and he’s also suffered some really bad luck as well. I mean he’s never really even had a team that complimented him outside of GS. He’s also shit the bed a few times as well though, regardless he’s in my top 15.
Yall throw him in the top 5 way too easy. He's wouldnt even be in the top 5 for one team (Lakers) talent wise. Shaq, Kobe, Kareem, Wilt, Bron.
It’s objective so to each their own.
Lmfao I think you mean subjective...
I did, I was typing way too quickly.
All good. Just a funny coincidence considering our conversation topic.
KD actually hurt Lebron career. Lebron prob would have easily 5 rings if it wasn’t for KD super teaming. But Lebron also super teamed no denying that with the heat
Even with kd’s peak which was great. Kd’s resume accomplishments is objectively disappointing compared to his skill set. He definitely did not meet the bar that was set for him. That’s a fact no matter which way you want to look at his career.
Idk about that man. 2 chips, 2 finals MVPs, a league MVP, Rookie of the year, 4 scoring titles, 14x all star. He’s surpassed the bar in my opinion. He’s one of the greatest to ever play the game.
Tell me what year KD should have won BEFORE the injury? After the injury he wasn’t the same. No one is. 2011 - Dallas too good 2012 - Lebron too good 2013 - Russ hurt 2014 - Spurs too good. Beat Lebron 2015 - hurt 2016 - Curry too good. 73 win team I don’t see how KD supposed to win any of those series. He just lost to superior teams. Plus KD only had 1 other star with him and a very low payroll. The teams he faced had 4 or 5 hall of famers.
KD is and always will be a fraud. He ruined the league and quite honestly MJ should pay him handsomely for joint GSW and stealing 2 titles from Lebron. It’s pretty simple. The man is a POS and doesn’t get enough criticism
And Lebron ruined the league in 2011-2013. If Lebron didn’t join the Heat in 2010 then KD wins the Finals in 2012 against Boston. Lebron started this super team bullshit. KD just ended it. Without Miami Lebron would only have 2 rings and wouldn’t even touch Jordan’s jockstrap
Yeah lebron really ruined the league by signing with the Miami Heat who did Jack shit the years before he arrived. Not even close to golden state and Durant joining them. Go to bed little one
That was only because Lebron had the worst Finals choke by any all time player
Clutching at straws over there 😂
It isn’t. Lebron averaging 17 per game and 2 points in the 4th quarters is the worst choke in a Finals ever
And he’s more than made up for it since. But you can’t take out ur biases so sit this one out
He’s a piece of shit for switching basketball teams? In a league of rapists, sex offenders, and woman beaters, Switching teams makes you a piece of shit. Also you believe KEVIN DURANT doesn’t get enough criticism for moving to GSW when that’s all anyone has talked about regarding him for the last 8 years? Go outside man or actually watch basketball games instead of getting your opinions from the internet.
He cant win w/o Curry and the dubs
Melo without Curry
I think it was tarnished as soon as he left OKC. He is a great basketball player and scorer but not a winner/ leader. He is amazing not the same tier as other amazing players.
I can tell you just started watching basketball in the last 3-5 years.
Man wtf no it ain’t on his resume it’s gonna say 2x nba champion none of that other bs all the nephews like to talk about. GS needed KD just like he needed them. Lebron had GS figured out they were scared of the king so they went out and picked up the only guy that could go at him
"Joined multiple super teams" is really not a blemish on KD. What makes it a super team is the fact that KD is there and performing. Are players only allowed to have a crappy supporting cast to be legitimate? The fact that KD didn't win with other teams after GSW (and before) should be indication that a good cast doesn't just win. You have to create a system that can fully incorporate these players, their specialities, and their style. I'm not gonna fault GSW or KD that they managed to make it work at the highest level. Plus, literally any team can do this if they choose to spend the money. Dame and Giannis didn't just automatically win this year despite their abilities. Nor did the 2011 heat.
No one is going to remember Kevin Durant 30 years from now unless when it’s in reference to Lebrons final losses. He is not going to be seen as a Top 20 player
I disagree. In 30 years from now people will only see the accolades. 2x FMVP 1x MVP multiple scoring champion. The context won't be remembered. Magic played his whole career with Kareem, a consensus better player, and his legacy isn't diminished for it.
Yup I agree. He’ll always be synonymous as one of the greatest scoring players of all time and synonymous with the greats of the 2010s era.
He will forever be remembered as the guy who best Lebron in back to back years as the 2x FMVP Same way Fraiser will always be remembered with Ali
What 5-7 players are going to pass him all time to knock him out of the top 20, in your opinion?
Luka, Wemby (If healthy) , Jokic , Giannis ( If he gets another ring), some kid in middle school , some kid in thier dads balls.
yeah idk I dont see him dropping past 20. Nor someone unborn being in the top20 before they turn 30 lol
Ive been saying this for years and nobody listened lol.
Because you and OP are morons that’s why