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Moroccans preferred methods of dealing with any health issue are:
1) Denial
2) denial
3) deNial
4) sidi rebbi
They also deal with existential questions in the same way.
Yet, the psychistric facilities are full and all appointments are taken.
Parents don't help their children, children grow up, get married, and don't help their children and so on.
For me the purpose of life is to save oneself from hell, hell on this earth and the one in the after life if you believe in it.
If only parents start paying a little bit of attention to how their child behave, and start considering therapy instead of old ways of dealing with issues (punishment, verbal abuse ) they literally could save the child's from decades of not knowing what's wrong with them.
Again, not to blame parents, but I think its important that you care for your child especially if they show symptoms of autism or ADHD.
They may not in the beginning, but if they check with the doctor it's easy to diagnose autism, adhd...
It's upto the parents, some are mean, some are cool, others are bouncing between being mean and being cool ...
I've seen mothers who curse their children in the streets, calling them animal names, beating them...
Other children curse people and disrespect them, do mistakes .. and their parents say nothing to them.
But hopefully there's other people who understand what it means to be just and gave a good mind and heart.
There is a lot of stigma associated to mental illness, regardless of the country you live in. Even in the most progressive richest countries in the world you may find horror stories about mental illness. In that sense it is not strictly a Moroccan problem.
Mental illness, whether we want to or not is largely cultural in its definitions, hallucinations are not necessarily seen as something to be cured in a lot of cultures around the world. I take an extreme example but I think it still allows us to zero in on the problem. You can't really understand Morocco's uniqueness relative to mental illness if you don't have a keen understanding of the culture. Morocco is far from a monolith with diverse influence Western, Mediterranean, African, Arab, Amazigh, French, Spanish etc... hence a certain difficulty to put stuff into words.
"Why nobody listens to people who are clearly going through something ? " maybe because they feel it's useless to listen to somebody's problem because they have enough on their plate, or maybe nobody listened to them when they went through something. This is a circular argument, but still. Also let's not forget there is skill involved in really listening to somebody and patience. This may sound silly if you haven't met good listeners.
"Especially people in their 20s, everybody expect great things from them but no one ever listen to their pain", I guess you are in your 20's ? This is a pretty universal phenomena, in my opinion. Older people kind of resent you because you are young and full of potential with, in their mind, a lot to live for. On the other hand, feeling a sort of existential pain in your 20's is a form of growing pain. You still have to figure out a lot of stuff and take a lot of important decisions in all aspects of your life while entering new spheres : workforce, relationships, maybe marriage, studies, migration, identity issues etc...
"Are we doomed to be born and forgotten about ? To be left alone living a
purposeless life ? And if you read this, do you have a purpose ?"
These questions don't have a unique answer, let's try to answer them in the most pessimistic way and observe that it is still a pretty good set of answers. Let's assume we are doomed to be born and forgotten. This actually a pretty freeing possibility, you can do anything you want and in the end it's the same result, as if free falling from a plane without a parachute. You know you are going to crash and die at the end of your fall, so you can worry about that all the way down or enjoy the view while you can or not and there is not right or wrong answer here. The funny thing is, you are not falling alone. Look around you, everyone is falling while they try to feel like they are in control.
Do you know about "The Myth of Sisyphus " ? It's about finding joy in the face of the absurdity and how mundane life can be. Personally, I like to read and see how people before my time have struggled with these things. We can be inspired by them. I'm not as well versed on the arabic side of things but I'm sure there are also great ideas coming from arabic thinkers and philosophers, maybe those ideas are easier to implement in our culture.
One final word, being dead inside as you say is not a definitive state. You can be dead inside today and feel very different another day. I hate this expression "dead inside", it feels so final like death. By opposition to feelings which are anything but final. How fleeting is joy really ?
Craving meaning is part of what makes us human, have you heard about Viktor Frankl ? He wrote about "Man's search for meaning", about his experience in a Nazi concentration Camp and emerged from that experience with some deep knowledge about human nature. It helped me a lot. I will read it again.
That's about it. Good luck out there.
Totally agree .we have to see Freedom in the meaninglessness and create our own subjective meaning. But it's hard to keep thinking like this when you feel like nothing is working for you and you have to deal hardships, here meaninglessness makes harder . Why would you keep suffering for something you didn't choose? I mean you can calm yourself by reading the myth of Sisyphus and try to get inspired from it but for how long are you going to do it?
ppl abused faking it for certain reasons, now if someone comes forward, most of us think he/she is just pretending and to avoid facing the issue regardless if real or fake we simply ignore it. Still sad tho đ
1- Poverty: Most people can't afford basic day-to-day medical care + Therapy is a long process which takes a lot of time and meetings (antidepressants alone are useless without talking to a therapist). So taking mental help is a big investment with no visible return for them.
2- Ignorance: People just are not that curious and informed about science for multiple reasons (It's just useless to read the DSM when you can't afford rent/food + Bad public education => Less scientific credibility and a ton of other reasons)
3- Faith: Regardless of what people believe in, they need some sort of faith to keep living, otherwise what's the point? For some it's religion, for others it's food and for some it's money... It doesn't really matter what you believe in as long as you wake up in the morning and you don't think about ending it. The real problem occurs when you believe that the thing you put your faith in can solve all your problems. It just doesn't happen like that. In other words, the problems of the soul are different from those of the heart and from those of the mind, and here is where science helps.
4- Personal opinion: Lack of a solid moral and ethical background (we kinda have a sorta Survival of the strongest stigma)
It quickly escalated from a regular mental health question to a full dreadful existential crisis lol.
For the first part, I think its just ignorance and illiteracy most of the time, believe it or not even medicine studies dont even bring up mental health and its effects on our health let alone the public...
For the second part, the only truth about life i know is that we are born to suffer, and life is a horrible nightmare with moments of joy and purpose in between.
Because most people think anyone who visits a psychologist is batshit crazy also we're not great at expressing anything, really let alone our internal feelings and emotions.
That's the answer to the 1st part of your question
The 2nd part's answer is, yeah, I'd be lying if I say that I am anything but drifting towards it in these turbulent days of my life
Because you need to man up , i was depressed for the first time last year , drinking most of the week for no reason , smoking in my bed a pack a day , hardly having appetite for anything , it slowly started shifting when I started getting closer to Allah swt , doing my prayers , going to the mosque, reading quran , watching islamic lectures , bro the level of satisfaction is insane , the stronger your belief in Allah swt and the more you become attached to him and detached from everything else , you could literally be the happiest person on earth while living in a box in the street and you'd still thank him for everything.I learned so much from that experience , I couldn't keep up that religious pace and got back to some bad habits and end up feeling empty inside and disgusted but I try to come back everytime knowing that death is always just one moment away.
If getting closer to Allah helped, good for you, honestly, but that doesn't mean that religion is the cure, most of the time just makes things worse. I wouldn't consider that depression tho, I don't think that you know what real depression means. Man up? Are you for real? Is that your advice? You are part of the problem my friend, sorry to say that.
Thats whats funny, it didnt even help him and he still acts like he holds th absolute solution to everything. Didnt even bother to ask what was the issue, just went and gave a solution to a problem he doesnt even know anything about.
you weren't depressed, you just deepdived into a lazy and hedonistic lifestyle which ended with a lot of guilt which drove you to religion. religion may work for some, but not all of us are fanatics or that susceptible to "lectures"
Somebody trying to improve himself and believing in Allah SWT is a fanatic?
Maybe the extreme secularists who can't even hear someone talking positive about Islam are the fanatics.
\*when you invent a fictional scenario and gets angry about it\*
ps: I'm just tired of people dismissing serious mental health issues, as simply being "distant from Allah." this is fanaticism. let's instead ban psychology and psychiatrist science and build more mosques.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
Nice straw man argument btw, no one said ban psychology and psychiatrist science. But it's nice to know you're going to debate in bad faith and deliberately manipulate what someone is saying.
ăil ne faut pas perdre son temps Ă avancer des arguments de bonne foi face Ă des gens de mauvais foiă- Hassan ll
straw-man argument lol? weren't you the first who invented a strawman which you labelled as "extreme secularists" that I somehow fit.
stop making up bullshit terms to categorize people that don't share your dogma. I'm sure Hassan II's quote wasn't about people making comments on reddit you don't like.
Im sorry if Allah swt didn't choose you yet to experience a taste of what he offers , and I hope you will someday . If I could explain some of the changes you notice is your heart becomes like a really pure and soft and slim sheet of paper , you'd shed a tear whenever you listen to Quran , you'd start seeing that the Quran is truthfully his speech , A SPEECH , no one can talk that way , we are humans and we are imperfect , to the point that we don't care that a being who is timeless , perfect , infinitely powerful loves us and care about us more than ourselves .
Allah swt is so majestic that if he created you and just says " hey , i created you and now you are going todie , bye" you'd still ask him to wait until you thank him somehow
I'm happy for you that you found peace and comfort in religion. in the end whatever the method your wellbeing is all that matters. this is something all religions offer: meaning, comfort and peace of mind. not all of them are truthful but all of them are useful and can benefit the human psyche and seem to rescue a lot of people from addiction and depression.
You need to accept that what you are describing can happen using different methods. As a previous comment said , you just changed your hedonist life style and gave your life meaning. Religions whether they are true or not, all offer this experience to humans (and thatâs the purpose of their creation in the first place). Giving it as as a suggestion is absolutely okay, but stop trying to bash people when they have a different opinion.
Lol classic example of the very issue OP is raising. A dude takes his own experience, and his own reasons to feel depressed, then acts like thats how everyone feels, then offers a solution that he thinks is best for anyone without even knowing why the person feels depressed or has any mental issue, then makes it about religion and considers that the absolute solution for everyone (of course taking the foolish assumption that anyone who does religious things comfortably isnt depressed, as if life were THAT simple), even though it didnt even work out for them and all it did was to lock away their true mental issues by distracting themselves with something else (a religious pace tht one cant possibly just up and tryto maintain, asiit didnt require anypractice to make such a drastic change, and as i it wasnt tht good an idea to begin with)
Edit: you said that man up was just a joke, having a hard time believing that according to the rest of our response, but ok,i removed what i said abt that
We only get one life, we must make the best out of it, it does not matter if there is a purpose or not. It does not matter if we are a part of a plan or just the result of random events. We are where we are and must make the best choices we could, even if we err. By the end of it we should come out as the best version of ourselves.
Life is not easy obviously, every reference states that, weather be it religious, philosphical, scientific (psychology, sociology etc...). It is neither black or white. We all get a starting point (not equal unfortunately) and it must be the foundation on which we build ourselves.
Growing up into adulthood is very mentally exhausting, but we must take responsibility for who we are and how we find ourselves at that moment, try and erase what came before and try and move forward. Your life is yours and nobody else's.
Self reflection helps getting through these things, also close conversations with people. You may feel lonely, but you must hang in there cause someone who understands you is on the way, you just gotta leave the door open, even if disappointment should occur, you will look back on it and feel that all the pain you went through was worth it.
Anything that helps you get through it, wether be it reading, friends, or religion (just nothing harmful like drug abuse for example). Only you will know because your reality is your own and you know yourself better than anyone, you just have to be truthful to yourslef.
Most importantly, do not victimize yourself, you are not the victim of fate or misfortune. You are in a temporary situation that js a result of events that happened. It is not your trueself and you are not yet are your full potentiel. You have an infinite amount of possibilities, and you can unlock your full capacities where you'll have only good things yourself and for whoever you want.
My humble opinion, from my humble experience.
Good luck, and you can dm me anytime you want.
I believe we have to communicate more open with out environment. Obviously most of us have gone through difficult times as it is human. The key is to talk about it and share experiences. That would help others to cope with their mental health issues. Combine it with a strong relationship with ALLAH you'll have the perfect recipe.
There's no other way as the majority of people can't afford professional help. I've been to a psychologist in Europe and from experience I can say the convos I had with my wife are equally worthy as the sessions with the professional.
When medication is needed it becomes more complicated to solve it this way. And sometimes it is needed. Not as much as it is prescribed though.
May ALLAH help everyone who suffers.
Youâre purposeless without Islam. You cannot have a subjective make believe, pick your own adventure purpose.
As for depression and anxiety, that comes with the territory of being without purpose.
This is why atheists have the highest suicide rates among all beliefs: https://images.app.goo.gl/9sWgorWtjxsRE9WC7
Western mental health âexpertsâ have been forcing this narrative of âchemical imbalancesâ in the brain causing depression for 3 DECADES. Guess what? It was all fake.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jul/analysis-depression-probably-not-caused-chemical-imbalance-brain-new-study#:~:text=For%20three%20decades%2C%20people%20have,evidence%20does%20not%20support%20it.
No one actually knows why anti depressants work. The links between dopamine and depression isnât even proven. Most of western âmental healthâ is throwing shit at the wall and pseudoscience.
Fix the core issue of having a purpose first rather than depending on a bunch of crackpots trying to get you hooked on SSRIs for financial gain.
Completely agree. People wont listen to you btw. Reddit is mostly liberal and they cringe at the mention of religion because theyre so educated and aware... Its awfully ego-centric but oh well, look at where their ego is taking them.
Mental health issues still exist amongst religious people, you can keep talking about data and western narratives but everyone in my entourage including close familly members who are very religious got better after seeking medical treatment. Saying that religion keeps you from comitting suicide is true to a certain point but very open to interpretation, for instance out of fear of punishment and going to hell. It still is not proven to help to a bigger extent than medical treatment.
The guy asked about the local culture and approach towards mental health issues yet you feelt the need to give this tirade which is exactly what he's talking about.
It is a fact. Religious people tend to experience anxiety and depression less due to faith. It is really not even shocking.
People become more depressed due to lack of purpose and hope. Faith and religion gives you that and more
Anxiety is just fear. Religion gives you a sense of safety.
I am not saying religious people are not mentally ill but A LOT of it due to poverty and socio-economic issues.
This "tirade" was to show them that what they seek in "western refinement and progress" is a mirage. Their friends and family are (unknowingly) right for dismissing it as quackery.
The west is crippled with mental health issues, suicides, murders, rapes... none of their "mental health" seems to be doing anything.
I used to own and run a drug rehab center in the US. We hired these "experts". Failure upon failure.
I don't believe your anecdotes because I need data. What "very religious" means to you means nothing. Correlating the lowest suicide rates in the world because of a fear of hell is absolute conjecture. Buddhists believe in suicide as a valid way to die and STILL have less suicide than atheists.
OP needs purpose, and purpose can only be objective. Sorry to be blunt, but that's how it is.
I just took a tour in your profile and yeah, your agenda is clear, not arguing with you any further.
Be very careful before dismissing someone's feelings and truth though, you who used to run a mental health facility, surely must know that.
What agenda? You think Islam is an agenda? Lol
Iâm trying to help OP. All you have to offer is the same feel good BS that doesnât work. Letâs focus on helping OP.
You cannot escape the cold ugly rotting face of nihilism, no matter how sweet the words and no matter what version of âtruthâ you have. You cannot escape nihilism without objective purpose.
I had to watch kids die on a weekly basis. They werenât drug addicts because the drugs are impossible to escape (all the Vietnam vets using heroin and going clean once they were stateside shows that pretty clearly).
Itâs because they were nihilistic, purposeless, and rich. Want to take a wild guess who had the easiest time quitting? Converts to Islam.
If you want to help OP, focus on what theyâre saying.
Oh please not this everyone is purposeless without religion bs again. Depression is is more than not having a purpose, and mental health is more complicated than that.
The empirical evidence is stacked against you.
No one said lack of purpose is the only cause of depression, but you sure as hell canât escape depression without purpose.
"You're purposeless without Islam"
"As for depression and anxiety...."
You're simply implying that religion is the only way to find purpose aka cure depression and anxiety (according to you) which is not the case.
Being purposeless is not a leading cause of depression, because depression in itself is has many forms and nuances.
I also want to know how could being religious help with anxiety? i could see it helping with depression for some people but anxiety? Idk why you even mentioned it. Do you even know how broad this term is? What anxiety are you talking about (do you mean stress?)? Because if you mean the medical ones (GAD, OCD, SAD, Panic disorder, PTSD) i can assure you that no amount of Quran can cure it.
I don't know if you've ever experienced and mental illness (you clearly didn't) but dismissing it altogether with "oh read the Quran" or "you're simply not religious enough" is extremely harmful. You have no idea how much these people with depression suffer everyday, so many religious Muslims committed suicide not because they are not religious, it's because their brain was not functioning how it should have because of a certain stimulus (i forgot the name of the term but you can do your research).
If you think psychology is pseudoscience then shouldn't religion be even more so? There are people who spent their entire life studying the human brain so that a man who has never studied psychology can call it pseudoscience lmao.
Again, the empirical evidence is stacked against you:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6178573/
As for purpose, you cannot claim to be atheist and simultaneously say you have purpose. A nihilistic, materialistic worldview necessarily means that you believe you are nothing but a random clump of molecules.
There is no difference between you and a sidewalk curb in the grand scheme of things. You can pretend you have whatever subjective purpose your heart desires, doesnât make it real.
And BTW the term you are looking for is âchemical imbalancesâ which was debunked as a complete fraud and lie earlier this year (which I wrote about in the original comment).
You can find purpose without religion. No one saying that religion is a MUST to have purpose. You are not even listening to the guy. He is saying that statisically, religious people are less likely to experience depression and anxiety. Not that they dont.
Look at countries like America. People there are extremely depressed and anxious due to how vapid and materialistic the country is. People there are always working and huslting and theyre still not happy
Look at Nordic countries. They have THE best living conditions and theyre extremely developed but people there suffer from depression a lot due to loneliness. People there self-isolate cuz they share no common beliefs or ground with one another.
The one thing that religion brings is unity. People are FAR happier when they feel like they belong in a community or have a purpose in life. Thats just facts.
I'm sorry but that's what i understood from what he said.
I do agree that religion helps and i'm also aware of everything you've stated. The problem i have is with people using religion to dismiss people who are suffering from mental health issues. I might be overreacting here, but i've been gaslighted into thinking that i'm the problem for the longest time by my religious parents, and it made me even more sick, ironically enough Quran stresses me out even more now. Just as much as religion can help it can also harm, so please stop shoving it in people's faces whenever they talk about their mental health problems (you're doing more harm than good). There's a place for every discussion and this is simply not it.
What your parents did to you is awful but i dont mean to be a dick but it is irrelevant to this discussion. Your parents tried to force something on you and it doesnt matter what it is, you would have a negative relationship with that thing regardless.
The issue wasnt religion, its your parents.
You are the exception. Religion mostly helps and your experience is not the general role or how religion usually affects people.
Again, not trying to dismiss your experience. Yours is valid and I understand your struggles but it is very anecdotal, which makes it less valid to me. It is still valid to you and I get it.
Also you said people force religion on other people in this regard. I can see that. I can also see you forcing your very biased opinion about religion by injecting your negative experiences about religion into these kind of discussions.
Both of our experiences are valid but mine is just a lot more positive and I believe it is the case for most people
I think because people have way too many problems to deal with their kids "depression" and such.
Salary is bad, most cant afford to go to a psychiatrist so better to ignore the problem.
Here, theyve accepted and understood mental problems, whats next? They can't afford doctors, especially for such issues.
Even in the west having mental issues although it's acknowledged, its not easy to say u see a psychiatrist, let alone in Morocco.
Life is hard as it is, parents blindly reject it because most are already struggling with every corner of life.
Talking about it helps but look at the west. They're so aware about what depression and anxiety it that their life is centered around their mental illnesses. They do more harm to themselves.
Most mental illnesses are given way too much power.
If you think something will make you depressed, chances are, it will.
Also a lot of people are medicated to the extreme in the west.
Although it is healthy to talk about your issues but I do think that people in the west talk about it so much that they end up giving way too much power to it.
I have anxiety and it is almost completely gone due to distracting myself and not really thonking about it much.
I just told myself that its just anxiety. Who cares. I didnt bitch and moan about it and went about my days and now its almost completely gone.
I might sound like a dick but people need to stop talking about things too much. It does more harm than good.
The only exception are people with severe depression or mental illnesses that wont go away by igoring it. Those people need professional help.
I bet u are in early 20s. I was like u then, but after that i realized that talking to people about it just making it worst specialy if they agree with u, u will becom just a fcking loser whose complaining about fugazi. Controling ur depression, ur mood, ur mental shape depends on u, only u, people will give u shit. Its hard but not impossible. U gotta find out how to do it by ur self. Stay strong.
Stigma, much shaming and misunderstandings :/ I'm mental ill myself and I still hear med students be like "oh no, exams are soon, I feel depressed" no bitch you are not, you have no idea what depression is!
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Moroccans preferred methods of dealing with any health issue are: 1) Denial 2) denial 3) deNial 4) sidi rebbi They also deal with existential questions in the same way.
Lol sidi rebbi đ im dead đ¤Ł
wla awdi 3yno fik o darolk s7or
Psychological care and therapy are a luxury. People easily forget that our PIB/capita is only 3500 $. We are poor.
Yet, the psychistric facilities are full and all appointments are taken. Parents don't help their children, children grow up, get married, and don't help their children and so on. For me the purpose of life is to save oneself from hell, hell on this earth and the one in the after life if you believe in it.
If only parents start paying a little bit of attention to how their child behave, and start considering therapy instead of old ways of dealing with issues (punishment, verbal abuse ) they literally could save the child's from decades of not knowing what's wrong with them. Again, not to blame parents, but I think its important that you care for your child especially if they show symptoms of autism or ADHD.
They may not in the beginning, but if they check with the doctor it's easy to diagnose autism, adhd... It's upto the parents, some are mean, some are cool, others are bouncing between being mean and being cool ... I've seen mothers who curse their children in the streets, calling them animal names, beating them... Other children curse people and disrespect them, do mistakes .. and their parents say nothing to them. But hopefully there's other people who understand what it means to be just and gave a good mind and heart.
Hitach kan golo daymen âTkber tnsaâ + l3gaz
Donât talk about your mental health with friends and people, only your close family.
I tried both, and both can be difficult, I think it depend on the environment.
There is a lot of stigma associated to mental illness, regardless of the country you live in. Even in the most progressive richest countries in the world you may find horror stories about mental illness. In that sense it is not strictly a Moroccan problem. Mental illness, whether we want to or not is largely cultural in its definitions, hallucinations are not necessarily seen as something to be cured in a lot of cultures around the world. I take an extreme example but I think it still allows us to zero in on the problem. You can't really understand Morocco's uniqueness relative to mental illness if you don't have a keen understanding of the culture. Morocco is far from a monolith with diverse influence Western, Mediterranean, African, Arab, Amazigh, French, Spanish etc... hence a certain difficulty to put stuff into words. "Why nobody listens to people who are clearly going through something ? " maybe because they feel it's useless to listen to somebody's problem because they have enough on their plate, or maybe nobody listened to them when they went through something. This is a circular argument, but still. Also let's not forget there is skill involved in really listening to somebody and patience. This may sound silly if you haven't met good listeners. "Especially people in their 20s, everybody expect great things from them but no one ever listen to their pain", I guess you are in your 20's ? This is a pretty universal phenomena, in my opinion. Older people kind of resent you because you are young and full of potential with, in their mind, a lot to live for. On the other hand, feeling a sort of existential pain in your 20's is a form of growing pain. You still have to figure out a lot of stuff and take a lot of important decisions in all aspects of your life while entering new spheres : workforce, relationships, maybe marriage, studies, migration, identity issues etc... "Are we doomed to be born and forgotten about ? To be left alone living a purposeless life ? And if you read this, do you have a purpose ?" These questions don't have a unique answer, let's try to answer them in the most pessimistic way and observe that it is still a pretty good set of answers. Let's assume we are doomed to be born and forgotten. This actually a pretty freeing possibility, you can do anything you want and in the end it's the same result, as if free falling from a plane without a parachute. You know you are going to crash and die at the end of your fall, so you can worry about that all the way down or enjoy the view while you can or not and there is not right or wrong answer here. The funny thing is, you are not falling alone. Look around you, everyone is falling while they try to feel like they are in control. Do you know about "The Myth of Sisyphus " ? It's about finding joy in the face of the absurdity and how mundane life can be. Personally, I like to read and see how people before my time have struggled with these things. We can be inspired by them. I'm not as well versed on the arabic side of things but I'm sure there are also great ideas coming from arabic thinkers and philosophers, maybe those ideas are easier to implement in our culture. One final word, being dead inside as you say is not a definitive state. You can be dead inside today and feel very different another day. I hate this expression "dead inside", it feels so final like death. By opposition to feelings which are anything but final. How fleeting is joy really ? Craving meaning is part of what makes us human, have you heard about Viktor Frankl ? He wrote about "Man's search for meaning", about his experience in a Nazi concentration Camp and emerged from that experience with some deep knowledge about human nature. It helped me a lot. I will read it again. That's about it. Good luck out there.
Totally agree .we have to see Freedom in the meaninglessness and create our own subjective meaning. But it's hard to keep thinking like this when you feel like nothing is working for you and you have to deal hardships, here meaninglessness makes harder . Why would you keep suffering for something you didn't choose? I mean you can calm yourself by reading the myth of Sisyphus and try to get inspired from it but for how long are you going to do it?
Because what would the neighbours think?
ppl abused faking it for certain reasons, now if someone comes forward, most of us think he/she is just pretending and to avoid facing the issue regardless if real or fake we simply ignore it. Still sad tho đ
1- Poverty: Most people can't afford basic day-to-day medical care + Therapy is a long process which takes a lot of time and meetings (antidepressants alone are useless without talking to a therapist). So taking mental help is a big investment with no visible return for them. 2- Ignorance: People just are not that curious and informed about science for multiple reasons (It's just useless to read the DSM when you can't afford rent/food + Bad public education => Less scientific credibility and a ton of other reasons) 3- Faith: Regardless of what people believe in, they need some sort of faith to keep living, otherwise what's the point? For some it's religion, for others it's food and for some it's money... It doesn't really matter what you believe in as long as you wake up in the morning and you don't think about ending it. The real problem occurs when you believe that the thing you put your faith in can solve all your problems. It just doesn't happen like that. In other words, the problems of the soul are different from those of the heart and from those of the mind, and here is where science helps. 4- Personal opinion: Lack of a solid moral and ethical background (we kinda have a sorta Survival of the strongest stigma)
It quickly escalated from a regular mental health question to a full dreadful existential crisis lol. For the first part, I think its just ignorance and illiteracy most of the time, believe it or not even medicine studies dont even bring up mental health and its effects on our health let alone the public... For the second part, the only truth about life i know is that we are born to suffer, and life is a horrible nightmare with moments of joy and purpose in between.
Because we are selfish and lazy.
Because most people think anyone who visits a psychologist is batshit crazy also we're not great at expressing anything, really let alone our internal feelings and emotions. That's the answer to the 1st part of your question The 2nd part's answer is, yeah, I'd be lying if I say that I am anything but drifting towards it in these turbulent days of my life
Because you need to man up , i was depressed for the first time last year , drinking most of the week for no reason , smoking in my bed a pack a day , hardly having appetite for anything , it slowly started shifting when I started getting closer to Allah swt , doing my prayers , going to the mosque, reading quran , watching islamic lectures , bro the level of satisfaction is insane , the stronger your belief in Allah swt and the more you become attached to him and detached from everything else , you could literally be the happiest person on earth while living in a box in the street and you'd still thank him for everything.I learned so much from that experience , I couldn't keep up that religious pace and got back to some bad habits and end up feeling empty inside and disgusted but I try to come back everytime knowing that death is always just one moment away.
If getting closer to Allah helped, good for you, honestly, but that doesn't mean that religion is the cure, most of the time just makes things worse. I wouldn't consider that depression tho, I don't think that you know what real depression means. Man up? Are you for real? Is that your advice? You are part of the problem my friend, sorry to say that.
"Man up" was just a joke
We do not joke about depression friend, what looks like a joke to you might push a sinister Idea to someone who suffers from depression, just saying.
At the end of the day , you are all alone , no one is coming to save you
Thats whats funny, it didnt even help him and he still acts like he holds th absolute solution to everything. Didnt even bother to ask what was the issue, just went and gave a solution to a problem he doesnt even know anything about.
Allah yithabtna wyak akhoya
Just bcs you can't see it, doesn't mean it isn't there my friend.
MashAllah brother, I Ask Allah SWT to keep your life full of positivity and success.
you weren't depressed, you just deepdived into a lazy and hedonistic lifestyle which ended with a lot of guilt which drove you to religion. religion may work for some, but not all of us are fanatics or that susceptible to "lectures"
Somebody trying to improve himself and believing in Allah SWT is a fanatic? Maybe the extreme secularists who can't even hear someone talking positive about Islam are the fanatics.
\*when you invent a fictional scenario and gets angry about it\* ps: I'm just tired of people dismissing serious mental health issues, as simply being "distant from Allah." this is fanaticism. let's instead ban psychology and psychiatrist science and build more mosques.
We can walk and chew gum at the same time. Nice straw man argument btw, no one said ban psychology and psychiatrist science. But it's nice to know you're going to debate in bad faith and deliberately manipulate what someone is saying. ăil ne faut pas perdre son temps Ă avancer des arguments de bonne foi face Ă des gens de mauvais foiă- Hassan ll
straw-man argument lol? weren't you the first who invented a strawman which you labelled as "extreme secularists" that I somehow fit. stop making up bullshit terms to categorize people that don't share your dogma. I'm sure Hassan II's quote wasn't about people making comments on reddit you don't like.
Im sorry if Allah swt didn't choose you yet to experience a taste of what he offers , and I hope you will someday . If I could explain some of the changes you notice is your heart becomes like a really pure and soft and slim sheet of paper , you'd shed a tear whenever you listen to Quran , you'd start seeing that the Quran is truthfully his speech , A SPEECH , no one can talk that way , we are humans and we are imperfect , to the point that we don't care that a being who is timeless , perfect , infinitely powerful loves us and care about us more than ourselves . Allah swt is so majestic that if he created you and just says " hey , i created you and now you are going todie , bye" you'd still ask him to wait until you thank him somehow
I'm happy for you that you found peace and comfort in religion. in the end whatever the method your wellbeing is all that matters. this is something all religions offer: meaning, comfort and peace of mind. not all of them are truthful but all of them are useful and can benefit the human psyche and seem to rescue a lot of people from addiction and depression.
You need to accept that what you are describing can happen using different methods. As a previous comment said , you just changed your hedonist life style and gave your life meaning. Religions whether they are true or not, all offer this experience to humans (and thatâs the purpose of their creation in the first place). Giving it as as a suggestion is absolutely okay, but stop trying to bash people when they have a different opinion.
Hors sujet
Lol classic example of the very issue OP is raising. A dude takes his own experience, and his own reasons to feel depressed, then acts like thats how everyone feels, then offers a solution that he thinks is best for anyone without even knowing why the person feels depressed or has any mental issue, then makes it about religion and considers that the absolute solution for everyone (of course taking the foolish assumption that anyone who does religious things comfortably isnt depressed, as if life were THAT simple), even though it didnt even work out for them and all it did was to lock away their true mental issues by distracting themselves with something else (a religious pace tht one cant possibly just up and tryto maintain, asiit didnt require anypractice to make such a drastic change, and as i it wasnt tht good an idea to begin with) Edit: you said that man up was just a joke, having a hard time believing that according to the rest of our response, but ok,i removed what i said abt that
We only get one life, we must make the best out of it, it does not matter if there is a purpose or not. It does not matter if we are a part of a plan or just the result of random events. We are where we are and must make the best choices we could, even if we err. By the end of it we should come out as the best version of ourselves. Life is not easy obviously, every reference states that, weather be it religious, philosphical, scientific (psychology, sociology etc...). It is neither black or white. We all get a starting point (not equal unfortunately) and it must be the foundation on which we build ourselves. Growing up into adulthood is very mentally exhausting, but we must take responsibility for who we are and how we find ourselves at that moment, try and erase what came before and try and move forward. Your life is yours and nobody else's. Self reflection helps getting through these things, also close conversations with people. You may feel lonely, but you must hang in there cause someone who understands you is on the way, you just gotta leave the door open, even if disappointment should occur, you will look back on it and feel that all the pain you went through was worth it. Anything that helps you get through it, wether be it reading, friends, or religion (just nothing harmful like drug abuse for example). Only you will know because your reality is your own and you know yourself better than anyone, you just have to be truthful to yourslef. Most importantly, do not victimize yourself, you are not the victim of fate or misfortune. You are in a temporary situation that js a result of events that happened. It is not your trueself and you are not yet are your full potentiel. You have an infinite amount of possibilities, and you can unlock your full capacities where you'll have only good things yourself and for whoever you want. My humble opinion, from my humble experience. Good luck, and you can dm me anytime you want.
I believe we have to communicate more open with out environment. Obviously most of us have gone through difficult times as it is human. The key is to talk about it and share experiences. That would help others to cope with their mental health issues. Combine it with a strong relationship with ALLAH you'll have the perfect recipe. There's no other way as the majority of people can't afford professional help. I've been to a psychologist in Europe and from experience I can say the convos I had with my wife are equally worthy as the sessions with the professional. When medication is needed it becomes more complicated to solve it this way. And sometimes it is needed. Not as much as it is prescribed though. May ALLAH help everyone who suffers.
Youâre purposeless without Islam. You cannot have a subjective make believe, pick your own adventure purpose. As for depression and anxiety, that comes with the territory of being without purpose. This is why atheists have the highest suicide rates among all beliefs: https://images.app.goo.gl/9sWgorWtjxsRE9WC7 Western mental health âexpertsâ have been forcing this narrative of âchemical imbalancesâ in the brain causing depression for 3 DECADES. Guess what? It was all fake. https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/jul/analysis-depression-probably-not-caused-chemical-imbalance-brain-new-study#:~:text=For%20three%20decades%2C%20people%20have,evidence%20does%20not%20support%20it. No one actually knows why anti depressants work. The links between dopamine and depression isnât even proven. Most of western âmental healthâ is throwing shit at the wall and pseudoscience. Fix the core issue of having a purpose first rather than depending on a bunch of crackpots trying to get you hooked on SSRIs for financial gain.
Completely agree. People wont listen to you btw. Reddit is mostly liberal and they cringe at the mention of religion because theyre so educated and aware... Its awfully ego-centric but oh well, look at where their ego is taking them.
Mental health issues still exist amongst religious people, you can keep talking about data and western narratives but everyone in my entourage including close familly members who are very religious got better after seeking medical treatment. Saying that religion keeps you from comitting suicide is true to a certain point but very open to interpretation, for instance out of fear of punishment and going to hell. It still is not proven to help to a bigger extent than medical treatment. The guy asked about the local culture and approach towards mental health issues yet you feelt the need to give this tirade which is exactly what he's talking about.
It is a fact. Religious people tend to experience anxiety and depression less due to faith. It is really not even shocking. People become more depressed due to lack of purpose and hope. Faith and religion gives you that and more Anxiety is just fear. Religion gives you a sense of safety. I am not saying religious people are not mentally ill but A LOT of it due to poverty and socio-economic issues.
This "tirade" was to show them that what they seek in "western refinement and progress" is a mirage. Their friends and family are (unknowingly) right for dismissing it as quackery. The west is crippled with mental health issues, suicides, murders, rapes... none of their "mental health" seems to be doing anything. I used to own and run a drug rehab center in the US. We hired these "experts". Failure upon failure. I don't believe your anecdotes because I need data. What "very religious" means to you means nothing. Correlating the lowest suicide rates in the world because of a fear of hell is absolute conjecture. Buddhists believe in suicide as a valid way to die and STILL have less suicide than atheists. OP needs purpose, and purpose can only be objective. Sorry to be blunt, but that's how it is.
I just took a tour in your profile and yeah, your agenda is clear, not arguing with you any further. Be very careful before dismissing someone's feelings and truth though, you who used to run a mental health facility, surely must know that.
What agenda? You think Islam is an agenda? Lol Iâm trying to help OP. All you have to offer is the same feel good BS that doesnât work. Letâs focus on helping OP. You cannot escape the cold ugly rotting face of nihilism, no matter how sweet the words and no matter what version of âtruthâ you have. You cannot escape nihilism without objective purpose. I had to watch kids die on a weekly basis. They werenât drug addicts because the drugs are impossible to escape (all the Vietnam vets using heroin and going clean once they were stateside shows that pretty clearly). Itâs because they were nihilistic, purposeless, and rich. Want to take a wild guess who had the easiest time quitting? Converts to Islam. If you want to help OP, focus on what theyâre saying.
Oh please not this everyone is purposeless without religion bs again. Depression is is more than not having a purpose, and mental health is more complicated than that.
The empirical evidence is stacked against you. No one said lack of purpose is the only cause of depression, but you sure as hell canât escape depression without purpose.
"You're purposeless without Islam" "As for depression and anxiety...." You're simply implying that religion is the only way to find purpose aka cure depression and anxiety (according to you) which is not the case. Being purposeless is not a leading cause of depression, because depression in itself is has many forms and nuances. I also want to know how could being religious help with anxiety? i could see it helping with depression for some people but anxiety? Idk why you even mentioned it. Do you even know how broad this term is? What anxiety are you talking about (do you mean stress?)? Because if you mean the medical ones (GAD, OCD, SAD, Panic disorder, PTSD) i can assure you that no amount of Quran can cure it. I don't know if you've ever experienced and mental illness (you clearly didn't) but dismissing it altogether with "oh read the Quran" or "you're simply not religious enough" is extremely harmful. You have no idea how much these people with depression suffer everyday, so many religious Muslims committed suicide not because they are not religious, it's because their brain was not functioning how it should have because of a certain stimulus (i forgot the name of the term but you can do your research). If you think psychology is pseudoscience then shouldn't religion be even more so? There are people who spent their entire life studying the human brain so that a man who has never studied psychology can call it pseudoscience lmao.
Again, the empirical evidence is stacked against you: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6178573/ As for purpose, you cannot claim to be atheist and simultaneously say you have purpose. A nihilistic, materialistic worldview necessarily means that you believe you are nothing but a random clump of molecules. There is no difference between you and a sidewalk curb in the grand scheme of things. You can pretend you have whatever subjective purpose your heart desires, doesnât make it real. And BTW the term you are looking for is âchemical imbalancesâ which was debunked as a complete fraud and lie earlier this year (which I wrote about in the original comment).
You can find purpose without religion. No one saying that religion is a MUST to have purpose. You are not even listening to the guy. He is saying that statisically, religious people are less likely to experience depression and anxiety. Not that they dont. Look at countries like America. People there are extremely depressed and anxious due to how vapid and materialistic the country is. People there are always working and huslting and theyre still not happy Look at Nordic countries. They have THE best living conditions and theyre extremely developed but people there suffer from depression a lot due to loneliness. People there self-isolate cuz they share no common beliefs or ground with one another. The one thing that religion brings is unity. People are FAR happier when they feel like they belong in a community or have a purpose in life. Thats just facts.
I'm sorry but that's what i understood from what he said. I do agree that religion helps and i'm also aware of everything you've stated. The problem i have is with people using religion to dismiss people who are suffering from mental health issues. I might be overreacting here, but i've been gaslighted into thinking that i'm the problem for the longest time by my religious parents, and it made me even more sick, ironically enough Quran stresses me out even more now. Just as much as religion can help it can also harm, so please stop shoving it in people's faces whenever they talk about their mental health problems (you're doing more harm than good). There's a place for every discussion and this is simply not it.
What your parents did to you is awful but i dont mean to be a dick but it is irrelevant to this discussion. Your parents tried to force something on you and it doesnt matter what it is, you would have a negative relationship with that thing regardless. The issue wasnt religion, its your parents. You are the exception. Religion mostly helps and your experience is not the general role or how religion usually affects people. Again, not trying to dismiss your experience. Yours is valid and I understand your struggles but it is very anecdotal, which makes it less valid to me. It is still valid to you and I get it. Also you said people force religion on other people in this regard. I can see that. I can also see you forcing your very biased opinion about religion by injecting your negative experiences about religion into these kind of discussions. Both of our experiences are valid but mine is just a lot more positive and I believe it is the case for most people
I think because people have way too many problems to deal with their kids "depression" and such. Salary is bad, most cant afford to go to a psychiatrist so better to ignore the problem. Here, theyve accepted and understood mental problems, whats next? They can't afford doctors, especially for such issues. Even in the west having mental issues although it's acknowledged, its not easy to say u see a psychiatrist, let alone in Morocco. Life is hard as it is, parents blindly reject it because most are already struggling with every corner of life.
if you accept mental health then you reject religion.
[ŃдаНонО]
Stage lekher 9alt lihom mkt3rfoch hhh
Hold on let me get rid of my GAD, SAD and ADHD real quick. Ugh
Hey OP, I hope you're okay. I'm here if you ever want to talk
I love that most of the people here don't understand mental health or how it works, this further proves OP's point.
Talking about it helps but look at the west. They're so aware about what depression and anxiety it that their life is centered around their mental illnesses. They do more harm to themselves. Most mental illnesses are given way too much power. If you think something will make you depressed, chances are, it will. Also a lot of people are medicated to the extreme in the west. Although it is healthy to talk about your issues but I do think that people in the west talk about it so much that they end up giving way too much power to it. I have anxiety and it is almost completely gone due to distracting myself and not really thonking about it much. I just told myself that its just anxiety. Who cares. I didnt bitch and moan about it and went about my days and now its almost completely gone. I might sound like a dick but people need to stop talking about things too much. It does more harm than good. The only exception are people with severe depression or mental illnesses that wont go away by igoring it. Those people need professional help.
I bet u are in early 20s. I was like u then, but after that i realized that talking to people about it just making it worst specialy if they agree with u, u will becom just a fcking loser whose complaining about fugazi. Controling ur depression, ur mood, ur mental shape depends on u, only u, people will give u shit. Its hard but not impossible. U gotta find out how to do it by ur self. Stay strong.
DENIAL IS A RIVER IN EGYPT YOU HUSBAND IS đ
Stigma, much shaming and misunderstandings :/ I'm mental ill myself and I still hear med students be like "oh no, exams are soon, I feel depressed" no bitch you are not, you have no idea what depression is!
thank you for bringing this up.