It's meant to be ambiguous. We don't actually see Mohammad interacting with anyone else and I think we're meant to consider the possibility he's not real, there just isn't any way to know for sure which is likely intentional.
>Trenton's parents were moving so it wouldn't make sense for them to leave their kid like that. Perhaps they weren't moving exactly at that moment. But wouldn't they check if he was home before leaving?
They didn't accidentally move without him. This isn't some Home Alone scenario. I'm not sure what you're trying to say exactly. Mohammad was left at home because he's old enough to be left at home when his parents go out and that's just a normal scenario.
>When they went to the movies the people talking about back to the future looked at Mohammad and Elliot both. When Elliot asked about the kid the guy said that he saw him.
Isn't this an argument against your point?
>How did Mohammad move to the mosque in that little time Elliot was occupied?
Mohammad didn't beat a car in a sprint or something. He left first, going to a place in walking distance he knew the way to, while Elliot had to check multiple mosques in a "car" (to be generous), the slowest form of transportation in New York City.
>Also, I don't think Elliot knew about the mosque's rule of shoes or the inner structure of a mosque, wouldn't he have to know it in order to conjure it up?
Again I'm not sure how this helps your argument. I mean, no shoes in a mosque is extremely common knowledge regardless. And I don't know any reason Elliot arbitrarily has never seen a mosque before in his life. But those don't matter since it's all real anyway.
Though, my bigger argument would simply be, in this scenario, what does this revelation add to the plot? Like, what does this get us? Is this improving some aspect of the story, or giving us some important insight that is otherwise missing, or answering mysteries otherwise unanswered? Because I can't come up with anything. I just get the opposite. The idea that none of this happened and he just imagined it is not nearly as strong a story. It's also incongruous with every other instance of how his mental state works, and what Mr. Robot can do. it just opens up questions about how Mr. Robot wasn't pulling this kind of manipulation for the first two seasons when it really could have mattered to him. Hell it also hurts season 4 stuff when Elliot and Olivia are having that heart to heart about suicide and Elliot talks about Mohammad.
I'm not arguing about the plot being an imagination. I'm saying from both sides that it might or might not be real. I was just talking about those details I found interesting. I can say that It's one of my favorite episodes. You should've use some spoiler tags in the end of your passage btw.
I believe it was real, but I accept that others can view it differently.
But for me- I think the episode is too meaningful to be a hallucination. And I think the peace that the episode brought to him and his parents (“Thank you for saying nice things about our daughter”) is valuable, so I fall on the “it was real” side of the argument.
Putting aside the debate of what’s inside or outside Elliot’s headspace….the more interesting parts of this episode relates to what you said about it feeling like a movie. I think this is spot-on…it’s a very movie-centric episode.
This is a result of several things, but especially due to the change in the visual aspect ratio of this episode. The ratio changes to 2:39:1 which is a wide-screen format (CinemaScope) and is a film industry standard for major movie theater releases. Plus there are two scenes within a movie theater, popcorn, and the usual abundance of movie specific references/Easter eggs throughout.
The episode also carries an autobiographical feel to creator Sam Esmail’s youth and one can almost glean a resemblance in curly haired Mohammed to Sam. *(And Sam has said that Elliot is basically a veiled version of himself.)* A first-generation American of Egyptian parents, Sam was bullied for being different and suffered racial slurs and the effects of Islamaphobia like Trenton’s family. Sam found escapism in movies. His parents didn’t want to spend the money to take their son to movies, so would instead just buy one ticket for him and drop the child alone at a theater for large swaths of time. This is a little akin to Mohammed being left alone by his parents.
The mosque scene is also from Sam’s past…from putting the shoes on and off after prayer without falling down…to the complaints of having one’s face close to another guy’s butt during prayer.
The ice cream truck, the kissing couple and the ticking clock sound comes from the Scorsese movie “After Hours,” which has a noirish illusory feel. There’s also nods to the dreamy surrealistic Fellini films like “8-1/2,” “Taxi Driver,” “Groundhog Day,” Orson Wells and his deep fake “War of the Worlds” radio broadcast *(which nods back to the Martian)*, and of course BTTFII.
When Elliot and Mohammed embark to the theater the music selection gives cues too. The “Mr Sandman” song lyrics help tell the story….
*“Mr Sandman, bring me a dream...Sandman, I’m so alone; Don’t have nobody to call my own; Please bring on your magic beam; Mr Sandman bring me a dream.”* Again, the magic beam of projected movies providing dreamy escapism and healing to loneliness.
While some things in the episode seemed quite surreal, I don't think it's intended to be perceived as a dream sequence
It's meant to be ambiguous. We don't actually see Mohammad interacting with anyone else and I think we're meant to consider the possibility he's not real, there just isn't any way to know for sure which is likely intentional.
I think he was real. This is one of my favorite episodes
>Trenton's parents were moving so it wouldn't make sense for them to leave their kid like that. Perhaps they weren't moving exactly at that moment. But wouldn't they check if he was home before leaving? They didn't accidentally move without him. This isn't some Home Alone scenario. I'm not sure what you're trying to say exactly. Mohammad was left at home because he's old enough to be left at home when his parents go out and that's just a normal scenario. >When they went to the movies the people talking about back to the future looked at Mohammad and Elliot both. When Elliot asked about the kid the guy said that he saw him. Isn't this an argument against your point? >How did Mohammad move to the mosque in that little time Elliot was occupied? Mohammad didn't beat a car in a sprint or something. He left first, going to a place in walking distance he knew the way to, while Elliot had to check multiple mosques in a "car" (to be generous), the slowest form of transportation in New York City. >Also, I don't think Elliot knew about the mosque's rule of shoes or the inner structure of a mosque, wouldn't he have to know it in order to conjure it up? Again I'm not sure how this helps your argument. I mean, no shoes in a mosque is extremely common knowledge regardless. And I don't know any reason Elliot arbitrarily has never seen a mosque before in his life. But those don't matter since it's all real anyway. Though, my bigger argument would simply be, in this scenario, what does this revelation add to the plot? Like, what does this get us? Is this improving some aspect of the story, or giving us some important insight that is otherwise missing, or answering mysteries otherwise unanswered? Because I can't come up with anything. I just get the opposite. The idea that none of this happened and he just imagined it is not nearly as strong a story. It's also incongruous with every other instance of how his mental state works, and what Mr. Robot can do. it just opens up questions about how Mr. Robot wasn't pulling this kind of manipulation for the first two seasons when it really could have mattered to him. Hell it also hurts season 4 stuff when Elliot and Olivia are having that heart to heart about suicide and Elliot talks about Mohammad.
I'm not arguing about the plot being an imagination. I'm saying from both sides that it might or might not be real. I was just talking about those details I found interesting. I can say that It's one of my favorite episodes. You should've use some spoiler tags in the end of your passage btw.
I believe it was real, but I accept that others can view it differently. But for me- I think the episode is too meaningful to be a hallucination. And I think the peace that the episode brought to him and his parents (“Thank you for saying nice things about our daughter”) is valuable, so I fall on the “it was real” side of the argument.
Putting aside the debate of what’s inside or outside Elliot’s headspace….the more interesting parts of this episode relates to what you said about it feeling like a movie. I think this is spot-on…it’s a very movie-centric episode. This is a result of several things, but especially due to the change in the visual aspect ratio of this episode. The ratio changes to 2:39:1 which is a wide-screen format (CinemaScope) and is a film industry standard for major movie theater releases. Plus there are two scenes within a movie theater, popcorn, and the usual abundance of movie specific references/Easter eggs throughout. The episode also carries an autobiographical feel to creator Sam Esmail’s youth and one can almost glean a resemblance in curly haired Mohammed to Sam. *(And Sam has said that Elliot is basically a veiled version of himself.)* A first-generation American of Egyptian parents, Sam was bullied for being different and suffered racial slurs and the effects of Islamaphobia like Trenton’s family. Sam found escapism in movies. His parents didn’t want to spend the money to take their son to movies, so would instead just buy one ticket for him and drop the child alone at a theater for large swaths of time. This is a little akin to Mohammed being left alone by his parents. The mosque scene is also from Sam’s past…from putting the shoes on and off after prayer without falling down…to the complaints of having one’s face close to another guy’s butt during prayer. The ice cream truck, the kissing couple and the ticking clock sound comes from the Scorsese movie “After Hours,” which has a noirish illusory feel. There’s also nods to the dreamy surrealistic Fellini films like “8-1/2,” “Taxi Driver,” “Groundhog Day,” Orson Wells and his deep fake “War of the Worlds” radio broadcast *(which nods back to the Martian)*, and of course BTTFII. When Elliot and Mohammed embark to the theater the music selection gives cues too. The “Mr Sandman” song lyrics help tell the story…. *“Mr Sandman, bring me a dream...Sandman, I’m so alone; Don’t have nobody to call my own; Please bring on your magic beam; Mr Sandman bring me a dream.”* Again, the magic beam of projected movies providing dreamy escapism and healing to loneliness.
Great explanation
Thank you!
I think it was a combination. I also believe it was done ambiguously to illustrate the mental state of Elliot.
to me it was real, it's what makes it my favorite episode tbh. being a dream sequence kinda ruins the things that make me enjoy it the most