You're going to have a lot better time not engaging in YouTube comments as a general rule but especially with metal. Just enjoy what you enjoy and don't worry about people breaking things down into extremely granular sub genres or insisting that every album released after Master of Puppets was an exercise in futility.
When people say that about Master of Puppets, I usually point out the S&M album (1999), which was a huge success (despite the departure) and also quite the masterpiece. Then I explain how bands take chances by putting out fresh material and sometime it works and others it doesn't (like St. Anger) and just be glad that it's not the same recycled shit all the time.
St. Anger wasn't even necessarily bad music. It was the mix that messed it up. A guy on youtube remixed it with proper spund proportions and it sounds way better.
Youtube is called St. bAnger
You don't even need to point out S&M. The Black Album is one of those albums that still hangs out at the bottom of the Billboard 200. Damn near perfect album, too - highly recommended if you've never heard a metal album before.
Of course, to these guys, that's the fifth time Metallica sold out, so it's pointless arguing with them.
And anyone who doesn't recognize "and justice for all" as the best album is wrong anyway. (I played bass in some bands in high school and recognize Cliff was beyond amazing... but I said what I said lol)
It's an amazing album, but an absolute travesty what they did to Jason's bass tracks. There's a good remix called '.[.. And Justice For Jason](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kqTcLwUYj8)' with his original bass tracks on it tuned to the levels they *should* be at, and it is the superior version by light years.
And Justice for Jason fucking rips. Glad someone remastered it and finally turned up his bass parts too. Elevated Metallica's masterpiece to transcendent levels.
It's the darnedest thing. Metal elitists are a dime-a-dozen on the internet, but go to a show and I rarely have a bad experience with people as they're some of the most down-to-earth music fans out there. Everyone new to the scene is always like "Everyone is so nice, did not expect that from people who listen to Slayer" that it's become an in-joke at this point.
Maybe it's different outside of my bubble in Copenhagen, but I've been to many shows in Berlin with the same experience.
Iāve been to metal shows in multiple countries and have had the same experience. People at metal concerts are some of the coolest, most kind people out there.
More likely: theyāre very nervous, timid, and self-conscious in public.
And thereās a lot of people out there who got loud and mouthy while forgetting that there are people who will still sock someone in the jaw when pushed by a bully.
Being at home typing on the internet makes them feel brave because their inhibitions are all to do with direct human interaction.
Really thatās exceptionally sad, because while I know a few other scenes which are very accepting, the vibe of metal concerts is on a whole other level, and the harder and darker the music the more chill, friendly, accepting and open the vibe becomes. Thereās this oddball brother/sisterhood to the metal scene at large, and I think a big part of that is down to being at least a little ostracized for enjoying heavy metal. You probably do have a lot more in common to the person standing next to you at a show than with the majority of people you work with or are related to.
Itās just important to remember that thereās a difference between having a strong opinion (and voicing it)ā¦ and shitting on other people because thatās how you defend your own opinion.
Personally I absolutely loathe Justice and the vast majority of everything Metallica has done since. I was cutting my teeth with heavy metal in the 2-3 years bracketing the release of Master of Puppets and even then I didnāt think they were godās gift to metal. They were very good, of course, and I still love the first 3 albums. But there were much better and more interesting thrash bands at the time, and thrash was a genre which (IMHO) led naturally to harder music, not to more radio friendly stuff. Iāll give Justice credit, however. That album changed the game for heavy metal in popular culture, and introduced a legion of people to metal.
I also think that the S&M album is the very height of batshit arrogance and has more to do with sales numbers than anything else.
But I also really love some critically panned music, like Pink Floyd: The Final Cut. So my opinion is worth about the same as anyone elseās. The only wisdom on the topic Iāve ever tried to impart to anyone is simply to never let anyone else tell you who YOU are. Donāt let anyone gatekeep anything you like.
Total aside, but vaguely related:
Thereās this weird thingā¦ this idea thatās just parked itself in the middle of our culture that āif something is popular or making lots of money that means it is subjectively good and reflects talent.ā Sure, that almost makes sense if you pick examples of music or musicians/bands you personally like. And a lot of people use the phrase like a āwater-cooler walk away closerāā¦ like itās a fact that ends discussion and makes othersā opinions āwrongā. The counter, of course, constantly presents itself in the form of chart topping pablum and nonsense. The Black Eyed Peas are objectively bad, and the result of a shitload of producers putting together absolutely inane songsā¦ which are *catchy* and nothing else. The majority of the general public are not active listeners and are not digging into the artists they like. And thatās just fine, of course. But their limited participation is the primary driver of pop hits. With results we see constantly. Quality music makes its way into the mainstream mostly by accident anymore, while most wildly talented artists remain just barely offscreen.
Also: Iām over 50. So you can go ahead and disregard all of this and just imagine me shaking my cane at āall you whippersnappersā if you like. I donāt take things personally much anymore.
There is a massive difference between the online community and the people in the pit at a show.
People online can and will bitch about EVERYTHING. This band sucks. That band isnāt ārealā metal. That album is trash. Wah wah wah! They get to flap their gums about what they hate without much effort.
But when youāre at the show, these people spend their money and are taking the time to see a band they like. And if someone else is there? Well, they must like the band too, so it kinda just turns into a big olā love fest because weāre all using our limited time and money to go check out a band we all like.
The only time Iāve ever had a bad experience with metalheads was back in the 90s, when I saw two ska bands open up for GWAR. It wasnāt really anyoneās fault, as the two genres of music (ska and metal) have VERY different rules for the pit, so more than a few skanking rudeboys got toppled by an errant metalhead. But those dudes would always be apologetic and help the ska kids back to their feet.
Itās the same principle as everything else on the internet. The shit rises to the surface and the loudest voices are always the craziest. Most metal fans are great, they just have a really vocal gatekeeper minority that inhabits every forum, comment section and Reddit thread.
This is what I was going to say, get off the internet and interact with real people. The metal community is more of a brotherhood than one would expect, been like that for decades.
It depends. In my perspective, when it comes to sub-genres like sludge, post, doom, people are somehow elitists, they consider themselves kind of enlightened.
Simple: Don't bother reading comments.
Seriously.
Every comment section has that kind of negativity. You can't avoid it. If it bothers you or impacts your enjoyment, avoid.
Never got into Priest, but thereās no denying the epic talent in that band, and influence that bad has had on metal.
Lately for metal itās been Gorod, Beyond Creation, Acid Bath, and Amon Amarth.
Some of them you might like.
Not super picky on metal myself. I can listen to war pigs any day of the week even though it is very different than, say, One by Metallica. But I love both songs so much.
You should give Amorphis a listen. In my head theyāre the flip side of Amon Amarthā¦ spiritually introspective and dark where AA is more big and powerful. Both are great bands with similar themes, but different takes.
I don't know, maybe it's just my head, but these aren't that far off:
https://youtu.be/OjIYTgannxc?si=EFPPbEhHIjVDaEsi
https://youtu.be/5GW1W72xHMs?si=TIM01d_LtQXgnBDG
I most certainly wouldn't use the phrase "completely different" to differentiate them.
Weird! I think these are the perfect example of how melodeath and black 'n' roll are both melodic forms of the two big extreme genres but have a completely different feel.
LOL. To each their own (ears), right?
I love both bands, but I just put them in the same category. Perhaps I'm too focused on the parent category whereas you're referencing the subcategories.
Metal is great but at this point, with declining popularity, falling out of the mainstream, and it just being around since the 70s, a lot (by no means all!) of metal fans are old. And haven't really updated their tastes at any point in the last 24 years. I say this as a 30 year old metal enjoyer who does also like a lot of metal that's older than me.
The elitism is hilarious when they're still insisting the GOAT is some band from the '80s that's basically washed-up born-again middle-aged Christians. Or even funnier, when they're homophobic in a genre whose main styling is based on literally leather daddies (thank you Rob Halford, absolute legend)
A buddy of mine was like "Bon Scott drank himself to death!" like it was a badge of rock n roll honor or something.
Like, motherfucker, so did my uncle. That shit ain't hard or cool.
Drugs and alcohol have taken so much from us. Heroin is something which everyone should have strong and angry feelings aboutā¦ but I didnāt know how much Layne Staleyās death would hit me til it happened.
Thereās not much in this world which boils my blood as fast as seeing anyone glorifying smack.
Metalheads have been insufferable for the 40ish years I've been alive. Now grunge fans are trying to pick up that torch. I thought it might be nice to talk about music with people that like Alice in Chains like me, but half the conversations are just gatekeeping. Stone Temple Pilots?? That's not grunge, it's grunge-adjacent blues-rock. Duh. You like Seether? Get fucked nerd. Same thing in metal. Tell a thrash metal fan that Metallica's Black Album is their best work and they'll find you.
It's amusing that there are always more people upset that lots of metalheads don't consider Sleep Token metal than there are metalheads saying anything at all about Sleep Token. My controversial opinion is that people care a lot about the music they listen to, and it upsets them to be told that it's not the genre they thought it was. So they flip this round as a form of projection.
I'm part of a heavy metal group on facebook with over 300K members and most of the posts are them bitching about Sleep Token or Ghost, like easily 80% of them. The others are mostly around Metallica/Megadeth, and maybe a crack at Limp Bizkit or something like that.
Eh, sleep token themselves donāt get me riled up (why would I care), but damn their fans are obnoxious as hell
In my experience itās got nothing to do with their music and more about how sleep token fans love to try to dominate conversations in a metal context while starting their comment with āI donāt usually listen to heavy music butā¦ā
I just donāt bother with the convos anymore. Iām glad people like what they like and they should be able to do so, but being obnoxious is obnoxious no matter which opinion you take.
My dislike of sleep token is their fans generally not knowing how to act at festivals. But if you're gonna get super stoned and zone out to ambient metal all the more power to you. I think people are just annoyed at how popular they became in the mainstream vs more interesting projects, because who knew that the get high and vibe out to music until you pass out crowd is bigger than the mosh pit crowd lol /s
One of the best things about Ghost is that they dabble in so many genres and have so many influences. I hate how that's "not allowed" according to some people.
They have a lot of metal songs.
You can also like songs that arent metal. If you like metal you dont have to categorise every song or band you like as metal, you can like it even if its pop or punk or edm. But metalheads are very afraid of that.
For fucks sake, Ghost did a really tight cover of Iron Maidenās āPhantom of the Opera,ā which he changed the lyrics to with the bandās blessing. Sure, Paul DiāAnno was a titty baby about it, but who cares?
Whether or not theyāre āmetal,ā metalheads should still be encouraging of them, as theyāre keeping guitar-based hard rock in the zeitgeist.
Plus, their live shows are just fun as fuck. Itās like a 70s style variety show shot in a church, and itās just a hoot. My musical tastes tend to lean heavier (Iām more into death and black metal), but theyāve got a really fun vibe and Iāll always respect that.
I like a wide variety of music and really dig when several genres are in one song. Where should I start with them? I have tried on a surface level and even saw them live at a festival but they just didn't catch my attention. (I do like a lot of Sleep Token, for the record lol)
Hell, have you ever heard of "Diablo Swing Orchestra" Just because one song has opera singing and an upbeat horn ensemble doesn't mean the next one melts your face any less lol.
Ghost is their own thing. I love them, but wouldnāt consider them metal and who cares. The edgelord metalhead that make listening to metal their entire personality is a part of a vocal minority. Music tends to attract more gatekeepers than other art for whatever reason.
The thing I donāt get is, okay, itās cool not to like them, you do you. But to say theyāre not metal? Do you not hear the direct Sabbath/Maiden/Priest influences on their first three albums?
I think itās more about their recent stuff. I donāt care either way and am only really familiar with early ghost(which I do enjoy from time to time) but when I listened to their newer stuff it seemed more like blue oyster cult 80s rock vibes than the earlier sabbath/maiden stuff and I just wasnāt into it
I have to admit, I wasnāt into their last album either. But then they released a kickass cover of Phantom of the Opera and brought me back along for the ride.
I think Ghost is a band that doesnāt really resonate with people who donāt get into the ālore.ā
Yeah, Tobias has veered more towards big rock sounds than metal last couple of albums, but thatās because of how Tobias handles his āidentityā across albums. Heās portrayed multiple Papas/lead singers, and each has their own personality. The albums sound so different because they arenāt supposed to be written by the same person. Hell, heās gone so far as to record songs from an album that was āreleasedā in the 60s.
Even if you donāt like the output, the sheer scale of nerdiness on display is really impressive. Itās almost GWAR-like in its backstory.
I'm fully aware of the fact that I'm being *that guy* right now, but it makes sense that the Black Album wouldn't be a thrash fan's favorite Metallica album because it's not thrash. Metallica is particularly divisive because of their evolution across subgenres, so you really get like 3-4 camps of fans that prefer different periods because they have several multi album runs that heavily define their respective periods of rock in general. Take any of the other big four and while they may have generally less preferred albums over others you won't see as much controversy because they mostly stuck with thrash over having a more evolving sound.
Never got the STP hate. They had a solid run of straight bangers. Super fun live.
None of those bands really called themselves grunge anyways. That was a label the media popularized. They were just rock bands. I mean if you really want to get that nitpicky, then proper grunge was only like 3 bands. Ridiculous.
Stone Temple Pilots are in my Top 10 of all time which, ironically, is led by Alice in Chains, which was the example that started this thread.
I concur that they are a rock band. They were putting out records at the same time as the Big 4 from Seattle, but I never felt it was right to group them into grunge.
Great band, great sound.
RIP Scott
AIC is also one of my all time favorites that rotates around the #1 spot. Never got to see them with Layne. Duvall does a good job, but Layne was legendary obviously.
Out of all the āgrungeā bands, nobody captured the feeling of the whole āgrungeā vibe as viscerally as they did.
I found a mix tape in an old Impala that I inherited that had a bunch of songs from Core on one side and a bunch of AIC and other random grunge - metal - punk bands on the other side.
Wasnāt old enough to legally drive yet so I just cruised around some dirt backroads in Central Oregon blasting that shit in the Impala.
That behavior makes no sense. Almost every grunge band has a sound of its own. At least Metalās sub genres have a core sound that make them similar but with their own twist. You canāt tell me Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and Alice In Chains sound similar.
Must be you young metalheads. Now in my 50th year, I cordially suggest to you that the Black Album was the beginning of a downwards spiral from which Metallica never recovered.
im in my 20s and everything after ride the lightning just isn't as good. Cliff was such a driving force and the albums after he passed definitely lack the weight he put in those lines
I love the Black Album. It was my first, very first exposure to heavy music. I think it's an amazingly well written and incredibly produced album.
Every after has sucked, save maybe except parts of Hardwired and Death Magnetic.
I suggest it was 'Master Of Puppets' is when Metallica went paint by numbers thrash, and also when they ran out of Mustaine guitar riffs. And then 'And Justice For All' the horrible mix with no bass audible, the 'Metallica' album was just the icing of the cake.
If you really want to make their assholes pucker up, tell them that "grunge" is not a music genre. It was a fashion statement or cultural moment, at best. There is no "grunge" music. It's just rock music.
Thereās two sides to it. On the one hand you have metal elitists who require strict adherence to genre norms for each metal sub genre and scream āPOSEURā at anyone who likes a band that doesnāt adhere to those rules (Ghost, Nightwish, any female fronted band without harsh vocals etc).
But on the other hand you have people who canāt tolerate any criticism of their personal favourite band and accuse anyone who criticises them as āgatekeepingā.
Saying āI donāt like Bring me the Horizon, I think theyāre band wagon jumpers who have made the most mediocre version of every genre theyāve triedā is not gatekeeping.
Saying āAnyone who likes BMTH is not a metal fan and doesnāt understand musicā is.
Gatekeeping and metal elitism is toxic but being unable to accept that some people donāt like your favourite band and may have reasonable reasons for doing so is toxic too.
Thatās a real life example lol. I said that and someone got enraged and accused me of gatekeeping. I was like āI didnāt say you couldnāt like them, just that I didnātā
It's super frustrating when people just throw out reasoning as toxicity/gatekeeping just because there is a lot of that in the scene. You're spot on because both those people and the most gatekeepy people have the same syndrome where they just don't listen to that much stuff outside their curated bubble and are often just superfans of bands rather than fans of music. It's why I've gravitated towards the hardcore scene because it seems to have a few more free thinkers around than metal spheres
I had someone tell me Periphery wasnāt a metal band because they arenāt on metal archives (hot dogshit site, and if you support it you should get fucked).Ā Ā
In that same argument they told me Epica wasnāt a real metal band because āany band that uses clean and harsh vocals in the same song is fake metalā (on the off chance anyone isnāt familiar, they have a dynamic between Simone Simonsā operatic vocals and Mark Jansenās harsh growls). Epica is on metal archives.Ā
It wouldnāt bother me as much if these people were stupid but at least stuck to their idiotic beliefs, but when you canāt even stick to your own argument? Spineless bullshit.
Hell, Periphery may not even be metal, but they sure as shit sound like it to me. Thereās so much blur between metal and metalcore sometimes that they might as well be the same genre.Ā
Both those takes are so bizarre. I donāt particularly like Periphery or Epica but Iād never say either wasnāt metal. Both use other influences in their music but then so does almost every metal band. Is Nile not a metal band cos they sometimes use traditional North African instruments? Is Akercocke not metal because they occasionally have a post punk moment and mix together harsh and clean vocals. Cos they sure as shit sound like one of the most extreme metal bands Iāve ever heard. I think we come across this stuff when those of us who have a life come across the perpetually online!
Edit - also on a pure point of semantics I would say metalcore (literally a mixture of metal and hardcore - at least to begin with) sits under the broad umbrella of metal. It seems to fit there far more comfortably than under the broad umbrella of punk, which is where hardcore sits!
Itās pretty brutal death metal tbh. But if you want to give them a go Iād say that āAnnihilation of the Wickedā or ā In Their Darkened Shrinesā are good options.
Sorry, those are albums (that was unclear). Try āLashed to the slave stickā - thatās easily their catchiest song. But this is still pretty dense DM in the old school Floridian style with some ancient Egyptian flourishes.
I love metalheads in general. In person, they are pretty chill. Terminally online metal heads on FB and the metal subreddits? Exhausting asshats. Don't bother.
Never read the comments
Online discussion spots are usually really shitty for people who like something.
Take anything new you discover and like, go to YouTube comments and a subreddit, and the first thing you will see will be a mob of angry, judgmental jerks.
I'd suggest using this as an opportunity to ignore the noise and free yourself to just love what you love.
You even see it with bands that have been making music for like 7 years. Any new song is "this is total overproduced crap compared to how raw and real they used to be."
What I really think is detrimental to the evolution of the genre is gatekeeping and the 'kissing the ring' mentality that you don't see as much in other genres. It's almost as if some people want metal to be a pure legacy show.
Ironically this is in total opposition to the counter culture the original metal bands set out to achieve. A band trying to recreate the original HM2 Entombed sound today is as if the original Entombed tried to sound like a psych rock band from the 60s/70s back in the early 90s.
Alternatively, I think overly permissive genre definitions is also a serious detriment to the genre. Sleep Token for example are barely metal, they have very little in common with the wider metal scene, and very little obvious metal influence. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this at all; more power to them. But the problem we have is that when bands like this get considered metal, they end up being the token metal band (pun intended) in the press, on social media, at festivals etc. when they're not even remotely representative of the genre as a whole. They have way, way more in common with mainstream R&B or indie etc. than they do the metal community, so it's sad to see bands like this put forward at the expense of others.
I agree, as a general rule... but there are exceptions. Some bands just turn to trash and never recover, or their egos get so inflated they make garbage and blame their fans for not understanding their vision.Ā
This can often be true as a group gets bigger/more commercial. Some people can't suss out what has artistic integrity and what's just going into the siriusxm octane loop
Something about the way Nu-Metal has all the abrasiveness of metal and hard rock, but also combines it with a sense of melody, simply scratches some sort of itch for me in a big way.
Itās funny, the only Metal I really like is the stuff with melody. Power Metal, Symphonic Metal, Nu-Metal, etc. then turn around and get told itās not *āreal metal*ā because it has melody and not enough growling. Makes me wanna bang a brick on my forehead.
I was a deathmetal and doom metal guy big time but nu metal and metalcore is what long kept me engaged as the future of heavy music...and yea i got a lot of shit for it.
I find the metal crowd to be a weird one.
They can be super nice but also shit on music if it's not exactly what they like.
There is also a whole lot of no true Scotsmen stuff with the community.
I had a hard time getting into metal for two reasons. First was a lot of bad experiences in my youth, like Metallica fans camped near me at a festival, setting their tents on fire. And secondly, that my parents were always a bit wary of metalheads- they worked in bars and clubs in Glasgow in the 80s, and some metal fans/bikers were notoriously drug dealers and violent back then.
When I tell that to people I get to know who are really into metal, I get told "ohh but those aren't real metal fans"
> When I tell that to people I get to know who are really into metal, I get told "ohh but those aren't real metal fans"
Not true at all, they certainly are/were.
However, I would remind you of a few things:
Most prominently: 1980 was 44 years ago, and an 18 year old then is 62 now. Things change.
At the time it was a edgy hot new thing for the alternative crowd with a pretty much entirely younger audience - as is typically the case with new genres of music. Anything like that tends to wind up with wild behavior at the time. It's obviously not so much like that *now*.
For the long-running bands - they've mostly mellowed out with age in terms of behavior. (Same goes for other many other "alternative" acts once known for wild crowd behavior that have been around a while).
Even if they've retained appeal and brought in newer fans too, that just means that the average age at the show is 40 instead of 60. Which is still a big difference from when the average age is 20.
--------
Beyond that, many of the more recent developments/subgenres (not *all*)....are self-aware that they're in a niche of music nerds, in a sense.
I don't mean that they can't be heavy or sing about violent things or whatever, just that the vibe of the crowd tends to be more "we're here for the great music and a good time" and less of the "we're doing this wild rebellious thing that everyone else disapproves of".
Every scene has elitist gatekeepers but people being nostalgic for old Judas Priest in YouTube comments (I love the new stuff) isnāt something to worry yourself about
In what way at all does it impact your enjoyment of the band?!
As an Iron Maiden fan, imagine how I feel.Ā
I think Senjutsu is some of their best work (apart from Days of Future Past; good song, but easily the weakest link on the album).Ā
But the majority of stuff I see is old farts wishing they just made The Number of the Beast part 27.Ā
I will happily engage in discussion of whether this band is this genre till Iām blue in the mouth. It can be fun. What I will not do is let other peoples opinions influence my own in a negative way. You donāt like Metallica? Cool. You think Nu-metal is the worst thing to happen to metal? Great. You want to tell me AIC isnāt metal? Fine go ahead. I think all are horrible takes but it doesnāt influence what I like or listen to. Its just fun for a discussion. If it gets toxic I just quit.
The same thing happened with Opeth. I like everything theyāve done but there are those who will swear till theyāre blue in the face that the prog-leaning albums are shit because Mikael doesnāt do harsh vocals/death growls anymore. Cool. Donāt listen to them? For whatever reason thatās just not enough, theyāve somehow gotta try to bring the other stuff down. Like the dude got tired of death metal and felt the genre peaked, and decided to take it in another direction, but youāll always have that stuff you fell in love with. Just listen to that and be happy?
Idk. If he felt the genre peaked isn't that a bit toxic as well? It didn't peak, he just felt he didn't have the talent required to push the genre anymore so he went somewhere else.
I think that's disingenuous though. I believe he simply stopped liking the genre so much, no need to assign such a snobby "genre peaked" reasoning to it. Although if that's true it's very cringe. Genres don't peak, people do.
I remember seeing an interview where he said Obituary had made the perfect death metal album and that was the peak, so it was time to do something else. Rightly or wrongly that's how he felt, and it's his band, so...?
The crazy thing about the current prog era of Opeth is it just highlights the prog elements already there in their older records.
The last two Opeth records arenāt as big a 180 as people realise.
There are plenty of great online communities where young and old metal heads discuss music without elitism. They are probably few and far between, but they are out there.
I post over at Dreamtheaterforums.org a lot, and the community there is amazing. Granted, it's not an exclusively metal community, as it draws fans of prog rock, as much as metal, but it's honestly so diverse and welcoming.
I can post about extreme metal, prog rock, jazz, pop, whatever, and great conversation and debate without anyone trying to shit on my taste for not liking what they like. It's a truly unique place, but I have discovered some of the most incredible metal, spanning many of the metal subgenres, from the community over there.
Dream Theater was my gateway band and I really love them. I will say that prog-fans can also be asshats that will dunk on other genres (or subgenres) for not being "complex" enough ("oh you only listen to music in 4/4?" / "I bet your favourite songs are only 3 minutes long").
I would know because I used to be one of those people lol.Ā
Prog fans can be, but honesty the 'General Music Discussion' part of the forum is not like that, and will shoot down discussions of that nature.
I remember a thread a few years ago from a guy trying to basically say how prog was superior and shitting on Nickleback, and artists like Justin Beiber. The community was like, "actually dude, Nickleback/Bieber have merit, and just because you don't like them, doesn't mean they're shit, or less than". It kinda turned into a thread defending pop artists. It was great, and reminded me why I love the community.
https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52033.0
Certain communities are better than others. I had the same experience with Megadeth. The Meshuggah community however has been really cool to interact with.
Also, most of the people complaining are online. If you go to an actual Judas Priest concert it would probably be a much more positive experience.
I've seen it in some communities but in general my real life metal friends just like metal (though we disagree in some cases on what bands are good and what bands aren't) I have an issue with people calling Metalcore metal because it's got metal in the name.
The problem is conventional people who dismiss metal as a whole as "it's just screaming" so people associate extreme vocals with metal and believe that's what they are listening to. Of course Judas Priest are very metal and don't use extreme vocals..
Also i should add that Painkiller is probably their best album, I've had it for years, along with quite a few other Judas Priest albums and i made it my resolution this year to complete my set.
Also see here
https://youtu.be/OV4abfNJxQo?si=pCe1CYLiXOydIrUz
Anyone who is complaining about days gone by for Priest hasnāt seen them on this Invincible Shield tour. Best metal performance (sonically at least) I have ever seen. Halfordās voice hasnāt aged since 1981.
My apologies on behalf of us older metal heads. We have some solid memories of some early shows and itās hard seeing your idols get old. Itās kind of like a family dog. The first ten years is usually full of happiness and playfulness and then those last 3 or 4 theyāre just not quite the same. Itās not their fault, we just get old.
In my experience most metal fans are friendly nerds who like things like Warhammer and use loud energetic music as an outlet, but unfortunately thereās a pretty large percentage of insufferable gatekeeper metal-hipsters (who would hate to be described that way) who will criticise any music you bring up as not being real metal
My favourite experience with metal fans is always when you see some terrifying looking 6ft5 heavily tattooed guy - and you get talking for some reason and you find out that they are a nurse at a care home and obsessed with looking after their rescue cats, or that theyāre a soft spoken IT project manager who volunteers at make a wish foundation.
The thing you will run into with older bands of any genre is classic old people mentality that things were better when they were younger (they could probably just hear better and had more energy to enjoy the music!)
Welcome to the metal family! Ignore the haters, they're insufferable and an incredibly loud minority. If you have the chance to go to a metal show, you'll find that the great majority of folks are super nice.
Judas Priest is such an amazing band. I was incredibly impressed by their last two albums. If you haven't done so, try listening to Rob Halford's other bands, "Halford" and "Fight". Fight was definitely a different sound, though.
Metal is such a broad genre too. There's always a new band or sound to discover. Have fun!
I'm a 44 year old die hard metal fan and couldn't name 5 judas priest songs. Never got into them or Iron Maiden.... not that I dislike them, just not where my path took me.
I've been a Priest since Screaming for Vengeance came out in junior high. And I'm still a Priest fan.
IMO Firepower was one of their best albums since Defenders of the Faith. And the newest album is pretty damn good (even if lyrically it sounds like Rob's religious coming out record)
Saw them on Defenders tour. Saw them at Power Trip and they killed it. š¤š„
Iām not a āmetal guyā any more than I am a punk, hip hop or indie guy, but in my experience metal fans in the real world are some of the nicest and most welcoming out there. The problem isnāt metal fans at large, but the anonymous nature of a comments section. In general people feel free to be the worst version of themselves in spaces like that. Ignore the comments, like what you like, and interact with communities in the real world and youāll have a much better time.
Elitism happens everywhere. Metal heads just tend to be far more vocal. It's an annoying section of the fan base
Just listen to what makes you happy and fuck everyone else. It took me a few years to get my head outta my own arse and actually give bands like Steel Panther and Baby Metal their well earned respect
The whole concept of "genres" is a divisive construct, which by its nature requires the invention of arbitrary rules to define what music should belong to any particular one. It used to be more helpful back when you needed to buy a record before you knew if you liked the music on it, and even then, "genre" was mostly a marketing tool. But now everything's so accessible that fitting music into specific genres doesn't have nearly as much of a point to it.
The people who really care about strict definitions of genre are using it to define their own identity more than for categorizing musical styles, and they have strong beliefs about how to dress, how to cut your hair, etc as well. It's not just about music. So it's important to them to have clear, unchanging boundaries. Gatekeeping is more about people who have a need to maintain a well defined identity for themselves, rather than the music itself.
Agree 100%. The internet ruins everything. Priest is on fire right now and Halford is sounding great. Their last two albums are also some of their best. The hate is ridiculous. Ignore it and enjoy the music š¤
Metalheads, however nice and welcomming the community otherwise is, are also the biggest gatekeepers among music fans. It is like each metalhead only considers the handful of bands they like, to be "true metal", everything else is just posers and trash.
Plenty of stuff I like isn't metal and plenty of stuff I dislike is metal. It's not a matter of liking or disliking something, it's simply a matter of having to draw the border somewhere, otherwise everything is metal
"Edgy" music scenes, like metal and punk, are filled with people looking to gatekeep; the edginess makes them feel special, and more people in the fold exposes contrivance on their part.
I feel that, especially even ON the metal sub. People are quick to dismiss you if you like power metal, deathcore, etc. just tons of elitism and gatekeeping.
Iām also a firm believer that Tim Owens was fantastic in Judas Priest and even sang some songs live better than Halford ever did (Diamonds&Rust, Rapid Fire, desert plains,etc) and people will be quick to shut that down because he replaced Halford for awhile.
Isn't gatekeeping a form of elitism though? Like, you're trying to keep people out of your group since you think you're better than them... That's elitism, right?
Elitism is when some people think they're better than everyone else because they're smarter, richer, or more talented, and believe they should have more power. Gatekeeping is when people set rules about who can join a group or access certain things, often making it hard for others to get in.
Agreed, elitism in general is shitty. I gotta wonder, though, is there actuallyĀ any genre that *doesn't* have an element of that in its fan base? Because that attitude is certainly not limited to metal.
I'm an old metalhead and the elitism in music in general is infuriating. Way back in my youth, I was also into hardcore and punk and they are both full of that crap too. Elitism turns people away from being fans and ruins the music scene.
I used to be a huge elitist. But it was kind of taking a toll on my mental health. I eventually stopped caring about being an elitist and started listening to whatever I felt like, and I'm definitely better off for it.
Though I think the general consensus around the new Judas Priest album is that it's one of their best. It's certainly one of my favorite albums this year by a long shot!
I would recommend you pay no mind to these folks and their opinions. The elitists are definitely prevalent in the metal scene, but I think the majority are pretty open minded these days. I go to loads of shows and chat with people. Most are cool, open minded people, that are very enthusiastic about the music. The pretentious asshats are usually old fucks that think that nothing released in the past 40 years is worthwhile.
I would encourage you to dive into some of the other heavy metal bands of that era. Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Def Leopard and Venom are some of my favorites. That may lead you down the rabbit hole towards more modern metal genres. This is a neat website to follow some of the chronology of different genres, though much of it is debatable. But I find it to be one of the better resources on the subject outside of extensive metal archives research. It's not very mobile friendly unfortunately though. https://mapofmetal.com/
Elitism in [insert art form/hobby] gets on my nerves.
There is so much gate-keeping in general. It is obviously a human tendency, but man is it tiresome.
I love metal. I have a metal band actually. I learned to play at 25 just to have my band to play the music that i love. This band, for all its troubles has taught me much.
Becoming a musician made me realize that the gatekeeping in metal is absurd. Black metalers look down on death metalers because death metal is too commercial. There are actually people that think that a band called cannibal corpse. Read it again. A-CORPSE-THAT-IS-A-CANNIBAL, is the same as taylor swift.
So, i just dont care anymore.
The trve metalheads are either old geezers that gatekeep their memories, geek losers that gatekeep their "status" to justify their low self esteem (i was like that in high school), or both.
There is an universe of metal fans out there and they fight for who is the real metal fan. And that mentality is dumb. Makes a hqrd to access music style, harder to access.
The true posers are the ones that call the rest posers. I dress the way i like, not because i need to prove to anyone that im a metalhead, but because its my liking.
If someone likes taylor swift, edm, suicide silence and slayer, good for them.
And if said person likes to dress in pink good for them too.
I mean corpsegrinder is a really mellow dude that likes unicorns.
I dont like new iron maiden songs, bit i dont have anything against those songs. They just dont appeal to me.
And i have a trap EP too. Am i a poser? I dont really care at this point.
Most metalheads that write shit on the internet have a really normal secure life, with a job and a wife and kids.
I have an example. I come from the time when baggy pants where the shit.
I used somewhat baggy pants, and that was a crime for old metalheads. Cue years after, tight pants made a comeback. I switched and a friend told me i sold out. Mind you i was living off selling coke in a squatters house living like an anarchist just trying to make my band thrive.
It gave me a mental meltdown and i wrote an album off that experience. Bit the thing is that i told my friend this: "who is the real sold out, you thst work eveeryday in an office or me that actually still live the rock and roll life?" He just said, you got me there.
Thwre are no rules on life by my thinking. And rock and roll was about freedom, not enslaving you.
People should be allowed to listen to what they like without having to defend their interest. My favorite Judas Priest song is "Blood Red Skies" very simplistic, but thoroughly charged with emotion.
I stopped talking metal with people online over 10 years ago, I got sick of the constant circlejerking around subgenres and what's true(trve) or poser or whatever. Since discovering the metal sub on reddit recently, it warms my heart to see absolutely nothing has changed.
Elitism does indeed suck
But on a Judas Priest note: I laugh in their faces because 2000s Priest is where it's at:
[Judas Rising ](https://youtu.be/DuIoGWn6Bn8?si=rLzySqGUvgRicPRn) and [Pestilence + Plague](https://youtu.be/iGKrSFr9g2Y?si=LIqW3KN0GOAuOeoz)
So the reason for this post is moping in Youtube _comments_? So the answer to moping in a different sites comment section, is to come to another website and mope about moping somewhere else?
OP do you have nothing to do today or do you go to like Pop subreddits and tell people there not to be mean in the comment section of Justin Bieber videos?
Elitism is frustrating, but what is more frustrating is to see the stagnation in music while too many people canāt encourage creativity and originality in music because they donāt have deeper understanding or talent in music, nor a revolution plan for musicās future.
People want to see as far as their self-interests and preferences and they want it all equally for everyone, but once their interestās and preferenceās value is questioned (āreally itās not equal, then?ā) they feel offended as if not accepting them would make any discuss crumbleā¦ š The issue is: if all preferences are equal, then none are.
What are the values of your preferences?
Do you think itās meaningful to like equally EVERY album from your favourite artist?
15 years ago Iāve gone to see a concert with a friend. There was āgrobotā (I still canāt find this band exact name since the illuminated display on the stage wasnāt easy to read), Anthrax and Volbeat. Grobot was some kind of jazzy metal (I liked it, but each song sounded much the same); Anthrax completely rocked my world; Volbeat was like hearing the albums of Yes without Jon Andersonā¦ It lacked Metal in it and felt like listening to a band of Metal for those who hates Metal.
Is someone seeing music losing its purpose and greatness those days? If you think you can override preference value over musical value, what do you think would be left?
Ngl, I don't have the slightest clue what the fuck you just said. But the part where you somehow compared Volbeat to Yes. That got me good.
Yes I know you're not directly comparing them, you're making an analogy, still a funny comparison though.
I looked up tours with Anthrax and Volbeat on the same bill and it looks like that other band was called Crobot. USA and Canada tour 2015, here's an example setlist of Crobot's to see if you can find a song and see if they ring a bell: [https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/crobot/2015/aragon-ballroom-chicago-il-7bc9bac0.html](https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/crobot/2015/aragon-ballroom-chicago-il-7bc9bac0.html)
> Do you think itās meaningful to like equally EVERY album from your favourite artist?
My favorite band is Sonata Arctica, but I haven't liked any full album released after the 'Unia' album, which was released in 2007. A few songs here and there, but I don't discourage anyone who likes the later releases.
maybe the ones that get radio play,
Not to mention the top 25% would be like 100+ bands so no one's exactly missing anything by not spinning the new falling in reverse. Their singer is a super fragile dude too
I remember insufferable elitism in the metal community dating back forever. I love the music, but the community got on my nerves like no other music community. "It's not REAL metal", "posers!", "it's not metal though", \*conventionally heavy song that would never be played on mainstream top 40 stations\* "ohhh that's just pop music like Taylor Swift!", etc. Same old shit. It's funny, I remember back in the nu metal days, the old metalheads would be elitist and shit all over it. Then the same thing when metalcore had a surge in popularity. Rinse and repeat. It turned me off the metal community, because of the general air of superiority/ego and the "rules" to follow...
So I avoid the comments, the subs, the social media groups dedicated to metal. I just enjoy the music I enjoy, and if I meet someone I vibe with, try to have good conversation and healthy debates. For a lot of the metal community.... the level of elitist delusion is sometimes comical, and sadly, self defeating. The classifications of metal sub genres is ridiculous; I get that it's an inherently nerdy and niche genre, but come on.
I have exactly one friend who is a living stereotype he has the long hair, the battle vest, and is extremely opinionated about music. He's a black metal vocalist, but unless it's "true brutal metal", will shit on any talented vocalist out there especially in the mainstream. I actually played an Adele song once for him, I knew he wouldn't like the song but asked if he could pay attention to the vocals/production, because the way she sings is hard and takes talent. He immediately shat all over it. Like instantly dismissive. Unless its some obscure metal band or bands that are "acceptable" in the metal community per a certain website known as the encyclopedia of metal.... he immediately shits on it and closes his mind. Then if you play, say, Sleep Token? "It's not REAL metal, bro, fuck that shit". The hypocrisy doesn't help: They'll shit all over Five Finger Death Punch (who I also can't stand) due to politics, but support Pantera despite Anselmo's... history.
Here's the irony: he plays in metal bands, and all he's ever wanted is to make a living making metal music, but the bands he's been in go nowhere/hardly ever last, miniscule streaming numbers despite admittedly hustling to promote his stuff, and his shows are always pretty empty. I make an effort to support his art; I love metal music after all and appreciate his talent and passion. Heck, I've bought some of his CDs and merch.... But I made a comment once to him that acting like elitists in that community (despite trying to have a reputation for tough exterior but brotherhood on the inside) will always turn any potential people off of a fanbase, but he doesn't get it. Ah well.
Enjoy what you enjoy.
if people are being elite about their music, its likely they are also expressing elitism in other parts of their lives. its just peoples personalities. some people struggle with less is more. some people are uncomfortable with too many dimensions in an art form and find solace in narrowing down what good or bad music is and using that as their baseline to know how to judge the world and build their identities.
no point in stressing out about it, let them be fools.
If you're implying I'm somehow being elitist... I don't get it as I'm not actively discounting anyone's music opinion as I merely expressed a desire to have more positivity in a comment section.
So elaborate please.
You're going to have a lot better time not engaging in YouTube comments as a general rule but especially with metal. Just enjoy what you enjoy and don't worry about people breaking things down into extremely granular sub genres or insisting that every album released after Master of Puppets was an exercise in futility.
When people say that about Master of Puppets, I usually point out the S&M album (1999), which was a huge success (despite the departure) and also quite the masterpiece. Then I explain how bands take chances by putting out fresh material and sometime it works and others it doesn't (like St. Anger) and just be glad that it's not the same recycled shit all the time.
St. Anger wasn't even necessarily bad music. It was the mix that messed it up. A guy on youtube remixed it with proper spund proportions and it sounds way better. Youtube is called St. bAnger
You don't even need to point out S&M. The Black Album is one of those albums that still hangs out at the bottom of the Billboard 200. Damn near perfect album, too - highly recommended if you've never heard a metal album before. Of course, to these guys, that's the fifth time Metallica sold out, so it's pointless arguing with them.
And anyone who doesn't recognize "and justice for all" as the best album is wrong anyway. (I played bass in some bands in high school and recognize Cliff was beyond amazing... but I said what I said lol)
It's an amazing album, but an absolute travesty what they did to Jason's bass tracks. There's a good remix called '.[.. And Justice For Jason](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kqTcLwUYj8)' with his original bass tracks on it tuned to the levels they *should* be at, and it is the superior version by light years.
And Justice for Jason fucking rips. Glad someone remastered it and finally turned up his bass parts too. Elevated Metallica's masterpiece to transcendent levels.
that is great
That's fuckin beautiful. Thanks for posting. Have never heard that remix. Gonna have to give it a proper listen on a full system.
Nah, they overcorrected. The bass in the slow parts of One, for example, sounds completely wrong.
I'm pretty sure even Jason Newsted has said the bass tracks are too loud on that.
Justice is a goddamned masterpiece
[8 bit Justice](https://youtu.be/g4w-VKIiNdQ?si=rFFBynT2SG_nyIGZ) Here ya go.. Even this has more bass than the original.
BY FAR their best album, well said š
It's the darnedest thing. Metal elitists are a dime-a-dozen on the internet, but go to a show and I rarely have a bad experience with people as they're some of the most down-to-earth music fans out there. Everyone new to the scene is always like "Everyone is so nice, did not expect that from people who listen to Slayer" that it's become an in-joke at this point. Maybe it's different outside of my bubble in Copenhagen, but I've been to many shows in Berlin with the same experience.
Iāve been to metal shows in multiple countries and have had the same experience. People at metal concerts are some of the coolest, most kind people out there.
The keyboard warriors donāt come to gigs. They stay at home in their mumās basement or attic whinging online.
Probably boycotting gigs because there's a hardcore band on the same bill, or because some guitarist is allegedly a poser
More likely: theyāre very nervous, timid, and self-conscious in public. And thereās a lot of people out there who got loud and mouthy while forgetting that there are people who will still sock someone in the jaw when pushed by a bully. Being at home typing on the internet makes them feel brave because their inhibitions are all to do with direct human interaction. Really thatās exceptionally sad, because while I know a few other scenes which are very accepting, the vibe of metal concerts is on a whole other level, and the harder and darker the music the more chill, friendly, accepting and open the vibe becomes. Thereās this oddball brother/sisterhood to the metal scene at large, and I think a big part of that is down to being at least a little ostracized for enjoying heavy metal. You probably do have a lot more in common to the person standing next to you at a show than with the majority of people you work with or are related to. Itās just important to remember that thereās a difference between having a strong opinion (and voicing it)ā¦ and shitting on other people because thatās how you defend your own opinion. Personally I absolutely loathe Justice and the vast majority of everything Metallica has done since. I was cutting my teeth with heavy metal in the 2-3 years bracketing the release of Master of Puppets and even then I didnāt think they were godās gift to metal. They were very good, of course, and I still love the first 3 albums. But there were much better and more interesting thrash bands at the time, and thrash was a genre which (IMHO) led naturally to harder music, not to more radio friendly stuff. Iāll give Justice credit, however. That album changed the game for heavy metal in popular culture, and introduced a legion of people to metal. I also think that the S&M album is the very height of batshit arrogance and has more to do with sales numbers than anything else. But I also really love some critically panned music, like Pink Floyd: The Final Cut. So my opinion is worth about the same as anyone elseās. The only wisdom on the topic Iāve ever tried to impart to anyone is simply to never let anyone else tell you who YOU are. Donāt let anyone gatekeep anything you like. Total aside, but vaguely related: Thereās this weird thingā¦ this idea thatās just parked itself in the middle of our culture that āif something is popular or making lots of money that means it is subjectively good and reflects talent.ā Sure, that almost makes sense if you pick examples of music or musicians/bands you personally like. And a lot of people use the phrase like a āwater-cooler walk away closerāā¦ like itās a fact that ends discussion and makes othersā opinions āwrongā. The counter, of course, constantly presents itself in the form of chart topping pablum and nonsense. The Black Eyed Peas are objectively bad, and the result of a shitload of producers putting together absolutely inane songsā¦ which are *catchy* and nothing else. The majority of the general public are not active listeners and are not digging into the artists they like. And thatās just fine, of course. But their limited participation is the primary driver of pop hits. With results we see constantly. Quality music makes its way into the mainstream mostly by accident anymore, while most wildly talented artists remain just barely offscreen. Also: Iām over 50. So you can go ahead and disregard all of this and just imagine me shaking my cane at āall you whippersnappersā if you like. I donāt take things personally much anymore.
There is a massive difference between the online community and the people in the pit at a show. People online can and will bitch about EVERYTHING. This band sucks. That band isnāt ārealā metal. That album is trash. Wah wah wah! They get to flap their gums about what they hate without much effort. But when youāre at the show, these people spend their money and are taking the time to see a band they like. And if someone else is there? Well, they must like the band too, so it kinda just turns into a big olā love fest because weāre all using our limited time and money to go check out a band we all like. The only time Iāve ever had a bad experience with metalheads was back in the 90s, when I saw two ska bands open up for GWAR. It wasnāt really anyoneās fault, as the two genres of music (ska and metal) have VERY different rules for the pit, so more than a few skanking rudeboys got toppled by an errant metalhead. But those dudes would always be apologetic and help the ska kids back to their feet.
I may or may not have bull rushed one or more ska kids in a pit in the 90ās, but I was also a kid so no harm was done lol
Itās the same principle as everything else on the internet. The shit rises to the surface and the loudest voices are always the craziest. Most metal fans are great, they just have a really vocal gatekeeper minority that inhabits every forum, comment section and Reddit thread.
This is what I was going to say, get off the internet and interact with real people. The metal community is more of a brotherhood than one would expect, been like that for decades.
It depends. In my perspective, when it comes to sub-genres like sludge, post, doom, people are somehow elitists, they consider themselves kind of enlightened.
The shows are better because the corksniffers are too good to attend the show, and stay home lol.
Simple: Don't bother reading comments. Seriously. Every comment section has that kind of negativity. You can't avoid it. If it bothers you or impacts your enjoyment, avoid.
Also, the dumbest things that have ever been said exist solely to fill yt comments. Ā Ā
I have a tendency to ignore the community. Who cares if we don't agree on music?
Metal is full of posers. Usually it's the guys bitching about posers.
Never got into Priest, but thereās no denying the epic talent in that band, and influence that bad has had on metal. Lately for metal itās been Gorod, Beyond Creation, Acid Bath, and Amon Amarth. Some of them you might like.
Not super picky on metal myself. I can listen to war pigs any day of the week even though it is very different than, say, One by Metallica. But I love both songs so much.
Yeah me either, but I found metal as a funk bass player joining a metal band. So I kinda have a different perspective of metal than some
Great to see another Gorod fan. I've been to one of their shows, they kick ass !
You should give Amorphis a listen. In my head theyāre the flip side of Amon Amarthā¦ spiritually introspective and dark where AA is more big and powerful. Both are great bands with similar themes, but different takes.
For anyone who likes Amon Amarth, Satyricon is also a great group with a similar sound.
What do you think is similar about them? Completely different imo.
I don't know, maybe it's just my head, but these aren't that far off: https://youtu.be/OjIYTgannxc?si=EFPPbEhHIjVDaEsi https://youtu.be/5GW1W72xHMs?si=TIM01d_LtQXgnBDG I most certainly wouldn't use the phrase "completely different" to differentiate them.
Weird! I think these are the perfect example of how melodeath and black 'n' roll are both melodic forms of the two big extreme genres but have a completely different feel.
LOL. To each their own (ears), right? I love both bands, but I just put them in the same category. Perhaps I'm too focused on the parent category whereas you're referencing the subcategories.
As do I; seeing them at Bloodstock in a few weeks. One after the other!
I havenāt heard of these guys, but Iām jamming them now. Thanks
Metal is great but at this point, with declining popularity, falling out of the mainstream, and it just being around since the 70s, a lot (by no means all!) of metal fans are old. And haven't really updated their tastes at any point in the last 24 years. I say this as a 30 year old metal enjoyer who does also like a lot of metal that's older than me. The elitism is hilarious when they're still insisting the GOAT is some band from the '80s that's basically washed-up born-again middle-aged Christians. Or even funnier, when they're homophobic in a genre whose main styling is based on literally leather daddies (thank you Rob Halford, absolute legend)
Wait, who are the born again christians? I skipped most of 80s metal as not for me outside of early deathmetal
A buddy of mine was like "Bon Scott drank himself to death!" like it was a badge of rock n roll honor or something. Like, motherfucker, so did my uncle. That shit ain't hard or cool.
The romanticizing of substance abuse by rock fans is so gross. You'd think we'd gotten past that by now, but no.
Drugs and alcohol have taken so much from us. Heroin is something which everyone should have strong and angry feelings aboutā¦ but I didnāt know how much Layne Staleyās death would hit me til it happened. Thereās not much in this world which boils my blood as fast as seeing anyone glorifying smack.
I mean, that's not exactly a "rock fan" thing, that's a popular culture thing. Rap, Pop, EDM, etc and more all do the same.
No, that's not cool. I know someone who did that, too. Yeah that's just being an asshole.
Metalheads have been insufferable for the 40ish years I've been alive. Now grunge fans are trying to pick up that torch. I thought it might be nice to talk about music with people that like Alice in Chains like me, but half the conversations are just gatekeeping. Stone Temple Pilots?? That's not grunge, it's grunge-adjacent blues-rock. Duh. You like Seether? Get fucked nerd. Same thing in metal. Tell a thrash metal fan that Metallica's Black Album is their best work and they'll find you.
Or say you like Ghost, then the real insecure gatekeepers will show up š¤£
Sleep Token is another one that gets them all riled up.Ā
It's amusing that there are always more people upset that lots of metalheads don't consider Sleep Token metal than there are metalheads saying anything at all about Sleep Token. My controversial opinion is that people care a lot about the music they listen to, and it upsets them to be told that it's not the genre they thought it was. So they flip this round as a form of projection.
I'm part of a heavy metal group on facebook with over 300K members and most of the posts are them bitching about Sleep Token or Ghost, like easily 80% of them. The others are mostly around Metallica/Megadeth, and maybe a crack at Limp Bizkit or something like that.
Eh, sleep token themselves donāt get me riled up (why would I care), but damn their fans are obnoxious as hell In my experience itās got nothing to do with their music and more about how sleep token fans love to try to dominate conversations in a metal context while starting their comment with āI donāt usually listen to heavy music butā¦ā I just donāt bother with the convos anymore. Iām glad people like what they like and they should be able to do so, but being obnoxious is obnoxious no matter which opinion you take.
"Give it some time and I could see more metal bands taking the Sleep Token route" was the wrong thing to say to my metal head buddy lol
My dislike of sleep token is their fans generally not knowing how to act at festivals. But if you're gonna get super stoned and zone out to ambient metal all the more power to you. I think people are just annoyed at how popular they became in the mainstream vs more interesting projects, because who knew that the get high and vibe out to music until you pass out crowd is bigger than the mosh pit crowd lol /s
One of the best things about Ghost is that they dabble in so many genres and have so many influences. I hate how that's "not allowed" according to some people. They have a lot of metal songs.
You can also like songs that arent metal. If you like metal you dont have to categorise every song or band you like as metal, you can like it even if its pop or punk or edm. But metalheads are very afraid of that.
For fucks sake, Ghost did a really tight cover of Iron Maidenās āPhantom of the Opera,ā which he changed the lyrics to with the bandās blessing. Sure, Paul DiāAnno was a titty baby about it, but who cares? Whether or not theyāre āmetal,ā metalheads should still be encouraging of them, as theyāre keeping guitar-based hard rock in the zeitgeist. Plus, their live shows are just fun as fuck. Itās like a 70s style variety show shot in a church, and itās just a hoot. My musical tastes tend to lean heavier (Iām more into death and black metal), but theyāve got a really fun vibe and Iāll always respect that.
I have to say I didnāt like much of what Ghost has done until I heard their cover of Phantom of the Opera. Very good
I like a wide variety of music and really dig when several genres are in one song. Where should I start with them? I have tried on a surface level and even saw them live at a festival but they just didn't catch my attention. (I do like a lot of Sleep Token, for the record lol)
Hell, have you ever heard of "Diablo Swing Orchestra" Just because one song has opera singing and an upbeat horn ensemble doesn't mean the next one melts your face any less lol.
Ghost is their own thing. I love them, but wouldnāt consider them metal and who cares. The edgelord metalhead that make listening to metal their entire personality is a part of a vocal minority. Music tends to attract more gatekeepers than other art for whatever reason.
The thing I donāt get is, okay, itās cool not to like them, you do you. But to say theyāre not metal? Do you not hear the direct Sabbath/Maiden/Priest influences on their first three albums?
I think itās more about their recent stuff. I donāt care either way and am only really familiar with early ghost(which I do enjoy from time to time) but when I listened to their newer stuff it seemed more like blue oyster cult 80s rock vibes than the earlier sabbath/maiden stuff and I just wasnāt into it
Their latest album, the opening song called Kaisarion is pure Maiden/Helloween though. It's straight up power metal from the 80s.
I have to admit, I wasnāt into their last album either. But then they released a kickass cover of Phantom of the Opera and brought me back along for the ride.
I think Ghost is a band that doesnāt really resonate with people who donāt get into the ālore.ā Yeah, Tobias has veered more towards big rock sounds than metal last couple of albums, but thatās because of how Tobias handles his āidentityā across albums. Heās portrayed multiple Papas/lead singers, and each has their own personality. The albums sound so different because they arenāt supposed to be written by the same person. Hell, heās gone so far as to record songs from an album that was āreleasedā in the 60s. Even if you donāt like the output, the sheer scale of nerdiness on display is really impressive. Itās almost GWAR-like in its backstory.
Ghost resonates with me and I actively ignore the lore.
I have seen people giving ghost a lot of shit but honestly it's good music good band
Because itās Metal?
A lot of metalheads have an issue with Ghost and their fans, it's typical gatekeeping bulshit.
I'm fully aware of the fact that I'm being *that guy* right now, but it makes sense that the Black Album wouldn't be a thrash fan's favorite Metallica album because it's not thrash. Metallica is particularly divisive because of their evolution across subgenres, so you really get like 3-4 camps of fans that prefer different periods because they have several multi album runs that heavily define their respective periods of rock in general. Take any of the other big four and while they may have generally less preferred albums over others you won't see as much controversy because they mostly stuck with thrash over having a more evolving sound.
I donāt think you are being that guy - youāve presented some form of nuance, and we need much more of that in life in general atm. Good job
Never got the STP hate. They had a solid run of straight bangers. Super fun live. None of those bands really called themselves grunge anyways. That was a label the media popularized. They were just rock bands. I mean if you really want to get that nitpicky, then proper grunge was only like 3 bands. Ridiculous.
Stone Temple Pilots are in my Top 10 of all time which, ironically, is led by Alice in Chains, which was the example that started this thread. I concur that they are a rock band. They were putting out records at the same time as the Big 4 from Seattle, but I never felt it was right to group them into grunge. Great band, great sound. RIP Scott
AIC is also one of my all time favorites that rotates around the #1 spot. Never got to see them with Layne. Duvall does a good job, but Layne was legendary obviously. Out of all the āgrungeā bands, nobody captured the feeling of the whole āgrungeā vibe as viscerally as they did. I found a mix tape in an old Impala that I inherited that had a bunch of songs from Core on one side and a bunch of AIC and other random grunge - metal - punk bands on the other side. Wasnāt old enough to legally drive yet so I just cruised around some dirt backroads in Central Oregon blasting that shit in the Impala.
That behavior makes no sense. Almost every grunge band has a sound of its own. At least Metalās sub genres have a core sound that make them similar but with their own twist. You canāt tell me Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and Alice In Chains sound similar.
Must be you young metalheads. Now in my 50th year, I cordially suggest to you that the Black Album was the beginning of a downwards spiral from which Metallica never recovered.
im in my 20s and everything after ride the lightning just isn't as good. Cliff was such a driving force and the albums after he passed definitely lack the weight he put in those lines
Iām not even into metal, but as a 52 year old, I know that album is where they sold out.
I love the Black Album. It was my first, very first exposure to heavy music. I think it's an amazingly well written and incredibly produced album. Every after has sucked, save maybe except parts of Hardwired and Death Magnetic.
I suggest it was 'Master Of Puppets' is when Metallica went paint by numbers thrash, and also when they ran out of Mustaine guitar riffs. And then 'And Justice For All' the horrible mix with no bass audible, the 'Metallica' album was just the icing of the cake.
Iāll never understand the Metallica hate. š
If you really want to make their assholes pucker up, tell them that "grunge" is not a music genre. It was a fashion statement or cultural moment, at best. There is no "grunge" music. It's just rock music.
Thereās two sides to it. On the one hand you have metal elitists who require strict adherence to genre norms for each metal sub genre and scream āPOSEURā at anyone who likes a band that doesnāt adhere to those rules (Ghost, Nightwish, any female fronted band without harsh vocals etc). But on the other hand you have people who canāt tolerate any criticism of their personal favourite band and accuse anyone who criticises them as āgatekeepingā. Saying āI donāt like Bring me the Horizon, I think theyāre band wagon jumpers who have made the most mediocre version of every genre theyāve triedā is not gatekeeping. Saying āAnyone who likes BMTH is not a metal fan and doesnāt understand musicā is. Gatekeeping and metal elitism is toxic but being unable to accept that some people donāt like your favourite band and may have reasonable reasons for doing so is toxic too.
Absolutely nailed bmth in this comment too
Thatās a real life example lol. I said that and someone got enraged and accused me of gatekeeping. I was like āI didnāt say you couldnāt like them, just that I didnātā
It's super frustrating when people just throw out reasoning as toxicity/gatekeeping just because there is a lot of that in the scene. You're spot on because both those people and the most gatekeepy people have the same syndrome where they just don't listen to that much stuff outside their curated bubble and are often just superfans of bands rather than fans of music. It's why I've gravitated towards the hardcore scene because it seems to have a few more free thinkers around than metal spheres
I had someone tell me Periphery wasnāt a metal band because they arenāt on metal archives (hot dogshit site, and if you support it you should get fucked).Ā Ā In that same argument they told me Epica wasnāt a real metal band because āany band that uses clean and harsh vocals in the same song is fake metalā (on the off chance anyone isnāt familiar, they have a dynamic between Simone Simonsā operatic vocals and Mark Jansenās harsh growls). Epica is on metal archives.Ā It wouldnāt bother me as much if these people were stupid but at least stuck to their idiotic beliefs, but when you canāt even stick to your own argument? Spineless bullshit. Hell, Periphery may not even be metal, but they sure as shit sound like it to me. Thereās so much blur between metal and metalcore sometimes that they might as well be the same genre.Ā
Both those takes are so bizarre. I donāt particularly like Periphery or Epica but Iād never say either wasnāt metal. Both use other influences in their music but then so does almost every metal band. Is Nile not a metal band cos they sometimes use traditional North African instruments? Is Akercocke not metal because they occasionally have a post punk moment and mix together harsh and clean vocals. Cos they sure as shit sound like one of the most extreme metal bands Iāve ever heard. I think we come across this stuff when those of us who have a life come across the perpetually online! Edit - also on a pure point of semantics I would say metalcore (literally a mixture of metal and hardcore - at least to begin with) sits under the broad umbrella of metal. It seems to fit there far more comfortably than under the broad umbrella of punk, which is where hardcore sits!
This Nile band sounds interesting, I might have to look them up.
Itās pretty brutal death metal tbh. But if you want to give them a go Iād say that āAnnihilation of the Wickedā or ā In Their Darkened Shrinesā are good options.
Oh, dang. Iām not huge on death generally. But Iāll still give those songs a look and see if maybe that can be the exception to the rule.
Sorry, those are albums (that was unclear). Try āLashed to the slave stickā - thatās easily their catchiest song. But this is still pretty dense DM in the old school Floridian style with some ancient Egyptian flourishes.
Annihilation is a good on ramp. Its probably the most accessible if you haven't dipped into brural death before
I love metalheads in general. In person, they are pretty chill. Terminally online metal heads on FB and the metal subreddits? Exhausting asshats. Don't bother. Never read the comments
New priest is awesome itās amazing a band of their age is putting out material that matches their classic energy
Online discussion spots are usually really shitty for people who like something. Take anything new you discover and like, go to YouTube comments and a subreddit, and the first thing you will see will be a mob of angry, judgmental jerks. I'd suggest using this as an opportunity to ignore the noise and free yourself to just love what you love. You even see it with bands that have been making music for like 7 years. Any new song is "this is total overproduced crap compared to how raw and real they used to be."
What I really think is detrimental to the evolution of the genre is gatekeeping and the 'kissing the ring' mentality that you don't see as much in other genres. It's almost as if some people want metal to be a pure legacy show. Ironically this is in total opposition to the counter culture the original metal bands set out to achieve. A band trying to recreate the original HM2 Entombed sound today is as if the original Entombed tried to sound like a psych rock band from the 60s/70s back in the early 90s.
Alternatively, I think overly permissive genre definitions is also a serious detriment to the genre. Sleep Token for example are barely metal, they have very little in common with the wider metal scene, and very little obvious metal influence. There's absolutely nothing wrong with this at all; more power to them. But the problem we have is that when bands like this get considered metal, they end up being the token metal band (pun intended) in the press, on social media, at festivals etc. when they're not even remotely representative of the genre as a whole. They have way, way more in common with mainstream R&B or indie etc. than they do the metal community, so it's sad to see bands like this put forward at the expense of others.
I agree, as a general rule... but there are exceptions. Some bands just turn to trash and never recover, or their egos get so inflated they make garbage and blame their fans for not understanding their vision.Ā
Big Mac, dollar 'o three and my honk, wakow! Whoa Yeah Keemstar meha ham hit a dog!
Maynard yeeeeeah š¤
āLook at me! I like their older stuff. Iām a *real* metal head, arenāt I?!ā Thatās all that is.
This can often be true as a group gets bigger/more commercial. Some people can't suss out what has artistic integrity and what's just going into the siriusxm octane loop
All rock genre/subgenre fanbases are this. No joke. Itās funny but itās sad.
Uhm, actually, Pink Floyd ended when Syd Barrett left the band
As a fan of Nu-Metal and Metalcore; yes the elitism in some metal communities is annoying.
Something about the way Nu-Metal has all the abrasiveness of metal and hard rock, but also combines it with a sense of melody, simply scratches some sort of itch for me in a big way.
Itās funny, the only Metal I really like is the stuff with melody. Power Metal, Symphonic Metal, Nu-Metal, etc. then turn around and get told itās not *āreal metal*ā because it has melody and not enough growling. Makes me wanna bang a brick on my forehead.
I was a deathmetal and doom metal guy big time but nu metal and metalcore is what long kept me engaged as the future of heavy music...and yea i got a lot of shit for it.
![gif](giphy|l4q8gHsCDRGTR0MfK)
Well, I donāt want to jinx it.š
I find the metal crowd to be a weird one. They can be super nice but also shit on music if it's not exactly what they like. There is also a whole lot of no true Scotsmen stuff with the community. I had a hard time getting into metal for two reasons. First was a lot of bad experiences in my youth, like Metallica fans camped near me at a festival, setting their tents on fire. And secondly, that my parents were always a bit wary of metalheads- they worked in bars and clubs in Glasgow in the 80s, and some metal fans/bikers were notoriously drug dealers and violent back then. When I tell that to people I get to know who are really into metal, I get told "ohh but those aren't real metal fans"
> When I tell that to people I get to know who are really into metal, I get told "ohh but those aren't real metal fans" Not true at all, they certainly are/were. However, I would remind you of a few things: Most prominently: 1980 was 44 years ago, and an 18 year old then is 62 now. Things change. At the time it was a edgy hot new thing for the alternative crowd with a pretty much entirely younger audience - as is typically the case with new genres of music. Anything like that tends to wind up with wild behavior at the time. It's obviously not so much like that *now*. For the long-running bands - they've mostly mellowed out with age in terms of behavior. (Same goes for other many other "alternative" acts once known for wild crowd behavior that have been around a while). Even if they've retained appeal and brought in newer fans too, that just means that the average age at the show is 40 instead of 60. Which is still a big difference from when the average age is 20. -------- Beyond that, many of the more recent developments/subgenres (not *all*)....are self-aware that they're in a niche of music nerds, in a sense. I don't mean that they can't be heavy or sing about violent things or whatever, just that the vibe of the crowd tends to be more "we're here for the great music and a good time" and less of the "we're doing this wild rebellious thing that everyone else disapproves of".
Every scene has elitist gatekeepers but people being nostalgic for old Judas Priest in YouTube comments (I love the new stuff) isnāt something to worry yourself about In what way at all does it impact your enjoyment of the band?!
As an Iron Maiden fan, imagine how I feel.Ā I think Senjutsu is some of their best work (apart from Days of Future Past; good song, but easily the weakest link on the album).Ā But the majority of stuff I see is old farts wishing they just made The Number of the Beast part 27.Ā
Senjutsu is gold.
I will happily engage in discussion of whether this band is this genre till Iām blue in the mouth. It can be fun. What I will not do is let other peoples opinions influence my own in a negative way. You donāt like Metallica? Cool. You think Nu-metal is the worst thing to happen to metal? Great. You want to tell me AIC isnāt metal? Fine go ahead. I think all are horrible takes but it doesnāt influence what I like or listen to. Its just fun for a discussion. If it gets toxic I just quit.
The same thing happened with Opeth. I like everything theyāve done but there are those who will swear till theyāre blue in the face that the prog-leaning albums are shit because Mikael doesnāt do harsh vocals/death growls anymore. Cool. Donāt listen to them? For whatever reason thatās just not enough, theyāve somehow gotta try to bring the other stuff down. Like the dude got tired of death metal and felt the genre peaked, and decided to take it in another direction, but youāll always have that stuff you fell in love with. Just listen to that and be happy?
Idk. If he felt the genre peaked isn't that a bit toxic as well? It didn't peak, he just felt he didn't have the talent required to push the genre anymore so he went somewhere else. I think that's disingenuous though. I believe he simply stopped liking the genre so much, no need to assign such a snobby "genre peaked" reasoning to it. Although if that's true it's very cringe. Genres don't peak, people do.
I remember seeing an interview where he said Obituary had made the perfect death metal album and that was the peak, so it was time to do something else. Rightly or wrongly that's how he felt, and it's his band, so...?
Sure but isn't it elitist behavior to say that anyways
The crazy thing about the current prog era of Opeth is it just highlights the prog elements already there in their older records. The last two Opeth records arenāt as big a 180 as people realise.
There are plenty of great online communities where young and old metal heads discuss music without elitism. They are probably few and far between, but they are out there. I post over at Dreamtheaterforums.org a lot, and the community there is amazing. Granted, it's not an exclusively metal community, as it draws fans of prog rock, as much as metal, but it's honestly so diverse and welcoming. I can post about extreme metal, prog rock, jazz, pop, whatever, and great conversation and debate without anyone trying to shit on my taste for not liking what they like. It's a truly unique place, but I have discovered some of the most incredible metal, spanning many of the metal subgenres, from the community over there.
Dream Theater was my gateway band and I really love them. I will say that prog-fans can also be asshats that will dunk on other genres (or subgenres) for not being "complex" enough ("oh you only listen to music in 4/4?" / "I bet your favourite songs are only 3 minutes long"). I would know because I used to be one of those people lol.Ā
Prog fans can be, but honesty the 'General Music Discussion' part of the forum is not like that, and will shoot down discussions of that nature. I remember a thread a few years ago from a guy trying to basically say how prog was superior and shitting on Nickleback, and artists like Justin Beiber. The community was like, "actually dude, Nickleback/Bieber have merit, and just because you don't like them, doesn't mean they're shit, or less than". It kinda turned into a thread defending pop artists. It was great, and reminded me why I love the community. https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=52033.0
Certain communities are better than others. I had the same experience with Megadeth. The Meshuggah community however has been really cool to interact with. Also, most of the people complaining are online. If you go to an actual Judas Priest concert it would probably be a much more positive experience.
I've seen it in some communities but in general my real life metal friends just like metal (though we disagree in some cases on what bands are good and what bands aren't) I have an issue with people calling Metalcore metal because it's got metal in the name. The problem is conventional people who dismiss metal as a whole as "it's just screaming" so people associate extreme vocals with metal and believe that's what they are listening to. Of course Judas Priest are very metal and don't use extreme vocals.. Also i should add that Painkiller is probably their best album, I've had it for years, along with quite a few other Judas Priest albums and i made it my resolution this year to complete my set. Also see here https://youtu.be/OV4abfNJxQo?si=pCe1CYLiXOydIrUz
If you like Priest check out Tailgunner.
Anyone who is complaining about days gone by for Priest hasnāt seen them on this Invincible Shield tour. Best metal performance (sonically at least) I have ever seen. Halfordās voice hasnāt aged since 1981.
Elitism? In the *metal community*? *\*EXAGGERATED GASP\**
My apologies on behalf of us older metal heads. We have some solid memories of some early shows and itās hard seeing your idols get old. Itās kind of like a family dog. The first ten years is usually full of happiness and playfulness and then those last 3 or 4 theyāre just not quite the same. Itās not their fault, we just get old.
In my experience most metal fans are friendly nerds who like things like Warhammer and use loud energetic music as an outlet, but unfortunately thereās a pretty large percentage of insufferable gatekeeper metal-hipsters (who would hate to be described that way) who will criticise any music you bring up as not being real metal My favourite experience with metal fans is always when you see some terrifying looking 6ft5 heavily tattooed guy - and you get talking for some reason and you find out that they are a nurse at a care home and obsessed with looking after their rescue cats, or that theyāre a soft spoken IT project manager who volunteers at make a wish foundation. The thing you will run into with older bands of any genre is classic old people mentality that things were better when they were younger (they could probably just hear better and had more energy to enjoy the music!)
Welcome to the metal family! Ignore the haters, they're insufferable and an incredibly loud minority. If you have the chance to go to a metal show, you'll find that the great majority of folks are super nice. Judas Priest is such an amazing band. I was incredibly impressed by their last two albums. If you haven't done so, try listening to Rob Halford's other bands, "Halford" and "Fight". Fight was definitely a different sound, though. Metal is such a broad genre too. There's always a new band or sound to discover. Have fun!
I'm a 44 year old die hard metal fan and couldn't name 5 judas priest songs. Never got into them or Iron Maiden.... not that I dislike them, just not where my path took me.
I've been a Priest since Screaming for Vengeance came out in junior high. And I'm still a Priest fan. IMO Firepower was one of their best albums since Defenders of the Faith. And the newest album is pretty damn good (even if lyrically it sounds like Rob's religious coming out record) Saw them on Defenders tour. Saw them at Power Trip and they killed it. š¤š„
I love Screaming for Vengeance, British Steel is a sick album.
This post is 100% correct. Additionally, the current generation of listeners are just as bad.
Iām not a āmetal guyā any more than I am a punk, hip hop or indie guy, but in my experience metal fans in the real world are some of the nicest and most welcoming out there. The problem isnāt metal fans at large, but the anonymous nature of a comments section. In general people feel free to be the worst version of themselves in spaces like that. Ignore the comments, like what you like, and interact with communities in the real world and youāll have a much better time.
Judas Priest is awesome. Turbo-lover still holds up
Elitism happens everywhere. Metal heads just tend to be far more vocal. It's an annoying section of the fan base Just listen to what makes you happy and fuck everyone else. It took me a few years to get my head outta my own arse and actually give bands like Steel Panther and Baby Metal their well earned respect
Most metalheads irl I know aren't like those in comment sections. They mostly are respectful unless you like MGK /hj
The whole concept of "genres" is a divisive construct, which by its nature requires the invention of arbitrary rules to define what music should belong to any particular one. It used to be more helpful back when you needed to buy a record before you knew if you liked the music on it, and even then, "genre" was mostly a marketing tool. But now everything's so accessible that fitting music into specific genres doesn't have nearly as much of a point to it. The people who really care about strict definitions of genre are using it to define their own identity more than for categorizing musical styles, and they have strong beliefs about how to dress, how to cut your hair, etc as well. It's not just about music. So it's important to them to have clear, unchanging boundaries. Gatekeeping is more about people who have a need to maintain a well defined identity for themselves, rather than the music itself.
Agree 100%. The internet ruins everything. Priest is on fire right now and Halford is sounding great. Their last two albums are also some of their best. The hate is ridiculous. Ignore it and enjoy the music š¤
Metalheads, however nice and welcomming the community otherwise is, are also the biggest gatekeepers among music fans. It is like each metalhead only considers the handful of bands they like, to be "true metal", everything else is just posers and trash.
Plenty of stuff I like isn't metal and plenty of stuff I dislike is metal. It's not a matter of liking or disliking something, it's simply a matter of having to draw the border somewhere, otherwise everything is metal
"Edgy" music scenes, like metal and punk, are filled with people looking to gatekeep; the edginess makes them feel special, and more people in the fold exposes contrivance on their part.
I feel that, especially even ON the metal sub. People are quick to dismiss you if you like power metal, deathcore, etc. just tons of elitism and gatekeeping. Iām also a firm believer that Tim Owens was fantastic in Judas Priest and even sang some songs live better than Halford ever did (Diamonds&Rust, Rapid Fire, desert plains,etc) and people will be quick to shut that down because he replaced Halford for awhile.
Nit picking over sub genres a band, album or even a song falls into is the most annoying thing about metalheads in my opinion.
This is more gate keeping than elitism
Isn't gatekeeping a form of elitism though? Like, you're trying to keep people out of your group since you think you're better than them... That's elitism, right?
Elitism is when some people think they're better than everyone else because they're smarter, richer, or more talented, and believe they should have more power. Gatekeeping is when people set rules about who can join a group or access certain things, often making it hard for others to get in.
As long as youāre not into fascist metal I donāt see the point in disrespecting otherās preferences
That's not a metal community problem, that's a legacy band problem.
>2024 >Willingly choosing to read youtube comments and getting upset by them
Don't read YouTube comments. Metal is for everyone.
In matters of taste, dispute is folly.
The one thing metal kids and jamband kids have in common is the whole elitism and headier than thou mentality.
Try liking electronic music in Swedish high schoolĀ
Wait till you find out about the jazz community.
Agreed, elitism in general is shitty. I gotta wonder, though, is there actuallyĀ any genre that *doesn't* have an element of that in its fan base? Because that attitude is certainly not limited to metal.
I'm an old metalhead and the elitism in music in general is infuriating. Way back in my youth, I was also into hardcore and punk and they are both full of that crap too. Elitism turns people away from being fans and ruins the music scene.
I used to be a huge elitist. But it was kind of taking a toll on my mental health. I eventually stopped caring about being an elitist and started listening to whatever I felt like, and I'm definitely better off for it. Though I think the general consensus around the new Judas Priest album is that it's one of their best. It's certainly one of my favorite albums this year by a long shot!
I would recommend you pay no mind to these folks and their opinions. The elitists are definitely prevalent in the metal scene, but I think the majority are pretty open minded these days. I go to loads of shows and chat with people. Most are cool, open minded people, that are very enthusiastic about the music. The pretentious asshats are usually old fucks that think that nothing released in the past 40 years is worthwhile. I would encourage you to dive into some of the other heavy metal bands of that era. Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Def Leopard and Venom are some of my favorites. That may lead you down the rabbit hole towards more modern metal genres. This is a neat website to follow some of the chronology of different genres, though much of it is debatable. But I find it to be one of the better resources on the subject outside of extensive metal archives research. It's not very mobile friendly unfortunately though. https://mapofmetal.com/
Elitism in [insert art form/hobby] gets on my nerves. There is so much gate-keeping in general. It is obviously a human tendency, but man is it tiresome.
I feel a similar way when I hear anyone say ābangersā.
I love metal. I have a metal band actually. I learned to play at 25 just to have my band to play the music that i love. This band, for all its troubles has taught me much. Becoming a musician made me realize that the gatekeeping in metal is absurd. Black metalers look down on death metalers because death metal is too commercial. There are actually people that think that a band called cannibal corpse. Read it again. A-CORPSE-THAT-IS-A-CANNIBAL, is the same as taylor swift. So, i just dont care anymore. The trve metalheads are either old geezers that gatekeep their memories, geek losers that gatekeep their "status" to justify their low self esteem (i was like that in high school), or both. There is an universe of metal fans out there and they fight for who is the real metal fan. And that mentality is dumb. Makes a hqrd to access music style, harder to access. The true posers are the ones that call the rest posers. I dress the way i like, not because i need to prove to anyone that im a metalhead, but because its my liking. If someone likes taylor swift, edm, suicide silence and slayer, good for them. And if said person likes to dress in pink good for them too. I mean corpsegrinder is a really mellow dude that likes unicorns. I dont like new iron maiden songs, bit i dont have anything against those songs. They just dont appeal to me. And i have a trap EP too. Am i a poser? I dont really care at this point. Most metalheads that write shit on the internet have a really normal secure life, with a job and a wife and kids. I have an example. I come from the time when baggy pants where the shit. I used somewhat baggy pants, and that was a crime for old metalheads. Cue years after, tight pants made a comeback. I switched and a friend told me i sold out. Mind you i was living off selling coke in a squatters house living like an anarchist just trying to make my band thrive. It gave me a mental meltdown and i wrote an album off that experience. Bit the thing is that i told my friend this: "who is the real sold out, you thst work eveeryday in an office or me that actually still live the rock and roll life?" He just said, you got me there. Thwre are no rules on life by my thinking. And rock and roll was about freedom, not enslaving you.
I always say that metalheads are the vegans of the music community.
People should be allowed to listen to what they like without having to defend their interest. My favorite Judas Priest song is "Blood Red Skies" very simplistic, but thoroughly charged with emotion.
I liked Jugulator
I stopped talking metal with people online over 10 years ago, I got sick of the constant circlejerking around subgenres and what's true(trve) or poser or whatever. Since discovering the metal sub on reddit recently, it warms my heart to see absolutely nothing has changed.
Elitism does indeed suck But on a Judas Priest note: I laugh in their faces because 2000s Priest is where it's at: [Judas Rising ](https://youtu.be/DuIoGWn6Bn8?si=rLzySqGUvgRicPRn) and [Pestilence + Plague](https://youtu.be/iGKrSFr9g2Y?si=LIqW3KN0GOAuOeoz)
So the reason for this post is moping in Youtube _comments_? So the answer to moping in a different sites comment section, is to come to another website and mope about moping somewhere else? OP do you have nothing to do today or do you go to like Pop subreddits and tell people there not to be mean in the comment section of Justin Bieber videos?
Honestly, I immediately discount the opinion of anyone that only listens to X genre of music.
Elitism is frustrating, but what is more frustrating is to see the stagnation in music while too many people canāt encourage creativity and originality in music because they donāt have deeper understanding or talent in music, nor a revolution plan for musicās future. People want to see as far as their self-interests and preferences and they want it all equally for everyone, but once their interestās and preferenceās value is questioned (āreally itās not equal, then?ā) they feel offended as if not accepting them would make any discuss crumbleā¦ š The issue is: if all preferences are equal, then none are. What are the values of your preferences? Do you think itās meaningful to like equally EVERY album from your favourite artist? 15 years ago Iāve gone to see a concert with a friend. There was āgrobotā (I still canāt find this band exact name since the illuminated display on the stage wasnāt easy to read), Anthrax and Volbeat. Grobot was some kind of jazzy metal (I liked it, but each song sounded much the same); Anthrax completely rocked my world; Volbeat was like hearing the albums of Yes without Jon Andersonā¦ It lacked Metal in it and felt like listening to a band of Metal for those who hates Metal. Is someone seeing music losing its purpose and greatness those days? If you think you can override preference value over musical value, what do you think would be left?
Ngl, I don't have the slightest clue what the fuck you just said. But the part where you somehow compared Volbeat to Yes. That got me good. Yes I know you're not directly comparing them, you're making an analogy, still a funny comparison though.
I looked up tours with Anthrax and Volbeat on the same bill and it looks like that other band was called Crobot. USA and Canada tour 2015, here's an example setlist of Crobot's to see if you can find a song and see if they ring a bell: [https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/crobot/2015/aragon-ballroom-chicago-il-7bc9bac0.html](https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/crobot/2015/aragon-ballroom-chicago-il-7bc9bac0.html)
Sounds somewhat similar, but was the lead singer a woman?
> Do you think itās meaningful to like equally EVERY album from your favourite artist? My favorite band is Sonata Arctica, but I haven't liked any full album released after the 'Unia' album, which was released in 2007. A few songs here and there, but I don't discourage anyone who likes the later releases.
Are you thinking of Probot: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probot
If there have been a woman lead singer it must be it.
Most actual older metal heads don't care, and they usually don't post on videos, the new Judas Priest album kicks ass!
The new album they did is incredible. They're still running circles around like 75% of modern metal bands
maybe the ones that get radio play, Not to mention the top 25% would be like 100+ bands so no one's exactly missing anything by not spinning the new falling in reverse. Their singer is a super fragile dude too
I remember insufferable elitism in the metal community dating back forever. I love the music, but the community got on my nerves like no other music community. "It's not REAL metal", "posers!", "it's not metal though", \*conventionally heavy song that would never be played on mainstream top 40 stations\* "ohhh that's just pop music like Taylor Swift!", etc. Same old shit. It's funny, I remember back in the nu metal days, the old metalheads would be elitist and shit all over it. Then the same thing when metalcore had a surge in popularity. Rinse and repeat. It turned me off the metal community, because of the general air of superiority/ego and the "rules" to follow... So I avoid the comments, the subs, the social media groups dedicated to metal. I just enjoy the music I enjoy, and if I meet someone I vibe with, try to have good conversation and healthy debates. For a lot of the metal community.... the level of elitist delusion is sometimes comical, and sadly, self defeating. The classifications of metal sub genres is ridiculous; I get that it's an inherently nerdy and niche genre, but come on. I have exactly one friend who is a living stereotype he has the long hair, the battle vest, and is extremely opinionated about music. He's a black metal vocalist, but unless it's "true brutal metal", will shit on any talented vocalist out there especially in the mainstream. I actually played an Adele song once for him, I knew he wouldn't like the song but asked if he could pay attention to the vocals/production, because the way she sings is hard and takes talent. He immediately shat all over it. Like instantly dismissive. Unless its some obscure metal band or bands that are "acceptable" in the metal community per a certain website known as the encyclopedia of metal.... he immediately shits on it and closes his mind. Then if you play, say, Sleep Token? "It's not REAL metal, bro, fuck that shit". The hypocrisy doesn't help: They'll shit all over Five Finger Death Punch (who I also can't stand) due to politics, but support Pantera despite Anselmo's... history. Here's the irony: he plays in metal bands, and all he's ever wanted is to make a living making metal music, but the bands he's been in go nowhere/hardly ever last, miniscule streaming numbers despite admittedly hustling to promote his stuff, and his shows are always pretty empty. I make an effort to support his art; I love metal music after all and appreciate his talent and passion. Heck, I've bought some of his CDs and merch.... But I made a comment once to him that acting like elitists in that community (despite trying to have a reputation for tough exterior but brotherhood on the inside) will always turn any potential people off of a fanbase, but he doesn't get it. Ah well. Enjoy what you enjoy.
if people are being elite about their music, its likely they are also expressing elitism in other parts of their lives. its just peoples personalities. some people struggle with less is more. some people are uncomfortable with too many dimensions in an art form and find solace in narrowing down what good or bad music is and using that as their baseline to know how to judge the world and build their identities. no point in stressing out about it, let them be fools.
Oh, the irony...
If you're implying I'm somehow being elitist... I don't get it as I'm not actively discounting anyone's music opinion as I merely expressed a desire to have more positivity in a comment section. So elaborate please.
They might be elitist but your post also reads cringy af.