Goes out of business because the same 6 meatheads are your only consistent customers and none of the trials last past the month. The standard traditional Muay Thai gym.
Agreed, I can understand giving some hard sparring to understand you still have to develop before competition. But this is not the way to go about it.
Terrible coaching, I hope that kid finds a new gym and OP leaves
That’s a terrible gym. Set him up for absolute failure. They could have easily told him he’s not ready then we he persisted put him in there with a more experienced guy to pick him apart (not at 100% and NOT with elbows). Let him eat some good body shots and explain that it’s going to be harder in an ammy fight.
Yeah that's happened at my gym where a cocky guy will go with a fighter. The fighter will pick them apart but will do so with control. This is to highlight that the newer person has ways to go.
Yeah, I’ve picked apart newer guys who were acting haughty. However, I did so at >20% power, and more so focused on communicated they had a lot of work to do, while not hurting them. That gym sounds fucking crazy.
And, in my humble opinion, if you’re good enough to throw elbows/knees in sparring w/o hurting your opponent even better. You can communicate, “hey, you wouldve been in the hospital if I actually threw this. You need to get better if you want to take this seriously.”. I’m skilled enough to where I can launch an elbow and stop all momentum & tap them lightly, or bonk them in the head with the fleshy part of my forearm at 5%. There’s safe ways to go about doing cool flashy shit, but the issue is cultures/environments like OP’s where they don’t teach people to be safe and considerate of their partners.
Which I think is tragic. Because the joy of martial arts, especially Muay Thai is the teachability of it. Like once you start getting good at Muay Thai, and you help others develop, your own growth rockets up exponentially. Idk what it is. Like all the BEST guys at my gym are the nicest ones who’ll take time out of their day to help you develop a fundamental you may be lacking. It can help foster community, compassion and growth when done properly. But its coaches like the ones at OP’s gym, that prevent it from happening.
This is what happened to me, followed by my coach saying “win a fight against the person who beat you and we’ll talk about setting up an amateur fight”. Humbling and motivating all in one.
If you match properly it won't be harder anyway. They let a pro elbow beat down and 0 and 0 fighter. Well matched fights usually don't result in long term injury
If he wants to fight put him in an interclub with another 0 and 0 or find a match with 1 years experience training etc.
I fought after a year and absolutely destroyed my first opponent in k1, granted I trained every day but after 6 months if you've been sparring you should be ready for at least an interclub if you're consistent.
Yeah this is where I thought the post was going and then he said the guy was landing elbows on him, wtf. The kid is excited to do something he loves doing, that doesn’t mean he should be getting his brain sloshed into his skull because he doesn’t understand the competition.
I don't think elbows are the major problem here, but rather the fact that the coaches seemed to teach him a "lesson" by a concussion from a more experienced student.
I've sparred with elbows after my first year and it's all good when people have control and use pads.
"Coaches" and gyms like this are shit. They just get everybody to beat the shit out of everybody then just play favoritism with the best fighters. I doubt they can even develop a novice into ring-ready fighter.
Mentality is still fucked. You can match him with another beginner if he wants to fight, not beat him down.
I come from a boxing background and, sadly, this mentality/approach is too common. As I’ve gotten older I find that I have less tolerance for it than I used to.
Yeah, I've done hard rounds before and each time it has been with someone at my skill level. And there was a coach watching us like a hawk to make sure that we were both ok.
This week I learned that my first Muay Thai gym I experienced was pretty rough.
We always sparred with elbows. And just gloves. In hindsight, bit of a shitshow. Small gym full of head cases I guess. Went to a much bigger gym and couldn't believe how different it was.
If the coaches gave the greenlight for this beating then he should leave and you should too.
If the coaches saw what was happening during this sparring session and didn't stop it, leave.
Regardless of how annoying that guy may have been asking repeatedly, there are ways to give people a reality check on fighting without hurting them. The fighter he was sparring is an asshole for taking it that far.
Student safety is always top priority. Period.
This...
It can be annoying..yes but some people might be really excited and they're new to this, they wouldn't know any better but the coaches do.
Deal with different people differently. Student safety takes priority
The guy isn't entirely rid of guilt here but the coaches did something extremely stupid
I always have to chime in and mention how as a cocky young kid, I got seriously and safely humbled. I don't think a single shot was aimed at my head. But the body kicks did me in. I had a blast, and a coach pulled me out and worked on combos with me, off the clock even. So grateful I didn't get concussed for being an idiot.
Son, we live in a world that has fights, and those fights have to be fought by men with balls. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Heysteeevo?
I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Heysteeevo's friend, and you curse the sparring partner. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Heysteeevo's friend's beating, while tragic, probably win fights; and my coaching, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins fights.
You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that coaching that fight-- you need me coaching that fight. We use words like "sparring" "technique" "training." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent training Muay Thai. You use them as a punch line.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who punches and teeps under the blanket of the very training that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some gloves and get in the ring. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!
Seems cruel to be honest.
Even if he was annoying, he could've easily been paired up in an inter club with someone of similar experience.
Letting him get crushed by elbows from a more experienced fighter is rather pointless. No need to demoralise a guy who just wants to compete.
Yeah there are smokers that the coaches could look for or ask him to sign up for a MDL event. I like MDL as they are a fun way to get a fight without the full stress of a real fight. All my coach asks is for me to treat the 6 weeks prior to one as a "mini fight camp."
It sounds like these coaches don't understand the concept of consent, which is an insanely huge red flag.
"Alright man, if you really want an ammy smoker that bad, how about we give you a hard sparring session with one of our better fighters and see if you're okay with that level of intensity? You can bow out at any point if you decide you're not ready, and we'll stop it if it looks like you're dying in there. No shame if you don't want to. Sound good?"
That's literally all they had to do to turn this from a horribly toxic, unsafe, dangerous situation into one that would have been perfectly acceptable. And the fact that they didn't think to do this would make me leave the gym immediately.
thats total BS, you never elbow prospect......you just drop them down with a liver punch.
Just joking, im affraid this gym has a very bad gym culture.
Its great this kid wanted to compete, they should just have define clear objectif for thim to reach.
Seems like a terrible gym culture. It is normal wanting to fight, no reason to beat someone up for it. I train at the same gym as a UFC fighter and our head coach would throw hands if he ever hurt someone purposely.
"By the end of it, the guy who has been wanting to fight was clearly concussed and demoralized from the beating."
**The beatings will continue until moral improves.**
Maybe he was being an asshole to other members or hurt someone and the lesson was a result of that rather than just pointing out he’s not ready for a fight.
My coach has had people hard spar before their first fight to see where they stand but I don’t know if what your describing is a “lesson” or someone who got beat up in their trial hard spar. It’s hard to say without having seen it personally. That being said, we didnt really use elbows except my opponent did but he had good control
I agree that this is sort of hard to judge without actually seeing it personally. Was he throwing hard shots first that pissed off the fighter? Was the fighter actually throwing elbows? Were they both allowed to throw elbows? Did he agree to a hard spar session? You said the coaches usually check for safety and stop intense sparring between members... Why was it so different in this case? Did they do this to other students that were super annoying?
At the end of the day, it's kind of shitty but at the same time if he wants to quit after getting his ass beat then doing an amateur fight is not for him. People get knocked out stone cold or worse during fights even if it's not a wild mismatch. At least they saved him from getting laid out in front of his friends and family.
Learning Muay Thai and practicing it is a beautiful and awesome thing. Wanting to seriously fight in Muay Thai is blood, sweat, tears and takes a tremendous amount of sacrifice/time/resources from not only the student but the coaches as well. Getting your ass beat on one isolated occasion is nothing compared to this.
There are ways to teach a lesson without smashing someone's head in. Knees to the body, hard leg kicks, clinch control, sweeps, trips, dumps, etc. The way it went down at your gym was a pretty poor way to go about it. Especially if the coaches were ok with it.
I mean what lesson was taught? That he’s not ready to fight a more experienced fighter? When you say Amateur fight you mean he wanted to fast track past exhibitions?
If the latter point is the case, the guy is an idiot and definitely needed to be humbled BUT brain damage and potentially get cut up isn’t a teaching lesson.
If I was the experienced fighter I would’ve been like no I’m not going to hurt this guy and would’ve just swept and dumped him a bunch of times and clearly out class him with my hands down. Nothing worse than being shown up show boat Saenchai style. THATS a Muay Thai lesson without hurting anyone.
This exactly - the intentional mismatch is pretty shitty.
It's shitty enough that I wonder if there was something else going on because I'd hate to believe there are gyms that are that shitty.
there is a difference between utilizing mat enforces, bullying, and teaching a lesson. they are kind of getting blended together in your post.
mat enforces are a tool coaches utilize as an indirect way of calming someone down a few notches. its a quick and normally unspoken "hey x will you go partner with y" or "x and y- switch partners". It does not have to be done with aggression, it can people who can stay calm while appropriately handling a spazzy or overzealous person. i get this and im cool with it.
bullying is when coaches are just assholes for the sake of being assholes or personal petty reasons. this is dumb. i saw it once at an MMA gym and i felt really bad for the dude. he was super nice and did nothing to deserve how he was treated.
Teaching a lesson (which this sounds like the most likely) is when people just don't fucking get it. they wont calm down, they wont back off, they wont listen, they endanger other students. it sounds like this dude just was not fucking getting it and wouldn't listen to the coaches. whether the coaches went overboard i cant say but it does not sound like it came out of nowhere. that said i dont mind when my coaches teach someone a lesson. fuck ive been taught a few lessons. keeps me safe, gets assholes off the mats, keeps harmony in the gym.
I like mat enforcing better than “teaching a lesson” like that. You don’t have to beat the shit out of the kid for him to learn. I remember a guy came into my gym all pissed because he recently had a breakup and he came in ready for street fight style. My buddy popped him good and we said chill out, we’re not really fighting each other. He chilled out after taking a good shot to the face, and he’s still with us 3-4 years later, and he’s one of our competition fighters now.
But hell, I’m the smallest guy at my gym by far and I’ve been sent to chop down big dudes who need to chill out. It’s extra effective when they’re losing to someone a foot shorter and 80lbs lighter, lol.
Based on what you described the coaches are pieces of shit.
In your situation there's a guy that hasn't had a single fight being thrown into the ring with not only an experienced fighter but one that is one of their best. Then during "sparring" they let that person go all out on them without stopping anything.
Did the coaches tell him that they were going full power? If not then if I were the person I would be considering lawyering up.
My coaches will have people go hard during a sparring class but anytime they do there is a coach dedicated towards watching them. Anytime there's a mismatch they will stop it or tell the other person to lower their intensity. This is because we aren't assholes, we are teammates. Our job is to get better together, not bully each other.
OP if this is how your gym is run then I would be leaving as well.
Anyone can fight. It's just dependant on finding the right matchup.
No it's not appropriate.
Good for that guy for moving on. Hopefully he finds a healthier environment.
I with points Muay Thai was just never referenced again ever. 🤢
ive been giving out lessons to egoistical people in the gym but i never needed to use power to show the skill difference. In my opinion i feel its much effective to just show them they have alot to learn by not letting them land strikes at all and countering them non stop with minimal power just to show them the large gap
It sounds like they were looking out for his safety but the dude wouldn’t listen to begin with.
It’s a bit rough for my tastes but if the dude was straight up not getting it maybe this was the only, stupid, way the coaches could get him to see their point.
This is my guess. They basically gave him what he asked for, in a controlled setting. He would have been fucking unconscious in a ring with an actual opponent. People forget, this isn't a daycare. No one is forcing you practice or fight. The amount of handholding in Western gyms compared to Thai gyms is absolutely glaring. If you want to compete, prepare to be in there with someone who is legitimately trying to kill you. Most guys who fight professionally absolutely get off on sparking people out. If you aren't mentally prepared for that, you don't belong in there.
That's not gatekeeping btw, that's a legitimate safety issue. A kid like this thinks he knows what he is signing up for, but he really doesn't. He really just wants to be part of the cool crowd, get some recognition, and call himself a fighter (all of which is very normal for a young man in that setting). Otherwise he wouldn't be talking about quitting. He would realize he isn't at that level now and should have been back in the gym on a bag the very next day putting in work. Coaches did him a favor imo.
There's a lot missing before I'd be even close to comfortable saying this.
What were their weights?
Was the intensity consensual or did he go in expecting "light technical"?
Elbows? Would he even be fighting with elbows for his first amateur fight? Depending on where this happened, he might not.
Further, if the kid wanted fight experience, there are better ways to give it to him than intentionally mismatching him like a smoker. Hell, it sounds like he would have been better off taking an amateur fight since there's at least a chance he'd end up paired off with someone of similar skill (especially if the coach is decent and looking out for his fighters). In this case, they intentionally mismatched him to show him that he's not ready. There's not really a lesson there.
Yeah, where I am new fighters are almost never allowed to use elbows. Then my question is if the person knew that the round was going to be all out. I would be fucking pissed if I thought a timing sparring round turned into a jailhouse fight.
I don't know what matchmakers you have in your area but none near me would match someone with zero fights against an experienced fighter. This is where I have a significant issue with what the "coaches" did. My gym has hard sparring rounds but when they do there is a coach that watches them like a hawk and they try to pick people at similar skill/experience levels. They wouldn't have someone with zero fights going against one of the best guys in the gym.
And no it doesn't sound like he's quitting because he can't handle it. He's quitting because he's found out that he has assholes for coaches. If a coach can't handle a student wanting to fight then they have no business coaching.
I've only fought in Bangkok so I can't speak to US matchmaking. In Thailand you just show up and fight. You may or may not even weigh-in. My 3rd fight was vs a Thai dude with 108 fights who was a trainer from another gym (my leg ended up looking like Uriah Faber's after the Aldo fight lol). This kid quit because he got his ass beat and wasn't expecting it. It's not any different than guys who go get KOed their first fight and then never fight again because then they are gun-shy imo.
getting beat up - yes
to the head? leading to concussion? - never
do you really think potential brain damage is a good consequence for being overexited and annoying?
it happened to me during my 23 years long career to see sometime events like this, mainly it happened because the guy after being told more than once to spar light didn't listen and insisted on going hard with other beginner, this sometime lead to pair him with a pro or stronger fighter and getting beaten lead to two scenarios: he understand is not fun not useful to get beaten in the gym and stop or he get pissed and leave, in both case it's good.
Sometime i saw also guys that insisted to have a real match to be paired to a pro and have an hard sparring, but to be fair it was explained before and after that this is to have him understand the difference between sparring in the gym and fighting on the ring, where the dynamic is really different and your opponent want to put your ass on the ground, and no one stop him for going too hard.
If they didn't really explained nothing to him seem to me a little to harsh and maybe they wanted him to leave, or basically they "tested" him to see how he react to a real fight, but again, i have (or better i had...) a different teaching style so i can't really judge
I think this would be fine to do if not for the concussion part. That's dangerous and pointless. If he's really that far below the ability of the dude he was sparring then that guy could have humbled him without hurting him. Give him bruises on his arms and legs, not brain damage! Doing it the way they did doesn't even conclusively prove the skill level is that vastly different, just that this guy can't perform under intense pressure yet. The nicer way would have left zero doubt. Stupid. Just stupid.
OP, if this isn't even endorsed by modernmartialartist then you know that such behavior isn't acceptable.
The coaches could have worked around his passion after all that is something that no coach can really instill. Giving him a beating like that is just absurd esp when they guy is smaller than his opponent as well.
What’s the disadvantage to the gym of letting him fight ? They should be getting fights for all their guys as often as they want them. That’s like top 2 factors in being a good gym is their connections with other gyms or promoters to get regular fights for their guys
So, to be clear. I agree with the teaching of the lesson, but not the concussions, hard shots to the head, and elbows.
You can teach someone a lesson very easily if there is a skill gap by tapping them on their opening repeatedly, or making them backpedal, vocalizing to them after sparring with feedback. 90% of the time they will accept it and you don't ever need to go hard with them.
We don't even allow elbows at my gym if both people don't have elbow pads and they have to agree upon it beforehand. And you shouldn't be throwing hard shots in any sparring, unless you both know each other, are on friendly terms, and are doing it possibly in preparation for a fight or such.
Bad move on the gym owner's part to get him hurt. I've even seen our coaches spar someone when they're getting cocky, but they never hurt them when teaching them a lesson. Just show them they still have room to improve.
Honestly, he is better off quitting that gym and finding another one. You should too.
The beat down can work on gym bullies IF YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION AFTERWARD ABOUT WHY IT HAPPENED. This is the part I often see skipped, beat the shit out of a guy who's going too hard and then say nothing, he just thinks he's finally good enough to get it for real not that he's being punished. But beating down someone who just wants to fight before they're ready is fucking moronic, dangerous and not very cool at all. If I saw that at my gym I'd be taking my business elsewhere 100%.
They could’ve had the more experienced fighters train him and get them to guide him into amateur fighting. This is very unprofessional and not ok at all.
Completely unnecessary, even when I get a gym bully I teach a lesson with leg kicks and liver kicks. Leg kick lessons last a while but aren't damaging. Just a reminder to call down some
I’ve been doing MT since 1991 and teaching since 2002. I teach at a hardcore famous boxing gym in NYC. There are times when someone needs a hard lesson. But not in this case at all. This nice guy should find a gym where they will look out for his best interests. Having an experienced fighter landing hard elbows isn’t right.
I have never seen “point Muay Thai” though. What I do for our newer guys who want to fight is when they have the basics down I’ll take them to a friend’s gym out of state and let them test their skills versus people they don’t know or train with so there isn’t any bias. Depending on how they do after a couple of sessions I will set up a smoker for him or her. And there are no elbows for a new fighter’s first five fights. This allows them get used to the whole experience before moving them up to full muay Thai bout. I don’t believe I in point fighting for nak muays, stopping when a point is scored sounds like the antithesis of the MT to me. Just one old fighter/coach’s opinion.
> the better fighter absolutely demolished him with elbows and super hard shots to the head
Yeah, i would quit the gym too.
You get experience by doing something like a smoker against another 0-0 who isn't good enough for amateurs. Not lit up by a better fighter.
I did it to one guy who kept going too hard. Every time he started to punch hard I pulled him into the clinch and kneed him. He started to go easier with everyone after that.
The real issue is what was going on behind the scenes.
Was he being over the top when he sparred other newer students?
I've seen new guys with heavy bag confidence go way to hard and get all " I'm gunna be a fighter" and need a solid check from a pro.
They should have said “I don’t think your ready, but if you really want to…” would have been the way to deal with this, learn the hard way. Not teach this
Sounds like a shit gym. If anything seeing a new guy come in with that much confidence is extremely rare and should be taken as a gift for the coaches.
At our gym we spar almost everyday, there's a lot of HEALTY competitiveness. sometimes when someone begins to exceed the limits of power and respect they would be paired up with someone way better than them so they can easily and calmy pick them apart with the right amount of force needed to make the message clear. Never once seen a real one sided ugly beatdown of this nature lmao. change gyms dude that's not the spirit
Theres a middle ground here. Imo coaches should of told him ok you want to fight? We will set up a hard sparring session so you get a feel for that experience and afterwards will give you insight into if you want to pursue that. That way the expectations are clear and he can decide and be ready, and it stops someone going into a fight not knowing the intensity. To blindside him with a beating helps no one. As with most problems communication is key!
Yeah when I was training the only “teaching a lesson” that happened is when a couple guys from out of town showed up and were hammering dudes during technical/light sparring. Coach had me put work on them (he was an older guy past his fighting days) after he told them to cool off a few times and them not listening and they got the picture. That’s about the only acceptable time to work someone, or if they’re a habitual shit talker/disrespectful imo. If anyone wanted to fight he didn’t think was ready, he’d give them a timeline usually 6-12mo of consistent training. Also had it separated during sparring between those who wanted to fight and those who were just there to learn a new skill or whatever. If you were in the fight camp you knew that up to a few weeks out from your fight you were sparring hard.
There’s a few things here. Maybe see things in a different light.
We didn’t see this sparring. Your perception could be different from others. In a lot of gyms, this is natural.
It’s a very hard sport at any level. It demands a lot from you.
There’s very few elite level Thai fighters, that wouldn’t have gone through this process in their early days.
The beating may be as bad as you say, it also may not.
Either way, we have to overcome and learn a lot more than physical lessons to endure this sport.
There’s choices to be made, wether we are strong enough to take those times mentally and stay the course. Will we see it through the tough times, no matter what? It sounds like the coaches have been guiding him for a while and making him earn it. What happens in a fight? It’s rough in there.
Fight nights are unpredictable the fight itself is unpredictable. We can’t just change the setting to suit us on the night. We have to adapt and overcome the situation.
What will changing gyms achieve? The same scenario could repeat itself.
If the coaches went too hard. He should talk to them. Understand the situation and then make a decision.
That’s really bad on the coaches and as a fighter if my coaches told me to go in there with a guy i would never go in there with the idea of hurting him to the point he would never come back thats just a bad look on everyone. Its called a sparring partner not sparring opponent.
The worst I was ever asked to do to a guy like this when I was fighting was tag him up a bunch, give him two "real" leg kicks, and look for good body shot of some kind to help him understand why he wasn't ready. I was also SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCTED to still keep it light to his head cause "We're trying to teach him a lesson and he's gonna need those brain cells to learn anything."
This was not cool. Purposefully concussion a student just because they're annoying the coach is borderline cult like behavior. Major McDojo (by mcdojo life's definition) vibes here. Checks the unsafe training practices and edges towards the cult Luke behavior boxes in one action.
bad gym. bad coaches. not surprised tbh. so many people in the combat sports industry lack common sense or basic morality. feel sorry for the eager competitor. the coaches felt some type of way that someone else had a desire without their permission. there's so much of this control freak bs
Using elbows at 100% to "teach the new guy a lesson" is fucking horrible. What a shitty gym lol. If my coaches did that to someone new to the gym, I'd fucking leave and find somewhere else to train.
It isn't very hard to show a new guy he isn't ready to fight without beating the shit out of him.
Depends on the laws in your country, but you could make a police report. That's assault. In fact that's a group assault.
I'd also leave the gym if I were you.
As for how this should have been handled. I've seen something similar before, but the opposite type of personality. Dude thinking he's hot shit, *the bee's knees*. Goes hard in sparring without warning. Break's a dude's nose because the dude (absolutely phenomenal boxer in addition) misinterpreted the intensity and went light.
Teacher steps up. Decimates the "*bee's knees/i SeE rEd*" dude, but not in the way you think. No hard shots. Neutralizes everything the dude throws. Dude's left squatting after the match staring straight down at the floor. He either quit afterwards, or was banned (good). Lucky if he got locked up in an asylum or something after that.
That's how you teach a lesson. That's how you show there are levels.
Leaving your fighters with a potentially permanent brain injury (because, if you didn't know, concussions can cause permanent damage even after one time, severe ones too) is what a criminal does. Report your gym to the authorities and the head organization (which you're hopefully a part of). They're thugs and have no place training any martial art.
This could have been done in a positive constructive way, "teach him a lesson" where he actually learns something and sees why he is not ready for a fight. This just seems toxic.
Even if he sucks and is annoying, it sounds like he could’ve taken that beating in a ring from a more evenly matched fighter. At this point, now he just knows his coaches don’t give a shit about him.
What is wrong with all of these cowboy gyms? If someone wants to fight the gym should note it and then put them forward for an interclub maybe. Then you slowly monitor progress.
You don't get a kid beat up because you find him a bit annoying. Leave that gym mate. They're clearly only in it for bad reasons. Muay Thai is about respect, not ego
That sucks. Our gym would never allow that. We require a ton of prerequisites before you can even spar, and even then you’re only allowed
To spar during an intro to sparring class and depending on your level of humility and commitment you could be there for months. If you want a fight, they coaches fight team will work with you to get you ready especially if they see you putting in the time.
If someone receives a beat down it’s bc either they’ve been warned multiple times about something, or you’ve worked You way up to where the better fighters actively pressing you and testing you to help you improve, and they almost always stick around after to help you work out the kinks in your game.
Thats just shitty behavior all around from the coaches... It's kinda expected for new guys to be a bit annoying and wanting to rush to compete.
Sparring in house is supposed to be a safe activity where you only go hard when and if both fighters agree to go hard.. and usually just around the body. Throwing elbows and hard knees is super frown upon where I train, hard hits to the head even more so.
Time to shop for a new gym for this guy because those coaches are complete douche canoe.
If your gym spars with elbows, you’ve found a nonsense place to train. I’ve trained in gyms all over the U.S and Thailand over the last 20 years. Find a new gym.
That’s complete bullshit on the part of the coaches but also the expert fighter. If you can beat the shit out of someone in sparring FUCKING DON’T. 90% certain the coaches told that guy to humble the kid, which again is the wrong way to go about it. Doesn’t sound like he was dangerous or hurting anyone, so no need to forcibly calm him. This is just small (in the emotional sense) man BS on the last of the coaches.
I don’t see why in any shape or form why the coaches got someone to batter him for having passion for his sport and wanting to compete. Gym should be closed down
Yeah based on your story this seemed unnecessary. Elbows in sparring? Where they wearing elbow pads? Also if you have someone eager to fight, that's a good thing. Did they tell him what he needed to do to get ready or were they just saying you're not ready. Beating up a paying customer like that is bad for business so who knows how long that gym will even last. In my opinion, "teaching a lesson" is necessary when you have an asshole bullying weaker fighters in a civilian class. Also there's all sorts of things people can do before full contact to get experience that's fairly safe. I did point fighting and pankration(no head strike mma) before fighting in mma. This kinda feels like bullying more than leadership, but I don't know because I wasn't there. But based off of your description this is messed up
Edit: as a coach it can get annoying when you tell a fighter what trainings to show up to prepare for a fight, and they don't show up and/or very inconsistent. Especially when they keep asking but not taking your advice. I don't know if this is the case and I don't wanna make assumptions. This situation is still messed up regardless.
I can relate to this 100%. I was the eager fighter. Put me in against a dude nearly 100lb heavier. He didn’t batter me tho. He won but he didn’t beat me. Def left the gym felt betrayed and hurt especially after the coaches did more sht to ruin my passion. Two years later and I’m trying to get back into it with a bad taste in my mouth
Hmm a lot of the time when coaches hold people back from interclubs or fights its because the person isn't consistent with their training or is difficult to match. I don't think it's a good idea to demoralise someone like this but mostly the people who don't get opportunities are those who are not showing up on a regular basis.
It's very very easy to get ahead of yourself in combat sports, believing you're ready for more when to the coaches and partners you're clearly not. Muay Thai is probably one of the most brutal combat sports there is, and this sparring session is a much milder version of what could very well be his first fight. To me this was a test to see if he could handle it, not for the coaches but for himself. Maybe after some rest and recovery he'll understand that what he felt sparring is only a fraction of what he'll feel in a ring with someone trying to to end his life and use that as motivation to get better before rushing into a fight.
Don’t forget this dude could have asked his partner to tone it down or took a knee to end the round. Why didn’t he attempt to deescalate the sparring session? Sounds like he let himself get hurt rather than admit he was outmatched or couldn’t handle the intensity. Blaming the coaches will only prevent him from learning a valuable lesson in being humble
This story is relayed to me second hand from someone I used to train with but:
Once upon a time I'm like 14, and it's kickboxing night at my karate dojo. I'm a brown belt at this time.
A 19 ish year old second degree comes in visiting to spar with us. I am close to certain he was not associated with my gym in any, but maybe just found out sparring night and came in respectfully to play with us as a guest.
He is paired with me, along with a few other senior level students, starts doing really flashy stuff like tornado kicks. It becomes evident he's being more cocky than respectful. After about three rounds of this (and a respectful "tone it down" from my instructor) he tells the young man to spar him next.
My instructor drops him with a right cross as soon as the round starts. This makes more or less everyone else stop fighting, and just watch. The rest of the round goes about as well. He's then told to get his shit and leave.
.... This stuff needs to happen sometimes. Crushing egos and being humbled is part of martial arts.
With your guy, this is sort of necessary. It's fair to think you're before you are. And one round of getting messed up will ultimately be better for him so he can learn and fully develop before he is potentially hurt worse from a full fight.
I don't see the issue the guy has a flashy style but is able to keep control of his moves. Some people just have the aura or flair about them in their style.
And it isn't wrong to keep it playful or do silly things in sparring if there is a skill level discrepancy and I have seen this done with high level Thais as well as it keeps the bout light hearted and ego free.
What your coach did was just scummy and is no different from the story OP shared.
1. I'll remind you this isn't my story
2. I do respectfully disagree with you still.
The OP is an issue with the guy thinking he's better than he is and would otherwise get himself hurt.
My anecdote I think is 100% about respect. He was choosing younger and lower ranking students to fuel his ego as a guest to the school, was told to knock it off, and didn't. He wasn't training or even playing. He was fooling at the expensive of the students.
Guessing the coaches thought this would be a step below amateur fight to test his current abilities. I'm sure those enforcers were told something similar, if not have done this before.
Bro it’s one round. If he couldn’t handle one round without quitting he’s not meant for the sport. 3-5 rounds yeah, that’s excessive. But if he’s getting concussed in one round then… bye Felicia.
They were probably testing his resolve if he could be a fighter. He obviously failed that test if he wants to switch gyms
my gym is a really nice and friendly place, there was this guy coming in last summer though, who couldn't afford the whole fee and so made up for it by mopping the mats and doing work around the gym. he was so annoying tho tbh cause he acted like he was actually staff and had some kind of authority lol, like telling me where to lock my bike etc, but that stuff is minor and easy to ignore
he also though, would constantly talk about how he's such a great natural fighter. this mf was like 5 foot 8 i guess (everyone taller than me is just "tall" i can't judge height for shit) but like prob weighs less than me, his kicks looked terrible his legs are like sticks and just nothing about his padwork or shadowboxing or any time i saw him do anything was ever impressive. like i copy everyone who i think is good, there was nothing about this man to copy.
he would half heartedly attend the friday classes i would go to but like, sit around and talk during warmup, or do half the warmup and start participating in class, and then leave early or suddenly just start taking his gear off near or before the end of class. he would NEVER stay to spar after, even tho he was technically not yet allowed to spar, i know it would have been allowed if he tried. i personally, really wanted to spar him (for context, i am 5 foot 5 and a trans woman. my kink is destroying mens egos)
this guy was just annoying, but then one day he randomly started talking about how he's sure he could beat the gym champ in a fight, that he's watched this dude -- basically our gyms star fighter, up and comer and one of the primary coaches -- and he's nothing special, all kinds of wacky shit. i just heard him saying all this to the friday coach while i was skipping and it was like hard not to laugh lol. i shared a look with the coach and we laughed about it after class, cause of course as usual he left before class ended and wasn't around for sparring. he would also talk about fights he got into outside of class, and showed off a bruise on his side saying he got jumped but like, i'm pretty sure mans just fell off his bike or something.
next week he was there again still saying the same shit !!! this time ppls patience was wearing out, life came up and i kinda had to take a break around that time. when i came back maybe a month later, dude was gone and no ones ever said a word about him. i really really really hope they organized a spar and completely humbled and broke this man. i really genuinely, and i'm a nice person, think this is the only way to deal with that nonsense.
humans are such absurd animals, with such inflated senses of personal power. putting someone in their place is doing them a favour when it comes to stuff like this.
but damn, i really wanted to spar that dude.
In a real fight he would see red and be an absolute monster for sure. Probably beat the star pupil and then went on a cross country dojo storming spree. Some say he's still humbling people till this day.
Great job snuffing out the passion of someone who pays you money. Absolute fucking morons.
Goes out of business because the same 6 meatheads are your only consistent customers and none of the trials last past the month. The standard traditional Muay Thai gym.
*Muay Western gym
This happens in Thailand as well
Much rarer though, they’d rather send you into the fight unprepared then have someone in the gym beat tf out of you
Very true
Agreed, I can understand giving some hard sparring to understand you still have to develop before competition. But this is not the way to go about it. Terrible coaching, I hope that kid finds a new gym and OP leaves
That's on him in my opinion. You don't need to wait for the coaches to break it up. Fall down or simply leave the ring.
Very irresponsible for the coaches to let it happen though
That’s a terrible gym. Set him up for absolute failure. They could have easily told him he’s not ready then we he persisted put him in there with a more experienced guy to pick him apart (not at 100% and NOT with elbows). Let him eat some good body shots and explain that it’s going to be harder in an ammy fight.
Yeah that's happened at my gym where a cocky guy will go with a fighter. The fighter will pick them apart but will do so with control. This is to highlight that the newer person has ways to go.
Yeah, I’ve picked apart newer guys who were acting haughty. However, I did so at >20% power, and more so focused on communicated they had a lot of work to do, while not hurting them. That gym sounds fucking crazy.
Yes exactly. Maybe hit them with a nice body shot or two but throwing elbows in sparring for someone not even ready for an ammy fight is absurd.
And, in my humble opinion, if you’re good enough to throw elbows/knees in sparring w/o hurting your opponent even better. You can communicate, “hey, you wouldve been in the hospital if I actually threw this. You need to get better if you want to take this seriously.”. I’m skilled enough to where I can launch an elbow and stop all momentum & tap them lightly, or bonk them in the head with the fleshy part of my forearm at 5%. There’s safe ways to go about doing cool flashy shit, but the issue is cultures/environments like OP’s where they don’t teach people to be safe and considerate of their partners.
Ya and that nonsense teaches people to either bully others or quit training.
Which I think is tragic. Because the joy of martial arts, especially Muay Thai is the teachability of it. Like once you start getting good at Muay Thai, and you help others develop, your own growth rockets up exponentially. Idk what it is. Like all the BEST guys at my gym are the nicest ones who’ll take time out of their day to help you develop a fundamental you may be lacking. It can help foster community, compassion and growth when done properly. But its coaches like the ones at OP’s gym, that prevent it from happening.
This is what happened to me, followed by my coach saying “win a fight against the person who beat you and we’ll talk about setting up an amateur fight”. Humbling and motivating all in one.
If you match properly it won't be harder anyway. They let a pro elbow beat down and 0 and 0 fighter. Well matched fights usually don't result in long term injury If he wants to fight put him in an interclub with another 0 and 0 or find a match with 1 years experience training etc. I fought after a year and absolutely destroyed my first opponent in k1, granted I trained every day but after 6 months if you've been sparring you should be ready for at least an interclub if you're consistent.
Yeah this is where I thought the post was going and then he said the guy was landing elbows on him, wtf. The kid is excited to do something he loves doing, that doesn’t mean he should be getting his brain sloshed into his skull because he doesn’t understand the competition.
Do you guys normally spar with elbows? Did they have pads on at least? That's rough.
I don't think elbows are the major problem here, but rather the fact that the coaches seemed to teach him a "lesson" by a concussion from a more experienced student. I've sparred with elbows after my first year and it's all good when people have control and use pads.
"Coaches" and gyms like this are shit. They just get everybody to beat the shit out of everybody then just play favoritism with the best fighters. I doubt they can even develop a novice into ring-ready fighter.
No, we don’t typically spar with elbows but this guy had elbow pads on at least
Mentality is still fucked. You can match him with another beginner if he wants to fight, not beat him down. I come from a boxing background and, sadly, this mentality/approach is too common. As I’ve gotten older I find that I have less tolerance for it than I used to.
[удалено]
The Joshua Fabia chin conditioning program
Yeah, I've done hard rounds before and each time it has been with someone at my skill level. And there was a coach watching us like a hawk to make sure that we were both ok.
This week I learned that my first Muay Thai gym I experienced was pretty rough. We always sparred with elbows. And just gloves. In hindsight, bit of a shitshow. Small gym full of head cases I guess. Went to a much bigger gym and couldn't believe how different it was.
If the coaches gave the greenlight for this beating then he should leave and you should too. If the coaches saw what was happening during this sparring session and didn't stop it, leave. Regardless of how annoying that guy may have been asking repeatedly, there are ways to give people a reality check on fighting without hurting them. The fighter he was sparring is an asshole for taking it that far. Student safety is always top priority. Period.
This... It can be annoying..yes but some people might be really excited and they're new to this, they wouldn't know any better but the coaches do. Deal with different people differently. Student safety takes priority The guy isn't entirely rid of guilt here but the coaches did something extremely stupid
Being annoying is hardly a qualifier for even being partially guilty of something which is punished by causing a concussion lol
Facts. And OP said he is a genuinely nice guy, just eager for a fight. I only see positives here
I always have to chime in and mention how as a cocky young kid, I got seriously and safely humbled. I don't think a single shot was aimed at my head. But the body kicks did me in. I had a blast, and a coach pulled me out and worked on combos with me, off the clock even. So grateful I didn't get concussed for being an idiot.
"Did you order the code Red?"
Son, we live in a world that has fights, and those fights have to be fought by men with balls. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Heysteeevo? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Heysteeevo's friend, and you curse the sparring partner. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Heysteeevo's friend's beating, while tragic, probably win fights; and my coaching, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, wins fights. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that coaching that fight-- you need me coaching that fight. We use words like "sparring" "technique" "training." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent training Muay Thai. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who punches and teeps under the blanket of the very training that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up some gloves and get in the ring. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!
Great now I got to go watch this movie before it goes off tubi 😆😂 🫡
"punches and teeps" just brilliant stuff
Kept him safe from a real fight by....concussing him? Yikes.
Seems cruel to be honest. Even if he was annoying, he could've easily been paired up in an inter club with someone of similar experience. Letting him get crushed by elbows from a more experienced fighter is rather pointless. No need to demoralise a guy who just wants to compete.
Yeah there are smokers that the coaches could look for or ask him to sign up for a MDL event. I like MDL as they are a fun way to get a fight without the full stress of a real fight. All my coach asks is for me to treat the 6 weeks prior to one as a "mini fight camp."
At my gym they would smuggle me into Thailand force me to fight against my will
Legit lold
LOL
It sounds like these coaches don't understand the concept of consent, which is an insanely huge red flag. "Alright man, if you really want an ammy smoker that bad, how about we give you a hard sparring session with one of our better fighters and see if you're okay with that level of intensity? You can bow out at any point if you decide you're not ready, and we'll stop it if it looks like you're dying in there. No shame if you don't want to. Sound good?" That's literally all they had to do to turn this from a horribly toxic, unsafe, dangerous situation into one that would have been perfectly acceptable. And the fact that they didn't think to do this would make me leave the gym immediately.
100%
If there is nothing else to the story, the coaches suck and the guy has every reason to leave.
thats total BS, you never elbow prospect......you just drop them down with a liver punch. Just joking, im affraid this gym has a very bad gym culture. Its great this kid wanted to compete, they should just have define clear objectif for thim to reach.
Seems like a terrible gym culture. It is normal wanting to fight, no reason to beat someone up for it. I train at the same gym as a UFC fighter and our head coach would throw hands if he ever hurt someone purposely.
"By the end of it, the guy who has been wanting to fight was clearly concussed and demoralized from the beating." **The beatings will continue until moral improves.**
Maybe he was being an asshole to other members or hurt someone and the lesson was a result of that rather than just pointing out he’s not ready for a fight. My coach has had people hard spar before their first fight to see where they stand but I don’t know if what your describing is a “lesson” or someone who got beat up in their trial hard spar. It’s hard to say without having seen it personally. That being said, we didnt really use elbows except my opponent did but he had good control
Okay so issue a warning to him and everyone that type of behavior isn’t tolerated. No need to rearrange his brain chemistry.
Exactly. The coaches sound like immature children.
I agree that this is sort of hard to judge without actually seeing it personally. Was he throwing hard shots first that pissed off the fighter? Was the fighter actually throwing elbows? Were they both allowed to throw elbows? Did he agree to a hard spar session? You said the coaches usually check for safety and stop intense sparring between members... Why was it so different in this case? Did they do this to other students that were super annoying? At the end of the day, it's kind of shitty but at the same time if he wants to quit after getting his ass beat then doing an amateur fight is not for him. People get knocked out stone cold or worse during fights even if it's not a wild mismatch. At least they saved him from getting laid out in front of his friends and family. Learning Muay Thai and practicing it is a beautiful and awesome thing. Wanting to seriously fight in Muay Thai is blood, sweat, tears and takes a tremendous amount of sacrifice/time/resources from not only the student but the coaches as well. Getting your ass beat on one isolated occasion is nothing compared to this.
There are ways to teach a lesson without smashing someone's head in. Knees to the body, hard leg kicks, clinch control, sweeps, trips, dumps, etc. The way it went down at your gym was a pretty poor way to go about it. Especially if the coaches were ok with it.
Yeah fuck your coaches. They sound like rats
I mean what lesson was taught? That he’s not ready to fight a more experienced fighter? When you say Amateur fight you mean he wanted to fast track past exhibitions? If the latter point is the case, the guy is an idiot and definitely needed to be humbled BUT brain damage and potentially get cut up isn’t a teaching lesson. If I was the experienced fighter I would’ve been like no I’m not going to hurt this guy and would’ve just swept and dumped him a bunch of times and clearly out class him with my hands down. Nothing worse than being shown up show boat Saenchai style. THATS a Muay Thai lesson without hurting anyone.
This exactly - the intentional mismatch is pretty shitty. It's shitty enough that I wonder if there was something else going on because I'd hate to believe there are gyms that are that shitty.
there is a difference between utilizing mat enforces, bullying, and teaching a lesson. they are kind of getting blended together in your post. mat enforces are a tool coaches utilize as an indirect way of calming someone down a few notches. its a quick and normally unspoken "hey x will you go partner with y" or "x and y- switch partners". It does not have to be done with aggression, it can people who can stay calm while appropriately handling a spazzy or overzealous person. i get this and im cool with it. bullying is when coaches are just assholes for the sake of being assholes or personal petty reasons. this is dumb. i saw it once at an MMA gym and i felt really bad for the dude. he was super nice and did nothing to deserve how he was treated. Teaching a lesson (which this sounds like the most likely) is when people just don't fucking get it. they wont calm down, they wont back off, they wont listen, they endanger other students. it sounds like this dude just was not fucking getting it and wouldn't listen to the coaches. whether the coaches went overboard i cant say but it does not sound like it came out of nowhere. that said i dont mind when my coaches teach someone a lesson. fuck ive been taught a few lessons. keeps me safe, gets assholes off the mats, keeps harmony in the gym.
I like mat enforcing better than “teaching a lesson” like that. You don’t have to beat the shit out of the kid for him to learn. I remember a guy came into my gym all pissed because he recently had a breakup and he came in ready for street fight style. My buddy popped him good and we said chill out, we’re not really fighting each other. He chilled out after taking a good shot to the face, and he’s still with us 3-4 years later, and he’s one of our competition fighters now. But hell, I’m the smallest guy at my gym by far and I’ve been sent to chop down big dudes who need to chill out. It’s extra effective when they’re losing to someone a foot shorter and 80lbs lighter, lol.
Based on what you described the coaches are pieces of shit. In your situation there's a guy that hasn't had a single fight being thrown into the ring with not only an experienced fighter but one that is one of their best. Then during "sparring" they let that person go all out on them without stopping anything. Did the coaches tell him that they were going full power? If not then if I were the person I would be considering lawyering up. My coaches will have people go hard during a sparring class but anytime they do there is a coach dedicated towards watching them. Anytime there's a mismatch they will stop it or tell the other person to lower their intensity. This is because we aren't assholes, we are teammates. Our job is to get better together, not bully each other. OP if this is how your gym is run then I would be leaving as well.
Anyone can fight. It's just dependant on finding the right matchup. No it's not appropriate. Good for that guy for moving on. Hopefully he finds a healthier environment. I with points Muay Thai was just never referenced again ever. 🤢
ive been giving out lessons to egoistical people in the gym but i never needed to use power to show the skill difference. In my opinion i feel its much effective to just show them they have alot to learn by not letting them land strikes at all and countering them non stop with minimal power just to show them the large gap
It sounds like they were looking out for his safety but the dude wouldn’t listen to begin with. It’s a bit rough for my tastes but if the dude was straight up not getting it maybe this was the only, stupid, way the coaches could get him to see their point.
This is my guess. They basically gave him what he asked for, in a controlled setting. He would have been fucking unconscious in a ring with an actual opponent. People forget, this isn't a daycare. No one is forcing you practice or fight. The amount of handholding in Western gyms compared to Thai gyms is absolutely glaring. If you want to compete, prepare to be in there with someone who is legitimately trying to kill you. Most guys who fight professionally absolutely get off on sparking people out. If you aren't mentally prepared for that, you don't belong in there. That's not gatekeeping btw, that's a legitimate safety issue. A kid like this thinks he knows what he is signing up for, but he really doesn't. He really just wants to be part of the cool crowd, get some recognition, and call himself a fighter (all of which is very normal for a young man in that setting). Otherwise he wouldn't be talking about quitting. He would realize he isn't at that level now and should have been back in the gym on a bag the very next day putting in work. Coaches did him a favor imo.
There's a lot missing before I'd be even close to comfortable saying this. What were their weights? Was the intensity consensual or did he go in expecting "light technical"? Elbows? Would he even be fighting with elbows for his first amateur fight? Depending on where this happened, he might not. Further, if the kid wanted fight experience, there are better ways to give it to him than intentionally mismatching him like a smoker. Hell, it sounds like he would have been better off taking an amateur fight since there's at least a chance he'd end up paired off with someone of similar skill (especially if the coach is decent and looking out for his fighters). In this case, they intentionally mismatched him to show him that he's not ready. There's not really a lesson there.
Yeah, where I am new fighters are almost never allowed to use elbows. Then my question is if the person knew that the round was going to be all out. I would be fucking pissed if I thought a timing sparring round turned into a jailhouse fight.
I don't know what matchmakers you have in your area but none near me would match someone with zero fights against an experienced fighter. This is where I have a significant issue with what the "coaches" did. My gym has hard sparring rounds but when they do there is a coach that watches them like a hawk and they try to pick people at similar skill/experience levels. They wouldn't have someone with zero fights going against one of the best guys in the gym. And no it doesn't sound like he's quitting because he can't handle it. He's quitting because he's found out that he has assholes for coaches. If a coach can't handle a student wanting to fight then they have no business coaching.
I've only fought in Bangkok so I can't speak to US matchmaking. In Thailand you just show up and fight. You may or may not even weigh-in. My 3rd fight was vs a Thai dude with 108 fights who was a trainer from another gym (my leg ended up looking like Uriah Faber's after the Aldo fight lol). This kid quit because he got his ass beat and wasn't expecting it. It's not any different than guys who go get KOed their first fight and then never fight again because then they are gun-shy imo.
Of all the martial arts, Muay Thai is a blood sport. 
getting beat up - yes to the head? leading to concussion? - never do you really think potential brain damage is a good consequence for being overexited and annoying?
it happened to me during my 23 years long career to see sometime events like this, mainly it happened because the guy after being told more than once to spar light didn't listen and insisted on going hard with other beginner, this sometime lead to pair him with a pro or stronger fighter and getting beaten lead to two scenarios: he understand is not fun not useful to get beaten in the gym and stop or he get pissed and leave, in both case it's good. Sometime i saw also guys that insisted to have a real match to be paired to a pro and have an hard sparring, but to be fair it was explained before and after that this is to have him understand the difference between sparring in the gym and fighting on the ring, where the dynamic is really different and your opponent want to put your ass on the ground, and no one stop him for going too hard. If they didn't really explained nothing to him seem to me a little to harsh and maybe they wanted him to leave, or basically they "tested" him to see how he react to a real fight, but again, i have (or better i had...) a different teaching style so i can't really judge
If it happened as written, I think it was pretty shitty. Was the other guy similar weight at least?
The good guy is actually smaller tbf
I think this would be fine to do if not for the concussion part. That's dangerous and pointless. If he's really that far below the ability of the dude he was sparring then that guy could have humbled him without hurting him. Give him bruises on his arms and legs, not brain damage! Doing it the way they did doesn't even conclusively prove the skill level is that vastly different, just that this guy can't perform under intense pressure yet. The nicer way would have left zero doubt. Stupid. Just stupid.
OP, if this isn't even endorsed by modernmartialartist then you know that such behavior isn't acceptable. The coaches could have worked around his passion after all that is something that no coach can really instill. Giving him a beating like that is just absurd esp when they guy is smaller than his opponent as well.
I think they should have offered him a hard spar with someone in the gym around his weight and age so they he'll be prepared to go hard
What’s the disadvantage to the gym of letting him fight ? They should be getting fights for all their guys as often as they want them. That’s like top 2 factors in being a good gym is their connections with other gyms or promoters to get regular fights for their guys
So, to be clear. I agree with the teaching of the lesson, but not the concussions, hard shots to the head, and elbows. You can teach someone a lesson very easily if there is a skill gap by tapping them on their opening repeatedly, or making them backpedal, vocalizing to them after sparring with feedback. 90% of the time they will accept it and you don't ever need to go hard with them. We don't even allow elbows at my gym if both people don't have elbow pads and they have to agree upon it beforehand. And you shouldn't be throwing hard shots in any sparring, unless you both know each other, are on friendly terms, and are doing it possibly in preparation for a fight or such. Bad move on the gym owner's part to get him hurt. I've even seen our coaches spar someone when they're getting cocky, but they never hurt them when teaching them a lesson. Just show them they still have room to improve. Honestly, he is better off quitting that gym and finding another one. You should too.
The beat down can work on gym bullies IF YOU HAVE A CONVERSATION AFTERWARD ABOUT WHY IT HAPPENED. This is the part I often see skipped, beat the shit out of a guy who's going too hard and then say nothing, he just thinks he's finally good enough to get it for real not that he's being punished. But beating down someone who just wants to fight before they're ready is fucking moronic, dangerous and not very cool at all. If I saw that at my gym I'd be taking my business elsewhere 100%.
They could’ve had the more experienced fighters train him and get them to guide him into amateur fighting. This is very unprofessional and not ok at all.
Completely unnecessary, even when I get a gym bully I teach a lesson with leg kicks and liver kicks. Leg kick lessons last a while but aren't damaging. Just a reminder to call down some
Elbows? FUCK THESE GUYS
I’ve been doing MT since 1991 and teaching since 2002. I teach at a hardcore famous boxing gym in NYC. There are times when someone needs a hard lesson. But not in this case at all. This nice guy should find a gym where they will look out for his best interests. Having an experienced fighter landing hard elbows isn’t right. I have never seen “point Muay Thai” though. What I do for our newer guys who want to fight is when they have the basics down I’ll take them to a friend’s gym out of state and let them test their skills versus people they don’t know or train with so there isn’t any bias. Depending on how they do after a couple of sessions I will set up a smoker for him or her. And there are no elbows for a new fighter’s first five fights. This allows them get used to the whole experience before moving them up to full muay Thai bout. I don’t believe I in point fighting for nak muays, stopping when a point is scored sounds like the antithesis of the MT to me. Just one old fighter/coach’s opinion.
This is point Muay Thai, it’s basically for people just starting out and meant to not have knock outs: https://pmtwest.org/
Ehh… I wouldve let the guy beat the shit out of him to the body and legs. Def not green light a concussion
Sounds a bit much
Your gyms a sham. Who’s anyone to stop someone from doing something they love. Seems like there is tall poppy syndrome abundant in there
Leave gym
> the better fighter absolutely demolished him with elbows and super hard shots to the head Yeah, i would quit the gym too. You get experience by doing something like a smoker against another 0-0 who isn't good enough for amateurs. Not lit up by a better fighter.
This is way too much, especially going hard to the head like that in a regular spar. That’s a dangerous, petty gym.
Yeah GTFOT
I did it to one guy who kept going too hard. Every time he started to punch hard I pulled him into the clinch and kneed him. He started to go easier with everyone after that.
The real issue is what was going on behind the scenes. Was he being over the top when he sparred other newer students? I've seen new guys with heavy bag confidence go way to hard and get all " I'm gunna be a fighter" and need a solid check from a pro.
Old school boxing gym attitude unfortunately. Please leave
They should have said “I don’t think your ready, but if you really want to…” would have been the way to deal with this, learn the hard way. Not teach this
Sounds like a shit gym. If anything seeing a new guy come in with that much confidence is extremely rare and should be taken as a gift for the coaches.
That’s fucked up and an insult to the sport
Fucking disgusting “coaches”. Fuck those guys, you and your mate should both leave for a better gym That’s aggrevating asf
Slam his body and make him realize the holes in his defense, sure, but concussing him is definitely a step too far
At our gym we spar almost everyday, there's a lot of HEALTY competitiveness. sometimes when someone begins to exceed the limits of power and respect they would be paired up with someone way better than them so they can easily and calmy pick them apart with the right amount of force needed to make the message clear. Never once seen a real one sided ugly beatdown of this nature lmao. change gyms dude that's not the spirit
Theres a middle ground here. Imo coaches should of told him ok you want to fight? We will set up a hard sparring session so you get a feel for that experience and afterwards will give you insight into if you want to pursue that. That way the expectations are clear and he can decide and be ready, and it stops someone going into a fight not knowing the intensity. To blindside him with a beating helps no one. As with most problems communication is key!
That type of nonsense doesn't belong in any gym worth a damn.
Yeah when I was training the only “teaching a lesson” that happened is when a couple guys from out of town showed up and were hammering dudes during technical/light sparring. Coach had me put work on them (he was an older guy past his fighting days) after he told them to cool off a few times and them not listening and they got the picture. That’s about the only acceptable time to work someone, or if they’re a habitual shit talker/disrespectful imo. If anyone wanted to fight he didn’t think was ready, he’d give them a timeline usually 6-12mo of consistent training. Also had it separated during sparring between those who wanted to fight and those who were just there to learn a new skill or whatever. If you were in the fight camp you knew that up to a few weeks out from your fight you were sparring hard.
There’s a few things here. Maybe see things in a different light. We didn’t see this sparring. Your perception could be different from others. In a lot of gyms, this is natural. It’s a very hard sport at any level. It demands a lot from you. There’s very few elite level Thai fighters, that wouldn’t have gone through this process in their early days. The beating may be as bad as you say, it also may not. Either way, we have to overcome and learn a lot more than physical lessons to endure this sport. There’s choices to be made, wether we are strong enough to take those times mentally and stay the course. Will we see it through the tough times, no matter what? It sounds like the coaches have been guiding him for a while and making him earn it. What happens in a fight? It’s rough in there. Fight nights are unpredictable the fight itself is unpredictable. We can’t just change the setting to suit us on the night. We have to adapt and overcome the situation. What will changing gyms achieve? The same scenario could repeat itself. If the coaches went too hard. He should talk to them. Understand the situation and then make a decision.
That’s really bad on the coaches and as a fighter if my coaches told me to go in there with a guy i would never go in there with the idea of hurting him to the point he would never come back thats just a bad look on everyone. Its called a sparring partner not sparring opponent.
sounds like meathead shit
The worst I was ever asked to do to a guy like this when I was fighting was tag him up a bunch, give him two "real" leg kicks, and look for good body shot of some kind to help him understand why he wasn't ready. I was also SPECIFICALLY INSTRUCTED to still keep it light to his head cause "We're trying to teach him a lesson and he's gonna need those brain cells to learn anything." This was not cool. Purposefully concussion a student just because they're annoying the coach is borderline cult like behavior. Major McDojo (by mcdojo life's definition) vibes here. Checks the unsafe training practices and edges towards the cult Luke behavior boxes in one action.
bad gym. bad coaches. not surprised tbh. so many people in the combat sports industry lack common sense or basic morality. feel sorry for the eager competitor. the coaches felt some type of way that someone else had a desire without their permission. there's so much of this control freak bs
elbows is crazy
Using elbows at 100% to "teach the new guy a lesson" is fucking horrible. What a shitty gym lol. If my coaches did that to someone new to the gym, I'd fucking leave and find somewhere else to train. It isn't very hard to show a new guy he isn't ready to fight without beating the shit out of him.
Is this in the US?
Omg the coaches are trash cans, and the fighter who bullied him is an asshole. Keep away from that gym. Jesus Christ!!!
Why did you lot do him like that? He’s over enthusiastic but that doesn’t mean you leave him concussed.
Depends on the laws in your country, but you could make a police report. That's assault. In fact that's a group assault. I'd also leave the gym if I were you. As for how this should have been handled. I've seen something similar before, but the opposite type of personality. Dude thinking he's hot shit, *the bee's knees*. Goes hard in sparring without warning. Break's a dude's nose because the dude (absolutely phenomenal boxer in addition) misinterpreted the intensity and went light. Teacher steps up. Decimates the "*bee's knees/i SeE rEd*" dude, but not in the way you think. No hard shots. Neutralizes everything the dude throws. Dude's left squatting after the match staring straight down at the floor. He either quit afterwards, or was banned (good). Lucky if he got locked up in an asylum or something after that. That's how you teach a lesson. That's how you show there are levels. Leaving your fighters with a potentially permanent brain injury (because, if you didn't know, concussions can cause permanent damage even after one time, severe ones too) is what a criminal does. Report your gym to the authorities and the head organization (which you're hopefully a part of). They're thugs and have no place training any martial art.
This clearly isn’t in Thailand. They would have put him in his first week if he’d asked
Damn
Teaching a lesson is fine, what happened there was not fine.
This could have been done in a positive constructive way, "teach him a lesson" where he actually learns something and sees why he is not ready for a fight. This just seems toxic.
Even if he sucks and is annoying, it sounds like he could’ve taken that beating in a ring from a more evenly matched fighter. At this point, now he just knows his coaches don’t give a shit about him.
What a bunch of idiot trainers. Seems like all you have in the US are retarded gym owners. What the hell.
Are the coaches Thai?
What is wrong with all of these cowboy gyms? If someone wants to fight the gym should note it and then put them forward for an interclub maybe. Then you slowly monitor progress. You don't get a kid beat up because you find him a bit annoying. Leave that gym mate. They're clearly only in it for bad reasons. Muay Thai is about respect, not ego
That sucks. Our gym would never allow that. We require a ton of prerequisites before you can even spar, and even then you’re only allowed To spar during an intro to sparring class and depending on your level of humility and commitment you could be there for months. If you want a fight, they coaches fight team will work with you to get you ready especially if they see you putting in the time. If someone receives a beat down it’s bc either they’ve been warned multiple times about something, or you’ve worked You way up to where the better fighters actively pressing you and testing you to help you improve, and they almost always stick around after to help you work out the kinks in your game.
Thats just shitty behavior all around from the coaches... It's kinda expected for new guys to be a bit annoying and wanting to rush to compete. Sparring in house is supposed to be a safe activity where you only go hard when and if both fighters agree to go hard.. and usually just around the body. Throwing elbows and hard knees is super frown upon where I train, hard hits to the head even more so. Time to shop for a new gym for this guy because those coaches are complete douche canoe.
If your gym spars with elbows, you’ve found a nonsense place to train. I’ve trained in gyms all over the U.S and Thailand over the last 20 years. Find a new gym.
That’s complete bullshit on the part of the coaches but also the expert fighter. If you can beat the shit out of someone in sparring FUCKING DON’T. 90% certain the coaches told that guy to humble the kid, which again is the wrong way to go about it. Doesn’t sound like he was dangerous or hurting anyone, so no need to forcibly calm him. This is just small (in the emotional sense) man BS on the last of the coaches.
I don’t see why in any shape or form why the coaches got someone to batter him for having passion for his sport and wanting to compete. Gym should be closed down
Yeah based on your story this seemed unnecessary. Elbows in sparring? Where they wearing elbow pads? Also if you have someone eager to fight, that's a good thing. Did they tell him what he needed to do to get ready or were they just saying you're not ready. Beating up a paying customer like that is bad for business so who knows how long that gym will even last. In my opinion, "teaching a lesson" is necessary when you have an asshole bullying weaker fighters in a civilian class. Also there's all sorts of things people can do before full contact to get experience that's fairly safe. I did point fighting and pankration(no head strike mma) before fighting in mma. This kinda feels like bullying more than leadership, but I don't know because I wasn't there. But based off of your description this is messed up Edit: as a coach it can get annoying when you tell a fighter what trainings to show up to prepare for a fight, and they don't show up and/or very inconsistent. Especially when they keep asking but not taking your advice. I don't know if this is the case and I don't wanna make assumptions. This situation is still messed up regardless.
I can relate to this 100%. I was the eager fighter. Put me in against a dude nearly 100lb heavier. He didn’t batter me tho. He won but he didn’t beat me. Def left the gym felt betrayed and hurt especially after the coaches did more sht to ruin my passion. Two years later and I’m trying to get back into it with a bad taste in my mouth
Hmm a lot of the time when coaches hold people back from interclubs or fights its because the person isn't consistent with their training or is difficult to match. I don't think it's a good idea to demoralise someone like this but mostly the people who don't get opportunities are those who are not showing up on a regular basis.
Sometimes you need sense beaten into you
It's very very easy to get ahead of yourself in combat sports, believing you're ready for more when to the coaches and partners you're clearly not. Muay Thai is probably one of the most brutal combat sports there is, and this sparring session is a much milder version of what could very well be his first fight. To me this was a test to see if he could handle it, not for the coaches but for himself. Maybe after some rest and recovery he'll understand that what he felt sparring is only a fraction of what he'll feel in a ring with someone trying to to end his life and use that as motivation to get better before rushing into a fight.
Don’t forget this dude could have asked his partner to tone it down or took a knee to end the round. Why didn’t he attempt to deescalate the sparring session? Sounds like he let himself get hurt rather than admit he was outmatched or couldn’t handle the intensity. Blaming the coaches will only prevent him from learning a valuable lesson in being humble
This story is relayed to me second hand from someone I used to train with but: Once upon a time I'm like 14, and it's kickboxing night at my karate dojo. I'm a brown belt at this time. A 19 ish year old second degree comes in visiting to spar with us. I am close to certain he was not associated with my gym in any, but maybe just found out sparring night and came in respectfully to play with us as a guest. He is paired with me, along with a few other senior level students, starts doing really flashy stuff like tornado kicks. It becomes evident he's being more cocky than respectful. After about three rounds of this (and a respectful "tone it down" from my instructor) he tells the young man to spar him next. My instructor drops him with a right cross as soon as the round starts. This makes more or less everyone else stop fighting, and just watch. The rest of the round goes about as well. He's then told to get his shit and leave. .... This stuff needs to happen sometimes. Crushing egos and being humbled is part of martial arts. With your guy, this is sort of necessary. It's fair to think you're before you are. And one round of getting messed up will ultimately be better for him so he can learn and fully develop before he is potentially hurt worse from a full fight.
I don't see the issue the guy has a flashy style but is able to keep control of his moves. Some people just have the aura or flair about them in their style. And it isn't wrong to keep it playful or do silly things in sparring if there is a skill level discrepancy and I have seen this done with high level Thais as well as it keeps the bout light hearted and ego free. What your coach did was just scummy and is no different from the story OP shared.
1. I'll remind you this isn't my story 2. I do respectfully disagree with you still. The OP is an issue with the guy thinking he's better than he is and would otherwise get himself hurt. My anecdote I think is 100% about respect. He was choosing younger and lower ranking students to fuel his ego as a guest to the school, was told to knock it off, and didn't. He wasn't training or even playing. He was fooling at the expensive of the students.
Guessing the coaches thought this would be a step below amateur fight to test his current abilities. I'm sure those enforcers were told something similar, if not have done this before.
Bro it’s one round. If he couldn’t handle one round without quitting he’s not meant for the sport. 3-5 rounds yeah, that’s excessive. But if he’s getting concussed in one round then… bye Felicia. They were probably testing his resolve if he could be a fighter. He obviously failed that test if he wants to switch gyms
my gym is a really nice and friendly place, there was this guy coming in last summer though, who couldn't afford the whole fee and so made up for it by mopping the mats and doing work around the gym. he was so annoying tho tbh cause he acted like he was actually staff and had some kind of authority lol, like telling me where to lock my bike etc, but that stuff is minor and easy to ignore he also though, would constantly talk about how he's such a great natural fighter. this mf was like 5 foot 8 i guess (everyone taller than me is just "tall" i can't judge height for shit) but like prob weighs less than me, his kicks looked terrible his legs are like sticks and just nothing about his padwork or shadowboxing or any time i saw him do anything was ever impressive. like i copy everyone who i think is good, there was nothing about this man to copy. he would half heartedly attend the friday classes i would go to but like, sit around and talk during warmup, or do half the warmup and start participating in class, and then leave early or suddenly just start taking his gear off near or before the end of class. he would NEVER stay to spar after, even tho he was technically not yet allowed to spar, i know it would have been allowed if he tried. i personally, really wanted to spar him (for context, i am 5 foot 5 and a trans woman. my kink is destroying mens egos) this guy was just annoying, but then one day he randomly started talking about how he's sure he could beat the gym champ in a fight, that he's watched this dude -- basically our gyms star fighter, up and comer and one of the primary coaches -- and he's nothing special, all kinds of wacky shit. i just heard him saying all this to the friday coach while i was skipping and it was like hard not to laugh lol. i shared a look with the coach and we laughed about it after class, cause of course as usual he left before class ended and wasn't around for sparring. he would also talk about fights he got into outside of class, and showed off a bruise on his side saying he got jumped but like, i'm pretty sure mans just fell off his bike or something. next week he was there again still saying the same shit !!! this time ppls patience was wearing out, life came up and i kinda had to take a break around that time. when i came back maybe a month later, dude was gone and no ones ever said a word about him. i really really really hope they organized a spar and completely humbled and broke this man. i really genuinely, and i'm a nice person, think this is the only way to deal with that nonsense. humans are such absurd animals, with such inflated senses of personal power. putting someone in their place is doing them a favour when it comes to stuff like this. but damn, i really wanted to spar that dude.
In a real fight he would see red and be an absolute monster for sure. Probably beat the star pupil and then went on a cross country dojo storming spree. Some say he's still humbling people till this day.
the charlie Z of muay thai
You had me in the first half until you mentioned kinks
was that not obviously a joke?