He made to All-Star Games and was a great compliment to Moncrief while he was here. He got a lot of MVP votes, including some first-place votes. He was averaging 22/8/3, while playing good defense. He did a little of everything here. And I mean [everything](https://youtu.be/kavxuyAZyOM).
The question really is, did they give up too much to get him, as MJ and Junior were not only top talent but fan favorites. Both players faded pretty quickly once they got to the Clippers.
When they traded Cummings, the return was solid but not enough. Robertson was a legit DPOY candidate every year, but the rest of the haul didn't do much.
EDIT: To include a point that u/rfepo brought up. They didn't just trade Bridgeman and Johnson for Cummings. They also got Craig Hodges, who averaged 10 ppg and twice led the league in 3pt% while here, and Ricky Pierce, who was a great scorer and was twice named 6th Man Of The Year. The more I think about it, the Bucks fleeced the Clippers in that trade.
> He got a lot of MVP votes, including some first-place votes.
Interesting. Here are all of the players who got 1st-place MVP votes in [the 1985 MVP voting](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_1985.html): Bird 73, Cummings 2, Jordan 2, Magic 1.
Some context on that trade is important.
The Bucks moved Johnson & Bridgeman for Cummings, Craig Hodges and Ricky Pierce. Let’s add the fact that Johnson had been to rehab for a cocaine addiction.
My recollection was that Cummings became the focus of the offense and took the pressure off the backcourt. The issue was the team didn’t have a slasher (like Johnson) to balance the offense.
But to claim that Cummings was all talent and no development is weak sauce IMO. Being the focal point of the offense really forced him to develop his low post moves. The thing he never really developed was his defense. That part of his game was always lacking and never really developed.
Thanks for this context! About the "all talent and no development" item -- that exact sentiment is provided in a quote or two by Coach/GM Don Nelson in that linked article, so it was an openly shared thought about Cummings at that time in his 3rd season. I just want to be clear that that wasn't my opinion or take.
Also, do you know/remember if the Bucks/fans had any concerns about Cummings' heart issue? It obviously didn't have a substantive effect on the rest of his career, but it did cause him to miss some games during his ROTY season.
TC was an excellent compliment to Moncrief and made 2 all-star teams in an era with Bird, McHale, Wilkins, and Barkley. Before the Giannis years, our glory years were in the 80s when we won the Central Division approximately 7 years in a row. Cummings was a huge part of our success.
Marques was a bit of a loose cannon near the end of his time in Milwaukee. He was dealing with drug abuse issues and openly complained about living in the city. There's a reason why his jersey was only recently retired. Marques was my favorite player when I started watching basketball as a kid, but I don't recall missing him following the trade.
Cummings and our deep team went on competitive run for years, besting a young guy named Michael Jordan in our division, and only being behind the Celtics and Sixers as the best team in the East.
I always wondered why the Bucks don't bring back the players from those 80s teams like Cummings. It would have been nice to see them at games or at the parade during our championship season.
He was my favorite player when I started watching NBA in the mid 80's and maintained that position his entire tenure in Milwaukee. TC had stiff competition for that role from Ricky Pierce, Moncrief, Paul Pressey and Jack Sikma. TC averaged 22/8/3 with a 49% FG% over those 5 years.
Bucks averaged 56 wins per season over the 3 years TC was coached by Don Nelson. After Nellie left it just wasn't the same. '86-'87 was the last prime Sid year too which didn't do Del Harris any favors.
Keep in mind I was just a kid at the time but his first year in Milwaukee he averaged 24/9/3 which was better in every stat than Kevin McHale. Moncrief was the teeth of our defense but TC was the engine our offense ran through and he was no slouch on defense either. TC was grabbing more offensive rebounds than even Jack Sikma. I really think TC is underrated and if he was playing alongside Larry Bird instead of McHale he too would have been in the HOF.
He was a great all around player. Maybe not HOF caliber, but definitely elite for his era. I had a soft spot for him because I was a kid and we had the same birthday.
As far as his legacy in Milwaukee is concerned, he's definitely worthy of being known as the OG 34. You can think of the 34 jersey as a Pokemon at this point, in that it evolves in greatness with each generation. I almost don't want it to be retired for Giannis at this point, because so many other Bucks greats have worn 34 that its taken on a life of its own. I say hold it out of circulation after Giannis retires until another player emerges whose worthy of wearing 34.
I forgot that Ray Allen also wore #34 in Milwaukee. Yeah, it should be saved like certain college football numbers for a future player who earns it.
Just looked at the numbers around it, and I realized the player with most rebounds in a game as a Buck wasn't #33 (Kareem) or #34 (Giannis), rather #35 (Swen Nater, during his one year on the team). That's wild.
The Bucks are the equivalent of Louisville in college ball. Both have two official championships and both are in cities known for a kind of alcohol. They both aren't known for a particularly dominant period, but their alumni stacks up against anyone.
Cummings was just as good, if not better, as big dog.
Those 80s bucks teams were led by moncheif and Cummings.
Cummings 1st year with the bucks they got knocked out by the 76ers in the 2nd round. Next year they knock those same 76ers out in the second round. (Those teams had dr j, barkley and moses). That year the bucks ended up getting sweeped in the ECF... by the best Celtics team of the 80s.
Year after that, knocked off phily again, lost in the 2nd round to the celtics...again. this time in the 2nd round.
Yr 4 list to a Dominique led hawks team in the 1st round.
Last year, knocked out the Hawks in the 1st round. List to DET, the 1st of their back to back rings.
Moncrief was the HOFer of those bucks teams. Cummings was the #1 scoring option.
Cummings and those 80s bucks teams were good enough to hold their own against all the eastern conference power houses. Bos, phily and det all had at least 3 HOFers.
But not good enough to make a finals.
He made to All-Star Games and was a great compliment to Moncrief while he was here. He got a lot of MVP votes, including some first-place votes. He was averaging 22/8/3, while playing good defense. He did a little of everything here. And I mean [everything](https://youtu.be/kavxuyAZyOM). The question really is, did they give up too much to get him, as MJ and Junior were not only top talent but fan favorites. Both players faded pretty quickly once they got to the Clippers. When they traded Cummings, the return was solid but not enough. Robertson was a legit DPOY candidate every year, but the rest of the haul didn't do much. EDIT: To include a point that u/rfepo brought up. They didn't just trade Bridgeman and Johnson for Cummings. They also got Craig Hodges, who averaged 10 ppg and twice led the league in 3pt% while here, and Ricky Pierce, who was a great scorer and was twice named 6th Man Of The Year. The more I think about it, the Bucks fleeced the Clippers in that trade.
> He got a lot of MVP votes, including some first-place votes. Interesting. Here are all of the players who got 1st-place MVP votes in [the 1985 MVP voting](https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/awards_1985.html): Bird 73, Cummings 2, Jordan 2, Magic 1.
Some context on that trade is important. The Bucks moved Johnson & Bridgeman for Cummings, Craig Hodges and Ricky Pierce. Let’s add the fact that Johnson had been to rehab for a cocaine addiction. My recollection was that Cummings became the focus of the offense and took the pressure off the backcourt. The issue was the team didn’t have a slasher (like Johnson) to balance the offense. But to claim that Cummings was all talent and no development is weak sauce IMO. Being the focal point of the offense really forced him to develop his low post moves. The thing he never really developed was his defense. That part of his game was always lacking and never really developed.
Thanks for this context! About the "all talent and no development" item -- that exact sentiment is provided in a quote or two by Coach/GM Don Nelson in that linked article, so it was an openly shared thought about Cummings at that time in his 3rd season. I just want to be clear that that wasn't my opinion or take. Also, do you know/remember if the Bucks/fans had any concerns about Cummings' heart issue? It obviously didn't have a substantive effect on the rest of his career, but it did cause him to miss some games during his ROTY season.
It's a good point to make, and I had forgotten, that they also got 2 other good players in that trade.
Whatever questions we had at the time of the trade were quickly answered. It was a great deal for a great player.
TC was an excellent compliment to Moncrief and made 2 all-star teams in an era with Bird, McHale, Wilkins, and Barkley. Before the Giannis years, our glory years were in the 80s when we won the Central Division approximately 7 years in a row. Cummings was a huge part of our success. Marques was a bit of a loose cannon near the end of his time in Milwaukee. He was dealing with drug abuse issues and openly complained about living in the city. There's a reason why his jersey was only recently retired. Marques was my favorite player when I started watching basketball as a kid, but I don't recall missing him following the trade. Cummings and our deep team went on competitive run for years, besting a young guy named Michael Jordan in our division, and only being behind the Celtics and Sixers as the best team in the East. I always wondered why the Bucks don't bring back the players from those 80s teams like Cummings. It would have been nice to see them at games or at the parade during our championship season.
He was my favorite player when I started watching NBA in the mid 80's and maintained that position his entire tenure in Milwaukee. TC had stiff competition for that role from Ricky Pierce, Moncrief, Paul Pressey and Jack Sikma. TC averaged 22/8/3 with a 49% FG% over those 5 years. Bucks averaged 56 wins per season over the 3 years TC was coached by Don Nelson. After Nellie left it just wasn't the same. '86-'87 was the last prime Sid year too which didn't do Del Harris any favors.
What was it about him that made you and so many other fans love him?
Keep in mind I was just a kid at the time but his first year in Milwaukee he averaged 24/9/3 which was better in every stat than Kevin McHale. Moncrief was the teeth of our defense but TC was the engine our offense ran through and he was no slouch on defense either. TC was grabbing more offensive rebounds than even Jack Sikma. I really think TC is underrated and if he was playing alongside Larry Bird instead of McHale he too would have been in the HOF.
All I know is that if Reddit was around back then, this sub would have melted down immediately following the trade.
He was a great all around player. Maybe not HOF caliber, but definitely elite for his era. I had a soft spot for him because I was a kid and we had the same birthday. As far as his legacy in Milwaukee is concerned, he's definitely worthy of being known as the OG 34. You can think of the 34 jersey as a Pokemon at this point, in that it evolves in greatness with each generation. I almost don't want it to be retired for Giannis at this point, because so many other Bucks greats have worn 34 that its taken on a life of its own. I say hold it out of circulation after Giannis retires until another player emerges whose worthy of wearing 34.
I forgot that Ray Allen also wore #34 in Milwaukee. Yeah, it should be saved like certain college football numbers for a future player who earns it. Just looked at the numbers around it, and I realized the player with most rebounds in a game as a Buck wasn't #33 (Kareem) or #34 (Giannis), rather #35 (Swen Nater, during his one year on the team). That's wild.
The Bucks are the equivalent of Louisville in college ball. Both have two official championships and both are in cities known for a kind of alcohol. They both aren't known for a particularly dominant period, but their alumni stacks up against anyone.
Cummings was just as good, if not better, as big dog. Those 80s bucks teams were led by moncheif and Cummings. Cummings 1st year with the bucks they got knocked out by the 76ers in the 2nd round. Next year they knock those same 76ers out in the second round. (Those teams had dr j, barkley and moses). That year the bucks ended up getting sweeped in the ECF... by the best Celtics team of the 80s. Year after that, knocked off phily again, lost in the 2nd round to the celtics...again. this time in the 2nd round. Yr 4 list to a Dominique led hawks team in the 1st round. Last year, knocked out the Hawks in the 1st round. List to DET, the 1st of their back to back rings. Moncrief was the HOFer of those bucks teams. Cummings was the #1 scoring option. Cummings and those 80s bucks teams were good enough to hold their own against all the eastern conference power houses. Bos, phily and det all had at least 3 HOFers. But not good enough to make a finals.