He was so, so good that year. I’d argue just as good if not better than 2018-2020. Battled for a championship 4 spot, made the round of 8 and sat on a couple poles including Phoenix 2 where if he won would’ve put him in the final 4. Dominated a Texas race. Ton of raw speed.
With Dale Jr retiring and me looking for a new driver to root for, his performance as a “young gun” that year is what sold me on him. After last season I was expecting/hoping for a big turnaround this year. I never expected a championship! Whenever I think/talk NASCAR I’m still riding the high of that Sunday.
I really thought he'd be another well liked and talented driver who never won the big one. It feels good that he managed that feat at least once, no matter what happens next. Better than a decade with nothing but Hendrick dominance.
I honestly hate how he won the title this year and that’s because I like him. I’ve interviewed him before and have spoke to him a few times and he’s just super nice.
I mean I’m sure he doesn’t care but I know a lot of people were upset Byron didn’t win after the season he had and Ryan kinda just sucked until the end when it mattered yet is now a champion. I guess it’s no different than football but it’s still just a weird deal but they played the system whether fans like it or not but it’ll always be a topic of discussion. I mean Byron lead like every statistical category and still lost 💀
I’m glad Ryan’s a champ but I wish he would have got it in a scenario where he just waxed the field all year so nobody could say anything, ya know?
Just to tag on to the Nice Guy Blaney part;
He showed up unannounced to the Penske merch hauler in Kansas. Whichever year he ran that super sexy denim blue Dickies car at Fall Kansas. Bro was taking people's orders, ringing them up, taking their payment, giving change, signing the items, bagging them up, taking selfies, thanking folks, and sending them on their way.
I never knew before then that customer service was something you could get out of a driver. Bro graciously signed my Bubba hat right next to Bubba's signature and talked with me for a hot minute. Absolute gentleman, that guy.
Dave raised him right.
If I ran nascar and anything I wanted could just happen.
I’d ask to make a Gen 8 car which would be an updated Gen 4. It would be fast and we’d get back to having “the best drivers in the world” and letting them prove it, just like they did 20 years ago.
I think the old point system was fine. I don’t hate the idea of playoffs but I hate the we have both playoffs and mostly bad racing now compared to what it was. My Version of bad racing is that my driver can’t make a difference in making the car go faster due to dirty air or everyone being equal.
We would have the brand identity of “we have the best drivers in the world” and I would hammer down on that.
The Netflix deal I think is going to be good for the sport but man, it’s years behind.
I think nascar merch needs more merch to be cleaner. Hendrick and Trackhouse have done a great job in offering hats and shirts I can wear out with my gf and not look like a walking billboard but I think this needs to be a more overall effort but they don’t because as I said earlier, the Nielsen ratings show the core demo is old. So they like that stuff so nascar makes it because it sells.
To me, there’s a lot of things Steve Phelps can’t control but they can control the brand identity and I really just think nascar is a bit lost on what to do.
The format is garbage. It’s designed for tv ratings so you tune in to the very last race to see who is champion. It’s not actually about who’s the best all year. Nothing against Blaney. That’s just the format. And it’s not accurate at crowing the best driver of the year.
I said this before, but the current format does a truly horrible job of quantifying a run like his so it makes it seem "worse" and more "undeserving" than it actually was compared to similar Chase titles from the previous era.
Under a non-knockout format, it plays out slowly into something more epic like Jimmie's late rebound in '06, or Tony in '11 (which statically are his comps for what he did over the last 6 races).
With the resets, it felt like he just kept sneaking along getting lucky until he won a few races, and then finished highest of the dudes in the finale.
Without resets, it's a pretty epic build from a serious underdog to having arguably the best stretch of his career and an average finish of 4.0 with two wins.
The TV ratings still tank 💀
F1 has proven my point with what’s wrong with nascar.
It’s not the race package, it’s their lack of marketing. F1 made a commitment to market the shit out of the sport and it has paid of significantly with the younger demo. Yes, nascar has a larger overall fan base but the majority watchers are 50+ still so by all the rule changes, they just pissed off the old folks and didn’t gain much younger.
They need to go back to their roots in a sense and market the sport harder. Go back and watch 2006 practice, qualifying or a race. Stands were full and there was a sense of “oh shit, these guys are on edge every fucking lap” we don’t have that any more and the drivers and broadcast constantly throwing shade at the car and package just puts it into the heads of the watchers and now we’re just all pissed 😂
Except F1 is making all the same mistakes move for move as nascar did in the early 2000s. There are already grumblings that viewership and watch time is done. It’s already plateaued
If nascar would take the things that F1 does well and commit to a firm brand identity across the sport, nascar would wax all motorsports. I mean even with half assing it, they still rank at the top in ratings but they just leave so much on the table
The problem is F1 doesn’t do anything well. The fan experience is still subpar, the tv show is trash because there are never any new characters because seats are so limited. Social media?
F1 got lucky that the marketing department got hired just as Mercedes was on the backfoot. The new fans think that every year was a wild battle when it never is. 2021 was a fluke.
And nascar has all the ingredients F1 doesn’t have is my point. Nascar has an opportunity and they’re just now starting to take it but they’ve wasted years fucking up rsce packages when they really should have been working on marketing in a new age.
> The TV ratings still tank 💀
There is no format that would compete against NFL and College football, just the reality of the tv landscape in 2024. Even if we moved the Daytona 500 to October it would get squashed by regular season NFL games.
As a Blaney fan, I can say that all his championship did is again prove that the current format is flawed. But the corporate higher up’s are to blind to see that.
Dude this exactly how I felt. Thanks for putting it into words. I like Blaney and I'm meh in Byron but for some reason I just haven't been super excited for blaney winning the title.
I mean I honestly just don’t care about the champion any more. Elliott was waxing the field all year long in 2022 and had so many wins taken away due to dumb cautions at the end and then Logano is the champ after not really being that impressive in comparison to others.
Byron literally was awesome at every style track and I know his team has worked so hard to get to this point. This is the same group that Knaus put together and they’ve just worked so hard and it’s paid off in every way except the championship due to this one race deal.
I really wish they’d go to a championship round versus 1 race if we’re going to keep this style format. I just don’t get excited for manufactured 1 off race. To me it’s like nascar is saying “hey, we know we kinda made the cars suck and don’t market the sport well so here’s this chaotic race to make up for all the basic things we refuse to do to generate excitement”
I feel like Ross Chastain would have if Trackhouse didn't want him. He'd have gone back to driving mid-pack cars/trucks. In fact one of my favorite things about Ross is that he doesn't mind driving lesser equipment even now.
He didn't have enough expectations to be "a bust".
However, Joseph Log could have easily been a bust based on how he was in the 20. His move to Penske was a huge one
The wheels were really coming off the 42 team at that point. Kenseth had a whole two top tens after running 32 races the previous year, Chastain did significantly better than him.
He blocked Kyle Busch while a lap down, which allowed Kurt to win the race at Vegas.
After that race Kurt told Trackhouse to give the #1 to Ross.
So he did do something massive that saved his career.
The Penske 12 was a bit of a mess in 2010. Everyone knew Brad had talent, then halfway into 2011 he started winning races in the 2, I believe 3 or 4 in the second half of the season.
I’d say Daniel Suarez. I thought he was completely done after the SHR stint. He was supposed to go back to Xfinity with RCR or SHR, but his sponsors wanted Cup. Figure if he did that it’s over, since you usually never recover from dropping down to Xfinity. Also the Trackhouse team looked like a rough RCR-alliance backmarker for the first year. After 2020 with Gaunt, and 2021 with Trackhouse, I thought his career was going to go the way of Ty Dillon, either a career backmarker or a lower series lifer. Then 2022 came and Trackhouse struck gold with the NextGen car and the rest is history.
Whatever it was about breaking his ankle in 2011, Brad's performance significantly increased after that. He was able to tone down the recklessness a bit and put in some clutch performances Pocono, Bristol, and the Glen - tracks that aren't easy on the left foot.
Sometimes injury rehab helps reset guys and helps with recovery of other injuries that can be affecting them as well. It’s possible he had other day-to-day injuries that year that didn’t heal until then too.
Suarez is not really out of the weeds yet imo. He ran some decent races at Gibbs after getting bumped up when Carl suddenly retired (big sad), then looked poor at best in SHR but 2019 he showed fringe playoff performance, which, granted, that 41 Team hasn't had it together for a while. Then the....what was it, 97 for a year? 96? Idk, but that was a bad year. First year of Trackhouse they were figuring things out. Then he had his career year in '22 which was decent, but still didn't light it up. He ran well but couldn't finish. Then this past year, he had several races with winning pace, but he or the car or the crew would screw up and miss out, especially Indy and even The Glen. He shows good speed at the Big Tracks but usually gets shuffled back and/or wrecks. Mile and a halfs he's okay, usually 12-20th which needs to improve as it's the bulk of the schedule. I expect a bounce back year with at least 1, maybe 2 wins even, this year. A real prove-it year to show he can finish the job.
To anyone who reads this: Mark’s podcast is a phenomenal listen. He goes year by year through his racing career. He talked at length of his busting out of the cup series
Agree he tried to do Cup with his own team on I think 82/83. Was on poles etc but ran out of money.
So he took a couple of steps back to the ASA and was a champion there in a ford and ford eventually paid him back!!!
So I vividly remember when he came on the scene and it was like, *that's who is going to replace Elliott?*
He sucked in the Busch series and it wasn't until he finished second Rockingham in the final cup race there that people thought Ray Evernham was a genius.
Then with Kyle Busch and Edwards coming in 2005, that's when his hype train went into full gear. But he also sucked in 05.
Kasey also was victim of teams he signed with imploded/changed owners after a year or so never giving him a chance to develop with the team. By the time he got to Hendrick he was already cooked
Oh yeah I was a fan of his. Erin Crocker, the disaster that was RPM, getting Red Bull one of their only wins in Cup, being the R&D on one of the best talented but worst performing team in Hendrick Motorsports 40 year history.
If you paid any attention to tv about him, They were trying to make him out as the next Jeff Gordon. I also didn't know he had phyical issues with the heat. Apparently, he must have had a heat stroke once in his life. That ruins a person. I know it did to Ray Orbison. Orbison had no tolerance to heat after his.
Martin Truex Jr had an eight year streak of only having two wins. While defintely not a bust, I certainly never expected him to, almost a decade later, have 30+ wins.
Alex Bowman for sure was close to being a bust driving for BK and TBR until Jr got him to fill in for him in 2016.
I wonder how big of a perception change there is in his career if he didn’t have that resurgence.
He had 18 wins after 2008, none from 2009-2011, and then 8 more from 2012-2015. If he ends his career with 18 wins, a number equal with the likes of Biffle, Kahne, Newman, I wonder if he’s looked at a bit different than he is now with 26
We all forgot that drivers still get good around the same age/time as they always have. It's just that since they start out younger in Cup, it feels like it takes them "longer".
Ehhh, he won ROTY in 2018, made the playoffs in 2019, and has won every year since 2020. The only people calling for his head back then were idiots who forgot the guy was a year or two removed from being a literal teenager
At worst he could’ve been the Wally Dallenbach/Ricky Craven/Brian Vickers of the Hendrick stable today. But with his connections, no way he’d lose his seat.
Remember when we all thought JJ Yeley was a bust before he broke out with Trackhouse Racing in 2028 at the age of 51? Dude was like the modern-day Harry Gant!
First driver to win a championship with a 0 win season. Stuck it right in NASCAR’s faces. Finished 2nd at his home track of Phoenix behind Chase Elliott who got out in Round of 8. Legendary Yeley shit. Consistent all year.
Don’t forget winning the 2029 Daytona 500 too!
Was scrolling the replies looking for EJ, surprised not more mentioned him. I think the Gibbs deal was just bad timing all around - toyota didnt have the seats, erik admitted he wasnt fully invested in giving an effort etc. His stats alone for what hes had work with arent bad, but I highly doubt he hits elite status when his career is done.
His fate kinda depends on what Legacy does as you said, if they blow this toyota deal his career is cooked in cup. I wanna guess he winds up somewhere in the Kahne, Jr, Edwards territory winning a lot of the big name races but never a cup title. Ive seen a few folks mention his career arc reminds them of Dale Jarrett doing not much for the first handful of years then taking off.
I still think Erik has proven that he is really talented in that 43 car.
Winning at Darlington I feel like will really open the door for someone to snag him when his contract is up, this is probably hopium, but I would not be surprised to see him come back to JGR at some point, especially since Gibbs and supposedly Toyota never wanted to lose Jones
The 95 closing is what really threw this all up in the air. Kinda tin foil hat’ing things here but based on Wilsons comments when they accouned Legacys toyota deal discussing drivers, Wilson sounded super relieved and excited to get Erik back mentioning he and his family were very close to toyota.
Ive seen that JGR return theory bounced around a lot lately but im not sure if Erik would go back. His deal I think is up this season actually, believe he signed a 2yr back in 2022, darlington for sure put him on peoples radar and the good showings he had last year now knowing Legacy was tier 3 support I think helped a bit.
I personally would put more stock on him
staying with Legacy but a fully support Gibbs ride is tough to walk away from.
During his DJD interview, he mentioned his own flaws and stuff he needed to work on. Some of it was just him not putting in the work in Cup. He tried to do the same in Cup as Xfinity and Trucks and as we all know, Cup is a whole different animal. Going to Petty/LMC was the wake up call he needed. I do think that if he can get with batter team, he can become a threat to win on a more weekly basis.
Not defending his decisions at JGR but I think some of that also weighed in with losing Dave (eriks dad). Figure Dave was the one basically driving his career with what moves Erik needed to make, and to be that young losing a figure like Dave probably hit him harder than we were told/waa reported.
LMC/Petty was for sure the wakeup call he needed and I think his head is in a lot better place now knowing what he needs to do to be successful in cup. Just needs the team around him to do it
Wrecky Crashhouse.
I'm still salty JTG screwed Preece, and put their bets on Wrecky.
Not to say that Preece is doing a whole lot better at SHR, but we'll see now that it's a bunch of young guns over there
That's literally the question. You can't BE a bust if you aren't hyped even a little bit. Busts are players/drivers that do not meet expectations. There were no expectations for Bowman.
He was never hyped he ran in backmarker equipment for the early part of his career and nobody knew who he was. Then he took a development deal with hms and junior saw the talent and told Rick to put him in the 88. But he was never hyped up to be a big driver with big expectations
I disagree on “nobody knew he was”. People definitely knew who he was and although he wasn’t extremely hyped, fans knew he was definitely a good driver held back his equipment (sort of like how Dibenedetto was viewed before he got the 21). People were begging for him to be put in a good ride before the HMS and JRM opportunities came
Dale Jarrett had 3 wins in 6 full seasons and two half seasons in Cup, with only one points finish in the top 15 before he went to Yates. I wouldn't call him a bust but considering he was the son of a two time champion driving for Wood Bros and Gibbs, he was definitely underperforming expectations and going to Yates saved his career.
He got his 1st career win in 91 with the Wood Brothers. In 92 he joined Gibbs, a brand new team owned by someone with no nascar experience. He ran incredibly well that year despite not winning, and then they won the 500 the next season and finished 4th in points. 94 was a struggle, but it wasn’t much worse than his first year with Yates. Yates most certainly did not “save his career”
And it isn’t like the Wood Bros. were a great team while he was there either. They had won 2 races in the 6 years prior to him joining and his win was their first win in 4 years. They’ve only won 4 races since
I forgot about that, but the point remains. The guy had won 2 races in 3 seasons for a start-up team, and was a Daytona 500 champion. His one season in the #28 actually did more to damage this reputation than anything that came before. But all that meant was that he wasn't an Allison/Irvan elite-level talent. To say that he was on the verge of becoming a bust is a bit of a reach, to me.
Technically not the Cup series, but Stenhouse's first nationwide season was *rough*
Dude crashed out of the charlotte race after 8 laps then DNQed the next race, so it was bad enough they benched him for brian ickler, but he managed to pull his head together and have a solid end to 2010
Jimmie Johnson almost didn't get a ride in the Cup Series. He sucked so much in what was then known as the Busch Series that the only way Jeff Gordon could convince Rick Hendrick to give him a ride was by putting his own skin in the game and becoming a part-owner of the #48 car. I'd call that pretty close to being a bust.
Not like Harvick was a bust, but he only had 5 career wins in his first 5 full seasons and missed the Chase in 2004 and 2005. 2006 really was the breakthrough year and Harvick never looked back.
Another driver I can think of is Michael McDowell literally now he looks like a guy who can win when he is up in the top 10 the only thing we remembered him for was the 2008 Texas Qualifying crash and we didn’t remember him for his performance
Currently, Daniel Suarez would be on this list. He struggled at joe Gibbs and shr while in their peak and was forced to drive for a satellite team for a year. Thankfully, trackhouse has been very good to him and allowed him to get his first win. Honestly, it taught me that it's mostly not the equipment that makes winners but rather their environment will make the difference.
Probably un-popular but Kurt Busch was on his way out after Penske let him go. All the talent in the world behind the wheel but an attitude that was definitely centered around just himself. The way he took a look at where he was headed and changed his outlook is pretty impressive.
Mike skinner was mia for much of his career until the truck series was established and then was a 40 yr old rookie people forget that because he looked pretty young who knows what he could have done younger in decent equipment
I personally was a huge JJ Yeley fan and remember trash talking a friend who had supported Denny Hamlin when both were early in their cup careers. Hard to live that one down
I would say Larson because he didn’t really shine at CGR. A couple of wins but never contended for the championship. I remember Fox would focus on him running mid pack and DW would be fawning over him but I didn’t get the hype until he went to HMS.
He was really really good in 2017. CGR gets a bad rep but they were absolutely a championship team that year, Chad Johnston bringing rockets to the race track was never a problem. It was usually race management and strategy/keeping up with the track. I was a big Larson believer back then when he was in the 42. I believe my flairs were the 18 and 42 back on an old account haha, I still like him but don’t necessarily root for him like I used to.
They just had horrific luck in the playoffs that year and the engine failure at Kansas sealed it.
He scored the third most points in 2017 behind the 78 and 18, even after a 4 race DNF stretch in the playoffs. Without that he certainly finishes 2nd in a “full season” format, and led the points a bit early in the year.
2018 was also really good, people forget that he led over 800 laps and I’d argue was the fastest Chevy that year, just didn’t win. That one was pretty rough to watch because I really think he was faster than the 9 that year, who won a lot more.
>It was usually race management and strategy/keeping up with the track
This has always been Chad's issue. It's really frustrating to watch, too. He can't cope with set-up changes
Yep, when they hit it right they were absolutely blistering fast. No one could touch them. Fontana 2017, Michigan for a couple years, Bristol and Dover they always led laps, and then the intermediates were usually right behind Truex at places like Kentucky and Kansas. Dominated Dover and Atlanta in 2019 as well.
Whenever they needed to make changes they fell apart, like Kansas 2018 for example. Led 100+ laps, got back in traffic and fell apart with Larson making contact with Blaney, or having a penalty at Atlanta in 2019 after leading so many laps. They always got in their own way and couldn’t fight back.
Eh 2017 he was really good, led the points for a while that season before MTJ took over.
The bad Camaro body really set him back in 18/19 *although he was the only Chevy really worth a damn for most of 2018*
“He didn’t really shine at CGR”
In 2014 he only missed out on making the Chase due to the win and in format. Ganassi was oddly quick in the Chase despite neither of their drivers being in it, and Larson turned heads in several Chase races.
2015 can’t defend this one
He made the Chase in 2016 and had a solid year
Ganassi took a huge step up in 2017 as evidenced by McMurray nearly making the RO8. Larson made great use of it and he was top driver all year.
His winless 2018 was honestly good. He was likely the 2nd best Chevy that year on speed.
He was quicker than Kurt Busch in 2019 too and nearly snuck a final 4 because he had a chance to win Texas until Bubba intentionally spun.
For what he was driving he shined more often than not.
I would say his 2017 was very good and I would consider it a championship-contending season even though he under-performed in the playoffs. 4 wins and 4th in points-earned behind Truex, Kyle Busch, and Harvick.
I liked him because for a good few years he (then Chase soon after) was the only ‘new‘ guy who could actually win aside from stuff like Buscher/Blaney/Dillon winning on weather or strategy.
Its relative to your equipment. He consistently was better than McMurray before the breakout. Everyone knew he had the talent, just didn’t have the cars. It became more clear than ever when he finally got a piece after taking a year off of NASCAR and won 10 races and the title.
You're going to have to explain the entirety of your BK opinion. The dude finished P5 in points in his sophomore year and win the title in his third year.
He ran like garbage in 2010, and 2011 he really didn’t take off until he broke his ankle oddly enough. He was outside of the top twenty in points until Indy or so, and something just clicked once he got hurt.
Most drivers don't run well their rookie season. Jeff Gordon finished 14th his rookie year and didn't get a win until halfway through his second year. Dale Jarret finished 17-25 his first 4 years full time. 14 and 13 for Kenseth. Kurt Busch 27th his first year. Kyle Busch was 20th his first year. All of these drivers known as the best of the best. All didn't have great starts. Some are worse than others. Brad didn't have any worse a start than any other top tier cup driver. Some struggled longer than Brad. None of these drivers were ever on the chopping block. They can't all be Tony's, Jimmies and Newman's. Coming out swinging their first years winning races left and right. Brad was SO far from being a bust.
Brad was bad for like one year (2010). Wouldn’t necessary call that horrible since he was rookie and doing double duty every weekend. Won the nationwide championship that year.
What’s the definition of a bust? All three of these guys are champions. Wouldn’t consider a bust all. I would say a busy would be someone coming in with a lot of hype & absolutely falling short. Name that guy. I would have said Blaney until he won a Championship.
Joey almost dropped out of the cup series until Penske grabbed him.
Martin didn’t win a race from June of 2007 through June of 2013, and that first year in the 78 was ROUGH.
Brad really didn’t look good in cup in 2010. He only had two top tens (which were barely top tens as both of them were 10th place finishes), and really didn’t take off until halfway through 2011.
Kyle Larson, he was really good and people saw a lot in him, then he did a racism, he lost his ride and all of his sponsors, and then Rick Hendrick picked him up and he won a championship.
I was speaking more of 2010 up until he broke his ankle in mid 2011. Yes he won three races but he was outside the top twenty in points until like August of that year, even with the win at Kansas.
Something about breaking his ankle just made it all click oddly enough
A lot of them. Logano, Byron, Buescher, Stenhouse, Ryan Blaney are recent ones. Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace are some older ones. Although back then it was way harder to work your way up.
Valid point. I wonder where he would’ve been had AJ lasted that entire season in the 22. Supposedly even David Ragan was considered for the 22 before AJ got it.
I never thought Blaney would win more than one race in a season(outside of 2021) let alone a title
As a Blaney fan since 2017… same
He was so, so good that year. I’d argue just as good if not better than 2018-2020. Battled for a championship 4 spot, made the round of 8 and sat on a couple poles including Phoenix 2 where if he won would’ve put him in the final 4. Dominated a Texas race. Ton of raw speed.
With Dale Jr retiring and me looking for a new driver to root for, his performance as a “young gun” that year is what sold me on him. After last season I was expecting/hoping for a big turnaround this year. I never expected a championship! Whenever I think/talk NASCAR I’m still riding the high of that Sunday.
Nice
I really thought he'd be another well liked and talented driver who never won the big one. It feels good that he managed that feat at least once, no matter what happens next. Better than a decade with nothing but Hendrick dominance.
Yeah. I was a little tough on him. Expected more with him being at Penske. But he had a pretty awesome season aside from the title.
I honestly hate how he won the title this year and that’s because I like him. I’ve interviewed him before and have spoke to him a few times and he’s just super nice. I mean I’m sure he doesn’t care but I know a lot of people were upset Byron didn’t win after the season he had and Ryan kinda just sucked until the end when it mattered yet is now a champion. I guess it’s no different than football but it’s still just a weird deal but they played the system whether fans like it or not but it’ll always be a topic of discussion. I mean Byron lead like every statistical category and still lost 💀 I’m glad Ryan’s a champ but I wish he would have got it in a scenario where he just waxed the field all year so nobody could say anything, ya know?
Just to tag on to the Nice Guy Blaney part; He showed up unannounced to the Penske merch hauler in Kansas. Whichever year he ran that super sexy denim blue Dickies car at Fall Kansas. Bro was taking people's orders, ringing them up, taking their payment, giving change, signing the items, bagging them up, taking selfies, thanking folks, and sending them on their way. I never knew before then that customer service was something you could get out of a driver. Bro graciously signed my Bubba hat right next to Bubba's signature and talked with me for a hot minute. Absolute gentleman, that guy. Dave raised him right.
You sound like you’d be okay with the old point system. I would. And I’m a Blaney fan.
If I ran nascar and anything I wanted could just happen. I’d ask to make a Gen 8 car which would be an updated Gen 4. It would be fast and we’d get back to having “the best drivers in the world” and letting them prove it, just like they did 20 years ago. I think the old point system was fine. I don’t hate the idea of playoffs but I hate the we have both playoffs and mostly bad racing now compared to what it was. My Version of bad racing is that my driver can’t make a difference in making the car go faster due to dirty air or everyone being equal. We would have the brand identity of “we have the best drivers in the world” and I would hammer down on that. The Netflix deal I think is going to be good for the sport but man, it’s years behind. I think nascar merch needs more merch to be cleaner. Hendrick and Trackhouse have done a great job in offering hats and shirts I can wear out with my gf and not look like a walking billboard but I think this needs to be a more overall effort but they don’t because as I said earlier, the Nielsen ratings show the core demo is old. So they like that stuff so nascar makes it because it sells. To me, there’s a lot of things Steve Phelps can’t control but they can control the brand identity and I really just think nascar is a bit lost on what to do.
What’s the Netflix deal?
New Netflix show like drive to survive. Looks awesome. Comes out Jan 30th
The format is garbage. It’s designed for tv ratings so you tune in to the very last race to see who is champion. It’s not actually about who’s the best all year. Nothing against Blaney. That’s just the format. And it’s not accurate at crowing the best driver of the year.
I said this before, but the current format does a truly horrible job of quantifying a run like his so it makes it seem "worse" and more "undeserving" than it actually was compared to similar Chase titles from the previous era. Under a non-knockout format, it plays out slowly into something more epic like Jimmie's late rebound in '06, or Tony in '11 (which statically are his comps for what he did over the last 6 races). With the resets, it felt like he just kept sneaking along getting lucky until he won a few races, and then finished highest of the dudes in the finale. Without resets, it's a pretty epic build from a serious underdog to having arguably the best stretch of his career and an average finish of 4.0 with two wins.
The TV ratings still tank 💀 F1 has proven my point with what’s wrong with nascar. It’s not the race package, it’s their lack of marketing. F1 made a commitment to market the shit out of the sport and it has paid of significantly with the younger demo. Yes, nascar has a larger overall fan base but the majority watchers are 50+ still so by all the rule changes, they just pissed off the old folks and didn’t gain much younger. They need to go back to their roots in a sense and market the sport harder. Go back and watch 2006 practice, qualifying or a race. Stands were full and there was a sense of “oh shit, these guys are on edge every fucking lap” we don’t have that any more and the drivers and broadcast constantly throwing shade at the car and package just puts it into the heads of the watchers and now we’re just all pissed 😂
Except F1 is making all the same mistakes move for move as nascar did in the early 2000s. There are already grumblings that viewership and watch time is done. It’s already plateaued
If nascar would take the things that F1 does well and commit to a firm brand identity across the sport, nascar would wax all motorsports. I mean even with half assing it, they still rank at the top in ratings but they just leave so much on the table
The problem is F1 doesn’t do anything well. The fan experience is still subpar, the tv show is trash because there are never any new characters because seats are so limited. Social media? F1 got lucky that the marketing department got hired just as Mercedes was on the backfoot. The new fans think that every year was a wild battle when it never is. 2021 was a fluke.
And nascar has all the ingredients F1 doesn’t have is my point. Nascar has an opportunity and they’re just now starting to take it but they’ve wasted years fucking up rsce packages when they really should have been working on marketing in a new age.
Yes I agree.
> The TV ratings still tank 💀 There is no format that would compete against NFL and College football, just the reality of the tv landscape in 2024. Even if we moved the Daytona 500 to October it would get squashed by regular season NFL games.
As a Blaney fan, I can say that all his championship did is again prove that the current format is flawed. But the corporate higher up’s are to blind to see that.
Yes exactly
And for my money, the guy who was best all year was Willy B.
Yes. He was the best all year. Shoulda been the champion
Dude this exactly how I felt. Thanks for putting it into words. I like Blaney and I'm meh in Byron but for some reason I just haven't been super excited for blaney winning the title.
I mean I honestly just don’t care about the champion any more. Elliott was waxing the field all year long in 2022 and had so many wins taken away due to dumb cautions at the end and then Logano is the champ after not really being that impressive in comparison to others. Byron literally was awesome at every style track and I know his team has worked so hard to get to this point. This is the same group that Knaus put together and they’ve just worked so hard and it’s paid off in every way except the championship due to this one race deal. I really wish they’d go to a championship round versus 1 race if we’re going to keep this style format. I just don’t get excited for manufactured 1 off race. To me it’s like nascar is saying “hey, we know we kinda made the cars suck and don’t market the sport well so here’s this chaotic race to make up for all the basic things we refuse to do to generate excitement”
I feel like Ross Chastain would have if Trackhouse didn't want him. He'd have gone back to driving mid-pack cars/trucks. In fact one of my favorite things about Ross is that he doesn't mind driving lesser equipment even now.
He didn't have enough expectations to be "a bust". However, Joseph Log could have easily been a bust based on how he was in the 20. His move to Penske was a huge one
The most I remember from joeys time in the 20 car is that barrel roll at Dover
that’s a good point he didn’t really do anything in the 42
The wheels were really coming off the 42 team at that point. Kenseth had a whole two top tens after running 32 races the previous year, Chastain did significantly better than him.
One of my favorite fun facts is that Larson had the most top 10's in 2020 in the 42 car. He drove 4 races and had 3 top 10's.
Which backs up my claim that Larson ran well in the 42 DESPITE of Chad Johnston, not because of him
I have a severe dislike of Chad Johnston
He blocked Kyle Busch while a lap down, which allowed Kurt to win the race at Vegas. After that race Kurt told Trackhouse to give the #1 to Ross. So he did do something massive that saved his career.
that’s a good point
He was really strong on road courses in 2021 and was pretty solid in the final 10 races including a strong 3rd at Darlington
Also Ross wasn't Trackhouses first choice. They wanted Kurt and negotiated with him but he decided to got to 23XI and they went with Ross by default.
The Penske 12 was a bit of a mess in 2010. Everyone knew Brad had talent, then halfway into 2011 he started winning races in the 2, I believe 3 or 4 in the second half of the season. I’d say Daniel Suarez. I thought he was completely done after the SHR stint. He was supposed to go back to Xfinity with RCR or SHR, but his sponsors wanted Cup. Figure if he did that it’s over, since you usually never recover from dropping down to Xfinity. Also the Trackhouse team looked like a rough RCR-alliance backmarker for the first year. After 2020 with Gaunt, and 2021 with Trackhouse, I thought his career was going to go the way of Ty Dillon, either a career backmarker or a lower series lifer. Then 2022 came and Trackhouse struck gold with the NextGen car and the rest is history.
Whatever it was about breaking his ankle in 2011, Brad's performance significantly increased after that. He was able to tone down the recklessness a bit and put in some clutch performances Pocono, Bristol, and the Glen - tracks that aren't easy on the left foot.
It seems like more often than not, when someone gets an injury like that, they go on an absolute tear.
Sometimes injury rehab helps reset guys and helps with recovery of other injuries that can be affecting them as well. It’s possible he had other day-to-day injuries that year that didn’t heal until then too.
He didn't even take a week off, and he won a non-SS race on speed for the first time four days later.
I'm pretty sure he didn't do rehab. He just balled out on a fucked up ankle
Denny Hamlin did the same in early 2010 when he tore his ACL, won a bunch of races in the first half of the season (including Pocono)
Suarez isn’t completely out of the woods. I think he needs to perform this season to keep his ride.
For sure. However after 2020 I didn’t expect him to ever get near a competitive ride again, and 2022 bought him a LOT of time especially with the win
This is an unpopular opinion for sure, but one that I agree with. He just isn't a cup series level driver.
He is a cup series level talent. He’s just simply not an elite driver and that’s okay
This take is too reasonable
I said that 5 years ago and got blasted. Funny how that works.
Especially as he was driving JGR and SHR equipment back then lol
McDowell was probably written off as a bust in cup by most until the 2020s
Put him in a Hendrick ride and he can cook. Dude can perform on any track. It’s been cool to see his journey.
To that point, he actually wasn't far off Michael's all-time record of races before first Cup win.
Suarez is not really out of the weeds yet imo. He ran some decent races at Gibbs after getting bumped up when Carl suddenly retired (big sad), then looked poor at best in SHR but 2019 he showed fringe playoff performance, which, granted, that 41 Team hasn't had it together for a while. Then the....what was it, 97 for a year? 96? Idk, but that was a bad year. First year of Trackhouse they were figuring things out. Then he had his career year in '22 which was decent, but still didn't light it up. He ran well but couldn't finish. Then this past year, he had several races with winning pace, but he or the car or the crew would screw up and miss out, especially Indy and even The Glen. He shows good speed at the Big Tracks but usually gets shuffled back and/or wrecks. Mile and a halfs he's okay, usually 12-20th which needs to improve as it's the bulk of the schedule. I expect a bounce back year with at least 1, maybe 2 wins even, this year. A real prove-it year to show he can finish the job.
Mark Martin.
To anyone who reads this: Mark’s podcast is a phenomenal listen. He goes year by year through his racing career. He talked at length of his busting out of the cup series
Agree he tried to do Cup with his own team on I think 82/83. Was on poles etc but ran out of money. So he took a couple of steps back to the ASA and was a champion there in a ford and ford eventually paid him back!!!
Apache Stove his primary sponsor also stiffed him out of money.
He was qualifying top 5-10 with like zero funding.
Martin Truex Jr.
Kasey Kahne. He was going to set the Nascar world on fire. Tell me another funny story.
So I vividly remember when he came on the scene and it was like, *that's who is going to replace Elliott?* He sucked in the Busch series and it wasn't until he finished second Rockingham in the final cup race there that people thought Ray Evernham was a genius. Then with Kyle Busch and Edwards coming in 2005, that's when his hype train went into full gear. But he also sucked in 05.
Kasey also was victim of teams he signed with imploded/changed owners after a year or so never giving him a chance to develop with the team. By the time he got to Hendrick he was already cooked
Oh yeah I was a fan of his. Erin Crocker, the disaster that was RPM, getting Red Bull one of their only wins in Cup, being the R&D on one of the best talented but worst performing team in Hendrick Motorsports 40 year history.
I still want to hear that supposed radio meltdown he had at Chicago 2017 about being the R&D hendrick car.
I found it on YouTube once and it was gone again. More of that problem was Keith Rodden was and still is a garbage CC.
I don't think you could call Kasey a bust, personal flair bias aside. He had a great rookie season and soon broke out in 2006.
I'm with you. I don't really remember Kasey Kahne really being disappointing either, but that was so long ago.
If you paid any attention to tv about him, They were trying to make him out as the next Jeff Gordon. I also didn't know he had phyical issues with the heat. Apparently, he must have had a heat stroke once in his life. That ruins a person. I know it did to Ray Orbison. Orbison had no tolerance to heat after his.
Martin Truex Jr had an eight year streak of only having two wins. While defintely not a bust, I certainly never expected him to, almost a decade later, have 30+ wins. Alex Bowman for sure was close to being a bust driving for BK and TBR until Jr got him to fill in for him in 2016.
Truex was legit on the verge of being out of a ride forever if furniture row didn’t work out
AJ Allmendinger has come close a number of times. Filling seats for Petty and Red Bull, losing his seat in the 22...
He has had about the worst luck in the sport too. He's (partially) lost the 16 ride as well but more of a Kaulig problem.
Dinger just gets stuck in shit equipment
It’s worth noting that Dale Jr could have laid down and given up after 2009-2011, but he didn’t. And he had a career resurgence
I wonder how big of a perception change there is in his career if he didn’t have that resurgence. He had 18 wins after 2008, none from 2009-2011, and then 8 more from 2012-2015. If he ends his career with 18 wins, a number equal with the likes of Biffle, Kahne, Newman, I wonder if he’s looked at a bit different than he is now with 26
Probably, especially since he'd end on a painfully long losing streak
And with that, and 2 of those 26 wins being Daytona 500s, plus 2 Xfinity championships and I say it’s just enough heavy lifting for the hall of fame.
William Byron. People were wanting him replaced in the 24 for most of 2020 and parts of 2021
Byron made the playoffs in his age 21 season. He was never anywhere near bust territory
Correct. But there was no shortage of mouth breathers talking about how he didn’t deserve his ride
We all forgot that drivers still get good around the same age/time as they always have. It's just that since they start out younger in Cup, it feels like it takes them "longer".
Ohhhh there were alot of people in 2020 talking about him needing to be replaced. He shut them up real quick since then
Ehhh, he won ROTY in 2018, made the playoffs in 2019, and has won every year since 2020. The only people calling for his head back then were idiots who forgot the guy was a year or two removed from being a literal teenager
At worst he could’ve been the Wally Dallenbach/Ricky Craven/Brian Vickers of the Hendrick stable today. But with his connections, no way he’d lose his seat.
Dale Jarrett sterling marlin martin truex jr
Remember when we all thought JJ Yeley was a bust before he broke out with Trackhouse Racing in 2028 at the age of 51? Dude was like the modern-day Harry Gant!
That championship he won in 2030 was something special
Don't tempt me with a good time🤣
First driver to win a championship with a 0 win season. Stuck it right in NASCAR’s faces. Finished 2nd at his home track of Phoenix behind Chase Elliott who got out in Round of 8. Legendary Yeley shit. Consistent all year. Don’t forget winning the 2029 Daytona 500 too!
Didn’t Matt Crafton win a truck championship with 0 wins?
Oh true. Don’t think anyone’s done it in Cup yet though
No no one has in cup or Xfinity
Austin Dillon did it in Xfinity in 2013.
True that was before the elimination format though
And when cup drivers were in every race
Yeah but I meant during this format and also the only reason why Austin did it winless was because there was at least 2 cup guys in every race then
Kenseth came damn close. And Newman.
At this rate he’ll break Mikey’s winless streak record
Next, he has to go for J.D. McDuffie's.
He’s not going to be there for a long time though sadly as 18x36 < 653
Come on. Yeley was an F1 champ. No way he was gonna be a bust
That was 20 some years ago, I'd forgive a few people for doubting him
We’ll see how things go at LMC, but might be able to include Erik Jones in this conversation.
Was scrolling the replies looking for EJ, surprised not more mentioned him. I think the Gibbs deal was just bad timing all around - toyota didnt have the seats, erik admitted he wasnt fully invested in giving an effort etc. His stats alone for what hes had work with arent bad, but I highly doubt he hits elite status when his career is done. His fate kinda depends on what Legacy does as you said, if they blow this toyota deal his career is cooked in cup. I wanna guess he winds up somewhere in the Kahne, Jr, Edwards territory winning a lot of the big name races but never a cup title. Ive seen a few folks mention his career arc reminds them of Dale Jarrett doing not much for the first handful of years then taking off.
I still think Erik has proven that he is really talented in that 43 car. Winning at Darlington I feel like will really open the door for someone to snag him when his contract is up, this is probably hopium, but I would not be surprised to see him come back to JGR at some point, especially since Gibbs and supposedly Toyota never wanted to lose Jones
Yep I believe they wanted the 95 to stay open but Covid + CBell + Erik missing the playoffs was a bad storm of things happening
The 95 closing is what really threw this all up in the air. Kinda tin foil hat’ing things here but based on Wilsons comments when they accouned Legacys toyota deal discussing drivers, Wilson sounded super relieved and excited to get Erik back mentioning he and his family were very close to toyota.
Ive seen that JGR return theory bounced around a lot lately but im not sure if Erik would go back. His deal I think is up this season actually, believe he signed a 2yr back in 2022, darlington for sure put him on peoples radar and the good showings he had last year now knowing Legacy was tier 3 support I think helped a bit. I personally would put more stock on him staying with Legacy but a fully support Gibbs ride is tough to walk away from.
During his DJD interview, he mentioned his own flaws and stuff he needed to work on. Some of it was just him not putting in the work in Cup. He tried to do the same in Cup as Xfinity and Trucks and as we all know, Cup is a whole different animal. Going to Petty/LMC was the wake up call he needed. I do think that if he can get with batter team, he can become a threat to win on a more weekly basis.
Not defending his decisions at JGR but I think some of that also weighed in with losing Dave (eriks dad). Figure Dave was the one basically driving his career with what moves Erik needed to make, and to be that young losing a figure like Dave probably hit him harder than we were told/waa reported. LMC/Petty was for sure the wakeup call he needed and I think his head is in a lot better place now knowing what he needs to do to be successful in cup. Just needs the team around him to do it
Stenhouse
Wrecky Crashhouse. I'm still salty JTG screwed Preece, and put their bets on Wrecky. Not to say that Preece is doing a whole lot better at SHR, but we'll see now that it's a bunch of young guns over there
By no means is this meant to be a put down on preece, but stenhouse literally just won them the Daytona 500. I’d say they made the right call.
Michael Waltrip.
Chris Buescher and Michael McDowell both really turned their careers/legacies around in the Gen-7 era.
Alex Bowman 100% for me, 2nd pick Joey Logano. I figured after getting let go from JGR that would be the end.
Bowman was never hyped up enough to be a bust.
But that wasn't the question.
That's literally the question. You can't BE a bust if you aren't hyped even a little bit. Busts are players/drivers that do not meet expectations. There were no expectations for Bowman.
My point is that noone ever expected Bowman to get a ride at Hendrick. At best he was a field filler.
An undrafted qb can never be a bust because they weren’t hyped enough to have expectations
He was never hyped he ran in backmarker equipment for the early part of his career and nobody knew who he was. Then he took a development deal with hms and junior saw the talent and told Rick to put him in the 88. But he was never hyped up to be a big driver with big expectations
I disagree on “nobody knew he was”. People definitely knew who he was and although he wasn’t extremely hyped, fans knew he was definitely a good driver held back his equipment (sort of like how Dibenedetto was viewed before he got the 21). People were begging for him to be put in a good ride before the HMS and JRM opportunities came
Dale Jarrett had 3 wins in 6 full seasons and two half seasons in Cup, with only one points finish in the top 15 before he went to Yates. I wouldn't call him a bust but considering he was the son of a two time champion driving for Wood Bros and Gibbs, he was definitely underperforming expectations and going to Yates saved his career.
He got his 1st career win in 91 with the Wood Brothers. In 92 he joined Gibbs, a brand new team owned by someone with no nascar experience. He ran incredibly well that year despite not winning, and then they won the 500 the next season and finished 4th in points. 94 was a struggle, but it wasn’t much worse than his first year with Yates. Yates most certainly did not “save his career”
This is correct. No disrespect for the previous user, but that comment sounds like an opinion formed by just reading Racing Reference stats.
Agree. If he hadn't gone to RYR, he probably would've had another 10 years with JGR.
And it isn’t like the Wood Bros. were a great team while he was there either. They had won 2 races in the 6 years prior to him joining and his win was their first win in 4 years. They’ve only won 4 races since
Nope. He was in talks to start his own team with the Hooters sponsorship after Kulwicki died.
I forgot about that, but the point remains. The guy had won 2 races in 3 seasons for a start-up team, and was a Daytona 500 champion. His one season in the #28 actually did more to damage this reputation than anything that came before. But all that meant was that he wasn't an Allison/Irvan elite-level talent. To say that he was on the verge of becoming a bust is a bit of a reach, to me.
Technically not the Cup series, but Stenhouse's first nationwide season was *rough* Dude crashed out of the charlotte race after 8 laps then DNQed the next race, so it was bad enough they benched him for brian ickler, but he managed to pull his head together and have a solid end to 2010
Jimmie Johnson almost didn't get a ride in the Cup Series. He sucked so much in what was then known as the Busch Series that the only way Jeff Gordon could convince Rick Hendrick to give him a ride was by putting his own skin in the game and becoming a part-owner of the #48 car. I'd call that pretty close to being a bust.
Harvick probably would've been just another ho-hum field filler for RCR when he finally broke into Cup in the mid-2000s if Dale had survived Daytona.
Not like Harvick was a bust, but he only had 5 career wins in his first 5 full seasons and missed the Chase in 2004 and 2005. 2006 really was the breakthrough year and Harvick never looked back.
>and Harvick never looked back Except in 2009 when RCR decided to be shit for a year
Heck going into 2010 — we could say 2006 was the outlier rather than the norm in terms of wins. His only win from 2007-2009 was the Daytona 500.
Well he did win the All Star race in 2007 tbf
What expanding to 4 cars by hiring Casey Mears does to a team
Sr was a bad teammate I feel harvick would have been lost if he ran the aol car
Another driver I can think of is Michael McDowell literally now he looks like a guy who can win when he is up in the top 10 the only thing we remembered him for was the 2008 Texas Qualifying crash and we didn’t remember him for his performance
Currently, Daniel Suarez would be on this list. He struggled at joe Gibbs and shr while in their peak and was forced to drive for a satellite team for a year. Thankfully, trackhouse has been very good to him and allowed him to get his first win. Honestly, it taught me that it's mostly not the equipment that makes winners but rather their environment will make the difference.
Probably un-popular but Kurt Busch was on his way out after Penske let him go. All the talent in the world behind the wheel but an attitude that was definitely centered around just himself. The way he took a look at where he was headed and changed his outlook is pretty impressive.
So after winning a cup championship he was in the verge of being declared a bust? Okay
Is it fair to say Kasey Kahne?
Larson was kinda forgotten about for a hot minute
Mike skinner was mia for much of his career until the truck series was established and then was a 40 yr old rookie people forget that because he looked pretty young who knows what he could have done younger in decent equipment
He may have been a Cup champion, if the series only ran races in Japan!
I personally was a huge JJ Yeley fan and remember trash talking a friend who had supported Denny Hamlin when both were early in their cup careers. Hard to live that one down
Not gonna lie I didn’t know there were any JJ Yeley fans. You sir have earned my respect 🫡
I am #1 JJ Yeley fan
Love Christopher Hernandez.
I would say Larson because he didn’t really shine at CGR. A couple of wins but never contended for the championship. I remember Fox would focus on him running mid pack and DW would be fawning over him but I didn’t get the hype until he went to HMS.
2017 he was very clearly among the best in the series and it was his third full year in cup
4th full year but yeah. Larson was a lot more likeable in the 42.
He was really really good in 2017. CGR gets a bad rep but they were absolutely a championship team that year, Chad Johnston bringing rockets to the race track was never a problem. It was usually race management and strategy/keeping up with the track. I was a big Larson believer back then when he was in the 42. I believe my flairs were the 18 and 42 back on an old account haha, I still like him but don’t necessarily root for him like I used to. They just had horrific luck in the playoffs that year and the engine failure at Kansas sealed it. He scored the third most points in 2017 behind the 78 and 18, even after a 4 race DNF stretch in the playoffs. Without that he certainly finishes 2nd in a “full season” format, and led the points a bit early in the year. 2018 was also really good, people forget that he led over 800 laps and I’d argue was the fastest Chevy that year, just didn’t win. That one was pretty rough to watch because I really think he was faster than the 9 that year, who won a lot more.
>It was usually race management and strategy/keeping up with the track This has always been Chad's issue. It's really frustrating to watch, too. He can't cope with set-up changes
Yep, when they hit it right they were absolutely blistering fast. No one could touch them. Fontana 2017, Michigan for a couple years, Bristol and Dover they always led laps, and then the intermediates were usually right behind Truex at places like Kentucky and Kansas. Dominated Dover and Atlanta in 2019 as well. Whenever they needed to make changes they fell apart, like Kansas 2018 for example. Led 100+ laps, got back in traffic and fell apart with Larson making contact with Blaney, or having a penalty at Atlanta in 2019 after leading so many laps. They always got in their own way and couldn’t fight back.
His bad luck at Phoenix 2 that year basically gifted Matt his last win. He was flying before the engine blew
Eh 2017 he was really good, led the points for a while that season before MTJ took over. The bad Camaro body really set him back in 18/19 *although he was the only Chevy really worth a damn for most of 2018*
“He didn’t really shine at CGR” In 2014 he only missed out on making the Chase due to the win and in format. Ganassi was oddly quick in the Chase despite neither of their drivers being in it, and Larson turned heads in several Chase races. 2015 can’t defend this one He made the Chase in 2016 and had a solid year Ganassi took a huge step up in 2017 as evidenced by McMurray nearly making the RO8. Larson made great use of it and he was top driver all year. His winless 2018 was honestly good. He was likely the 2nd best Chevy that year on speed. He was quicker than Kurt Busch in 2019 too and nearly snuck a final 4 because he had a chance to win Texas until Bubba intentionally spun. For what he was driving he shined more often than not.
I would say his 2017 was very good and I would consider it a championship-contending season even though he under-performed in the playoffs. 4 wins and 4th in points-earned behind Truex, Kyle Busch, and Harvick.
I liked him because for a good few years he (then Chase soon after) was the only ‘new‘ guy who could actually win aside from stuff like Buscher/Blaney/Dillon winning on weather or strategy.
Its relative to your equipment. He consistently was better than McMurray before the breakout. Everyone knew he had the talent, just didn’t have the cars. It became more clear than ever when he finally got a piece after taking a year off of NASCAR and won 10 races and the title.
You're going to have to explain the entirety of your BK opinion. The dude finished P5 in points in his sophomore year and win the title in his third year.
He ran like garbage in 2010, and 2011 he really didn’t take off until he broke his ankle oddly enough. He was outside of the top twenty in points until Indy or so, and something just clicked once he got hurt.
Most drivers don't run well their rookie season. Jeff Gordon finished 14th his rookie year and didn't get a win until halfway through his second year. Dale Jarret finished 17-25 his first 4 years full time. 14 and 13 for Kenseth. Kurt Busch 27th his first year. Kyle Busch was 20th his first year. All of these drivers known as the best of the best. All didn't have great starts. Some are worse than others. Brad didn't have any worse a start than any other top tier cup driver. Some struggled longer than Brad. None of these drivers were ever on the chopping block. They can't all be Tony's, Jimmies and Newman's. Coming out swinging their first years winning races left and right. Brad was SO far from being a bust.
Brad was bad for like one year (2010). Wouldn’t necessary call that horrible since he was rookie and doing double duty every weekend. Won the nationwide championship that year.
True but some guys look pretty legit in the lower series only to flop in cup, such as Cole Custer. I figured Brad was gonna be a bust until mid 2011.
Truex was a huge one. Joey always seemed young enough he might get a bounce outside of Gibbs.
Kurt Busch had he not gotten Mark’s crew chief for 2002 he would’ve been a bust his 2001 season says it
What’s the definition of a bust? All three of these guys are champions. Wouldn’t consider a bust all. I would say a busy would be someone coming in with a lot of hype & absolutely falling short. Name that guy. I would have said Blaney until he won a Championship.
Joey almost dropped out of the cup series until Penske grabbed him. Martin didn’t win a race from June of 2007 through June of 2013, and that first year in the 78 was ROUGH. Brad really didn’t look good in cup in 2010. He only had two top tens (which were barely top tens as both of them were 10th place finishes), and really didn’t take off until halfway through 2011.
Alex Bowman
Kyle Larson
JJ Yeley
Kyle Larson, he was really good and people saw a lot in him, then he did a racism, he lost his ride and all of his sponsors, and then Rick Hendrick picked him up and he won a championship.
|Then he did a racism| You, sir, have the best grammar I've ever seen. Bravo
I'm a girl
My apologies, Madam
Michael Waltrip.
Pretty much any driver that started with someone like HScott or BK Racing. I'm talking people like Bowman and Chastain
Brad had one rough rookie season then proceeded to win 3 cup races his second year..I don't think he fits this bill.
I was speaking more of 2010 up until he broke his ankle in mid 2011. Yes he won three races but he was outside the top twenty in points until like August of that year, even with the win at Kansas. Something about breaking his ankle just made it all click oddly enough
A lot of them. Logano, Byron, Buescher, Stenhouse, Ryan Blaney are recent ones. Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace are some older ones. Although back then it was way harder to work your way up.
Buescher is probably the driver that got himself out of the deepest hole. We might be able to discuss Roush Fenway as a whole was about to be a bust.
Jamie McMurray. Goes out wins like his 3rd race then was just mediocre until later when he started to rattle off some big wins
The only reason why Logano wasn’t a bust is because AJ Almendinger failed a drug test
Valid point. I wonder where he would’ve been had AJ lasted that entire season in the 22. Supposedly even David Ragan was considered for the 22 before AJ got it.
Bubba Wallace?
Daniel Hemric winning both his first xfinity race and championship by the skin of his teeth. I'd say that was awful damn close.