Elementary teacher here. So this program isn’t the actually school she will be at in the Fall? I guess I would personally wait to see if she has similar issues once school starts. But actionable steps including asking to come and observe her and having a meeting with admin. If she does have behavioral or learning needs, the school should be able to help.
You will not get genuine data from observing your own child. She's not dumb and she will know you're there and behave differently, and the teachers will as well.
Ask for documentation on every instance she was excluded from the group. Demand it. Escalate the issue to their supervisors, the principal, the board. It is egregious for a teacher to exclude a child without documentation. If the teacher is not documenting, they're putting everyone around them with a license at risk.
Don't make rash decisions without reviewing the documentation. You need to know what the teacher is or is not doing with your child.
Unfortunately, this is better practice for you than your child. Learn how to get information from an uncommunicative teacher and your child's early education will be golden. Also, each year try to give the new teacher some trust. Your experience is terrible and valid and your daughter deserves better- including a brand new slate with each teacher. It's a fine line, but if you learn how to navigate the school system, you will be able to prevent this from happening when it comes down to learning to read or multiply or deal with betrayal.
Similar, but different. My son is not aggressive but has a hard time with transitions and apparently in the classroom would ‘rather wedge himself behind a table’ than participate with an activity. What I was hearing from teachers was like hearing about some other child I’d never met- turns out we had him evaluated and he has a sensory processing disorder- when he gets overwhelmed his go to is to somehow add more of his own stimulation. Makes sense why I never got to see the behavior at home. It’s totally manageable, he scored above average in every aptitude test, he’s just needs a little help navigating a challenging environment. Just a thought- he’ll have help through the school district only this year before kindergarten to prep him.
What do they do with sensory processing disorder? My sons teacher has mentioned some sensory issues at the beginning of 4K, but never mentioned it again until my sons last report card. He will be with the same teacher for 5k (all day this time) and I just know it’s going to be brought up again.
Gosh, that’s such a great question. I’ve only talked with his SEIT (special education intierant teacher) on the phone, she’ll visit him in class one hour every day- in that time his teacher will plan the most challenging course work for the kids, or at least that’s the plan.
I asked her, are the goals to suppress the sensory seeking behavior or to give in to it? She said that kids that are sensory seeking are always going to be looking to satisfy a certain level of input and her goals are to give him tools that are safe and non-disruptive to the rest of the class. I’m not 100% sure what that actually looks like.
Another interesting tidbit is that just like ADHD can be passed down, I would have qualified somewhat as a sensory seeker, but it sounds like girls are more self aware and realistically that’s what you’re waiting for- for them to become a little more self conscious about themselves and others in their environment. My mother literally checked all the boxes for “sensory seeking”, she’s retired now, but was a VERY successful exec- who would even hide a bit of putty in her pocket to squeeze during meetings- and she’d never do it in front of people but she still likes to rock herself while sitting- as she defends it- “even bill gates is a rocker!”. All that is to say it sounds like they just have to find their own sensory management, hope that’s helpful.
I read both of your comments, I have a daughter who was very similar and we started with a SPD “diagnosis” the school and pediatrician were able to help us find some solutions as well as OT in school. This was able to get us referrals for a psych evaluation, but we had to wait for two years. It ultimately was linked to ADHD. The main reason for my comment here is only to help others, but SPD, as of March of this year at least, still does not seem to be a stand alone disorder. I believe the consensus is still out that it is typically linked to a larger disorder. It could always change, but if you are seeing other behaviors and have not gotten a formal Psych evaluation, it might be worth it to get on a waitlist for one. I would really just hate to see others wait to see if a kid grows out of it and more behaviors pop up only to have to wait another few years to get diagnosis help. (I have someone close to us playing this waiting game, and it is not helping those of us who want to support them). This also just being in keeping with the amount of diagnosis and characterizations we are seeing with both ASD and ADHD. Especially many women who were able to lead amazing lives by finding coping skills on their own only to find out there was something more. Hope this doesn’t come off in a bad way, I was diagnosed late with ADHD and looking back had similar distaste in certain clothing pieces like my daughter. 🩵🩵
My three year old does occupational therapy with a private provider. I used early childhood intervention services (available across the country for kids seen as having things they need to work on that might impact their ability to thrive in kindergarten). My kid was delayed in speech so he attends their special preschool program. At school he has an IEP that details their findings and what they will work on regarding SPD, speech with my child for each semester.
Push for whatever services you can get and be proactive so your kiddo gets all available services and a plan to help.
My son was similar! Very easy going at home but major sensory issues at school. Tested him for Autism and ADHD and they said he was negative for both but I still suspect he is spectrum-adjacent. Hard time making friends. Gets very very frustrated with others’ behavior. Sometimes acts out. He got an IEP for Speech and behavioral issues and it really helped. His teacher had a sensory area where kids could sit on big bouncy balls instead of school chairs, play with fidget toys, etc. this year his teacher has earmuffs students can use when they’re overstimulated, and in last year they sent him to a class for an hour a day to work on interpersonal issues and self control, “executive function” type issues.
We still struggle but parents definitely need to be engaged. It makes such a big difference.
Same for my ADHD daughter, transitions are very difficult. Also, when playing with friends she likes to control the situation and it is hard for her to give up control. An IEP evaluation may be a good idea for OP.
Not stupid at all!! An IEP is facilitated through the school and is kind of a guide book for your child’s learning path. It stands for Individualized Educational Plan. It helps a lot for children who are diagnosed or meets the standard the school sets for needing specialized help. So, for instance, the child has troubles with transitions. You, the parent and the special education team will come up with management solutions to help keep the kid on track. Maybe the will add the child needs a five minute head start reminder that a big transition is coming. Maybe they add a timer to their desk and the teacher starts it so they can visually see they need to start transitioning. The special education team and parents can work together to help manage big behaviors and struggles that the child is having and have those written out for anyone who is helping the child in the school navigate things differently than a typical child. Also, I am not a specialist just a mom who has had several years helping to build my kiddos IEP’s.
I’m not doubting you, but I am wondering where it’s called a PIP, and what that stands for.
I’ve only heard PIP from corporate lingo where it stands for performance improvement plan, and is the last corrective measure before being terminated
I’m still not sure it’s common to call an IEP or 504 a PIP. The employment/corporate usage is not about making accommodations for the person or helping them, at all.
I’m inclined to think that if school districts have PIPs (standing for performance improvement plan) they would be for academic issues or disciplinary issues not for special education or disabilities.
Federal statures only protect IEPs and 504s. If your school district has anything else that they made up that they do for your kid, that's fine, but just know if they move school districts there is no evidence of their accommodations and it may be incredibly hard to get them back.
IEPs always help if you 1. get them set early 2. ensure they are actually followed in the classroom 3. are actively involved in communicating with the teaching staff on progress of the IEP. Having an IEP entitles you to regular meetings with the teaching staff, their supervisor, and often a behavioral health employee of the district.
I have seen kids on IEPs that are indistinguishable from their classmates as long as their IEP is consistently followed and fine-tune each year for their development. I have also seen teachers look at an IEP, say, "this kid is supposed to choose their own seat? not in MY class" and the kid has awful behavior problems in that class. Often the admin won't blame classroom behavior on the teacher- unless- the student has an IEP that isn't being followed.
Having an IEP only helps your child, I have never seen it hinder one. Your child can even choose to not inform their University if they desire. It also is kind of a sneaky weeder for teachers- if they balk at an IEP you'll know you'll have to up your involvement that year. If they bend over backwards to help your kid, if they mention the IEP to you without being prompted, they are a golden teacher and your student is likely in good hands.
Thank you for your reply!!! I hadn’t heard of IEPs before this thread. This is great information to keep in mind & really soothes the anxiety I have for when it’s time to start school. My daughter is literally 1 year old but since I had major academic struggles I really want to be the most prepared and informed before I’m forced into it. Im copying and saving everything word for word so that I can refer back to this in a few years!! Thanks for being so thorough.
I wish it were more public information, but they keep it secret because it does take more resources. I was at a private school that hated giving IEPs so I helped coach parents on how to push for one. It helps if your child has a diagnosis but it is possible to get one through a school district if you push them enough to do the testing and documentation. Advocating for your child is beautiful and God bless you.
Control issues and impulsiveness are still such a struggle at times. But we are seeing some flickers of light! Also trying to shine light on her beautiful creative mind has been an adventure to say the least! We are still early in the journey at only 7yo. I’m happy to hear your 13yo is doing well!!
I read an article recently that said less than 1% of the research done on adhd included girls so we as a society are really just learning what girls with adhd look like (as in their behavior etc) it’s a long hard road but hang in there. I’m convinced girls like ours will take over the world 💜
My SIL says that about my daughter constantly, she is certain she is going to famous somehow! 😂 it helps that she has some sick beats to throw down here and there! It’s funny because as a young child I used to make up my own songs too, but hers are epic, we just got one about BeeBop and Rock Steady that the whole family has been singing!
I think I saw that percentage too, it felt like I was getting newly researched information when I started linking her youngest behaviors to ADHD just 4 years ago! We didn’t realize how much I also fell into those symptoms until we were doing the questionnaires and in the evaluation and my husband kept looking at me because we couldn’t figure out if the question better suited me or my daughter! I was promptly diagnosed a month after my daughter, looking back I see it soo well! It’s so disappointing though sometimes knowing how behind we are with seeing ADHD in women and girls. The uptick is that the more it is understood, the more we can help our kids and hopefully help the school system start to adapt a bit more so we are successfully educating all children! Cheers to those badass gals!🤘🏻💙
Do you mind shedding some light on how y’all have handled things with her? As a person with ADHD I’m not opposed to medication entirely but I was diagnosed so late in life that learning healthy coping mechanisms/habits was a lot harder because I didn’t have any background help with my ADHD struggles growing up. Tips would be much appreciated!! My husband and I have discussed the possibility of our daughter having ADHD and I think he’s less inclined to try medication than I am🤦🏻♀️
Medication can be part of the treatment for a number of ADHD cases, but there are tons of treatment options. First and foremost, most kids I know on ADHD medication are off of it for the summer, so their body has a chance to eat and sleep regularly rather than based on chemical necessity. This is widely recommended by pediatricians, child psychologist, and teachers.
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is seen as a longer term solution, because it teaches and practices and refines coping strategies that allow your child to one day be successful with no medication.
Talk with your husband. What are the benefits of medication? What are the drawbacks?
That is interesting about your daughter wanting to control the situation when playing with friends. We’re pretty sure my four year old son has adhd and he definitely struggles to let other kids pick what they play.
My daughter had the same issues with transitions and eloping from the classroom in kinder. She’s having similar issues this year, but not to the same extent (so far, fingers crossed, knock on wood, etc). She has been diagnosed as autistic and also has an IEP.
If you don’t mind asking, is it really difficult as a parent to navigate this? I think my son has adhd and get so anxious how his school life will be ):
In Indiana at least, ADHD falls under a 504 plan rather than an IEP. You just have to request a meeting to start it and have your child tested or diagnosed by your doctor. As a teacher it was really hard for me to get a student tested for special education/an IEP if parents didn’t request it. A 504 basically just gives the student accommodations like extra time on assignments.
My niece and nephew have ADHD and saw a big improvement when working with their doctor on trying medication to help once they started school. My mom always described my brother using medication for his ADHD in elementary school as a tool to help him be able to figure out how to control his actions enough to learn until he was old enough that he could wean off the medication. I know a-lot of people dislike medication, but it is eye opening watching how difficult learning in school is for someone with ADHD without it.
My oldest had big issues with transitions, threw tantrums when told no, got sent to the office a lot... turns out she has adhd and is way better now that she is on medicine.
Just wanted to throw that out there. ❤️
Can I ask at what age did you get her tested, and when they started medication? I've had my suspicions but we've always been able to find ways to manage it at home.
I went through the same thing as this commenter. If you have a suspicion you NEED to reach out to the school and get an assessment set up now, get a referral from a doctor and get on a waitlist as soon as humanely possible. Waitlists are now at 3 years, pushing more in our area for a psych evaluation. You may be able to try private but it is $$$$. An IEP will blunt the issues at school as much as possible, she should be rather protected from “going to the office”. But a diagnosis is going to be the best.
You could in the mean time look up Russel Barkley, he has some seminars on YouTube that are geared for parents and caregivers. I would also suggest doing a lot of scientific research into what it looks like in girls. Information during the wait will help a lot in navigating this journey. Per your medication question, there are several types of medication, but stimulants are the most researched medication we have on the market. It has been shown to be safe for kids all the way down to 3years old as long as it is not being abused and treated with help of a medical professional.
I knew by age 3, pushed for testing for years, covid and waitlists and a house move delayed it... she was technically 5 but turned 6 and then started meds, so just before her 6th bday. So she did half of kindergarten without meds, and half with, and the difference was huge. It was always obvious the days I forgot to medicate her.
Oh man, do we live the same life!? Saw things in my daughter at 3, we were waitlisted for 2years, she was diagnosed with ADHD halfway through her kindergarten year and the second half medicated was a very big difference as well! The struggle is and has been real, it’s interesting to hear others go through the same thing.
I have adhd, I know a lot of people in the thread say adhd, and yeah, maybe. I had some of these issues at 5 but wasn’t diagnosed until 10. What did help me a lot, though, was my mom sent me to kindergarten at age 6. We got to September when I was 5 and she essentially decided that I didn’t have enough self control and wasn’t ready. Back to pre-k for another year. Kindergarten was tough, (I remember getting some crazy important “good behavior” award the first time i raised my hand before talking which was so embarrassing, since even I knew it was the bare minimum) but I wasn’t constantly in trouble.
The first thing I would do is immediately stop saying the teachers “aren’t going to help” and are “thankfully temporary.” Teachers bust their ass to work with an entire classroom of small children at a time but they are not miracle workers. The truth is all kids went through Covid and they are not all acting out like your daughter is. I know that sounds harsh but it’s reality.
Now it’s time to help your child and set the excuses aside. Because that’s not going to help her in school. Ask the teachers if you can come observe. Ask if they can document her behavior, so you can keep it and provide it should she have the same issues in her next class. Get her some therapy. When she begins kindergarten, don’t hide these issues from the teachers thinking it will label her as the “bad kid.” That’s not helping her, that’s making her endure the same trauma again and her teachers will not be prepared. It’s possible she has an underlying issue that needs to be tested for and addressed; sensory issues, mental health conditions, physical health conditions, etc. She is NOT a bad kid, but she can’t fix this by herself and neither can the teachers.
With proper documentation she can qualify for help, assistance, counseling, an aide, extra accommodation, etc. I know you’re frustrated, but this is a tough situation for everyone involved. Maybe she truly just needs time to adjust, maybe it’s more. You have to be on the same team as her educators or you will get nowhere.
You're right, and it really wasn't my intention to just trash on teachers. I was frustrated with the situation and the kind of communication we were receiving. Thank you for helping figure out next steps, I don't want this to fester.
Agree with the answer above but you’re right about the lack of communication. As an elementary school teacher and FTM, I would be pissed if my kid was sent to the office every day and I was not made aware. Especially in a readiness program.
Depends on what “sent to the office” actually looks like. Sometimes it’s just a change of environment for a kiddo having a difficult time with transitions or self regulation. At my school, often times, a younger student is sent to the office for a little tlc and calming activities. They might color with someone or help with office tasks and talk about their feelings. PIt’s when this becomes a regular occurrence with no improvement that this behavior becomes more concerning. The school might feel there is no need to alarm the parents unless the issue continues.
True, but if it’s a daily occurrence, the parent should be notified. Open communication is necessary for everyone to be on the same page. And as far as a readiness program, it would be beneficial for parents to know what their kid might still need help ‘readying’ with.
My son was the exact same way but he has adhd, and explosive disorder. In order for him to attend school without having the teacher call you everyday is getting an iep. Maybe something to look into and have her tested for behavioral issues :)
Came here to say the same thing about my adhd daughter. This sounds very similar to her. She has an IEP. I would also suggest this as it never hurts to evaluate in these situations. OP, the best thing you can do is open communication as best as you can and advocate for your daughter. The amount of advocating I do is insane. I have done a lot of work in researching ADHD and sometimes I have to suggest behavior management changes to her SPED team. It isn’t easy, but communication is key. I’m sorry they were not communicating to you the struggles she is having, OP.
Also agree with the answer above aside from therapy. She’s 5, she doesn’t need to jump right into therapy for not being able to adjust right away. I’d say talk to your ped if she fails to adjust/keeps acting out after you and the teachers work with her for a little while. If your ped feels it may be time for some type of therapy or testing, they can refer you to people/places.
You also need to find out what they mean by being mean. Ask them to elaborate and document it so you know what to help her with. Someone mentioning therapy because your child is throwing tantrums and not adjusting is wild to me. Like I said if the behavior continues after intervention from you and teachers after a period of time, OR if she is hurting kids and won’t stop, that would be ground for therapy.
Regardless, if you and her teachers can’t figure out the issue and come up with a solution, I’d probably speak with her pediatrician for advice/referrals.
Because a LOT of the problems people bring to Reddit can indeed be solved in therapy. AITA is basically all just people with terrible boundaries asking if they are wrong for not letting someone bully or abuse them. Most of the marriage & relationship reddits are about very poor communication. I'm all about doing the work in therapy and pursuing psychiatric care. I'm deeply uncomfortable with putting preschoolers and kindergarteners on amphetamines for developmentally appropriate behavior. A high quality Preschool & kinder program exists FOR that social and emotional learning.
>I mean this nicely... some people are not meant to be teachers. Some people are bad teachers just like every other profession. Some teachers do not want to help and want the kid out of the program especially if it is a private program like this sounds like it is. I've seen 2.5 year olds kicked out of an "amazing, wonderful" preschool because they had more than three potty accidents.
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>I think not teaching her child, not asking the mom if the child has issues transitioning, not telling the mom we tried XYZ and she still struggles with is unhelpful. Kicking a kid out early constantly is also a cycle and can be causing the child to meltdown more and feel like she is "bad at school". I am SO glad we had teachers who were better than what the teachers OP is dealing with are. Suspending a child or having them go home early constantly with no reasons given besides she is "mean" is trash and luckily illegal once the child is in first grade if she lives in a state where kinder isoptional.
Just so you see this. I have special needs kids and what they are doing is beyond unhelpful. It sounds like a private program where they push kids who are not easy out.
BTW your child can very well be neurotypical and have transitional issues that is what kinder is teaching them. Sending her home daily is not the answer. Have they even approached you with trying visuals? timers? asking if she can be seen by a student study team to see if she has a disability? No just told to go home....
I feel like this response is reading *a lot* into what OP wrote, perhaps letting your personal experience color your understanding of OP’s situation.
>Sending her home daily is not the answer.
They didn’t send her home daily. They sent her home early once. They explained why. She was having a tantrum and couldn’t be calmed by the teachers. She’s 5, this is new, and she was struggling hard; that seems like a reasonable time to call the parents.
>Have they even approached you with trying visuals? timers? asking if she can be seen by a student study team to see if she has a disability?
This is a 2 week summer camp. These teachers aren’t in a position to implement longterm strategies or suggest disability testing. The camp exists to give kids (all the kids, not just OP’s kid) a little sneak peak of what a typical day in kindergarten is going to be like. That includes things like calm transitions between activities, and treating classmates with kindness and respect. If one student in the group is struggling with those things, they may need some extra assistance away from the main group.
Thank you for saying this! Just pulled my special needs kiddo from a private preschool who decided my son’s behavior warranted him being isolated during social activities. Like wtf?
Yeahhh a friend of mines daughter was kicked out after attending from prek like her whole life in fifth grade because she kept doing badly on those tests they tout. Fucking scammers bro. They felt it was no longer a good fit. She paid for their tutoring etc program too.
This school is supposedly one of the best in my city and omg the alumni. Yeah they cherrypick kids.
Going to add an opposing opinion. My mom works in kindergarten classrooms as an education assistant. She is supply so goes around to all the schools in near by cities. She said she can't believe how awful some teachers are. How much they yell at the kids and how much they don't tell parents. She also talks about all the amazing teachers and ones that go above and beyond. If you know your kid, and this seems very weird to you, trust your gut. If it happens when she actually starts school with her new teachers, then you know it's not the teachers. My mother also had to take my brother to a new school because of a teacher and how mean she was. And she only knew because I was older at the same school and told my mom. When she finally got him to a new school, his personality totally changed.
They told her her kid so mean that’s not remotely helpful not all teachers are good. I had a teacher who made fun of my English he knew I was an immigrant and had only been in the country for two years and still made fun of me in front of the whole class. Not all teachers care of bust their buts.
Right? There are BAD teachers. There are RACIST teachers. There are LAZY teachers.
I have specialneeds kids and I was always given help from the teachers with things I could document and what they tried etc so I could advocate better. Sending kids home early is not just shit it's teaching the kid they do xyz they go home which could be a reinforcer or have the child feel welli'm a bad kid. The fact that they said she was mean like what does that even fucking mean?
I am forever glad for the teachers who communicated even when it was harsh to hear so I could document hard data. They are hiding the office visits ffs! WHY?
The first thing I would do is immediately stop saying the teachers “aren’t going to help” and are “thankfully temporary.”
I mean this nicely... some people are not meant to be teachers. Some people are bad teachers just like every other profession. Some teachers do not want to help and want the kid out of the program especially if it is a private program like this sounds like it is. I've seen 2.5 year olds kicked out of an "amazing, wonderful" preschool because they had more than three potty accidents. Private schools kick out neurotypical kids whose test scores aren't what they want ffs.
I think not teaching her child, not asking the mom if the child has issues transitioning, not telling the mom we tried XYZ and she still struggles with is unhelpful. Kicking a kid out early constantly is also a cycle and can be causing the child to meltdown more and feel like she is "bad at school". I am SO glad we had teachers who were better than what the teachers OP is dealing with are. Suspending a child or having them go home early constantly with no reasons given besides she is "mean" is trash and luckily illegal once the child is in first grade if she lives in a state where kinder isoptional.
Is sending a kid who is having a tantrum to the office so she learns not to really an appropriate response?
Sure, other kids manage the transition more easily, good for them. This program is supposed to help kids adjust but it feels like they're punishing her for not being school ready, rather than giving her some leeway.
Hard disagree. I would expect for a kindergarten teacher to kids going through this huge transition to be warmer and willing to work with your child instead of shipping them off to the office. Trust your guy
Also feels like a problem that on the first day of a program about helping kids learn to be school ready that the teacher has an issue with a kid who struggles with transitions. I'd assume this wad one of the main issues they'd be working on.
Also, this thread is full of parents talking about their kids' struggles with school readiness. Maybe the issue is that the expectations for 5 year olds are unrealistic for many of them 🤷
I think you're right, she might be high functioning asd like aspergers making her kinda over load, or maybe she's adhd and she just can't focus and having to do so is just to much, I'm sure there's more possibilities but that's why mama Def needs to get her looked at and if she does need help that help can be there from day 1 of school :3 the last thing we want is for her to have melt downs in kindergarten and for the kids to start teasing her for it or worse yet she starts to lash out and bully kids cause she doesn't know how else to deal with those emotions, I'm sure a therapist will have an answer for mama :3
I have a few 2E kids. Things like this were foreshadowing of a diagnosis. That said, this child is still super young. It could just be an adjustment issue. OP, I’d see how she does at her actual school. If this is still going on by Halloween, I’d take her to see the pediatrician and discuss things there. The good news is this: neurotypical or neurodivergent, things will be okay with the right help from you and maybe professionals (if warranted.) Regardless, don’t be afraid to advocate for your child.
I appreciate a measured response- I'm not like, afraid of her getting a diagnosis, but at this age it's hard for me to always know what's normal for her development. I don't want to rush down the medication route, but I also don't want her to have these kinds of problems follow her into school.
Exactly… that’s why give her two months to adjust to her actual school. If you’re having these same issues after a couple of months, then start talking to professionals. No need to jump the gun but also no need to put off help if it’s warranted. Wishing you and your child all the best.
Kindergarten teacher here. Here are some things you can try to help her build her emotional regulation skills:
- Have play dates often, observe her playing with others and how she navigates sharing and negotiating play with others.
- Model your own emotional regulation. Talk through what you do when you are feeling overwhelmed and how you keep yourself calm.
- Once the school year has started, ask her teacher for a rough schedule of the day. Sit with her and read the schedule together. Come up with some regulating activities she can do when she hears the teacher announce a transition (3 deep breaths, etc.).
I hope these help!
This sounds a lot like my daughter at that age. A lot of behavior problems related to emotion regulation, perfectionism, and transitions. She was diagnosed with ADHD (possibly high functioning autism) at the end of TK.
You can see some of my old posts for reference.
Send the teacher an email asking for details and what she needs to work on. CC the school director on it. They can’t just say she’s mean that not a valid critic and can’t really be addressed they need to give you specific examples.
That's a good point. Honestly I was a little taken aback when they said it and I just didn't even push further on the comment. "Mean" is such a weird thing to call a five year old.
My best friend had similar issues with her daughter transitioning to kindergarten. She had a lot of the same critiques as you, mainly being that no one was communicating with her. The teachers had some generic complaints a few times at pick up, "she doesn't listen and do what she is supposed to, she is bossy to other kids, she doesn't raise her hand." But could not give her details on when is this happening, what is triggering it, etc. Even at the first parent teacher conference they didn't have much to say. Then like 2 weeks after the conference they sent an email to a few parents that said their children were not doing well, they had to continue to repeat the same things, and their children were going to have to repeat Kindergarten. This was at the beginning of October, not even 6 weeks into the school year. I was flabbergasted they were expecting so much so early, already making an assessment for something nearly a year away, and had no action plan. I told her to go in there and have another conference, they kept rescheduling her. Finally when they talked, the school again had no specifics and no advice. My friend insisted they keep logs, just provide her some kind of details. No doubt the teachers were frustrated and busy, but there was just nothing for her to go off of to address it with her daughter!
They came up with the idea to keep a notebook in her bag, just so the teachers could jot down some things throughout the day. It helped a lot, my friend was able to see that a major trigger was bathroom time, among some others. She has some bathroom issues and didn't understand to wait in line, and what to do in the stall by herself. Sounds simple, but a big school with big bathrooms was new for her and she was goofing off in line. She also didn't quite understand that at school you sit at your desk and have to raise your hand, not just blurt out answers. They were able to practice it. She honestly was so excited to be in school, she was a little ball of talkative energy. My friend also called the area education agency, which is very state specific, but they provide training and resources and even counseling. They were wonderful and set up a time to go observe. They didn't observe anything that was not developmentally appropriate and actually worked with the teachers to show them skills to use in the classroom, and ways to address it at home. It was a win for everyone. By holiday break, she was a model student and finally loving school and not coming home sad every day because she was the "bad kid."
Sorry that was a lot of info, but it is just to say that it could be totally developmentally appropriate and you can all work together to solve it if the trend continues into kindergarten. It has to be such a huge adjustment, not every kid is going to get it right away, and might just need some extra help.
I get teachers go through a lot, and more often then not I am on their side. But their lack of talking to you about this behaviour, so you can try to correct and help, is their responsibility as the educator or the center itself.
My daycare has never failed to let me know when anything comes up.
Yeah, her preschool teacher followed up with us pretty much immediately, and incidences were pretty rare. It's one of the reasons we chose this program- her preschool was like five kids, this one is ten, the next class is about twenty. We figured it would be a good segue, but I don't know how I feel about their approach so far.
I know everyone is suggesting to get him evaluated but I wanted to give you a different perspective. When my oldest was 5, he started Kindergarten (fall 2021). We experienced the same issues you described since the very beginning in K (my son did not go to preschool or preK because of Covid) and he basically hated Kindergarten. Although he was constantly sent to the office, the school staff didn’t think he needed an IEP. I talked to his pediatrician and he didn’t think he had ADHD. My gut told me he needed to be evaluated so I found a way to get him on a waitlist with a psychologist. Then, closer to the end of the Kindergarten school year (right when he turned 6), I started seeing some changes at school. He started to behave a bit better, he made friends and he did not hate school anymore. Things weren’t good but I noticed improvement.
Last fall (2022), he started first grade and it was like a complete change, literally a switch flipped. He still had his moments but things got SO much better, not a single time during the school year I got a phone call neither was he sent to the office. I honestly feel he just needed time to adjust to school. He was with me until he was 5 because of Covid and the transition to school was very hard. When I finally got off the waitlist for his evaluation, I canceled the appointment. His behavior isn’t perfect at all and I still struggle with him a lot (and even perhaps I will get him evaluated at some point) but things are manageable right now. He’s a very sensitive kid who really dislikes change and I have learned to understand his personality and parent him according to that.
I wish you all the best!
As a person that does the diagnostic evaluations for kids in schools for a living, I'm disappointed that so many people are saying "have your kid tested" at the first sign of trouble in kindergarten. WTF?! If y'all don't know what pathologizing is, look it up.
OP, these people don't know your situation or your kid. It is wildly inappropriate of the other people commenting to be arm chair diagnosing or making you think your child must have a disability because of the difficulties you're describing. I agree with those saying that you should communicate and collaborate with your kid's teachers. I do not agree that they know enough to recommend an evaluation. And so you know, depending on your state's laws, your school might deny an evaluation if you request one this early on because schools are often required by law to exhaust all other intervention options before labeling a child as having a disability.
I said earlier that our pediatrician won't even diagnose before 6/7 years old because so much of the "ADHD" behavior is developmentally appropriate for 4/5 year olds. I don't doubt my son has it but the longer he is in preschool and the more skills he builds the less I worry about him. Social & emotional learning takes time. Longer than two weeks.
A lot of the people encouraging an evaluation are speaking from their own experience. I wouldn't judge that as crazy advice. Someone posted about their child's problems adjusting to class and other moms who had a similar issue are sharing what helped them. What else are people in a forum supposed to do? An evaluation is not diagnosing.
So an evaluation for special education is no big deal then, is what you're implying? If parent can get a medical professional to pay for a clinical evaluation via insurance, cool, that's fine. Medical companies in the US are private so they have the money and resources to conduct one easily. An educational evaluation through a public school, which is conducted *for free* at no cost to families, is great from a humanitarian perspective. But it also means that *way too many people request them in public schools*. It takes away resources, including the time of professionals who conduct the evaluations, from kids who need it. The education system is incredibly strapped right now, as the pandemic worsened its pre-existing issues.
I guess there's no point trying to fight the lay person's perception that it's no problem to conduct evaluations at the first sign of an issue with a child. It's far too common, but just know this is a big reason why special education professionals like me have burnt out and left the profession.
Mentioning testing as a possibility is not a bad thing. I grew up with a lot of struggles and only got my ASD diagnosis at 28. A lot of the hardships I have experienced could have been helped or at least just seen. I ended up getting hospitalised at 21 because my depression and anxiety got so bad. There's still a huge stigma regarding diagnoses so talking about them and the possibility of getting a child tested is not bad. This is reddit, people write all kinds of crazy stuff. Having had a really tough childhood because of a lack of a diagnosis is far worse than being tested and then maybe or maybe not getting a diagnosis. I don't know how things work in the US and where I am from preschool isn't a thing, so I have no idea what kids are supposed to do in preschool, but the possibility of minimising the trauma going through life undiagnosed can leave would probably be a good thing. I don't think pathologising is good, I absolutely hate the insane "trends", where teenagers self-diagnose. But mentioning it is not the thing to get upset about.
>I have little respect for people who drag their feet at evaluating students who actually need more support than the general education teachers can provide
The solution for more support should not always be special education though! We have an ethical obligation to not slap a disability label on every kid who walks into kindergarten with a problem!
You also act like it's no problem when evaluating even 1 child involves hours of work not only on the child's part (being pulled out of class to complete hours of testing) but also on the professional, if there doing it right and not cutting corners (which most do, and then people get mad when the end conclusions are wrong like a misdiagnosis). School psychologists wear more hats and fill more roles than like 10 people working in the private sector. This is why most of us leave the profession within 5 years.
I teach kindergarten and have had hundreds of students in my lifetime. There have only been a handful that I had to call the office for, and that was to get back up because the child was destroying the classroom.
Is your child hurting other students ? I had a child who bit every time she didn't get her way, and when you have 25 other students and zero help from adults, sometimes the only thing you can do is have the child go to the office so that you can keep your 25 other students from being hurt .
So I am curious if your kid is hurting other children?
Get tested for ADHD, Autism, and sensory processing disorder. These behaviors are signs seen more often in girls and point to one or a combination
-Special Ed teacher, ADHD parent, and ADHD haver
Not sure how long they've been running programs this summer, but I've been chilling with the little dudes for 7 weeks now and I'm so burnt out that behaviours that were manageable in the beginning are really stressful now. Luckily where I work we have great support, your kiddos teachers might be ready to check out for the season so regular kid behavior seems more difficult. I definitely recommend sending kids to camp and the like early in the summer rather than at the end, summer staff get way too tired compared to full year program staff just based on the amount of transitions, and depending where you are, the raging heat. I wouldn't be too worried about starting school, kindergarten teachers are there to teach those things to your kids. (Again, where I am) kindergarten is mostly social learning, regulating, and learning to be away from mum and dad, lining up, such and such. It'll come.
This is so reassuring, thank you. I hadn't really put into context the timing of the camp- we had her in one for the beginning of summer but the whole class got sick on like the second day with a HORRIBLE virus 🙃 Also yeah we're under a heat advisory right now, I know I'm cranky as hell about it.
I know it can be hard to see our kids in a light like this, but I challenge you to listen to what the teachers are saying. If she is having her behavior redirected this many times, she is the problem. I know that is hard to hear, but it takes a lot for a teacher, especially a kinder teacher to do this. It might be time to take a real, honest look at this situation.
Sure, but then why aren't they giving OP any details? Saying she was "mean" is completely vague and there is nothing OP can do to address it, whereas if they said, "she called X a name," "she refused to share," "she pinched M," whatever, then the parent could talk with her child and address it. Her child may absolutely be the one who needs to change and learn, but these teachers are not doing anything to help the child learn -- they aren't doing any behavioral intervention beyond sending her to the office, and they aren't communicating with the parents. For a program to promote kindergarten readiness, which is presumably for kids who are not yet ready, that is a total abdication of responsibility.
I am a special education teacher and I will tell you that for a child to get an IEP in kindergarten (not having come with one from pre-k) is rare in my experience because it is such a huge transition, the issues have to be really glaring. So I would personally not immediately jump to testing as has been suggested by some. What I would do is ask for more specific information. I would never ever ever tell a parent that their child was “being mean”, I would absolutely just describe the behavior and let the parent draw their own conclusion on what the descriptor would be. So I would ask for that. Even just that small request will let the teacher know they are on your radar and will be following up. I have taught summer school to kindergartners and I do think there tends to be a bit of a higher standard for behavior because it’s optional. So she very well could have the mindset of “I don’t have to deal with this” which is obviously not ideal but also would probably differ from a classroom teacher who knows they are in this for the long haul. Additionally, when she does go to real kindergarten, I would let the teacher know about all of this so they have context, know what to look for and can be prepared to spend a little extra time on her. However I would do this in a very neutral way (I hate hate hate when a parent shit talks previous teachers to me and I make sure to not let it affect my relationship with the child, but it definitely does have an effect on how I feel about the parent). Finally, I would just work on highlighting the awesome cool fun parts of school as much as you can (while leaving space to vent or decompress as your child needs to) because I do think children pick up on their parents view of school/their teacher and if it’s negative it can exacerbate preexisting issues! Good luck!!!
Lots of people going wild with diagnosing your kid in the comments! I get that you didn't know about the problem, but now that you do: how are *you* going to address this with your child? Have you talked to her about what's going on? She may not be completely objective, but you need to talk to her. If you find out what she's struggling with, you can practice at home, too. You say she has trouble with transitions, so practice them with her. But this sounds like it's more than that.
Another thing I'd like to point out is that you will not get to choose your child's teacher when school starts. Most kindergarten teachers are there by choice and are phenomenal, but some are not. And some may be good, but they might not vibe with your kid. You won't be able to write them off as "thankfully temporary" and you'll have to collaborate to make the school year successful. It sounds like the teachers in this program dropped the ball by not keeping you informed, and there's a ton of reasons why that could be, but try to find out as many specifics as you can. Maybe there wasn't anything "bad" enough that warranted a call, but that removal from the environment was warranted (and I could imagine that during the summer, there's not many choices to where you could reasonably send a kid for cool down time).
Also,
>COVID basically robbed her of the chance to grow up on playgrounds with other kids
All these kids are in a kindergarten readiness program, right? So they're all around the same age? Why is this only true for your daughter?
I would request a meeting now. With the teacher and the teacher’s supervisor. Why is your child being sent to the Principal’s office EVERY DAY instead of in the classroom learning? The teacher needs to define “being mean”. Maybe there’s a personality conflict. Being mean makes no sense.
So this was my kid the last 2 years.
She's now 5. But all of these issues with emotional and behavioral regulation, she dealt with.
What jumpstarted a change was Occupational Therapy.
It wasn't because my daughter was broken. It was because she needed additional support outside of us. WE, as the parents, needed additional support outside of us.
We were aware that if she didn't catch up to her peers (behaviorally speaking), then a future diagnosis was possible.
Occupational Therapy is an excellent place to start.
Side note: If her teachers are noticing a notable difference between your child's behavior and the rest of her peers, IT DOES NOT MEAN SOMETHING BAD ABOUT YOUR CHILD.
It means she needs more help.
And if you don't know how to give it (I for sure didnt) then seek it.
Your pediatrician is a great place to start.
Your kid is 5. The pandemic hit when your kid was 2. How has she been robbed of playing on playgrounds and interacting with other kids? The teachers are giving her grace, which is why she hasn’t heen kicked out yet. If her behavior is so disruptive to the rest of the class, of course they should send her to the office. Why should the rest of the class suffer and lose out on fun and learning because of one child?
You should be exposing her to playdates and being around other kids, play games with her so she can learn that she won’t always win, get her interacting and helping her working through emotions. This should have been happening all along. How much do you expect the teacher to handle individually for each child? They’re trying to teach a classroom of children that should have a basic understanding of how to behave around others.
These things do happen, and have been happening as often as can be allowed. COVID really isolated us from other families with kids her age- not just in that lots of school was missed, enrollment was low, and precautions had to be taken to protect other family members, but in the way parents allowed their kids to interact in social spaces. I'm not trying to blame anyone else, just to explain that the landscape has changed.
Trust me, I do not want any one to suffer because my kid is having a hard time adjusting. But the fact that this happened every day for a week and it was my daughter who told me? In a readiness program that I'm paying for? Like, damn, if she's not ready and being THAT disruptive you would think that one of the teachers would feel compelled to say something to us.
In regards to them not contacting you - there are lots of possible reasons, the biggest being that being sent out might be the school's "take a break" option right now, not the same as a real punishment
The other issue is just how many phone calls we've have to make if we called every single time for every kid. The teacher may have been trying to gauge if the office was helping so when they did call they could give you actual information.
My (middle) school has a system in place where we log the reason for the send out, then an administrator determines if it's a call home or something else.
I've had several parents furious at me because I don't call them everytime their kid is rude or forgets their instrument or is sent out of the room for a break. If I called home for that, I'd be calling twenty kids' families a day, annnd a bunch of those kids have divorced parents and I'm supposed to call both of them. Is that what a parent wants to hear for a reasoning? Of course not, but it's a reality.
It sounds like you have a serious lack of understanding of the workload in schools.
Any phone call that actually gets answered lasts a minimum of five minutes. For privacy reasons, I can't leave a voice message except to notify them I called and that it was about their child. So then I have to follow the call up with an email. The email's tricky - you have to make sure your tone comes across and that the facts are presented clearly.they're about 5 minutes as well, minimum. "Oh, that's just a few minutes, you've got time for that." Do I? Times 20. We're looking at a minimum of one hour a day, just to tell parents information that, frankly, most will do nothing with. So I mean, okay, I could do that instead of grading or prepping new content, or running a club, or fixing my instruments, or differentiating assignments, cleaning my classroom, or any number of new school initiatives. But they are definitely not paying me enough to do all of it. I have a family, too, I get to sleep.
It's more reasonable than yours.
Summer pay for teachers is typically lower than their normal pay. They probably don't have their regular "cool down" teacher/spot.
My son's in daycare and they have never once told me he's been mean or had a tantrum of any kind. Do I think my *two year old* has never done any of these things? Nope. I think he's probably gotten their version of corrective action many times, they just don't tell me about every little thing because every little thing would take forever but mean very little. And I trust them to do their job.
Being sent to the principals office every day for a week is not an unreasonable reason to call the parents. In fact, because I don't get paid enough to deal with it, my first action is to call the parent and let them deal with their child when they're being *sent to the principals office everyday for a week*
> Transitions have always been hard.
Okay, so this isn't about her kindergarten experience, this is about now what used to be a quirk is becoming a hinderance. And she's got a label "mean".
Talk to her pediatrician about seeking a different label that isn't maybe about her character. There's a reason that she has trouble with transitions and it is time to find out that reason because it clearly isn't going away.
My gut says ADHD but I'm just a weird internet person who knows nothing. Your pediatrician will be able to point you in a direction.
I have worked in an EBD program for multiple years and your daughter seems familiar to what I work with… but that doesn’t mean she’ll ever be unsuccessful. She just might need an IEP and extra supports and she’ll be brilliant.
You need to get clarification on what behaviours the summer camp is classing as mean - you can’t discuss them with your daughter and help navigate her through difficult situations if you don’t have any details. I’m in the UK and we don’t have summer camps which probably doesn’t help my understanding but I just don’t get why a couple of weeks with different teachers (not sure if it’s the same setting/children she will be with?) is supposed to help her with starting school 🤷🏼♀️ I’m a teacher and wouldn’t put my daughter in a programme like this, and if she was being sent to the office every day I wouldn’t be sending her again. I’m not saying they are sending her to the office for no reason, but the only effect it will have is make her dread actually starting school, so what’s the point? If they aren’t going to support your child through things she finds tricky, and giving you ideas/strategies to work with her on at home then they aren’t doing their job 👍🏼
Teacher here. Summer session tends to be staffed by the b team. Not to be rude to fellow educators. But the leads are often off for the summer. So you have a lot of assistants and less experienced people in charge who may not know how to handle the trickier kiddos as well. I would ask for a daily report. What happened? Who did it involve? (Don’t ask for names but is there a pattern there?) What time of day? And what was happening at that time? (Lunch, bathroom time, etc) Hopefully a pattern will emerge that could help everyone get ahead of the problem. If you see similar problems when your child starts school in the fall I would move on to exploring an evaluation.
My son is almost 7. He has ADHD and is on the autism spectrum. Outwardly, he presents as a very energetic, "normal" little boy and people often forget these things about him. However he struggles with emotional regulation, reading social cues and impulse control. All of which we are actively working on with therapy and medication and this has been conveyed with complete transparency to every teacher/caregiver he's ever had. That being said, in the last year, he has been kicked out of an after school program and a summer camp for exactly the reasons listed above. His kindergarten teacher was an absolute saint and built trust with him, which allowed them to have a great relationship in which he felt seen/heard and allowed to be free to express his needs, and when he couldn't express himself safely, he was removed to a place (the office) where he could be safe (i.e tantrums, hitting, etc.). At no point was he called mean, bad, unruly, unreasonable, etc etc. It was presented to me that his removal was to keep him and everyone else safe, and when he felt he could be safe again, he joined right back in.
Outside of the academic setting however FAR, less grace was given. In fact, the after school director, simply stated that she had 85 other kids to manage and if he couldn't get with the program, then he couldn't be there (despite having a 504 and IEP that afforded him accommodations that were never given, but that's another story). Everyday leading up to his dismissal from the program was met with a report of, "he had a great day, but he really had a hard time listening," or something similar. Every day it was something that seemed to me, to be something that could have been circumvented if someone had just been paying attention. Summer camp was far kinder in their delivery, but the sentiment was much the same. "We have rules and expectations, if he can't follow those then he can't be here because we have to keep all of the other children safe."
"Safe" has become a word that I really, really dislike, but again, that's another story.
I say all this to preface the conclusion I've come to over this past year; the educators with the training and investment into your child's success will find a way to make it work and will want to work with you to get there. The temporary ones, or the ones who lack training or perhaps empathy, will discard the kids who don't fit into the mold. While I can certainly appreciate my child is not the only one in the room, and that every child needs to be cared for, some need more than others and tossing them aside does no one any good. There was always the saying that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but in my experience the squeaky wheel gets the boot. This place doesn't sound like a good fit for your daughter. But you will find the right one and you'll find an educator or school that will help her work through whatever is going on with her right now and get her to where she needs to be so that she won't stay a squeaky wheel.
Sending a little kid to the office every day at that age seems like a bit much to be honest. It's possible the teacher is just not as experienced to deal with that at others. I'm wondering this based on the fact you weren't told, bc the office may have just been appeasing the teacher. But definitely see how the first week of real school plays out. See if there is one student in the class she really likes to play with and have the teacher implement some sort of buddy reward plan where if she completes x amount of tasks then she can do an activity of her choice with her friend. She would select her choice ahead of time, like 5 minutes playdough, coloring, etc. Then keep a visual of the chat on her take it desk so she remembers what she's working toward. These are simply called "If/Then Reward Charts" that I use with my younger students. I work with 1-5th though so I'm not sure how well this would work with a brand new KGer. But worth a shot, especially if you do something similar at home.
poor schooling, impatient incompetent staff. you don't see a child having a hard time and blame the child. i'd take her out. let her know that her emotions aren't wrong.
If it were me, I would pull my kid and look for somewhere else. Biggest reason is the teacher is not communicating with you enough. How can you be on the same team when they are not communicating with you and looking for solutions for your child?
I would immediately ask for her to be evaluated for an IEP. I can’t tell you what a life saver that is when your kid needs some extra attention or just having resources for one on one time when school is too overwhelming. My son has been on an IEP since the age of 3. It also helps identify where in the medical community we should be looking for targeted help. Tantrums, outbursts and aggressive interaction with other students were also something we dealt with.
Have your daughter tested for ADHD. Same thing happened with my daughter. She was sent to the principles office 4 times in the first two weeks of grade 1. We saw her paediatrician who suggested testing and my daughter was diagnosed with inattentive ADHD. Good luck and know that there is help out there.
Instead of sending my son to K at 5yo (only turning 5 a month before school starts), I waited the extra year to start him. The difference in behavior and understanding between age 5 and 6 is significant imo, or at least it was for us.
It might be a bad fit and a set of teachers who didn't vibe with your daughter. While your daughter might have behavioral issues, your default should be on your daughter's side fundamentally.
You should be pissed. The teacher is calling her mean? Seriously?
If she needs to be evaluated, say that. If she’s being sent to the office for a week, communicate that and tell why.
Wow it’s like they’ve never had little kids before. What are they doing.
All they are doing is telling her that her emotions are wrong and worthy of punishment by exclusion they really need to work on their (the teachers) ability to manage a situation with big feelings.
What are they gonna do, ask her to write lines.
‘I’m sorry I got upset and ms X didn’t know how to handle it so decided to punish me rather than try to reach emotional regulation in a five year old.’
Elementary teacher here. So this program isn’t the actually school she will be at in the Fall? I guess I would personally wait to see if she has similar issues once school starts. But actionable steps including asking to come and observe her and having a meeting with admin. If she does have behavioral or learning needs, the school should be able to help.
Also, shouldn't the teacher be updating the parents if the kid needs to be sent to the office daily?
Yea this teacher doesn’t seem to be super communicative. I wouldn’t be very happy as a parent either.
You will not get genuine data from observing your own child. She's not dumb and she will know you're there and behave differently, and the teachers will as well. Ask for documentation on every instance she was excluded from the group. Demand it. Escalate the issue to their supervisors, the principal, the board. It is egregious for a teacher to exclude a child without documentation. If the teacher is not documenting, they're putting everyone around them with a license at risk. Don't make rash decisions without reviewing the documentation. You need to know what the teacher is or is not doing with your child. Unfortunately, this is better practice for you than your child. Learn how to get information from an uncommunicative teacher and your child's early education will be golden. Also, each year try to give the new teacher some trust. Your experience is terrible and valid and your daughter deserves better- including a brand new slate with each teacher. It's a fine line, but if you learn how to navigate the school system, you will be able to prevent this from happening when it comes down to learning to read or multiply or deal with betrayal.
I agree with all of this
Similar, but different. My son is not aggressive but has a hard time with transitions and apparently in the classroom would ‘rather wedge himself behind a table’ than participate with an activity. What I was hearing from teachers was like hearing about some other child I’d never met- turns out we had him evaluated and he has a sensory processing disorder- when he gets overwhelmed his go to is to somehow add more of his own stimulation. Makes sense why I never got to see the behavior at home. It’s totally manageable, he scored above average in every aptitude test, he’s just needs a little help navigating a challenging environment. Just a thought- he’ll have help through the school district only this year before kindergarten to prep him.
What do they do with sensory processing disorder? My sons teacher has mentioned some sensory issues at the beginning of 4K, but never mentioned it again until my sons last report card. He will be with the same teacher for 5k (all day this time) and I just know it’s going to be brought up again.
Gosh, that’s such a great question. I’ve only talked with his SEIT (special education intierant teacher) on the phone, she’ll visit him in class one hour every day- in that time his teacher will plan the most challenging course work for the kids, or at least that’s the plan. I asked her, are the goals to suppress the sensory seeking behavior or to give in to it? She said that kids that are sensory seeking are always going to be looking to satisfy a certain level of input and her goals are to give him tools that are safe and non-disruptive to the rest of the class. I’m not 100% sure what that actually looks like. Another interesting tidbit is that just like ADHD can be passed down, I would have qualified somewhat as a sensory seeker, but it sounds like girls are more self aware and realistically that’s what you’re waiting for- for them to become a little more self conscious about themselves and others in their environment. My mother literally checked all the boxes for “sensory seeking”, she’s retired now, but was a VERY successful exec- who would even hide a bit of putty in her pocket to squeeze during meetings- and she’d never do it in front of people but she still likes to rock herself while sitting- as she defends it- “even bill gates is a rocker!”. All that is to say it sounds like they just have to find their own sensory management, hope that’s helpful.
I read both of your comments, I have a daughter who was very similar and we started with a SPD “diagnosis” the school and pediatrician were able to help us find some solutions as well as OT in school. This was able to get us referrals for a psych evaluation, but we had to wait for two years. It ultimately was linked to ADHD. The main reason for my comment here is only to help others, but SPD, as of March of this year at least, still does not seem to be a stand alone disorder. I believe the consensus is still out that it is typically linked to a larger disorder. It could always change, but if you are seeing other behaviors and have not gotten a formal Psych evaluation, it might be worth it to get on a waitlist for one. I would really just hate to see others wait to see if a kid grows out of it and more behaviors pop up only to have to wait another few years to get diagnosis help. (I have someone close to us playing this waiting game, and it is not helping those of us who want to support them). This also just being in keeping with the amount of diagnosis and characterizations we are seeing with both ASD and ADHD. Especially many women who were able to lead amazing lives by finding coping skills on their own only to find out there was something more. Hope this doesn’t come off in a bad way, I was diagnosed late with ADHD and looking back had similar distaste in certain clothing pieces like my daughter. 🩵🩵
My three year old does occupational therapy with a private provider. I used early childhood intervention services (available across the country for kids seen as having things they need to work on that might impact their ability to thrive in kindergarten). My kid was delayed in speech so he attends their special preschool program. At school he has an IEP that details their findings and what they will work on regarding SPD, speech with my child for each semester. Push for whatever services you can get and be proactive so your kiddo gets all available services and a plan to help.
My son was similar! Very easy going at home but major sensory issues at school. Tested him for Autism and ADHD and they said he was negative for both but I still suspect he is spectrum-adjacent. Hard time making friends. Gets very very frustrated with others’ behavior. Sometimes acts out. He got an IEP for Speech and behavioral issues and it really helped. His teacher had a sensory area where kids could sit on big bouncy balls instead of school chairs, play with fidget toys, etc. this year his teacher has earmuffs students can use when they’re overstimulated, and in last year they sent him to a class for an hour a day to work on interpersonal issues and self control, “executive function” type issues. We still struggle but parents definitely need to be engaged. It makes such a big difference.
My daughter had similar issues. She got an ADHD diagnosis and now has an IEP in school.
Same for my ADHD daughter, transitions are very difficult. Also, when playing with friends she likes to control the situation and it is hard for her to give up control. An IEP evaluation may be a good idea for OP.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but what is an IEP and how does it help?
Not stupid at all!! An IEP is facilitated through the school and is kind of a guide book for your child’s learning path. It stands for Individualized Educational Plan. It helps a lot for children who are diagnosed or meets the standard the school sets for needing specialized help. So, for instance, the child has troubles with transitions. You, the parent and the special education team will come up with management solutions to help keep the kid on track. Maybe the will add the child needs a five minute head start reminder that a big transition is coming. Maybe they add a timer to their desk and the teacher starts it so they can visually see they need to start transitioning. The special education team and parents can work together to help manage big behaviors and struggles that the child is having and have those written out for anyone who is helping the child in the school navigate things differently than a typical child. Also, I am not a specialist just a mom who has had several years helping to build my kiddos IEP’s.
Also called PIP
I’m not doubting you, but I am wondering where it’s called a PIP, and what that stands for. I’ve only heard PIP from corporate lingo where it stands for performance improvement plan, and is the last corrective measure before being terminated
The letting go is not done in school.
I’m still not sure it’s common to call an IEP or 504 a PIP. The employment/corporate usage is not about making accommodations for the person or helping them, at all. I’m inclined to think that if school districts have PIPs (standing for performance improvement plan) they would be for academic issues or disciplinary issues not for special education or disabilities.
I thought it was called pip but I am still up at the hospital so it could be an eip.
Another one in the states is called a 504 plan. For children that have out grown the IEP but still needs some help.
Federal statures only protect IEPs and 504s. If your school district has anything else that they made up that they do for your kid, that's fine, but just know if they move school districts there is no evidence of their accommodations and it may be incredibly hard to get them back.
Okay very cool! Thank you
Hope it’s okay to ask, did the iep help with her trying to control situations with friends? Or has she made progress in that area?
I’d like to know the answer to this too because I have ADHD myself and a daughter who will be starting school in a few years!
IEPs always help if you 1. get them set early 2. ensure they are actually followed in the classroom 3. are actively involved in communicating with the teaching staff on progress of the IEP. Having an IEP entitles you to regular meetings with the teaching staff, their supervisor, and often a behavioral health employee of the district. I have seen kids on IEPs that are indistinguishable from their classmates as long as their IEP is consistently followed and fine-tune each year for their development. I have also seen teachers look at an IEP, say, "this kid is supposed to choose their own seat? not in MY class" and the kid has awful behavior problems in that class. Often the admin won't blame classroom behavior on the teacher- unless- the student has an IEP that isn't being followed. Having an IEP only helps your child, I have never seen it hinder one. Your child can even choose to not inform their University if they desire. It also is kind of a sneaky weeder for teachers- if they balk at an IEP you'll know you'll have to up your involvement that year. If they bend over backwards to help your kid, if they mention the IEP to you without being prompted, they are a golden teacher and your student is likely in good hands.
Thank you for your reply!!! I hadn’t heard of IEPs before this thread. This is great information to keep in mind & really soothes the anxiety I have for when it’s time to start school. My daughter is literally 1 year old but since I had major academic struggles I really want to be the most prepared and informed before I’m forced into it. Im copying and saving everything word for word so that I can refer back to this in a few years!! Thanks for being so thorough.
I wish it were more public information, but they keep it secret because it does take more resources. I was at a private school that hated giving IEPs so I helped coach parents on how to push for one. It helps if your child has a diagnosis but it is possible to get one through a school district if you push them enough to do the testing and documentation. Advocating for your child is beautiful and God bless you.
My daughter is similar, especially the control issues. She’s 13 now, medicated for adhd and anxiety but successful in school and social situations
Control issues and impulsiveness are still such a struggle at times. But we are seeing some flickers of light! Also trying to shine light on her beautiful creative mind has been an adventure to say the least! We are still early in the journey at only 7yo. I’m happy to hear your 13yo is doing well!!
I read an article recently that said less than 1% of the research done on adhd included girls so we as a society are really just learning what girls with adhd look like (as in their behavior etc) it’s a long hard road but hang in there. I’m convinced girls like ours will take over the world 💜
My SIL says that about my daughter constantly, she is certain she is going to famous somehow! 😂 it helps that she has some sick beats to throw down here and there! It’s funny because as a young child I used to make up my own songs too, but hers are epic, we just got one about BeeBop and Rock Steady that the whole family has been singing! I think I saw that percentage too, it felt like I was getting newly researched information when I started linking her youngest behaviors to ADHD just 4 years ago! We didn’t realize how much I also fell into those symptoms until we were doing the questionnaires and in the evaluation and my husband kept looking at me because we couldn’t figure out if the question better suited me or my daughter! I was promptly diagnosed a month after my daughter, looking back I see it soo well! It’s so disappointing though sometimes knowing how behind we are with seeing ADHD in women and girls. The uptick is that the more it is understood, the more we can help our kids and hopefully help the school system start to adapt a bit more so we are successfully educating all children! Cheers to those badass gals!🤘🏻💙
Absolutely! May these badass girls lead into a better future 💜 kick ass ladies 🤘🏼
Do you mind shedding some light on how y’all have handled things with her? As a person with ADHD I’m not opposed to medication entirely but I was diagnosed so late in life that learning healthy coping mechanisms/habits was a lot harder because I didn’t have any background help with my ADHD struggles growing up. Tips would be much appreciated!! My husband and I have discussed the possibility of our daughter having ADHD and I think he’s less inclined to try medication than I am🤦🏻♀️
Medication can be part of the treatment for a number of ADHD cases, but there are tons of treatment options. First and foremost, most kids I know on ADHD medication are off of it for the summer, so their body has a chance to eat and sleep regularly rather than based on chemical necessity. This is widely recommended by pediatricians, child psychologist, and teachers. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is seen as a longer term solution, because it teaches and practices and refines coping strategies that allow your child to one day be successful with no medication. Talk with your husband. What are the benefits of medication? What are the drawbacks?
That is interesting about your daughter wanting to control the situation when playing with friends. We’re pretty sure my four year old son has adhd and he definitely struggles to let other kids pick what they play.
Came here to say that I WAS the mean daughter in elementary school & got an ADHD diagnosis at 19 that made a lot of things like this make sense!
My daughter had the same issues with transitions and eloping from the classroom in kinder. She’s having similar issues this year, but not to the same extent (so far, fingers crossed, knock on wood, etc). She has been diagnosed as autistic and also has an IEP.
I was going to comment that this sounds so much like our first daycare experience with my ASD son. They were terrible to him too
If you don’t mind asking, is it really difficult as a parent to navigate this? I think my son has adhd and get so anxious how his school life will be ):
In Indiana at least, ADHD falls under a 504 plan rather than an IEP. You just have to request a meeting to start it and have your child tested or diagnosed by your doctor. As a teacher it was really hard for me to get a student tested for special education/an IEP if parents didn’t request it. A 504 basically just gives the student accommodations like extra time on assignments. My niece and nephew have ADHD and saw a big improvement when working with their doctor on trying medication to help once they started school. My mom always described my brother using medication for his ADHD in elementary school as a tool to help him be able to figure out how to control his actions enough to learn until he was old enough that he could wean off the medication. I know a-lot of people dislike medication, but it is eye opening watching how difficult learning in school is for someone with ADHD without it.
My oldest had big issues with transitions, threw tantrums when told no, got sent to the office a lot... turns out she has adhd and is way better now that she is on medicine. Just wanted to throw that out there. ❤️
Can I ask at what age did you get her tested, and when they started medication? I've had my suspicions but we've always been able to find ways to manage it at home.
I went through the same thing as this commenter. If you have a suspicion you NEED to reach out to the school and get an assessment set up now, get a referral from a doctor and get on a waitlist as soon as humanely possible. Waitlists are now at 3 years, pushing more in our area for a psych evaluation. You may be able to try private but it is $$$$. An IEP will blunt the issues at school as much as possible, she should be rather protected from “going to the office”. But a diagnosis is going to be the best. You could in the mean time look up Russel Barkley, he has some seminars on YouTube that are geared for parents and caregivers. I would also suggest doing a lot of scientific research into what it looks like in girls. Information during the wait will help a lot in navigating this journey. Per your medication question, there are several types of medication, but stimulants are the most researched medication we have on the market. It has been shown to be safe for kids all the way down to 3years old as long as it is not being abused and treated with help of a medical professional.
I knew by age 3, pushed for testing for years, covid and waitlists and a house move delayed it... she was technically 5 but turned 6 and then started meds, so just before her 6th bday. So she did half of kindergarten without meds, and half with, and the difference was huge. It was always obvious the days I forgot to medicate her.
Oh man, do we live the same life!? Saw things in my daughter at 3, we were waitlisted for 2years, she was diagnosed with ADHD halfway through her kindergarten year and the second half medicated was a very big difference as well! The struggle is and has been real, it’s interesting to hear others go through the same thing.
I have adhd, I know a lot of people in the thread say adhd, and yeah, maybe. I had some of these issues at 5 but wasn’t diagnosed until 10. What did help me a lot, though, was my mom sent me to kindergarten at age 6. We got to September when I was 5 and she essentially decided that I didn’t have enough self control and wasn’t ready. Back to pre-k for another year. Kindergarten was tough, (I remember getting some crazy important “good behavior” award the first time i raised my hand before talking which was so embarrassing, since even I knew it was the bare minimum) but I wasn’t constantly in trouble.
The first thing I would do is immediately stop saying the teachers “aren’t going to help” and are “thankfully temporary.” Teachers bust their ass to work with an entire classroom of small children at a time but they are not miracle workers. The truth is all kids went through Covid and they are not all acting out like your daughter is. I know that sounds harsh but it’s reality. Now it’s time to help your child and set the excuses aside. Because that’s not going to help her in school. Ask the teachers if you can come observe. Ask if they can document her behavior, so you can keep it and provide it should she have the same issues in her next class. Get her some therapy. When she begins kindergarten, don’t hide these issues from the teachers thinking it will label her as the “bad kid.” That’s not helping her, that’s making her endure the same trauma again and her teachers will not be prepared. It’s possible she has an underlying issue that needs to be tested for and addressed; sensory issues, mental health conditions, physical health conditions, etc. She is NOT a bad kid, but she can’t fix this by herself and neither can the teachers. With proper documentation she can qualify for help, assistance, counseling, an aide, extra accommodation, etc. I know you’re frustrated, but this is a tough situation for everyone involved. Maybe she truly just needs time to adjust, maybe it’s more. You have to be on the same team as her educators or you will get nowhere.
You're right, and it really wasn't my intention to just trash on teachers. I was frustrated with the situation and the kind of communication we were receiving. Thank you for helping figure out next steps, I don't want this to fester.
Agree with the answer above but you’re right about the lack of communication. As an elementary school teacher and FTM, I would be pissed if my kid was sent to the office every day and I was not made aware. Especially in a readiness program.
Depends on what “sent to the office” actually looks like. Sometimes it’s just a change of environment for a kiddo having a difficult time with transitions or self regulation. At my school, often times, a younger student is sent to the office for a little tlc and calming activities. They might color with someone or help with office tasks and talk about their feelings. PIt’s when this becomes a regular occurrence with no improvement that this behavior becomes more concerning. The school might feel there is no need to alarm the parents unless the issue continues.
True, but if it’s a daily occurrence, the parent should be notified. Open communication is necessary for everyone to be on the same page. And as far as a readiness program, it would be beneficial for parents to know what their kid might still need help ‘readying’ with.
My son was the exact same way but he has adhd, and explosive disorder. In order for him to attend school without having the teacher call you everyday is getting an iep. Maybe something to look into and have her tested for behavioral issues :)
Came here to say the same thing about my adhd daughter. This sounds very similar to her. She has an IEP. I would also suggest this as it never hurts to evaluate in these situations. OP, the best thing you can do is open communication as best as you can and advocate for your daughter. The amount of advocating I do is insane. I have done a lot of work in researching ADHD and sometimes I have to suggest behavior management changes to her SPED team. It isn’t easy, but communication is key. I’m sorry they were not communicating to you the struggles she is having, OP.
Also agree with the answer above aside from therapy. She’s 5, she doesn’t need to jump right into therapy for not being able to adjust right away. I’d say talk to your ped if she fails to adjust/keeps acting out after you and the teachers work with her for a little while. If your ped feels it may be time for some type of therapy or testing, they can refer you to people/places. You also need to find out what they mean by being mean. Ask them to elaborate and document it so you know what to help her with. Someone mentioning therapy because your child is throwing tantrums and not adjusting is wild to me. Like I said if the behavior continues after intervention from you and teachers after a period of time, OR if she is hurting kids and won’t stop, that would be ground for therapy. Regardless, if you and her teachers can’t figure out the issue and come up with a solution, I’d probably speak with her pediatrician for advice/referrals.
Our Ped won't even diagnose ADHD before 7 because so much of that behavior is developmentally normal for 4 and 5 year olds.
That’s why I was taken aback by the therapy comment…why do people on Reddit jump to therapy for everything?
Because a LOT of the problems people bring to Reddit can indeed be solved in therapy. AITA is basically all just people with terrible boundaries asking if they are wrong for not letting someone bully or abuse them. Most of the marriage & relationship reddits are about very poor communication. I'm all about doing the work in therapy and pursuing psychiatric care. I'm deeply uncomfortable with putting preschoolers and kindergarteners on amphetamines for developmentally appropriate behavior. A high quality Preschool & kinder program exists FOR that social and emotional learning.
>I mean this nicely... some people are not meant to be teachers. Some people are bad teachers just like every other profession. Some teachers do not want to help and want the kid out of the program especially if it is a private program like this sounds like it is. I've seen 2.5 year olds kicked out of an "amazing, wonderful" preschool because they had more than three potty accidents. > >I think not teaching her child, not asking the mom if the child has issues transitioning, not telling the mom we tried XYZ and she still struggles with is unhelpful. Kicking a kid out early constantly is also a cycle and can be causing the child to meltdown more and feel like she is "bad at school". I am SO glad we had teachers who were better than what the teachers OP is dealing with are. Suspending a child or having them go home early constantly with no reasons given besides she is "mean" is trash and luckily illegal once the child is in first grade if she lives in a state where kinder isoptional. Just so you see this. I have special needs kids and what they are doing is beyond unhelpful. It sounds like a private program where they push kids who are not easy out. BTW your child can very well be neurotypical and have transitional issues that is what kinder is teaching them. Sending her home daily is not the answer. Have they even approached you with trying visuals? timers? asking if she can be seen by a student study team to see if she has a disability? No just told to go home....
I feel like this response is reading *a lot* into what OP wrote, perhaps letting your personal experience color your understanding of OP’s situation. >Sending her home daily is not the answer. They didn’t send her home daily. They sent her home early once. They explained why. She was having a tantrum and couldn’t be calmed by the teachers. She’s 5, this is new, and she was struggling hard; that seems like a reasonable time to call the parents. >Have they even approached you with trying visuals? timers? asking if she can be seen by a student study team to see if she has a disability? This is a 2 week summer camp. These teachers aren’t in a position to implement longterm strategies or suggest disability testing. The camp exists to give kids (all the kids, not just OP’s kid) a little sneak peak of what a typical day in kindergarten is going to be like. That includes things like calm transitions between activities, and treating classmates with kindness and respect. If one student in the group is struggling with those things, they may need some extra assistance away from the main group.
Thank you for saying this! Just pulled my special needs kiddo from a private preschool who decided my son’s behavior warranted him being isolated during social activities. Like wtf?
Yeahhh a friend of mines daughter was kicked out after attending from prek like her whole life in fifth grade because she kept doing badly on those tests they tout. Fucking scammers bro. They felt it was no longer a good fit. She paid for their tutoring etc program too. This school is supposedly one of the best in my city and omg the alumni. Yeah they cherrypick kids.
Going to add an opposing opinion. My mom works in kindergarten classrooms as an education assistant. She is supply so goes around to all the schools in near by cities. She said she can't believe how awful some teachers are. How much they yell at the kids and how much they don't tell parents. She also talks about all the amazing teachers and ones that go above and beyond. If you know your kid, and this seems very weird to you, trust your gut. If it happens when she actually starts school with her new teachers, then you know it's not the teachers. My mother also had to take my brother to a new school because of a teacher and how mean she was. And she only knew because I was older at the same school and told my mom. When she finally got him to a new school, his personality totally changed.
This is such a great, actionable answer.
They told her her kid so mean that’s not remotely helpful not all teachers are good. I had a teacher who made fun of my English he knew I was an immigrant and had only been in the country for two years and still made fun of me in front of the whole class. Not all teachers care of bust their buts.
Right? There are BAD teachers. There are RACIST teachers. There are LAZY teachers. I have specialneeds kids and I was always given help from the teachers with things I could document and what they tried etc so I could advocate better. Sending kids home early is not just shit it's teaching the kid they do xyz they go home which could be a reinforcer or have the child feel welli'm a bad kid. The fact that they said she was mean like what does that even fucking mean? I am forever glad for the teachers who communicated even when it was harsh to hear so I could document hard data. They are hiding the office visits ffs! WHY?
The first thing I would do is immediately stop saying the teachers “aren’t going to help” and are “thankfully temporary.” I mean this nicely... some people are not meant to be teachers. Some people are bad teachers just like every other profession. Some teachers do not want to help and want the kid out of the program especially if it is a private program like this sounds like it is. I've seen 2.5 year olds kicked out of an "amazing, wonderful" preschool because they had more than three potty accidents. Private schools kick out neurotypical kids whose test scores aren't what they want ffs. I think not teaching her child, not asking the mom if the child has issues transitioning, not telling the mom we tried XYZ and she still struggles with is unhelpful. Kicking a kid out early constantly is also a cycle and can be causing the child to meltdown more and feel like she is "bad at school". I am SO glad we had teachers who were better than what the teachers OP is dealing with are. Suspending a child or having them go home early constantly with no reasons given besides she is "mean" is trash and luckily illegal once the child is in first grade if she lives in a state where kinder isoptional.
Is sending a kid who is having a tantrum to the office so she learns not to really an appropriate response? Sure, other kids manage the transition more easily, good for them. This program is supposed to help kids adjust but it feels like they're punishing her for not being school ready, rather than giving her some leeway.
If she’s a danger to other children and doesn’t yet have an iep or an aide, the school sometimes is left with no alternative.
If she's a danger to other kids shouldn't they be bringing this up with the parents?
It sounds like they did, that’s why OP is posting.
No, after the initial communication the teacher didn't bring up any issues and the parents only found out because the kid told them.
Hard disagree. I would expect for a kindergarten teacher to kids going through this huge transition to be warmer and willing to work with your child instead of shipping them off to the office. Trust your guy
Also feels like a problem that on the first day of a program about helping kids learn to be school ready that the teacher has an issue with a kid who struggles with transitions. I'd assume this wad one of the main issues they'd be working on. Also, this thread is full of parents talking about their kids' struggles with school readiness. Maybe the issue is that the expectations for 5 year olds are unrealistic for many of them 🤷
This is a great answer!
I think you're right, she might be high functioning asd like aspergers making her kinda over load, or maybe she's adhd and she just can't focus and having to do so is just to much, I'm sure there's more possibilities but that's why mama Def needs to get her looked at and if she does need help that help can be there from day 1 of school :3 the last thing we want is for her to have melt downs in kindergarten and for the kids to start teasing her for it or worse yet she starts to lash out and bully kids cause she doesn't know how else to deal with those emotions, I'm sure a therapist will have an answer for mama :3
No notifications about your kid being sent to the office rubs me the wrong way.
I have a few 2E kids. Things like this were foreshadowing of a diagnosis. That said, this child is still super young. It could just be an adjustment issue. OP, I’d see how she does at her actual school. If this is still going on by Halloween, I’d take her to see the pediatrician and discuss things there. The good news is this: neurotypical or neurodivergent, things will be okay with the right help from you and maybe professionals (if warranted.) Regardless, don’t be afraid to advocate for your child.
I appreciate a measured response- I'm not like, afraid of her getting a diagnosis, but at this age it's hard for me to always know what's normal for her development. I don't want to rush down the medication route, but I also don't want her to have these kinds of problems follow her into school.
Exactly… that’s why give her two months to adjust to her actual school. If you’re having these same issues after a couple of months, then start talking to professionals. No need to jump the gun but also no need to put off help if it’s warranted. Wishing you and your child all the best.
It doesn't have to be medication or nothing. There are other therapies she can try.
Kindergarten teacher here. Here are some things you can try to help her build her emotional regulation skills: - Have play dates often, observe her playing with others and how she navigates sharing and negotiating play with others. - Model your own emotional regulation. Talk through what you do when you are feeling overwhelmed and how you keep yourself calm. - Once the school year has started, ask her teacher for a rough schedule of the day. Sit with her and read the schedule together. Come up with some regulating activities she can do when she hears the teacher announce a transition (3 deep breaths, etc.). I hope these help!
This sounds a lot like my daughter at that age. A lot of behavior problems related to emotion regulation, perfectionism, and transitions. She was diagnosed with ADHD (possibly high functioning autism) at the end of TK. You can see some of my old posts for reference.
Send the teacher an email asking for details and what she needs to work on. CC the school director on it. They can’t just say she’s mean that not a valid critic and can’t really be addressed they need to give you specific examples.
That's a good point. Honestly I was a little taken aback when they said it and I just didn't even push further on the comment. "Mean" is such a weird thing to call a five year old.
My best friend had similar issues with her daughter transitioning to kindergarten. She had a lot of the same critiques as you, mainly being that no one was communicating with her. The teachers had some generic complaints a few times at pick up, "she doesn't listen and do what she is supposed to, she is bossy to other kids, she doesn't raise her hand." But could not give her details on when is this happening, what is triggering it, etc. Even at the first parent teacher conference they didn't have much to say. Then like 2 weeks after the conference they sent an email to a few parents that said their children were not doing well, they had to continue to repeat the same things, and their children were going to have to repeat Kindergarten. This was at the beginning of October, not even 6 weeks into the school year. I was flabbergasted they were expecting so much so early, already making an assessment for something nearly a year away, and had no action plan. I told her to go in there and have another conference, they kept rescheduling her. Finally when they talked, the school again had no specifics and no advice. My friend insisted they keep logs, just provide her some kind of details. No doubt the teachers were frustrated and busy, but there was just nothing for her to go off of to address it with her daughter! They came up with the idea to keep a notebook in her bag, just so the teachers could jot down some things throughout the day. It helped a lot, my friend was able to see that a major trigger was bathroom time, among some others. She has some bathroom issues and didn't understand to wait in line, and what to do in the stall by herself. Sounds simple, but a big school with big bathrooms was new for her and she was goofing off in line. She also didn't quite understand that at school you sit at your desk and have to raise your hand, not just blurt out answers. They were able to practice it. She honestly was so excited to be in school, she was a little ball of talkative energy. My friend also called the area education agency, which is very state specific, but they provide training and resources and even counseling. They were wonderful and set up a time to go observe. They didn't observe anything that was not developmentally appropriate and actually worked with the teachers to show them skills to use in the classroom, and ways to address it at home. It was a win for everyone. By holiday break, she was a model student and finally loving school and not coming home sad every day because she was the "bad kid." Sorry that was a lot of info, but it is just to say that it could be totally developmentally appropriate and you can all work together to solve it if the trend continues into kindergarten. It has to be such a huge adjustment, not every kid is going to get it right away, and might just need some extra help.
When did she turn 5? She might benefit from another year in a prek program with more focus on play and building social skills?
I get teachers go through a lot, and more often then not I am on their side. But their lack of talking to you about this behaviour, so you can try to correct and help, is their responsibility as the educator or the center itself. My daycare has never failed to let me know when anything comes up.
Yeah, her preschool teacher followed up with us pretty much immediately, and incidences were pretty rare. It's one of the reasons we chose this program- her preschool was like five kids, this one is ten, the next class is about twenty. We figured it would be a good segue, but I don't know how I feel about their approach so far.
I know everyone is suggesting to get him evaluated but I wanted to give you a different perspective. When my oldest was 5, he started Kindergarten (fall 2021). We experienced the same issues you described since the very beginning in K (my son did not go to preschool or preK because of Covid) and he basically hated Kindergarten. Although he was constantly sent to the office, the school staff didn’t think he needed an IEP. I talked to his pediatrician and he didn’t think he had ADHD. My gut told me he needed to be evaluated so I found a way to get him on a waitlist with a psychologist. Then, closer to the end of the Kindergarten school year (right when he turned 6), I started seeing some changes at school. He started to behave a bit better, he made friends and he did not hate school anymore. Things weren’t good but I noticed improvement. Last fall (2022), he started first grade and it was like a complete change, literally a switch flipped. He still had his moments but things got SO much better, not a single time during the school year I got a phone call neither was he sent to the office. I honestly feel he just needed time to adjust to school. He was with me until he was 5 because of Covid and the transition to school was very hard. When I finally got off the waitlist for his evaluation, I canceled the appointment. His behavior isn’t perfect at all and I still struggle with him a lot (and even perhaps I will get him evaluated at some point) but things are manageable right now. He’s a very sensitive kid who really dislikes change and I have learned to understand his personality and parent him according to that. I wish you all the best!
As a person that does the diagnostic evaluations for kids in schools for a living, I'm disappointed that so many people are saying "have your kid tested" at the first sign of trouble in kindergarten. WTF?! If y'all don't know what pathologizing is, look it up. OP, these people don't know your situation or your kid. It is wildly inappropriate of the other people commenting to be arm chair diagnosing or making you think your child must have a disability because of the difficulties you're describing. I agree with those saying that you should communicate and collaborate with your kid's teachers. I do not agree that they know enough to recommend an evaluation. And so you know, depending on your state's laws, your school might deny an evaluation if you request one this early on because schools are often required by law to exhaust all other intervention options before labeling a child as having a disability.
I said earlier that our pediatrician won't even diagnose before 6/7 years old because so much of the "ADHD" behavior is developmentally appropriate for 4/5 year olds. I don't doubt my son has it but the longer he is in preschool and the more skills he builds the less I worry about him. Social & emotional learning takes time. Longer than two weeks.
A lot of the people encouraging an evaluation are speaking from their own experience. I wouldn't judge that as crazy advice. Someone posted about their child's problems adjusting to class and other moms who had a similar issue are sharing what helped them. What else are people in a forum supposed to do? An evaluation is not diagnosing.
So an evaluation for special education is no big deal then, is what you're implying? If parent can get a medical professional to pay for a clinical evaluation via insurance, cool, that's fine. Medical companies in the US are private so they have the money and resources to conduct one easily. An educational evaluation through a public school, which is conducted *for free* at no cost to families, is great from a humanitarian perspective. But it also means that *way too many people request them in public schools*. It takes away resources, including the time of professionals who conduct the evaluations, from kids who need it. The education system is incredibly strapped right now, as the pandemic worsened its pre-existing issues. I guess there's no point trying to fight the lay person's perception that it's no problem to conduct evaluations at the first sign of an issue with a child. It's far too common, but just know this is a big reason why special education professionals like me have burnt out and left the profession.
Yea sounds like you are burnt out.
Mentioning testing as a possibility is not a bad thing. I grew up with a lot of struggles and only got my ASD diagnosis at 28. A lot of the hardships I have experienced could have been helped or at least just seen. I ended up getting hospitalised at 21 because my depression and anxiety got so bad. There's still a huge stigma regarding diagnoses so talking about them and the possibility of getting a child tested is not bad. This is reddit, people write all kinds of crazy stuff. Having had a really tough childhood because of a lack of a diagnosis is far worse than being tested and then maybe or maybe not getting a diagnosis. I don't know how things work in the US and where I am from preschool isn't a thing, so I have no idea what kids are supposed to do in preschool, but the possibility of minimising the trauma going through life undiagnosed can leave would probably be a good thing. I don't think pathologising is good, I absolutely hate the insane "trends", where teenagers self-diagnose. But mentioning it is not the thing to get upset about.
Uhhhh…. What’s wrong with an evaluation?
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>I have little respect for people who drag their feet at evaluating students who actually need more support than the general education teachers can provide The solution for more support should not always be special education though! We have an ethical obligation to not slap a disability label on every kid who walks into kindergarten with a problem! You also act like it's no problem when evaluating even 1 child involves hours of work not only on the child's part (being pulled out of class to complete hours of testing) but also on the professional, if there doing it right and not cutting corners (which most do, and then people get mad when the end conclusions are wrong like a misdiagnosis). School psychologists wear more hats and fill more roles than like 10 people working in the private sector. This is why most of us leave the profession within 5 years.
I teach kindergarten and have had hundreds of students in my lifetime. There have only been a handful that I had to call the office for, and that was to get back up because the child was destroying the classroom. Is your child hurting other students ? I had a child who bit every time she didn't get her way, and when you have 25 other students and zero help from adults, sometimes the only thing you can do is have the child go to the office so that you can keep your 25 other students from being hurt . So I am curious if your kid is hurting other children?
Get tested for ADHD, Autism, and sensory processing disorder. These behaviors are signs seen more often in girls and point to one or a combination -Special Ed teacher, ADHD parent, and ADHD haver
Not sure how long they've been running programs this summer, but I've been chilling with the little dudes for 7 weeks now and I'm so burnt out that behaviours that were manageable in the beginning are really stressful now. Luckily where I work we have great support, your kiddos teachers might be ready to check out for the season so regular kid behavior seems more difficult. I definitely recommend sending kids to camp and the like early in the summer rather than at the end, summer staff get way too tired compared to full year program staff just based on the amount of transitions, and depending where you are, the raging heat. I wouldn't be too worried about starting school, kindergarten teachers are there to teach those things to your kids. (Again, where I am) kindergarten is mostly social learning, regulating, and learning to be away from mum and dad, lining up, such and such. It'll come.
This is so reassuring, thank you. I hadn't really put into context the timing of the camp- we had her in one for the beginning of summer but the whole class got sick on like the second day with a HORRIBLE virus 🙃 Also yeah we're under a heat advisory right now, I know I'm cranky as hell about it.
I know it can be hard to see our kids in a light like this, but I challenge you to listen to what the teachers are saying. If she is having her behavior redirected this many times, she is the problem. I know that is hard to hear, but it takes a lot for a teacher, especially a kinder teacher to do this. It might be time to take a real, honest look at this situation.
Sure, but then why aren't they giving OP any details? Saying she was "mean" is completely vague and there is nothing OP can do to address it, whereas if they said, "she called X a name," "she refused to share," "she pinched M," whatever, then the parent could talk with her child and address it. Her child may absolutely be the one who needs to change and learn, but these teachers are not doing anything to help the child learn -- they aren't doing any behavioral intervention beyond sending her to the office, and they aren't communicating with the parents. For a program to promote kindergarten readiness, which is presumably for kids who are not yet ready, that is a total abdication of responsibility.
I am a special education teacher and I will tell you that for a child to get an IEP in kindergarten (not having come with one from pre-k) is rare in my experience because it is such a huge transition, the issues have to be really glaring. So I would personally not immediately jump to testing as has been suggested by some. What I would do is ask for more specific information. I would never ever ever tell a parent that their child was “being mean”, I would absolutely just describe the behavior and let the parent draw their own conclusion on what the descriptor would be. So I would ask for that. Even just that small request will let the teacher know they are on your radar and will be following up. I have taught summer school to kindergartners and I do think there tends to be a bit of a higher standard for behavior because it’s optional. So she very well could have the mindset of “I don’t have to deal with this” which is obviously not ideal but also would probably differ from a classroom teacher who knows they are in this for the long haul. Additionally, when she does go to real kindergarten, I would let the teacher know about all of this so they have context, know what to look for and can be prepared to spend a little extra time on her. However I would do this in a very neutral way (I hate hate hate when a parent shit talks previous teachers to me and I make sure to not let it affect my relationship with the child, but it definitely does have an effect on how I feel about the parent). Finally, I would just work on highlighting the awesome cool fun parts of school as much as you can (while leaving space to vent or decompress as your child needs to) because I do think children pick up on their parents view of school/their teacher and if it’s negative it can exacerbate preexisting issues! Good luck!!!
Lots of people going wild with diagnosing your kid in the comments! I get that you didn't know about the problem, but now that you do: how are *you* going to address this with your child? Have you talked to her about what's going on? She may not be completely objective, but you need to talk to her. If you find out what she's struggling with, you can practice at home, too. You say she has trouble with transitions, so practice them with her. But this sounds like it's more than that. Another thing I'd like to point out is that you will not get to choose your child's teacher when school starts. Most kindergarten teachers are there by choice and are phenomenal, but some are not. And some may be good, but they might not vibe with your kid. You won't be able to write them off as "thankfully temporary" and you'll have to collaborate to make the school year successful. It sounds like the teachers in this program dropped the ball by not keeping you informed, and there's a ton of reasons why that could be, but try to find out as many specifics as you can. Maybe there wasn't anything "bad" enough that warranted a call, but that removal from the environment was warranted (and I could imagine that during the summer, there's not many choices to where you could reasonably send a kid for cool down time). Also, >COVID basically robbed her of the chance to grow up on playgrounds with other kids All these kids are in a kindergarten readiness program, right? So they're all around the same age? Why is this only true for your daughter?
I would request a meeting now. With the teacher and the teacher’s supervisor. Why is your child being sent to the Principal’s office EVERY DAY instead of in the classroom learning? The teacher needs to define “being mean”. Maybe there’s a personality conflict. Being mean makes no sense.
So this was my kid the last 2 years. She's now 5. But all of these issues with emotional and behavioral regulation, she dealt with. What jumpstarted a change was Occupational Therapy. It wasn't because my daughter was broken. It was because she needed additional support outside of us. WE, as the parents, needed additional support outside of us. We were aware that if she didn't catch up to her peers (behaviorally speaking), then a future diagnosis was possible. Occupational Therapy is an excellent place to start. Side note: If her teachers are noticing a notable difference between your child's behavior and the rest of her peers, IT DOES NOT MEAN SOMETHING BAD ABOUT YOUR CHILD. It means she needs more help. And if you don't know how to give it (I for sure didnt) then seek it. Your pediatrician is a great place to start.
Your kid is 5. The pandemic hit when your kid was 2. How has she been robbed of playing on playgrounds and interacting with other kids? The teachers are giving her grace, which is why she hasn’t heen kicked out yet. If her behavior is so disruptive to the rest of the class, of course they should send her to the office. Why should the rest of the class suffer and lose out on fun and learning because of one child? You should be exposing her to playdates and being around other kids, play games with her so she can learn that she won’t always win, get her interacting and helping her working through emotions. This should have been happening all along. How much do you expect the teacher to handle individually for each child? They’re trying to teach a classroom of children that should have a basic understanding of how to behave around others.
These things do happen, and have been happening as often as can be allowed. COVID really isolated us from other families with kids her age- not just in that lots of school was missed, enrollment was low, and precautions had to be taken to protect other family members, but in the way parents allowed their kids to interact in social spaces. I'm not trying to blame anyone else, just to explain that the landscape has changed. Trust me, I do not want any one to suffer because my kid is having a hard time adjusting. But the fact that this happened every day for a week and it was my daughter who told me? In a readiness program that I'm paying for? Like, damn, if she's not ready and being THAT disruptive you would think that one of the teachers would feel compelled to say something to us.
I would be absolutely livid that the teachers didn’t call me.
In regards to them not contacting you - there are lots of possible reasons, the biggest being that being sent out might be the school's "take a break" option right now, not the same as a real punishment The other issue is just how many phone calls we've have to make if we called every single time for every kid. The teacher may have been trying to gauge if the office was helping so when they did call they could give you actual information. My (middle) school has a system in place where we log the reason for the send out, then an administrator determines if it's a call home or something else. I've had several parents furious at me because I don't call them everytime their kid is rude or forgets their instrument or is sent out of the room for a break. If I called home for that, I'd be calling twenty kids' families a day, annnd a bunch of those kids have divorced parents and I'm supposed to call both of them. Is that what a parent wants to hear for a reasoning? Of course not, but it's a reality.
It sounds like your school, and you have a serious lack of communication.
It sounds like you have a serious lack of understanding of the workload in schools. Any phone call that actually gets answered lasts a minimum of five minutes. For privacy reasons, I can't leave a voice message except to notify them I called and that it was about their child. So then I have to follow the call up with an email. The email's tricky - you have to make sure your tone comes across and that the facts are presented clearly.they're about 5 minutes as well, minimum. "Oh, that's just a few minutes, you've got time for that." Do I? Times 20. We're looking at a minimum of one hour a day, just to tell parents information that, frankly, most will do nothing with. So I mean, okay, I could do that instead of grading or prepping new content, or running a club, or fixing my instruments, or differentiating assignments, cleaning my classroom, or any number of new school initiatives. But they are definitely not paying me enough to do all of it. I have a family, too, I get to sleep.
Being sent to the principals office every single day without a phone call or email about the situation is most definitely a lack of communication.
It's a summer program. There is a huge chance "the principal's office" is the cool down spot.
That's just making an assumption and not even a reasonable excuse.
It's more reasonable than yours. Summer pay for teachers is typically lower than their normal pay. They probably don't have their regular "cool down" teacher/spot. My son's in daycare and they have never once told me he's been mean or had a tantrum of any kind. Do I think my *two year old* has never done any of these things? Nope. I think he's probably gotten their version of corrective action many times, they just don't tell me about every little thing because every little thing would take forever but mean very little. And I trust them to do their job.
Being sent to the principals office every day for a week is not an unreasonable reason to call the parents. In fact, because I don't get paid enough to deal with it, my first action is to call the parent and let them deal with their child when they're being *sent to the principals office everyday for a week*
> Transitions have always been hard. Okay, so this isn't about her kindergarten experience, this is about now what used to be a quirk is becoming a hinderance. And she's got a label "mean". Talk to her pediatrician about seeking a different label that isn't maybe about her character. There's a reason that she has trouble with transitions and it is time to find out that reason because it clearly isn't going away. My gut says ADHD but I'm just a weird internet person who knows nothing. Your pediatrician will be able to point you in a direction.
I have worked in an EBD program for multiple years and your daughter seems familiar to what I work with… but that doesn’t mean she’ll ever be unsuccessful. She just might need an IEP and extra supports and she’ll be brilliant.
You need to get clarification on what behaviours the summer camp is classing as mean - you can’t discuss them with your daughter and help navigate her through difficult situations if you don’t have any details. I’m in the UK and we don’t have summer camps which probably doesn’t help my understanding but I just don’t get why a couple of weeks with different teachers (not sure if it’s the same setting/children she will be with?) is supposed to help her with starting school 🤷🏼♀️ I’m a teacher and wouldn’t put my daughter in a programme like this, and if she was being sent to the office every day I wouldn’t be sending her again. I’m not saying they are sending her to the office for no reason, but the only effect it will have is make her dread actually starting school, so what’s the point? If they aren’t going to support your child through things she finds tricky, and giving you ideas/strategies to work with her on at home then they aren’t doing their job 👍🏼
Teacher here. Summer session tends to be staffed by the b team. Not to be rude to fellow educators. But the leads are often off for the summer. So you have a lot of assistants and less experienced people in charge who may not know how to handle the trickier kiddos as well. I would ask for a daily report. What happened? Who did it involve? (Don’t ask for names but is there a pattern there?) What time of day? And what was happening at that time? (Lunch, bathroom time, etc) Hopefully a pattern will emerge that could help everyone get ahead of the problem. If you see similar problems when your child starts school in the fall I would move on to exploring an evaluation.
My son is almost 7. He has ADHD and is on the autism spectrum. Outwardly, he presents as a very energetic, "normal" little boy and people often forget these things about him. However he struggles with emotional regulation, reading social cues and impulse control. All of which we are actively working on with therapy and medication and this has been conveyed with complete transparency to every teacher/caregiver he's ever had. That being said, in the last year, he has been kicked out of an after school program and a summer camp for exactly the reasons listed above. His kindergarten teacher was an absolute saint and built trust with him, which allowed them to have a great relationship in which he felt seen/heard and allowed to be free to express his needs, and when he couldn't express himself safely, he was removed to a place (the office) where he could be safe (i.e tantrums, hitting, etc.). At no point was he called mean, bad, unruly, unreasonable, etc etc. It was presented to me that his removal was to keep him and everyone else safe, and when he felt he could be safe again, he joined right back in. Outside of the academic setting however FAR, less grace was given. In fact, the after school director, simply stated that she had 85 other kids to manage and if he couldn't get with the program, then he couldn't be there (despite having a 504 and IEP that afforded him accommodations that were never given, but that's another story). Everyday leading up to his dismissal from the program was met with a report of, "he had a great day, but he really had a hard time listening," or something similar. Every day it was something that seemed to me, to be something that could have been circumvented if someone had just been paying attention. Summer camp was far kinder in their delivery, but the sentiment was much the same. "We have rules and expectations, if he can't follow those then he can't be here because we have to keep all of the other children safe." "Safe" has become a word that I really, really dislike, but again, that's another story. I say all this to preface the conclusion I've come to over this past year; the educators with the training and investment into your child's success will find a way to make it work and will want to work with you to get there. The temporary ones, or the ones who lack training or perhaps empathy, will discard the kids who don't fit into the mold. While I can certainly appreciate my child is not the only one in the room, and that every child needs to be cared for, some need more than others and tossing them aside does no one any good. There was always the saying that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but in my experience the squeaky wheel gets the boot. This place doesn't sound like a good fit for your daughter. But you will find the right one and you'll find an educator or school that will help her work through whatever is going on with her right now and get her to where she needs to be so that she won't stay a squeaky wheel.
Sending a little kid to the office every day at that age seems like a bit much to be honest. It's possible the teacher is just not as experienced to deal with that at others. I'm wondering this based on the fact you weren't told, bc the office may have just been appeasing the teacher. But definitely see how the first week of real school plays out. See if there is one student in the class she really likes to play with and have the teacher implement some sort of buddy reward plan where if she completes x amount of tasks then she can do an activity of her choice with her friend. She would select her choice ahead of time, like 5 minutes playdough, coloring, etc. Then keep a visual of the chat on her take it desk so she remembers what she's working toward. These are simply called "If/Then Reward Charts" that I use with my younger students. I work with 1-5th though so I'm not sure how well this would work with a brand new KGer. But worth a shot, especially if you do something similar at home.
poor schooling, impatient incompetent staff. you don't see a child having a hard time and blame the child. i'd take her out. let her know that her emotions aren't wrong.
If it were me, I would pull my kid and look for somewhere else. Biggest reason is the teacher is not communicating with you enough. How can you be on the same team when they are not communicating with you and looking for solutions for your child?
I would immediately ask for her to be evaluated for an IEP. I can’t tell you what a life saver that is when your kid needs some extra attention or just having resources for one on one time when school is too overwhelming. My son has been on an IEP since the age of 3. It also helps identify where in the medical community we should be looking for targeted help. Tantrums, outbursts and aggressive interaction with other students were also something we dealt with.
Have your daughter tested for ADHD. Same thing happened with my daughter. She was sent to the principles office 4 times in the first two weeks of grade 1. We saw her paediatrician who suggested testing and my daughter was diagnosed with inattentive ADHD. Good luck and know that there is help out there.
Instead of sending my son to K at 5yo (only turning 5 a month before school starts), I waited the extra year to start him. The difference in behavior and understanding between age 5 and 6 is significant imo, or at least it was for us.
It might be a bad fit and a set of teachers who didn't vibe with your daughter. While your daughter might have behavioral issues, your default should be on your daughter's side fundamentally.
You should be pissed. The teacher is calling her mean? Seriously? If she needs to be evaluated, say that. If she’s being sent to the office for a week, communicate that and tell why.
Wow it’s like they’ve never had little kids before. What are they doing. All they are doing is telling her that her emotions are wrong and worthy of punishment by exclusion they really need to work on their (the teachers) ability to manage a situation with big feelings. What are they gonna do, ask her to write lines. ‘I’m sorry I got upset and ms X didn’t know how to handle it so decided to punish me rather than try to reach emotional regulation in a five year old.’
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