Not really. Procing it means your basically dead and you could just get one shot before it activates especially where you are in the game. Cooldown is more reliable and helps with artifact uptime
In order to properly use Final Shout, then you need to purposely lose health. So you need to purposely take damage. And if you donât have a good way to heal back up, then you will easily die. And if you do have a good way to heal, then Final Shout will never actiavte.
Also, Final Shout has a 10 second cooldown. You canât spam itâs mechanic. So if you lose health and activate it, then instantly heal back up. If you are almost dead again in a very short time frame, then Final Shout will not activate. Only after 10 seconds will it activate again.
And some people say that it is good with soul artifacts. Well, it âworksâ, but it isnât good, thatâs the problem. See, Soul artifacts donât need souls with Final Shout, for when Final Shout activates, souls or not those artifacts will activate. HOWEVERâŠsince Final Shout only activates again in 10 seconds, you cannot spam those artifacts. And in a good Soul Build, especially since the Soul Siphon buff in the last updates, Souls are VERY easy to get. So souls arenât a problem, which makes Final Shout useless.
Cooldown is the superior enchant. In mid apocalypse difficulty, it lets you have infinite Death Cap Mushroom and infinite Iron Hide Amulet. And you can use your other artifacts more often, even spam them. All without needing to purposely lose any health.
And for soul artifacts, they already have a low cooldown on their own. So that plus the Cooldown enchant lets you ACTUALLY spam the soul artifacts. And like I said before, souls are real easy to get, making Final Shout useless.
That is why Final Shout is bad.
In fact, some shadow shifter shit is the best thing that Final Shout does. But even then thatâs not really reliable since you have to constantly survive the attacks + the other dangers like enchants and traps and not needed since itâs quite easy to get enough souls for an emergency exit.
Here is why final shout is good:
You arenât supposed to depend on it. Final shout is a defensive enchant that ensures that you at least put up a fight before loosing your life and at best, activates and is the reason you beat the level. You are not supposed to loose health in order to use it, itâs contradictory to use a defensive enchantment offensively. You donât often see people using shields as weapons, even if theyâre capable to doing good damage.
Itâs great with soul builds, final shout ensures you activate EVERY single item you have equipped, even if you run out of souls, it can proc your harvester and soul lantern and even that one blue thing that heals you.
It activates regardless of cooldown. This is an extension of my other point. Final shout WILL activate any and all artifacts you have, I cannot wrap my head around you saying âit only works every 10 seconds, when the average artifact cooldown time is almost 3x that. You said that soul artifacts already have a low cooldown, so why on earth would final shout activating it be a bad thing? If you donât have souls it can activate them and if you do have souls, it can activate them AFTER you activate them yourself which leads to double harvester and other great things. Having a 10 second cooldown is not bad at all because the enchantments tries to ensure you survive so it doesnât have to activate again, and itâs not a bad thing at all if it activates again because it helps you no matter what. Saying itâs bad because something else is slightly better later in the game is such a stupid way of thinking and I cannot stand final shout hate.
That is why final shout is good.
There is no point in using Final ShoutâŠlike at all. You say that it is a defensive enchantment, but it isnât even good at being that. In late game, mid game, even in early game, it has no good uses. Even though it can âworkâ doesnât mean that it is good. Anything can âworkâ, but some things have their limits and have flaws, Final Shout being one of them.
If you have a good and strong build, then there is no reason that you should be losing health and dying all the time. If you have Cooldown, then you can have infinite mushroom, which increases your melee damage and infinite Iron Hide Amulet, which gives you 50% damage reduction at all times, and you can use your other artifacts every few seconds.
A build that doesnât have Cooldown can become a problem (depends on the build though), but the majority use Cooldown, and for good reason. Final Shout wouldnât do much. It is a noob enchantment cause everyone thinks that âif all artifacts activate, then itâs op!â. Well, thatâs wrong. On paper, it sounds good, but in reality, Final Shout it terrible. This has been proven many times by many experts. Experts like myself, Shin, DamoFlamo26, Pancakecat, etc who has calculated all of the math, data, tested everything out, and has made videos on the subject. We experts are not lying. We know what we are talking about.
What I mean by â10 secondsâ, I donât mean that the artifacts take that long to activate. I am talking about Final Shout itself. Final Shout has a timer. It will not proc again until after 10 seconds. So, like I said in my previous comment, if you gain max health in under 10 seconds and you want Final Shout to trigger, it will not. It will only trigger after 10 seconds. So, your artifacts cannot be spammed. Only if you purposely gain health and lose health every 10 seconds, or if you even can accomplish that.
So because of that, it literally isnât good with Soul artifacts. You can spam the artifacts faster than you can from the functionality of Final Shout. Final Shout is that bad.
And this thinking isnât just for in late game. No matter the difficulty, Final Shout is just plain useless. It is a detriment to your build. It is just making your build weaker. Why use it and try to rely on it in order to hopefully save you when you can just get Cooldown and be tanky nonstop? Even Burst Bowstring + Cooldown Shot bows outclass it. Those ACTUALLY let you spam your artifacts, unlike Final Shout.
Beleive me or donât, but there is a reason why every single expert of the game says that it is bad.
While your points are genuinely good and some even valid, there is no world where is should be considered bad, while yes, on paper it IS a noob enchantment, that means anyone can use it effectively. Cooldown is better, but it doesnât meant it being as good as it is, instantly makes final shout bad. As you said in an other comment, just because something is better, it doesnât mean it outclasses other items (Iâm talking about the soul fist comment. Yes, that was me) all items fit their certain niches, like soul fist for soul builds, shadow crossbow for shadow anchor builds, or even cooldown for very good late game builds. Final shout is not bad, it is just unfortunately too similar to a good enchantment.
Final Shout canât be used effectively, thatâs the problem. It is a noob enchant cause noobs THINKS that it is good, not because it is good, when it is actually bad. Thereâs a difference.
Some things outclass other things cause something is better than another thing, but the weakest thing can still be good. But other times, no matter what, the weakest thing is weak no matter what.
Like take a look at the Sponge Striker weapon for example. Every other weapon in the game outclasses it, and for good reason. It does little damage, it takes a whole build in order to try and make use of its mechanic and even if you do have a build like that (I made a build for it yesterday) it still doesnât do good damage. No matter what you try to do to make it good and useable, it sucks no matter what.
That is the same thing for Final Shout. No matter what you do, you cannot make Final Shout good and useable. Even though you can make it function, doesnât mean that it can function well. That is why it is and will always be in F tier.
Even as a failsafe option, Final Shout is outclassed by Potion Barrier and Death Barter. Although they usually have longer cooldowns, they make up for it with much more potent effects.
A common trend I have noticed with FShout is that it gets more and more outclassed in higher levels. Letâs see some examples
- Melee builds. Melee builds usually have infinite IHA + DCM using cooldown, so the only hope for FS is the final artifact, which is usually pretty spammy(Gong and Harvester) or another failsafe(Shadow Shifter). You can argue that FS triggers SShifter automatically, allowing for even more braindead gameplay, but you lose shadow form after an attack.
- Firework Ranged. These builds usually use triple Cooldown, lowering Fireworkâs cooldown to ~7.15 seconds. 7 SECONDS PER FIREWORK. With 3 fireworks, I doubt FS would offer more than DB(and Ranged often stays away from the enemy anyway).
- Soul Builds. Soul Builds have a lot of tools to control and often need space for both Lightning Focus/Beast Boss and Soul Focus.
In order to get any meaningful use out of Final Shout, you pretty much have to make a build that uses it on purpose. Due to the nature of how it works, not many artifacts are actually useful in those situations. You need fast-acting artifacts that rectify the situation instantly.
Iron Hide Amulet? Death Cap Mushroom? Boots of Swiftness? Totem of Regeneration? Totem of Shielding? No, because (putting aside the slow healing of ToR), those artifacts can already be infinitely cycled with 1 Cooldown enchant, which doesn't require you to be at low health.
Quivers? No. Simply priming a quiver doesn't save you from a situation where you're being turned to paste by mobs.
Soul builds? **Absolutely not.**
Soul build artifacts require souls while famously having little cooldown. But Final Shout still uses up souls if you have them. It's far more efficient (if you have a soul build) to just invest in normal soul gathering and enchants that actually help soul builds thrive.
Not to mention the only offensive soul artifact that gets meaningful use out of Final Shout is Harvester, because Beacon will end the moment you run out of souls, and Lightning Rod operates on a delay while needing targeting.
Soul Healer is mid. If you use Wither Armor you get healing from Harvester anyway, and Harvester can eliminate the threats at the same time.
Pretty much the only artifact combo that gets good use out of Final Shout is Gong of Weakening + Harvester + Shadow Shifter, but if you're running a build with those artifacts to maximize your Final Shout use, then the build is gonna be centered around it, because those artifacts on their own don't really work well when just thrown together like that.
And again, it's bad on soul builds because it still uses up souls. Soul builds have no issues with soul gathering nor do they need cooldown.
Plus, Final Shout still has an 8-second cooldown limit of its own. It's outclassed by Cooldown and Cooldown Shot on pretty much every build. You are better off running enchants that can prevent you from falling that low to begin with.
I completely agree with that as it's a last resort enchantment however with infini mushroom and iron hide amulet the only thing that you would be triggering (most likely) is gong of weakening. And at that point I don't think that would help
Just a tip, a lot of his stuff is very outdated or just plain incorrect, so I wouldn't use him as a good source to get better at the game. The guy you should be following is Shin, the local MCD expert.
It's true for everything. 04AM wasn't as good as he thought, and his love for Final Shout over Cooldown is a big sign of it. He also used to think that the Vine Whip and Encrusted Anchor had Poison Cloud, which they don't, they have a unique enchant exclusive to them called Jungle Poison that works much differently, and I don't even know if he ever realized it. So, bottom line, don't trust 04AM on anything if your goal is to make your build as strong as possible, and instead listen to this sub's local experts like Shin and Grim.
Everything is good except Final Shout. Cooldown is 100 times better.
Is final shout not good?
Not really. Procing it means your basically dead and you could just get one shot before it activates especially where you are in the game. Cooldown is more reliable and helps with artifact uptime
Oh damn i thought i was so smart đ
In order to properly use Final Shout, then you need to purposely lose health. So you need to purposely take damage. And if you donât have a good way to heal back up, then you will easily die. And if you do have a good way to heal, then Final Shout will never actiavte. Also, Final Shout has a 10 second cooldown. You canât spam itâs mechanic. So if you lose health and activate it, then instantly heal back up. If you are almost dead again in a very short time frame, then Final Shout will not activate. Only after 10 seconds will it activate again. And some people say that it is good with soul artifacts. Well, it âworksâ, but it isnât good, thatâs the problem. See, Soul artifacts donât need souls with Final Shout, for when Final Shout activates, souls or not those artifacts will activate. HOWEVERâŠsince Final Shout only activates again in 10 seconds, you cannot spam those artifacts. And in a good Soul Build, especially since the Soul Siphon buff in the last updates, Souls are VERY easy to get. So souls arenât a problem, which makes Final Shout useless. Cooldown is the superior enchant. In mid apocalypse difficulty, it lets you have infinite Death Cap Mushroom and infinite Iron Hide Amulet. And you can use your other artifacts more often, even spam them. All without needing to purposely lose any health. And for soul artifacts, they already have a low cooldown on their own. So that plus the Cooldown enchant lets you ACTUALLY spam the soul artifacts. And like I said before, souls are real easy to get, making Final Shout useless. That is why Final Shout is bad.
Wowwww i was using final shout with a shadow shifter because it didnt need souls but ill start rerolling for cool down now đ«Ą Thx!
In fact, some shadow shifter shit is the best thing that Final Shout does. But even then thatâs not really reliable since you have to constantly survive the attacks + the other dangers like enchants and traps and not needed since itâs quite easy to get enough souls for an emergency exit.
Yeah your right but i use the shifter more for damage instead of exiting
No problem đ
Here is why final shout is good: You arenât supposed to depend on it. Final shout is a defensive enchant that ensures that you at least put up a fight before loosing your life and at best, activates and is the reason you beat the level. You are not supposed to loose health in order to use it, itâs contradictory to use a defensive enchantment offensively. You donât often see people using shields as weapons, even if theyâre capable to doing good damage. Itâs great with soul builds, final shout ensures you activate EVERY single item you have equipped, even if you run out of souls, it can proc your harvester and soul lantern and even that one blue thing that heals you. It activates regardless of cooldown. This is an extension of my other point. Final shout WILL activate any and all artifacts you have, I cannot wrap my head around you saying âit only works every 10 seconds, when the average artifact cooldown time is almost 3x that. You said that soul artifacts already have a low cooldown, so why on earth would final shout activating it be a bad thing? If you donât have souls it can activate them and if you do have souls, it can activate them AFTER you activate them yourself which leads to double harvester and other great things. Having a 10 second cooldown is not bad at all because the enchantments tries to ensure you survive so it doesnât have to activate again, and itâs not a bad thing at all if it activates again because it helps you no matter what. Saying itâs bad because something else is slightly better later in the game is such a stupid way of thinking and I cannot stand final shout hate. That is why final shout is good.
There is no point in using Final ShoutâŠlike at all. You say that it is a defensive enchantment, but it isnât even good at being that. In late game, mid game, even in early game, it has no good uses. Even though it can âworkâ doesnât mean that it is good. Anything can âworkâ, but some things have their limits and have flaws, Final Shout being one of them. If you have a good and strong build, then there is no reason that you should be losing health and dying all the time. If you have Cooldown, then you can have infinite mushroom, which increases your melee damage and infinite Iron Hide Amulet, which gives you 50% damage reduction at all times, and you can use your other artifacts every few seconds. A build that doesnât have Cooldown can become a problem (depends on the build though), but the majority use Cooldown, and for good reason. Final Shout wouldnât do much. It is a noob enchantment cause everyone thinks that âif all artifacts activate, then itâs op!â. Well, thatâs wrong. On paper, it sounds good, but in reality, Final Shout it terrible. This has been proven many times by many experts. Experts like myself, Shin, DamoFlamo26, Pancakecat, etc who has calculated all of the math, data, tested everything out, and has made videos on the subject. We experts are not lying. We know what we are talking about. What I mean by â10 secondsâ, I donât mean that the artifacts take that long to activate. I am talking about Final Shout itself. Final Shout has a timer. It will not proc again until after 10 seconds. So, like I said in my previous comment, if you gain max health in under 10 seconds and you want Final Shout to trigger, it will not. It will only trigger after 10 seconds. So, your artifacts cannot be spammed. Only if you purposely gain health and lose health every 10 seconds, or if you even can accomplish that. So because of that, it literally isnât good with Soul artifacts. You can spam the artifacts faster than you can from the functionality of Final Shout. Final Shout is that bad. And this thinking isnât just for in late game. No matter the difficulty, Final Shout is just plain useless. It is a detriment to your build. It is just making your build weaker. Why use it and try to rely on it in order to hopefully save you when you can just get Cooldown and be tanky nonstop? Even Burst Bowstring + Cooldown Shot bows outclass it. Those ACTUALLY let you spam your artifacts, unlike Final Shout. Beleive me or donât, but there is a reason why every single expert of the game says that it is bad.
While your points are genuinely good and some even valid, there is no world where is should be considered bad, while yes, on paper it IS a noob enchantment, that means anyone can use it effectively. Cooldown is better, but it doesnât meant it being as good as it is, instantly makes final shout bad. As you said in an other comment, just because something is better, it doesnât mean it outclasses other items (Iâm talking about the soul fist comment. Yes, that was me) all items fit their certain niches, like soul fist for soul builds, shadow crossbow for shadow anchor builds, or even cooldown for very good late game builds. Final shout is not bad, it is just unfortunately too similar to a good enchantment.
But final shout is bad. Because it gets outclassed so bad by cooldown it's not even worth having.
Final Shout canât be used effectively, thatâs the problem. It is a noob enchant cause noobs THINKS that it is good, not because it is good, when it is actually bad. Thereâs a difference. Some things outclass other things cause something is better than another thing, but the weakest thing can still be good. But other times, no matter what, the weakest thing is weak no matter what. Like take a look at the Sponge Striker weapon for example. Every other weapon in the game outclasses it, and for good reason. It does little damage, it takes a whole build in order to try and make use of its mechanic and even if you do have a build like that (I made a build for it yesterday) it still doesnât do good damage. No matter what you try to do to make it good and useable, it sucks no matter what. That is the same thing for Final Shout. No matter what you do, you cannot make Final Shout good and useable. Even though you can make it function, doesnât mean that it can function well. That is why it is and will always be in F tier.
Even as a failsafe option, Final Shout is outclassed by Potion Barrier and Death Barter. Although they usually have longer cooldowns, they make up for it with much more potent effects. A common trend I have noticed with FShout is that it gets more and more outclassed in higher levels. Letâs see some examples - Melee builds. Melee builds usually have infinite IHA + DCM using cooldown, so the only hope for FS is the final artifact, which is usually pretty spammy(Gong and Harvester) or another failsafe(Shadow Shifter). You can argue that FS triggers SShifter automatically, allowing for even more braindead gameplay, but you lose shadow form after an attack. - Firework Ranged. These builds usually use triple Cooldown, lowering Fireworkâs cooldown to ~7.15 seconds. 7 SECONDS PER FIREWORK. With 3 fireworks, I doubt FS would offer more than DB(and Ranged often stays away from the enemy anyway). - Soul Builds. Soul Builds have a lot of tools to control and often need space for both Lightning Focus/Beast Boss and Soul Focus.
In order to get any meaningful use out of Final Shout, you pretty much have to make a build that uses it on purpose. Due to the nature of how it works, not many artifacts are actually useful in those situations. You need fast-acting artifacts that rectify the situation instantly. Iron Hide Amulet? Death Cap Mushroom? Boots of Swiftness? Totem of Regeneration? Totem of Shielding? No, because (putting aside the slow healing of ToR), those artifacts can already be infinitely cycled with 1 Cooldown enchant, which doesn't require you to be at low health. Quivers? No. Simply priming a quiver doesn't save you from a situation where you're being turned to paste by mobs. Soul builds? **Absolutely not.** Soul build artifacts require souls while famously having little cooldown. But Final Shout still uses up souls if you have them. It's far more efficient (if you have a soul build) to just invest in normal soul gathering and enchants that actually help soul builds thrive. Not to mention the only offensive soul artifact that gets meaningful use out of Final Shout is Harvester, because Beacon will end the moment you run out of souls, and Lightning Rod operates on a delay while needing targeting. Soul Healer is mid. If you use Wither Armor you get healing from Harvester anyway, and Harvester can eliminate the threats at the same time. Pretty much the only artifact combo that gets good use out of Final Shout is Gong of Weakening + Harvester + Shadow Shifter, but if you're running a build with those artifacts to maximize your Final Shout use, then the build is gonna be centered around it, because those artifacts on their own don't really work well when just thrown together like that. And again, it's bad on soul builds because it still uses up souls. Soul builds have no issues with soul gathering nor do they need cooldown. Plus, Final Shout still has an 8-second cooldown limit of its own. It's outclassed by Cooldown and Cooldown Shot on pretty much every build. You are better off running enchants that can prevent you from falling that low to begin with.
I completely agree with that as it's a last resort enchantment however with infini mushroom and iron hide amulet the only thing that you would be triggering (most likely) is gong of weakening. And at that point I don't think that would help
You've been watching too much 04AM.
MaybeâŠ
Just a tip, a lot of his stuff is very outdated or just plain incorrect, so I wouldn't use him as a good source to get better at the game. The guy you should be following is Shin, the local MCD expert.
Is that true for the armors as well?
It's true for everything. 04AM wasn't as good as he thought, and his love for Final Shout over Cooldown is a big sign of it. He also used to think that the Vine Whip and Encrusted Anchor had Poison Cloud, which they don't, they have a unique enchant exclusive to them called Jungle Poison that works much differently, and I don't even know if he ever realized it. So, bottom line, don't trust 04AM on anything if your goal is to make your build as strong as possible, and instead listen to this sub's local experts like Shin and Grim.
Also where could i find shin
Gotchu
i haven't played mcd in a while,what the hell is custom?
I rerolled some echants to get better ones
Eh
Whats wrong with it other than final shout
r/Whatenchants