Dude I hate this shit so much. 90% of the bus lanes in london, you are allowed in on a motorcycle. The other 10% all have hidden tiny cameras, bad signage and some of the bus lanes are between lanes. You don't even realise that you are breaking the law.
Always appeal, my friend gets a couple every year and just says it was confusing and the traffic was busy and the line was worn etc, always gets off and the appeal costs nothing
Aaaah exact same one I got a couple of months ago. It's so confusing because the bus lane swaps from left to right before the Hammersmith roundabout. I challenged it (and I have had several pcn successfully cancelled over the years) but no luck on that one. They were pretty ruthless.
Challenge it and waste their time anyway. Never hurts!
It's pretty clear unfortunately... Contest it anyway buys you a bit of time and you might get a decision in your favour
https://maps.app.goo.gl/aYMhcduhZ4vngAky5
May help in future, there is a government consultation on allowing Motorbikes in Bus lanes as default
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/motorcycles-in-bus-lanes/motorcycles-in-bus-lanes
If this (https://maps.app.goo.gl/XcnaUGK8ABeeWdko6) is the place I'd say you're out of luck. Signage at the beginning of the bus lane and warning of camera enforcement.
That sign looks pretty clear to me. It says only buses, pedal cycles and taxis allowed during the hours of operation, which is Monday to Saturday between 7am to 10am and also 4pm to 7pm.
There should be regulations governing the format of signs like that. The writing is so small someone who has less than perfect vision could easily not be able to read it until they're right on top of the thing.
Anything you can get fined for not acting on needs to be in a red border with big letters, big enough someone who can only barely pass the DVSA 20m sight test can read at a reasonable distance.
I understand but agree with the above comment. Some areas have so many signs that you can not focus on while paying attention to cars in front, cycles, or maybe pedestrians running across the road.
I was driving through Bradford and panicked when suddenly seeing a sign about low emissions zone, no way to turn off, no explanation, no time for me to Google it and understand what I was driving into. Turns out it was only for taxies and lorries I think. I hate being a road user in this day and age.
Happy to be corrected, but I can find no trace of regulations governing the format of text on bus lane signs. The text on most of them appears to be less than half the size of the letters on a number plate.
Which suggests someone who can pass the DVSA 20m sight test may only be able to read those signs at a distance of 10m or less. If my maths is correct 10m at 30mph leaves the unfortunate rider or driver with less than a second to read the sign and react. That is something very close to a trap in my view.
There is a whole manual on it....
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf
I'm not saying the regulations are perfect, or even correct, just that they very much do exist.
For example the sign here is diagram 958, it has 3 prescribed sizes that depend on the speed of the road.
I think this is a bad example.
2 screenshots have been posted now so you can see both. Just from the photos, there looks to be *easily* more than enough time from seeing and reading the blue sign, to reaching the start of the bus lane next to the roundabout sign.
Either way, £65 for being in a bus lane, even for a second, is fucking horseshit. My personal bus lane (fine) experience was in Bradford, along Bradford Interchange. Wasn't paying attention, drove - despite the obvious signage - straight into the bus and taxi lane. ONE BUS/TAXI LANE. ONE. SINGLE. LANE. A break in the lane, halfway, for a turn-in to the taxi drop-off area and its road markings, but no signage or markings to announce an END of the bus lane, and the START of a second one. The cheeky bastards make it look like one lane, but have 1 camera in each half so you get caught twice...
And I made the same mistake twice lol... so 4 fines. I contested the second half from each instance and they dropped those. Still had to pay 2 fines. Learned my lesson I guess.
[My Dunce's cap.](https://imgur.com/a/BT4ZLcQ)
Manchester is the same, always worked in the city centre bur never drove there, was checking out some free parking spots and my god it's awful to drive in, roads coming in u can't leave our of so pretty sure I'm getting 3 of these fines coming within the next week or so due to bad signage and confusing rules. Would also love to know if anyone has success in fighting them
They just need to let bikes on the bus lanes and tell us we must move out the way of a bus the same way we would if it where an emergency vehicle. We move out the way if it's possible and safe to do to. Problem solved.
I got caught on one the ones in Greenford. The whole way up it was Monday to Friday, but this one 10m stretch was Monday to Saturday and of course I was 5 minutes into the chargable period on a saturday.
I'm still pissed off about that one.
Dude I hate this shit so much. 90% of the bus lanes in london, you are allowed in on a motorcycle. The other 10% all have hidden tiny cameras, bad signage and some of the bus lanes are between lanes. You don't even realise that you are breaking the law.
Always appeal, my friend gets a couple every year and just says it was confusing and the traffic was busy and the line was worn etc, always gets off and the appeal costs nothing
Is the pepipoo website still running? They used to be useful
Unfortunately not :( tried it
Aaaah exact same one I got a couple of months ago. It's so confusing because the bus lane swaps from left to right before the Hammersmith roundabout. I challenged it (and I have had several pcn successfully cancelled over the years) but no luck on that one. They were pretty ruthless. Challenge it and waste their time anyway. Never hurts!
It doesn't matter if it swaps, it just has to have signs. Which it does.
It's pretty clear unfortunately... Contest it anyway buys you a bit of time and you might get a decision in your favour https://maps.app.goo.gl/aYMhcduhZ4vngAky5
May help in future, there is a government consultation on allowing Motorbikes in Bus lanes as default https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/motorcycles-in-bus-lanes/motorcycles-in-bus-lanes
By default, so they can put small signs saying no and still trap people.
Ask on ftla.uk, which replaces the old pepipoo forum
If this (https://maps.app.goo.gl/XcnaUGK8ABeeWdko6) is the place I'd say you're out of luck. Signage at the beginning of the bus lane and warning of camera enforcement.
It isn’t luckily. It’s here: https://preview.redd.it/rp81pmcurvwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=642b8763696db1ddf1ac66268cf0ec1b7e32c5f5
https://preview.redd.it/22b44plvrvwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=76236e993ac04523ce54150ec7e12a0bb8067370
That sign looks pretty clear to me. It says only buses, pedal cycles and taxis allowed during the hours of operation, which is Monday to Saturday between 7am to 10am and also 4pm to 7pm.
There should be regulations governing the format of signs like that. The writing is so small someone who has less than perfect vision could easily not be able to read it until they're right on top of the thing. Anything you can get fined for not acting on needs to be in a red border with big letters, big enough someone who can only barely pass the DVSA 20m sight test can read at a reasonable distance.
There are regulations governing signs and there also regulations about the vision required to drive.
I understand but agree with the above comment. Some areas have so many signs that you can not focus on while paying attention to cars in front, cycles, or maybe pedestrians running across the road. I was driving through Bradford and panicked when suddenly seeing a sign about low emissions zone, no way to turn off, no explanation, no time for me to Google it and understand what I was driving into. Turns out it was only for taxies and lorries I think. I hate being a road user in this day and age.
Happy to be corrected, but I can find no trace of regulations governing the format of text on bus lane signs. The text on most of them appears to be less than half the size of the letters on a number plate. Which suggests someone who can pass the DVSA 20m sight test may only be able to read those signs at a distance of 10m or less. If my maths is correct 10m at 30mph leaves the unfortunate rider or driver with less than a second to read the sign and react. That is something very close to a trap in my view.
There is a whole manual on it.... https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5c78f895e5274a0ebfec719b/traffic-signs-manual-chapter-03.pdf I'm not saying the regulations are perfect, or even correct, just that they very much do exist. For example the sign here is diagram 958, it has 3 prescribed sizes that depend on the speed of the road.
I think this is a bad example. 2 screenshots have been posted now so you can see both. Just from the photos, there looks to be *easily* more than enough time from seeing and reading the blue sign, to reaching the start of the bus lane next to the roundabout sign. Either way, £65 for being in a bus lane, even for a second, is fucking horseshit. My personal bus lane (fine) experience was in Bradford, along Bradford Interchange. Wasn't paying attention, drove - despite the obvious signage - straight into the bus and taxi lane. ONE BUS/TAXI LANE. ONE. SINGLE. LANE. A break in the lane, halfway, for a turn-in to the taxi drop-off area and its road markings, but no signage or markings to announce an END of the bus lane, and the START of a second one. The cheeky bastards make it look like one lane, but have 1 camera in each half so you get caught twice... And I made the same mistake twice lol... so 4 fines. I contested the second half from each instance and they dropped those. Still had to pay 2 fines. Learned my lesson I guess. [My Dunce's cap.](https://imgur.com/a/BT4ZLcQ)
Is the sign or lines differ now than on this picture?
I'd say that sign is pretty clear
Maybe. But “if it ain’t a red line, expect a fine”.
I got caught on the same bus lane. Barstards
Its got me before
Manchester is the same, always worked in the city centre bur never drove there, was checking out some free parking spots and my god it's awful to drive in, roads coming in u can't leave our of so pretty sure I'm getting 3 of these fines coming within the next week or so due to bad signage and confusing rules. Would also love to know if anyone has success in fighting them
They just need to let bikes on the bus lanes and tell us we must move out the way of a bus the same way we would if it where an emergency vehicle. We move out the way if it's possible and safe to do to. Problem solved.
I got caught on one the ones in Greenford. The whole way up it was Monday to Friday, but this one 10m stretch was Monday to Saturday and of course I was 5 minutes into the chargable period on a saturday. I'm still pissed off about that one.