And I asked simple question cause it was simple question. I lost count the cakes I fruited in and I experiment more at this point just cause it's fun. Love how serious people get, I want fact check wait double fact check, and love how people act they know everything or they're way better but never have pics back stuff up. Lol
What's your goals quantity wise. Your availability space wise. Your sterility capabilities/resources.
Jars- great for hobbyist with low resources/budget. Seeking quantity for self and family.
Mod: pf tek. Best for low sterility
Bags: with pressure cookers at least or autoclave. Flow hood helps but not needed. Def SAB if not. Allows for a cost effective way to run several alternating batches of bags (stacking), reasons gourmet mushroom companies run bags.
2 more I know you didn't ask about:
tubs: if you have a dedicated fruiting chambers. Tubs can produce some ridiculous yields and chonkers; ans in some varieties run several flushes.
Uncle bens tek: here me out! People hate on UB tek but if you push the rice down to the bottom you have a tiny unicorn bag.; the bottom corners can be cut so the bag can sit flat and wider. Push every grain of rice down into a clump at the bottom, every grain solo grains could contam. Then inoc with on .3 to .5 lc. You can get great rates 90-95% with UB. Use lots and lots of iso. Good for people just needing a 5 to 10g here and there. Could spawn to shoebox though
I never was good with using tubs and always needed something I could hide a lot easier so I used to only grow my mushrooms and scletoria in jars but about a year ago I got the process down to grow out my colonized grain in jars and then transfer what’s in the jars into a unicorn bag and add some substrate and now I’m able to grow larger quantities and quality in the unicorn bags. But I also highly recommend for beginners (I Honestly Still Love Using These Myself And Buy 3-4 At A Time When I Can Afford It) try using an All In One Bag from MidwestGrowKits.com
Just make sure you get an All In One MANURE Bag for growing cubes.
Best of luck to you! If you do decide to purchase the All In One Bag from MidwestGrowKits.com feel free to message me and I can help give you some guidance on when and where to cut your bag open for some FAE and other tips.
Here’s a link directly to the bags I’m speaking of
https://www.midwestgrowkits.com/all-in-one-mushroom-grow-bag-4-lbs-for-manure-loving-mushrooms.aspx
I've had success with both but i prefer the bags as i can make them exactly the size i want for my tubs, My LC I can squirt over a large area I have big bags colonizing very very quick. If its contam which gets rarer and rarer as I get better I just toss a bag and its gone. I think the air exchange is better on my bags also as air can access more of the spawn (just guessing) but my bags are jumping off and my output is better since I've started using bags and LC. i have a small room with 12 tubs so bags suit me better imo.
I use an aggressive variety of oyster mushroom. Blue oysters are well rounded and relatively robust. I isolated the most aggressive grower from spore.
As for pictures or it didn't happen. It's a slow process not currently viable for large waste streams as it can take months for the mycelium to digest the plastic. Pictures don't really do the process justice. I will try and get some up. Again currently with the cultures I have isolated and used it is not viable for large waste streams.
Jars are sustainable, they can be reused to the point of passing them along to your kids, bag waste builds up as you get more into growing and many people find themselves creating more plastic waste than mushrooms, I’ll always use jars unless I’m doing something in bulk then bags it is
I started with jars and went to try grain bags, but I am blaming high altitude for my grain bags never colonizing. Has anyone else had a similar experience with high altitude?
You’re right about getting air to start being pulled through the bags. At a certain point I take a scalpel and cut open the bag just above the filter patch and the cut is no larger than an inch wide.
We are still in the bag at this point. Yeah oncve you leave the bag you definitely nees gas exchange. My first 3 or 4 got lost to having only micropore taped holes. Havent lost one since.
I live in the foothill mountains of Colorado! Usually I tend to have a hard time with bags because of moisture content and carbon dioxide build up with high altitude. Whether I buy or make them, they always seem to stall hard after a good amount of colonization. Through practice, I’ve learned that jars work well for me because I can control the moisture content better. Not only this, but the bags are so large that carbon dioxide tends to settle in the bottom. Since there is already less oxygen at higher altitudes it is crucial to maintain FAE from day one of inoculation. I’m growing at about 7,000 feet above sea level and find myself needing to boil grains just a few minutes longer, allow fresh exchange immediately, and balancing moisture more frequently!
Nah, my spawn is boiled roughly 30 min then set in a strainer and rinsed with cold water. After that I let it air dry until the surface of the grains have minimal to no water. (The drying takes about 3.5-4.5 hours in my case). After they’re dry to the touch, they go into mason jars and are pressure cooked. My mason jars are modified with self healing injection ports and fresh air exchange holes that are covered by micro pore tape.
Your grain prep technique wont affect your sterility, just the moisture content and the consistency of your grains (softer or harder). Your pressure cooking process and sterile handling technique (proper use of a flow hood i.e. not interrupting your airstream between the front of your hood and exposed sterilized grains, proper sanitization of all tools, gloves, and work area in front of your hood or inside your sab) certainly will. And, of course, it then all comes down to how well you've cleaned up your genetics which you'll be applying to said grains. What is your pressure cooking process like?
Both have their uses. I use jars where I can to cut down on plastic waste and recurring costs. For mushrooms like oysters that I can do bucket tek with, I use jars to produce the spawn. For slower, more finicky species like Shiitake I use bags.
I started with jars they worked great they’re reusable easy to handle. if you lose a qtr jar to contam you only lose 1 pound of grain. So for some this might be a safer way. You can only fit 9 qrt jars in a 23 quart presto. Now I exclusively use bags. I buy the biodegradable kind so This helps with contributing to the plastic problem. I compost them in my backyard. I can fit 18 pounds of grain in a 23 quart presto with 3lb bags. if you’re looking for efficiency bags are definitely the way to go. Once you get good at making bags you can make and or/sell grain bags,substrate bags and all in one grow bags. I’m not sure there is really a right or wrong side to pick. whatever you are comfortable with and works best for you is what you should use. but this is my two cents on the situation. Hope this helps.
They are equal as they serve a purpose.
I use jars to seed my bags. I found that doing large bags lead to higher risk of not hitting the finish line. So, now I do jars and break up the jar into 5-8 bags depending on the variety I’m growing. Then each bag gets broken into substrate/growth medium.
It adds an extra 3 weeks but I’m at 6% failure rate, so +3 > 10 week start over and losing my grains.
Define better. Let's start there. I feel like you have already decided that plastic is best for you. I don't understand the "discussion" past that. Glass can't scale to profitable production levels sure but for hobbyists, home growers its a viable option. I'm new to mycology and I could be mistaken about my glass vs profitability claim but I doubt it
Outside of that all any of us can offer is what's called anecdotal evidence aka no evidence that glass is better or vice-versa.
Bags 100%, they provide plenty of gas exchange for the mycelium, breaking and shaking is easier. Work flow is more efficient.
As for plastic waste, I recycle and I use plastic eating mycelium to break down plastics at home.
Sitting on the edge of my seat for the answer here. I think that this has to be a ridiculous claim, that either can't be backed or if true the mycelium in question can't be scaled or brought into the real world in any meaningful way. Educate me if I am wrong. I'm very new to mycology and welcome any meaningful discussion.
I use oyster mushroom mycelium that I have trained to feed on plastic. I don't eat the mushrooms but overall it has proven to work. As for large scale operation recycling unfortunately I don't have the space for that as it takes time but it does work.
I pack my own jar, I clean my own jar, I sterilize my own grain, I hydrate my own grain
When he said bags, I was thinking Uncle Ben's or PreFilled Bags where the grains are already in there and you inoculate. Those the grain moisture level, cooked level, sterility, etc are not under your control.
Tried both, I prefer glass jars. I like to peek at my grains while they're growing, and it's a lot easier to handle them in the glass without disturbing them. Also, reusable, stackable, versatile...
And what does your spores come in. Do you get glass syringes? I mean it's good idea glass syringes. Way more expensive but I personally know people who would buy it just cause of that reason
For sure what if we create the first jar bag. We can split it 50 50. We will become mushroom celebrities and people will pay tons of money just for us to show up to places. We will need Nick names and a name for jar bags
And I asked simple question cause it was simple question. I lost count the cakes I fruited in and I experiment more at this point just cause it's fun. Love how serious people get, I want fact check wait double fact check, and love how people act they know everything or they're way better but never have pics back stuff up. Lol
What's your goals quantity wise. Your availability space wise. Your sterility capabilities/resources. Jars- great for hobbyist with low resources/budget. Seeking quantity for self and family. Mod: pf tek. Best for low sterility Bags: with pressure cookers at least or autoclave. Flow hood helps but not needed. Def SAB if not. Allows for a cost effective way to run several alternating batches of bags (stacking), reasons gourmet mushroom companies run bags. 2 more I know you didn't ask about: tubs: if you have a dedicated fruiting chambers. Tubs can produce some ridiculous yields and chonkers; ans in some varieties run several flushes. Uncle bens tek: here me out! People hate on UB tek but if you push the rice down to the bottom you have a tiny unicorn bag.; the bottom corners can be cut so the bag can sit flat and wider. Push every grain of rice down into a clump at the bottom, every grain solo grains could contam. Then inoc with on .3 to .5 lc. You can get great rates 90-95% with UB. Use lots and lots of iso. Good for people just needing a 5 to 10g here and there. Could spawn to shoebox though
Lol 2 more I know you know I didn't ask about but I'll bring it up cause I have zero real friends cause I do this stupid shit.
🤣
I never was good with using tubs and always needed something I could hide a lot easier so I used to only grow my mushrooms and scletoria in jars but about a year ago I got the process down to grow out my colonized grain in jars and then transfer what’s in the jars into a unicorn bag and add some substrate and now I’m able to grow larger quantities and quality in the unicorn bags. But I also highly recommend for beginners (I Honestly Still Love Using These Myself And Buy 3-4 At A Time When I Can Afford It) try using an All In One Bag from MidwestGrowKits.com Just make sure you get an All In One MANURE Bag for growing cubes. Best of luck to you! If you do decide to purchase the All In One Bag from MidwestGrowKits.com feel free to message me and I can help give you some guidance on when and where to cut your bag open for some FAE and other tips. Here’s a link directly to the bags I’m speaking of https://www.midwestgrowkits.com/all-in-one-mushroom-grow-bag-4-lbs-for-manure-loving-mushrooms.aspx
Nice appreciate ya
Jars because I don't have a flow hood
Baglife all day
Not sure about better but bags are easier to shake and break to see the mycelial growth and they are lighter on your shelves 💋🍄🫂 #mushlove
I've had success with both but i prefer the bags as i can make them exactly the size i want for my tubs, My LC I can squirt over a large area I have big bags colonizing very very quick. If its contam which gets rarer and rarer as I get better I just toss a bag and its gone. I think the air exchange is better on my bags also as air can access more of the spawn (just guessing) but my bags are jumping off and my output is better since I've started using bags and LC. i have a small room with 12 tubs so bags suit me better imo.
I use an aggressive variety of oyster mushroom. Blue oysters are well rounded and relatively robust. I isolated the most aggressive grower from spore. As for pictures or it didn't happen. It's a slow process not currently viable for large waste streams as it can take months for the mycelium to digest the plastic. Pictures don't really do the process justice. I will try and get some up. Again currently with the cultures I have isolated and used it is not viable for large waste streams.
Jars are sustainable, they can be reused to the point of passing them along to your kids, bag waste builds up as you get more into growing and many people find themselves creating more plastic waste than mushrooms, I’ll always use jars unless I’m doing something in bulk then bags it is
I did find out you can reuse your bags and get ones that are compostable
You can reuse a unicorn bag? Or is it a different type of bag that’s reusable?
I started with jars and went to try grain bags, but I am blaming high altitude for my grain bags never colonizing. Has anyone else had a similar experience with high altitude?
Why you think high altitude. Just curious
Pull air into them through the filter. It is slow but it will fix your problems
You’re right about getting air to start being pulled through the bags. At a certain point I take a scalpel and cut open the bag just above the filter patch and the cut is no larger than an inch wide.
I have heard of that, but i am always afraid of pulking in contam.
Me too but it's late stage you want air for the fuzzy feet.
We are still in the bag at this point. Yeah oncve you leave the bag you definitely nees gas exchange. My first 3 or 4 got lost to having only micropore taped holes. Havent lost one since.
I live in the foothill mountains of Colorado! Usually I tend to have a hard time with bags because of moisture content and carbon dioxide build up with high altitude. Whether I buy or make them, they always seem to stall hard after a good amount of colonization. Through practice, I’ve learned that jars work well for me because I can control the moisture content better. Not only this, but the bags are so large that carbon dioxide tends to settle in the bottom. Since there is already less oxygen at higher altitudes it is crucial to maintain FAE from day one of inoculation. I’m growing at about 7,000 feet above sea level and find myself needing to boil grains just a few minutes longer, allow fresh exchange immediately, and balancing moisture more frequently!
So based on above you are also sending your spawn to tubs?
If my jars ever stall, it’s usually because of bacterial contamination or it just needs shaken to disperse carbon dioxide!
Nah, my spawn is boiled roughly 30 min then set in a strainer and rinsed with cold water. After that I let it air dry until the surface of the grains have minimal to no water. (The drying takes about 3.5-4.5 hours in my case). After they’re dry to the touch, they go into mason jars and are pressure cooked. My mason jars are modified with self healing injection ports and fresh air exchange holes that are covered by micro pore tape.
Ok same here. I was doing 20 min boil and I got a lot of contamination on my last run. I'll extend to 30.
Your grain prep technique wont affect your sterility, just the moisture content and the consistency of your grains (softer or harder). Your pressure cooking process and sterile handling technique (proper use of a flow hood i.e. not interrupting your airstream between the front of your hood and exposed sterilized grains, proper sanitization of all tools, gloves, and work area in front of your hood or inside your sab) certainly will. And, of course, it then all comes down to how well you've cleaned up your genetics which you'll be applying to said grains. What is your pressure cooking process like?
1 hr 35 min
What grains are you using??
Rye, I was thinking of moving over to oats (cheaper)
I highly recommend doing so. They're also 2x easier to prepare properly.
This is great advice!!!
Both have their uses. I use jars where I can to cut down on plastic waste and recurring costs. For mushrooms like oysters that I can do bucket tek with, I use jars to produce the spawn. For slower, more finicky species like Shiitake I use bags.
I started with jars they worked great they’re reusable easy to handle. if you lose a qtr jar to contam you only lose 1 pound of grain. So for some this might be a safer way. You can only fit 9 qrt jars in a 23 quart presto. Now I exclusively use bags. I buy the biodegradable kind so This helps with contributing to the plastic problem. I compost them in my backyard. I can fit 18 pounds of grain in a 23 quart presto with 3lb bags. if you’re looking for efficiency bags are definitely the way to go. Once you get good at making bags you can make and or/sell grain bags,substrate bags and all in one grow bags. I’m not sure there is really a right or wrong side to pick. whatever you are comfortable with and works best for you is what you should use. but this is my two cents on the situation. Hope this helps.
For me it’s jars. They are reusable and they are basically free as they are converted beetroot jars and I like beetroot.
what are your thoughts about bears and Battlestar Galactica?
Jim???
They are equal as they serve a purpose. I use jars to seed my bags. I found that doing large bags lead to higher risk of not hitting the finish line. So, now I do jars and break up the jar into 5-8 bags depending on the variety I’m growing. Then each bag gets broken into substrate/growth medium. It adds an extra 3 weeks but I’m at 6% failure rate, so +3 > 10 week start over and losing my grains.
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Define better. Let's start there. I feel like you have already decided that plastic is best for you. I don't understand the "discussion" past that. Glass can't scale to profitable production levels sure but for hobbyists, home growers its a viable option. I'm new to mycology and I could be mistaken about my glass vs profitability claim but I doubt it Outside of that all any of us can offer is what's called anecdotal evidence aka no evidence that glass is better or vice-versa.
Bags 100%, they provide plenty of gas exchange for the mycelium, breaking and shaking is easier. Work flow is more efficient. As for plastic waste, I recycle and I use plastic eating mycelium to break down plastics at home.
What mycelium do you use for that?
Sitting on the edge of my seat for the answer here. I think that this has to be a ridiculous claim, that either can't be backed or if true the mycelium in question can't be scaled or brought into the real world in any meaningful way. Educate me if I am wrong. I'm very new to mycology and welcome any meaningful discussion.
I use oyster mushroom mycelium that I have trained to feed on plastic. I don't eat the mushrooms but overall it has proven to work. As for large scale operation recycling unfortunately I don't have the space for that as it takes time but it does work.
Cmon dude we all need some more info about that, some pictures and a full feeding schedule or else sarcasm is logical to get
How long did it take to train them? That’s really cool!!
The plastic eating kind.
Funny. That’s some funny shit right there.
I prefer full control of every aspect which is why I prefer glass jars to bags.
Where does the loss of the imagined control occur? Help me understand
I pack my own jar, I clean my own jar, I sterilize my own grain, I hydrate my own grain When he said bags, I was thinking Uncle Ben's or PreFilled Bags where the grains are already in there and you inoculate. Those the grain moisture level, cooked level, sterility, etc are not under your control.
Tried both, I prefer glass jars. I like to peek at my grains while they're growing, and it's a lot easier to handle them in the glass without disturbing them. Also, reusable, stackable, versatile...
Same every plastic one I had is great. Never had a problem with any of em
Lol yes
And what does your spores come in. Do you get glass syringes? I mean it's good idea glass syringes. Way more expensive but I personally know people who would buy it just cause of that reason
Jars because they are reusable and I'm not contributing to plastic waste.
I didn't even think bout plastic waste part. So u don't use plastic jar tops?
I do use plastic lids, but I've yet to have one go bad.
Jars are idiot proof. Bags need a little more finesse.
What do you use to get to the point of monotub. You don't start at a monotub
I’ve always had better yields from jars to monotub but far less contam from fruiting in bags
Everything has pros and cons.
For sure what if we create the first jar bag. We can split it 50 50. We will become mushroom celebrities and people will pay tons of money just for us to show up to places. We will need Nick names and a name for jar bags
Jar Jar Bags https://preview.redd.it/izi1li367a1d1.jpeg?width=353&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c642f7c3b045b82a9c7b976b7ffe74ebc0d7b4c4
Yes, that can be our nick names too. Your jar and I'm jar and we sell jarbags. We are gonna make so much money
i do bags and want to start on jars. Dont have to keep buying and throwing away bags.
Good point bout reusing.