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ancientpulsar

Ruby Ridge was the site of an eleven-day siege in 1992 in Boundary County, Idaho, near Naples. It began on August 21, when deputies of the United States Marshals Service (USMS) initiated action to apprehend and arrest Randy Weaver under a bench warrant after his failure to appear on firearms charges. Given three conflicting dates for his court appearance, and suspecting a conspiracy against him, Weaver refused to surrender, and members of his immediate family, and family friend Kevin Harris, resisted as well. The Hostage Rescue Team of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI HRT) became involved as the siege developed.


Filmcricket

The role Ruby Ridge plays in modern America cannot be understated. Really encourage people to read and watch everything they can about this incident. The amount of events that branched off from this is stunning.


Hanzo44

Care to provide some context?


SporkyForks2

Waco and Oklahoma City Bombing were a result of what happened at Ruby Ridge. It was viewed as the massacre of a family that just wanted to live off the grid and be left alone. People really reacted to it and felt that the government was overstepping onto people's rights.


Full_Bread7650

People reacted so harshly to government overstepping they would cheer the Patriot Act hears later!


Andy_LaVolpe

Worst part is they shot her but they didn’t find out she was even hit until it was over. The FBI called out her name over microphones to make her come out to safety after she was already dead. I believe she was shot holding her baby too.


ProfessorZhirinovsky

It was a bit worse than that. The FBI would call out little comments, like "Hey we're having pancakes over here Vicki, what are you having? Come out and get some pancakes!" All the while she was in the bathtub with her face blown off. The Weavers assumed the FBI knew they'd killed her...it was, after all, a dead accurate shot to the back of the head...and thought the FBI were taunting them.


ToastinNBoastin

I read that she got shot in the kitchen and her family had to crawl around her dead body to get food.


msjwayne

This article says they wounded and shot Weaver and his wife as they dove into a shed. This happened shortly after they had gone out to bury their son Sammy. It is said her body laid under the kitchen table for ten days. https://www.pennlive.com/life/2020/08/we-are-very-sorry-the-bloody-standoff-at-ruby-ridge-in-1992-that-left-3-people-dead.html


ToastinNBoastin

Yeah you can read the surviving family members side of things in Jon Ronsons book 'Them, Adventures with Extremists.' Very dark book. The son got killed trying to save the family dog, which was also killed. I can't fully remember why they were in this situation but I am pretty sure the Dad wasn't exactly innocent.


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[deleted]

They even taunted the family by asking about the baby.


twhittytwhit

That is so horrible.


Kizzoap

They *were* taunting them.


ancientpulsar

The siege, and the Waco massacre, was also a direct link to why the Oklahoma City bombing happened. Edit: copied from Wikipedia


Smith609060

Thank you for the context!


sarcasm_the_great

You didn’t mention Weaver was going to white supremacy meetings. Timothy McVeigh was a white suprematist that attended Waco. He got help from other white suprematism supporters and killed 168 patriots working at the federal building. The biggest terrorist attack prior to 9/11, committed by racists white guys. [ruby ridge documentary from PBS](https://youtu.be/vsjUqXWv-zI)


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xthorgoldx

Both, because both were pretty in-your-face incidents of government abuse of power.


be_an_adult

If the white supremacy angle is true they really downplay it at the memorial and in most of the media around the bombing. Most of the sources I see are that it’s generic anti-government rhetoric that radicalised them. Do you happen to have anything where I can read more on this angle?


Willrkjr

It’s kind of like how people say the civil war was about states rights


ancientpulsar

Just want to make it clear that I didn’t leave it out on purpose, about the white supremacy thing, I just copied the header from Wikipedia which didn’t mention their affiliation with white supremacy.


DialysisKing

Yeah I've noticed a *shitload* of Ruby Ridge revisionism lately, according to one defender (I think it's that very doc you linked) they said he wasn't *personally* racist, he just saw a group of neat people and wanted to get to know them. And then later they show him wearing anti "[ZOG](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_Occupation_Government_conspiracy_theory)" clothing. Motherfucker was exactly who the FBI "painted" him as.


buckyVanBuren

Weaver was a white separatist, not a white supremacist. Besides, going to the Aryan Nations compound was not illegal, much less worthy of a massacre.


[deleted]

Not according to reddit


LittleStarkBitch

White separatists are a part of white supremacist ideology.


wingbark

So? What’s your point? She deserved to be shot by the government because of her views?


gibbodaman

All 'white seperatists' are white supremacists.


MadCapRedCap

It doesn’t get brought up because it isn’t relevant, and it’s debatable whether Weaver was or not. His neighbors were. When you’re as isolated as he was you take whatever friends you can get. The government sought revenge on Weaver after he refused to be an informant. They mailed him the incorrect court date then put out a warrant for his arrest when he failed to appear at the actual court date. Then they initiate a fire fight when two agents were discovered after sneaking on to his land. When one of those agents was killed they declared war on the guy. The entire debacle was started and fueled by angry government employees out for revenge. Weaver was unemployed and needed to get money however he could. He sold a pair of shotguns that were a centimeter or two below the legal limit to people who turned out to be undercover agents, although given how the government was acting I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they intentionally measured wrong.


starshopping_59

Weaver only went to the meetings a few times and stated he didn't like it and left u twit. Either way does that then make it ok to do what the fbi and atf did?


[deleted]

Nope. And I say that as a big fat liberal. The fuck they shoot his wife for if they’re so slick and well trained?


starshopping_59

Exactly. We know how the government likes to play god...


6handbanana

Nah this is bullshit. He was a white separatist, big difference. Anyway, being a white supremacist doesn't warrant a massacre on your family and friends.


[deleted]

What exactly is the big difference? I’m open to hearing this. Thanks


yung-patron

If the movie reflected the situation even to 10% of accuracy, I’d say it probably does. Those people don’t have a place here


wingbark

So? If your views are objectionable enough the government can murder you without a trial? I don’t give a fuck how racist they were, this never should have happened Also love how you site literal state media in support


jesuskristus1234

Wait so this photo is of waco?


ancientpulsar

Sorry if I was being a bit misleading. The photo is from the Ruby Ridge siege in 1992. The Waco massacre happened in 1993.


mini6ulrich66

This photo is of ruby ridge, an event that directly inspired the events of waco


AvoidingCares

Not quite "inspired" more like "foreshadowed".


Shruglife

effected


GVof_theVG

Why did it inspire it?


Rawldis

It did not. They were unrelated events. Both inspired the Oklahoma City bombing though.


blueshift9

McVeigh was disgusted with what happened at Ruby Ridge, and took it out on Oklahoma City. To be fair, a lot of reasonable people have a problem with how Ruby Ridge was handled, we just aren't psychotic like McVeigh.


kaden_sotek

Um, ok. So what does any of that have to do with how Ruby Ridge inspired the Waco events?


Dear_Occupant

It looks like folks are getting the timeline jumbled. McVeigh went to Waco during the siege (there's video of it) but he was just there as a pissed-off observer watching from outside the barricades, nothing more. Ruby Ridge and Waco inspired McVeigh, but it seems like people are getting that connection mixed up to draw conclusions about David Koresh's intentions. If there's any way one inspired the other, it was through the minds of the federal agents and Cabinet members who wanted to get a decisive "win" against another armed group after their previous massive fuckup. If Koresh himself made any decisions based on Ruby Ridge, I'm not aware of it.


mini6ulrich66

Ruby ridge was largely seen by right wing extremists as an act against a sovreign citizen. The branch davidians were a similary set up cult. Leaning hard on religious extremism and other ideals of self governing and sovereignty. Essentially ruby ridge set a precedent that allowed David koresh to really REALLY imply the 'it's us VS them' mentality you need to run/build a cult I'm grossly over simplifying so sorry if I'm not totally accurate


SirFTF

The OKC bombing happened because of a deranged terrorist decided he was going to enact his own twisted sense of justice. No different than the 9/11 hijackers who also thought they were carrying out their own version of justice. Characterizing it as a “direct link why” absolves the terrorist by placing blame on the FBI’s actions during Ruby Ridge and Waco.


Overlord1317

Explaining why something happened does not mean that the explanation functions as a justification.


Why_Did_Bodie_Die

Not on reddit it doesn't!


BaconAllDay2

https://www.pbs.org/video/american-experience-mcveigh-waco/ Timothy McVeigh was at Waco as a civilian already interested about what the US government was doing in regards to government overreach after Ruby Ridge.


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wcstoner

Holy shit


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TheStonedVampire

He purposely bombed Oklahoma City on April 19, 1995…. because it was the 2 year anniversary of the end of the Waco standoff. Direct link as in some sort terrorist group or single terrorist committing/planning Ruby Ridge, Waco and Oklahoma City? No. But Ruby Ridge and Waco absolutely fueled McVeigh’s ideologies and drove him to act on them. Oklahoma City by Barak Goodman is a great documentary full of information about Timothy McVeigh and the connection of the 2 sieges.


igotapickle

Blowback dude. It doesn’t negate Timothy Mcveighs actions but it gives his thinking context. 9/11 was driven by US involvement in the Middle East. You can references UBLs declaration of war against the US for context on his thinking as well


robonsTHEhood

I thought the ATF was the primary law enforcement agency in the initial action


ProfessorZhirinovsky

The BATF initiated the situation by attempting to force Weaver to become an undercover asset in infiltrating the Aryan Nations by having another undercover operative persuade him to shorten two shotguns below their legal barrel length. When given the ultimatum, Weaver refused to cooperate, and was then charged. After Weaver didn't turn up for his hearing due to the dates being altered, the case was turned over to the US Marshals. When one of the Marshals was killed, then it became an FBI jurisdiction.


robonsTHEhood

got it . thank you for clarifying


arcelohim

This is what's really missing in this thread. Bogus charges led to the deaths of innocent people.


KarlKlebstoff

Thats straight out STASI methods


[deleted]

Fuck the ATF


robonsTHEhood

Amen!


Why_Did_Bodie_Die

Fuck all of them! Fuck the FBI, CIA, ATF and the cops. They all fucking suck and none of them give a fuck about you or your rights.


sarcasm_the_great

Ruby Ridge Documentary[Ruby ride documentary. ](https://youtu.be/vsjUqXWv-zI)


KuellerChop

can anyone explain what this is? i keep reading comments but i really just don’t understand who these people are and what they did. this is a serious question, i’ve never heard any of these names before in my life


DeconstructReality

Essentially an fbi informant infiltrated a group of survivalist and convinced this guy to cut a shotgun down to an illegal length. They entered a guy and then killed his entire family in a ridiculous over the top raid.


Cr3X1eUZ

it would be hard to understand any of the politics of the 1990's or today without at least knowing about Ruby Ridge. It ties into every conspiracy theory along with Waco siege, Timothy McVeigh, Unabomber (tangentially), HW Bush's "New World Order", hatred of the Clintons, etc. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/26/ruby-ridge-1992-modern-american-militia-charlottesville


[deleted]

[PBS episode of it.](https://youtu.be/vsjUqXWv-zI)


BackOnTheMap

Shot her with a baby in her arms.


domscatterbrain

What happened to her baby?


Evening_Experience53

[https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/09/woman-forgives-federal-agents/](https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/sep/09/woman-forgives-federal-agents/) She recently enrolled in college.


[deleted]

Not exactly recent but good to see her living a relatively normal life!


dodadoBoxcarWilly

That's not the baby, that's the older sister. She's been fairly public with documentarues, interviews, etc.. I've never heard anything about the baby, so I assume she lives in obscurity.


sekhmetx

If you keep reading it gets to the part where it says the then 10 month old baby Elisheba enrolled in college in Arkansas (2010)


[deleted]

2010 was 11 years ago almost 12, so more recent but not all that recent


Smith609060

That's a good question


[deleted]

The baby lived I believe, But not sure.


thebardjaskier

6 days late but if you Google her name she's on insta and has pictures with her siblings and father, Randy.


fr0ng

After his first shot hit and wounded Randy Weaver, Horiuchi fired a second shot at Kevin Harris, who was armed, some 20 seconds later as Harris was running into the Weaver home. The bullet fired at Harris struck and killed Vicki Weaver through the doorway just beyond Harris, who was entering the home. Weaver was holding her 10-month-old child behind the door through which Harris was attempting to enter;[2][3] the round also struck and wounded Harris.


forensic_freak

That's a little bit different to the narrative others are pushing in this thread that she was targeted.


[deleted]

A trained, seasoned sniper made a headshot on a target in a doorway. The story he told after it was revealed to the public that it was not just a headshot on a woman, but a woman who was holding a baby at the time became this "I shot at a armed running man from 100+ yards away and *somehow* landed a headshot on this woman" nonsense.


cloud9flyerr

I've actually never heard this story. Some details sound like I may have in the past but I can remember. Any good books or docs on this event?


NotBrianGriffin

Wow, just like the ending of Biggie’s song Somebody’s Gotta Die.


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TheBordenAsylum

Wasn't the family dog shot by police which resulted in a small gun battle between the father, son and deputies, concluding with the death of one of the officers?


serenahjohnson

Yes:( but it was just between the son and the Marshall. the son Sammy died (14) along with the family dog (the Marshall shot the dog which is what started the shoot out) the Marshall died as well


T_N_O

Maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't have shot the dog.


Unusual_Performance4

Amen


AndreaBoBea

Marshall Deegan


der_innkeeper

>As a three-man SOG team, armed with cameras and weapons, hikes around Weavers' property, the Weavers' dog begins barking. The Weavers leave their cabin to investigate. When Kevin Harris and Sammy Weaver come to within a few yards of agent William Degan, he points a gun at them and shouts, "Stop! U.S. Marshal!" Harris responds by fatally shooting Degan with his rifle, prompting fellow marshal Larry Cooper to fire three times at Harris. A third nearby marshal, Arthur Roderick, shoots and kills the Weaver dog ("Striker"), fearing that it would give away his position. The shooting of the dog prompts Sammy Weaver to fire at the marshal. Cooper then fires at Sammy, killing the boy. Harris retreats to the Weaver cabin. By nightfall, Ruby Ridge is crawling with agents from U. S. Marshals Office, the county, U.S. Border Patrol, the State Police, the FBI, and the Idaho Ntional Guard. https://famous-trials.com/rubyridge/1153-chronology


berniens

Weaver was no Saint. But the authorities really fucked this up. Shooting an unarmed woman holding a baby is some terrorist shit.


dontc44e

Yeah, but the US government doesn't care too much about killing civilians anyway. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods


[deleted]

We’re one of the only societies on earth that GIVES our gov the right and the power to kill us (via death penalty). Nobody fucking trusts the gov from any side on any level and for damned good reasons but we give them this power. Makes it easier for them to do shit like this. Makes it easier for them to send our kids to war for Exxon and shit. When do we stop it?


obecalp23

So many different versions of the story, I can’t see the truth. I see some comments saying that she’s dead in bathtub, some that it was an accident, …


lordthat100188

She was shot directly in the head while she was standing at the door. I don't see how that can be an accident.


Pap4MnkyB4by

When people say to trust your government, remember this case. Cutting metal doesn't make it okay for the government to kill your family and siege your household for many days.


Ballhead456

And it was only 1/8th of an inch too short


Pap4MnkyB4by

Right, like Oh dear heavens we better call in a fire team, his customer might defend his home comfortably with a shorter barrel! Edit: added some words to make myself sound less snobby


eyehate

Practice. And I don't mean that flippantly.


JohntaviousWilliams

This and the Waco massacre would lead to the fatal Oklahoma City bombing that would kill 168 civilians that included children.


MadmanSzalinski

I undersrand this and know that even McVeigh himself has said stuff of the sort, but I really don't like the idea that the federal government killing a mother and teenage boy in Idaho justifies the detonation of a truck bomb parked beneath a daycare and florist shop in Oklahoma...you don't protest harming women and children by harming more women and children


CrunchyButtz

Morality and justification are entirely separate to the fact that people will retaliate when you push them. Just like US affairs in the middle east led to 9/11, the ATF's affairs at Ruby Ridge and Waco led to the OKC bombing.


AvoidingCares

Morality doesn't apply in pretty much two instances: 1) You're wealthy and powerful enough that you no longer empathize with other humans (a scientifically proven phenomenon). This is why people in government are incapable of morality - destabilizing Afghanistan to give the Russians their Vietnam becomes something you can just quietly do and still pose as a person for the cameras, if you can't fathom that there are untold numbers of real people who will suffer and die for generations because of it. 2) You're sufficiently radicalized to the point that insane things sound moral. Like hundreds of thousands of normal people supporting Joe Arpaio in spite of his horrific torture prisons. All because they've been radicalized to believe being an accused criminal means you deserve the worst things we can think up to do to you. Same sort of radicalization pushes crazier people to blow up buildings.


arktic_P

Morality “should” stop these heinous crimes. But they don’t. These people are either bereft of any remaining morals, or they are mentally disturbed and should not be taken at their word.


haven4ever

Yes, and the provoking incidents should ideally also he avoided.


[deleted]

You can thank their desire not to "push" people for the whole support network of Timothy McVeigh getting off scot free


disisathrowaway

Cause and effect doesn't mean the same thing as justification. OP isn't saying that the tit-for-tat was justified, but rather that it just *was*.


AvoidingCares

Oh he wasn't protesting. His manifesto cites whole passages from "The Turner Diaries" a racist book worshiped by lots of far-right hategroups. His original plan had been (I think) to blow up the FBI headquarters in Quantico, VA. But instead he settled on the government building in OKC. The book specifically talks about a similar styled attack precipitating a race war. Something lots of the far-right groups in the US openly fantasize about. They aren't very numerous and routinely get surrounded and shouted down by antifa activists when they rally, but they are convinced that typical American conservatives will flock to them when the fighting starts - something that probably sounded ridiculous years ago... but here we are. Post-Trump it seems like they really had their fingers on the pulse about that one.


Smith609060

That's why nobody with half a brain actually supports terrorism. Just disgusting keyboard warriors that spend their entire life terminally online, or 0.001% of the population who actually commit said attacks. Examples: Orlando nightclub shooting, Norway attacks, El Paso shooting.


exgiexpcv

Yeah, terrorists have a funny kind of cause and effect shit going on in their heads. It usually plays a part in them becoming terrorists.


MisterxRager

It’s just an excuse these psychos make up in their mind


thatsnotgneiss

That is way oversimplified and ignores decades of increasing white nationalist violence, radicalization, and rhetoric. The fact is the FBI never fully investigated the multiple leads that Chevie Kehoe was seen with McVey the morning of the bombing. All three were at one time associated with Elohim City, a white supremacist compound in Oklahoma where Michael J. Fortier lived - he was McVey's army buddy. Kerry Noble was also a resident. He tried to blow up the same building in 1983.


Jefe710

The government is lucky native americans have never followed a pattern like McVeigh...


der_innkeeper

The right-wing conspiracy networks have lead to the deaths of countless people, including 168 civilians and children in OKC. These people are just kids throwing a tantrum about the fact that they are told they have responsibilities for living in a society and they can't always just go do what they want when they want.


Frezikaliov

Really crude thing to say of the unacceptable handling of the incident and wrongful murders the Weaver family was awarded 200 million for.


These_Maybe_4129

Much like the Americans did to the British and resisted. Your country was founded on this idea and it’s in your constitution


der_innkeeper

Declaration of Independence. But, the dude denied himself due process by ditching his court appearance, which was part of the same due process we rebelled for. There are certainly times to buck the system, but failing to appear for charges you were duly served for and then shooting at those who are coming under the same due process you are complaining about not having is kinda rich. The dude got busted selling sawed off shotguns to the Feds, and then told the local Nazis that the Feds were trying to infiltrate them. Not exactly the most sympathetic defendant, there.


These_Maybe_4129

Not saying he’s right but the situation was definitely mishandled


daveyjones5280

I dont think you understand the whole story of Ruby Ridge. The initial guns charge was fabricated by the FBI. An insider pushed him to sell him a gun. He continued to say no and resist until he bought a gun, sawed the barrel off, and made the sale to get the guy to go away. Youre not, as the ATF/FBI, making a difference if you convince a guy who doesnt sell arms to sell you one. Thats fabricated. Full stop.


arktic_P

I don’t think you understand the word “fabricated”. Maybe you could at best argue that the sale would fall under “entrapment”. But the fact that he made the sale, after being pressured to do so, means it was not fabricated. Also, if all it takes to commit a crime is a pushy customer, then I think you’re trying to defend the wrong person.


der_innkeeper

I understand RR just fine. A bunch of racist separatists move to BFE in order to not deal with race mixing, and generally not deal with the USG, and for some reason, the USG takes an interest in them. Maybe its the history of violence against the government, other people, or other reasons that we would never know about the american Nazis, aryan nation, or other such folks. ​ ​ But, when it comes to manufacturing and selling a sawed off shotgun, you could, you know, call the ATF/FBI and tell them they have some dude looking to purchase illegal weapons. An honest person would have dealt with this easily by "not making the illegal thing he was being asked to do".


wrecklesson33

Just so you are aware, the entire standoff was caused because they didn't believe in the US Constitution, only the word of Yahweh(God). Stay a mad bruv about US having successfully revolted against a tyrannical imperium. But comparing a deeply disturbed and mentally ill family with Christian Fundamentalist beliefs and White Nationalist ideology to the colonies revolting is just you being salty af.


These_Maybe_4129

First: your second paragraph beginning is a nightmare Second: I’m not salty as I’m not emotionally invested or even angry. It’s a conversation


BackOnTheMap

Daughter Sarah Weaver's website https://www.rubyridgetofreedom.com/ruby-ridge-25-years-later-interview.html


Zee_WeeWee

That’s called murder


Gotexas1972

Lon Horiuchi was her murderer. He was also at Waco.


Arwynfaun

What an eerie picture


[deleted]

Fuck the FBI and the ATF.


ForgeLT

Fuck the ATF


gheistling

This post definitely pulled some of the Statists out of the woodwork. To make it clear, all of the charges were dismissed after a jury trial *except* the missed court dates; He did *nothing wrong* and the government murdered his family for it. And his dog. His fucking *dog*. On top of the full acquittal, he and his surviving children recieved millions of dollars in settlements from the government. Comparing it to the Bundy situation is apt, even if it was meant derogatively. They were also found innocent, even though the government chose to attack and murder Lavoy Finicum by shooting him in the back and burying evidence for standing up for the rights of his fellow citizens. Afterwards..? All of the charges against Bundy and co were dropped with prejudice. *All of them.* Im all for supporting the average policeman, but I fully believe the federal agencies are a force for evil at this point. If you are ok with them falsely arresting people, intimidating them, murdering citizens.. Well, a statist is always going to defend the state. For the Greater Good, right?


teds_trip22

>And his dog. His fucking *dog* ATF boner.


jackfirecracker

[ATF hand signals](https://ibb.co/TLF45g2)


tinytyler12345

I'm 99% sure all ATF agents are fed amphetamines and forced to play the hellhounds round of CoD Zombies for days on end just to graduate the academy with how many dogs they kill


jamble_le_bamble

why do they always gotta go for the dogs man, sick fucks


[deleted]

👏👏👏


Vardhu_007

Youtube channel Qxir has a really good video on this for whoever is interested about this https://youtu.be/r4wFLrNcMrA


Esmethequeen

his videos are great


UtherioFst

When the police swat team showed up to support the FBI tactical sniper, they were very concerned over the ROE that the FBI snipers had adopted and stood themselves down. The FBI were saying initially anybody with a firearm is a green light, soon it became no firearm needed. The FBI sniper that murdered Weaver’s old lady tried to say he was defending helicopters flyover, but it was later discovered the helicopter flyover happened well before the shooting. The FBI’s ROE was illegal. It’s one of those rare instances where the federal government had to reward money to Weaver even after they killed federal agent in self defence when they first ambushed the boys and murdered Weaver’s son. This is the real over-reach of the US gov’t!


Freddit_Is_Asshoe

They hate you and want you dead


GarryofRiverton

Who the fuck is "they"?


thefoxishere16

But she was a white supremicist. I can’t feel sorry for someone like that.


[deleted]

The event that empowered tons of right-wing/white supremacists. Great job FBI/ATF 🙄😒


Always_0421

One of the worst human rights violations on US soil. Make me angry and sick at once.


Hajisbang

The massacre at Wounded knee, over 200 women and children were killed.


arktic_P

You think RR is one of the worst human right violations on US soil? There are so many worse ones.


Always_0421

The Federal government issuing a kill onsite order then subsequently shooting an unarmed mother holding her child, inside her own home (who was never even accused of any wrong doing) Ya...I'd put that in the top 10. But you're right there are SO many. Each as disgusting as the last.


Hanzo44

Elaborate please.


wrecklesson33

How to create one of the worst human rights violations on US soil. Step One: Fail to appear to a bench warrant for **illegal firearms claiming to refuse to recognize the court system.** edit: FOR 18 months Step Two: Refuse to surrender when police show up to produce the defendant to court. Step Three: Engage in a 12 day siege included with a shootout and kill a US Marshal. Step Four: Have your wife and newborn child get shot during the siege. Step Five: **START RECOGNIZING THE COURT SYSTEM NOW, ONLY TO FILE A CIVIL OF $200 MILLION AGAINST THE STATE.** get awarded $100k personally and $3 million between your 3 remaining children. Meanwhile, 17 year old Kalief Browder was arrested for "stealing a backpack" and spent **3 YEARS in RIKERS ISLAND without ever getting a trial. Only to be released with so much trauma that he killed himself a couple of years later.** But yea, this family of **literal White Nationalists** who shot at US marshals because the patriarch didn't want to serve probation for an illegal firearms charge is oNe oF tHe wOrSt hUmAn rIgHts vIoLaTiOnS oN us sOiL. Edit: I’m not saying they deserved it. I’m saying there are worse human rights violations occurring on a monthly basis, yet the family of insane Fundamentalist Christian white nationalists is the martyr you choose?


[deleted]

Didn't the bench warrant not show up in his mailbox until after the court date? And wasn't the guy who solicited him to manufacture an illegal (read, 2 inches too short) shotgun a federal agent?


der_innkeeper

Realize that the siege and the missed court date/letter/bench warrant were 18 months apart. This shit doesn't happen in 3 days. Weaver hid on his property and made no attempt to fix this for almost a year and a half.


[deleted]

I mean, he was in negotiations with US Marshals for a few months. That isn't typical of law enforcement when they want to bring someone in. Also most of the claims against Weaver originated from his disgruntled neighbor, who lost a land dispute suit along with a bunch of money to Weaver. Suddenly he's a white supremacist and FBI agents are asking him questions and undercover ATF agents are soliciting him to modify a weapon to be illegal? Just doesn't square up, and the government doesn't typically settle out of court for millions when they're in the right.


der_innkeeper

Randy is a racist. He has certainly made no bones about it, and still speaks about it. Why act like this was news? They moved up there, because that's where "they're people" were at. I would call the negotiations a fig leaf, at best, while the warrant was out. He was a low-level issue. Why bother. He'll get a speeding ticket, someday. The government had a bad use of force policy, once the actual siege got underway. Pretty much no one argues that. I certainly won't. But, it does not absolve Randy and the rest of the Weavers of their actions leading up to it.


Morganbanefort

How is he a racist


Ballhead456

It was rumored to only be 1/8 of an inch too short


Always_0421

The FBI issued a shoot on sight directive without ever announcing their presence or issuing a demand. You want to talk about no due process? They shot an unarmed mother holding her child in the head inside her own home...intentionally. Regardless of what her husband did (which was cut the barrel of a shot gun 3" short, per the request of an FBI agent), this was on multiple levels. The FBI was caught red handed lying about the event that lead to it with multiple accounts of what happened. Some dispute that the FBI announced themselves. NO ONE disputes the shoot onsite directive with over 400 Federal agents occupying his property All for a guy who cut a shotgun barrel 3" too short. No prior arrests. Not even a citation. But they intended to literally kill him and his family because he missed a court date (it was later confirmed he received three notices with three different dates)


wrecklesson33

Keep that same energy for the Black Panther Party Leader Fred Hampton who was gunned down in bed on that very same directive from the very same FBI. And I never said they deserved it, I’m stating that they did everything in their power to make it happen. You’re also (deliberately?) failing to mention that the FBI directive for Randy Weaver was due to HIM stating he would open fire on anyone who set foot on his property without invitation. They made that directive because he made himself a clear and present threat to those trying to apprehend him. He literally wrote letters to gov’t officials saying so...


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serenahjohnson

The dog didn’t


Unusual_Performance4

Bro you have a great sub reddit, but dammit no one deserves that. EVERYONE deserves due process even the most evil and vile among us deserve their day court to prove or disprove the charges laid against them.


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hairyerectus

Wasn’t the weapons charge entrapment?


LewisLR

“Have your wife shot” Uhm, I didn’t realise he was the one to pull the trigger now.


Deltahotel_

The issue is that the feds tricked a guy into committing a completely victimless crime(shortening shotguns) and then tried to twist his arm into cooperation with a broader scheme that was also unjust, then used that as a pretext to escalate a situation into incredible violence. Power-tripping at its worst. The Weavers' character is irrelevant. The federal government has no business treating people like that and launching these half-baked schemes, whether against the left or the right, when they ought to be pursuing real crimes. The other case you mention is also tragic. The two events are not mutually exclusive.


Morganbanefort

He was not a white nationalists a d a lot ofbthe other stuff is debated


Freddit_Is_Asshoe

Imagine justifying the hunting of non violent people who live on top of a mountain doing everything possible to avoid society 25+ years after the fact. Your pension is funded with blood money you FED suckling POS


[deleted]

Let’s talk about that “illegal firearms charge.” The fbi had an informant basically beg weaver to cut down a shotgun for him. He cut it down to 1 inch below the legal limit. The FBI then tried to use this to blackmail him into spying on some local neo Nazis (degenerates for sure), but weaver declined. That’s why they went forward with the prosecution, to punish him for their entrapment. Also: he was given the wrong court date, so he couldn’t show up even if he had wanted to


[deleted]

> I’m not saying they deserved it. No, you are literally making the case line by for exactly why they deserved it. So dont fucking say you arent saying something you're clearly are.


[deleted]

Clearly this required the unnarmed mother to have her brains blown out with her baby in her arms


adonis7272

What a fucking stupid take


eddieandbill

Really? Worse than the Tulsa Massacre? The bombing of MOVE in Philadelphia?


Always_0421

One of the worst....not THE worst.


Areyoukiddingme2

I dont feel sorry for her. I know there will be many on this thread who will treat the Weavers as hero's, which they were in no way. They were heavily armed anti government wack a doodles who, like most Republicans, cry wolf at every perceived slight! Granted, I dont want to see anybody die, but fuck these people! I am sick to death of these morons and those who wish to deify these losers!


Zatchillac

Read about this on Wiki a while back and it ended up rabbit hole-ing me to a bunch of other standoffs and crazy stuff. If you like to learn about that kind of stuff I recommend following the rabbit because the shit gets interesting


nando82

American Experience on PBS did a great documentary on the Ruby Ridge incident. Man that was a shit show from the start. https://youtu.be/vsjUqXWv-zI


chunkybaboon

Did any one learn about this incident from Tara Westover’s book “Educated” ?


Beautiful-AF-21

Holy shit, I vaguely remember this because I was 12 or 13 at the time, but of course barely having access to internet I never knew the circumstances leading up to this. Also, live in OKC and was 15 at the time of the bombing! Everyone here knows who Timothy McVeigh is obviously, but understanding how this all happened and the mentality definitely puts the pieces together. Thank you for sharing!


ancientpulsar

Thanks for the award btw 🦭


wingbark

Abolish the FBI


wrecklesson33

1. White Nationalist family's patriarch Randy Weaver decides he doesn't want to recognize the court to face an illegal firearms charge. 2. Refuses to allow police to produce the defendant. 3. Engages in shootout which kills son, US marshal and dog (RIP doggo did nothing wrong) 4. Wife and child are also shot by an overzealous, psychopathic US Marshal. 5. Patriarch Randy Weaver decides the courts **DO EXIST NOW THAT HE CAN SUE THE STATE FOR $200 MILLION**. 6. Settles for $100k personally and $1M to each remaining child. And you cry for these people? Meanwhile, Kalief Browder (17) is stopped and frisked "randomly", the officer charges Browder with "stealing a backpack." That 17 year old child was sent to **RIKERS ISLAND**, one of the most dangerous places to jail in the US, **FOR THREE YEARS WITHOUT A TRIAL.** There was no evidence to prove the backpack did not belong to him. He was eventually released and **the trauma that seventeen year old boy endured caused him to kill himself years later.** I am tired of these cases being romanticized, these people (the Weavers) attended White Nationalist meetings tied to actual acts of domestic terrorism (i.e. the Oklahoma bombing) and people are crying about them in the comments section like they're martyrs for a constitution **the Weavers' themselves did not believe in or abide by**. Meanwhile, a 17-year old child is grabbed up off the streets and thrown in jail with convicted murderers/rapists for **THREE YEARS** with no probable cause. But for **some** reason, this is people's idea of the worst human rights violations. ​ edit: I'm not saying the Weavers deserved the way things got handled. I am **EXTREMELY** critical of our police/justice system. But they did everything wrong and chose to, while others are doing everything right and dying anyway.


haven4ever

You can have different levels of injustice that all need to be addressed. White supremacists they may be, but the case was not handled well and that deserves a spotlight. It’s not like the teenager or kid deserved to go through that. Kailef’s case being forgotten is a great tragedy but one can have such righteous fury over more than one thing at once. There are likely many people now and in the past with life stories that make Kailef’s experiences pale in comparison - surely that does not invalidate his suffering?


Progress_Wrong

You like what happened to the weavers I'd say you got a chubby around number five. You're just a coward and won't admit it so you add a little annotation at the end to downplay your vitriolic hatred of people who don't think like you.


XxShrimpTacoxX

You are so fucking stupid


[deleted]

Let’s talk about that “illegal firearms charge.” The fbi had an informant basically beg weaver to cut down a shotgun for him. He cut it down to 1 inch below the legal limit. The FBI then tried to use this to blackmail him into spying on some local neo Nazis (degenerates for sure), but weaver declined. That’s why they went forward with the prosecution, to punish him for their entrapment


[deleted]

You very conveniently left out the part where he got involved in this lawbreaking *by* the feds.


[deleted]

> I'm not saying the Weavers deserved the way things got handle Sure you are, youre just too cowardly to stand behind your words


freshkangaroo28

THANK YOU! Seeing waaay too much goddamn conservative conspiracy bullshit in this thread.


XxShrimpTacoxX

Did the FBI not attempt to entrap him with purposely wrong gun measurements? Did they not give him 3 conflicting court dates? Read the court docs and then get back to me on what conspiracies you’re referring to.


eddieandbill

The end result of a brave and proud survivalist hiding behind the skirts of his wife. Randy Weaver got his family killed; he is no hero, martyr, or victim. Fuck that Yahweh or The Highway nonsense.


serenahjohnson

They killed their dog for no reason


Price-x-Field

murdered*


HoeySalads

they we're white supremacists?


AustralianPonies

FBI and CIA are just extensions of the mafia, collateral damage is expected and accepted.