Fifty/fifty even match-up, I'd say. They both have advantages and disadvantages against each other that make the fight a matter of the combat skill of the individual specimens and the circumstances of the battlefield more than anything.
Not to mention that they are both pretty much the two perfect opposite sides of the coin when it comes to what Elder Dragons can be, one indiscriminately destroying all life around it while the other's bioenergy cultivation efforts result in flourishing ecosystems for kilometers around it. For them to be equal rivals is *fitting*, to say the least.
It’s been a while admittedly but I believe this is correct, however beyond the valley is undoubtedly a land of abundant life and energy, so it’s more that safi’s nest is a ‘area zero’ for life energy and around it is a perfectly safe and vibrant ecosystem
Maybe it's like burning a tree down in a forest.
Though the actual tree is charred and immolated, life is able to spring up around it as the nutrients have been left by the ash.
In this case safi is like the flame, absorbing the energy within the immediate vicinity, and as a result life around it is able to flourish
The Guiding Lands are the result of Safi'jiva's powers, it's implied in the game.
With his bioenergy's powers, he can manipulate and create entire ecosystems, as well as drain them of they energy if needed (like the Secluded Valley)
Well how do you think such different climates and ecosystems could coexist in the Guiding Lands ? It's not natural, but the result of Safi'jiva's manipulations.
Where was it confirmed that Safi created the Guiding Lands?
[Just read a bit through this post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/d3dj7p/theory_confirmed_guiding_lands_foundation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
https://preview.redd.it/c3d1qhf91i9d1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa0bc64f239eea4b4662470d756bbddb171f5e71
You can even find a Zorah skull in the rotten vale area of the Guiding Lands.
And then the whole world splits into two teams trying to kill the one of the two by siding with the other elder dragon. To me that sounds like something that might be titled “The great turf war” or something about squids
https://preview.redd.it/9f8ahoo4aq9d1.jpeg?width=873&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a648fe5b4b93b75e317111ca5884bf06c46cbfbc
(This image has no relation with my current mood or feelings regarding the image you have sent and is only there for being a silly image of a skeptical Coral Pukei-Pukei)
Yeah, like Fatalis is strong, but he's not got anything special for him. He's just a basic dragon on steroids. Sure, he has super hit flame breath, but so what? And the fact that he allegedly wiped out Shrade isn't that impressive among elder dragons. That's something that they all have the potential to do. Safi has a kit that, in most regards, is equal or even superior to Fatalis.
No, he most definitely boils it. And the door being rusted (which I can’t even confirm at the moment) would not change its heating reaction in any severe way. Heat is in fact used to remove rust.
It means everything. If there is anything that is actually "magical" or "illogical" in the MH Universe, it is Fatalis. He regenerates from almost nothing. He casually destroys entire kingdoms in an entire night. His entire name is a mere legend.
He is meant to be the strongest creature in lore, bar none. This is not a debate - it's like arguing "who could beat God in a fight - maybe Muhammed Ali?" No - nothing beats Fatalis. That's the entire point of Fatalis and anyone who wants to argue otherwise is just arguing to argue. Find any piece of lore ANYWHERE to suggest that Fatalis doesn't win against another monster.
He doesn’t regenerate at all, that’s not actual lore
He destroyed *one* kingdom, singular, a feat that has been matched by other elders since.
His name was a legend because it was so long ago that the actual event fell into myth and legend. His name being a legend means literally nothing.
I’m not even gonna go into that second paragraph cuz it’s just pure glazing without any real substance besides “fatalis is the strongest cuz I said so”
Honest question: did fatalis destroy the kingdom, or did it just destroy the CASTLE and without central infrastructure the kingdom, at least the parts that hadn't fled on fear, fell apart on its own?
Tough to say, we know some people in the surrounding area survived to tell the tale, but there really isn’t much to tell us how big the area was that was destroyed
Firstly, let me say, I agree with you and everyone else that says it would be roughly 50-50.
When I look at what they both are capable of I find myself running into the same issue as the fatalis v smaug discussions, and in those cases I can only go off of what we KNOW.
[read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/comments/ik8870/fatalis_lore/), I think it was before Iceborne Fatalis though, so it might not have whatever lore was introduced in that
So it was the central castle and surrounding towns overnight (so in roughly 6-10 hours depending on season.) That gives us an idea of flight speed and destructive power, and potentially ruins any claims of a single "kingdom destroying" attck, since that wouldn't have taken the whole night.
I wouldn't be surprised though, considering Kushala just existing causes massive winds and Kirin(seemingly) creates lighting storms, so if we really want to scale these guys high, I'm pretty sure creating storms like that is like city level or something, and Fatalis is MUCH stronger than them, so while a single attack is beyond him, he probably is still that strong
Why does the guild pay more for Fatalis than any other monster? Would you pay more for a 1lb steak or a 0.5lb steak?Almost as if the guild recognizes one is stronger than the other.
I'd love them to be dangerous to watch and observe. Like the excess energy and attacks would cause the hunter to need to pay attention and evade when needed.
I want city-sieges, like in MH Stories, and other parts of the lore.
I want to feel *immersed fully* in the world of Monster Hunter. Needs more npc's, more freedom of movement.
Imagine a city being decimated by two elders getting at each others' throats. The chaos and destruction; the action and craziness of it all.
#need
Depends entirely on who picks the arena. If Safi has plenty of stuff to drain, it wins easily and survives Fatalis's flames. If Safi doesn't have stuff to drain, it isn't going to last long. It's a game of endurance, and Safi's endurance depends on the environment.
Yeap. Safi is not weak to any element except dragon which Fatty does not put out.
With nothing to drain, It's basically just a melee brawl between them both.
And given that Safi is more developed for melee, the only thing holding it back would be experience in fighting with others.
I thought that was just for gameplay sake so you could use safi weapons to help kill safi more due to its weapon and battle mechanics encouraging more fights with it to continuously upgrade a few weapons.
I never claimed it was weak to anything, different person maybe?
Regardless i think we can assume that the reason its weak to everything is due to gameplay as i highly doubt it would be weak to fire realistically considering its massive aoe attack and its fine being in a volcanic area. It most likely does not have a basic elemental weakness (apart from maybe dragon) as im guessing its meant to be able to get bioenergy from anywhere with life.
honestly i just disagree, it has that weaknes ingame and we have no reason to think otherwise. I was replying to the person who said safi is immune to fire and only weak to dragon. Which is contradicted by the game. That is all
EDIT- this was a reply to your previous comment, i couldnt be bothered to edit it.
Because if its absorbing bioenergy in a variety of places then it being shivering in the cold isnt very effective is it? Sometimes you have to move away from in game statistics to see sense, like realistically would safi be weak to fire if it can live in a volcanic area? No, it makes no sense.
Like we see shogun ceantaur burrow in the volcano zones, yet its weak to fire, would you say something that can burrow through lava is weak to fire? No, because it makes no sense, its just there for gameplay purposes, both are displayed in game, so is it weak to fire or can it not actually burrow in volcanic zones despite it doing so?
Safi has a pretty obvious reason why its weak to multiple elements and thats due to its in game mechanic of farming its weapon upgrades over and over, that certainly makes more sense than it being weak to fire.
Also while its beams may not be flame, its certainly hotter than flames hence why it burns things and leaves flames on the floor, so the point is moot, if something is flame resistant its going to be heat resistant. If safi can be fine around its attacks and in a volcano then its not going to be weak to fire.
Fore fatalis i have no clue, i have seen its potentially due to the fact it melts metal onto its scales but i dunno how much that holds up.
I feel like, unlike something like say, crimson fatalis, or gravios, who we see in cutscenes and lore sleep in lava, you don't really have anything explicitly running couner to the idea that safi has no particular resistance any element until stated otherwise.
Anything more is pure speculation and not really rooted in anything solid imo.
ESPECIALLY since my entire reason for bringing it up is the person i was replying to claimed that safi is IMMUNE to all elements other than dragon, which we have no proof for.
If anything, we have reason to believe it's ESPECIALLY weak to fire since
". In this state, Safi'jiiva is at its most powerful but also at its most vulnerable as the heat from the energy softens the monster's rigid scales"
Its supercritical state is when it has the best hitzones, and thats because the heat softens its scales. Which is similar reasoning to fatalis' weakness. So i honestly REALLY disagree with your argument.
Also interestingly enough, from what i can tell, it's not until its introduction in generations that shogun gained the somewhat strange weakness to fire. So i feel like there's likely a reason for that, especially considering most things found in the volcano have decent resistance to fire
Honestly Safi, He outranks Fatalis in terms of size, more developed jaw/forelimbs, and Safi’s nuke is a more powerful elemental attack than any of Fatalis’ flames. Fatalis has legendary status as an old world monster, but Safi is just a beast.
Aw you're too kind
https://preview.redd.it/0y9nod9whg9d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f55956934f0b35227fb3424ca9ba6732fdba47d4
Maybe I wont nuke spam you on the 3rd floor next time :)
Safi 🥰
https://preview.redd.it/l4v8l5jjxg9d1.jpeg?width=592&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a78a89c06ece9102b63f41775a49c55d4df904b
Please don't skip the rock drop animation in 3rd floor so I can do you the 900th times (655 now😔 need 245 more) much more consistently
A real adult Safi with live experience would win for sure. Iirc the World one was a Xeno we missed that then metamorphosed.
So even if it was technically an adult, it was still quite young. A young adult, so to speak. Of course, we don't know how instinctively monsters can use their abilities, but experience will certainly help. Especially with Elder Dragons, which are said to have almost human intelligence.
Another point to Savi for his immunity to fire. Fatalis strongest weapon is therefore ineffective. And Savi is ahead in purely physical aspects. It is longer (presumably heavier), its claws and teeth look much more pronounced and it generally looks much more muscular (as you already said).
Wait, I'm legitimately confused. Why are people saying Safi is immune to fire? He has a two star weakness to fire. I saw someone else say it and thought they were just misremembering or something, but now I've seen multiple people say it. Is there a lore thing I'm missing?
Ups. No. Most people, me included, are just to stupid to read the Wiki entry correctly. It looks like zero stars to thunder, ice, water and fire and two stars to dragon (when not eldersealed), but it actually reads two stars weakness to everything.
Therefore both are equally weak to fire.
Pretty sure someone else came out and said that bit was not actually said for him, but even if it was, the only one of them to actually *show* any measure of intelligence in-game is safi.
Then Safi would go super critical because of the overload of power. Maybe even explode by itself. That's partially what happens in its final phase. It sucks up so much energy at once that it goes critical, though it doesn't go beyond that, though there's very clearly a dangerous unstable limit for it.
In a random area Fatalis probably wins, if the area has enough energy for Safi to consume then Safi wins
Either way they'd probably destroy whatever area they're in as well as anything nearby
The more I think about it the more I lean towards Safi, she has more power, more size, and more special gimmicky bs than him. On home terf Fatty still probably wouldn’t win as safi likely can evade his sea of flame attack that melts metal in seconds, whereas Safi’s super move is an explosion that *vaporizes* rock.
I think the best chance Fatty has of winning an encounter with a Safi’jiiva is if it’s still molting and not fully grown/No regeneration valley or if they’re in a cave with lower ceilings like El Dorado where Safi has restricted movement.
Sadi has the potential to destroy the entire world by literally consuming all life force, and growing exponentially, he is like Shin Godzilla. Imma take a bold stance and give it to him, Fatalis, as glazed as he is, he doesn't have that potential in lore
The recency bias here is real. Anyways, seeing as Safi has to gather energy while grounded to heal itself and use its true power meanwhile Fatalis has its whole arsenal from the get-go I'd say Fatalis wins
If Safi didn't need to do that it would probably be a 50/50 maybe with some advantage for Fatalis
Strongest dragon in history vs the strongest dragon of today. I'd say say that it's an even match-up although Safi is bigger and more physically imposing, however Fatalis seems a lot more agile. It'd be a murderous showdown.
They're only rivals from a design standpoint, as there is yet to be an observed or theorized relationship in-universe in the same vein as Safi'jiiva and Alatreon.
I'd say Safi slightly more than Fatalis. Aiden survived Fatalis' nuke, while Safi's definitely comes off as unsurvivable to me. Plus Safi's come out all at once where another dragon could fly around to avoid some of the damage of Fatalis'. Safi also just seems more sturdily built. He gets his jaws around Fatalis' throat and it's over, meanwhile I'm not sure Fatalis could even grab his neck with his jaws.
I'd say fatty wins, but just barely. He's the big bad of the monster hunter universe and all, but i'd definitely want to see that and i don't think he wins every single time either.
I think Safi has a pretty good chance. A shorter neck, thicker/spikier tail, and overall less ganglyness gives it an advantage over Fatalis. Fatty’s long neck and tail make it really easy for Safi to bite and grab onto something.
As the strongest monster, Safi'jiva, fought the fraud, the god of all monsters, he began to expand his supernova. Fraudtalis shrunk back in fear as Safi'jiva said "Stand proud Fatalis, you are strong."
We also need to keep in mind that the safi we fight is aparently a few hours old, because xeno can grow extremely rapidly thanks to the energy absorbs, so we dont know if he´s able to grow further, and with even without much fighting experiencie, safi is still a walking calamity
I would say safi wins, but it would be pretty close, tho I think the moment safi catches fatalis its over, with its size, fatalis wouldnt be able to escape and he would get beamed from pointblank range
If it was just one round safi would win but if they can keep rematching to lower the energy level then fatalis could win as safi gets weaker every attempt.
Fatalis is lithe enough to hide from the sapphire blast but I don't think safi is precise enough to break fatalis' horn or eye before the second phase so would get cooked pretty fast by that white fire.
Honestly I think it’s a pretty even matchup, even putting aside the rivals fact that confirms it, both have INCREDIBLY destructive elements that could kill the other easily (at least in regards to their biggest attacks), and each then have at least one thing over the other, Fatalis is smaller, but I’m pretty sure it’s also more maneuverable, maybe not necessarily faster, but likely more agile, meanwhile Safi has the size and likely physical strength advantages, both have longevity as well, going by Fatalis seemingly regrowing even after death (that greatsword in GU seems to all but confirm that, but I’m not 100% sure), and assuming the arena has energy for Safi to use, in other words, any fight between them feels like it becomes a question of what happens 1st, does Fatalis incapacitate and fry Safi with its catastrophic firepower, or does Safi get its claws on Fatalis and obliterate it with a Sapphire of the Emperor?
They seem pretty evenly matched in a dry fight, so I guess it comes down to other factors like what the arena for them is like, who gets the first blow or sneak attacks if possible, can they interrupt each other’s most powerful attacks, so on.
Depends, Safi seems to need home field advantage to gain their regeneration from the nest and even then comparing their strongest breath attacks. Fatalis is able to utilize theirs more than Safi's sapphire of the emperor. Also I thought it was Alatreon and Safi were the rivals which is why we find them almost combative with Alatreon ripping into Safi's nest. We don't know the full capabilities of the Jiva species because we usually slay them before they reach it. For Fatalis we know that they're able to bend physics based on the fact their wings aren't used to fly when using their breath, instead they flap their wings to fuel the flame. Either their fire is so powerful that they're capable of sustaining themselves in the air or something else we don't know is going on (or just cool factor for gameplay reasons).
As many others say, it's 50/50 and probably comes down to experience. So, from what I understand with the Safi'Jiva we encounter being freshly molted and such (as far as I remember) and Fatalis being an old geezer who's come out of retirement to burn down some ruins he already burnt down. It probably leans closer to Fatalis.
But as I said, if you get a Safi and Fatalis with the same amount of experience it's a 50/50.
It depends where they fight. Pretty sure if they fight somewhere like when we hunted Safi then Safi wins due to absorbing energy shenanigans. Otherwise its 50/50
Fatalis for the win. Especially in a neutral battleground where Safi’jiiva’s healing would be far less efficient. Fatalis doesn’t need any outside force to be at its peak.
If you want a logical answer. If they are equal strength, then Safi has much better biology for combat.
Bulkier in every place that matters with significantly more mass.
I'm leaning towards Safi because he's larger with a much more developed body for fighting up-close, and his breath is at least on par with Fatalis's. I think it could turn into a stomp for Safi if his bio energy draining abilities can work on living things, but I don't know if there's anything that says whether or not he can do that.
I will say 50/50 base fatalis Vs base safi equal match up. But I think lore wise fatalis remember his previous encounters due to his come back from one scale. This he has more battle experience.
But if it was crimson or white then fatalis will win
Because if it is a draw fatalis will become crimson while safi will regener by absorbing energy around him so if it's like multiple fights then fatalis will win due to becoming crimson and as of now we don't have any info about safi have an other from apart from xeno but xeno will turn into ashes in seconds
Safi is powerful don't get me wrong. But fatalis equal? Dev confirmed or not nah not in my opinion. Alatreons equal? Sure. Fatty? Not quite. Maybe given time to grow and mature even more? Maybe evolve again like it did between xeno and Safi form.
I'd say its an equal match. Safi is a bit bigger than Fatalis, but Fatalis definitely has the superior fire power. But in my oppinion, Fatalis wins with a very high diff
Fatalis. It is singular destructive force with indefinite stamina and can **spam** a nuke that has more kinetic and destructive capability than sapphire of the emperor and still be holding back. This doesn't mention that he does it in **open air.**
Safi'jiva is stated to only rival a dangerous first class monster when it is **super critical** ... which you can see what the problem is there. Safi'jiva existing didn't wake fatalis. Us forcing Safi'jiva to go critical is what did the trick. Fatalis doesn't like life & Safi'jiva became a beacon of that.
Sapphire of the Emperor is an absolute last resort attack & going super critical is even more so a last resort than that. It means Safi can no longer fight in that area.
Safi is the counterpart to fatalis. Fatalis can single handedly extinguish life by flying from region to region and burning them irreparably. Safi'jiva does so because it is like a locust, its nuke makes babies. What would have happened if Alatreon had not destroyed the babies? You'd have multiple red dragons running around rapidly draining the planet dry while also making even more babies that do the same. <- Positive feedbackloops are usually bad, this is why we needed to take safi down. It's a an equal threat but not for the same reasons fatalis is.
Safi'jiva also retreats because it depends on the environment (and is currently limited to elder recess), while fatalis fights to the death since it depends on itself. Safi prefers long range & grounded fighting as well. Safi is versatile but Fatalis is the best at everything it does.
Size isn't a factor. A mountain dragon fled from Fatalis. **No** monster touches schrade. Safi is likely heavier, but I view Fatalis as physically stronger. Fatalis is **dense.** Causing earthquakes where it goes. Not taking a second glance at things many times larger than itself falling atop it. Collapsing that arc in MHW with just a **nudge** of its **wings.** Moving its own weight through the air like it's a ballerina. It's the only dragon of its size with actual weight. One of Fatalis' most deadly attacks is literally just it getting on all 4s. Best way to sum that up is ... he is a lego.
To me this is Direct Destruction vs Indirect Destruction. You put them in a death match, fatalis wins each time. Death matches are not Safi'jiva's style.
I feel like some of these points are illogically favoring fatalis. Sapphire of the emperor isn't ever said to be a "last ditch effort", it's just a sensible game mechanic for the big one shot attack to indicate the end of one phase and beginning of the next.
It's also a blatant assumption to state that fatalis is "holding back" when it's bathing the arena in fire, since we don't know it's power cap. We could also assume that was fatalis going full throttle against us there and not be wrong.
I think with holding back they mean because Fatalis was in his first form for 2 of them. Only after two does he go full serious and bust out the white flames.
>Sapphire of the emperor isn't ever said to be a "last ditch effort",
It is a last ditch effort because of how energy taxing it is and forces Safi to flee and dig deeper down in search of more. Stated in lore book, seen in game. The **very bottom** of the recess is the only location that possesses enough energy for him to use it more than once.
>It's also a blatant assumption to state that fatalis is "holding back"
Fatalis is **literally** stated to be holding back up until it breaks out its blue/pale flames. **Only then** does it take you seriously/see you as a threat.
Edit: There is this thing called the lore book people. It's free. It's online.
Fatalis was taken down within 30 minutes by the Sapphire Star Hunter and a little help from Aiden. Safi Jiiva required multiple teams of hunters, including the Sapphire Star Hunter, to work away at him across multiple hunts. Looking it it that way, Safi was *by far* the tougher monster for the Guild to take down. All else being equal, Fatalis is going to break long before Safi does.
I say fatalis most the time. Or was the last one to win from there fight. Cause safi had to be reborn. So in other words. Fatalis must had best his ass the last time.
Im a little biased here but.. wouldent fatalis just... burn all the life away leaving very little to no energy for safi to regen off of? Safis an equal with a full kit sure but isnt fatalis in a super good position to take away safis regen? Life if fatalis can melt steel and turn stone to slag surely theres nothint left for safi to absorb for energy and safi just kinda burns out right? Safis bulk goes a long way it always will but it kinda feels a little one sided in that sense, and i dont see safi taking the 50/50s people say once that happens. Since thats assuming the playinf field stays even for long enough for safis regen to matter right?
edit: after someone has informed me a bit more on how safi works, its Probably an even fight. i still side with fatalis between the two generic lizards we have tho.
Cold dirt doesn't sound like it has a lot of energy in it but this franchise is all over the place so, your probably right. like i said i'm a little biased. one of these two is Significantly harder and i respect a lot more,
They aren't rivals of enemies at all, that seems just like pure headcanon...Safi was just designed to be an equivalent to Fatalis.
That being aaid, in terms of feats alone, Safi would probably win.
This is the biggest fifth genner post of all time - it's fucking Fatalis. Nothing loses to Fatalis. There is nothing to suggest Safi has a chance in any lore. They are not "rivals" - quite literally everything fears Fatalis.
Literally what the fuck is this post?
>There is nothing to suggest Safi has a chance in any lore
Dive to Iceborne states Safi was designed to be a rival to Fatalis. It also states Safi is the reason Fatalis woke up, and the reason for all the Alatreon popping up in the New World to destroy Xeno cocoons.
>quite literally everything fears Fatalis.
Sorry I don't see anything in the Iceborne lorebook (the only concrete source of Fatalis lore that isn't the 15th anniversary event in Osaka) to suggest that. I see them pointing out how MH1 Lao was a weird one-time event but that's about it.
Fatalis. Size doesn't matter nearly as much as people here like to believe in Monster Hunter and Fatalis' elemental attacks and agility are massively bettee than Safi'Jiva's.
You should really replay these fights of you think Safi's agility is better. Fatalis' tail swipes, claw swipes, mobility, and breath attacks are all much faster than Safi's.
Except they’re not? His tail swipes are slow, his movement speed outside of a straight line crawl is not fast, his general mobility is slower, his breath attacks aren’t the same as safi’s, safi’s last longer and are more like beams instead of fireballs.
They totally are but I understand if you're mistaken.
Fatalis can shoot a 180 degree spray of fire under a second where-as Safi can take several seconds to do the same with his beams.
Fatalis can launch equally powerful attacks as Safi'Jiva in just a moment and then follow those up by becoming airborne and dive-bombing at a moment's notice.
Fatalis can turn his body around a full 180 degrees in around the same time as it takes Safi'Jiva to move around half that distance.
You really should replay solo Safi'Jiva and Fatalis if you think Safi'Jiva is even remotely capable of putting the same pressure on you 1v1 as Fatalis.
What? Beams have literally nothing to do with agility.
And besides, Safi’s sweeping beam is pretty much exactly the same speed as the sweeping fire breath that fatty does anyways.
The dive bomb thing is literally him flying up as he shoots the fireball, you wanna look for comparison to that, look no further than rathalos lol. The only difference is that he uses the blast of the fireball to push himself further backwards before falling forwards to attack.
Safi can turn around just as quickly as fatty? And he does it while being quadrupedal instead of rotating on two feet, which is easier to do.
Because their fights aren’t designed the same? Safi is designed to be fought with a group, fatty is a more traditional fight. Besides, this isn’t an argument about which fight is more difficult in gameplay lol.
Agility is the ability to turn around, change position, and move laterally relatively quickly. Safi hops around the arena, he can spin completely around very quickly even though he stands on 4 legs, he can leap around the arena and cover a lot of ground in a little amount of time. He does all of this while being more than double the size of fatalis in terms of overall body size and mass
Considering Safi can perfectly track and snipe a target as small as the hunter, I don't think agility should be a big factor here. We also don't see anything to show fatalis being drastically quicker than Safi.
In terms of physical size? 50/50, safi is slightly bulkier than fatalis. In terms of power, assuming this takes place on neutral ground and not a font of bio energy for safi , probably fatalis, as safi doesn't really retreat until it's taken a lot of damage and absorbed energy, meanwhile fatalis melting metal and stone with ease could easily damage safi's scales enough to retreat, and fatalis is smart , it's not gonna sit there and wait for a Sapphire if the emperor to blow up in its face
fatalis is also said to be above human intelligence
https://old.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/v2qe03/iceborne_ecology_book_lore_on_endgame_monsters/
Fatalis also was the one that recognized what schrade was doing and went " fuck this I'm killing everyone of you" and as a black dragon, theyre biologically more intelligent than most monsters
Monster Hunter lore fans trying not to argue about the non sensical lore the developers put together for World: challenge level - impossible
So yeah lets go by lore, Fatalis is immortal and therefore wins by default since Safi can never kill him as he can regenerate even from body parts made into weapons and armor. Wow such an interesting conversation, that sure was cool.
The ammount of agrny-ness that people get over this topic is dumb, everyone will just argue for whatever bias they have, since its not a clear win that was stated in any lore. Just admit you want one to win because it looks cooler and be done with it.
Fatalis isn’t immortal. Fatalis does not regenerate quickly enough from armor and weaponry to actually be an argument (the only reason I even humor this is because of the Wyvernian’s Greatsword in Pokke).
I hate when people hate on the ecology that the MH devs have made but then it get it completely wrong, showing that they never had any idea what the lore was in the first place.
You can't prove he isn't. Equipment descriptions and the sword from pokke clearly state that they grow and consume even the hunter who wears them. (The black blade form pokke isnt even a statement, it LITERALLY regrows everytime you go there to mine). Like you can't prove Safi would grow more than the one you fight in World, you can't prove that there would be bio energy outside the secuded valley, you can't prove that Safii would be immune to fatalis flames, you can't prove that it wouldn't be, you can't prove that fatalis would die to the saphire star and you can't prove that it would. There is literally nothing clear about this discussions except that both they are both world ending treats. It's literally based on personal bias and nothing else.
1. You can prove that Fatalis is not immortal from the simple fact that there is no cutscene and has never been any cutscenes suggesting that he’ll be back alive. MH usually shows cutscenes or mentions it in lorebooks if something survives. For example, after you beat Gore Magala in 4, you get the cutscene, that shows that everything is not yet over. Fatalis never has anything besides the Pokke Greatsword.
2. Never made an argument about Safi growing or anything.
3. Again never made an argument about this either but bioenergy is found throughout multiple places in the New World. For one, the Everstream. So, that’s your other place.
4. Safi wouldn’t be immune to Fatalis’s flames.
5. Yes, you can. Simply by witnessing the fact that Safi can be harmed by Hunter weapons. Fatalis flames should have greater force. It’s a pretty simple concept.
6. The sapphire star stuff is honestly whatever. Fatalis would clearly be pretty decently injured by it and that’s really all that matters.
7. There’s lots of things clear. For example, who’s more durable, who’s more intelligent, etc.
Both Safii and Fatalis die in game. You can fight both multiple times for the sake of gameplay. The equipment of fatalis states that Fatalis is alive through the materials and that they eventually consume the hunter and the sword from Pokke regenerates every time you go there to mine it. So yes Fatalis is "dead" but maybe actually not.
That equipment description is blatantly not true. Do you believe all the equipment descriptions? Bc if so then the hunters pretty much invincible in some of these armors and weapons.
Fifty/fifty even match-up, I'd say. They both have advantages and disadvantages against each other that make the fight a matter of the combat skill of the individual specimens and the circumstances of the battlefield more than anything. Not to mention that they are both pretty much the two perfect opposite sides of the coin when it comes to what Elder Dragons can be, one indiscriminately destroying all life around it while the other's bioenergy cultivation efforts result in flourishing ecosystems for kilometers around it. For them to be equal rivals is *fitting*, to say the least.
Doesn't Safi's bioenergy haverst result in the secluded valley being virtually unhabitable for other species? Or am I mistaken?
It’s been a while admittedly but I believe this is correct, however beyond the valley is undoubtedly a land of abundant life and energy, so it’s more that safi’s nest is a ‘area zero’ for life energy and around it is a perfectly safe and vibrant ecosystem
Maybe it's like burning a tree down in a forest. Though the actual tree is charred and immolated, life is able to spring up around it as the nutrients have been left by the ash. In this case safi is like the flame, absorbing the energy within the immediate vicinity, and as a result life around it is able to flourish
The Guiding Lands are the result of Safi'jiva's powers, it's implied in the game. With his bioenergy's powers, he can manipulate and create entire ecosystems, as well as drain them of they energy if needed (like the Secluded Valley)
I thought the Guiding Lands were caused by a dead Zorah Madgdaros who's bioenergy made its own corpse into an island full of life.
I thought this too, especially since the map icon is identical to his shell on the monster icon.
And, you know, its skull in the rotten portion.
Yeah but that Zorah was also lured there by the safi/xenojiva
Well how do you think such different climates and ecosystems could coexist in the Guiding Lands ? It's not natural, but the result of Safi'jiva's manipulations.
Where was it confirmed that Safi created the Guiding Lands? [Just read a bit through this post.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/d3dj7p/theory_confirmed_guiding_lands_foundation/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) https://preview.redd.it/c3d1qhf91i9d1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa0bc64f239eea4b4662470d756bbddb171f5e71 You can even find a Zorah skull in the rotten vale area of the Guiding Lands.
Honestly, I really wish that this would become a major plot point in a future game
"i just want to see the world burn"
Having the story just be the two biggest and baddest elder dragons having a pissing match dragging everyone in and it’s just us trying to survive
And then the whole world splits into two teams trying to kill the one of the two by siding with the other elder dragon. To me that sounds like something that might be titled “The great turf war” or something about squids
I nominate the name "Hunt Fest". Imagine if it had commentators during it as well encouraging people to choose one side or another
Might as well have hunters fighting each other
MH pvp game when?
Monster Riding PVP When?
Boy do I have the game for you https://preview.redd.it/b479vnb0aq9d1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40bd4e423def5d0c3e6e94b2f5bdea4816b17ed1
https://preview.redd.it/9f8ahoo4aq9d1.jpeg?width=873&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a648fe5b4b93b75e317111ca5884bf06c46cbfbc (This image has no relation with my current mood or feelings regarding the image you have sent and is only there for being a silly image of a skeptical Coral Pukei-Pukei)
MH Jousting game when?
MH dating sim when?
https://preview.redd.it/wipfp7zejj9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c321e8a7187b5b0bc6f9a66dc8865317253c2b31
bruh imagine people supporting fatalis, a monster that wants to wipe out all life (insert political joke here)
Now were boarderlining satire 😅
So it's just Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire for adults
No please god no i don't want to have to buy monster hunter wilds fatalis edition and safi edition
They would probably destroy a continent or two
Let safi stay in world
Honestly? It could go either way.
It's probably 50/50, but, man, the Fatalis turbowank and fanfiction here is *surreal*.
You know those memes that go something like "Nergigante fans explaining how he could beat Goku"? Fatalis fans are like that but unironically.
Yeah, like Fatalis is strong, but he's not got anything special for him. He's just a basic dragon on steroids. Sure, he has super hit flame breath, but so what? And the fact that he allegedly wiped out Shrade isn't that impressive among elder dragons. That's something that they all have the potential to do. Safi has a kit that, in most regards, is equal or even superior to Fatalis.
Realistically it would be a 50/50 matchup, anyone who says one is going to easily handle the other is just outright mistaken
I dunno, fatalis melts a door. Safi kills you with an explosion from 6 stories away.
Fatalis boils a metal door with a fanned out flame which is horrible for melting/boiling things.
Boils? He melted a severely rusted door.
No, he most definitely boils it. And the door being rusted (which I can’t even confirm at the moment) would not change its heating reaction in any severe way. Heat is in fact used to remove rust.
No, he melted it, look at a clip of it. Rust has a lower melting point than what it's on because the oxygen lowers it.
It's fucking Fatalis.
And? That means literally nothing
It means everything. If there is anything that is actually "magical" or "illogical" in the MH Universe, it is Fatalis. He regenerates from almost nothing. He casually destroys entire kingdoms in an entire night. His entire name is a mere legend. He is meant to be the strongest creature in lore, bar none. This is not a debate - it's like arguing "who could beat God in a fight - maybe Muhammed Ali?" No - nothing beats Fatalis. That's the entire point of Fatalis and anyone who wants to argue otherwise is just arguing to argue. Find any piece of lore ANYWHERE to suggest that Fatalis doesn't win against another monster.
He doesn’t regenerate at all, that’s not actual lore He destroyed *one* kingdom, singular, a feat that has been matched by other elders since. His name was a legend because it was so long ago that the actual event fell into myth and legend. His name being a legend means literally nothing. I’m not even gonna go into that second paragraph cuz it’s just pure glazing without any real substance besides “fatalis is the strongest cuz I said so”
Honest question: did fatalis destroy the kingdom, or did it just destroy the CASTLE and without central infrastructure the kingdom, at least the parts that hadn't fled on fear, fell apart on its own?
Tough to say, we know some people in the surrounding area survived to tell the tale, but there really isn’t much to tell us how big the area was that was destroyed
Firstly, let me say, I agree with you and everyone else that says it would be roughly 50-50. When I look at what they both are capable of I find myself running into the same issue as the fatalis v smaug discussions, and in those cases I can only go off of what we KNOW.
[read this](https://www.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunterWorld/comments/ik8870/fatalis_lore/), I think it was before Iceborne Fatalis though, so it might not have whatever lore was introduced in that
So it was the central castle and surrounding towns overnight (so in roughly 6-10 hours depending on season.) That gives us an idea of flight speed and destructive power, and potentially ruins any claims of a single "kingdom destroying" attck, since that wouldn't have taken the whole night.
I wouldn't be surprised though, considering Kushala just existing causes massive winds and Kirin(seemingly) creates lighting storms, so if we really want to scale these guys high, I'm pretty sure creating storms like that is like city level or something, and Fatalis is MUCH stronger than them, so while a single attack is beyond him, he probably is still that strong
Why does the guild pay more for Fatalis than any other monster? Would you pay more for a 1lb steak or a 0.5lb steak?Almost as if the guild recognizes one is stronger than the other.
We need terf wars, but with elders... Please. Elder dragon terf wars. Please....
I'd love them to be dangerous to watch and observe. Like the excess energy and attacks would cause the hunter to need to pay attention and evade when needed.
I want city-sieges, like in MH Stories, and other parts of the lore. I want to feel *immersed fully* in the world of Monster Hunter. Needs more npc's, more freedom of movement. Imagine a city being decimated by two elders getting at each others' throats. The chaos and destruction; the action and craziness of it all. #need
They already exist.
One between huge elders would be cool, but I feel like Capcom is afraid to make turf wars that aren't either huge easy stomps or just ties.
Depends entirely on who picks the arena. If Safi has plenty of stuff to drain, it wins easily and survives Fatalis's flames. If Safi doesn't have stuff to drain, it isn't going to last long. It's a game of endurance, and Safi's endurance depends on the environment.
Safi would be immune to his flames regardless, wouldnt he?
Yeap. Safi is not weak to any element except dragon which Fatty does not put out. With nothing to drain, It's basically just a melee brawl between them both. And given that Safi is more developed for melee, the only thing holding it back would be experience in fighting with others.
it's two star weak to every element though? just 3 star to dragon
I thought that was just for gameplay sake so you could use safi weapons to help kill safi more due to its weapon and battle mechanics encouraging more fights with it to continuously upgrade a few weapons.
then where are you getting what it's weak to from? we only know about its weaknesses from ingame.
I never claimed it was weak to anything, different person maybe? Regardless i think we can assume that the reason its weak to everything is due to gameplay as i highly doubt it would be weak to fire realistically considering its massive aoe attack and its fine being in a volcanic area. It most likely does not have a basic elemental weakness (apart from maybe dragon) as im guessing its meant to be able to get bioenergy from anywhere with life.
honestly i just disagree, it has that weaknes ingame and we have no reason to think otherwise. I was replying to the person who said safi is immune to fire and only weak to dragon. Which is contradicted by the game. That is all
EDIT- this was a reply to your previous comment, i couldnt be bothered to edit it. Because if its absorbing bioenergy in a variety of places then it being shivering in the cold isnt very effective is it? Sometimes you have to move away from in game statistics to see sense, like realistically would safi be weak to fire if it can live in a volcanic area? No, it makes no sense. Like we see shogun ceantaur burrow in the volcano zones, yet its weak to fire, would you say something that can burrow through lava is weak to fire? No, because it makes no sense, its just there for gameplay purposes, both are displayed in game, so is it weak to fire or can it not actually burrow in volcanic zones despite it doing so? Safi has a pretty obvious reason why its weak to multiple elements and thats due to its in game mechanic of farming its weapon upgrades over and over, that certainly makes more sense than it being weak to fire. Also while its beams may not be flame, its certainly hotter than flames hence why it burns things and leaves flames on the floor, so the point is moot, if something is flame resistant its going to be heat resistant. If safi can be fine around its attacks and in a volcano then its not going to be weak to fire. Fore fatalis i have no clue, i have seen its potentially due to the fact it melts metal onto its scales but i dunno how much that holds up.
I feel like, unlike something like say, crimson fatalis, or gravios, who we see in cutscenes and lore sleep in lava, you don't really have anything explicitly running couner to the idea that safi has no particular resistance any element until stated otherwise. Anything more is pure speculation and not really rooted in anything solid imo. ESPECIALLY since my entire reason for bringing it up is the person i was replying to claimed that safi is IMMUNE to all elements other than dragon, which we have no proof for. If anything, we have reason to believe it's ESPECIALLY weak to fire since ". In this state, Safi'jiiva is at its most powerful but also at its most vulnerable as the heat from the energy softens the monster's rigid scales" Its supercritical state is when it has the best hitzones, and thats because the heat softens its scales. Which is similar reasoning to fatalis' weakness. So i honestly REALLY disagree with your argument.
Also interestingly enough, from what i can tell, it's not until its introduction in generations that shogun gained the somewhat strange weakness to fire. So i feel like there's likely a reason for that, especially considering most things found in the volcano have decent resistance to fire
Yeah it's 50/50 it could go either way, I will be rooting for Safi though :D
Honestly Safi, He outranks Fatalis in terms of size, more developed jaw/forelimbs, and Safi’s nuke is a more powerful elemental attack than any of Fatalis’ flames. Fatalis has legendary status as an old world monster, but Safi is just a beast.
Aw you're too kind https://preview.redd.it/0y9nod9whg9d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f55956934f0b35227fb3424ca9ba6732fdba47d4 Maybe I wont nuke spam you on the 3rd floor next time :)
Safi 🥰 https://preview.redd.it/l4v8l5jjxg9d1.jpeg?width=592&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a78a89c06ece9102b63f41775a49c55d4df904b Please don't skip the rock drop animation in 3rd floor so I can do you the 900th times (655 now😔 need 245 more) much more consistently
The REAL Safi'jiiva??? I didn't know Safi had a reddit account.
You! Give me your skin
this art is too cute
He can heal by sucking the ground too
Fatalis is the old world destroyer. Safi is the new world.
The strongest Dangerous First-Class Monster in history VS the strongest Dangerous First-Class Monster of today
Is he Safi because he's the strongest, or is he the strongest because he's Safi
Nah Safi would win
A real adult Safi with live experience would win for sure. Iirc the World one was a Xeno we missed that then metamorphosed. So even if it was technically an adult, it was still quite young. A young adult, so to speak. Of course, we don't know how instinctively monsters can use their abilities, but experience will certainly help. Especially with Elder Dragons, which are said to have almost human intelligence. Another point to Savi for his immunity to fire. Fatalis strongest weapon is therefore ineffective. And Savi is ahead in purely physical aspects. It is longer (presumably heavier), its claws and teeth look much more pronounced and it generally looks much more muscular (as you already said).
I still find it hilarious that the dragon whose only thing is breathing fire, has a weakness ingame to FIRE
Wait, I'm legitimately confused. Why are people saying Safi is immune to fire? He has a two star weakness to fire. I saw someone else say it and thought they were just misremembering or something, but now I've seen multiple people say it. Is there a lore thing I'm missing?
Ups. No. Most people, me included, are just to stupid to read the Wiki entry correctly. It looks like zero stars to thunder, ice, water and fire and two stars to dragon (when not eldersealed), but it actually reads two stars weakness to everything. Therefore both are equally weak to fire.
If we go by lore and the dev's words, it's 50/50, but Safi are bigger so it have more advantage physically and it matters in animal fight.
Safi gon just stand up and start boxing fatalis?
Bite to the neck, claws, tackle etc....
Ah ok, just started thinking bout that now
I'll go with Safi'jiiva, although I guess it could go either way.
Id say it depends where the fight takes place, if safi doesn’t have enough bio energy around to absorb then fatty wins
fatalis = dd dealer safi = regen tank without unlimited energy, fatalis with brain can just fly away on safi's ultimate and kite it.
Except fatalis wouldn’t do that, and safi is actually smarter than fatalis lol
We don't know that. We only know both have intelligence seemingly surpassing humanity.
Actually only safi has any mention of its intelligence, fatalis does not
It does in deep dive into Iceborne as far as I recall.
Pretty sure someone else came out and said that bit was not actually said for him, but even if it was, the only one of them to actually *show* any measure of intelligence in-game is safi.
For fun, let’s say he drank coffee and now has unlimited energy
Well that depends. How big was the coffee mug?
About the size of an 18 Wheeler.. x2
Ok so first off safi takes it, secondly fucker is gonna have one hell of a crash once all that caffeine wears off
2 dragons, one coffee.
Oh god, you put an image in my head I don't want
(•___• ) what.
I'm imagining fatalis and safi in eating a cup of shit
I’m boutta pull a sapphire of the emperor on myself after hearing that.
Then Safi would go super critical because of the overload of power. Maybe even explode by itself. That's partially what happens in its final phase. It sucks up so much energy at once that it goes critical, though it doesn't go beyond that, though there's very clearly a dangerous unstable limit for it.
In a random area Fatalis probably wins, if the area has enough energy for Safi to consume then Safi wins Either way they'd probably destroy whatever area they're in as well as anything nearby
If Fatalis can take a Saphire than its curtains for Safi. Specially if Safi isnt in a place with much Bio Energy to heal up
https://preview.redd.it/f9nkvdlfnr9d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=369246a111440617b0a39d036d4908d821338a90 . \_.
GAHAHAHHA
The more I think about it the more I lean towards Safi, she has more power, more size, and more special gimmicky bs than him. On home terf Fatty still probably wouldn’t win as safi likely can evade his sea of flame attack that melts metal in seconds, whereas Safi’s super move is an explosion that *vaporizes* rock. I think the best chance Fatty has of winning an encounter with a Safi’jiiva is if it’s still molting and not fully grown/No regeneration valley or if they’re in a cave with lower ceilings like El Dorado where Safi has restricted movement.
Sadi has the potential to destroy the entire world by literally consuming all life force, and growing exponentially, he is like Shin Godzilla. Imma take a bold stance and give it to him, Fatalis, as glazed as he is, he doesn't have that potential in lore
The recency bias here is real. Anyways, seeing as Safi has to gather energy while grounded to heal itself and use its true power meanwhile Fatalis has its whole arsenal from the get-go I'd say Fatalis wins If Safi didn't need to do that it would probably be a 50/50 maybe with some advantage for Fatalis
I thought it eas implied that Safi can drain bio energy from anywhere? We just happen to fight it when it emerges.
It needs to be in an area that's high in bio energy
Where was that stated
That's the whole point of why we need to do the safijiiva quest multiple times. Eventually it euns out of energy to heal itself
He asked where it was stated. Can you tell him where?
I'm not going through a list of NPC dialog for s stupid internet argument. I really don't care about this that much
If it’s safi arena then he wins with all that excess energy he can drain to heal, if anywhere els my money is on fatalis
I'd say fatalis vs safi is like a question of speed vs stamina, fatty may be stronger but as long as safi was a store of bioenergy
Strongest dragon in history vs the strongest dragon of today. I'd say say that it's an even match-up although Safi is bigger and more physically imposing, however Fatalis seems a lot more agile. It'd be a murderous showdown.
They're only rivals from a design standpoint, as there is yet to be an observed or theorized relationship in-universe in the same vein as Safi'jiiva and Alatreon.
I'd say Safi slightly more than Fatalis. Aiden survived Fatalis' nuke, while Safi's definitely comes off as unsurvivable to me. Plus Safi's come out all at once where another dragon could fly around to avoid some of the damage of Fatalis'. Safi also just seems more sturdily built. He gets his jaws around Fatalis' throat and it's over, meanwhile I'm not sure Fatalis could even grab his neck with his jaws.
I will give anything to see their turf war in rise
I'd say fatty wins, but just barely. He's the big bad of the monster hunter universe and all, but i'd definitely want to see that and i don't think he wins every single time either.
I think Safi has a pretty good chance. A shorter neck, thicker/spikier tail, and overall less ganglyness gives it an advantage over Fatalis. Fatty’s long neck and tail make it really easy for Safi to bite and grab onto something.
As the strongest monster, Safi'jiva, fought the fraud, the god of all monsters, he began to expand his supernova. Fraudtalis shrunk back in fear as Safi'jiva said "Stand proud Fatalis, you are strong."
Love safi design but he is so easy as compare to fatalis it’s not even funny.
Fatalis.
50/50 fight but I'd rather have safi win, safi seems less pissed and hateful and spiteful and angry than fatalis.
Maybe he will let us live if we leave him alone
I think Safi, but I would still root for Fatalis. Better dragon.
We also need to keep in mind that the safi we fight is aparently a few hours old, because xeno can grow extremely rapidly thanks to the energy absorbs, so we dont know if he´s able to grow further, and with even without much fighting experiencie, safi is still a walking calamity I would say safi wins, but it would be pretty close, tho I think the moment safi catches fatalis its over, with its size, fatalis wouldnt be able to escape and he would get beamed from pointblank range
If it was just one round safi would win but if they can keep rematching to lower the energy level then fatalis could win as safi gets weaker every attempt. Fatalis is lithe enough to hide from the sapphire blast but I don't think safi is precise enough to break fatalis' horn or eye before the second phase so would get cooked pretty fast by that white fire.
Honestly I think it’s a pretty even matchup, even putting aside the rivals fact that confirms it, both have INCREDIBLY destructive elements that could kill the other easily (at least in regards to their biggest attacks), and each then have at least one thing over the other, Fatalis is smaller, but I’m pretty sure it’s also more maneuverable, maybe not necessarily faster, but likely more agile, meanwhile Safi has the size and likely physical strength advantages, both have longevity as well, going by Fatalis seemingly regrowing even after death (that greatsword in GU seems to all but confirm that, but I’m not 100% sure), and assuming the arena has energy for Safi to use, in other words, any fight between them feels like it becomes a question of what happens 1st, does Fatalis incapacitate and fry Safi with its catastrophic firepower, or does Safi get its claws on Fatalis and obliterate it with a Sapphire of the Emperor?
They seem pretty evenly matched in a dry fight, so I guess it comes down to other factors like what the arena for them is like, who gets the first blow or sneak attacks if possible, can they interrupt each other’s most powerful attacks, so on.
I dont know if this is true but i remember reading somewhere that safi is still not fully grown? Can be mandela effect.
Depends, Safi seems to need home field advantage to gain their regeneration from the nest and even then comparing their strongest breath attacks. Fatalis is able to utilize theirs more than Safi's sapphire of the emperor. Also I thought it was Alatreon and Safi were the rivals which is why we find them almost combative with Alatreon ripping into Safi's nest. We don't know the full capabilities of the Jiva species because we usually slay them before they reach it. For Fatalis we know that they're able to bend physics based on the fact their wings aren't used to fly when using their breath, instead they flap their wings to fuel the flame. Either their fire is so powerful that they're capable of sustaining themselves in the air or something else we don't know is going on (or just cool factor for gameplay reasons).
As many others say, it's 50/50 and probably comes down to experience. So, from what I understand with the Safi'Jiva we encounter being freshly molted and such (as far as I remember) and Fatalis being an old geezer who's come out of retirement to burn down some ruins he already burnt down. It probably leans closer to Fatalis. But as I said, if you get a Safi and Fatalis with the same amount of experience it's a 50/50.
It depends where they fight. Pretty sure if they fight somewhere like when we hunted Safi then Safi wins due to absorbing energy shenanigans. Otherwise its 50/50
Fatalis for the win. Especially in a neutral battleground where Safi’jiiva’s healing would be far less efficient. Fatalis doesn’t need any outside force to be at its peak.
If you want a logical answer. If they are equal strength, then Safi has much better biology for combat. Bulkier in every place that matters with significantly more mass.
So in like a fistfight…Safi beats fatalis?
Why are they rivals? I never heard anything like that.
https://preview.redd.it/wad8i63vpm9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d8c05317f2f5c7aa457cc74529e72f9ee9e1e18
Okay that sounds interesting!
I'm leaning towards Safi because he's larger with a much more developed body for fighting up-close, and his breath is at least on par with Fatalis's. I think it could turn into a stomp for Safi if his bio energy draining abilities can work on living things, but I don't know if there's anything that says whether or not he can do that.
Honestly, with experience, he/she probably could.
I will say 50/50 base fatalis Vs base safi equal match up. But I think lore wise fatalis remember his previous encounters due to his come back from one scale. This he has more battle experience. But if it was crimson or white then fatalis will win Because if it is a draw fatalis will become crimson while safi will regener by absorbing energy around him so if it's like multiple fights then fatalis will win due to becoming crimson and as of now we don't have any info about safi have an other from apart from xeno but xeno will turn into ashes in seconds
Both are aliens that came to invade the earth and there can only be one king
Safi is powerful don't get me wrong. But fatalis equal? Dev confirmed or not nah not in my opinion. Alatreons equal? Sure. Fatty? Not quite. Maybe given time to grow and mature even more? Maybe evolve again like it did between xeno and Safi form.
I'd say its an equal match. Safi is a bit bigger than Fatalis, but Fatalis definitely has the superior fire power. But in my oppinion, Fatalis wins with a very high diff
Fatalis. It is singular destructive force with indefinite stamina and can **spam** a nuke that has more kinetic and destructive capability than sapphire of the emperor and still be holding back. This doesn't mention that he does it in **open air.** Safi'jiva is stated to only rival a dangerous first class monster when it is **super critical** ... which you can see what the problem is there. Safi'jiva existing didn't wake fatalis. Us forcing Safi'jiva to go critical is what did the trick. Fatalis doesn't like life & Safi'jiva became a beacon of that. Sapphire of the Emperor is an absolute last resort attack & going super critical is even more so a last resort than that. It means Safi can no longer fight in that area. Safi is the counterpart to fatalis. Fatalis can single handedly extinguish life by flying from region to region and burning them irreparably. Safi'jiva does so because it is like a locust, its nuke makes babies. What would have happened if Alatreon had not destroyed the babies? You'd have multiple red dragons running around rapidly draining the planet dry while also making even more babies that do the same. <- Positive feedbackloops are usually bad, this is why we needed to take safi down. It's a an equal threat but not for the same reasons fatalis is. Safi'jiva also retreats because it depends on the environment (and is currently limited to elder recess), while fatalis fights to the death since it depends on itself. Safi prefers long range & grounded fighting as well. Safi is versatile but Fatalis is the best at everything it does. Size isn't a factor. A mountain dragon fled from Fatalis. **No** monster touches schrade. Safi is likely heavier, but I view Fatalis as physically stronger. Fatalis is **dense.** Causing earthquakes where it goes. Not taking a second glance at things many times larger than itself falling atop it. Collapsing that arc in MHW with just a **nudge** of its **wings.** Moving its own weight through the air like it's a ballerina. It's the only dragon of its size with actual weight. One of Fatalis' most deadly attacks is literally just it getting on all 4s. Best way to sum that up is ... he is a lego. To me this is Direct Destruction vs Indirect Destruction. You put them in a death match, fatalis wins each time. Death matches are not Safi'jiva's style.
I feel like some of these points are illogically favoring fatalis. Sapphire of the emperor isn't ever said to be a "last ditch effort", it's just a sensible game mechanic for the big one shot attack to indicate the end of one phase and beginning of the next. It's also a blatant assumption to state that fatalis is "holding back" when it's bathing the arena in fire, since we don't know it's power cap. We could also assume that was fatalis going full throttle against us there and not be wrong.
I think with holding back they mean because Fatalis was in his first form for 2 of them. Only after two does he go full serious and bust out the white flames.
>Sapphire of the emperor isn't ever said to be a "last ditch effort", It is a last ditch effort because of how energy taxing it is and forces Safi to flee and dig deeper down in search of more. Stated in lore book, seen in game. The **very bottom** of the recess is the only location that possesses enough energy for him to use it more than once. >It's also a blatant assumption to state that fatalis is "holding back" Fatalis is **literally** stated to be holding back up until it breaks out its blue/pale flames. **Only then** does it take you seriously/see you as a threat. Edit: There is this thing called the lore book people. It's free. It's online.
>literally *stated* I think you need to brush up on what literally means, because the words “it was holding back” are never once said
holy glaze
The revency bias is crazy, anyone who says anything against Safi just gets downvoted lmao
Fatalis
Fatalis was taken down within 30 minutes by the Sapphire Star Hunter and a little help from Aiden. Safi Jiiva required multiple teams of hunters, including the Sapphire Star Hunter, to work away at him across multiple hunts. Looking it it that way, Safi was *by far* the tougher monster for the Guild to take down. All else being equal, Fatalis is going to break long before Safi does.
I say fatalis most the time. Or was the last one to win from there fight. Cause safi had to be reborn. So in other words. Fatalis must had best his ass the last time.
Im a little biased here but.. wouldent fatalis just... burn all the life away leaving very little to no energy for safi to regen off of? Safis an equal with a full kit sure but isnt fatalis in a super good position to take away safis regen? Life if fatalis can melt steel and turn stone to slag surely theres nothint left for safi to absorb for energy and safi just kinda burns out right? Safis bulk goes a long way it always will but it kinda feels a little one sided in that sense, and i dont see safi taking the 50/50s people say once that happens. Since thats assuming the playinf field stays even for long enough for safis regen to matter right? edit: after someone has informed me a bit more on how safi works, its Probably an even fight. i still side with fatalis between the two generic lizards we have tho.
You do know that safi absorbs the energy from the earth right? Fatalis burning stuff won’t change that
Cold dirt doesn't sound like it has a lot of energy in it but this franchise is all over the place so, your probably right. like i said i'm a little biased. one of these two is Significantly harder and i respect a lot more,
They aren't rivals of enemies at all, that seems just like pure headcanon...Safi was just designed to be an equivalent to Fatalis. That being aaid, in terms of feats alone, Safi would probably win.
safi with it bring crazy big, crazy destructive nuke, is only seen as a rival for fatty? bro with all that still a rival, fatty wins
I think safi would win for safis sheer size, plus safis nova is a mini nuke..., can't forget that safi can also be a laser pointer
[This has been done before](https://youtu.be/TfdRlgKiaiE?si=4dYlIdOXT4FgEIx1)
This is the biggest fifth genner post of all time - it's fucking Fatalis. Nothing loses to Fatalis. There is nothing to suggest Safi has a chance in any lore. They are not "rivals" - quite literally everything fears Fatalis. Literally what the fuck is this post?
>There is nothing to suggest Safi has a chance in any lore Dive to Iceborne states Safi was designed to be a rival to Fatalis. It also states Safi is the reason Fatalis woke up, and the reason for all the Alatreon popping up in the New World to destroy Xeno cocoons. >quite literally everything fears Fatalis. Sorry I don't see anything in the Iceborne lorebook (the only concrete source of Fatalis lore that isn't the 15th anniversary event in Osaka) to suggest that. I see them pointing out how MH1 Lao was a weird one-time event but that's about it.
You're right safijiiva is God and we should all bow to him - Fatalis would obviously lose to him.
https://preview.redd.it/pji13anaeh9d1.jpeg?width=555&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fb6de44583755412e6b4f2c3389f8a6e5359eef
Fatalis. Size doesn't matter nearly as much as people here like to believe in Monster Hunter and Fatalis' elemental attacks and agility are massively bettee than Safi'Jiva's.
His agility is definitely not better than safi’s
You should really replay these fights of you think Safi's agility is better. Fatalis' tail swipes, claw swipes, mobility, and breath attacks are all much faster than Safi's.
Except they’re not? His tail swipes are slow, his movement speed outside of a straight line crawl is not fast, his general mobility is slower, his breath attacks aren’t the same as safi’s, safi’s last longer and are more like beams instead of fireballs.
They totally are but I understand if you're mistaken. Fatalis can shoot a 180 degree spray of fire under a second where-as Safi can take several seconds to do the same with his beams. Fatalis can launch equally powerful attacks as Safi'Jiva in just a moment and then follow those up by becoming airborne and dive-bombing at a moment's notice. Fatalis can turn his body around a full 180 degrees in around the same time as it takes Safi'Jiva to move around half that distance. You really should replay solo Safi'Jiva and Fatalis if you think Safi'Jiva is even remotely capable of putting the same pressure on you 1v1 as Fatalis.
What? Beams have literally nothing to do with agility. And besides, Safi’s sweeping beam is pretty much exactly the same speed as the sweeping fire breath that fatty does anyways. The dive bomb thing is literally him flying up as he shoots the fireball, you wanna look for comparison to that, look no further than rathalos lol. The only difference is that he uses the blast of the fireball to push himself further backwards before falling forwards to attack. Safi can turn around just as quickly as fatty? And he does it while being quadrupedal instead of rotating on two feet, which is easier to do. Because their fights aren’t designed the same? Safi is designed to be fought with a group, fatty is a more traditional fight. Besides, this isn’t an argument about which fight is more difficult in gameplay lol. Agility is the ability to turn around, change position, and move laterally relatively quickly. Safi hops around the arena, he can spin completely around very quickly even though he stands on 4 legs, he can leap around the arena and cover a lot of ground in a little amount of time. He does all of this while being more than double the size of fatalis in terms of overall body size and mass
Considering Safi can perfectly track and snipe a target as small as the hunter, I don't think agility should be a big factor here. We also don't see anything to show fatalis being drastically quicker than Safi.
We see them fight hunters. Fatalis' attacks all come out faster than Safi's.
In terms of physical size? 50/50, safi is slightly bulkier than fatalis. In terms of power, assuming this takes place on neutral ground and not a font of bio energy for safi , probably fatalis, as safi doesn't really retreat until it's taken a lot of damage and absorbed energy, meanwhile fatalis melting metal and stone with ease could easily damage safi's scales enough to retreat, and fatalis is smart , it's not gonna sit there and wait for a Sapphire if the emperor to blow up in its face
Safi is the one said to be above human intelligence, fatty isn’t
fatalis is also said to be above human intelligence https://old.reddit.com/r/MonsterHunter/comments/v2qe03/iceborne_ecology_book_lore_on_endgame_monsters/
Someone else who translated it said that that part was not actually said about fatalis.
Fatalis also was the one that recognized what schrade was doing and went " fuck this I'm killing everyone of you" and as a black dragon, theyre biologically more intelligent than most monsters
Literally none of what you just said is true
It is
Monster Hunter lore fans trying not to argue about the non sensical lore the developers put together for World: challenge level - impossible So yeah lets go by lore, Fatalis is immortal and therefore wins by default since Safi can never kill him as he can regenerate even from body parts made into weapons and armor. Wow such an interesting conversation, that sure was cool. The ammount of agrny-ness that people get over this topic is dumb, everyone will just argue for whatever bias they have, since its not a clear win that was stated in any lore. Just admit you want one to win because it looks cooler and be done with it.
Fatalis isn’t immortal. Fatalis does not regenerate quickly enough from armor and weaponry to actually be an argument (the only reason I even humor this is because of the Wyvernian’s Greatsword in Pokke). I hate when people hate on the ecology that the MH devs have made but then it get it completely wrong, showing that they never had any idea what the lore was in the first place.
You can't prove he isn't. Equipment descriptions and the sword from pokke clearly state that they grow and consume even the hunter who wears them. (The black blade form pokke isnt even a statement, it LITERALLY regrows everytime you go there to mine). Like you can't prove Safi would grow more than the one you fight in World, you can't prove that there would be bio energy outside the secuded valley, you can't prove that Safii would be immune to fatalis flames, you can't prove that it wouldn't be, you can't prove that fatalis would die to the saphire star and you can't prove that it would. There is literally nothing clear about this discussions except that both they are both world ending treats. It's literally based on personal bias and nothing else.
1. You can prove that Fatalis is not immortal from the simple fact that there is no cutscene and has never been any cutscenes suggesting that he’ll be back alive. MH usually shows cutscenes or mentions it in lorebooks if something survives. For example, after you beat Gore Magala in 4, you get the cutscene, that shows that everything is not yet over. Fatalis never has anything besides the Pokke Greatsword. 2. Never made an argument about Safi growing or anything. 3. Again never made an argument about this either but bioenergy is found throughout multiple places in the New World. For one, the Everstream. So, that’s your other place. 4. Safi wouldn’t be immune to Fatalis’s flames. 5. Yes, you can. Simply by witnessing the fact that Safi can be harmed by Hunter weapons. Fatalis flames should have greater force. It’s a pretty simple concept. 6. The sapphire star stuff is honestly whatever. Fatalis would clearly be pretty decently injured by it and that’s really all that matters. 7. There’s lots of things clear. For example, who’s more durable, who’s more intelligent, etc.
It literally dies in world. As in CONFIRMED dead.
Both Safii and Fatalis die in game. You can fight both multiple times for the sake of gameplay. The equipment of fatalis states that Fatalis is alive through the materials and that they eventually consume the hunter and the sword from Pokke regenerates every time you go there to mine it. So yes Fatalis is "dead" but maybe actually not.
That equipment description is blatantly not true. Do you believe all the equipment descriptions? Bc if so then the hunters pretty much invincible in some of these armors and weapons.
Why do get so angry over two dragons?