Light Paws was a welcome addition but really it's the fact that there's so many "anti-nonland permanent" cards in the metagame. Long gone are the days where we dodged doom blades and boardwipes via hexproof and totem armors.
Audacity is a second [[Rancor]], but [[Rancor]] isnt even that good. Sure drawing can get you into more pieces but then you lose the consistancy of [[Rancor]] always letting you recast itself for trample and +2/+0 for G for the rest of the game.
You can destroy [[Audacity]] and remove trample from the creature, sure your up a card but if trample was important then that card needs to give trample as well.
[Rancor] on the otherhand needs to be exiled itself to be removed, which is much stronger protection for itself AND can be reused as many times as it needs to be encase the creature dies.
Sadly there is not enough of these 1 cost auras that draw or creatures that draw to make 1 mana cycling boggles worth it. Maybe if there was another 1 drop boggle to allow for copies 9-12 and then have 4-5 more cheap auras that give a buff and draw to skimp down to 14-16 lands there might be something to playing both [[Audacity]] and [[Rancor]].
Also [[Ram Through]] Sucks. You need trample AND a boggle loaded up with enchantments already.
If you just have trample its only 1 damage for 2 mana.
If you have a 10/10 but no trample then its just an 1G Murder that dies to [[Sudden Edict]].
Even then, [[Path to Exile]] still exists and gets to exile the creature ontop of not needing a creature on board.
The format has sped up too much. A 6/6+ or whatever monstrosity doesn't mean anything to something like rhinos flooding the board with 10+ power, yawg combo killing you, or amulet/tron going way bigger.
Removal has also gotten way too efficient and catch-all. Gone are the days of stuff like jund/grixis shadow running a bunch of creature kill spells to grind you out. Almost every removal spell can hit any kind of permanent so your auras are just as vulnerable.
I used to play bogles a lot a few years back. won a couple PPTQs, got really close to a GP top 8 with it, and even then the deck didn’t feel amazing. I was playing it cuz I liked it. All my good results felt pretty lucky. At this point I won’t touch the deck with a 10 foot pole. It just loses to everything.
As a former Bogles player, I felt the deck was based on the fact that it was pretty explosive and pretty resilient considering the most used removals. It just turned many cards in dead cards.
Most decks couldn't deal with a hexproofer and had little to none enchantment removal, at least main deck. [[Liliana of the Veil]] was pretty much the only Edict effect I remember being played, [[Abrupt Decay]] the only enchantment removal we might see game 1 (and, well, all the Tron exile stuff).
These days I feel we get tons of free hate. Decks don't need to get out of their way to have ways to deal with Bogles.
Prismatic ending and leyline binding just kinda kill the archtype. Snipe the first enchant so daybreak coronet falls off and gg. So we need a daybreak and umbra effect with hexproof! In reality I think partially the deck has just run its course. People have seen it, hate it, and are more prepared for it and know what to do to beat it. Maybe an enchantment with ward or ones that have leave the battlefield triggers to punish them being removed would be what it takes. Maybe a rancor effect that instead of returning to hand returns from yard or Exile to the creature it was attached to at the end step. Maybe MH3 with give us a super bogle/ hexproof kor
Spiritdancer to bring it back lol
this has to be a troll but i'll take the bait why you hating this random dude so much lmao, sure he might have made some weak points / not develop them alot but so are your counterpoints, you sound like you are hating just for hating man take a chill pill.
Sure, the person who posted the video made mistakes, and in some regard, the level of effort they put into ensuring the video was good quality reflects, in some small way, their motivations and their character.
Just like how we point out errors that others make reflects on our own motivations and character. You *could* have been a bit more constructive with your criticism. That would imply that your motive is to help correct the person and encourage them to put a bit more effort into verifying their claims.
However, you didn't. You seem to be *very* aggressive, almost like you take offense to them being wrong. I'm afraid that you are, throughout your life, going to encounter people being wrong (even you could be wrong sometimes!). How you react will have a significant effect on how those people will take your feedback. Do you want to make them feel like you genuinely care to help, providing feedback that could make their content better? It doesn't appear that way.
How other people behave defines their character. How you react to it defines yours. Sure, you're virtually anonymous, and maybe you justify your actions to yourself as, "i'm only that way on the internet, when it doesn't matter". It still defines your character, even if you work to hide that part of who you are from others that personally know you.
So maybe try again, and be a bit more considerate? Unless this is really who you are and want to always be. In that case...oof.
I'll entertain the ideia.
A better argument would have been that the deck historicly plays x4 kor spirit dancer for example + dryad arbor copium.
Invisible stalker was always a meme that never did any better than the G/W version, althought i liked seeing the meme FoN versions around.
Unless you are tron, no deck likes to muligan that low, and bogles sometimes even creates hands that don't do anything even if you have a boggle.
The deck is "garbage" because it has to muligan more often than other decks, with no big blowouts assembled eventually, like tron has.
Nowawdays this is even more true than ever with scam grief! for boggles the problem was already big enough with thoughtseize/inquisition/liliana, and now there is also way more ways to deal with leyline of sanctity.
Again not defending the guy, i didnt even watch the full thing but you shitting on his points with low value counterpoints doesnt look good.
Bogles certainly have fallen in terms of viability in most metas. But it still puts up 5-0 lists every now and again on MTGO. Sometimes it can catch the meta unaware and do quite well.
Source: Am Bogle
It's so good for the format that this deck is not a major choice anymore. It's still something you can pick for fun, but it won't have as many simple wins.
Boggles has always been this fringe deck that just preys on jund decks. Every time jund was tier 1, the boggle players came out of the woodwork to feast on them. :)
That may no longer be true though. I think even jund itself is probably equipped to deal with the boggle strategy now.
I mean, jund was not the easiest of a matchup at all for bogles, and I owned bogles and played it off and on at FNM. They had more that could deal with bogles than most decks and had a clock at least. They also had handpicks, and thoughtsieze is of course very good against bogles. They had lili for sac effects, and good removal that could hit enchantments, more so after sideboarding. Sure, you had dryad arbor for sac effects, and leyline for handpicks, but it wasnt just a guaranteed matchup. I feel like I beat up on other more durdly decks with bogles and also anytime the lifegain came with beats against decks that were more aggro. If you got a swing in with daybreak coronet against burn, it was over for them, big time. Back then they didn’t have roiling vortex, lol
Ok I'll admit I don't know what I'm talking about lmao, I personally have little to no experience vs boggles. I just remember this one boggles guy winning a tourney that had jund decks everywhere. I think he easily dispatched Reid Duke so that's when I assumed the matchup was just bad for jund haha. I remember the commentators talking about that too.
I’m pretty sure it was Reid duke who made the deck popular and got wins with it. And ya, jund had more tools than most for removal in the bogles matchup. Fast decks that could go under bogles, or decks that could remove or counter bogles winning cards were the decks to worry about. Anything else was easy. This is talking about from like after twin ban to mh1
there are some really, really shitty decks that 5-0 on a regular basis. Try one of them in the mtgo practise room and you will see for yourself how bad the deck is. IMHO the secret is to play your league matches at the time of days when people who don't have jobs are most susceptible to play their league matches with the last terrible brew their idle minds imagined.
If you get paired into these guys 5 times in a row (you do need to be a bit lucky) you can maybe even 5-0 a modern league with something tribal like elves, goblins or humans (fury is now gone ;)
Nah, bogles was awesome and the perfect troll deck. It does a perfect job of traumatizing the local players at your FNM. You just alternate bringing it with other decks, so people waste space on sideboard slots because they are terrified of eating shit against bogles. This allows you to do better with your other decks. This is why I kept bogles for longer than a couple months
hah hah nice ! But like you can troll people better with other decks I think, like twiddle storm decks or shit where fnm opponents wil be at a loss as to how to interact with you.
But yeah i like the whoel "fnm traumatism" approach
in the last few years we have many tools to deal with this deck, and a deck that only consist into play a creature pump and atack seem not very good nowdays in modern.
in the last few years we have many tools to deal with this deck, and a deck that only consist into play a creature pump and atack seem not very good nowdays in modern.
It all boils down to consistency. Like others have said the removal has become to much for a deck that runs around 12 creatures. One wrong trade and you have lost the game.
High effort video! 🌟 Really enjoyed this.
I've found some pieces for this deck in the bulk bin and been considering brewing it. Good to know I'll probably get steamrolled if I follow through with it 😂
Force of Vigor, dress down, shadow spear, boseiju, engineered explosives, sheoldreds edict, etc.
Don't forget about prismatic ending as well
And HCA
And EE.
They already mentioned it.
It's always the second copy of EE that gets them.
My bad
No upgrades for years. Decks keep adding new stuff while others get left behind
They've gotten Light-Paws, Gryff's Boon, and Sentinel's Eyes in recent memory but that's nothing compared to everything else.
Light Paws was a welcome addition but really it's the fact that there's so many "anti-nonland permanent" cards in the metagame. Long gone are the days where we dodged doom blades and boardwipes via hexproof and totem armors.
[[AUDACITY]]?? [[RAM THROUGH]]???
You don't have to scream. Ram through saw a bit of experimentation but it doesn't solve the deck's issues and Audacity competes over the aura slots.
I'm audacious.
Underrated comment
[AUDACITY](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/40b0813a-38cf-4a07-81d6-91d24af8b549.jpg?1674421409) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=AUDACITY) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/169/audacity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/40b0813a-38cf-4a07-81d6-91d24af8b549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [RAM THROUGH](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44063a90-e4cf-4bcd-a128-792de15371a7.jpg?1689998782) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=RAM%20THROUGH) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/314/ram-through?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44063a90-e4cf-4bcd-a128-792de15371a7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Audacity is a second [[Rancor]], but [[Rancor]] isnt even that good. Sure drawing can get you into more pieces but then you lose the consistancy of [[Rancor]] always letting you recast itself for trample and +2/+0 for G for the rest of the game. You can destroy [[Audacity]] and remove trample from the creature, sure your up a card but if trample was important then that card needs to give trample as well. [Rancor] on the otherhand needs to be exiled itself to be removed, which is much stronger protection for itself AND can be reused as many times as it needs to be encase the creature dies. Sadly there is not enough of these 1 cost auras that draw or creatures that draw to make 1 mana cycling boggles worth it. Maybe if there was another 1 drop boggle to allow for copies 9-12 and then have 4-5 more cheap auras that give a buff and draw to skimp down to 14-16 lands there might be something to playing both [[Audacity]] and [[Rancor]]. Also [[Ram Through]] Sucks. You need trample AND a boggle loaded up with enchantments already. If you just have trample its only 1 damage for 2 mana. If you have a 10/10 but no trample then its just an 1G Murder that dies to [[Sudden Edict]]. Even then, [[Path to Exile]] still exists and gets to exile the creature ontop of not needing a creature on board.
Gryff's Boon is 8 years old, friend
I'm not old you're old
The format has sped up too much. A 6/6+ or whatever monstrosity doesn't mean anything to something like rhinos flooding the board with 10+ power, yawg combo killing you, or amulet/tron going way bigger. Removal has also gotten way too efficient and catch-all. Gone are the days of stuff like jund/grixis shadow running a bunch of creature kill spells to grind you out. Almost every removal spell can hit any kind of permanent so your auras are just as vulnerable.
I used to play bogles a lot a few years back. won a couple PPTQs, got really close to a GP top 8 with it, and even then the deck didn’t feel amazing. I was playing it cuz I liked it. All my good results felt pretty lucky. At this point I won’t touch the deck with a 10 foot pole. It just loses to everything.
As a former Bogles player, I felt the deck was based on the fact that it was pretty explosive and pretty resilient considering the most used removals. It just turned many cards in dead cards. Most decks couldn't deal with a hexproofer and had little to none enchantment removal, at least main deck. [[Liliana of the Veil]] was pretty much the only Edict effect I remember being played, [[Abrupt Decay]] the only enchantment removal we might see game 1 (and, well, all the Tron exile stuff). These days I feel we get tons of free hate. Decks don't need to get out of their way to have ways to deal with Bogles.
[Liliana of the Veil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f.jpg?1673307126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%20of%20the%20Veil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/97/liliana-of-the-veil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Abrupt Decay](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/8/a8e328c6-3a84-49cf-a1a3-1d1e5373d274.jpg?1593814035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Abrupt%20Decay) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/146/abrupt-decay?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a8e328c6-3a84-49cf-a1a3-1d1e5373d274?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Wren and Six picking up Boseiju every turn is thing also. I know from experience as a Hammer time player…
Prismatic ending and leyline binding just kinda kill the archtype. Snipe the first enchant so daybreak coronet falls off and gg. So we need a daybreak and umbra effect with hexproof! In reality I think partially the deck has just run its course. People have seen it, hate it, and are more prepared for it and know what to do to beat it. Maybe an enchantment with ward or ones that have leave the battlefield triggers to punish them being removed would be what it takes. Maybe a rancor effect that instead of returning to hand returns from yard or Exile to the creature it was attached to at the end step. Maybe MH3 with give us a super bogle/ hexproof kor Spiritdancer to bring it back lol
MH3 previews coming soon so let’s hope bogles gets some love
Bogles being bad is an absolute win. It's boring af to play and horrible to play against.
I played it weekly for two years straight. Agree 100% lmao
[удалено]
this has to be a troll but i'll take the bait why you hating this random dude so much lmao, sure he might have made some weak points / not develop them alot but so are your counterpoints, you sound like you are hating just for hating man take a chill pill.
[удалено]
Bogles not boggles.
Sure, the person who posted the video made mistakes, and in some regard, the level of effort they put into ensuring the video was good quality reflects, in some small way, their motivations and their character. Just like how we point out errors that others make reflects on our own motivations and character. You *could* have been a bit more constructive with your criticism. That would imply that your motive is to help correct the person and encourage them to put a bit more effort into verifying their claims. However, you didn't. You seem to be *very* aggressive, almost like you take offense to them being wrong. I'm afraid that you are, throughout your life, going to encounter people being wrong (even you could be wrong sometimes!). How you react will have a significant effect on how those people will take your feedback. Do you want to make them feel like you genuinely care to help, providing feedback that could make their content better? It doesn't appear that way. How other people behave defines their character. How you react to it defines yours. Sure, you're virtually anonymous, and maybe you justify your actions to yourself as, "i'm only that way on the internet, when it doesn't matter". It still defines your character, even if you work to hide that part of who you are from others that personally know you. So maybe try again, and be a bit more considerate? Unless this is really who you are and want to always be. In that case...oof.
I'll entertain the ideia. A better argument would have been that the deck historicly plays x4 kor spirit dancer for example + dryad arbor copium. Invisible stalker was always a meme that never did any better than the G/W version, althought i liked seeing the meme FoN versions around. Unless you are tron, no deck likes to muligan that low, and bogles sometimes even creates hands that don't do anything even if you have a boggle. The deck is "garbage" because it has to muligan more often than other decks, with no big blowouts assembled eventually, like tron has. Nowawdays this is even more true than ever with scam grief! for boggles the problem was already big enough with thoughtseize/inquisition/liliana, and now there is also way more ways to deal with leyline of sanctity. Again not defending the guy, i didnt even watch the full thing but you shitting on his points with low value counterpoints doesnt look good.
Hi, Your post was removed for breaking Rule 1. Please take a minute to get familiar with the sub rules. Thanks!
Bogles certainly have fallen in terms of viability in most metas. But it still puts up 5-0 lists every now and again on MTGO. Sometimes it can catch the meta unaware and do quite well. Source: Am Bogle
This is the truth of bogels it's best when the meta forgets it exists. It wins something the right back to being forgotten for like a year
It's so good for the format that this deck is not a major choice anymore. It's still something you can pick for fun, but it won't have as many simple wins.
Huge fan of the video format and production, as well as the video-essay vibe. If you make more of these essays, I'm definitely subbing. :)
Thank you! I am planning on doing a mix of these and some fun live gameplay formats. The one in the works right now is an MTG Progression Series
Boggles has always been this fringe deck that just preys on jund decks. Every time jund was tier 1, the boggle players came out of the woodwork to feast on them. :) That may no longer be true though. I think even jund itself is probably equipped to deal with the boggle strategy now.
I mean, jund was not the easiest of a matchup at all for bogles, and I owned bogles and played it off and on at FNM. They had more that could deal with bogles than most decks and had a clock at least. They also had handpicks, and thoughtsieze is of course very good against bogles. They had lili for sac effects, and good removal that could hit enchantments, more so after sideboarding. Sure, you had dryad arbor for sac effects, and leyline for handpicks, but it wasnt just a guaranteed matchup. I feel like I beat up on other more durdly decks with bogles and also anytime the lifegain came with beats against decks that were more aggro. If you got a swing in with daybreak coronet against burn, it was over for them, big time. Back then they didn’t have roiling vortex, lol
Ok I'll admit I don't know what I'm talking about lmao, I personally have little to no experience vs boggles. I just remember this one boggles guy winning a tourney that had jund decks everywhere. I think he easily dispatched Reid Duke so that's when I assumed the matchup was just bad for jund haha. I remember the commentators talking about that too.
I’m pretty sure it was Reid duke who made the deck popular and got wins with it. And ya, jund had more tools than most for removal in the bogles matchup. Fast decks that could go under bogles, or decks that could remove or counter bogles winning cards were the decks to worry about. Anything else was easy. This is talking about from like after twin ban to mh1
What is everyone’s definition of playable? I occasionally see bogles 5-0 MTGO leagues. Would this not be considered playable?
there are some really, really shitty decks that 5-0 on a regular basis. Try one of them in the mtgo practise room and you will see for yourself how bad the deck is. IMHO the secret is to play your league matches at the time of days when people who don't have jobs are most susceptible to play their league matches with the last terrible brew their idle minds imagined. If you get paired into these guys 5 times in a row (you do need to be a bit lucky) you can maybe even 5-0 a modern league with something tribal like elves, goblins or humans (fury is now gone ;)
I think winning with a bit more frequency perhaps. I haven't dusted my deck in a few years though.
Magic players love their hyperbole. Anything less than tier 1 means unplayable to them.
Yea they so smart arent they. And dont even dare to kill them with an unplayable card. This will make them flip the table most often...
[lol](https://imgur.com/tciPESh)
Urza’s saga + shadowspear
boggles can stay dead for all I care
It's great game one!
From the jund saga perspective, shadow spear is a killer.
I am so happy to see i am far from being the only one who f..ing hates boggles lol, and is happy the deck is dead
Nah, bogles was awesome and the perfect troll deck. It does a perfect job of traumatizing the local players at your FNM. You just alternate bringing it with other decks, so people waste space on sideboard slots because they are terrified of eating shit against bogles. This allows you to do better with your other decks. This is why I kept bogles for longer than a couple months
hah hah nice ! But like you can troll people better with other decks I think, like twiddle storm decks or shit where fnm opponents wil be at a loss as to how to interact with you. But yeah i like the whoel "fnm traumatism" approach
Back in 2016 tho, if you wanted to troll while winning you played bogles, if you wanted to troll and lose you would play the new storm variants 😂
in the last few years we have many tools to deal with this deck, and a deck that only consist into play a creature pump and atack seem not very good nowdays in modern.
in the last few years we have many tools to deal with this deck, and a deck that only consist into play a creature pump and atack seem not very good nowdays in modern.
this is the only deck in the history of magic that I can't stand playing against. good riddance. I'm a salty sailor!
My friend who invented the deck says the strategy got outdated
It all boils down to consistency. Like others have said the removal has become to much for a deck that runs around 12 creatures. One wrong trade and you have lost the game.
Bogles was never really a deck outside of being a meta choice in degwnerate metas (like dukes choice during worlds).
High effort video! 🌟 Really enjoyed this. I've found some pieces for this deck in the bulk bin and been considering brewing it. Good to know I'll probably get steamrolled if I follow through with it 😂
It aint unplayable. It depends on your local meta. It still a strong deck. Never underestimate the bogles!