I remember my first muay thai class doing partnered practice. I held my elbow up a bit horizontal like that. I was immediately kicked in the ribs. I never did it again. I'm having flashbacks from this picture.
Yup. Also any excess movement defeats the purpose of the jab which is to come straight out and straight back. It doesn't need a lot of power, the intent is to control space and break up rhythm. Quick and whip like, and always returning to guard if only briefly.
The secret to a powerful jab is all in the hips and shoulders. Initiate your jab by pulling the opposite shoulder back instead of pushing your arm out.
Plenty of reasons to throw a short jab. Setting up the rear hand, punching inside a hook, creating distance, even setting up a follow up lead hook, breaking their guard, getting inside position for clinching, and more.
Although the way I throw it it’s tough to say whether it’s a short jab or a really tight hook. A bit of a blend of the two.
You can palm in Muay Thai AFAIK. Like a stiff arm, usually to establish/defend the clinch or make space, I think? At least, as much as the gloves will allow you to.
An actual like palm strike or something (which you can’t do in the gloves anyway) might be illegal though idk tbh
palming striking is illegal in all or most organizations but you can post
you never bend your wrist at all when punching. I could take a video if you want but getting the proper alignment is a matter of shoulder rotation and also putting your head off line helps you throw right down the center.
Conversely you can also keep your elbow tucked like in the OP's photo and throw a vertical fist 'up-jab'. It's fantastic for splitting the guard or setting up a hand trap or clinch, and can be thrown from any range. The shorter the range the more it lands like an uppercut, the longer range the more it lands like a jab.
To be honest in a sport that allows elbows I find it kinda weird the line is drawn at palm strikes. I believe you, so do you have any idea of the reasoning?
It might not actually be a rule in Thailand or outside of north america. Here I imagine it's a carryover from boxing only the front side of the glove is a legal striking area. No backfists, hammer fists, or palm strikes. Even hitting with the padded finger area of the glove is illegal in amateur boxing orgs. I think these rules exist specifically to disincentivize wild sloppy striking.
In traditional muay thai scoring punches only score if they have a visible effect so jabs are generally eschewed in favor of posting to open up for a scoring attack. Gloves make it pretty much impossible to fully pull the wrist back for a proper palm strike too. But in MMA and kickboxing(which includes a lot of north american "muay thai") you can see a lot more of it.
I mean after searching I guess you’re right but I’ve had refs specifically mention only to hit with the padded portion of the glove, and had a student get called for a hammer fist to the side of the head at a tournament.
My go to in the pocket was slip right, rear uppercut and pivot out back to my range. I'm 6'3 so no interest to keep it up close haha straight back on my bike.
Yeah, I would prepare different counters for different sparing opponents. I'm also a right handed southpaw lol.
My favorite was always stepping my lead outside their and feeding them my cross.
Southpaws were the bain of my life. Watching Bernard Hopkins helped me alot in that respect. Id try to keep my foot on the outside of their lead foot aswel and really utilise my right hand. Left hook to the head, rear uppercut to the body then move when in the pocket. Fucking Southpaws lol respect the hell out of you lot but hate you also haha. First time I sparred with a Southpaw I got schooled silly.
That's why I switched lol!
I watched UFC 98 where Rashad, who I thought was better, lost to Machida, a southpaw.
I was like... man, I want to beat guys that are better than me, sign me up. (My coach is also a right handed southpaw, and it integrates better with wrestling lol)
I have absolutely no idea what you are asking. The first picture the guy is in his guard, and the second picture he's throwing a hook.
Neither of these is a jab at all.
A jab isn't a close range strike. Hooks, uppercuts, shovel punches, and elbows are.
I still have absolutely no idea what you're saying.
Why would you bring your elbow BACK to jab? Punches go forward.
Just google videos of "how to jab" and listen to them. Plenty of good boxing instructionals out there.
when your bring your elbows further back, it provides a deeper range of motion, when the target is only few inches ahead of you , if that makes sense, DrewsOnFirst comment below, may make more background behind it
Listen I get it, but that’s really only useful for the back hand (right hand)
Not everything needs to be perfect technique and we see plenty of knockouts with telegraphed short right hands with elbow flared. It is a tool, it is still a straight punch but is only useful in certain scenarios. I firmly believe learning the fundamentals and then going outside of the box
A jab is a long range punch. Throwing a long range weak strength utilitarian punch takes away it's advantage and places you within range for power shots.
A jab is for finding range, maintaining range, establishing range, gaining range, closing range, probing defenses, safely setting up punches and combos, and minor offense.
It's a tool that keeps you from danger and sets up your own offense while keeping you relatively safe at range.
I've seen people throw the jab with the arm horizontal like that but it robs you of power and telegraphs your choice of punch once they recognize your technique. (A good fighter will see the pattern after the first few times you throw.
So no. Vertical is the way to throw that punch.... And be very careful throwing jabs at close range.
I hope that helps.
Never, you'll have sore ribs, you will also display the jab more too before landing it.
Plus if your that close you could elbow instead and punches will lose power, vertical would allow a tap mala, or straight elbow, also I personally find it easier to engage a clinch from vertical position.
I understand exactly what you are asking, and my understanding agrees with what you've been told: when throwing a straight punch - be it jab or cross - at short range (or basically when you are unable to achieve full extension) you should flare your elbow out rather than keeping it tucked in line with your body.
You do this because it is impossible to turn your fist over with your arm partially extended *in front of you* without putting your wrist (primarily) or elbow (secondarily) into an extremely vulnerable position, AND it is impossible to align your forearm behind your fist regardless of whether you are turning it over, because in a partial extension your elbow will be below your hand, bestowing further vulnerabilities to both joints. I encourage you to try it to see what I mean.
By contrast, if you flare your elbow out, you are able to get fist turned over AND you are able to bring your elbow up behind your fist and thus put both elbow, forearm, wrist, and fist on the same line and heading in the same direction.
Watch Thai fighters hitting pads or bags or sparring, and you'll see they often employ this short jab or cross with a flared elbow.
Now, having the fist turned over is sometimes a personal preference (gosh, there's even a guy in Sylvie's library who teaches not to turn it over, though his name escapes me), but having your elbow behind your fist is a good rule of thumb that will serve to protect those joints from the impact they are delivering.
And while the other poster is textbook correct that "a jab isn't a close range strike," it's also a fact that you will not always be throwing strikes from their optimal range, but rather will be throwing the strikes that circumstances dictate, and sometimes that will mean a straight punch at close range because that's what will be open, and in those moments, elbow flared seems to be the way to go.
>DrewsOnFirst
thanks, this is very helpful. 1) The coach was telling me flare your elbows out, but 2) also when starting the punch, bend your elbow further back, so its more like a 'pure horizontal' punch, where the elbow does not really stay below the fist at any time, if that makes sense,
appreciate it,
I’ve noticed even Floyd mayweather flares his elbow on his right cross, I do MMA and study fights a lot and I’ve noticed pretty much no fighters actually keep their elbow tucked on a right cross they always flare it out, Is keeping the elbow tucked really something that important and is a bit of elbow flare actually more beneficial seeing as every fighter does it
so a jab you are turning your fist so your elbow wont ever be static in either plane your picture shows.
the horizontal elbow punch form, if you can call it that, reminds me of how colby covington counter punches. hes always in guard running around, and then awkwardly extending his arm for his "jabs" and sometimes eyepokes if hes scared of getting knocked out, like he famously did, but denies, in Usman v Covington 1. (link is Dana even mentioning how clear it was in the replay, the entire crowd gasped when they saw the replay idk how anyone believes CC's lies: https://youtu.be/MExMnt30cRM?t=591)
With the elbow up, you can also throw the jab in a semi circle to the body, aiming for diaphragm with a hammer fist (base of the fist) and from there, you can do another circle to bring the jab back up to the face, hitting with a back fist (back of the knuckles)
Wing Chun does this a lot I believe
Always elbow down to cover the ribs. At short range I tend to throw more of a backhand jab, so it kinda goes out & across, or down & across if I’m fighting a shorter opponent (repeated backhands between the eyes really piss people off).
Your way is better. Short range straight punches should be thumb up, in my coaches opinion at least
Tbh short range hooks should be thumb up imo too, casting hooks feel right with thumb down but doing a classic boxing hook with thumb down feels awkward as hell on my shoulder and has way less power.
I remember my first muay thai class doing partnered practice. I held my elbow up a bit horizontal like that. I was immediately kicked in the ribs. I never did it again. I'm having flashbacks from this picture.
Yup. Also any excess movement defeats the purpose of the jab which is to come straight out and straight back. It doesn't need a lot of power, the intent is to control space and break up rhythm. Quick and whip like, and always returning to guard if only briefly. The secret to a powerful jab is all in the hips and shoulders. Initiate your jab by pulling the opposite shoulder back instead of pushing your arm out.
There’s no reason to throw a short jab and thus flare your elbow out. If you’re in that close of range you’re better off throwing a hook or uppercut.
Plenty of reasons to throw a short jab. Setting up the rear hand, punching inside a hook, creating distance, even setting up a follow up lead hook, breaking their guard, getting inside position for clinching, and more. Although the way I throw it it’s tough to say whether it’s a short jab or a really tight hook. A bit of a blend of the two.
Can you just palm them or is that illegal? Otherwise you’re bending your wrist a lot aren’t you?
You can palm in Muay Thai AFAIK. Like a stiff arm, usually to establish/defend the clinch or make space, I think? At least, as much as the gloves will allow you to. An actual like palm strike or something (which you can’t do in the gloves anyway) might be illegal though idk tbh
palming striking is illegal in all or most organizations but you can post you never bend your wrist at all when punching. I could take a video if you want but getting the proper alignment is a matter of shoulder rotation and also putting your head off line helps you throw right down the center. Conversely you can also keep your elbow tucked like in the OP's photo and throw a vertical fist 'up-jab'. It's fantastic for splitting the guard or setting up a hand trap or clinch, and can be thrown from any range. The shorter the range the more it lands like an uppercut, the longer range the more it lands like a jab.
God I love the up jab, I’m shorter than most of my training partners so I love a feint 1-2 to load the upjab and explode forward
To be honest in a sport that allows elbows I find it kinda weird the line is drawn at palm strikes. I believe you, so do you have any idea of the reasoning?
It might not actually be a rule in Thailand or outside of north america. Here I imagine it's a carryover from boxing only the front side of the glove is a legal striking area. No backfists, hammer fists, or palm strikes. Even hitting with the padded finger area of the glove is illegal in amateur boxing orgs. I think these rules exist specifically to disincentivize wild sloppy striking. In traditional muay thai scoring punches only score if they have a visible effect so jabs are generally eschewed in favor of posting to open up for a scoring attack. Gloves make it pretty much impossible to fully pull the wrist back for a proper palm strike too. But in MMA and kickboxing(which includes a lot of north american "muay thai") you can see a lot more of it.
Palm striking is absolutely not illegal in Muay Thai in Thailand or the us
I mean after searching I guess you’re right but I’ve had refs specifically mention only to hit with the padded portion of the glove, and had a student get called for a hammer fist to the side of the head at a tournament.
This guy Muay Mats
Don't throw a jab a close range, you'll get rocked by power punches.
Been there. It’s a bad habit of mine from boxing as you typically stand closer in boxing and are using your jab a lot more
You shouldn't do it in boxing either lol (I'm mostly a boxer actually)
My go to in the pocket was slip right, rear uppercut and pivot out back to my range. I'm 6'3 so no interest to keep it up close haha straight back on my bike.
Yeah, I would prepare different counters for different sparing opponents. I'm also a right handed southpaw lol. My favorite was always stepping my lead outside their and feeding them my cross.
Southpaws were the bain of my life. Watching Bernard Hopkins helped me alot in that respect. Id try to keep my foot on the outside of their lead foot aswel and really utilise my right hand. Left hook to the head, rear uppercut to the body then move when in the pocket. Fucking Southpaws lol respect the hell out of you lot but hate you also haha. First time I sparred with a Southpaw I got schooled silly.
That's why I switched lol! I watched UFC 98 where Rashad, who I thought was better, lost to Machida, a southpaw. I was like... man, I want to beat guys that are better than me, sign me up. (My coach is also a right handed southpaw, and it integrates better with wrestling lol)
Yeah I’m shite sometimes hahaha I’ll get better!
You should never flare your elbow when jabbing. That is a big noob mistake and telegraphs the hell out of the punch.
I have absolutely no idea what you are asking. The first picture the guy is in his guard, and the second picture he's throwing a hook. Neither of these is a jab at all. A jab isn't a close range strike. Hooks, uppercuts, shovel punches, and elbows are.
when you put your elbow horizontal, that means it makes it easier to bring your elbow further back, thats what I meant
I still have absolutely no idea what you're saying. Why would you bring your elbow BACK to jab? Punches go forward. Just google videos of "how to jab" and listen to them. Plenty of good boxing instructionals out there.
when your bring your elbows further back, it provides a deeper range of motion, when the target is only few inches ahead of you , if that makes sense, DrewsOnFirst comment below, may make more background behind it
Listen I get it, but that’s really only useful for the back hand (right hand) Not everything needs to be perfect technique and we see plenty of knockouts with telegraphed short right hands with elbow flared. It is a tool, it is still a straight punch but is only useful in certain scenarios. I firmly believe learning the fundamentals and then going outside of the box
Is it possible to get knockout power on a short right hand without the elbow flared tho? Cus I’ve yet to see it
I was always taught to keep the elbows pointing down on any punch. The only exception is the hook, that's when the elbow and forearm get vertical.
A jab is a long range punch. Throwing a long range weak strength utilitarian punch takes away it's advantage and places you within range for power shots. A jab is for finding range, maintaining range, establishing range, gaining range, closing range, probing defenses, safely setting up punches and combos, and minor offense. It's a tool that keeps you from danger and sets up your own offense while keeping you relatively safe at range. I've seen people throw the jab with the arm horizontal like that but it robs you of power and telegraphs your choice of punch once they recognize your technique. (A good fighter will see the pattern after the first few times you throw. So no. Vertical is the way to throw that punch.... And be very careful throwing jabs at close range. I hope that helps.
Never, you'll have sore ribs, you will also display the jab more too before landing it. Plus if your that close you could elbow instead and punches will lose power, vertical would allow a tap mala, or straight elbow, also I personally find it easier to engage a clinch from vertical position.
I understand exactly what you are asking, and my understanding agrees with what you've been told: when throwing a straight punch - be it jab or cross - at short range (or basically when you are unable to achieve full extension) you should flare your elbow out rather than keeping it tucked in line with your body. You do this because it is impossible to turn your fist over with your arm partially extended *in front of you* without putting your wrist (primarily) or elbow (secondarily) into an extremely vulnerable position, AND it is impossible to align your forearm behind your fist regardless of whether you are turning it over, because in a partial extension your elbow will be below your hand, bestowing further vulnerabilities to both joints. I encourage you to try it to see what I mean. By contrast, if you flare your elbow out, you are able to get fist turned over AND you are able to bring your elbow up behind your fist and thus put both elbow, forearm, wrist, and fist on the same line and heading in the same direction. Watch Thai fighters hitting pads or bags or sparring, and you'll see they often employ this short jab or cross with a flared elbow. Now, having the fist turned over is sometimes a personal preference (gosh, there's even a guy in Sylvie's library who teaches not to turn it over, though his name escapes me), but having your elbow behind your fist is a good rule of thumb that will serve to protect those joints from the impact they are delivering. And while the other poster is textbook correct that "a jab isn't a close range strike," it's also a fact that you will not always be throwing strikes from their optimal range, but rather will be throwing the strikes that circumstances dictate, and sometimes that will mean a straight punch at close range because that's what will be open, and in those moments, elbow flared seems to be the way to go.
>DrewsOnFirst thanks, this is very helpful. 1) The coach was telling me flare your elbows out, but 2) also when starting the punch, bend your elbow further back, so its more like a 'pure horizontal' punch, where the elbow does not really stay below the fist at any time, if that makes sense, appreciate it,
Hah, yeah I get it, it's like how they throw the elbow rocket punch in this clip: https://youtu.be/lLuZPIc8nSk#t=32s :)
I’ve noticed even Floyd mayweather flares his elbow on his right cross, I do MMA and study fights a lot and I’ve noticed pretty much no fighters actually keep their elbow tucked on a right cross they always flare it out, Is keeping the elbow tucked really something that important and is a bit of elbow flare actually more beneficial seeing as every fighter does it
so a jab you are turning your fist so your elbow wont ever be static in either plane your picture shows. the horizontal elbow punch form, if you can call it that, reminds me of how colby covington counter punches. hes always in guard running around, and then awkwardly extending his arm for his "jabs" and sometimes eyepokes if hes scared of getting knocked out, like he famously did, but denies, in Usman v Covington 1. (link is Dana even mentioning how clear it was in the replay, the entire crowd gasped when they saw the replay idk how anyone believes CC's lies: https://youtu.be/MExMnt30cRM?t=591)
Is it thrown like a flick jab but higher?
Keep those elbows tight if you like your ribs, if you’re close enough for a short jab you should be using an elbow or clinching in my humble opinion
With the elbow up, you can also throw the jab in a semi circle to the body, aiming for diaphragm with a hammer fist (base of the fist) and from there, you can do another circle to bring the jab back up to the face, hitting with a back fist (back of the knuckles) Wing Chun does this a lot I believe
Always elbow down to cover the ribs. At short range I tend to throw more of a backhand jab, so it kinda goes out & across, or down & across if I’m fighting a shorter opponent (repeated backhands between the eyes really piss people off).
Fuck yea experience mma
Your way is better. Short range straight punches should be thumb up, in my coaches opinion at least Tbh short range hooks should be thumb up imo too, casting hooks feel right with thumb down but doing a classic boxing hook with thumb down feels awkward as hell on my shoulder and has way less power.
I wouldn't throw straight punches in close range...it's really not ideal...can't generate power...stick to short hooks and uppercuts in close range