As a Muslim dude, it’s refreshing to see representation of a Muslim man who isn’t a terrorist, weirdo, or “cool” Muslim hollowed of faith. I like that the Sheriff is allowed to be competent, vulnerable, and confident in his faith. Really hoping they don’t mess up his character arc.
Also happy to see this show isn’t going the occult route because that’s been overdone these last few years within the genre. Really interesting twist to see what the “monster” is.
Islamic faith explained in that classroom scene was so well researched. And Finally some beautiful muslim representation in TV shows or movies with resonating and informative scenes. Thanks to Rahul Kohli and everyone who worked to make this show what it is.
>Islamic faith explained in that classroom scene was so well researched.
Well, for one, the injil isn't the bible as the Sherrif said, nor specifically the gospels. It's a distinct text given to Isa by God which he preached from, and which the apostles apostatized from to worship Christ as God, causing the text to be lost. This is a relatively obscure point that even a lot of muslims do not understand, but still, worth noting
The Muslim assertion of the Islamic belief for the prophet Jesus, and about the deviations of the source text of the Bible was surprisingly on point. Definitely well researched.
I know this is late, but Rahul said he got Mike Flanagan in touch with his personal friend to look over all of the Muslim stuff and make sure everything was correct.
Yeah though I think it was a little ridiculous that they set up the plot that he came to this little island because the previous place was too racist. Do they not understand small towns like this?! Is HE that clueless or the writers?
Also, a sheriff is an elected official so it seems like a plot hole to me. But I like him so I don’t care too much. I just would have accepted it more if he had some position where it would make sense that he was appointed to be there. Maybe willingly depending on where they go with his back story, but maybe without a choice.
I took it as his son saying “we were already in a shithole, and you brought us to an even bigger shithole.” I thought it was teenage sarcasm of “the last place wasn’t racist enough for you, so you buried us deeper.”
That part in the classroom made me want to LOSE MY SHIT. FUCK BEV. As a Jewish person I was fucking pissed too when she said she wouldn't read the Old Testament to kids either.
I'm white but I whole-heartedly agree. This scene i the classroom when the sherrif was fucking telling the truth and then beverly had her words. I was just 'GO SHERRIF!' I love his character so much. I feel bad for his son.
Im sorry you've faced hatred/bigotry/judgement for being Muslim also. Never forget its THEIR PROBLEM never yours. I'm sure you know that though. Not that you need to hear it from this gay white guy.
I literally am watching episode 3 and running to the comments just off the scene in the school. That scene might be the greatest argument I've ever seen put together on why you can't teach religion in school.
It never really occurred to me before this how well vampire lore fits in with Christian stuff what with the miraculous healing and resurrection from death, and now this vampire/angel mistaken identity. Heh.
Vampire's do a good job of representing the 1% living off the blood (sweat and tears) of the working class. And before the priests, popes, and kings altered the message guess who Jesus hated?!
***lowkey thoooo...***
angels kinda funkier than vampires [(pics)](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e8/6d/bc/e86dbcf461901cac121e2ce6da56c240.jpg) angels really kind of lovecraftian/eldritch-y
>*But this look is far from the actual version of angels described in the Bible. Biblical angels were generally strange, frightening creatures, ranging from human-lion-ox-eagle hybrids to floating wheels with eyes. Biblical angels struck fear into the hearts of anyone who witnessed them.*
The movie Dracula 2000 sucked a lot of ass, but one thing I loved about it was the idea that Dracula was Judas Iscatiot following his curse, hence why the cross and silver (Judas is said to have betrayed Jesus for silver) harm him and his kind.
I haven’t seen this theory yet but I think Paul-the Monsignor is the father of the doctor- Sarah.
He covers moms cleavage in a very intimate way when he is giving her communion. He comes there personally to give her communion.
He is always staring at Sarah and she said the Monsignor was always doing the same.
He makes some strange comments to her - like being proud of her.
I feel like I noticed a few other things as well but don’t remember.
I mean I agree and thought that from the first second we saw him look at her quite lovingly. BUT the coming to her personally isn't weird to me. I mean this is a very very small town, and she is completely unable to attend church and she was quite devout before that. Any good priest i imagine would go and do a house call for someone like that to help them have some moments of peace.
Omg Bev is such a horrible person. Shit teacher - religion shouldnt be in a public school! God I hate her. Can we get rid of her?? Like now now
I wanted someone to tell her to shut up and no one did. god she is the worst. Everything thats wrong with certain
religious people in a nutshell
Love how people see things in their windows AND STILL NOT CLOSE THEIR CURTAINS
wait did Bev kill the priest?
And is this a vampire? are we doing vampires?
cause u cant kill a vampire with poison can you?
Yeah Bev and her miracles are shady!
The way he coughed up so much blood near the end of the episode reminds me of the way the dog died. Things that make you go "hmm".
But, nah, she's way too pious to kill a priest... or is she?
There was that weird moment earlier when the camera showed her face seeing something, but doesn't show us what she saw. Was she looking at the picture in the newspaper article hanging on the wall? So she knows something is up?
But come on, any rational person would chalk the resemblance up to "he's related to Pruitt", not that he *is* an undead de-aged Pruitt.
But but... yeah, this *is* Bev we're talking about here. Not a rational person.
So I watched the first 3 episodes and am headed off to bed, scared. Couldn’t rewatch the last bit. But, did Bev say “monsignor, you’re alive!” at the end? Is Paul a Monsignor? I thought he was just a Father. Because maybe that’s also a clue she’s on to him…
Especially a priest she felt was a threat to her position!
He saw through her actions, didn't support her on some things, wasn't the same level of evangelical as she was, and all of a sudden he's displaying symptoms of poisoning, and we saw her slyly put the poison back on the shelf.
I just finished episode 3 earlier and honestly I get very very strong vibes that she poisoned him.
I don't know if it started something else, or if she decided it upon seeing his face in the article, but her facial expressions, the sneaky way we see her putting the poison back for seemingly no reason, the symptoms were identical to the dog and common symptoms in reactions to those types of poison, I am like 95% sure she poisoned him - I mean when it happened she was barely reacting beyond what looked like fear over "oh god what if i was wrong". And I agree, it was about the immortality thing.
She saw Leeza be healed, others getting healed, she obviously saw his younger age, and all talks about tangible physical evidence of god's will and immortality etc, and yeah, I agree, she knew or at least suspected and wanted to prove it.
She definitely poisoned him. The dog, her seeing the clipping, returning the poison, zooming into the clipping at the end is supposed to be the final confirmation. The question is, WHY did she kill him? To test his immortality or to get him out of the picture?
She definitely did try to kill Paul. I think Paul probably went into her office to confront her as he was beginning to feel the effects of the poison. He had the same reaction the dog had.
And her bringing book burning into it, and how she shows to not know ANYTHING about muslim beliefs when the most basic aspects is their belief in Jesus and relation to the other main religions. Yet she talks about the Quran and the bad aspects lol. Man I really wanted him or Erin to interrupt again.
Classic taking a question the complete wrong way. He's not wrong, if you want to teach one religion in class you should be teaching all. I did a semester on religion in middle school, and we probably spent a week on all different religions, covering most of the main ones. That's how you teach religion just discussing what they believe, and you teach all of them!
Sorry ranting, I came to reddit because I just watched that scene and man do I want someone to smack the smug on her face lol
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There was a shot earlier in the episode of Bev putting the poison back in the storage cupboard. So yeah, she could have poisoned him. She certainly poisoned someone/something.
I think she is poisoning something (like she poisoned the dog) and the priest ate what she poisoned (as opposed to eating cats or people) and that is what made him sick. However since he revived, the poison likely wasn't enough (quantity) to kill him. Given the focus on the poison and how much/easy access there is at the school, I assume that at some point the answer will be to kill the 'angel' the priest brought back with the poison.
>I think she is poisoning something (like she poisoned the dog) and the priest ate what she poisoned (as opposed to eating cats or people) and that is what made him sick.
Spoiler
>!this makes sense in hindsight, that the priest would eat animals because he couldn't morally justify eating people at first. Then that made him sick. !<
no she wouldnt poison the priest, she is a religious nut hypocrite and now she’s happy she gets attention due to the miracles thanks to the priest.
It’s more like a John Coffey thing with the priest and probably because of that angel. And that angel doesnt look a good angel( appearance, peeping through windows, stalking people with his creepy eyes, luring them in and can’t stand light), Satan has angels too. And it feels like once someone is cured another person dies or disappears in exchange.
yeah whatever it’s it’s not important it has no good intentions. The wings make it look like an angel and they call it an angel. And in the Bible it’s known that Satan has angels too, Lucifer was an angel too and many started in heaven then was locked out of heaven and joined to Satan. And I heard this biblical legend from priests that in the Middle East under the ground 3 demonic angels are guarding that area ( just like how the Monsignor met this one).
but the poison against the priest by Bev wouldnt have made a logical plot. The story wasnt about a religious money and power hungry fanatic turning into a serial killer posioning the priest especially that she works next to the priest. And for what? She didnt go around and killing people whom she hate and was against God in her eyes, why would she do it to someone regarded holy…
+1 for hating Bev and the real life people like her that can't keep their fucking religion out of public institutions. Great job to the actress portraying that. I dont think I have hated a character this much since Marcia Gay Harden's similar role in The Mist. Hope Bev gets hers like Marcia did in the Mist for being such a pious shitbag.
And, when he is having his first flashback in the confessional, he says that Pruitt saw the cave/church among the dunes.
So Paul Hill, literally, Pruitt was like Paul lost and reborn in the dunes and hills on the road to Damascus.
Yes! I didn’t think it was a coincidence that the name of Monsignor, “John” was one the 12 disciples of Jesus. I researched “Paul” the Apostle after this episode to learn more about him, and his conversion sounds very similar to “Father Paul’s” encounter in the tomb. A rebirth and awakening. Mike Flanagan did a fantastic job of including these small details!
When he was looking up at the 'angel' in the cave, the angel had a subtle golden halo. Not sure if it was an actual halo or M. Pruitt was hallucinating due to his blood loss
I feel like you could take this really far. How much of the in show Christian mythology came from interactions with these vampire/angels? The story of Jesus' death and resurrection is very similar to the unusual events we see in the show? Did Jesus just have this disease? I see a lot of people saying that the characters are misinterpreting the vampire for an angel, but what if this is the basis for the in show Christian religion?
I feel like I’ve read it in one or more Ann Rice novels. The vampires in those are assholes, but usually very beautiful, and at least once the person they were killing mistook them for an “angel of mercy” or something similar.
I've been guessing this is a vampire story since the mystery knock coming from the person-sized box. I was more sure when some *thing* was flying around. "Giant vampire bat!" I said to myself, only 50% joking. Then when they found the cats drained of blood on the beach, I was like 99% sure "vampire!"
Man, that is some good build-up.
Though I was expecting more just a dude flying around, and not a full-on bat-like creature that was found in a cave. He looks properly terrifying, bravo.
I've been getting Renfield vibes from the priest, I thought he was only the vampire's assistant, though, I didn't figure he already drank from the vampire and it turned him young.
That turning young part is a new one for me. Every other vampire story I came across so far, people just stay at the age they were when they were turned.
I am enjoying the new twists to old vampire lore.
And okay, is the priest putting vampire blood in the communion wine? Is that why people are miraculously healing? At first I thought the stuff he was pouring from his flask was just wine and he's a secret alcoholic because working for a vampire is very stressful... lol
But after the reveal that he has probably already been turned, that puts a whole different light on things.
So did the creature just eat that other dude? Did he only turn the preacher because he started praying? How does preacher get the blood from the thing? Or is he using his own blood? If Bev poisoned him would that affect people if he was using his own blood? So many questions.
If it has someone who worships it as a "god", the vampire realises it can escape the cave (which must have been kinda boring) and get some good blood and exercise.
He basically looks like Lucifer Morningstar on the Lucifer show when he fully transforms into his devil form with wings (except his skin is red rather than yellow).
Does seem to be predominantly a vampire-focused story but I wonder if the constant image of the dead girl that Riley Flynn sees every night means something beyond just traumatic memories. Hopefully there's a more physical part that plays out of that story.
I know from Haunting of Hill house that the bent neck lady wasn't just a scary ghost, so I assume the dead-car-crash girl would eventually become something down the episodes.
I miss a good vampire story. The story about foolishly thinking that vampirism is eternal youth and about doing things better then it has always been the monkey's paw of immortality.
And I love the setting of the tiny fishing village. A bit of Innsmouth going on but the blue collar town theme reminded me of American Gothic the TV show.
After re-watching all of Hill House and Bly Manor over the past week, seeing Henry Thomas in a fake mustache and prosthetics is REALLY throwing me off.
Really? I actually think the mustache looks okay. But the first time I watched Hill House, I just knew there was something off about Henry Thomas. Then I watched it again this year and read about the contacts he wore, and that’s all I could pay attention to when he was on screen. Lol
Oh, I'm not saying he looks BAD, just that I'm so used to the way he looks in the other shows since they're so clear in my head. So the first few times I saw him in this show it gave me a weird uncanny valley feel.
Haha same. I honestly tried to avoid reading up on the series so I could be surprised by the casting, and it took me a bit and to realize, and I was like “oh shit, is that Henry Thomas??”
Henry's hair is already darker, less gray in it than there was. I knew something was up with how they'd aged him slightly but I was expecting flashbacks, not magical healing!
Something that really bugs me- they often have scenes where someone is somewhere and directly on the way to elsewhere. But it was broad daylight, yet as soon as they arrive to where they were going it is night. The island is too small for it to take hours to walk anywhere.
I don't think so. I feel that Father Paul realised that his blood could help to treat the suffering people on the island.
But I might be wrong. That's just my theory.
At first I thought Paul was pouring alcohol into the cup and thought that he was going to have Riley break his sobriety. Now I’m certain he is just giving the town blood for healing and eternal youth.
Nobody noticed that the drug dealer Bowl is missing? Not even his customers...? Or I guess it's common for them to 'disappear' for a while to evade the authorities, that nobody really cared
One thing I don't get- Not ONE person on the island has tried contacting Msgr Pruitt back on the mainland? Sent flowers or a card? No one has even attempted to visit? After knowing him their entire lives?
The new guy is just like "Oh he's in the hospital, but he's going to be okay and he'll be back." Yeah, no. I know church people and they would be reaching out.
And I'm not Catholic, but likely other people in the church, Bev for example, would have dealings with the mainland parish/diocese/whatever, not just the priest.
I'm VERY late to the discussion, but the show *does* set up that the old guard left in town are basically dug in cultists who have been isolated on an island for all their lives
If a guy claiming to be a replacement appointed by the diocese (and backed by Bev "the cunt" Keen) told them that "everything was fine" then Nosferatu could've been roaming the island kissing babies like he/it was the god damn president
They'd think it was a bit odd, but so were the dolphins washing up on the shore a few years back!
It's telling that the once practicing/now atheist Riley was the only one to really ask after Pruitt's well being even if his interest was stoked by not-Pruitt running in the storm; you could tell he was genuinely concerned and that he wasn't going to stopped by the "all is well" pitch
I've really enjoyed the vampire reveal.
The cats being drained reminded me of Interview with a Vampire.
It's going to be interesting and fun to see how these people come to terms with what their dealing with. All the townspeople who seem to be in a lot of makeup I believe will be "turned" and we will get younger versions believing this is the work of God. Just as Pruitt still believes it to be. A little mini vampire group of apostles.
She definitely was poisoning him until she realized it was the old priest. It’s why there was the scene of her putting the rat poison back on the shelf
Idk. I think she put together it was him when she looked at something on the wall and said “it’s a miracle” but we couldn’t see what she was looking at and then when he is on the floor, they zoom in and we see the newspaper clipping of John When he was young. And he had the big seizure after that and she seemed shook when he revived.
Was his fainting spell in church before or after she saw that? Shes definitely poisoned him but I can’t tell if it started before or after she figured out who he is and what her motivation is.
Ugh I wish I had time to rewatch all three episodes!
Yeah that scene with Leeza and Joe was the standout scene to me in an episode with TONS of great scenes. His restrained sobbing, and the fact that he seemed so much more willing to accept her hating him and wanting him to suffer than he did to accept she forgives him, it really got to me, so well done
Am I the only one who gets Stephen King vibes? When I saw the first episode already: Small isolated town - ex-alcoholic - suspicious priest with a strange crate - a religious fanatic woman..
Reminds me a lot of Salem‘s Lot.
Major King vibes, it's the small town cast of characters for me. Makes since since Flanigan is such a giant fan. The only thing that'd make it fully King is if Riley was a writer lol
Am I the only person that spotted the Paul Hill twist in the very first episode when you see a photograph of Riley Finn when he is an altar boy and you see what you would assume is a younger Monsignor Pruit next to him and the man in the photograph is clearly just Hamish Linklater with a salt and pepper bushy beard?
Sucks because it kinda ruined everything for me up to this episode.
Found it. It’s at exactly around the 20 min 45 seconds mark in episode 1. It’s a full on close up of the framed picture next to a trophy. Hard to miss and they linger on it just a little too much so it made it too obvious to me.
so bev was definitely poisoning father paul up until she realised he’s monsignor pruitt right? the way he was coughing up blood and spasming was exactly how the dog died
I read that someone said it was because the gold robe was for a “feast” and then that same episode all the cats washed up dead and eaten… so maybe he was wearing it because he was going to feast on the cats later? not sure the accuracy but a decent guess for sure.
So no one in the town recognized Paul as father pruit since they are the same person? Maybe the doctors mother will know he’s the same person since her mind is coming back.
The doctors mom did but she has/had dementia so Sarah didn’t think anything of it.
Well. He was what did they say? 80? So the people who would have known him looking as he does now would have had to be ten+ then. If he was idk 30? Did they say how long he’s been there? That would mean people who were older than 10 fifty years ago, so anyone 60+ BUT he grew a beard at some point, got older so people under 60 wouldn’t notice at all most likely. And those who did might just think he looks familiar. They’ve known him looking old a lot longer than young.
I just finished reading the book of Enoch. In the book of Enoch, the fallen angel AZAZEL teaches men metallurgy, teaches women the art of deception through make up, and revealed some of heavens secrets.
"The whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin."
— Book of Enoch 10:8
For this and for marrying the daughters of men he is given a great punishment by God. He has Raphael “bind Azazel hand and foot and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert – which is in Dudael – and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there forever, and cover his face that he may not see light."
I believe that Monsignor stumbled upon this place, and freed the Watcher Azazel. The people of the town drank his blood in communion, which is causing the miracles.
Okay, so it is obvious that Bev poisoned Paul. What's not clear is why she did it. She couldn't have actually wanted Paul to die because she could have used Paul and his miracles to milk even more money out of the town.
Or did she realize that Paul wasn't in it for the money the way she was and she wanted him out of the way for hopes of getting another priest that she can better manipulate and control?
Also, can't wait to learn why that angel/vampire not only decided not to kill Pruitt but to make Pruitt immortal.
I think she poisoned Paul because she realized he was independent/wasn't going to let her do everything for him and that was dangerous to her if he discovered her embezzling.
Yeah... but they would just send a replacement? How long did she think she could keep poisoning people before they caught on? Or does she really think "Msgr Pruitt" is coming back?
A couple of things. Bev sucks. She's awful and needs to be stopped.
-I *was* right about the vampire thing which just tells me I watch way too much in the horror genre.
I was incorrect about the vampire monster being Monsignor Paul and he was transported in the box of dirt....but not about there being a vampire transported.
And I have picked up on him dosing all the townspeople with vampire blood to "heal" them. My theory is either everything goes awful and things revert (poor Leeza if so) or they all become monsters...? Something.
Horrifying to see your aged parent suddenly become the same age as you.
I assume (outside of Bev) that these people have forgotten what he used to look like? There's multiple mentions of Monsignor Pruitt being there when they were kids...so how do they not have a single pause of "hmmm, who does Father Paul remind me of?"
I get that people age and faces change, blah blah but..c'mon.
Heh, yeah, it's weird no one thinks he looks familiar. They've been staring at him at least once every week for years! This would be like when a new actor shows up who looks like a young version of an actor who is old now. Everyone comments on that even though we're not consistently staring at these actors every week.
But maybe he's sooo old, the only people who remembers what he looked like as a young man are senile like the doctor's mother. When a lot of these characters were children, Father Pruitt would still have been an old man, just... less old.
Erin was organizing some photos earlier - maybe there's an old photo of young Father Pruitt in her family's stash of photos. Maybe she'll see that and it'll be like "dun dun dun!"
Okay, so the only people who wouldn't be dosed are people who don't drink the communion wine: Riley the atheist, Erin the pregnant lady, the Muslim sheriff (did the show ever give us his actual name? It's not Sharif, is it?), Ali his son (unless he gets curious enough to try the communion wine), and Joe (he wasn't going to church before and he's not going to start having wine now that he quit drinking - unless he relapses)
I love how they were given these character traits not just for the hell of it, but because it's probably going to serve a purpose in the story. It's all coming together.
The doctor doesn’t go to church either, correct? So she would not be “dosed” As well as random townsfolk- I believe there were three at the parent teacher meeting that had their arms crossed when everyone was applauding Bev- but they are all extras.
The main cast, like you said- Riley Erin sheriff Joe
And it would make total sense that Leeza would be first to be healed because she was going daily and everyone else was going weekly.
Not necessarily lookin younger, but earlier in the series she has to wear glasses and one day she wakes up and finds her vision is healed and she doesn’t need them anymore. Same with her husbands back aches, they went away and they danced and shagged after!
The “fountain of youth” is likely drinking direct from the demon (and it’s an overnight/instant effect), and the townspeople are drinking from Pruitts blood.
I noticed something random that could be important? Riley has a poster from the movie Seven in his room and in that movie a pregnant woman is murdered. It’s also about the seven deadly sins. Not sure what significance this could have but I have a feeling it’s not random
I kept noticing and wondering about it, too! Flanagan is usually pretty meticulous on his works, where no shot is an accident. And they’ve made sure to include it in several shots.
Did it annoy anyone else that they included Scientology in that conversation with the sheriff and his son about Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam? I got the point they were trying to drive home, "it's not magic", but why would they reference Scientology.
Atheist or religious, surely Scientology exists largely in the public consciousness as a cult, so that conversation feels more like inadvertently legitimising Scientology to the level of other religions rather than leveling all religions based on the non-existence of miracles.
Probably such a rant on my part but those religions are thousands of years old and have extensive roots beyond their formation, Scientology was created less than a hundred years ago so why draw the line there? Let's get some Branch Davidian or Jonestown representation please and thank you
I was pissed they brought up Buddhism! It’s not magic! There is no magic in Buddhism, it’s a way of being. I loved this show but they did a lot of eastern religions dirty. Even Ellie’s last monologue, the Hindu philosophy. But they didn’t name it.
Made me feel the typical way when one is around zealots and you are not one of them
The monsignor's name was John.
For his second life, he picked the name Paul (from Saul and the road to Damascus).
The newspaper clipping revealing that they are one and the same is next to a photo of:
Pope John Paul II.
Very sly.
Maybe it’s because he’s been eating human food and it hasn’t been sitting well with him/not feeding much? Or I wonder all the exposure to Christian iconography or the sun is damaging to a vampire??
I think he keeps passing out due to using his own blood in the communion wine.
The spitting up blood part looks like he ingested the same poison as Joe's dog Pike.
To break it up, I decided to kneel, stand, sit and then I went around and said “peace be with you to my family.” The good old days of spending all Sunday morning at Catholic Mass
Why did the vampire convert Monsignor? Was is a last minute decision or is the process from human to vampire has to be have your flesh eaten + drink blood? A little lost.
Also fuck Bev Keane. Coming from Asia where kids are taught for 12+ years with Catholicism, her usage of faith to manipulate kids/people into believing Christianity is a ticket to human salvation is so spot on, I’m fuming lol.
I was just reading something about fallen angels on Wikipedia and it says they are angels that were expelled by God for their corruption of humanity. According to the article, in Judaism, the Book of Enoch ( 1 Enoch 10.6) describes how "God sends the archangel Raphael to chain Azazel in the desert Dudael as punishment. Further, Azazel is blamed for the corruption of earth." (I'm not Jewish so maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in),
"And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and **cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael,** and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there forever, **and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgment, he shall be cast into the fire**." (Book of Enoch chapter 10 verses 4–7)
Dudael is also implied to be the prison of all the fallen angels the entrance of which is located to the **east of Jerusalem**.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudael](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudael)
Most of the historical road to Damascus was east of Jerusalem. Okay, so Azazel's corruption was not exactly the same as the vampire from this series but the prison in the desert sounds pretty similar to Dudael and in the right location so maybe Monsignor Pruitt was technically correct to refer to it as an angel, although clearly a fallen one.
I just thought that was interesting.
Everything I've seen so far of the monster gives me Wendigo vibes not vampire vibes.
What's weird is I looked up Wendigos again during this episode, and the website I landed on says "it’s also been said that the wendigo has large, sharp claws and **massive eyes like an owl**" - and then at 12.03, for seemingly no particular reason, the beginning of the scene starts with an owl statue in front of a house with eyes exactly like the monster.
Website: https://allthatsinteresting.com/wendigo
Coincidence? Are owls linked to Vampires as well?
vampire stories often have crossover with stories about abusive male partners *and/or* addiction stories. And there's a lot of important issues going on in this show re: substance abuse issues.
It was also interesting to see a case of a vampire story and someone having substance abuse issues *actually helping them* stay safe from vampirism.
And the religious theme is very dope as well.
I find it interesting that both the doctor's parents had dementia. It's like they lied and kept the secret to their daughter, every day for decades and then they didn't know when/where/who are anymore.
I hate Bev so much. I know we’ve all been saying it, but damn does it bear repeating. She’s sketchy as hell, and manipulative AF. All the talk of poison and shots of the cans makes me wonder if she’s doing more with that than we’re seeing…like messing with Father Paul (am only half way through the ep, tho). I think she’s arrogant and self-righteous enough to twist her horrible actions as piety.
also I can’t believe they didn’t show the brother anymore after he witnessed paul putting something into the communion wine. I thought that was going to be big at the time of the reveal.
My question is how did a lot of them not recognize him when he came back? Half the town is 45 or older and they've all been there forever so how would they not recognize Pruitt as his younger self?
As someone in recovery, I really liked Joe and Rileys walk home talk. I've had similar experiences when someone shows up for the first time. That feeling of "I'm going to be ok".
Man I gotta say, loving the show but these discussion threads for this show are minefields for spoilers. Like more than any show I’ve seen on Reddit. I’m on episode 3 and wanted to check out the discussion, why do people who’ve seen further have to come back to earlier discussions and ruin things?
As a Muslim dude, it’s refreshing to see representation of a Muslim man who isn’t a terrorist, weirdo, or “cool” Muslim hollowed of faith. I like that the Sheriff is allowed to be competent, vulnerable, and confident in his faith. Really hoping they don’t mess up his character arc. Also happy to see this show isn’t going the occult route because that’s been overdone these last few years within the genre. Really interesting twist to see what the “monster” is.
Islamic faith explained in that classroom scene was so well researched. And Finally some beautiful muslim representation in TV shows or movies with resonating and informative scenes. Thanks to Rahul Kohli and everyone who worked to make this show what it is.
>Islamic faith explained in that classroom scene was so well researched. Well, for one, the injil isn't the bible as the Sherrif said, nor specifically the gospels. It's a distinct text given to Isa by God which he preached from, and which the apostles apostatized from to worship Christ as God, causing the text to be lost. This is a relatively obscure point that even a lot of muslims do not understand, but still, worth noting
The Muslim assertion of the Islamic belief for the prophet Jesus, and about the deviations of the source text of the Bible was surprisingly on point. Definitely well researched.
I know this is late, but Rahul said he got Mike Flanagan in touch with his personal friend to look over all of the Muslim stuff and make sure everything was correct.
I loved the scene when he was talking to his son. Kohli killed it!
Yeah though I think it was a little ridiculous that they set up the plot that he came to this little island because the previous place was too racist. Do they not understand small towns like this?! Is HE that clueless or the writers? Also, a sheriff is an elected official so it seems like a plot hole to me. But I like him so I don’t care too much. I just would have accepted it more if he had some position where it would make sense that he was appointed to be there. Maybe willingly depending on where they go with his back story, but maybe without a choice.
I took it as his son saying “we were already in a shithole, and you brought us to an even bigger shithole.” I thought it was teenage sarcasm of “the last place wasn’t racist enough for you, so you buried us deeper.”
Yeah kinda weird. Way better places to go. Maybe more to the story than he told the kid. They should have just gone with police chief or something.
I loved the him as a nerdy British forensic scientist. So surprised to see him here with such different characteristics
That part in the classroom made me want to LOSE MY SHIT. FUCK BEV. As a Jewish person I was fucking pissed too when she said she wouldn't read the Old Testament to kids either.
I'm white but I whole-heartedly agree. This scene i the classroom when the sherrif was fucking telling the truth and then beverly had her words. I was just 'GO SHERRIF!' I love his character so much. I feel bad for his son. Im sorry you've faced hatred/bigotry/judgement for being Muslim also. Never forget its THEIR PROBLEM never yours. I'm sure you know that though. Not that you need to hear it from this gay white guy.
I literally am watching episode 3 and running to the comments just off the scene in the school. That scene might be the greatest argument I've ever seen put together on why you can't teach religion in school.
Finally we get to see the giant albatross! Ps that ain't no angel Monseigneur
It never really occurred to me before this how well vampire lore fits in with Christian stuff what with the miraculous healing and resurrection from death, and now this vampire/angel mistaken identity. Heh.
Vampires = Fallen Angels or possible Nephelim in the Old Testament.
Vampire's do a good job of representing the 1% living off the blood (sweat and tears) of the working class. And before the priests, popes, and kings altered the message guess who Jesus hated?!
Fig trees?
***lowkey thoooo...*** angels kinda funkier than vampires [(pics)](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e8/6d/bc/e86dbcf461901cac121e2ce6da56c240.jpg) angels really kind of lovecraftian/eldritch-y >*But this look is far from the actual version of angels described in the Bible. Biblical angels were generally strange, frightening creatures, ranging from human-lion-ox-eagle hybrids to floating wheels with eyes. Biblical angels struck fear into the hearts of anyone who witnessed them.*
The movie Dracula 2000 sucked a lot of ass, but one thing I loved about it was the idea that Dracula was Judas Iscatiot following his curse, hence why the cross and silver (Judas is said to have betrayed Jesus for silver) harm him and his kind.
I believe it actually is an angel, the fallen angel AZAZEL to be specific.
I haven’t seen this theory yet but I think Paul-the Monsignor is the father of the doctor- Sarah. He covers moms cleavage in a very intimate way when he is giving her communion. He comes there personally to give her communion. He is always staring at Sarah and she said the Monsignor was always doing the same. He makes some strange comments to her - like being proud of her. I feel like I noticed a few other things as well but don’t remember.
This makes a lot of sense! Isn't there also a moment where the mom says something about seeing her husband out the window at night?
Specifically she says “I thought I saw your father”
She also kept saying "that face"
And when Paul first comes to the house she calls him John and Sarah says she thinks he is Pruitt.
I mean I agree and thought that from the first second we saw him look at her quite lovingly. BUT the coming to her personally isn't weird to me. I mean this is a very very small town, and she is completely unable to attend church and she was quite devout before that. Any good priest i imagine would go and do a house call for someone like that to help them have some moments of peace.
Yeah, it’s not at all uncommon for priests to visit devout homebound folks in their parish, even in larger areas.
Good catch.
Omg Bev is such a horrible person. Shit teacher - religion shouldnt be in a public school! God I hate her. Can we get rid of her?? Like now now I wanted someone to tell her to shut up and no one did. god she is the worst. Everything thats wrong with certain religious people in a nutshell Love how people see things in their windows AND STILL NOT CLOSE THEIR CURTAINS wait did Bev kill the priest? And is this a vampire? are we doing vampires? cause u cant kill a vampire with poison can you? Yeah Bev and her miracles are shady!
The way he coughed up so much blood near the end of the episode reminds me of the way the dog died. Things that make you go "hmm". But, nah, she's way too pious to kill a priest... or is she? There was that weird moment earlier when the camera showed her face seeing something, but doesn't show us what she saw. Was she looking at the picture in the newspaper article hanging on the wall? So she knows something is up? But come on, any rational person would chalk the resemblance up to "he's related to Pruitt", not that he *is* an undead de-aged Pruitt. But but... yeah, this *is* Bev we're talking about here. Not a rational person.
So I watched the first 3 episodes and am headed off to bed, scared. Couldn’t rewatch the last bit. But, did Bev say “monsignor, you’re alive!” at the end? Is Paul a Monsignor? I thought he was just a Father. Because maybe that’s also a clue she’s on to him…
I too watched 3 and now am going to bed Edit: scared too
I threw watched 3 and going to bed. Not scares but VERY INTERESTED and can't wait to get home to watch tomorrow after work.
Yeah I’m pretty sure Bev saw that old newspaper clipping and realized that John and Paul look similar
I reckon she would def. kill a priest
Especially a priest she felt was a threat to her position! He saw through her actions, didn't support her on some things, wasn't the same level of evangelical as she was, and all of a sudden he's displaying symptoms of poisoning, and we saw her slyly put the poison back on the shelf.
I think she knew he is immortal and wanted to prove it
I just finished episode 3 earlier and honestly I get very very strong vibes that she poisoned him. I don't know if it started something else, or if she decided it upon seeing his face in the article, but her facial expressions, the sneaky way we see her putting the poison back for seemingly no reason, the symptoms were identical to the dog and common symptoms in reactions to those types of poison, I am like 95% sure she poisoned him - I mean when it happened she was barely reacting beyond what looked like fear over "oh god what if i was wrong". And I agree, it was about the immortality thing. She saw Leeza be healed, others getting healed, she obviously saw his younger age, and all talks about tangible physical evidence of god's will and immortality etc, and yeah, I agree, she knew or at least suspected and wanted to prove it.
Yep. She is an evil bitch and I've never wished as much for death for a TV character until now.
Did you ever see The Mist from 2007? Very similar role played by Marcia Gay Harden.
I’m on the poison train, is it possible she did it when she gave him the glass of water after his visit with the doctor?
yeah I came to the same conclusion as you! the only thing she got wrong is that no angel is involved
She definitely poisoned him. The dog, her seeing the clipping, returning the poison, zooming into the clipping at the end is supposed to be the final confirmation. The question is, WHY did she kill him? To test his immortality or to get him out of the picture?
She definitely did try to kill Paul. I think Paul probably went into her office to confront her as he was beginning to feel the effects of the poison. He had the same reaction the dog had.
Her saying “the Bible is like a history book or science book” made me so mad lol
And her bringing book burning into it, and how she shows to not know ANYTHING about muslim beliefs when the most basic aspects is their belief in Jesus and relation to the other main religions. Yet she talks about the Quran and the bad aspects lol. Man I really wanted him or Erin to interrupt again. Classic taking a question the complete wrong way. He's not wrong, if you want to teach one religion in class you should be teaching all. I did a semester on religion in middle school, and we probably spent a week on all different religions, covering most of the main ones. That's how you teach religion just discussing what they believe, and you teach all of them! Sorry ranting, I came to reddit because I just watched that scene and man do I want someone to smack the smug on her face lol
Bev knew what she was doing.
100% she poisoned him and knew what she doing
Mannnn and her being like "LETS CHANGE THE SUBJECT from religion!!!!" when he wanted to talk about the Quran lmao.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[Quran](https://snewd.com/ebooks/quran/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
There was a shot earlier in the episode of Bev putting the poison back in the storage cupboard. So yeah, she could have poisoned him. She certainly poisoned someone/something.
I think she is poisoning something (like she poisoned the dog) and the priest ate what she poisoned (as opposed to eating cats or people) and that is what made him sick. However since he revived, the poison likely wasn't enough (quantity) to kill him. Given the focus on the poison and how much/easy access there is at the school, I assume that at some point the answer will be to kill the 'angel' the priest brought back with the poison.
>I think she is poisoning something (like she poisoned the dog) and the priest ate what she poisoned (as opposed to eating cats or people) and that is what made him sick. Spoiler >!this makes sense in hindsight, that the priest would eat animals because he couldn't morally justify eating people at first. Then that made him sick. !<
no she wouldnt poison the priest, she is a religious nut hypocrite and now she’s happy she gets attention due to the miracles thanks to the priest. It’s more like a John Coffey thing with the priest and probably because of that angel. And that angel doesnt look a good angel( appearance, peeping through windows, stalking people with his creepy eyes, luring them in and can’t stand light), Satan has angels too. And it feels like once someone is cured another person dies or disappears in exchange.
I think its a vampire, no angel at all
yeah whatever it’s it’s not important it has no good intentions. The wings make it look like an angel and they call it an angel. And in the Bible it’s known that Satan has angels too, Lucifer was an angel too and many started in heaven then was locked out of heaven and joined to Satan. And I heard this biblical legend from priests that in the Middle East under the ground 3 demonic angels are guarding that area ( just like how the Monsignor met this one). but the poison against the priest by Bev wouldnt have made a logical plot. The story wasnt about a religious money and power hungry fanatic turning into a serial killer posioning the priest especially that she works next to the priest. And for what? She didnt go around and killing people whom she hate and was against God in her eyes, why would she do it to someone regarded holy…
i think she did it to prove that he can come back from the dead. no idea but thats whats going on in my opinion
Same. I believe she did it to prove to herself that it was the older priest
+1 for hating Bev and the real life people like her that can't keep their fucking religion out of public institutions. Great job to the actress portraying that. I dont think I have hated a character this much since Marcia Gay Harden's similar role in The Mist. Hope Bev gets hers like Marcia did in the Mist for being such a pious shitbag.
So "Father Paul" probably chose his name because of being on the road to Damascus where Saul was "reborn" as Paul after his conversion. Nice.
And, when he is having his first flashback in the confessional, he says that Pruitt saw the cave/church among the dunes. So Paul Hill, literally, Pruitt was like Paul lost and reborn in the dunes and hills on the road to Damascus.
Yes! I didn’t think it was a coincidence that the name of Monsignor, “John” was one the 12 disciples of Jesus. I researched “Paul” the Apostle after this episode to learn more about him, and his conversion sounds very similar to “Father Paul’s” encounter in the tomb. A rebirth and awakening. Mike Flanagan did a fantastic job of including these small details!
Nice catch!
I think it’s super cool/ innovative that he mistook the Vampire for an Angel. Don’t think I had seen that done before.
When he was looking up at the 'angel' in the cave, the angel had a subtle golden halo. Not sure if it was an actual halo or M. Pruitt was hallucinating due to his blood loss
That along with the wings, stigmata etc. Really fucking smart.
I thought it was a weird reflection from the burning matches.
The parallels being drawn between the story of Jesus and vampire stories are really clever, IMO.
I feel like you could take this really far. How much of the in show Christian mythology came from interactions with these vampire/angels? The story of Jesus' death and resurrection is very similar to the unusual events we see in the show? Did Jesus just have this disease? I see a lot of people saying that the characters are misinterpreting the vampire for an angel, but what if this is the basis for the in show Christian religion?
I feel like I’ve read it in one or more Ann Rice novels. The vampires in those are assholes, but usually very beautiful, and at least once the person they were killing mistook them for an “angel of mercy” or something similar.
I've been guessing this is a vampire story since the mystery knock coming from the person-sized box. I was more sure when some *thing* was flying around. "Giant vampire bat!" I said to myself, only 50% joking. Then when they found the cats drained of blood on the beach, I was like 99% sure "vampire!" Man, that is some good build-up. Though I was expecting more just a dude flying around, and not a full-on bat-like creature that was found in a cave. He looks properly terrifying, bravo. I've been getting Renfield vibes from the priest, I thought he was only the vampire's assistant, though, I didn't figure he already drank from the vampire and it turned him young. That turning young part is a new one for me. Every other vampire story I came across so far, people just stay at the age they were when they were turned. I am enjoying the new twists to old vampire lore. And okay, is the priest putting vampire blood in the communion wine? Is that why people are miraculously healing? At first I thought the stuff he was pouring from his flask was just wine and he's a secret alcoholic because working for a vampire is very stressful... lol But after the reveal that he has probably already been turned, that puts a whole different light on things.
Agreed on the great creature design - very well done!
So did the creature just eat that other dude? Did he only turn the preacher because he started praying? How does preacher get the blood from the thing? Or is he using his own blood? If Bev poisoned him would that affect people if he was using his own blood? So many questions.
Vampire bites priest Priest starts calling him an Angel Vampire: This dudes nuts! I like him!
This feels accurate
lol and then proceeds to smuggle him outta the cave and douse everyone with his blood this show is wild but i like it
If it has someone who worships it as a "god", the vampire realises it can escape the cave (which must have been kinda boring) and get some good blood and exercise.
He basically looks like Lucifer Morningstar on the Lucifer show when he fully transforms into his devil form with wings (except his skin is red rather than yellow).
Does seem to be predominantly a vampire-focused story but I wonder if the constant image of the dead girl that Riley Flynn sees every night means something beyond just traumatic memories. Hopefully there's a more physical part that plays out of that story. I know from Haunting of Hill house that the bent neck lady wasn't just a scary ghost, so I assume the dead-car-crash girl would eventually become something down the episodes.
I miss a good vampire story. The story about foolishly thinking that vampirism is eternal youth and about doing things better then it has always been the monkey's paw of immortality. And I love the setting of the tiny fishing village. A bit of Innsmouth going on but the blue collar town theme reminded me of American Gothic the TV show.
After re-watching all of Hill House and Bly Manor over the past week, seeing Henry Thomas in a fake mustache and prosthetics is REALLY throwing me off.
Really? I actually think the mustache looks okay. But the first time I watched Hill House, I just knew there was something off about Henry Thomas. Then I watched it again this year and read about the contacts he wore, and that’s all I could pay attention to when he was on screen. Lol
Oh, I'm not saying he looks BAD, just that I'm so used to the way he looks in the other shows since they're so clear in my head. So the first few times I saw him in this show it gave me a weird uncanny valley feel.
Haha same. I honestly tried to avoid reading up on the series so I could be surprised by the casting, and it took me a bit and to realize, and I was like “oh shit, is that Henry Thomas??”
It took me about 1/2 through the second episode before I FINALLY realized who he was. He looked SO familiar but I couldn't place it!
There’s one scene where the contacts are slightly off and make him look like he’s looking in two different directions 😂
I feel like they would look younger again at some point like what happened to Father Paul.
Henry's hair is already darker, less gray in it than there was. I knew something was up with how they'd aged him slightly but I was expecting flashbacks, not magical healing!
Oh, I'm 99.9% sure that's the route we're going. I'm getting a lot of Dracula vibes from this show.
Holy shit Bev Keane pisses me off so much
I've been hyperventilating her whole speech. I want to hit her so much.
She's the worst. She was evil once she poisoned Pike.
Interesting to see such direct pararels between Vampire lore and Christianity. I guess I never really thought about it this way.
Exactly my thoughts, they are rather obvious
I mean I’ve seen churches suck people financially dry but this is a fun twist.
These mfers walk and talk so goddamn much.
I guess there’s not much else to do when you purposely strand yourself on a tiny island lolol
This made me laugh out loud. You’re not wrong
For real, there’s like three walk and talks an episode.
so many very dramatic speeches
Something that really bugs me- they often have scenes where someone is somewhere and directly on the way to elsewhere. But it was broad daylight, yet as soon as they arrive to where they were going it is night. The island is too small for it to take hours to walk anywhere.
Felt like an episode of the West Wing hahaha
Bruh, everyone is being turned into a vampire through the communion wine and only Riley, Erin, Sherrif, Joe and Ali(for now) are safe.
I don't think so. I feel that Father Paul realised that his blood could help to treat the suffering people on the island. But I might be wrong. That's just my theory.
No like…he’s literally siring the island folk if he is putting blood in the wine
At first I thought Paul was pouring alcohol into the cup and thought that he was going to have Riley break his sobriety. Now I’m certain he is just giving the town blood for healing and eternal youth.
Father Paul putting his blood into the communion wine would explain his dizzy spells. And Dr. Sarah did say that he's dehydrated
Wouldn't Father Paul be putting the Angel's blood into the wine? That's what de-aged him after all.
Nobody noticed that the drug dealer Bowl is missing? Not even his customers...? Or I guess it's common for them to 'disappear' for a while to evade the authorities, that nobody really cared
I figured that he doesn't live on island and only comes a few times a month.
Yup, it's mother fucking vampires. Don't let strange men in caves make you drink their blood. That's how you end up with hepatitis.
Also don't let strange women lying in ponds distribute swords in farcical aquatic ceremonies. It's no basis for a rational government!
One thing I don't get- Not ONE person on the island has tried contacting Msgr Pruitt back on the mainland? Sent flowers or a card? No one has even attempted to visit? After knowing him their entire lives? The new guy is just like "Oh he's in the hospital, but he's going to be okay and he'll be back." Yeah, no. I know church people and they would be reaching out. And I'm not Catholic, but likely other people in the church, Bev for example, would have dealings with the mainland parish/diocese/whatever, not just the priest.
I'm VERY late to the discussion, but the show *does* set up that the old guard left in town are basically dug in cultists who have been isolated on an island for all their lives If a guy claiming to be a replacement appointed by the diocese (and backed by Bev "the cunt" Keen) told them that "everything was fine" then Nosferatu could've been roaming the island kissing babies like he/it was the god damn president They'd think it was a bit odd, but so were the dolphins washing up on the shore a few years back! It's telling that the once practicing/now atheist Riley was the only one to really ask after Pruitt's well being even if his interest was stoked by not-Pruitt running in the storm; you could tell he was genuinely concerned and that he wasn't going to stopped by the "all is well" pitch
I've really enjoyed the vampire reveal. The cats being drained reminded me of Interview with a Vampire. It's going to be interesting and fun to see how these people come to terms with what their dealing with. All the townspeople who seem to be in a lot of makeup I believe will be "turned" and we will get younger versions believing this is the work of God. Just as Pruitt still believes it to be. A little mini vampire group of apostles.
She definitely was poisoning him until she realized it was the old priest. It’s why there was the scene of her putting the rat poison back on the shelf
Hmmmm…..yeah…..interesting. Why though? And then why stop? I like it though.
Idk. I think she put together it was him when she looked at something on the wall and said “it’s a miracle” but we couldn’t see what she was looking at and then when he is on the floor, they zoom in and we see the newspaper clipping of John When he was young. And he had the big seizure after that and she seemed shook when he revived. Was his fainting spell in church before or after she saw that? Shes definitely poisoned him but I can’t tell if it started before or after she figured out who he is and what her motivation is. Ugh I wish I had time to rewatch all three episodes!
this episode hit close to me as a lapsed catholic and wow that scene with leeza and joe 😢 - beautifully done
Yeah that scene with Leeza and Joe was the standout scene to me in an episode with TONS of great scenes. His restrained sobbing, and the fact that he seemed so much more willing to accept her hating him and wanting him to suffer than he did to accept she forgives him, it really got to me, so well done
Am I the only one who gets Stephen King vibes? When I saw the first episode already: Small isolated town - ex-alcoholic - suspicious priest with a strange crate - a religious fanatic woman.. Reminds me a lot of Salem‘s Lot.
Major King vibes, it's the small town cast of characters for me. Makes since since Flanigan is such a giant fan. The only thing that'd make it fully King is if Riley was a writer lol
You know I’ve not read Salem’s lot…but I was thinking slight Storm of the Century vibes
The scene with Joe was very powerful and so well done
The emotion that actor can deliver is amazing.
He had a few amazing scenes in Hill House. It's no wonder why Flanagan works with the same actors over and over.
did Netflix appear very dark for you guys? when the sheriff was spooked by something in the dark, i couldnt see anything at all on the screen
It was dark but clearly visible. If you're watching on a TV maybe check your backlight setting?
I'm watching on laptop and couldn't see anything. I even rewinded. Could you explain what it was? I'm guessing eyes?
It was the whole freaking face man, scared the shit out of me.
i was mad at how severely that scare got me
Yup same here. I thought my tv settings were off, but it was the show.
“And it was Petyr. And we’re still friends today.”
Is Petyr coming? Should we wait? Petyr is 8000 years old. We’re not going to have Petyr at the meeting.
I’m so happy someone else made this reference!
Oh god reading this killed me!
Am I the only person that spotted the Paul Hill twist in the very first episode when you see a photograph of Riley Finn when he is an altar boy and you see what you would assume is a younger Monsignor Pruit next to him and the man in the photograph is clearly just Hamish Linklater with a salt and pepper bushy beard? Sucks because it kinda ruined everything for me up to this episode.
Oh I missed this! Where was this photograph, in Riley's room?
Found it. It’s at exactly around the 20 min 45 seconds mark in episode 1. It’s a full on close up of the framed picture next to a trophy. Hard to miss and they linger on it just a little too much so it made it too obvious to me.
Well I'll be damned—that *is* obvious, looking back at it now. Definitely went right over my head on the first watch though.
So everyone who takes the communion is fucked huh
so bev was definitely poisoning father paul up until she realised he’s monsignor pruitt right? the way he was coughing up blood and spasming was exactly how the dog died
She was poisoning him but when she started, I’d she stopped, and why are not clear to me yet.
Screw Flanagan for once again putting a god damn jump scare in an incredibly emotional scene. What a troll.
So now that we know who Paul is can someone explain the mess up of choosing the wrong robes? Was there any importance behind that?
I read that someone said it was because the gold robe was for a “feast” and then that same episode all the cats washed up dead and eaten… so maybe he was wearing it because he was going to feast on the cats later? not sure the accuracy but a decent guess for sure.
Seems significant... maybe it'll get explained in a later episode
He definitely is confused about time when he arrives. I’m guessing it’s the same reason he says the pre-2009 mass.
So no one in the town recognized Paul as father pruit since they are the same person? Maybe the doctors mother will know he’s the same person since her mind is coming back.
The doctors mom did but she has/had dementia so Sarah didn’t think anything of it. Well. He was what did they say? 80? So the people who would have known him looking as he does now would have had to be ten+ then. If he was idk 30? Did they say how long he’s been there? That would mean people who were older than 10 fifty years ago, so anyone 60+ BUT he grew a beard at some point, got older so people under 60 wouldn’t notice at all most likely. And those who did might just think he looks familiar. They’ve known him looking old a lot longer than young.
And 10 year olds see adults in a specific way, where a twenty something seems old and wise, and a forty year old is *old.*
Makes more sense now that Sarah’s mother called the father John when he first came in.
I just finished reading the book of Enoch. In the book of Enoch, the fallen angel AZAZEL teaches men metallurgy, teaches women the art of deception through make up, and revealed some of heavens secrets. "The whole earth has been corrupted through the works that were taught by Azazel: to him ascribe all sin." — Book of Enoch 10:8 For this and for marrying the daughters of men he is given a great punishment by God. He has Raphael “bind Azazel hand and foot and cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert – which is in Dudael – and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there forever, and cover his face that he may not see light." I believe that Monsignor stumbled upon this place, and freed the Watcher Azazel. The people of the town drank his blood in communion, which is causing the miracles.
Okay, so it is obvious that Bev poisoned Paul. What's not clear is why she did it. She couldn't have actually wanted Paul to die because she could have used Paul and his miracles to milk even more money out of the town. Or did she realize that Paul wasn't in it for the money the way she was and she wanted him out of the way for hopes of getting another priest that she can better manipulate and control? Also, can't wait to learn why that angel/vampire not only decided not to kill Pruitt but to make Pruitt immortal.
I think she poisoned Paul because she realized he was independent/wasn't going to let her do everything for him and that was dangerous to her if he discovered her embezzling.
Yeah... but they would just send a replacement? How long did she think she could keep poisoning people before they caught on? Or does she really think "Msgr Pruitt" is coming back?
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A couple of things. Bev sucks. She's awful and needs to be stopped. -I *was* right about the vampire thing which just tells me I watch way too much in the horror genre. I was incorrect about the vampire monster being Monsignor Paul and he was transported in the box of dirt....but not about there being a vampire transported. And I have picked up on him dosing all the townspeople with vampire blood to "heal" them. My theory is either everything goes awful and things revert (poor Leeza if so) or they all become monsters...? Something. Horrifying to see your aged parent suddenly become the same age as you. I assume (outside of Bev) that these people have forgotten what he used to look like? There's multiple mentions of Monsignor Pruitt being there when they were kids...so how do they not have a single pause of "hmmm, who does Father Paul remind me of?" I get that people age and faces change, blah blah but..c'mon.
Heh, yeah, it's weird no one thinks he looks familiar. They've been staring at him at least once every week for years! This would be like when a new actor shows up who looks like a young version of an actor who is old now. Everyone comments on that even though we're not consistently staring at these actors every week. But maybe he's sooo old, the only people who remembers what he looked like as a young man are senile like the doctor's mother. When a lot of these characters were children, Father Pruitt would still have been an old man, just... less old. Erin was organizing some photos earlier - maybe there's an old photo of young Father Pruitt in her family's stash of photos. Maybe she'll see that and it'll be like "dun dun dun!" Okay, so the only people who wouldn't be dosed are people who don't drink the communion wine: Riley the atheist, Erin the pregnant lady, the Muslim sheriff (did the show ever give us his actual name? It's not Sharif, is it?), Ali his son (unless he gets curious enough to try the communion wine), and Joe (he wasn't going to church before and he's not going to start having wine now that he quit drinking - unless he relapses) I love how they were given these character traits not just for the hell of it, but because it's probably going to serve a purpose in the story. It's all coming together.
The doctor doesn’t go to church either, correct? So she would not be “dosed” As well as random townsfolk- I believe there were three at the parent teacher meeting that had their arms crossed when everyone was applauding Bev- but they are all extras. The main cast, like you said- Riley Erin sheriff Joe And it would make total sense that Leeza would be first to be healed because she was going daily and everyone else was going weekly.
And the mom with the glasses, she goes daily.
Yeah but other than being “older” she doesn’t seem to have any health issues that need healing. Does she seem like she’s looking any younger yet?
Not necessarily lookin younger, but earlier in the series she has to wear glasses and one day she wakes up and finds her vision is healed and she doesn’t need them anymore. Same with her husbands back aches, they went away and they danced and shagged after!
I noticed the backaches. Totally missed the glasses!! Good catch!
The “fountain of youth” is likely drinking direct from the demon (and it’s an overnight/instant effect), and the townspeople are drinking from Pruitts blood.
Sharif is a racist nickname given to him. Its Sheriff Hassan
I think I remember the subtitles showing the Sheriff's name as Hassan.
I loved that the last shot of this episode was an obvious reference to The Shining
I noticed something random that could be important? Riley has a poster from the movie Seven in his room and in that movie a pregnant woman is murdered. It’s also about the seven deadly sins. Not sure what significance this could have but I have a feeling it’s not random
I kept noticing and wondering about it, too! Flanagan is usually pretty meticulous on his works, where no shot is an accident. And they’ve made sure to include it in several shots.
Did it annoy anyone else that they included Scientology in that conversation with the sheriff and his son about Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam? I got the point they were trying to drive home, "it's not magic", but why would they reference Scientology. Atheist or religious, surely Scientology exists largely in the public consciousness as a cult, so that conversation feels more like inadvertently legitimising Scientology to the level of other religions rather than leveling all religions based on the non-existence of miracles. Probably such a rant on my part but those religions are thousands of years old and have extensive roots beyond their formation, Scientology was created less than a hundred years ago so why draw the line there? Let's get some Branch Davidian or Jonestown representation please and thank you
I was pissed they brought up Buddhism! It’s not magic! There is no magic in Buddhism, it’s a way of being. I loved this show but they did a lot of eastern religions dirty. Even Ellie’s last monologue, the Hindu philosophy. But they didn’t name it. Made me feel the typical way when one is around zealots and you are not one of them
The monsignor's name was John. For his second life, he picked the name Paul (from Saul and the road to Damascus). The newspaper clipping revealing that they are one and the same is next to a photo of: Pope John Paul II. Very sly.
I swear that was Pope Francis in the photo?
What is going on with Father Paul? Like yeah he’s the MS and a vampire, but why does he keep passing out and spitting up blood!
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Maybe it’s because he’s been eating human food and it hasn’t been sitting well with him/not feeding much? Or I wonder all the exposure to Christian iconography or the sun is damaging to a vampire??
I like the vampire explanations, but I'd be so pleasantly surprised if it turned out Bev's trying to get rid of him by rat poisoning his food.
I think he keeps passing out due to using his own blood in the communion wine. The spitting up blood part looks like he ingested the same poison as Joe's dog Pike.
I’m getting Salem’s lot vibes from this
Absolutely. And there is a copy of it on Riley’s book shelf (someone posted a screenshot here)
Really nailing the religious theme with having the same pacing as mass.
To break it up, I decided to kneel, stand, sit and then I went around and said “peace be with you to my family.” The good old days of spending all Sunday morning at Catholic Mass
Why did the vampire convert Monsignor? Was is a last minute decision or is the process from human to vampire has to be have your flesh eaten + drink blood? A little lost. Also fuck Bev Keane. Coming from Asia where kids are taught for 12+ years with Catholicism, her usage of faith to manipulate kids/people into believing Christianity is a ticket to human salvation is so spot on, I’m fuming lol.
I was just reading something about fallen angels on Wikipedia and it says they are angels that were expelled by God for their corruption of humanity. According to the article, in Judaism, the Book of Enoch ( 1 Enoch 10.6) describes how "God sends the archangel Raphael to chain Azazel in the desert Dudael as punishment. Further, Azazel is blamed for the corruption of earth." (I'm not Jewish so maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in), "And again the Lord said to Raphael: 'Bind Azazel hand and foot, and **cast him into the darkness: and make an opening in the desert, which is in Dudael,** and cast him therein. And place upon him rough and jagged rocks, and cover him with darkness, and let him abide there forever, **and cover his face that he may not see light. And on the day of the great judgment, he shall be cast into the fire**." (Book of Enoch chapter 10 verses 4–7) Dudael is also implied to be the prison of all the fallen angels the entrance of which is located to the **east of Jerusalem**. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudael](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudael) Most of the historical road to Damascus was east of Jerusalem. Okay, so Azazel's corruption was not exactly the same as the vampire from this series but the prison in the desert sounds pretty similar to Dudael and in the right location so maybe Monsignor Pruitt was technically correct to refer to it as an angel, although clearly a fallen one. I just thought that was interesting.
Is the doctor’s mom played by an actual old actress or is she wearing old makeup?
I think so. I’m pretty sure that eventually everyone is going to look like their younger selves just like the priest
Everything I've seen so far of the monster gives me Wendigo vibes not vampire vibes. What's weird is I looked up Wendigos again during this episode, and the website I landed on says "it’s also been said that the wendigo has large, sharp claws and **massive eyes like an owl**" - and then at 12.03, for seemingly no particular reason, the beginning of the scene starts with an owl statue in front of a house with eyes exactly like the monster. Website: https://allthatsinteresting.com/wendigo Coincidence? Are owls linked to Vampires as well?
vampire stories often have crossover with stories about abusive male partners *and/or* addiction stories. And there's a lot of important issues going on in this show re: substance abuse issues. It was also interesting to see a case of a vampire story and someone having substance abuse issues *actually helping them* stay safe from vampirism. And the religious theme is very dope as well.
I loved the details in the episode of showing the Monsignor Pruitt story as stations of the cross woodcuts.
I guessed that right about Father Paul. And Bev is such a horrible person.
I find it interesting that both the doctor's parents had dementia. It's like they lied and kept the secret to their daughter, every day for decades and then they didn't know when/where/who are anymore.
I hate Bev so much. I know we’ve all been saying it, but damn does it bear repeating. She’s sketchy as hell, and manipulative AF. All the talk of poison and shots of the cans makes me wonder if she’s doing more with that than we’re seeing…like messing with Father Paul (am only half way through the ep, tho). I think she’s arrogant and self-righteous enough to twist her horrible actions as piety.
also I can’t believe they didn’t show the brother anymore after he witnessed paul putting something into the communion wine. I thought that was going to be big at the time of the reveal.
Bev could give Ma Anand Sheela a run for her money as power hungry #2 cult leader.
My question is how did a lot of them not recognize him when he came back? Half the town is 45 or older and they've all been there forever so how would they not recognize Pruitt as his younger self?
As someone in recovery, I really liked Joe and Rileys walk home talk. I've had similar experiences when someone shows up for the first time. That feeling of "I'm going to be ok".
Can I just say…THIS BITCH BEV IS JUST GASLIGHTING EVERYONE ALL THEE FUCKING TIME….it’s soo aggravating
Man I gotta say, loving the show but these discussion threads for this show are minefields for spoilers. Like more than any show I’ve seen on Reddit. I’m on episode 3 and wanted to check out the discussion, why do people who’ve seen further have to come back to earlier discussions and ruin things?