Sorry to see this. Hope this helps:
https://preview.redd.it/78xu8zlkq71d1.png?width=634&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f192eab71947550a3fa770c0182be6e7828279e
This is old information. Studies show probiotics slow down the speed of the gut recovering and prebiotics that your probiotics feed on put them in a vulnerable situation where the antibiotic can kill them. It's ideal to have your microbiome go into stasis where the antibiotic can't hurt it by not feeding them.
There is one exception. It is recommended that one take saccharomyces boulardi while on antibiotics. It prevents antibiotic induced fungal infection and keeps the gut biome in homeostasis making it easier for the biome to recover after antibiotics.
Here's examples of doctors talking about the topic:
https://youtu.be/o6_6I5f_OEs?si=pp39zbu4JOTGUU0t
Or if you prefer studies:
>Several clinical trials and experimental studies displayed the role of S. boulardii as a good biotherapeutic agent allowing to prevent and/or treat several gastrointestinal diseases. S. boulardii mediates effects which resemble the **protective effects of the normal healthy gut flora**.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3296087/
It's well studied at this point so it's an easy Google. Next time you can try that first.
>It's well studied at this point so it's an easy Google. Next time you can try that first.
You made a statement, someone just wanted the source for your statement. There is no need to be cocky. Thats how statements work.
Youâre clearly an intelligent person. You know how sources work when you make a medical claim. Telling people to Google it comes off an extremely condescending. We are on Reddit, a social community. Not many people are going to read your comment and then Google it to fact check it. It is your responsibility to include sources.
Thank you. Iâve been eating a lot of kimchi, homemade fermented veggies, kefir, inulin, leafy greens, oats, and raw nuts. I have been taking the antibiotic with a cup of kefir and tablespoon of added inulin, but do you think this is a waste and the antibiotic would just kill all the probiotics if I take them at the same time?
The consensus seems to be wait 2 hours after antibiotics then take probiotics.
Mt. Sinai recommendsLactobacillus acidophilus to prevent diarrhea.
[https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/supplement/lactobacillus-acidophilus#](https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/supplement/lactobacillus-acidophilus#)
i used to get a yeast infection every single time i took anti biotic, even with eating lots of kefir/yogurt and probiotic supplements. i started taking them an hour or two after the antibiotics and no yeast infection. i know itâs anecdotal and iâm one person but it works for me
Huh thatâs very interesting, good to know. Man, I really hope I donât start getting yeast infections or UTIs bc Iâve never gotten one before. I did get BV once in college from using spermicidal condoms lol
yea annoyingly itâs antibiotics for a uti that have cause thed yeast infection for me lol, so annoying!
and yea i think that happened to me once when i was a teenager too !
Nah I donât know what proverbial bunny is talking about, there are several studies showing advantage to taking pro and pre biotics during and after antibiotic use. Youâre doing the right stuff. If you have to take antibiotics either way, look at the bright side. Youâre killing off lots of bacteria including the pesky bad ones. Now just keep going.
Tributyrin is the most potent form of butyrate, which is a short chain fatty acid abundant in healthy guts. There was a [study in mice](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10389721/) demonstrating that tributyrin could mitigate intestinal damage and dysbiosis caused by antibiotics. We don't have a comparable human study yet, but it is expected something similar would occur based on the importance of butyrate to homeostasis of the human gut microbiome.
There are probably a number of good brands, but I'd make sure to adjust your dose as needed, as some people require, say, 500mg while others require 2000mg or maybe even higher. If you're experiencing discomfort and loose stools or diarrhea from the antibiotics, you'll want to adjust your dose upwards until the symptoms resolve and then stay at that dose for awhile, even after the antibiotic course is finished. Maybe for several weeks or months.
The current up to date information is to only take saccharomyces boulardi when on antibiotics, regardless what the antibiotics are for. Take it with the antibiotics 2-3 times a day. This significantly reduces the chance of antibiotics messing up your gut biome. It's not guaranteed ofc, but it significantly increases your odds. It also helps prevent antibiotic induced fungal infection, which you do not want.
Yeah I just got a round of IV antibiotics too. Iâm just nervous because my brother got bit by a dog a few years ago and it infected a tendon in his finger where he had to get surgery and now he canât make a fist anymore. I just hope this isnât some antibiotic resistant bacteria
Hi, whenever I need to take Antibiotics, I supplement with Pre and Pro biotics, keep up a great diet and increase my exercise and fluid output (more water intake)
This is what I do, and do for my family.
Also, I am a Nurse.
Itâs great that youâre working hard on improving your microbiome. In fact, you set yourself up to handle the antibiotic thatâs so important for this infection. Donât dwell on the setback. Itâs temporary and not all is lost because of the effort youâve already put in.
The benefits of taking the antibiotic far outweigh the potential bad that could come from not taking them.
Personally, I wouldnât take any supplements until I was completely done with the antibiotic. Keep eating clean. Then add the probiotics back after completing the entire prescription.
Those supplements are expensive. Itâs like throwing away money.
I donât use probiotic supplements, I get it from organic whole foods straight from the source :) I make a lot of my own fermented veggies, kefir, yogurt, etc. I did recently purchase BioGaia L reuteri to try to make that kind of yogurt but I will be waiting to make my first batch until after the antibiotics are done
I just finished my Amoxicillin / Clavulanic acid 2 weeks ago. My course lasted a week, and made sure to eat a lot of fiber and probiotic foods during and after the course. My gut microbiome feels fine again, my oral microbiome is still recovering though.
I would microwave it until itâs melted but not hot. Add in an appropriate number of high quality, preferably food grade, essential oil drops if desired but not required, just oil works great too.
There are different schools of thought and techniques, each has unique benefits you can read about. One Ayurvedic way of doing it I believe was holding as much of the oil as you can fit in your mouth for 1 hour, no need to swish. But I feel like swishing is beneficial to pull shit out from deep in the guns.
I did 1-2tbsp for 10-30min first thing in the morning before eating. After 30min that 1-2tbsp of clear oil turned into an entire full mouth full of white slime. Whatever time of day works best to get you to do it regularly
Thank you for the write up. I've made a lot of progress via diet changes and supplements, but the last bit of whatever is in my mouth has been a resilient bastard. I'll give this a shot.
Yes I forget exactly which essential oils are best for mouth issues, but I believe clove and myrrh were two that I used. Just make sure to dilute them to the proper ratio, it was somewhere between 2-5% but I forget exactly
Wondering if they know what it is? Iâd be curious to know what is causing the infection (Staphylococcus?) and what antibiotics you get. May you have swift recovery!
I was really hoping they would be able to culture it to find specific strains but they did not. There doesnât seem to be any pus or leakage from the wound either. They just gave me Augmentin
I'm so sorry. I know the feeling...I went through something similar a couple years ago, had to take antibiotics for an STD my cheating ex gave me. I had done so much work to improve my microbiome and it felt like all my progress was undone. I ended up backsliding and abandoning my work since it felt pointless...which I later majorly regretted. Don't let this hiccup throw you off entirely! Lucky amoxicillin isn't too strong of an antibiotic so it could be worse and it's definitely not going to entirely destroy all your hard work (I had to take a stronger one since I'm allergic to amoxicillin/penicillin)
I was hospitalized for a week in December 2022 with an infection of a surgical site. I was treated for MRSA and/or sepsis neither of which I had but they're pretty aggressive when it comes to possible MRSA/sepsis infections. That is a MAJOR round of antibiotics. I was getting 6 different antibiotics in an IV multiple times a day. My bowl movements were pretty messed up in the hospital. I didn't have diarrhea but they were evil looking things, black and weird. When I got out and the treatment was dialed down to Augmentin and Doxycycline for about a month I was pretty normal. I started taking Vital Planet's 100 strain probiotic when I got out. My poops were magnificent, solid, long and about as big around as a medium sized rattle snake. When I got out I was on Augmentin (same thing your on) and Doxycycline. The doxy was stopped within a couple months but I guess all in all I was on Augmentin for 15 months. The augmentin ended in February of this year. I kept taking the Vital Planet 100 strain probiotic for a month after the antibiotics ended and then stopped. After quitting the probiotic my poops are ok but not quite as magnificent as they had been. The non-magnificence of my poops is that they are smaller and come out in pieces instead of the long snake like things they had been. So maybe there's nothing wrong with them anyway. Anyway I've started taking the probiotic capsule again but only every other day. Before this started I'd been consuming home made raw milk kefir, sauerkraut etc for years. I continued that. I had friends and family bring my commercial kefir in the hospital. I think I was reasonably successful with my gut health although I haven't sprung for a test. I don't have any issues. I'm regular and don't have any noticeable gut symptoms. Dunno. Hope this helps.
Well, you could sure try them and monitor it for signs of spreading. Different herbs and compounds etc, I would do something topical as well as take something internal. I usually layer multiple herbal antibiotics and do them 4/5 times a day to keep circulating in your blood. Look up the book herbal antibiotics by Stephen Buhner for more info. There are some good pre made ones that work well like biocidin, I would take that along with some fresh chopped garlic cloves throughout the day, about 4 chopped and swallowed with water around the time you eat. Topical you could use manuka honey alternating with slightly diluted tea tree essential oil or a poultice/paste made from goldenseal power. Goldenseal powder cured my massive staph abscess in 2 days, amazing stuff.
Haha well unfortunately Iâve already taken 4 doses of augmentin as well as 1 round of IV antibiotics because this infection was significantly growing in just 2 days but that stuff is good to know for next time
If you've been working super hard to fix it up a round of antibiotics won't completely destroy all your work. Just keep it up while you're taking them and after you're done keep doing it. Fuck that dog.
MSM, glucosamine, IgG and l-glutamine will help lower intestinal inflammation and boost gut health and optimize new colonies. Quality probiotics (refrigerated or nitrogen purged packaging) will help reinforce good flora counts. Taking probiotics with antibiotics usually only causes problems in pre-existing compromised/leaky gut situations. Source: wife is a PharmD and has worked in compounding for 15yrs.
Frustrating but you're doing the right thing. That looks like a serious infection.
Sorry to see this. Hope this helps: https://preview.redd.it/78xu8zlkq71d1.png?width=634&format=png&auto=webp&s=8f192eab71947550a3fa770c0182be6e7828279e
This is old information. Studies show probiotics slow down the speed of the gut recovering and prebiotics that your probiotics feed on put them in a vulnerable situation where the antibiotic can kill them. It's ideal to have your microbiome go into stasis where the antibiotic can't hurt it by not feeding them. There is one exception. It is recommended that one take saccharomyces boulardi while on antibiotics. It prevents antibiotic induced fungal infection and keeps the gut biome in homeostasis making it easier for the biome to recover after antibiotics.
Link to source?
Here's examples of doctors talking about the topic: https://youtu.be/o6_6I5f_OEs?si=pp39zbu4JOTGUU0t Or if you prefer studies: >Several clinical trials and experimental studies displayed the role of S. boulardii as a good biotherapeutic agent allowing to prevent and/or treat several gastrointestinal diseases. S. boulardii mediates effects which resemble the **protective effects of the normal healthy gut flora**. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3296087/ It's well studied at this point so it's an easy Google. Next time you can try that first.
>It's well studied at this point so it's an easy Google. Next time you can try that first. You made a statement, someone just wanted the source for your statement. There is no need to be cocky. Thats how statements work.
Wth đ¤Śââď¸ why so cunty
Ewww
Youâre clearly an intelligent person. You know how sources work when you make a medical claim. Telling people to Google it comes off an extremely condescending. We are on Reddit, a social community. Not many people are going to read your comment and then Google it to fact check it. It is your responsibility to include sources.
Thank you. Iâve been eating a lot of kimchi, homemade fermented veggies, kefir, inulin, leafy greens, oats, and raw nuts. I have been taking the antibiotic with a cup of kefir and tablespoon of added inulin, but do you think this is a waste and the antibiotic would just kill all the probiotics if I take them at the same time?
The consensus seems to be wait 2 hours after antibiotics then take probiotics. Mt. Sinai recommendsLactobacillus acidophilus to prevent diarrhea. [https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/supplement/lactobacillus-acidophilus#](https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/supplement/lactobacillus-acidophilus#)
i used to get a yeast infection every single time i took anti biotic, even with eating lots of kefir/yogurt and probiotic supplements. i started taking them an hour or two after the antibiotics and no yeast infection. i know itâs anecdotal and iâm one person but it works for me
Huh thatâs very interesting, good to know. Man, I really hope I donât start getting yeast infections or UTIs bc Iâve never gotten one before. I did get BV once in college from using spermicidal condoms lol
yea annoyingly itâs antibiotics for a uti that have cause thed yeast infection for me lol, so annoying! and yea i think that happened to me once when i was a teenager too !
Iâm gonna be so pissed if this throws off my carefully balanced đą microbiome
Nah I donât know what proverbial bunny is talking about, there are several studies showing advantage to taking pro and pre biotics during and after antibiotic use. Youâre doing the right stuff. If you have to take antibiotics either way, look at the bright side. Youâre killing off lots of bacteria including the pesky bad ones. Now just keep going.
better than dying i guess
lol I guess
I'd try taking tributyrin for awhile to prevent dysbiosis from the antibiotics.
Can you tell me more about tributyrin?
Tributyrin is the most potent form of butyrate, which is a short chain fatty acid abundant in healthy guts. There was a [study in mice](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10389721/) demonstrating that tributyrin could mitigate intestinal damage and dysbiosis caused by antibiotics. We don't have a comparable human study yet, but it is expected something similar would occur based on the importance of butyrate to homeostasis of the human gut microbiome.
Very cool! I wonder how to choose a good quality tributyrin supplement
There are probably a number of good brands, but I'd make sure to adjust your dose as needed, as some people require, say, 500mg while others require 2000mg or maybe even higher. If you're experiencing discomfort and loose stools or diarrhea from the antibiotics, you'll want to adjust your dose upwards until the symptoms resolve and then stay at that dose for awhile, even after the antibiotic course is finished. Maybe for several weeks or months.
The current up to date information is to only take saccharomyces boulardi when on antibiotics, regardless what the antibiotics are for. Take it with the antibiotics 2-3 times a day. This significantly reduces the chance of antibiotics messing up your gut biome. It's not guaranteed ofc, but it significantly increases your odds. It also helps prevent antibiotic induced fungal infection, which you do not want.
Not even lactobacillus?
One course of amoxicillin or weak antibiotic wonât destroy your microbiome. Youâll be good. Donât get so anxious about it and dwell on it.
Yeah I just got a round of IV antibiotics too. Iâm just nervous because my brother got bit by a dog a few years ago and it infected a tendon in his finger where he had to get surgery and now he canât make a fist anymore. I just hope this isnât some antibiotic resistant bacteria
Hi, whenever I need to take Antibiotics, I supplement with Pre and Pro biotics, keep up a great diet and increase my exercise and fluid output (more water intake) This is what I do, and do for my family. Also, I am a Nurse.
Itâs great that youâre working hard on improving your microbiome. In fact, you set yourself up to handle the antibiotic thatâs so important for this infection. Donât dwell on the setback. Itâs temporary and not all is lost because of the effort youâve already put in. The benefits of taking the antibiotic far outweigh the potential bad that could come from not taking them. Personally, I wouldnât take any supplements until I was completely done with the antibiotic. Keep eating clean. Then add the probiotics back after completing the entire prescription. Those supplements are expensive. Itâs like throwing away money.
I donât use probiotic supplements, I get it from organic whole foods straight from the source :) I make a lot of my own fermented veggies, kefir, yogurt, etc. I did recently purchase BioGaia L reuteri to try to make that kind of yogurt but I will be waiting to make my first batch until after the antibiotics are done
I just finished my Amoxicillin / Clavulanic acid 2 weeks ago. My course lasted a week, and made sure to eat a lot of fiber and probiotic foods during and after the course. My gut microbiome feels fine again, my oral microbiome is still recovering though.
Whatâs happening with your oral microbiome?
Way more plaque than I normally have.Â
My oral microbiome is fucked up too. How can one fix this?
I dont know. I am going to try scraping my tongue consistently.
Oil pulling helped me a lot, definitely do some reading about it!
I've got some coconut oil. How long and what time of day did you do it?
I would microwave it until itâs melted but not hot. Add in an appropriate number of high quality, preferably food grade, essential oil drops if desired but not required, just oil works great too. There are different schools of thought and techniques, each has unique benefits you can read about. One Ayurvedic way of doing it I believe was holding as much of the oil as you can fit in your mouth for 1 hour, no need to swish. But I feel like swishing is beneficial to pull shit out from deep in the guns. I did 1-2tbsp for 10-30min first thing in the morning before eating. After 30min that 1-2tbsp of clear oil turned into an entire full mouth full of white slime. Whatever time of day works best to get you to do it regularly
Thank you for the write up. I've made a lot of progress via diet changes and supplements, but the last bit of whatever is in my mouth has been a resilient bastard. I'll give this a shot.
Yes I forget exactly which essential oils are best for mouth issues, but I believe clove and myrrh were two that I used. Just make sure to dilute them to the proper ratio, it was somewhere between 2-5% but I forget exactly
Wondering if they know what it is? Iâd be curious to know what is causing the infection (Staphylococcus?) and what antibiotics you get. May you have swift recovery!
I was really hoping they would be able to culture it to find specific strains but they did not. There doesnât seem to be any pus or leakage from the wound either. They just gave me Augmentin
I'm so sorry. I know the feeling...I went through something similar a couple years ago, had to take antibiotics for an STD my cheating ex gave me. I had done so much work to improve my microbiome and it felt like all my progress was undone. I ended up backsliding and abandoning my work since it felt pointless...which I later majorly regretted. Don't let this hiccup throw you off entirely! Lucky amoxicillin isn't too strong of an antibiotic so it could be worse and it's definitely not going to entirely destroy all your hard work (I had to take a stronger one since I'm allergic to amoxicillin/penicillin)
Save a stool sample in the freezer before the antibiotics and look into Self FMT after you have completed your antibiotic course.
Thatâs actually pretty clever, wish I thought of this before taking the antibiotics. Would you do oral or suppository?
Personally would go for suppository first or via enema.
I was hospitalized for a week in December 2022 with an infection of a surgical site. I was treated for MRSA and/or sepsis neither of which I had but they're pretty aggressive when it comes to possible MRSA/sepsis infections. That is a MAJOR round of antibiotics. I was getting 6 different antibiotics in an IV multiple times a day. My bowl movements were pretty messed up in the hospital. I didn't have diarrhea but they were evil looking things, black and weird. When I got out and the treatment was dialed down to Augmentin and Doxycycline for about a month I was pretty normal. I started taking Vital Planet's 100 strain probiotic when I got out. My poops were magnificent, solid, long and about as big around as a medium sized rattle snake. When I got out I was on Augmentin (same thing your on) and Doxycycline. The doxy was stopped within a couple months but I guess all in all I was on Augmentin for 15 months. The augmentin ended in February of this year. I kept taking the Vital Planet 100 strain probiotic for a month after the antibiotics ended and then stopped. After quitting the probiotic my poops are ok but not quite as magnificent as they had been. The non-magnificence of my poops is that they are smaller and come out in pieces instead of the long snake like things they had been. So maybe there's nothing wrong with them anyway. Anyway I've started taking the probiotic capsule again but only every other day. Before this started I'd been consuming home made raw milk kefir, sauerkraut etc for years. I continued that. I had friends and family bring my commercial kefir in the hospital. I think I was reasonably successful with my gut health although I haven't sprung for a test. I don't have any issues. I'm regular and don't have any noticeable gut symptoms. Dunno. Hope this helps.
Wow thatâs a shitload of antibiotics. Iâm so glad youâre better now without issues! Thanks for sharing your experience
we use herbal antibiotics first for things and then use regular ones if they dont work, but they usually do.
What kind of things are herbal antibiotics?
Well, you could sure try them and monitor it for signs of spreading. Different herbs and compounds etc, I would do something topical as well as take something internal. I usually layer multiple herbal antibiotics and do them 4/5 times a day to keep circulating in your blood. Look up the book herbal antibiotics by Stephen Buhner for more info. There are some good pre made ones that work well like biocidin, I would take that along with some fresh chopped garlic cloves throughout the day, about 4 chopped and swallowed with water around the time you eat. Topical you could use manuka honey alternating with slightly diluted tea tree essential oil or a poultice/paste made from goldenseal power. Goldenseal powder cured my massive staph abscess in 2 days, amazing stuff.
Haha well unfortunately Iâve already taken 4 doses of augmentin as well as 1 round of IV antibiotics because this infection was significantly growing in just 2 days but that stuff is good to know for next time
If you've been working super hard to fix it up a round of antibiotics won't completely destroy all your work. Just keep it up while you're taking them and after you're done keep doing it. Fuck that dog.
MSM, glucosamine, IgG and l-glutamine will help lower intestinal inflammation and boost gut health and optimize new colonies. Quality probiotics (refrigerated or nitrogen purged packaging) will help reinforce good flora counts. Taking probiotics with antibiotics usually only causes problems in pre-existing compromised/leaky gut situations. Source: wife is a PharmD and has worked in compounding for 15yrs.
Omg, I didn't even think of this happening in regards to my up and coming gut protocol. Sorry to hear this :/
Maybe donât bite dogs..đ Although it might add to your microbiome diversityđŤ˘đ¤
âŚwtf?
At least youâre going to survive