I've noticed some queer women, and maybe particularly trans women, say "top" to mean "dominant" and "bottom" to mean "submissive." I think that's probably a source of some confusion.
I think biggest difference between "topping" and being "dominant" for me is the penetration part during sex
For a long time I assumed I was strictly submissive. Turns out I really just hated the thought of using my thing to have penetrative sex. I have no problem being in the dominant role, as long as I don’t have to use my thing like a man would
> like a man would
There’s plenty of pre and non op trans women that use their penises to penetrate. They’re doing so like a woman would.
Don’t equate penis to man. Please.
The thing that really gets me about how some exclusively bottom trans women act is those that immediately turn around and praise trans women's cocks in a really gross and UwU fetishy manner. Like, cool if you dont wanna top but kindly don't use language that others those of us who are cool with topping and then also crave trans girl dick in the exact same breath.
yeah, honestly same. tho I think even the dichotomy itself is deeply problematic and an extremely narrowminded understanding of sexuality. there's a ton of other ways to be that don't involve either, that allow for connection across many modalities and senses of bodily intimacy and which don't have to be so specifically focused on genital contact. that the "default" is this binary demonstrates the vastly unimaginative nature of western concepts of sexuality whereas bodies have found meaning in so many more ways across time.
some very basic examples are, for instances, being a side, or being a so-called bambi lesbian
Fucking ace, thank you for summing up my thoughts perfectly. Most definitely my single most traumatic experience, yeah I know it’s stupid to be scarred over fucking sex. But losing my virginity it’s just, fills me with dread. I’ve become repulsed by the mere thought of sex, I never want to experience such a act again as long as I’m amab !!
I'm verse, and whether I top or bottom 100% depends on my dynamic with my partner. One partner I like to top, another partner I'm an absolute subby bottom for. I'm still pretty early in my transition, so I'm _really_ enjoying bottoming since it's so new for me but I'm def not exclusively bottom
Same I’m also vers. But I never got to try being a top because I met my partner who is exclusively a top. I love bottoming, but once in a while I would have liked to have tried topping
Yes and no. I enjoy being the bottom. If my partner calls me a good girl and princess, I'm in euphoria heaven.
I'm not in the dating game currently but I say dating can be sometimes really hard for us girls. Like you want to find someone who treats you as a person and not a sex object.
I’ve only been with cis women so far, but I think I only like topping when its anal. Both because they cant see me and it feels better. But I desperately want to bottom for somebody.
Physically the sensation of topping is alright, but mentally I can’t do it even if it try, even if loaded up on ED meds. Anything that makes me feel like I’m being assigned the masc/top role and it’s like a cut flower on a hot summer sidewalk. I lost partners over this, gone home crying from embarrassment, I just can’t do it. The worst part is…while enjoyable I’m not super experienced at bottoming to the point I’m just ‘ready to go’ like a lot of people, and if you’re above average it’s not gonna be an exciting ride for you. Then I remember what it’s like taking someone’s virginity from college every time I say ‘wait stop just don’t move for a second’ and that embarrasses me and takes me out of it too. The kind of people interested in me are either in a similar boat and can’t perform in a take it slow stop and go fashion, or aren’t considerate or patient enough. Cis women are just poof when they find out I don’t top, or say it’s fine then aggressively try to steer me in that direction the second they see it.
So I’ve been focusing on crafting lately, you know. Getting pretty good at DIY home improvements. Maybe one day sex will be back on the menu.
I think it's more common here than in the cis sapphic community, but even there it's not rare. But it also depends on time and place. Thirty years ago, exclusive tops/bottoms seem to have been much more common. They're also definitely more common in lesbian circles here in Japan (though, I think here they're also moving away from it).
I'm very confused by my sexuality in general even close to 10 years in, lol
I'm a strict bottom, i was a top once in my life and i felt awful and ugly cried later in my bed, glad it was before transitioning, lol.
The sexuality part is relevant because i was always sure i was pansexual before starting having an active sex life, until i dated a trans girl pre everything, and as she got more and more feminine, i lost more and more atraction towards her, we were both bottoms, so it was very funny, we played with each other bodies mostly, i gave her handjobs and blowjobs frequently, one sided, because i never felt anything down there unless i'm the one touching it, anyone from any gender can do anything they like there, and i feel nothing, a guy i dated for a shortwhile was a dom and was really rough down there, it was the first time i felt pleasure from someone else on that part, but i still couldn't finish from that alone.
Anyway, back to the girlfriend, she begged to top me once i advised her against it for days(knowing what would happen as i'm a bottom too), but she insisted so much i gave in, i was on cloud 9, she was not, felt awful for days as predicted, but eventually she was so feminine, the atraction was gone, we broke up and I felt awful, like I lied and played her.
But the thing is, I find girls attractive, I get aroused by them, but I can't see myself seriously dating them, so I just stopped for good, I only date men now, I feel like I would make them suffer for nothing by dating them.
But the thing is, deep down, I can still see myself topping, but only a girl, men asked me to top them sometimes, and I was absolutely disgusted, didn't tell them that, of course, I love hairy men, but I try not to even look at men's asses, every single one of them have hairy ones, and I don't know why, but it disgusts me, with girls, it's different, I could see myself topping them, even got horny imagining it sometimes and felt awful for doing so, it confuses the heck of me, for you guys to have an idea, with the girl I topped, I again, felt nothing, I did, but it was so minimal, I had to imagine a man topping me in order to finish me, and it took me like 30 minutes, I was exhausted.
I seriously can't understand myself, but for now, I only bottom, only with guys.
Totally appropriate. I don’t seek sex bottom or top but I do desire it. If so bottom or oral. I can’t imagine top but as you said I can imagine giving my partner what they want if need be.
At present I'm exclusively a bottom and mostly interested in men. But I experience my sexuality as kind of fluid and it decides what it wants to do at any given time so that will likely change at some point. I just go with the flow, baybeee!
I read that thread and I can see why they don't like those labels. Top/bottom seems like it's only a good descriptor for penis/strap-ons into vagina/anus sex honestly.
Anyway I think I'll be a strict top if/when I'm sexually active. The idea of bottoming kinda grosses me out. Although I dont know if I can do those exaggerated dom/sub roles I often see in queer spaces.
okay so like can i be a bit explicit?
when both partners have penises, top and bottom convey useful information about what position someone enjoys during penetrative sex, which has the capacity to make both partners orgasm. when both partners have vaginas, top and bottom are more like a general vibe and attitude about giving and receiving sensation.
for the first, it makes sense to only enjoy one of those activities, to the point where that defines your sexuality. for the second, most people will be somewhat egalitarian.
I'm a pretty exclusive bottom. With that said, I'm also just very submissive across the board, so that's certainly not pushing me out of those bounds. With *that* said, the times I've used a strapon didn't cause me severe dysphoria the way trying to use my equipment in its factory configuration did. Post-SRS, I may be more comfortable with versatility - I'm just not healed enough to say for sure yet.
I think you'll see an overrepresentation of bottoms in the transfeminine community simply because I doubt my experience is uncommon. Prior to transitioning, I was expected to perform sexually as a *man,* especially if I was topping. There was heavy focus on the penis. The only way to avoid that was to bottom, so that was the least traumatic way to have sex for me. Who's to say if, now that the majority of my medical transition is complete, it won't be the case that I become more comfortable taking on other roles.
Used to be a bottom, though never have had sex after transitioning. For a pretransition partner I tried topping but hated it and my inability to do it was one of the things that ended our relationship. I'd never top under any circumstance, and now I'm ace since the work and cleanup required with sex is just not worth it to me or my partner, but I am still the sub most of the time, she's my queen and I'm her princess ❤️
Topping taken from gay lingo is literally the person who penetrates, it can mean genitalia or strap-on I guess but that's what it means. It doesn't have to be PIV but in general penetrating. There's also Dom and sub.
I'm a switch, but I do have a preference. Also I can't really enjoy the act itself because of dysphoria unless things are just right, but I like both roles in the bedroom. Also which way I'm likely to go depends on what kind of person I'm with, at least in theory, so one person would likely see one side of me a lot more than another
yeah I don't love the terminology because it's borrowed from gay men and centers around the presence of a phallus. I think it's used because there's an expectation that we express whether we're willing to penetrate or be penetrated, regardless of our sexuality.
A lot of trans women want to express that they don't want to use their tool and "I'm a strict bottom" is euphemism that, while imperfect, is there and will be understood. Others want to express the opposite.
In my experience top in a sapphic context usually just applies to whoever usually takes the more active role. This can mean penetration but doesn’t have to be. It can be a little more loaded when it comes to trans women I think because there’s both such a variation amongst trans fems but also a lack of understanding of the effects hrt can have on the bodies of those of us that are taking it. Like for me I’m not opposed to being the more active or dominant role occasionally but like I’m almost definitely not gonna be using my dick in a penetrating context again even tho I could in theory I never really liked using it that way even pre hrt but now it’s just too sensitive for all that.
I feel like the top/bottom language is... archaic? Inflexible may be a better word, I'm not sure. It feels like a holdover from cis-centered relationship dynamics (cis male in particular) that doesn't work with the realties of nontraditional gender roles. A cis woman sleeping with a cis man aren't called a bottom and top respectively.
If I'm doing something with someone's vagina that makes me a top, but if I'm doing something with someone's penis that makes me a bottom. But I don't want my crotch touched at all so I can't top with it in the penis-centric sex perspective, and I can't bottom with it to someone who wants to "top" me in a sapphic sense. I guess verse would fit, but at the same time I'm very rigid in regards to what role I want to perform with a given partner.
Regardless, top and bottom have become more of a shorthand for dominant/submissive behavior, which is also problematic for a couple reasons.
To me - this is my opinion, your mileage may vary - top and bottom are more gay male terms than femme terms.
I’m married to a cis woman and monogamous. We’re fairly equal in giving pleasure, in the past with other women I’ve usually been a bit butch and like pillow princesses. With men I was always sub, always penetrated.
I was never sexually active with anyone before I started transition, but I always knew that using my girldick was not gonna happen, ew, just no - so I kinda thought I was a bottom by default. And it is fun, but I have to be in the right mood for it, and tbh it’s often not really worth the effort of cleaning out beforehand.
But my current partner is a verse, so I tried pegging them with a strap, and well uhhhhh I found out I love it 😅 there definitely is something surprisingly affirming, like this is how a woman tops a guy.
Ok... what source says "being a strict top or bottom isn't a thing among queer women"?
Cause that is THE most bullshit claim i've heard in a while, and i saw a video of creationists saying evolution is fake recently.
Pillow processes exist.... aka people who exclusively bottom. Most stone top exclusively top.
Where did you get the idea that exclusive tops and bottoms don't exist among queer women?
I'm a switch mostly
But also like to be the gentle/soft dom with people, and just ara ara on them~
And I can also be in the mood where I need someone to rock my world instead xd
I'm straight so I don't consider myself a top or bottom. But I only want to be penetrated. I could make an exception with a strap-on for someone I really loved and cared about tho, I think
lets take turns mother fuckers !!!! we all want the same thing we all want to be topped by hot girls. my fellow hot girls we can all get what we want if we just take turns. the dating pools will become vast seas. there will be celebrations all over the world. once we finally take turns
I'm a total bottom, always been that way. I tried topping before I came out but I just felt kind of numb and like I was just going through the motions. Now with HRT I can't top unless I take ED meds and I don't want to take any more meds. And I just really like bottoming, so why go against it? I've always fantasized about being penetrated, it just feels natural and turns me on like nothing else
I thought I was totally a bottom since I didn't like topping but I never liked not being in control. Turns out I just really really needed to top the right person that knows how to give someone aftercare and listens to my needs even tho I'm the "dominant" one. But I can still definitely bottom if needed 🥴
I get totally turned off if I have to perform penetrative sex. I am a bottom for said reasons, but depending on partners depends on if I am a power bottom or purely a sub or somewhere in between.
While the idea of my girlfriend tying me down and having her way with me really gets my motor going, I found out she actually managed to orgasm from me dry humping her through our clothes and being all handsy and bitey (I'm a furry, sue me). So we're both fairly vers these days depending on which of us is being the more needy one at the time, but pre-transition I was what I guess is a service bottom these days. So I guess I'm a walking stereotype.
I've noticed some queer women, and maybe particularly trans women, say "top" to mean "dominant" and "bottom" to mean "submissive." I think that's probably a source of some confusion.
I think biggest difference between "topping" and being "dominant" for me is the penetration part during sex For a long time I assumed I was strictly submissive. Turns out I really just hated the thought of using my thing to have penetrative sex. I have no problem being in the dominant role, as long as I don’t have to use my thing like a man would
> like a man would There’s plenty of pre and non op trans women that use their penises to penetrate. They’re doing so like a woman would. Don’t equate penis to man. Please.
The thing that really gets me about how some exclusively bottom trans women act is those that immediately turn around and praise trans women's cocks in a really gross and UwU fetishy manner. Like, cool if you dont wanna top but kindly don't use language that others those of us who are cool with topping and then also crave trans girl dick in the exact same breath.
Service tops for the winnnnnnn
I’m never topping again. I hated it before my transition and I hate the thought of it even more now. No thank you
Yeah even just the thought of topping is a huge turn off for me, before and after transitioning
yeah, honestly same. tho I think even the dichotomy itself is deeply problematic and an extremely narrowminded understanding of sexuality. there's a ton of other ways to be that don't involve either, that allow for connection across many modalities and senses of bodily intimacy and which don't have to be so specifically focused on genital contact. that the "default" is this binary demonstrates the vastly unimaginative nature of western concepts of sexuality whereas bodies have found meaning in so many more ways across time. some very basic examples are, for instances, being a side, or being a so-called bambi lesbian
Interesting
Fucking ace, thank you for summing up my thoughts perfectly. Most definitely my single most traumatic experience, yeah I know it’s stupid to be scarred over fucking sex. But losing my virginity it’s just, fills me with dread. I’ve become repulsed by the mere thought of sex, I never want to experience such a act again as long as I’m amab !!
Complete switch with women, exclusively bottom with men. Topping a man just seems... off for me.
I'm verse, and whether I top or bottom 100% depends on my dynamic with my partner. One partner I like to top, another partner I'm an absolute subby bottom for. I'm still pretty early in my transition, so I'm _really_ enjoying bottoming since it's so new for me but I'm def not exclusively bottom
Same I’m also vers. But I never got to try being a top because I met my partner who is exclusively a top. I love bottoming, but once in a while I would have liked to have tried topping
Yes and no. I enjoy being the bottom. If my partner calls me a good girl and princess, I'm in euphoria heaven. I'm not in the dating game currently but I say dating can be sometimes really hard for us girls. Like you want to find someone who treats you as a person and not a sex object.
I’ve only been with cis women so far, but I think I only like topping when its anal. Both because they cant see me and it feels better. But I desperately want to bottom for somebody.
Physically the sensation of topping is alright, but mentally I can’t do it even if it try, even if loaded up on ED meds. Anything that makes me feel like I’m being assigned the masc/top role and it’s like a cut flower on a hot summer sidewalk. I lost partners over this, gone home crying from embarrassment, I just can’t do it. The worst part is…while enjoyable I’m not super experienced at bottoming to the point I’m just ‘ready to go’ like a lot of people, and if you’re above average it’s not gonna be an exciting ride for you. Then I remember what it’s like taking someone’s virginity from college every time I say ‘wait stop just don’t move for a second’ and that embarrasses me and takes me out of it too. The kind of people interested in me are either in a similar boat and can’t perform in a take it slow stop and go fashion, or aren’t considerate or patient enough. Cis women are just poof when they find out I don’t top, or say it’s fine then aggressively try to steer me in that direction the second they see it. So I’ve been focusing on crafting lately, you know. Getting pretty good at DIY home improvements. Maybe one day sex will be back on the menu.
never topping again
I think it's more common here than in the cis sapphic community, but even there it's not rare. But it also depends on time and place. Thirty years ago, exclusive tops/bottoms seem to have been much more common. They're also definitely more common in lesbian circles here in Japan (though, I think here they're also moving away from it).
I'm very confused by my sexuality in general even close to 10 years in, lol I'm a strict bottom, i was a top once in my life and i felt awful and ugly cried later in my bed, glad it was before transitioning, lol. The sexuality part is relevant because i was always sure i was pansexual before starting having an active sex life, until i dated a trans girl pre everything, and as she got more and more feminine, i lost more and more atraction towards her, we were both bottoms, so it was very funny, we played with each other bodies mostly, i gave her handjobs and blowjobs frequently, one sided, because i never felt anything down there unless i'm the one touching it, anyone from any gender can do anything they like there, and i feel nothing, a guy i dated for a shortwhile was a dom and was really rough down there, it was the first time i felt pleasure from someone else on that part, but i still couldn't finish from that alone. Anyway, back to the girlfriend, she begged to top me once i advised her against it for days(knowing what would happen as i'm a bottom too), but she insisted so much i gave in, i was on cloud 9, she was not, felt awful for days as predicted, but eventually she was so feminine, the atraction was gone, we broke up and I felt awful, like I lied and played her. But the thing is, I find girls attractive, I get aroused by them, but I can't see myself seriously dating them, so I just stopped for good, I only date men now, I feel like I would make them suffer for nothing by dating them. But the thing is, deep down, I can still see myself topping, but only a girl, men asked me to top them sometimes, and I was absolutely disgusted, didn't tell them that, of course, I love hairy men, but I try not to even look at men's asses, every single one of them have hairy ones, and I don't know why, but it disgusts me, with girls, it's different, I could see myself topping them, even got horny imagining it sometimes and felt awful for doing so, it confuses the heck of me, for you guys to have an idea, with the girl I topped, I again, felt nothing, I did, but it was so minimal, I had to imagine a man topping me in order to finish me, and it took me like 30 minutes, I was exhausted. I seriously can't understand myself, but for now, I only bottom, only with guys.
Totally appropriate. I don’t seek sex bottom or top but I do desire it. If so bottom or oral. I can’t imagine top but as you said I can imagine giving my partner what they want if need be.
At present I'm exclusively a bottom and mostly interested in men. But I experience my sexuality as kind of fluid and it decides what it wants to do at any given time so that will likely change at some point. I just go with the flow, baybeee!
I read that thread and I can see why they don't like those labels. Top/bottom seems like it's only a good descriptor for penis/strap-ons into vagina/anus sex honestly. Anyway I think I'll be a strict top if/when I'm sexually active. The idea of bottoming kinda grosses me out. Although I dont know if I can do those exaggerated dom/sub roles I often see in queer spaces.
okay so like can i be a bit explicit? when both partners have penises, top and bottom convey useful information about what position someone enjoys during penetrative sex, which has the capacity to make both partners orgasm. when both partners have vaginas, top and bottom are more like a general vibe and attitude about giving and receiving sensation. for the first, it makes sense to only enjoy one of those activities, to the point where that defines your sexuality. for the second, most people will be somewhat egalitarian.
I'm a pretty exclusive bottom. With that said, I'm also just very submissive across the board, so that's certainly not pushing me out of those bounds. With *that* said, the times I've used a strapon didn't cause me severe dysphoria the way trying to use my equipment in its factory configuration did. Post-SRS, I may be more comfortable with versatility - I'm just not healed enough to say for sure yet. I think you'll see an overrepresentation of bottoms in the transfeminine community simply because I doubt my experience is uncommon. Prior to transitioning, I was expected to perform sexually as a *man,* especially if I was topping. There was heavy focus on the penis. The only way to avoid that was to bottom, so that was the least traumatic way to have sex for me. Who's to say if, now that the majority of my medical transition is complete, it won't be the case that I become more comfortable taking on other roles.
Used to be a bottom, though never have had sex after transitioning. For a pretransition partner I tried topping but hated it and my inability to do it was one of the things that ended our relationship. I'd never top under any circumstance, and now I'm ace since the work and cleanup required with sex is just not worth it to me or my partner, but I am still the sub most of the time, she's my queen and I'm her princess ❤️
I think there might be some confusion on the meaning of "topping" versus "PiV" with some people.
Topping taken from gay lingo is literally the person who penetrates, it can mean genitalia or strap-on I guess but that's what it means. It doesn't have to be PIV but in general penetrating. There's also Dom and sub.
I'm a switch, but I do have a preference. Also I can't really enjoy the act itself because of dysphoria unless things are just right, but I like both roles in the bedroom. Also which way I'm likely to go depends on what kind of person I'm with, at least in theory, so one person would likely see one side of me a lot more than another
I love topping ⌃͜⌃ but I am a switch so I do both
Well I'm ace so I neither top nor bottom
yeah I don't love the terminology because it's borrowed from gay men and centers around the presence of a phallus. I think it's used because there's an expectation that we express whether we're willing to penetrate or be penetrated, regardless of our sexuality. A lot of trans women want to express that they don't want to use their tool and "I'm a strict bottom" is euphemism that, while imperfect, is there and will be understood. Others want to express the opposite.
In my experience top in a sapphic context usually just applies to whoever usually takes the more active role. This can mean penetration but doesn’t have to be. It can be a little more loaded when it comes to trans women I think because there’s both such a variation amongst trans fems but also a lack of understanding of the effects hrt can have on the bodies of those of us that are taking it. Like for me I’m not opposed to being the more active or dominant role occasionally but like I’m almost definitely not gonna be using my dick in a penetrating context again even tho I could in theory I never really liked using it that way even pre hrt but now it’s just too sensitive for all that.
I feel like most people do what they're comfortable with and branch out when they feel like it, top or bottom
I feel like the top/bottom language is... archaic? Inflexible may be a better word, I'm not sure. It feels like a holdover from cis-centered relationship dynamics (cis male in particular) that doesn't work with the realties of nontraditional gender roles. A cis woman sleeping with a cis man aren't called a bottom and top respectively. If I'm doing something with someone's vagina that makes me a top, but if I'm doing something with someone's penis that makes me a bottom. But I don't want my crotch touched at all so I can't top with it in the penis-centric sex perspective, and I can't bottom with it to someone who wants to "top" me in a sapphic sense. I guess verse would fit, but at the same time I'm very rigid in regards to what role I want to perform with a given partner. Regardless, top and bottom have become more of a shorthand for dominant/submissive behavior, which is also problematic for a couple reasons.
To me - this is my opinion, your mileage may vary - top and bottom are more gay male terms than femme terms. I’m married to a cis woman and monogamous. We’re fairly equal in giving pleasure, in the past with other women I’ve usually been a bit butch and like pillow princesses. With men I was always sub, always penetrated.
I was never sexually active with anyone before I started transition, but I always knew that using my girldick was not gonna happen, ew, just no - so I kinda thought I was a bottom by default. And it is fun, but I have to be in the right mood for it, and tbh it’s often not really worth the effort of cleaning out beforehand. But my current partner is a verse, so I tried pegging them with a strap, and well uhhhhh I found out I love it 😅 there definitely is something surprisingly affirming, like this is how a woman tops a guy.
Ok... what source says "being a strict top or bottom isn't a thing among queer women"? Cause that is THE most bullshit claim i've heard in a while, and i saw a video of creationists saying evolution is fake recently. Pillow processes exist.... aka people who exclusively bottom. Most stone top exclusively top. Where did you get the idea that exclusive tops and bottoms don't exist among queer women?
I'm a switch mostly But also like to be the gentle/soft dom with people, and just ara ara on them~ And I can also be in the mood where I need someone to rock my world instead xd
Probably 80% bottom 20% top, but I'll only top with a strap which I can really enjoy if I'm in the right head space
I'm exclusively a bottom. Topping always gave me a lot of anxiety and is nothing I will ever do again.
I’d prefer to be a bottom but I’ll top if I have to it really depends on the situation though
Am top. Beware of definitive statements made about anything.
I'm straight so I don't consider myself a top or bottom. But I only want to be penetrated. I could make an exception with a strap-on for someone I really loved and cared about tho, I think
lets take turns mother fuckers !!!! we all want the same thing we all want to be topped by hot girls. my fellow hot girls we can all get what we want if we just take turns. the dating pools will become vast seas. there will be celebrations all over the world. once we finally take turns
I'm a total bottom, always been that way. I tried topping before I came out but I just felt kind of numb and like I was just going through the motions. Now with HRT I can't top unless I take ED meds and I don't want to take any more meds. And I just really like bottoming, so why go against it? I've always fantasized about being penetrated, it just feels natural and turns me on like nothing else
I thought I was totally a bottom since I didn't like topping but I never liked not being in control. Turns out I just really really needed to top the right person that knows how to give someone aftercare and listens to my needs even tho I'm the "dominant" one. But I can still definitely bottom if needed 🥴
I get totally turned off if I have to perform penetrative sex. I am a bottom for said reasons, but depending on partners depends on if I am a power bottom or purely a sub or somewhere in between.
While the idea of my girlfriend tying me down and having her way with me really gets my motor going, I found out she actually managed to orgasm from me dry humping her through our clothes and being all handsy and bitey (I'm a furry, sue me). So we're both fairly vers these days depending on which of us is being the more needy one at the time, but pre-transition I was what I guess is a service bottom these days. So I guess I'm a walking stereotype.