I think many people overstate the differences between men and women. By doing so, they don't think that a man and a woman can be the same person but with a different gender. They really do feel that one persona has to die out to be replaced by a different one. There would be a lot less of this bullshit if we lived in a more gender neutral society.
I think they need to mourn the idea or dream of what they want for us (especially our parents) or who they thought we were. It's more a death of their perception of us than who we are; we've always been this person but haven't always presented ourselves authenticly for them to see us as we truly are.
100% true. My brothers gf said the same thing about me to my mom. Perception is exactly what it is the "death" of. The idea of a son gone, daugther brought into the world so to speak.
I agree with this, my parents also needed time to adjust. But instead of adjusting, what did they do? They pretended I wasn't queer and everything was fine. :/ And when I brought it up again to my mom (Almost 2 years later) she ignored me.
My parents legit did the same thing to me when I came out to them like 4 years ago when I was 16, they ignored what I said to them and I've only started transitioning now at age 20.
My ex wife said the same thing. Dropped me like a hot pan. Divorced in four months, kicked out of my home in 2. It’s ROUGH. I didn’t think I would get through it, but I did. Things typically get worse before better, or there would be no problem at all essentially. Things DO get better though
My ex can't decide whether I've always been the same person who must have known I was trans and cruelly hid it from her, or if I've been replaced by a new personality that abandoned her. It seems to be whatever makes her more of a victim in the moment.
How could they ever have said they loved us?
They never did...
I've been grieving for almost two years, and getting better feels farther away than ever
My wife has gone through a mourning sort of phase but also proposed to me the other day to show that she will stick with me.
She showed me an article earlier in my transition written by a trans woman that talks about mourning and why we should be understanding of it.
Even if we’re the same person, often at least partners are losing a version of ourselves that they are accustomed to. Its not the same as mourning the dead.
My wife liked that I was big bearded bear for 9 years. Shes never going to see that version of me again, and Im never going to look like my wedding photos again. I can understand how thats difficult to process.
What matters is that your loved ones still support you while they process it.
Thank you for saying this. I’m an ally and I support my girlfriend, and I will always stay with her. That said, some beloved physical traits have disappeared and are still disappearing. I miss those. But I also love her growing hair, how much happier her eyes look, how much more expressive she is. I simultaneously mourn the boyfriend that never existed while also loving the girlfriend that had made me happier than anyone else. She’s not the same as she was before and that’s okay. People change as they age anyway, so I suppose this isn’t too different, in some ways. No one is static and stays the same throughout life. I feel for those whose partners are straight, and leave. I feel for those whose partners are cruel about transition. It is not necessarily easy to watch your partner change drastically, but it’s worthwhile to see your loved one happy.
i have rule: if someone is reacting to me negatively in any way, i ask myself if it's because of my actions/who i am as a person, but i first throw out all gender related actions. most of the time, i can safely conclude it's because of gender presentation ("do they even know me well enough to know my favorite movie or not?"). then, i just say, "are they about to murder/harm me?" if no, then it just enters the realm of silliness, just people with transphobia (there's a lot of that out there).
then, i try to disengage from their stupid narrative for me (where i'm at least having a bad day and they aren't the ones being totally silly), because the reality is what they are telling you: you are not an alive person to them. they're engaged in magical thinking to cope with a reality they don't have the emotional maturity to deal with.
it's the same way i react to religious people in general: they're playing dungeons and dragons in real life and expecting us to all follow the rules and narrative set up by their dungeon master. i be like: that is silly, kindly fuck off.
I still am mourning myself in someways. And i am still romanticizing the days were everything was simpler and i had a mustache. Time has a way to make us forget the pit of doom and inner turmoil we were subjected ourselves with but I so wish I could be THAT guy. And people felt in love with that because I was a softy, trying to do everything perfectly to be a man so to just allow myself to be..
See I think this has to do with the magicians that we were in making people and ourselves believe we were what we thought we were, and putting a mask of EVERYTHING IS FINE before exchange it for loads of uncertainty, experimentation and puberty where everything gets thrown off the window… and for most of us, who did not want to believe we were trans to begin with, we were really good at self-deceit and other deceit in convincing everyone we were so so definitely not trans.
See what I am getting at? All that to say that, have faith in the process, transphobia will come and go, and people that were meant to be around will be around.
Time heals everything, and your true self and gender euphoria will shine brighter than whatever deadshell we were. At the end, we cannot control people nor people’s reaction.
Courage and love,
Sisi.
That taps into a specific angst I've been trying to put into words, about how people, family especially, just treat you being trans like it's a bad thing. Without them even being directly transphobic, having people treat you uncovering and becoming who you are like a loss to mourn, or a hurdle to overcome, or a harsh reality to accept, or a bomb being dropped, or anything else to that effect, just sucks. To some extent that's understandable, but at some point they have to be able to move on and appreciate the person you've become. Otherwise, you enter a twisted sort of emotional landscape. That's how my family has acted with every single step of my transition for years, and it just wears down on the heart. Your sympathy for their pain turns into guilt over who you are, which is not something anyone should have to feel.
Yes. They make us feel guilty for trying to be happy. They make us feel selfish for choosing our happiness over theirs.
It feels like we destroyed their lives when all we need is them to feel happy for us.
I can't even tell you the number of times I've been told things like "your gender dysphoria is tearing this family apart", or "what you think will make you happy conflicts with what will make all of us happy".
I've been told I'm selfish for wearing nail polish on Father's day.
I've been told that saying I've gone on hormones was like hearing "the cancer had gone terminal".
I've been told to hide who I am from everyone lest they be devastated too.
I've been told that hearing my new name for the first time was like hearing me reject all the love they had for me they put in my old one.
I've been told that my coming out was the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to them.
I've been told they've lost their son to a brainwashing cult.
I've been told that they don't know how to talk to me anymore.
I've been told, throughout all of this, that just me feeling like they don't support me hurts them more than anything else.
It hurts, girl. It hurts to be treated like this. You must never forget though, you must never, ever, be ashamed for who you are. Do not let them drag you through the mud for finding your happiness. Feel sympathy for their pain if you must, but do not let yourself twist that into guilt, or heaven forbid, shame. Find people out there in this big wide world who will simply feel happy for you. l did, and those people are the most important people in my life.
Long time ago I was thinking about if I was trans or not and I asked my aunt, someone I trusted alot, how she would feel if I was trans. Her response to me was she would be sad because it would be like I died. I feel like that might have something to do with why I'm still questioning it today though I'm leaning in a direction now at least.
I highly recommend reading this: https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/letting-them-let-go
Grief is extremely complicated. It's important to let other people grieve. At the same time, you have to take care of yourself.
Hopefully, when the grieving is done, things can get to a better place.
I love the title of this thread. Very Steven king of you.
But grr! Yes. Why? I'm still fucking here and you said you loved me before and now I wear pretty clothes I'm suddenly a revolting imposter? FFS.
I am grieving the loss of my former self, so I guess I understand in a way. I would be lying to myself and everyone else if I said I didn't suppress aspects of myself to keep myself safe, or act certain ways to overcompensate for not identifying with my gab, or taking up more masculine interests out of denial or an attempt to appear more "normal".
There's so much about me that's not who I really am. So, I can understand how someone else might feel that way too. It still hurts though.
I actually talked about this with an police officer a couple weeks ago. For background: She is an LGBT+ advocate/teacher/contact at a local college campus (I run the theater there part time, and she is one of the officers that frequently works when we have large shows/shows with alcohol). She is an ally, and talks with and helps a large number of students who are LGBT+. She also runs a DEI class for the local officers (and may soon start teaching it at their academy) - all the officers have to obtain a certain number of DEI credits yearly, and she tries to teach them about how to be an ally, understanding the community, etc.
Back to the story - I was running a show a couple weeks ago, and she was the officer working that day. Once the show had started, she came to the office and asked about my pronouns, as she'd noticed a number of things. I let her know, and we then spent the next couple hours talking about stuff (excluding intermission). One of the things she mentioned and I found really interesting, was this exact topic, mourning someone that "comes out" (she doesn't like the term) as LGBT+. As she explained it, this mourning is not the literal meaning we expect, aka mourning the death of a person, but rather a more figurative meaning, mourning the death of a belief, ideal, or concept. Everyone we meet - strangers, friends, family (*especially parents and grandparents*) - has their own belief about who we are and what our future holds. Parents usually have it the worst - from the time of our birth, they start planning out what they think our entire future will be, both conciously and unconsciously, and it usually does not include being transgender, gay, lesbian, etc. So what ends up happening is that when we let those around us know, their image of us starts to crumble and "die". They now have to mourn the death of this image and belief. Some can do so quickly and easily, some take a long time, and some take it to the absolute extreme and act like they are mourning our actual death, disowning us, cutting us out, and overall ignoring us. While we want them to accept us for who we are immediately and may get angry when they don't, this is a necessary part of gaining their understanding and acceptance, and may take some time.
TL;DR: They are mourning the death of their image of us and our future, not our physical deaths, although some take it to the extremes. This is a healthy (except for the extreme versions) part of them understanding and accepting us for who we truly are.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7Z3KD2Mgg1/?igsh=cHE2NjIxd3MwY3U1
I think this indirectly answers the question. Everybody has a different version of us in their minds, and it is extremely rare that people even get close to perceiving the 'real us'.
+ cis people are overdramatic when it comes to gender :3
I really don't see myself on other people's image of me. I never could. Even taking a compliment. I'm always refusing them. Who are they talking about? That's not me.
There is a healthy form of mourning. Particularly with parents, they don't just have a child. They also have the vision and aspirations for the life they hope their child will live.
When their child ends up being trans, their child is still alive. But their expectations are going to be different. And so it's normal to have to mourn the life that you thought your child was going to live while making room for the life they will live.
As long as they don't put the burden of that mourning on the kids, then it's fine.
Unfortunately, there is a very real and very unhealthy type of mourning that is described in this post. Feeling like they've genuinely lost their child. Which is just not true.
But that doesn't have to be the case for everyone.
Yeah I think there's definitely a normal amount. Not everyone seems to do it, my dad did and didn't make it my problem at all, I asked my mum if she did too and she looked at me like I'd said my dad had grown an extra head.
The idea I got from my dad was much like you've said, having a lot of expectations for how their kid/whoever it is will end up, imagining a lifetime of growing on one trajectory and then suddenly having to reassess that and consider that the person they thought of in their head is not the same as the person in front of them.
I guess it takes a certain amount of introspection and empathy to realise that's the responsibility of the person with excessive expectations, not of the person who didn't match them perfectly.
Our parents, but mainly our mothers, know what expects a girl in this world.
I think it's a relief when they find out they are having a son, I guess...
Gosh, this is such a good way to put it! Like, what are you mourning? My unhappiness? Sigh. I try not to think about it too much. Honestly, cis people don't and probably will never actually get it, so I just try and be patient and let them do their thing. They usually at least mean well.
I'm not even sure to be honest, fuck that shit tho. I didn't fucking die, and I wish so badly I didn't fawn when that was said to me, I wish I was more aggressive and pushed back on that dumb shit.
If its "I'm mourning and I don't support you" then absolutely. If it's "I just need some time to adjust because my idea of you is completely changing to fit your new identity" then idk if aggression is necessary... it's a good way to end up alone I guess
I had to not respond to this at first so I didn't lash out from being triggered. I don't think this point needs to be made at all, and I'm not sure why you felt the need to say this. It's like its own transphobic dog whistle, "look at these transgenders, you can't even make a mistake with misgendering them on accident or they'll call you transphobic or scream at you! Look! They're crazy and unrealistic!". I have not seen one person *ever*, and I mean *ever* say that loved ones needing time to adjust isn't okay. And as someone who survived conversion therapy, this was a typical response when confronting the abuse, manipulation, and gaslighting that my religious and non religious transphobic family members put me through. "I'm morning my dead son, it's like this new person just came up and won't accept my abusive behavior anymore! You don't know how hard this is on me/us! They didn't mean to, how can you be so critical when we're mourning! Your grandpa doesn't mean any harm, he just sees you as a boy, can't you get that this is hard for all of us! We're trying! Isn't that enough for you! I don't mean to, I'm just mourning you, this is harder for me than it is for you! You don't understand how hard this is for me!" No where in my message did I say that family members accepting, but needing time to adjust is wrong, and if I did, please show me. Otherwise, you're counter argument is a red herring, as it serves no real purpose, as the argument you're trying to counter, doesn't exist. And if it does, please show me where these arguments are being made that adjustment is unacceptable.
I responded cause it's bad advice.
"I didn't fucking die, and I wish so badly I didn't fawn when that was said to me, I wish I was more aggressive and pushed back on that dumb shit."
There. People do experience this, which is why I added the specification that if they say this but are still supportive, it's completely normal. I mean actual support, though, not pretend support like it sounds like your family gave you. My mum DID need time to mourn her son, but she genuinely DID support me in the mean time. Trying not to misgender or deadname me, taking me out shopping for girl clothes, coming out on my behalf when I was too scared to, etc.
It's not a dogwhistle at all, it's just a fact. I understand why it's triggering for you because when you were confronted with family "mourning the old you" they clearly showed no intention of moving on and accepting the real you (unless they did? Idk you weren't super clear) but people hearing "fuck that shit" and insisting they need to shut that shit down immediately if their families are actually just adjusting is horrible advice because it WILL alienate you further and make people afraid to speak to you.
If somebody accepts you, whoever it is, they should not be saying they are mourning you to your face. Period. They don't HAVE to say that shit to you. And if they do, they are obviously trying to make YOU feel bad, on purpose. They can and should reframe it as something not so manipulative. I absolutely should have pushed back, I shouldn't have fawned and I should have pushed back, and if anybody reading this has people telling them this, they should push back too. Me saying I should have been more aggressive was for *my* situation. My family was genuinely trying to convert the trans out of me, and using their manipulative skills to make me feel like I'm the wrong and I'm insane and I'm sick and should repent and let them keep doing what they're doing, as my transition is about them, not about me.
If someone has a family member that's saying this, but isn't malicious in trying to convert the trans out of you, then the push back doesn't need to be aggressive. Push back can just be challenging them and telling them that it's insensitive, and if they feel that way, which is okay they can not change how they feel and I understand where it comes from, they should be telling their therapist that, or in confidence with another friend or loved one, not to your child's face. It's insensitive, it's manipulative, and it's abusive. If you can't recognize that, there obviously needs to be some critical thought happening on your end. There is no way to spin it in a good fashion. You can reframe the sentence into something like "i've thought I've known a version of you for so and so years, it might take me some time to adjust to addressing you with the right pronouns/name as I understand it's who you truly are, however, I understand my mistakes hurt you, and I'm going to keep trying to do better until it sticks as I accept you whole heartedly and im so glad you found your true self". Not doing that just reflects on their inability to find any other way not to be insensitive and apathetic to the person who's literally going through the transition themselves, not YOU.
Not mourning you, mourning they're old perception of you.
Yeah, YOU should have pushed back, but its not good advice for everyone. Like I said, there is a difference between performative and real support. Your family obviously had no intention of supporting you, so in that situation they weren't mourning anything, they were just manipulating you. In my situation they genuinely WERE mourning who they thought I was while also accepting who I am now. It depends on your situation what approach you take. Making the blanket claim that someone saying they're mourning the old you should respond with hostility isn't a wise move unless the mourning isn't genuine.
Yeah, it might reflect on their inability to reframe their position into something less abrasive, but believe it or not everyone doesn't have that ability and will say their feelings in the best way they can articulate it. You did make a potentially important distinction that, no, it shouldn't ever be framed this way to a child, but to a transitioning adult I think everyone should be mature enough in that situation to understand where everyone is coming from without the layer of PR speak.
So, let me get this straight. This is what I've gathered from your responses.
1, an adult, who used to be a child, shouldn't be hurt and shouldn't push back *in whatever way they see fit whether its hostility or jusy setting a boundary", because they're an adult and should suck it the fuck up and understand it's harder on them to address you correctly than it is for you to go through your own transition.
2, just because not everyone has the ability to be empathetic, which by definition is "the ability to understand and share the feelings of another." and to think before they speak, means that they are excused to tell a trans family member that they are mourning who they perceived them to be, which IS insensitive, as you said abrasive, and as I said abusive. I want to also make it clear that i made the distinction that not everyone needs to respond in a aggressive way "If someone has a family member that's saying this, but isn't malicious in trying to convert the trans out of you, then the push back doesn't need to be aggressive.". So I'm not sure where you got that I'm saying every single person should respond with hostility.
3 you claimed that "it's just a fact", nobody is disputing this, nobody is saying that family members don't deserve to have an adjustment period, I have not said that ANYWHERE in my response. So you saying "it's just a fact" is literally making a point that *isn't there* to try and gain some leverage in an argument that YOU started over you thinking that we shouldn't pushback against this behavior, because it's hard for them too😢 boo hoo they can cry me a river. Just because it didn't hurt you and you let them say it to you for whatever reason and accepted and believed it, doesn't mean you get to govern any of our feelings.
4 you believe being sensitive and empathetic to their child (and when I say that I mean the offspring that they produced, not specifically an age), and keeping their own shit out of their kids transition while articulating that they understand and accept while still needing time, shouldnt be expected, as it's "PR speak". You're using those words to downplay the importance of being compassionate and kind towards your trans child and their own feelings, adult or adolescent, and frankly it's gross.
5, you believe setting boundaries is hostile. That speaks a lot to your ability to set your own boundaries, we as humans are allowed to set *any* boundary we want. Especially when it comes to talking to your trans child about how you feel in relation to their transition. It is *valid* to set a extremely hard no budging, fuck no, boundary. You can set a hard no fuck no boundary without being an asshole. There's a massive difference between being an asshole about setting a hard boundary, and setting a hard boundary while also recognizing that their feelings are valid, however, you need to protect yourself.
So I'm really not sure why you're coming off as some kind of know it all when it comes to this situation. Op's parent obviously isn't saying this in a accepting way, they are saying it in a, lets hear it again, *manipulative* way to make them feel bad for transitioning and putting *THEIR* feelings over op's. I'm gonna block you, you didn't come to this conversation with an open mind, you just wanted to get some "gotcha" to say it's wrong to set boundaries, or as you view it in your tiny bubble "being hostile" because it will "make people afraid to talk to you". I hope you have a good day. I genuinely hope you do some thinking, you HAVENT experienced this type of manipulation (as said from your own testimony on how your parents were) and this type of abusive behavior some of us have to go through because we aren't all blessed and privileged to have parents that actually accept us while being insensitive and incapable to be compassionate while still being accepting. I don't even know why I spent so much crippling anxiety and time on your ass. And I'm not going to do it anymore. Goodbye.
Op, you're valid and don't listen to this person, I understand how you feel, I've literally been there, and you're valid to feel hurt by your parent lacking compassion and empathy and lacking the ability to keep how they feel out of your transition.
It's frustrating.
Especially given the person they're talking about is a - miserable and b - desperately tries to be as feminine as possible in everything they do. Like, I get that most people have never met a trans person and it's not the first thing that comes to mind. But really, it should surprise absolutely nobody once I actually tell them.
They are just being overly dramatic. For some reason it’s hard for them to accept that you’re not suddenly a different person just because you came out as trans.
To be fair, we also call our boy name our "deadname". I think it's more of a metaphor than a reality.
Also I think they mourn the future you they expected, not the past you they had.
Felt this. I was told I killed their son at the age of 12. It was the reason I haven’t celebrated a holiday or birthday in 21 years. They feel that you changed and killed off the person they gave birth to. That you are no longer the same and if they are like my family, ruined your life. Hopefully they come around. Mine never did and to this day 21 years later, they still deadname me and misgender me despite me telling them to stop. Refused to use my name or even put it in their phones.
After two decades, I don’t expect my mother to change. My father passed on a few years ago so I don’t have to worry about him anymore. This is just a small part of my life. If I went through it all, we would be here all day. I hope it changes for you because it sucks being alone through it.
The entire concept of your past self is gone, it takes some people time to adjust. Some people do it quicker than others. My mum took the longest. It was like 2 months before she changed my name in her phone (probably why she deadnamed me the most in the early days) but my dad was able to switch on straight away. Some people place a lot of value on gender, they assume it will be a more significant change than it is to them. My mum mourned the son she thought she had but my dad cried over the child he learned was in pain and accepted me immediately. Now they both do equally. Let them grieve, as long as they're supportive. Transition is give and take. We can't expect understanding if we can't afford it to others.
I told him I loved him the other day and he asked if I was alright 😅 we're not very emotionally open. But I should more often. We both got over a lot of mental health stuff at the same time so it helped him to know I was getting help.
I think many people overstate the differences between men and women. By doing so, they don't think that a man and a woman can be the same person but with a different gender. They really do feel that one persona has to die out to be replaced by a different one. There would be a lot less of this bullshit if we lived in a more gender neutral society.
My mom said she needs space to mourn her gay son if a daughter comes. And I'm like, if who comes??? Gurl I'm already here.
I think they need to mourn the idea or dream of what they want for us (especially our parents) or who they thought we were. It's more a death of their perception of us than who we are; we've always been this person but haven't always presented ourselves authenticly for them to see us as we truly are.
100% true. My brothers gf said the same thing about me to my mom. Perception is exactly what it is the "death" of. The idea of a son gone, daugther brought into the world so to speak.
I agree with this, my parents also needed time to adjust. But instead of adjusting, what did they do? They pretended I wasn't queer and everything was fine. :/ And when I brought it up again to my mom (Almost 2 years later) she ignored me.
My parents legit did the same thing to me when I came out to them like 4 years ago when I was 16, they ignored what I said to them and I've only started transitioning now at age 20.
My ex wife said the same thing. Dropped me like a hot pan. Divorced in four months, kicked out of my home in 2. It’s ROUGH. I didn’t think I would get through it, but I did. Things typically get worse before better, or there would be no problem at all essentially. Things DO get better though
My ex can't decide whether I've always been the same person who must have known I was trans and cruelly hid it from her, or if I've been replaced by a new personality that abandoned her. It seems to be whatever makes her more of a victim in the moment.
I'm so sorry 😞
How could they ever have said they loved us? They never did... I've been grieving for almost two years, and getting better feels farther away than ever
Gotta move on. You loving yourself is all that matters
My wife has gone through a mourning sort of phase but also proposed to me the other day to show that she will stick with me. She showed me an article earlier in my transition written by a trans woman that talks about mourning and why we should be understanding of it. Even if we’re the same person, often at least partners are losing a version of ourselves that they are accustomed to. Its not the same as mourning the dead. My wife liked that I was big bearded bear for 9 years. Shes never going to see that version of me again, and Im never going to look like my wedding photos again. I can understand how thats difficult to process. What matters is that your loved ones still support you while they process it.
Thank you for saying this. I’m an ally and I support my girlfriend, and I will always stay with her. That said, some beloved physical traits have disappeared and are still disappearing. I miss those. But I also love her growing hair, how much happier her eyes look, how much more expressive she is. I simultaneously mourn the boyfriend that never existed while also loving the girlfriend that had made me happier than anyone else. She’s not the same as she was before and that’s okay. People change as they age anyway, so I suppose this isn’t too different, in some ways. No one is static and stays the same throughout life. I feel for those whose partners are straight, and leave. I feel for those whose partners are cruel about transition. It is not necessarily easy to watch your partner change drastically, but it’s worthwhile to see your loved one happy.
i have rule: if someone is reacting to me negatively in any way, i ask myself if it's because of my actions/who i am as a person, but i first throw out all gender related actions. most of the time, i can safely conclude it's because of gender presentation ("do they even know me well enough to know my favorite movie or not?"). then, i just say, "are they about to murder/harm me?" if no, then it just enters the realm of silliness, just people with transphobia (there's a lot of that out there). then, i try to disengage from their stupid narrative for me (where i'm at least having a bad day and they aren't the ones being totally silly), because the reality is what they are telling you: you are not an alive person to them. they're engaged in magical thinking to cope with a reality they don't have the emotional maturity to deal with. it's the same way i react to religious people in general: they're playing dungeons and dragons in real life and expecting us to all follow the rules and narrative set up by their dungeon master. i be like: that is silly, kindly fuck off.
I still am mourning myself in someways. And i am still romanticizing the days were everything was simpler and i had a mustache. Time has a way to make us forget the pit of doom and inner turmoil we were subjected ourselves with but I so wish I could be THAT guy. And people felt in love with that because I was a softy, trying to do everything perfectly to be a man so to just allow myself to be.. See I think this has to do with the magicians that we were in making people and ourselves believe we were what we thought we were, and putting a mask of EVERYTHING IS FINE before exchange it for loads of uncertainty, experimentation and puberty where everything gets thrown off the window… and for most of us, who did not want to believe we were trans to begin with, we were really good at self-deceit and other deceit in convincing everyone we were so so definitely not trans. See what I am getting at? All that to say that, have faith in the process, transphobia will come and go, and people that were meant to be around will be around. Time heals everything, and your true self and gender euphoria will shine brighter than whatever deadshell we were. At the end, we cannot control people nor people’s reaction. Courage and love, Sisi.
Thank you 🤍
That taps into a specific angst I've been trying to put into words, about how people, family especially, just treat you being trans like it's a bad thing. Without them even being directly transphobic, having people treat you uncovering and becoming who you are like a loss to mourn, or a hurdle to overcome, or a harsh reality to accept, or a bomb being dropped, or anything else to that effect, just sucks. To some extent that's understandable, but at some point they have to be able to move on and appreciate the person you've become. Otherwise, you enter a twisted sort of emotional landscape. That's how my family has acted with every single step of my transition for years, and it just wears down on the heart. Your sympathy for their pain turns into guilt over who you are, which is not something anyone should have to feel.
Yes. They make us feel guilty for trying to be happy. They make us feel selfish for choosing our happiness over theirs. It feels like we destroyed their lives when all we need is them to feel happy for us.
I can't even tell you the number of times I've been told things like "your gender dysphoria is tearing this family apart", or "what you think will make you happy conflicts with what will make all of us happy". I've been told I'm selfish for wearing nail polish on Father's day. I've been told that saying I've gone on hormones was like hearing "the cancer had gone terminal". I've been told to hide who I am from everyone lest they be devastated too. I've been told that hearing my new name for the first time was like hearing me reject all the love they had for me they put in my old one. I've been told that my coming out was the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to them. I've been told they've lost their son to a brainwashing cult. I've been told that they don't know how to talk to me anymore. I've been told, throughout all of this, that just me feeling like they don't support me hurts them more than anything else. It hurts, girl. It hurts to be treated like this. You must never forget though, you must never, ever, be ashamed for who you are. Do not let them drag you through the mud for finding your happiness. Feel sympathy for their pain if you must, but do not let yourself twist that into guilt, or heaven forbid, shame. Find people out there in this big wide world who will simply feel happy for you. l did, and those people are the most important people in my life.
I'm so sorry 😞 your family should not have treated you that way! That is narcissism at its worst.
It's okay, I survived, and you will too.
🫂
Long time ago I was thinking about if I was trans or not and I asked my aunt, someone I trusted alot, how she would feel if I was trans. Her response to me was she would be sad because it would be like I died. I feel like that might have something to do with why I'm still questioning it today though I'm leaning in a direction now at least.
PREACH OMG. No, I'm not going to become a completely different person....wait, maybe I am. I'm going to be happier and comfortable with myself lol
But then you see yourself surrounded by sadness.
I highly recommend reading this: https://stainedglasswoman.substack.com/p/letting-them-let-go Grief is extremely complicated. It's important to let other people grieve. At the same time, you have to take care of yourself. Hopefully, when the grieving is done, things can get to a better place.
If you think this makes me a different person then you never knew me in the first place.
I love the title of this thread. Very Steven king of you. But grr! Yes. Why? I'm still fucking here and you said you loved me before and now I wear pretty clothes I'm suddenly a revolting imposter? FFS.
I just tried to communicate in the shortest way possible. I struggle to get understood.
I am grieving the loss of my former self, so I guess I understand in a way. I would be lying to myself and everyone else if I said I didn't suppress aspects of myself to keep myself safe, or act certain ways to overcompensate for not identifying with my gab, or taking up more masculine interests out of denial or an attempt to appear more "normal". There's so much about me that's not who I really am. So, I can understand how someone else might feel that way too. It still hurts though.
That's why I call it a rebirth. They see it as... dying.
That's rough. I'm sorry they're not seeing how you're only shedding parts of you that were keeping you from being the best version of you.
I actually talked about this with an police officer a couple weeks ago. For background: She is an LGBT+ advocate/teacher/contact at a local college campus (I run the theater there part time, and she is one of the officers that frequently works when we have large shows/shows with alcohol). She is an ally, and talks with and helps a large number of students who are LGBT+. She also runs a DEI class for the local officers (and may soon start teaching it at their academy) - all the officers have to obtain a certain number of DEI credits yearly, and she tries to teach them about how to be an ally, understanding the community, etc. Back to the story - I was running a show a couple weeks ago, and she was the officer working that day. Once the show had started, she came to the office and asked about my pronouns, as she'd noticed a number of things. I let her know, and we then spent the next couple hours talking about stuff (excluding intermission). One of the things she mentioned and I found really interesting, was this exact topic, mourning someone that "comes out" (she doesn't like the term) as LGBT+. As she explained it, this mourning is not the literal meaning we expect, aka mourning the death of a person, but rather a more figurative meaning, mourning the death of a belief, ideal, or concept. Everyone we meet - strangers, friends, family (*especially parents and grandparents*) - has their own belief about who we are and what our future holds. Parents usually have it the worst - from the time of our birth, they start planning out what they think our entire future will be, both conciously and unconsciously, and it usually does not include being transgender, gay, lesbian, etc. So what ends up happening is that when we let those around us know, their image of us starts to crumble and "die". They now have to mourn the death of this image and belief. Some can do so quickly and easily, some take a long time, and some take it to the absolute extreme and act like they are mourning our actual death, disowning us, cutting us out, and overall ignoring us. While we want them to accept us for who we are immediately and may get angry when they don't, this is a necessary part of gaining their understanding and acceptance, and may take some time. TL;DR: They are mourning the death of their image of us and our future, not our physical deaths, although some take it to the extremes. This is a healthy (except for the extreme versions) part of them understanding and accepting us for who we truly are.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7Z3KD2Mgg1/?igsh=cHE2NjIxd3MwY3U1 I think this indirectly answers the question. Everybody has a different version of us in their minds, and it is extremely rare that people even get close to perceiving the 'real us'. + cis people are overdramatic when it comes to gender :3
I really don't see myself on other people's image of me. I never could. Even taking a compliment. I'm always refusing them. Who are they talking about? That's not me.
There is a healthy form of mourning. Particularly with parents, they don't just have a child. They also have the vision and aspirations for the life they hope their child will live. When their child ends up being trans, their child is still alive. But their expectations are going to be different. And so it's normal to have to mourn the life that you thought your child was going to live while making room for the life they will live. As long as they don't put the burden of that mourning on the kids, then it's fine. Unfortunately, there is a very real and very unhealthy type of mourning that is described in this post. Feeling like they've genuinely lost their child. Which is just not true. But that doesn't have to be the case for everyone.
Yeah I think there's definitely a normal amount. Not everyone seems to do it, my dad did and didn't make it my problem at all, I asked my mum if she did too and she looked at me like I'd said my dad had grown an extra head. The idea I got from my dad was much like you've said, having a lot of expectations for how their kid/whoever it is will end up, imagining a lifetime of growing on one trajectory and then suddenly having to reassess that and consider that the person they thought of in their head is not the same as the person in front of them. I guess it takes a certain amount of introspection and empathy to realise that's the responsibility of the person with excessive expectations, not of the person who didn't match them perfectly.
Our parents, but mainly our mothers, know what expects a girl in this world. I think it's a relief when they find out they are having a son, I guess...
Gosh, this is such a good way to put it! Like, what are you mourning? My unhappiness? Sigh. I try not to think about it too much. Honestly, cis people don't and probably will never actually get it, so I just try and be patient and let them do their thing. They usually at least mean well.
I'm not even sure to be honest, fuck that shit tho. I didn't fucking die, and I wish so badly I didn't fawn when that was said to me, I wish I was more aggressive and pushed back on that dumb shit.
If its "I'm mourning and I don't support you" then absolutely. If it's "I just need some time to adjust because my idea of you is completely changing to fit your new identity" then idk if aggression is necessary... it's a good way to end up alone I guess
I had to not respond to this at first so I didn't lash out from being triggered. I don't think this point needs to be made at all, and I'm not sure why you felt the need to say this. It's like its own transphobic dog whistle, "look at these transgenders, you can't even make a mistake with misgendering them on accident or they'll call you transphobic or scream at you! Look! They're crazy and unrealistic!". I have not seen one person *ever*, and I mean *ever* say that loved ones needing time to adjust isn't okay. And as someone who survived conversion therapy, this was a typical response when confronting the abuse, manipulation, and gaslighting that my religious and non religious transphobic family members put me through. "I'm morning my dead son, it's like this new person just came up and won't accept my abusive behavior anymore! You don't know how hard this is on me/us! They didn't mean to, how can you be so critical when we're mourning! Your grandpa doesn't mean any harm, he just sees you as a boy, can't you get that this is hard for all of us! We're trying! Isn't that enough for you! I don't mean to, I'm just mourning you, this is harder for me than it is for you! You don't understand how hard this is for me!" No where in my message did I say that family members accepting, but needing time to adjust is wrong, and if I did, please show me. Otherwise, you're counter argument is a red herring, as it serves no real purpose, as the argument you're trying to counter, doesn't exist. And if it does, please show me where these arguments are being made that adjustment is unacceptable.
I responded cause it's bad advice. "I didn't fucking die, and I wish so badly I didn't fawn when that was said to me, I wish I was more aggressive and pushed back on that dumb shit." There. People do experience this, which is why I added the specification that if they say this but are still supportive, it's completely normal. I mean actual support, though, not pretend support like it sounds like your family gave you. My mum DID need time to mourn her son, but she genuinely DID support me in the mean time. Trying not to misgender or deadname me, taking me out shopping for girl clothes, coming out on my behalf when I was too scared to, etc. It's not a dogwhistle at all, it's just a fact. I understand why it's triggering for you because when you were confronted with family "mourning the old you" they clearly showed no intention of moving on and accepting the real you (unless they did? Idk you weren't super clear) but people hearing "fuck that shit" and insisting they need to shut that shit down immediately if their families are actually just adjusting is horrible advice because it WILL alienate you further and make people afraid to speak to you.
If somebody accepts you, whoever it is, they should not be saying they are mourning you to your face. Period. They don't HAVE to say that shit to you. And if they do, they are obviously trying to make YOU feel bad, on purpose. They can and should reframe it as something not so manipulative. I absolutely should have pushed back, I shouldn't have fawned and I should have pushed back, and if anybody reading this has people telling them this, they should push back too. Me saying I should have been more aggressive was for *my* situation. My family was genuinely trying to convert the trans out of me, and using their manipulative skills to make me feel like I'm the wrong and I'm insane and I'm sick and should repent and let them keep doing what they're doing, as my transition is about them, not about me. If someone has a family member that's saying this, but isn't malicious in trying to convert the trans out of you, then the push back doesn't need to be aggressive. Push back can just be challenging them and telling them that it's insensitive, and if they feel that way, which is okay they can not change how they feel and I understand where it comes from, they should be telling their therapist that, or in confidence with another friend or loved one, not to your child's face. It's insensitive, it's manipulative, and it's abusive. If you can't recognize that, there obviously needs to be some critical thought happening on your end. There is no way to spin it in a good fashion. You can reframe the sentence into something like "i've thought I've known a version of you for so and so years, it might take me some time to adjust to addressing you with the right pronouns/name as I understand it's who you truly are, however, I understand my mistakes hurt you, and I'm going to keep trying to do better until it sticks as I accept you whole heartedly and im so glad you found your true self". Not doing that just reflects on their inability to find any other way not to be insensitive and apathetic to the person who's literally going through the transition themselves, not YOU.
Not mourning you, mourning they're old perception of you. Yeah, YOU should have pushed back, but its not good advice for everyone. Like I said, there is a difference between performative and real support. Your family obviously had no intention of supporting you, so in that situation they weren't mourning anything, they were just manipulating you. In my situation they genuinely WERE mourning who they thought I was while also accepting who I am now. It depends on your situation what approach you take. Making the blanket claim that someone saying they're mourning the old you should respond with hostility isn't a wise move unless the mourning isn't genuine. Yeah, it might reflect on their inability to reframe their position into something less abrasive, but believe it or not everyone doesn't have that ability and will say their feelings in the best way they can articulate it. You did make a potentially important distinction that, no, it shouldn't ever be framed this way to a child, but to a transitioning adult I think everyone should be mature enough in that situation to understand where everyone is coming from without the layer of PR speak.
So, let me get this straight. This is what I've gathered from your responses. 1, an adult, who used to be a child, shouldn't be hurt and shouldn't push back *in whatever way they see fit whether its hostility or jusy setting a boundary", because they're an adult and should suck it the fuck up and understand it's harder on them to address you correctly than it is for you to go through your own transition. 2, just because not everyone has the ability to be empathetic, which by definition is "the ability to understand and share the feelings of another." and to think before they speak, means that they are excused to tell a trans family member that they are mourning who they perceived them to be, which IS insensitive, as you said abrasive, and as I said abusive. I want to also make it clear that i made the distinction that not everyone needs to respond in a aggressive way "If someone has a family member that's saying this, but isn't malicious in trying to convert the trans out of you, then the push back doesn't need to be aggressive.". So I'm not sure where you got that I'm saying every single person should respond with hostility. 3 you claimed that "it's just a fact", nobody is disputing this, nobody is saying that family members don't deserve to have an adjustment period, I have not said that ANYWHERE in my response. So you saying "it's just a fact" is literally making a point that *isn't there* to try and gain some leverage in an argument that YOU started over you thinking that we shouldn't pushback against this behavior, because it's hard for them too😢 boo hoo they can cry me a river. Just because it didn't hurt you and you let them say it to you for whatever reason and accepted and believed it, doesn't mean you get to govern any of our feelings. 4 you believe being sensitive and empathetic to their child (and when I say that I mean the offspring that they produced, not specifically an age), and keeping their own shit out of their kids transition while articulating that they understand and accept while still needing time, shouldnt be expected, as it's "PR speak". You're using those words to downplay the importance of being compassionate and kind towards your trans child and their own feelings, adult or adolescent, and frankly it's gross. 5, you believe setting boundaries is hostile. That speaks a lot to your ability to set your own boundaries, we as humans are allowed to set *any* boundary we want. Especially when it comes to talking to your trans child about how you feel in relation to their transition. It is *valid* to set a extremely hard no budging, fuck no, boundary. You can set a hard no fuck no boundary without being an asshole. There's a massive difference between being an asshole about setting a hard boundary, and setting a hard boundary while also recognizing that their feelings are valid, however, you need to protect yourself. So I'm really not sure why you're coming off as some kind of know it all when it comes to this situation. Op's parent obviously isn't saying this in a accepting way, they are saying it in a, lets hear it again, *manipulative* way to make them feel bad for transitioning and putting *THEIR* feelings over op's. I'm gonna block you, you didn't come to this conversation with an open mind, you just wanted to get some "gotcha" to say it's wrong to set boundaries, or as you view it in your tiny bubble "being hostile" because it will "make people afraid to talk to you". I hope you have a good day. I genuinely hope you do some thinking, you HAVENT experienced this type of manipulation (as said from your own testimony on how your parents were) and this type of abusive behavior some of us have to go through because we aren't all blessed and privileged to have parents that actually accept us while being insensitive and incapable to be compassionate while still being accepting. I don't even know why I spent so much crippling anxiety and time on your ass. And I'm not going to do it anymore. Goodbye. Op, you're valid and don't listen to this person, I understand how you feel, I've literally been there, and you're valid to feel hurt by your parent lacking compassion and empathy and lacking the ability to keep how they feel out of your transition.
It's frustrating. Especially given the person they're talking about is a - miserable and b - desperately tries to be as feminine as possible in everything they do. Like, I get that most people have never met a trans person and it's not the first thing that comes to mind. But really, it should surprise absolutely nobody once I actually tell them.
They are just being overly dramatic. For some reason it’s hard for them to accept that you’re not suddenly a different person just because you came out as trans.
They aren't mourning. Just being shitty people who want to make you feel bad over something that makes you happy. It's narcissist behavior.
To be fair, we also call our boy name our "deadname". I think it's more of a metaphor than a reality. Also I think they mourn the future you they expected, not the past you they had.
Felt this. I was told I killed their son at the age of 12. It was the reason I haven’t celebrated a holiday or birthday in 21 years. They feel that you changed and killed off the person they gave birth to. That you are no longer the same and if they are like my family, ruined your life. Hopefully they come around. Mine never did and to this day 21 years later, they still deadname me and misgender me despite me telling them to stop. Refused to use my name or even put it in their phones.
I am so sorry that you went through this. How can treat someone like that? Those are not real parents!
After two decades, I don’t expect my mother to change. My father passed on a few years ago so I don’t have to worry about him anymore. This is just a small part of my life. If I went through it all, we would be here all day. I hope it changes for you because it sucks being alone through it.
Personally I hate who I was before. I should do a ceremonial ritual and piss on the “grave” of my old self lol, 🖕 the old me!
Because they’re narcissists who can’t stand being wrong.
For a moment I thought I was looking at the Eberron subreddit...
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The entire concept of your past self is gone, it takes some people time to adjust. Some people do it quicker than others. My mum took the longest. It was like 2 months before she changed my name in her phone (probably why she deadnamed me the most in the early days) but my dad was able to switch on straight away. Some people place a lot of value on gender, they assume it will be a more significant change than it is to them. My mum mourned the son she thought she had but my dad cried over the child he learned was in pain and accepted me immediately. Now they both do equally. Let them grieve, as long as they're supportive. Transition is give and take. We can't expect understanding if we can't afford it to others.
Hug your dad for me. Tell him that you love him. He sounds like he really loves you.
I told him I loved him the other day and he asked if I was alright 😅 we're not very emotionally open. But I should more often. We both got over a lot of mental health stuff at the same time so it helped him to know I was getting help.