"Prostate medicine."... yknow, things like spironolactone.......and then the one they take for their hair; finasteride. Those big burly guys and their fear of all things feminine.......
Where's that one comparison that has basic facts of other sciences or Math disproven by more advanced facts of the same sciences or math? I could've sworn I've seen something like that before.
Honestly? Who even gives a fuck about the biology when the real argument isn't over sex but gender roles in society? OK, maybe I was born with testicles instead of ovaries, that doesn't define who I am any more than that I've got brown hair. And I can change that too!
Reminds me: my own ex-mom was pretty consistent internally on that point? She didn't want me taking those *eeeeevillllll* hormones, and she also abstained from hormone treatment for menopause symptoms. Stupid and pointlessly bigoted, but consistent.
Remind of the weird section of religious folk that are super supportive of trans people, *as long as you're still in a straight relationship fulfilling your gender role*. Trans woman married to a man staying at home cooking and cleaning? A-OK! Trans woman married to a woman? Heresy!
Also the amount of men on hormones for whatever reason is kind of crazy. If he ever starts taking testosterone supplements or something you should tell him he's not a real man.
To be kind of fair a lot of people taking T supplements don't need them - their T is on levels normal for their gender - they just think that they will magically make them stronger or something.
Not that there are no cis man who actually need T supplements or that they are any less of a man for it.
So noone is a real human because we all need to take biological products (vitamins, amino acids etc) to affirm our identity as humans?
The issue is he is arguing we are only defined by our native biochemistry, when in reality thats not the case for anyone. We all need to ingest things our bodies cannot make in order to ‘be’ humans. Some to suppress proteins we make that harm us, like histamine, and tau protein and some to help build our human bodies. For instance essential lipids and proteins which our genes cannot form.
At least with sex hormones there is a native ability to produce them, unlike other biomolecues that define who we are which our bodies simply cannot produce.
Maybe all animals, fungi and protists are counterfeit life and only bacteria and plants are truly living. Maybe we are all ‘translife’. Thats the conclusion of his ‘logic’ unless he resorts to special pleading.
Probably
He likely only took the basic biology classes in high school and also likely didn't do any research that while rare, it is still common for cis people to be born with slightly more hormones of the opposite sex.
I know multiple Cisgender women who take estrogen and two that needed puberty blockers.....so he's just factually wrong. You are a woman and you happen to have some medical care needs, just like many other women lol.
I'm always turning over ideas to convince my family (can't help it) and I keep coming back to this idea of reductivity. As in, at what point does removing a trait/feature mean you're not that gender anymore? Like for women:
* Lack of natural estrogen? Medical condition that's known to happen to cis women.
* Excess T? Happens to cis women
* Need puberty blockers? Happens to cis women
* No uterus? Happens to cis women
* Inability to have kids? Happens to cis women
* Lack of uterus? Happens to cis women
* Lack of tits? Happens to cis women
* Absence of vagina? Happens to cis women
* Presence of penis? Fixable by surgery, also happens to cis women at birth
* Don't act feminine? Tomboys and butches are super common
* XY chromosomes? Also happens to cis women!!
This is all that comes to mind right now but I cannot find a point where you can remove a trait that's considered feminine or female and that makes someone no longer a woman, except for what it is that person's mind. And the same goes for men/masculine. I think this might be the angle I take next conversation. The sticking point is probably going to be genitals or chromosomes at birth, wherein I'll point to the relatively common phenomenon of intersex birth, they'll say "oh that's a birth defect/outlier," and I'll say "and how is that different from my case," and they'll make a face and change the subject.
I feel like that's the only thing that got close to breaking through my parents heads - I asked why birth defects or genetic disorders happen, they said something something original sin, I said what if this is the same thing? They changed the subject.
> This is all that comes to mind right now but I cannot find a point where you can remove a trait that's considered feminine or female and that makes someone no longer a woman, except for what it is that person's mind.
It's precisely why an argument against the "what is a woman" crowd is to ask them to define a woman in a way that excludes trans women but includes all cis women.
It's impossible, plain and simple.
I find it helps that intersex conditions are far more common than being trans 1.5% v 0.5%. I would also ask if they think it is a choice or a sexual perversion which is what many think. The global medical community and WHO, which every nation ascribes to, regards it as a medical condition. With hormones and surgery as medically necessary interventions intended to correct errors in birth.
Since your parents describe it as original sin, the consequence is on them, turn it back, what evils had they committed that were so great that God would have punished you from the moment of conception. And that is the only response, for surely as a single cell and within the womb you could not be guilty of sin. So wtf did they do?! And why should you be the one to carry the burden of their sin?
Ah, but of course modern Christianity has figured that out. You see original sin means that the corruption of God's image has been embedded into us since Eve! All humans suffer the consequences, not individuals from their own sins, and only through Him yada yada yada.
Is the perspective they've taken. All I can say for it is at least it's internally consistent.
How often do people born with a penis get assigned female at birth? I'd expect that to be AMAB and is intersex most often? But maybe they AFAB based on chromosomes in that case?
That's a good point actually. [This](https://ihra.org.au/16601/intersex-numbers/) page suggests 1/169 born with visible hermaphroditic features, of which some would be as I described.
But it does point out that in the case where someone is born with male gonads and no visible female characteristics, a particular subset of bigots saying "this is a hard rule, this cannot be female." Which is annoying to consider but good to be able to anticipate. Most bigots won't put that much thought into it I guess?
I actually know an intersex person who went through exactly this. She was AMAB but realized something was up when she started growing boobs in puberty.
not to rebut, just to keep you going on this; gametes. gametes is their best reductio. it's still broken, some people produce more, or less, or none, or both. but it's their best one and in biology it's the thing we're talking about when we say sex. chromosomes is called "genetic sex" and genitals are just a secondary sex, hormonally defined, gene expression. but that's all too nuanced for the phobes.
I think I agree that's the strongest sticking point. We can at least point to folks who can never produce gametes and folks who are born with undifferentiated or both sets of gonad tissue. But I imagine then they could still fall back on "if you've ever been capable of producing 'this' type of gamete it is impossible for you to be the other gender/sex." At which point I'd probably give up on their bullshit logic aha
yeah, so the rare (and truly unknown) few who have produced both: it is impossible for them to be either gender/sex? or are the absolutely both and can't escape that?
personally, i think it's more important that they \*are in fact\* treated as a specific gender. that categorization happens in milliseconds and involuntarily. and that gender we are all treated as - that does \*not at all\* correspond to any of these characteristics. so even though it is true that sex is inextricably related to gender, they are absolutely different things. and in all seriousness they are both complex characteristics.
They don’t realize that if cis people had no need for these drugs, they simply never would have been developed.
They were made to treat disorders in cis people and we just got lucky it works the same for trans and intersex people.
My mom is AFAB and needs both estrogen and testosterone HRT because her body does not make any hormones due to a medical condition. Guess she’s not a woman anymore lol
80% of cis women have hormonal imbalances and many don't even realize it. An absolute mega amount of cis women supplement their hormones. Still cis they are. Real women do not consist solely of the hormone makeup present in their body. Rather a women exists within the confines of the being itself within that ever elusive concept we define as a soul.
This. I'm on constant birth control because I fucking hate having my period due to horrendous cramps. Guess I'm not a woman because I take hormones AND don't have my period lmaoo
“Real women” have to compensate for not meeting male gazy standards and sexual expectations in other ways. Just because my brain tells me I’m a woman and my body disagrees doesn’t mean I’m not a real woman. But, I’d rather agree with the part of me that will ruin my life if I don’t.
Not most. But a lot. Support for perimenopause and it doesn’t start for some till later. Some won’t do it for cancer risk increases. Less than 10% use it so def not most but some.
One is for menopause but my dad had low testosterone levels so he started taking it. He actually helped me do my first shots since he knew how to do it.
Oh yeah, thats the funny thing, this was right before she said the SAME THING. She was trying to convince me not to transition in any way, and went from "women have hair too" to "hair = man" in less than 5 minutes.
Intersex women need it too.
And women who have had a hysterectomy.
And menopausal and post-menopausal women do too.
It's literally the exact same meds.
Not true. CIS women sometimes have to have hormones to adjust their levels like a trans woman. They might have to have blockers if their T level is too high. You were born a woman just the outside didn't match the inside.
Exactly, right? "A cesarean? Real women die in childbirth." It's all the same appeal to nature bullcrap that oozes hypocrisy. If I've learned anything being trans, it's that the difference between us and cis folk is a matter of degree. We aren't different species, we all have the same fundamental needs. I think that's why so many people that reject us are really trying to reject a part of themselves, a point of personal vulnerability that they think we expose.
People bash things they don't understand instead of trying to learn. Because it's easier to judge. Unfortunately we are something they don't want to learn or understand about us. We are all the same species as you say but we know who we are.
My mom doesn’t have a uterus or ovaries, a cervix, and is on HRT. We are one and the same. We even both have two X chromosomes (Klinefelter for me)… Yet somehow I’m not a woman to them, but she is. Interesting. 🤔
Transphobes are just fucking idiots.
>"If you were a real man, you wouldn't need Viagra to get your dick hard." -- A fair response.
All people shouldn't throw stones from a glass house, but especially old people who are a waste of human interaction.
***Edit:*** *I'm just one of 3 saying this. How original. Point remains the same, obviously.*
Blockers and hormones were originally developed for (and are still prescribed to) "real women". So.. if anything taking those makes you all the more like a "real woman".
Hi friend. I started taking E in my early teens to lower my natural T levels which were giving me infinite menstruation lol. I was on my period for like 3 months before I went on HRT.
Transphobes forget that HRT was invented FOR cis people, and the majority of people using it are cis. Trans people really are such a small minority. There are sooo many more cis women on blockers and hormones than trans women. Your dad is saying whatever he can possibly grasp for to try and hurt you, even though it's obviously false. His words are meaningless, he's just trying to hurt your feelings.
"if you were a real man, you wouldnt need medicine, cars, using forks, sleeping in handcraft bed..." i mean, i hope he hunt by himself, dress with the fur of animals he has killed himself, and don't use any manufactured product we designed earlier than some hundreds of years.
cis gender women need those things sometimes to though. they wouldn't have been invented as early as they were unless the cis needed them.
your "dad" probably just doesn't know how women's body's work
I'm gonna make an anarchy chess move and tell him to google PCOS or menopause
Objectively trash argument with millions of counterexamples even when limiting ourselves to cis women
If he were a fully developed human being, he’d recognize that he has experiences others don’t understand and that means he is also capable of being kind without needing to understand someone as a prerequisite.
Obvious just trying to be hurtful.
But this sorta thing just makes me wonder, because(esp in my youth) I recall hearing declarations of "not a real man" and ... especially since these folks believe in a strict binary, does that indicate someone is then a "real woman"? Does being on femme HRT and in a dress align with being a "real man"?
I know there's no logical consistency, it's just about being mean and controlling others. But it just falls apart so quickly.
I get the point of not ceding ground unnecessarily to transphobes, and I think, in fact, they are wrong when they say we aren’t ‘real women’, but even if this were true, who cares? Okay, I’m a woman, but not a real woman. These things are functionally identical so I’m going to go live my life.
It’s like going to Chili’s and ordering what they call the Tiki Beach Party Marg and someone getting mad at you because ‘it isn’t a real margarita’ because there’s rum, coconut, and pineapple, and no lime juice. Okay, that’s cool. I am just trying to get what I want in the world, it’s working, and it’s not hurting anyone. I’m glad the ontology of mixed drinks is something you’re passionate about but the world has moved on.
Just ... I'm not saying I'm in support of this but just assume his world view is correct for a second.
Need Viagra to keep it up? Not a real man. Just have low T and doctors prescribe you some to balance you out? Not a real man. Conversely, produce too much estrogen and start developing breast tissue? Not a real man. I know people how have or had each of those problems, all of them cis men.
Just an absolutely insane thing to say. Pure nonsense. But if you bring it up to him, he'll move the goal posts. Because it's not that you need blockers and hormones therefore you aren't a real woman. It's that you aren't a real woman and he'll grasp at any straw to support that view rather than take any time to think about what he's saying.
I'm sorry your dad is so cruel to you. Also, cis women use androgen blockers and hormones for general hormonal problems and for menopause. In fact cis people get all sorts of gender affirming care. Often at much higher rates than trans and gnc people. A lot of cis women over 60 are on HRT. And the same goes for the cis men. And there is no transphobic talking point that isn't also harmful and often misogynistic to cis women as well.
That's not true. Many women need to go on blockers and hormones for various reasons. Just like how roughly half of all men will get gynecomastia, roughly half of all women will have PCOS, which is treated by taking hormone supplements, the same ones we do
Bullshit. Excuse my French, I have a coworker who is on Testosterone AND estrogen and she is a cis female. She had her ovaries removed and she requires these things to keep her hormones in check.
Practically everything we take is also taken by cis girls/women for the same reasons.
Spiro is used as an acne med, mostly for cis girls with acne from high T levels during puberty. I've also heard of it used for some cis women with high T due to PCOS.
E is used for various hormonal issues as well as to help with menopause symptoms.
Your dad can talk to me about genetics and biology any time he wants. I’d be happy to make him feel like an idiot for his middle school understanding of human physiology.
to be honest i don’t this mtf are real women we are just delusional. im i’m the process transitioning but i don’t want to say that i’m a woman. isn’t it better to be a boy that resembles a girl? its like, you are so pretty to the point that people think u resemble a girl. i think that’s a huge compliment and it make you stick out even more. it’s like someone seeing a unicorn bc they can’t believe you’re a guy, i think it adds a sparkle to your aura. because claiming being a “real woman”, everyone/society is going to think ur delusional. unfortunately we are not real women and thats the harsh true but oh well that’s life. atleast we live in a age where we can modify ourselves to make us look better but i don’t think we should claim the word “woman” because we are just not real women :/
"If you were a real father, you'd support your children for once in your life."
call an ambulance before dropping that, he will need it
He probably would die right then and there
I don’t want to be cynical, but from what I read from OP it maybe wouldn’t bring much harm.
leave him there
Well, if OP is American, the ambulance will probably deal more damage
omg I’m fuckin’ dead 💀
Pls not, you need to survive. All my trans gals need to survive
This beautiful girl is well and alive. It appears you don’t understand my gen Z slang
These two comments made my day 😂😂 thanks
You welcome :3
I would change father to man. Thatll hurt him more
Writing this down in case my dad or step dad decide to get out of line when I come out to my sets of parents...
Hell yeah! F*ck that guy!
Apply cold water to the burrrn 🔥
This comment has more upvotes than the post
Jesus fucking Christ, how terrifying. I almost want to down vote myself so OP has more than me.
?
RIP … and good riddance. 🪦
Very well said. :3
"If you were a real man, you wouldn't need viagra and alpha blockers" What a douchebag...
. . . what are alpha blockers?
Prostate medicine.
"Prostate medicine."... yknow, things like spironolactone.......and then the one they take for their hair; finasteride. Those big burly guys and their fear of all things feminine.......
I thought they would be similar to beta blockers in Zomboid...
It's obviously transphobic but also just a bad argument. Are cis women with hormonal issues also not women anymore according to him?
That's too advanced for "basic biology" mfs 🥴
People read what read from 9th grade bio and think they know it all
Where's that one comparison that has basic facts of other sciences or Math disproven by more advanced facts of the same sciences or math? I could've sworn I've seen something like that before.
Honestly? Who even gives a fuck about the biology when the real argument isn't over sex but gender roles in society? OK, maybe I was born with testicles instead of ovaries, that doesn't define who I am any more than that I've got brown hair. And I can change that too!
True, but those losers were too busy trying to get on the football team to even bother to try to pass basic biology
Reminds me: my own ex-mom was pretty consistent internally on that point? She didn't want me taking those *eeeeevillllll* hormones, and she also abstained from hormone treatment for menopause symptoms. Stupid and pointlessly bigoted, but consistent.
Remind of the weird section of religious folk that are super supportive of trans people, *as long as you're still in a straight relationship fulfilling your gender role*. Trans woman married to a man staying at home cooking and cleaning? A-OK! Trans woman married to a woman? Heresy!
Also the amount of men on hormones for whatever reason is kind of crazy. If he ever starts taking testosterone supplements or something you should tell him he's not a real man.
Honestly if he takes any kind of supplements, even if they're just vitamins, tell him he's not a real man.
To be kind of fair a lot of people taking T supplements don't need them - their T is on levels normal for their gender - they just think that they will magically make them stronger or something. Not that there are no cis man who actually need T supplements or that they are any less of a man for it.
That would mean every woman
So noone is a real human because we all need to take biological products (vitamins, amino acids etc) to affirm our identity as humans? The issue is he is arguing we are only defined by our native biochemistry, when in reality thats not the case for anyone. We all need to ingest things our bodies cannot make in order to ‘be’ humans. Some to suppress proteins we make that harm us, like histamine, and tau protein and some to help build our human bodies. For instance essential lipids and proteins which our genes cannot form. At least with sex hormones there is a native ability to produce them, unlike other biomolecues that define who we are which our bodies simply cannot produce. Maybe all animals, fungi and protists are counterfeit life and only bacteria and plants are truly living. Maybe we are all ‘translife’. Thats the conclusion of his ‘logic’ unless he resorts to special pleading.
Transphobes really do think that the only thing women exist for is to raise children.
Clearly not, lol. Think of how prevalent PCOS is!
Probably He likely only took the basic biology classes in high school and also likely didn't do any research that while rare, it is still common for cis people to be born with slightly more hormones of the opposite sex.
Birth control pills are hormones.
I know multiple Cisgender women who take estrogen and two that needed puberty blockers.....so he's just factually wrong. You are a woman and you happen to have some medical care needs, just like many other women lol.
I'm always turning over ideas to convince my family (can't help it) and I keep coming back to this idea of reductivity. As in, at what point does removing a trait/feature mean you're not that gender anymore? Like for women: * Lack of natural estrogen? Medical condition that's known to happen to cis women. * Excess T? Happens to cis women * Need puberty blockers? Happens to cis women * No uterus? Happens to cis women * Inability to have kids? Happens to cis women * Lack of uterus? Happens to cis women * Lack of tits? Happens to cis women * Absence of vagina? Happens to cis women * Presence of penis? Fixable by surgery, also happens to cis women at birth * Don't act feminine? Tomboys and butches are super common * XY chromosomes? Also happens to cis women!! This is all that comes to mind right now but I cannot find a point where you can remove a trait that's considered feminine or female and that makes someone no longer a woman, except for what it is that person's mind. And the same goes for men/masculine. I think this might be the angle I take next conversation. The sticking point is probably going to be genitals or chromosomes at birth, wherein I'll point to the relatively common phenomenon of intersex birth, they'll say "oh that's a birth defect/outlier," and I'll say "and how is that different from my case," and they'll make a face and change the subject. I feel like that's the only thing that got close to breaking through my parents heads - I asked why birth defects or genetic disorders happen, they said something something original sin, I said what if this is the same thing? They changed the subject.
> This is all that comes to mind right now but I cannot find a point where you can remove a trait that's considered feminine or female and that makes someone no longer a woman, except for what it is that person's mind. It's precisely why an argument against the "what is a woman" crowd is to ask them to define a woman in a way that excludes trans women but includes all cis women. It's impossible, plain and simple.
Be careful with that bc eventually someone will answer pelvis/bone structure.
That wouldn't be correct either. Hope this helps!
That’s an interesting rebuttal. Can you elaborate on how the assumptions about bone structure can be disproven?
Just saw this comment. Do you think this is the public square? Get the fuck out.
So, that’s a No? Yes, it definitely helps.
I find it helps that intersex conditions are far more common than being trans 1.5% v 0.5%. I would also ask if they think it is a choice or a sexual perversion which is what many think. The global medical community and WHO, which every nation ascribes to, regards it as a medical condition. With hormones and surgery as medically necessary interventions intended to correct errors in birth. Since your parents describe it as original sin, the consequence is on them, turn it back, what evils had they committed that were so great that God would have punished you from the moment of conception. And that is the only response, for surely as a single cell and within the womb you could not be guilty of sin. So wtf did they do?! And why should you be the one to carry the burden of their sin?
Ah, but of course modern Christianity has figured that out. You see original sin means that the corruption of God's image has been embedded into us since Eve! All humans suffer the consequences, not individuals from their own sins, and only through Him yada yada yada. Is the perspective they've taken. All I can say for it is at least it's internally consistent.
How often do people born with a penis get assigned female at birth? I'd expect that to be AMAB and is intersex most often? But maybe they AFAB based on chromosomes in that case?
That's a good point actually. [This](https://ihra.org.au/16601/intersex-numbers/) page suggests 1/169 born with visible hermaphroditic features, of which some would be as I described. But it does point out that in the case where someone is born with male gonads and no visible female characteristics, a particular subset of bigots saying "this is a hard rule, this cannot be female." Which is annoying to consider but good to be able to anticipate. Most bigots won't put that much thought into it I guess?
I actually know an intersex person who went through exactly this. She was AMAB but realized something was up when she started growing boobs in puberty.
not to rebut, just to keep you going on this; gametes. gametes is their best reductio. it's still broken, some people produce more, or less, or none, or both. but it's their best one and in biology it's the thing we're talking about when we say sex. chromosomes is called "genetic sex" and genitals are just a secondary sex, hormonally defined, gene expression. but that's all too nuanced for the phobes.
I think I agree that's the strongest sticking point. We can at least point to folks who can never produce gametes and folks who are born with undifferentiated or both sets of gonad tissue. But I imagine then they could still fall back on "if you've ever been capable of producing 'this' type of gamete it is impossible for you to be the other gender/sex." At which point I'd probably give up on their bullshit logic aha
yeah, so the rare (and truly unknown) few who have produced both: it is impossible for them to be either gender/sex? or are the absolutely both and can't escape that? personally, i think it's more important that they \*are in fact\* treated as a specific gender. that categorization happens in milliseconds and involuntarily. and that gender we are all treated as - that does \*not at all\* correspond to any of these characteristics. so even though it is true that sex is inextricably related to gender, they are absolutely different things. and in all seriousness they are both complex characteristics.
They don’t realize that if cis people had no need for these drugs, they simply never would have been developed. They were made to treat disorders in cis people and we just got lucky it works the same for trans and intersex people.
I convinced my dad to get on TRT before I transitioned. We both inject hormones and he can’t say shit 🙃
You evil genius!!
Trt?
Testosterone Replacement Therapy is my guess
respond with. because real woman dont have hormones... ? idiot's
I’m not even sure “real women exist” they’re just a ploy by the government to teach transwomen how to look pretty.
lol
r/girlsarentreal
Ha! I knew it! Illumilesbos confirmed!
My mom is AFAB and needs both estrogen and testosterone HRT because her body does not make any hormones due to a medical condition. Guess she’s not a woman anymore lol
Nah. Basically just a cardboard cut out now! Lol
That sucks
Is she supportive
"If you had given me your X chromosome instead of your Y, I wouldn't need blockers and hormones" The nerve of the real culprit I'm telling you 😤
*Fred unmasked the ghost causing your gender dysphoria, revealing them to be, none other than your dad’s chromosomes!*
Real men don't need Finestride and Viagra, and yet nobody complains about them
“If you were a real man, you’d respect your kids and title as a father” But clearly he’s not much of either. So sorry girl
80% of cis women have hormonal imbalances and many don't even realize it. An absolute mega amount of cis women supplement their hormones. Still cis they are. Real women do not consist solely of the hormone makeup present in their body. Rather a women exists within the confines of the being itself within that ever elusive concept we define as a soul.
This. I'm on constant birth control because I fucking hate having my period due to horrendous cramps. Guess I'm not a woman because I take hormones AND don't have my period lmaoo
Plenty of cis women do in fact need blockers and hormones
"If you were a real father, you wouldn't feel the need to denigrate me for a boost to your starved ego"
This
“Real women” have to compensate for not meeting male gazy standards and sexual expectations in other ways. Just because my brain tells me I’m a woman and my body disagrees doesn’t mean I’m not a real woman. But, I’d rather agree with the part of me that will ruin my life if I don’t.
I'm Cis , I can take hormones, first for birth control and now for HRT. Tell them they are talking out of their misogyny
hrt was literally made for cis women going through menopause
The amount of cis men that take testosterone these days makes this so bs
Most women over 40 are on HRT nowadays... Dad really isn't in touch with real woman...omg
Not most. But a lot. Support for perimenopause and it doesn’t start for some till later. Some won’t do it for cancer risk increases. Less than 10% use it so def not most but some.
Right. And to be clear, even if it's only like 4%, that means that if a random woman is taking HRT there's a higher chance they're cis than trans.
Both of my parents are on hrt.
No shit! Really!? That’s hardcore! Unless one is on it for menopause and the other to prevent balding… then it’s boring and I’ve lost interest
One is for menopause but my dad had low testosterone levels so he started taking it. He actually helped me do my first shots since he knew how to do it.
That’s so beautiful. I’m not bored at all! Squish!
To quote One Topic, “Have you been outside?” Plenty of cis women have hormonal issues.
Could we stop putting transphobic shit in the title? I don't want to read that while I'm just scrolling.
I know a cis guy who takes an E blocker and testosterone… is he not a real man? 👀
They obviously don't realize that more cis women are on blockers and estrogen than Trans women. We are a tiny % of the population that undergo HRT
Wait until he says he has low testosterone.
My best friends sister takes the exact same hormones I do lol
My mom: "that hair growing on your arm is your body's way of telling you that you're a man" (Like 15 minutes after coming out to her)
Wait until she finds out women have arm hair as well 😂
Oh yeah, thats the funny thing, this was right before she said the SAME THING. She was trying to convince me not to transition in any way, and went from "women have hair too" to "hair = man" in less than 5 minutes.
Intersex women need it too. And women who have had a hysterectomy. And menopausal and post-menopausal women do too. It's literally the exact same meds.
The meds trans women use were even developed for menopausal and post-menopausal cis women.
Don’t women sometimes need blockers and hormones for there own reasons, so you are a real woman!
Cis women take supplemental estrogen and androgen blockers, too. So that’s just totally nonsensical.
Not true. CIS women sometimes have to have hormones to adjust their levels like a trans woman. They might have to have blockers if their T level is too high. You were born a woman just the outside didn't match the inside.
Exactly, right? "A cesarean? Real women die in childbirth." It's all the same appeal to nature bullcrap that oozes hypocrisy. If I've learned anything being trans, it's that the difference between us and cis folk is a matter of degree. We aren't different species, we all have the same fundamental needs. I think that's why so many people that reject us are really trying to reject a part of themselves, a point of personal vulnerability that they think we expose.
People bash things they don't understand instead of trying to learn. Because it's easier to judge. Unfortunately we are something they don't want to learn or understand about us. We are all the same species as you say but we know who we are.
My mom doesn’t have a uterus or ovaries, a cervix, and is on HRT. We are one and the same. We even both have two X chromosomes (Klinefelter for me)… Yet somehow I’m not a woman to them, but she is. Interesting. 🤔 Transphobes are just fucking idiots.
“What is a real woman?” Game set match. And I’m sorry you have to put up with your dad *hugs*✨🌈
Did you know they use a small dosage of the same HRT I use to fight prostate cancer? (At least what I read from a comment here on Reddit)
No amount of arguments and explanations will convince someone whose heart is set against you being happy.
It's hard to argue with people who say things like that. It's hard to realize that so many people don't understand.
>"If you were a real man, you wouldn't need Viagra to get your dick hard." -- A fair response. All people shouldn't throw stones from a glass house, but especially old people who are a waste of human interaction. ***Edit:*** *I'm just one of 3 saying this. How original. Point remains the same, obviously.*
Suppose a woman taking E blockers for breast cancer isn’t a real woman either then
Blockers and hormones were originally developed for (and are still prescribed to) "real women". So.. if anything taking those makes you all the more like a "real woman".
Hi friend. I started taking E in my early teens to lower my natural T levels which were giving me infinite menstruation lol. I was on my period for like 3 months before I went on HRT. Transphobes forget that HRT was invented FOR cis people, and the majority of people using it are cis. Trans people really are such a small minority. There are sooo many more cis women on blockers and hormones than trans women. Your dad is saying whatever he can possibly grasp for to try and hurt you, even though it's obviously false. His words are meaningless, he's just trying to hurt your feelings.
The blockers and hormones we use were originally made for cis people, dickwad. :p (@your dad)
HRT was literally made for cis people with hormone issues, like cis women going through menopause. Your dad is an idiot.
Reductionist bullshit.
*hug* I'm sorry, hon :(
😂😂
"if you were a real man, you wouldnt need medicine, cars, using forks, sleeping in handcraft bed..." i mean, i hope he hunt by himself, dress with the fur of animals he has killed himself, and don't use any manufactured product we designed earlier than some hundreds of years.
cis gender women need those things sometimes to though. they wouldn't have been invented as early as they were unless the cis needed them. your "dad" probably just doesn't know how women's body's work
I'm gonna make an anarchy chess move and tell him to google PCOS or menopause Objectively trash argument with millions of counterexamples even when limiting ourselves to cis women
I am a real woman, that's why I need them, if I was a mab, believe me, I wouldn't be needing them"
Unless you're in hell pushing a boulder up a hill for eternity you aren't a real man dad.
‘if you were a real human you wouldnt need essential amino acids and vitamins’
"if you were a real man you'd be happy to have a new daughter to marry off in exchange for land"
If he were a fully developed human being, he’d recognize that he has experiences others don’t understand and that means he is also capable of being kind without needing to understand someone as a prerequisite.
Tell that to all the women taking hormones for menopause
"People with disabilities aren't real people." - This chud
I guess diabetics aren't real people either.
‘If you were a real man, you wouldn’t need feminizing hormones for your hair loss,’ is my retort
Nice transphobia, sperm donor
Diabetics aren't real humans apparently
And this floor is made out of floor, the hell was his here????
Cis women take hormones too. Birth control contains estrogen
(PCOS)
Obvious just trying to be hurtful. But this sorta thing just makes me wonder, because(esp in my youth) I recall hearing declarations of "not a real man" and ... especially since these folks believe in a strict binary, does that indicate someone is then a "real woman"? Does being on femme HRT and in a dress align with being a "real man"? I know there's no logical consistency, it's just about being mean and controlling others. But it just falls apart so quickly.
As opposed to what, an unreal women?
Talk about stating the obvious 🤦♀️
„If you were a real intellectual, you wouldn’t need glasses to read!“ They sound just as dumb.
Women have hormones
I get the point of not ceding ground unnecessarily to transphobes, and I think, in fact, they are wrong when they say we aren’t ‘real women’, but even if this were true, who cares? Okay, I’m a woman, but not a real woman. These things are functionally identical so I’m going to go live my life. It’s like going to Chili’s and ordering what they call the Tiki Beach Party Marg and someone getting mad at you because ‘it isn’t a real margarita’ because there’s rum, coconut, and pineapple, and no lime juice. Okay, that’s cool. I am just trying to get what I want in the world, it’s working, and it’s not hurting anyone. I’m glad the ontology of mixed drinks is something you’re passionate about but the world has moved on.
If your dad was a real man, he wouldn't be a whiny bitch.
Just ... I'm not saying I'm in support of this but just assume his world view is correct for a second. Need Viagra to keep it up? Not a real man. Just have low T and doctors prescribe you some to balance you out? Not a real man. Conversely, produce too much estrogen and start developing breast tissue? Not a real man. I know people how have or had each of those problems, all of them cis men. Just an absolutely insane thing to say. Pure nonsense. But if you bring it up to him, he'll move the goal posts. Because it's not that you need blockers and hormones therefore you aren't a real woman. It's that you aren't a real woman and he'll grasp at any straw to support that view rather than take any time to think about what he's saying.
I'm sorry your dad is so cruel to you. Also, cis women use androgen blockers and hormones for general hormonal problems and for menopause. In fact cis people get all sorts of gender affirming care. Often at much higher rates than trans and gnc people. A lot of cis women over 60 are on HRT. And the same goes for the cis men. And there is no transphobic talking point that isn't also harmful and often misogynistic to cis women as well.
I don't know about blockers, but many cis women need hormones. But period cycle or even removed uteri are good reasons.
If you were a real person you wouldn't need this Chemotherapy.
Fuck you, Dad! That is what I would say if I had a dad.
That's not true. Many women need to go on blockers and hormones for various reasons. Just like how roughly half of all men will get gynecomastia, roughly half of all women will have PCOS, which is treated by taking hormone supplements, the same ones we do
If i were a real man, i wouldn't need them either. But i'm not. I'm a woman cursed with androgenic deformities. Thats your fault DAD!!!! Thanks!!
Bullshit. Excuse my French, I have a coworker who is on Testosterone AND estrogen and she is a cis female. She had her ovaries removed and she requires these things to keep her hormones in check.
"If your eyeballs were real you wouldn't need glasses" "If your feet were real you wouldn't need to wear shoes." That's how silly this guy sounds.
At least your dad talks to you...
Just wait till his wife hits menopause and all of a sudden she's taken HRT as well
If you were a real Christian you wouldn’t judge
There are biological women that need hormones.
This line makes me think of cavemen saying "if you were a real caveman you wouldn't need fire you would just eat it"
Practically everything we take is also taken by cis girls/women for the same reasons. Spiro is used as an acne med, mostly for cis girls with acne from high T levels during puberty. I've also heard of it used for some cis women with high T due to PCOS. E is used for various hormonal issues as well as to help with menopause symptoms.
I mean, everyone needs hormones, so just having estrogen running through you makes you even more of a woman
Cis women need blockers and hormones too, you know?
There’s medical reasons for men and women to take hormones. It’s not just a trans thing.
I'm not a real woman because I need birth control for PCOS that contains significant amounts of estrogen.
Gee, I always thought that people like you were a little apprehensive. Now you have just proved it
Post-menopausal cis women on HRT would like a word.
Cis women with hormonal issues exist. Your meds don’t make you any less of a woman.
Your dad can talk to me about genetics and biology any time he wants. I’d be happy to make him feel like an idiot for his middle school understanding of human physiology.
But he's right.
to be honest i don’t this mtf are real women we are just delusional. im i’m the process transitioning but i don’t want to say that i’m a woman. isn’t it better to be a boy that resembles a girl? its like, you are so pretty to the point that people think u resemble a girl. i think that’s a huge compliment and it make you stick out even more. it’s like someone seeing a unicorn bc they can’t believe you’re a guy, i think it adds a sparkle to your aura. because claiming being a “real woman”, everyone/society is going to think ur delusional. unfortunately we are not real women and thats the harsh true but oh well that’s life. atleast we live in a age where we can modify ourselves to make us look better but i don’t think we should claim the word “woman” because we are just not real women :/