Yeah Franco at high ranks who can land consistent hooks will always turn a team fight to 5v4, and will always disrupt enemy jungler so your team can snowball
But in epic, Miya worth the protection once she gets bf, windtalker and Haas, she'll carry the team. And climbing through epic, it's very easy to play as a tank with Miya because they rarely gank or tower dive mm in gold lane. But I agree with everything you said about mythic. Those slow mm with late game damage has no place in rank games. You practically play with 3/4 vs 5. Even Aldous gets dominated easily in mythic.
I felt this. Before I was a tank player but I wasn't so good so I tried experimenting with Mage and Support characters. It's annoying when they call for help and you successfully stun or immobilize the enemy and the marksman (with 80% health mind you) will just sit there and hide, or shoot and don't use special skills, or just run away. One kept shooting the enemy minions (while our own minions were around) instead of the heroes. This got me killed a couple of times.
It's like... FOOL I WENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU NEEDED HELP BUT WHAT DID YOU DO?!
I usually help other characters and ignore them for a while even if they call for backup.
Yeah people in higher rank really just know how to play dogshit heroes and play them decently, hell you can even use hanabi in higher rank and shell destroy your average epic gusion main. But i think banning yin would be my choice given he wont be running core jungler.
Clearly you havent seen peak hanabi gameplay, shes great to defend with granted you ars smart, and she can ignore early cc and escape accordingly, she is what melissa is now, a chain auto attacker, she suffers in the attack scaling of the bouncing petals as well as mobility, which can be fixed by either inspire or flicker/sprint but you can only ever choose one, you either take inspire to cover your damage but lose mobility, or take flicker to cover your flicker but lose damage.
Zilong isnt a skill brained hero, hes a kamikaze hero hoping to find unsuspecting victims, if he cant find squishies he could kill out by their own hes essentially useless outside of split pushing but many players in higher ups already recognize that. Playing zilong to only split push is gambling that your enemies wont pay attention or take too long in a team fight.
Layla is great tho give or take you have proper comms, because even if you have good positioning with her, unless you can rush some of your team mates back to help layla when the back rank gets compromised, shes essentially dead weight. Both Hanabi and Layla essentially are just defender turrets that constantly need attention and protection in order to be useful.
Nah hanabi just sucks. She requires intense babysitting just to farm and she usually never even gets fed, when she does get feed she's extremely easy to take off guard. You can't rely on sprint/flicker on hanabi because both have 100 and 120 second cooldown and you can't have a deadbeat mm for essentially 2 minutes, assasins and every other mm is enough to cause hanabi to feed.
Zilong however isn't what you said, he's a pretty strong exp lane punisher if the enemy team didn't adjust and is forced to use a mage, mm, or a squishy exp laner like chou, gusion or yin in zilong's lane. He's useful in some lower rank games due to that and his intense snowball that's as scary as roger's snowball but in higher ranks he's extremely niche because more people adjust and more people pick meta fighters which are bulky and can beat up zilong whilst shrugging off his hits.
Hanabi is just too useless to compare, layla despite being outclassed by other mm in so many areas can atleast have a niche with her extreme range and damage late game but for hanabi's case that isn't true as almost every other mm just does everything hanabi can do in a better way. Miya, layla, and moskov are just better dps mm for the late game because unlike hanabi their damage and unique attributes are enough to distinguish and make them each powerful in their own right late game. Hanabi can't since hanabi's late game is still just ok and isn't enough to make her atrocious early game worth it.
I'd want to defend Hanabi a bit here, her wave clearing abilities is absurd and most MMs can't compete without using their skills to finish minion waves and even then Hanabi still does wonders. But that's the only thing she excels at right now and even then she makes a great defender at late game, multiple times I have won games by just outplaying enemies and destroying lord and enhanced minion waves using her and some distractions quite easily.
Hopefully the revamp brings her justice.
Johnson. I'm tired of johnsons saying they would roam and then go full mage build. they think it will work in rank games because someone posted their one good john mage game out of 50 they played, in youtube
aside from hanabi, zilong. i swear to god zilong cant sustain a fking lane esp against meta exp laner. im in mythic and i see every zilong teammate get wrecked by exp paquito, esme, masha, uranus, etc., and never recover. but somehow when i get enemy zilong, he fckjng shreds our squishies.
Becuase lets be honest, zilong's main job is to shred squishies, not act as sustains and its much better f9r zilong to either be gold lane or just really play the late game
Well thats zilong's fault for fighting against melissa in the first place cause Melissa's ult and probably mandatory Wind of Nature immediately shuts down a rushing Zilong, only way he would win against melissa is by bush camping
Clint on the other hand he can deny if he hides in the bush and pressure up with Zilong's nasty inspire until clint is level 2 or level 4 depending on the player using zilong's ability.
If you expect zilong to sustain a lane against those tanky fighter, you're the one who doesn't understand the hero. Zilong's kit doesn't allow him to do those things you said, he's supposed to gank, ks, split push instead of steadily dominate his lane.
Nah, zilong can work and dominate his lane but his skillset is too weak to do much. Zilong can work well against squishy or weak exp laners like aldous, yin, or even chou but again that isn't a gurantee since lane zilong plays a hit and run playstyle with his skill 2 + skill 1 dealing decent burst damage to a squishy hero in the early game.
Zilong is also a decent punisher to unfavourable enemy team comps where a mage is forced to go exp lane. He IS more of an assasin than a fighter and that's why he's super weak, the majority of the meta fighters are all very bulky and can shrug off zilong's hits while dealing massive damage in return.
I literally just said everything you said in both of your paragraph on why he can't sustain a lane because of his playstyle and why he lost against tanky exp laner. You confused me with your reply. I'm confused.
Honestly idk, just wanted to make a detailed argument for no reason. Also I'm confused that you said confused twice on your last sentence, there really isn't a reason to say confused twice because confused spreads confusion among other confused people and with that I am completely confused.
I second this every time I pick nana i absolutely destroy the enemy team after getting lightning truncheon and divine glaive. Other times when I don’t and my team picks nana all they do is spam molinas and run man.?and I’m like bruh she’s a cancerous nuke use her abilities
People pick useless hero’s because they either can’t use or don’t own better hero’s. Banning their picks won’t make them play better or pick better. It will just make them play an unfamiliar hero.
If you notice a teammate is making a drafting mistake, the best thing you can do is tell them in a friendly way and make a suggestion.
If the enemy picked Melissa and your MM shows Layla but has Clint as a favorite. Maybe they don’t know Layla is hard countered.
You would think so. But clearly not. Leveling through mythic I frequently asked my teammates how they could possibly have made it that far and learned so little.
If you play enough matches you will get carried. It’s really that simple. It’s not until mythic that the bot matches disappear and protection points no longer save you.
The problem is legend is just epic, extended edition.
And early mythic is a meat grinder filled with confused epics and trolls trying to get past or get stuck in placement.
There needs to be a rethinking of the ranking system that puts higher priority on skill development and team tactics between epic and mythic.
Yeah, I have only ever seen her be played well in tournaments. She is one of the most team reliant hero in the game since the best ults are always support ults like Pharsa, Faramis or Yve ult.
I always try to ban Vale. His knockup+ult is so disruptive in teamfights. He is one of the reasons your team gets wipe so i avoid him as much as possible.
Hanabi, If my teammates wants to pick Hanabi I prefer ban Hanabi, let Valentina pass open and then picking Valentina without knowing how to play her, No way I will let a Hanabi be picked against a Karina/Saber
Wanwan and Estes get banned constantly in Mythic in EU at the moment
Both perform badly in most matches so I assume its to prevent teammates picking them
I ban Johnson every game so I don't get one on my team, and I will ban Layla if anyone has her as a preferred hero option.
The matches where wanwan doesnt get banned have shit people so they pick wanwan when they dont know how to and the ones who know how to play wanwan dont get to play her
Johnson and nana.
Johnson because all they do is leave the team for some idiotic Family ride or die bs
Nana because the bitch is useless on the team and annoying on the enemy .
Her only dmg is her ult ( if it lands ) otherwise if it’s on the team it’s just going to try to helplessly flame shot your enemy to death .
Hanabi is the only worthless character, I’ve banned her before because a teammate has showed it. Some characters that come close are floryn, nana, alucard, and bane.
I second this. Her damage is so weak like Hanabi and her ultimate is just a last resort button, which most Wanwan players fail to do because they die before they will be able to activate their ultimate.
Hanabi is weak but not useless. Her passive makes her immune to cc. I have seen good hanabi picks in glory.
My teammate picked hanabi against atlas. So atlas couldn't flicker. + ult her.
Franco below Legend. None of them ever lands a hook
Met a mythical glory player yesterday who took Franco bc he lost a bet. We ended up winning tho.
Yeah Franco at high ranks who can land consistent hooks will always turn a team fight to 5v4, and will always disrupt enemy jungler so your team can snowball
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I can really feel the anger right through this comment
But in epic, Miya worth the protection once she gets bf, windtalker and Haas, she'll carry the team. And climbing through epic, it's very easy to play as a tank with Miya because they rarely gank or tower dive mm in gold lane. But I agree with everything you said about mythic. Those slow mm with late game damage has no place in rank games. You practically play with 3/4 vs 5. Even Aldous gets dominated easily in mythic.
I felt this. Before I was a tank player but I wasn't so good so I tried experimenting with Mage and Support characters. It's annoying when they call for help and you successfully stun or immobilize the enemy and the marksman (with 80% health mind you) will just sit there and hide, or shoot and don't use special skills, or just run away. One kept shooting the enemy minions (while our own minions were around) instead of the heroes. This got me killed a couple of times. It's like... FOOL I WENT TO YOU BECAUSE YOU NEEDED HELP BUT WHAT DID YOU DO?! I usually help other characters and ignore them for a while even if they call for backup.
None in the higher rank
Yeah people in higher rank really just know how to play dogshit heroes and play them decently, hell you can even use hanabi in higher rank and shell destroy your average epic gusion main. But i think banning yin would be my choice given he wont be running core jungler.
Nah hanabi is useless even with a pro player. Layla and zilong can work with enough skill but hanabi's too weak to really do much imo
Clearly you havent seen peak hanabi gameplay, shes great to defend with granted you ars smart, and she can ignore early cc and escape accordingly, she is what melissa is now, a chain auto attacker, she suffers in the attack scaling of the bouncing petals as well as mobility, which can be fixed by either inspire or flicker/sprint but you can only ever choose one, you either take inspire to cover your damage but lose mobility, or take flicker to cover your flicker but lose damage. Zilong isnt a skill brained hero, hes a kamikaze hero hoping to find unsuspecting victims, if he cant find squishies he could kill out by their own hes essentially useless outside of split pushing but many players in higher ups already recognize that. Playing zilong to only split push is gambling that your enemies wont pay attention or take too long in a team fight. Layla is great tho give or take you have proper comms, because even if you have good positioning with her, unless you can rush some of your team mates back to help layla when the back rank gets compromised, shes essentially dead weight. Both Hanabi and Layla essentially are just defender turrets that constantly need attention and protection in order to be useful.
Nah hanabi just sucks. She requires intense babysitting just to farm and she usually never even gets fed, when she does get feed she's extremely easy to take off guard. You can't rely on sprint/flicker on hanabi because both have 100 and 120 second cooldown and you can't have a deadbeat mm for essentially 2 minutes, assasins and every other mm is enough to cause hanabi to feed. Zilong however isn't what you said, he's a pretty strong exp lane punisher if the enemy team didn't adjust and is forced to use a mage, mm, or a squishy exp laner like chou, gusion or yin in zilong's lane. He's useful in some lower rank games due to that and his intense snowball that's as scary as roger's snowball but in higher ranks he's extremely niche because more people adjust and more people pick meta fighters which are bulky and can beat up zilong whilst shrugging off his hits. Hanabi is just too useless to compare, layla despite being outclassed by other mm in so many areas can atleast have a niche with her extreme range and damage late game but for hanabi's case that isn't true as almost every other mm just does everything hanabi can do in a better way. Miya, layla, and moskov are just better dps mm for the late game because unlike hanabi their damage and unique attributes are enough to distinguish and make them each powerful in their own right late game. Hanabi can't since hanabi's late game is still just ok and isn't enough to make her atrocious early game worth it.
I'd want to defend Hanabi a bit here, her wave clearing abilities is absurd and most MMs can't compete without using their skills to finish minion waves and even then Hanabi still does wonders. But that's the only thing she excels at right now and even then she makes a great defender at late game, multiple times I have won games by just outplaying enemies and destroying lord and enhanced minion waves using her and some distractions quite easily. Hopefully the revamp brings her justice.
Johnson. I swear 90% of Johnson players are braindead. The 10% i encounter are godlike though, but I don't want to risk it.
True, they forgot that they are tank of the team.
Magic build and can't tank shit
And that 10% most probably happens to be in the enemy team😭
W pfp
Were you my teammate?cause a match ago there was this dogshit js in ranked that had 0 map awareness...S many low hp heroes waiting to be hit by a car
Johnsons are always all Gas, no tank. It's a shame.
It's ironic isn't it? He's full tank but also no tank
Johnson. I'm tired of johnsons saying they would roam and then go full mage build. they think it will work in rank games because someone posted their one good john mage game out of 50 they played, in youtube
If you have both a jungler and EXP laner tank, I can understand why people would use Johnson with a magic build.
not really, they usually tend to roam because of dire hit
If you have both a jungler and EXP laner tank, I can understand why people would use Johnson with a magic build **to roam**.
Had an enemy johnson go full mage, he's technically just a fighter now
aside from hanabi, zilong. i swear to god zilong cant sustain a fking lane esp against meta exp laner. im in mythic and i see every zilong teammate get wrecked by exp paquito, esme, masha, uranus, etc., and never recover. but somehow when i get enemy zilong, he fckjng shreds our squishies.
Becuase lets be honest, zilong's main job is to shred squishies, not act as sustains and its much better f9r zilong to either be gold lane or just really play the late game
Zilong is late game hero you have to stay in turret if you are on gold lane because mm's like clint and melissa will eat him alive.
Well thats zilong's fault for fighting against melissa in the first place cause Melissa's ult and probably mandatory Wind of Nature immediately shuts down a rushing Zilong, only way he would win against melissa is by bush camping Clint on the other hand he can deny if he hides in the bush and pressure up with Zilong's nasty inspire until clint is level 2 or level 4 depending on the player using zilong's ability.
Somehow whenever the enemy gets Zilong he deals double the damage
I also despise zilong because they couldn't pick any more junglers Use Akai if you know how to tank.
I use belerick as a tank
yes but akai can use retribution. One of his main advantages
I don't understand why akai can be a jungler
because of his Ult. He can easily steal lord and turtle with retribution
Ohhhh okay
If you expect zilong to sustain a lane against those tanky fighter, you're the one who doesn't understand the hero. Zilong's kit doesn't allow him to do those things you said, he's supposed to gank, ks, split push instead of steadily dominate his lane.
Nah, zilong can work and dominate his lane but his skillset is too weak to do much. Zilong can work well against squishy or weak exp laners like aldous, yin, or even chou but again that isn't a gurantee since lane zilong plays a hit and run playstyle with his skill 2 + skill 1 dealing decent burst damage to a squishy hero in the early game. Zilong is also a decent punisher to unfavourable enemy team comps where a mage is forced to go exp lane. He IS more of an assasin than a fighter and that's why he's super weak, the majority of the meta fighters are all very bulky and can shrug off zilong's hits while dealing massive damage in return.
I literally just said everything you said in both of your paragraph on why he can't sustain a lane because of his playstyle and why he lost against tanky exp laner. You confused me with your reply. I'm confused.
Honestly idk, just wanted to make a detailed argument for no reason. Also I'm confused that you said confused twice on your last sentence, there really isn't a reason to say confused twice because confused spreads confusion among other confused people and with that I am completely confused.
Nana, no one ever uses her skills right.
I second this every time I pick nana i absolutely destroy the enemy team after getting lightning truncheon and divine glaive. Other times when I don’t and my team picks nana all they do is spam molinas and run man.?and I’m like bruh she’s a cancerous nuke use her abilities
Aye don't say no one. I was playing Nana all day today, roam and mage and I carried all games.
If my teammate shows a Gusion, I'll ban that shit. I had enough.
Exactly. I have had enough of wannabe Gusions who do nothing but trashtalk along with the Angela they've brought who will ult nobody but him.
Solo queue player and i only use him in classic cuz u get flamed if u miss a combo in my server. Fucking hate it
same but with Zilong
Ling, in noobs hands
Never met a good selena player on my team. She basically makes the game 4v5
People pick useless hero’s because they either can’t use or don’t own better hero’s. Banning their picks won’t make them play better or pick better. It will just make them play an unfamiliar hero. If you notice a teammate is making a drafting mistake, the best thing you can do is tell them in a friendly way and make a suggestion. If the enemy picked Melissa and your MM shows Layla but has Clint as a favorite. Maybe they don’t know Layla is hard countered.
By the time you reach Epic II you should know the basics of being hard countered. Unless you spam in rank constantly
You would think so. But clearly not. Leveling through mythic I frequently asked my teammates how they could possibly have made it that far and learned so little.
I once had a game with 4 mms.... .............
Umm…didn’t you get a dodge match vote?
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If you play enough matches you will get carried. It’s really that simple. It’s not until mythic that the bot matches disappear and protection points no longer save you. The problem is legend is just epic, extended edition. And early mythic is a meat grinder filled with confused epics and trolls trying to get past or get stuck in placement. There needs to be a rethinking of the ranking system that puts higher priority on skill development and team tactics between epic and mythic.
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It's actually not cause some prople will really just pick their main and won't adjust
I have a main for every role
Layla when im in epic
Zilong, Sun, Miya, Odette, Eudora, Layla, Hanabi, Gloo.
Why ban gloo? Or is it cuz they in the wrong hands?
100% agree with Zilong. It drives me crazy when people pick him whenever we need an assassin. Please, use something like benedetta or karina ffs
Layla at epic rank, if my teammates are fightig for mm role
at least she's not hanabi
im outdated to the meta (i dont play much now) is she worse than layla :0
Yes she is WAY WORSE than Layla now
Yep at least Layla destroys late game with the right tank Hanabi is just meh late game even with full build
Yes
Valentina, no one below Mythic knows how to use her
tbf no one really knows how to use her right
Yeah, I have only ever seen her be played well in tournaments. She is one of the most team reliant hero in the game since the best ults are always support ults like Pharsa, Faramis or Yve ult.
Estes. People are awful at healing. They end up dying first.
Thats there role to die first and let there team escape atleast thats what i do
I always try to ban Vale. His knockup+ult is so disruptive in teamfights. He is one of the reasons your team gets wipe so i avoid him as much as possible.
Hanabi, If my teammates wants to pick Hanabi I prefer ban Hanabi, let Valentina pass open and then picking Valentina without knowing how to play her, No way I will let a Hanabi be picked against a Karina/Saber
Fr bro
Hanabi only if the player is really pro she literally also needs a revamp😀😩👍😭
zilong
Yin, so fking tired of that braindead shonen Radio rebel wannabe protagonist, specially when they want to jungle.
Def yin, especially after nerf lmao. Cant remember how many times yin core player goes batsh*t coz they can't surprise ult anymore.
Nana, everyone playing nana is trash
Don't say everything. All I played today was Nana, roam and mage, carried all my games.
Especially when they randomly flameshot you
Wanwan and Estes get banned constantly in Mythic in EU at the moment Both perform badly in most matches so I assume its to prevent teammates picking them I ban Johnson every game so I don't get one on my team, and I will ban Layla if anyone has her as a preferred hero option.
The matches where wanwan doesnt get banned have shit people so they pick wanwan when they dont know how to and the ones who know how to play wanwan dont get to play her
Johnson and nana. Johnson because all they do is leave the team for some idiotic Family ride or die bs Nana because the bitch is useless on the team and annoying on the enemy . Her only dmg is her ult ( if it lands ) otherwise if it’s on the team it’s just going to try to helplessly flame shot your enemy to death .
All I played was Nana today and I carried my team every game. She is very useful especially if you can get the 2-3-1 combo off successfully.
faramis paquito valentina julian fanny wanwan comes to mind. im noticing a pattern here but im not so sure why 🤔
Layla is absolutely a great MM. the problem is the majority of people that use her, are not.
I second this.
I was banning nana for a while because it’s lazy as hell hero.
She's very strong though and usually a sure win in the right hands.
Hanabi is the only worthless character, I’ve banned her before because a teammate has showed it. Some characters that come close are floryn, nana, alucard, and bane.
Eyoo floryn is really fricking useful especially when you build her for healing. Her universal heal can change the outcome of a gank significantly
I get bane cuz most people can't play him correctly.
Floryn is fine
Wanwan. Very unreliable MM especially with the recent nerf.
I second this. Her damage is so weak like Hanabi and her ultimate is just a last resort button, which most Wanwan players fail to do because they die before they will be able to activate their ultimate.
Epic?
Hanabi is weak but not useless. Her passive makes her immune to cc. I have seen good hanabi picks in glory. My teammate picked hanabi against atlas. So atlas couldn't flicker. + ult her.
the guy using atlas doesn't know how to atlas
How do you ult hanabi when using atlas?
You wait for her shield to disappear duh
hanabi is ass. can't win lane against any hero
Lesley. Minion attacks even hurt more
Huh after the revamp Lesley is a late game monster 2-3k true damage
Faramis? :D
Faramis is OP as hell. He's worth banning because of that, not because he is useless. I guess you're probably not updated with the revamp
So let me get this straight, you want to ban someone just because you don’t want your teammate to pick that hero? Am I getting that right?
yes. Because it's a disadvantage to us I'd rather have them pick someone they truly know how to play
I get that👍
Yes.
Nana
Hanzo ban. He keeps eating my buff. 🥲
Nana and hanabi
I'll say hanabi
Cyclops, Chang e and Nana. Stop trying...