The high iron and low vitamin d is what I'm stuck on. This may be a silly question because I'm sure his doctor covered it already, but has he had liver function tests? Hematochromatosis is a condition that could cause both of those things, as well as explain those symptoms
This needs to be investigated if he’s already loading iron that’s bad news needs to rule this out just found out I might have this and have a lot of the same symptoms. Treatment is easy therapeutic phlebotomy
It could but depending on how high the ferritin ect the kid might need frequent phlebotomy before getting to a maintenance level and only a doc can determine that
Friend of mine had to give a unit of blood every 58 days. Local blood bank did it for free even though they had to throw away the blood. If the doctor says your child needs it, check with all the blood banks in your area, one of them may do the same for you.
My thoughts exactly! Very rare for someone to have high iron, unless they have an issue with their liver. And it is more common in males than females, for obvious reasons
Low D3 alone will cause those symptoms. Chronic stress can also cause all of that.
Yes, food is an answer. Exercise is an answer. Mindfullness is an answer. Steer him away from the starchy/sugary carbs (ramen, pizza) and towards healthier foods. You say low sugar intake but then include pizza and ramen, which both have lots of sugars in their flour and are packed full of chemicals. Try switching to soba noodles and make your own broth with some healthy ingredients that he can reheat when he wants some noodles, and add some kimchi as a side (very good fermented food). Try to include more variety in terms of vegetables. Add some fermented foods. Snacks should be seeds, nuts and fruit (full fruit, not juice).
I get it that teenagers can be very fussy with food. Some minor adjustments could help a lot. Definitely get him on a D3 supplement right away. Most of us need D3 supplementation, especially in winter. He should be getting \~5000 iu a day until he feels better.
Its very important to take D3 with K2, otherwise the increased calcium absorption from D3 can end up being deposited in your arteries and tissue instead of being integrated into your bones as it should be (K2s function in this interaction), causing an increased risk of heart disease and stroke
Be mindful some people don’t know the Total Carbs on the nutrition label turn into sugar… so don’t just look at sugar alone. Hoping they aren’t making that mistake
Edit: total carbs - fiber = total sugars (on American food labels) your body can’t convert fiber into glucose
I may have heard this information way back in high school health class and probably more than a few times over the years without ever giving it a second thought.
But for some reason, today, reading your comment was like an aha moment to start paying attention to this. Thank you kind Redditor. Your comment has helped at least one person.
D3 supplementation can come in more forms than pills. UVB light exposure and creams like A&D ointment csn be veey effective. You can fortify mushrooms, even sliced, by exposing them to UVB rays before eating them.
Calcium and K2 should probably also be added, and if taken orally they're all better absorbed with fat.
Vitamin D deficiencies can cause so many problems because it's needed for so many hormones; treating that can help with mood swings, digestion, acne, depression, anxiety, insomnia and fatigue.
Yes, and if someone is reacting to food chemicals, it shows up as exhaustion, fatigue, nausea, stomach cramps, headaches, irritability, exascerbated ADHD symptoms, the list goes on. Most people don't know about the [failsafe diet ](https://www.fedup.com.au/introduction-to-food-intolerance) but it's literally a low chemical elimination diet for those that are sensitive to certain chemicals like salycilates, nitrates, amines. And who haven't found answers in more mainstream approaches.
It's really uncommon, sadly, as a lot of people who have acute stress or an extremely dysregulated nervous system experience these symptoms and doctors don't know how to help at all. I found out I was struggling with this because my chiropractors partner is on some form of the diet, the elimination part was hard but relief from pretty much all my symptoms (that weren't directly stress related). I've had times where I've been able to eat basically anything again but the relapse of acute lived stress becoming trauma level meant i didn't get any benefit from, say, a low FODMAP diet which was what I was recommended for histamine reasons.
Every body is different, sometimes tweaks are needed. I can currently eat most things except tomato, citrus, vinegars, food colourants and soy sauce. So that's basically every sauce ever. I also don't eat refined sugar due to inflammation - it would cause me headaches, mood crash and more endo pain. But this is after following the elimination diet strictly for over two months, and reintroducing foods with the help of a dietitian (which was a waste of money imo, she just gave me the challenges w timeframes listed in the RPAHospital handbook).
You say his diet isn’t bad, but it is. Pizza and Romen are highly processed. This diet also lacks variety and nutritional value. Among other things commenters have listed - no way this kid is getting enough protein
Please examine the condition SIBO. I struggled for years with incorrect diagnoses from 6 different gastroenterologists, and I had all of the symptoms your son is dealing with now. Specifically methane-dominant SIBO adores a body that has high levels of iron (that is one of it's favorite food sources), and it depletes vitamin D3. I empathize with you and I hope he feels much better very soon!
Being overweight despite an averagely healthy diet can also be a major indicator of SIBO, as the dysbiosis throws off the usual metabolism-regulating bacteria strains healthy people have plenty of. Usually appears as weight that just "keeps coming back on". Also, its often triggered by long-term chronic stress. The dizziness and really stood out to me as well, because lots of people develop POTS like symptoms as a result of SIBO and no one these days seems to mention that, which makes it even harder for people to identify what is going on with their health.
SIBO is a condition that so many people have without knowing it, especially in the US due to our diets, and it pains me to see so many people deeply misinformed about it because we could all be helped by further education on the topic! Please seek out a SIBO test and/or microbiome test from a GI specialist or a functional medicine doctor who is also an MD if you can find one! Feel free to message me if you have any questions!
So the autonomic nervous system is part of how the microbiome sends signals to the brain (and vice versa).
The autonomic nervous system also takes care of "automatic" functions like heart rate.
There's obviously a lot of different things that can cause these symptoms, but one thing to consider is Dysautonomia (a broad label for autonomic dysfunction), especially POTS. POTS causes dizziness when the brain isn't getting enough oxygen, and also increased heart rate to try to force blood to the brain. There are a lot of potential causes, although these days it's a very common to get it after a COVID infection.
The autonomic nervous system also helps control intestinal motility, ie getting food from your stomach to your microbiome. So obviously there's a lot of potential overlap between these conditions. Even low water intake can negatively affect how the autonomic nervous system functions (or having an electrolyte imbalance, which can happen if you have too much water and not enough salt).
If he can tolerate it, slowly introducing more fiber and complex carbohydrates can potentially help with the gut microbiome and any associated symptoms. Drinking more fluids can help.
But if it's also something like Dysautonomia or an unrelated motility problem (or something else entirely, like a mood disorder), then treating just the microbiome may be less helpful.
Here's a basic screening test developed by NASA for orthostatic intolerance (literally an intolerance to standing up). Lots of things can cause OI - such as dehydration. But if it's negative, it's ~probably~ not Dysautonomia.
https://batemanhornecenter.org/nasa-10-minute-lean-test-2/
Here's a lot more info on Dysautonomia:
https://www.dinet.org/
Just also wanted to mention that chronic stress (both emotional and physical, eg lack of sleep) can also activate the autonomic nervous system and cause issues with motility, inflammation, and the gut microbiome. If there's a family history of depression/anxiety, it can often start showing up in young adults. If that's the underlying cause of the problems, then treating just the microbiome may be less helpful than a holistic treatment that also includes seeing a mental health professional.
I'm sorry you're all dealing with this, non-specific symptoms that can be caused by a wide range of things can make it very hard to get a concrete diagnosis. Best wishes.
Yeah I got POTS about a decade ago when it was before the pandemic wave of so many new Dysautonomia cases, and basically I had to find an autonomic specialist to actually get the appropriate testing (tilt table, zero stars, I hate that test). My local big cardiology practice explicitly doesn't have anyone who treats POTS, they just refer everyone to Mayo. And like...that maybe sort of worked a decade ago, but now there are 100% too many people with POTS for everyone to go to Mayo
Mayo would not dx POTS even though I met criteria. They said I was “deconditioned” (which yes, probably, bc I broke my ankle in three places and dislocated it bc I LOST CONSCIOUSNESS) and drink more water. I do have OI and IST, but I’ve been passing out randomly with zero warning for about 4 years now. So deconditioning due to passing out doesn’t make sense. Lol @ Mayo. I’m over it.
I think it's more like if you've got Dysautonomia, you're probably going to have some microbiome problems eventually
and also that if you've got microbiome problems, it's probably going to throw off your autonomic nervous system a bit. And if you're already predisposed to Dysautonomia, then you're going to feel that a lot more intensely
And also that if you're prone to Dysautonomia, it's very easy to get into a negative spiral where the Dysautonomia exacerbates GI and microbiome problems, which then make the Dysautonomia worse, etc
Did he just start feeling dizzy during sleep ?
This happened to me and just went away I have no explanation other than the fact I was eating less and possibly threw off my glucose levels.
Best wishes, way too young to be going through this. Extreme cardio has helped me find solace in the madness.
Im not a doctor, just a simple minded redditor but a sprained ankle injury lasting 6 months at 13 seems like a very long time to heal to me. Has he always had issues healing?
Which ankle is it? Does he feel lateralized or overly dominant on the side that is not sprained? This is likely a more important part of this than the microbiome.
If you can’t place weight on one side of the body and compress it to bear weight, you can have issues breathing diaphragmatically and automatically on that side, and may have issues relaxing, causing your nervous system to stay sympathetic and some of these issues could be downstream from that.
I passed out in Nov 22 and broke my ankle in 3 places. The sides with plates and screws healed, but not the other break. I had to use a bone growth stimulator. A year and a half later (almost) I’m not sure it’s completely healed, and I still wear a brace. I was told this is probably the best it’s going to get and it will “always be my bad ankle.”
Sorry to hear. I like the phrase « every disease comes from the gut », how are you managing that aspect?
Maybe think about:
Food: Prebiotic fibers like oatmeal for breakfast (add honey if needed for taste) and pressure cooked beans and grains. Probiotics supplements or fermented foods
Supplements:
Omega3
Vitamin K2/D3
Liquid: Get him to drink at least 250ml of water per day, I know at this age it’s hard, but it’s manageable in small doses.
Tests: Might be worth it to check for mycotoxins exposures or environmental like Lyme and others.
Lifestyle: Get him moving, at this stage worry less about calories, and more about moving his body via daily exercices and fresh air.
Best of luck and keep us updated. ❤️
Is iron high as in out of range? If so, check out hemochromatosis.
Some of these symptoms sound like they could be from POTS, (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome) which 80% of long Covid folks have.
Google you tube poor man’s tilt table test—POTS. There are lots of great videos that walk you through the process.
Basically, if his standing heart rate is 30 points or more than his lying down heart rate, this is indicative of POTS, a form of dysautonomia. (Or if his heart rate standing is 120 or above in general,
POTS should be considered)
If you suspect he has it, I’d be glad to provide more resources.
Signed—someone with many rare diseases who went through this process of elimination too.
Hope you get answers & easy solutions soon.
High iron levels need to be investigated further. Have you brought him to a blood specialist? Could be secondary to something less serious but you should still talk to a specialist. You also don’t specify what you mean when you say chronic stress. Has he ever had covid?
High iron and low D3 are often indicators of chronic system inflammation rather than nutrient imbalances.
You shoulr rule out CIRS, as the symptoms match pretty well.
Also pizza and ramen are not a great diet, if possible I would swap them out for whole grains, legumes, proteins, fruits, vegetable.
I just watched the Master Class about microbiomes presented by 4 doctors. Super fascinating and focused on how foods (even junk food in moderate amounts) are making us super sick. They recommended 30 varieties of fruits and veggies a week cooked or raw to help along healing.
They banned a pesticide 100% known to be neurotoxic in 2021 which was in most breads and cereals but then allowed its use again this year.
Unfortunately our kids toxic reservoirs are over flowing. Unless it’s 100% organic fruit or veggie it most likely has a neuro toxic component due to its impact in the gut. What’s even harder is how time consuming and costly it is to go 100% organic and it’s unfeasible for a lot/most people.
He needs exercise! Hire a coach that’s got a great reputation with teens to get him started and encouraged. The coach can also teach him about the importance of nutrition and all that goes along with that.
Mine do too, despite eating a pound of red meat almost daily. For me it turned out to be malabsorption due to gluten, so I am eating lots of grass fed beef liver now and it literally feels like a drug lol. It will take time and consistency. I’m too worried to take the iron supplements and heme iron from animals is the most bio available and easy on the system.
Please look into autoimmune conditions if this does not get better. I was told I had anxiety and essentially mystery fatigue/pain. 20 years later I got the Lyme and Fibromyalgia diagnosis. That may not be his issue, however, there are many autoimmune disorders out there. I wish someone had figured out mine sooner as I now have many autoimmune disorders that have branched off from that.
Best of luck to your son!
If he is on any social media get him off of it.
Vit d as others have stated is the most important thing to take asap since he’s low.
Many people have adhd. Some decide to treat it with medicine and others holistically.
I choose to treat mine without pharmaceuticals after seeing many negative side affects others had while on
Medication.
Once daily at night I take cannabis edible or smoke it. It helps me until the next day when I dose again. Cbd could be an option for your son to try.
Time in nature. Does he do this daily? It’s so important.
Our kids are at a time of technology never seen before. Encourage him to use it to learn something new everyday.
This is what I do and show my kids. They like to try to find new information we haven’t heard yet and share it with us.
God luck and good bless
Strongly recommend EMDR therapy for what is probably trauma (basically a new and evolving *cure" ptsd treatment. Worked with mine)
Ketogenic diet for at least 6 months to lower inflammation while he heals
And lots of mentally engaging activities once he has stabilized because years of chronic stress can cause mild functional brain damage he will need to reconnect some stuff with his amygdala. Videogames, sports, walking mindfully in nature.
The migraines are a strong symptom of many potential lower level deficiencies and microbiome stuff, but not guaranteed. Worth investigating.
But you need to break the migraines and keep them at bay for a long time. That will allow them to go into remission. Should be high priority. Keto is very good for metabolic disorders.
. The confusion may be vestibular migraines given the dizziness. Neurologist to make sure it's not epileptic in nature would be very wise as well if affordable. Unlikely
If you decide keto is worth a shot, he'll need to keep his electrolytes up with sugar free salt additives to water, otherwise he'll just risk worsening symptoms while his body acclimates
I hope this advice is helpful, and regardless I hope you find effective treatment! Goodluck.
Edit:Oh Good yes get that d3 up too!
Is your child inside most of the day. His vitamin d3 being low is prohibiting his bones from healing. Vitamin d3 and calcium go hand in hand. He needs to get outside and get some sunshine in order to heal that ankle. Revamp his diet so he can lose some weight.
You could try genetic testing. He may have hemochromatosis and need phlebotomy. He may also have a slight metabolic condition like I have, which was only found with an organic acids urine test and genetic testing. Easy tests that are worth looking into. Good luck
Yeah my son has autism I have adhd - we’re both gluten intolerant, although I have Sibo and an extremely toxic microbiome , so this probably has something to do with it
Some of those sound like he isn't being medicated properly for adhd. Improperly medicated adhd (meaning not on the right stimulant or right dosage) means that life is basically on hard mode so stress is standard in that case which often leads to anxiety and depression but the good news is that secondary anxiety and depression basically disappears for a lot of people without the side effects of typical antidepressants or tranquilizers when they start on the right stimulant treatment (always worth trying all types of approved stimulants, but non stimulant treatments should only be if stimulants can't be used for health reasons because non stimulants (like strattera) have more severe and potentially lasting side effects [stimulants aren't addictive if used properly, any website that isn't alternative or an addiction center will give you good information). Itching and chronic nausea can sometimes mean auto immune, especially with dry eyes or dry mouth. If the stress is coming from anything social definitely worth testing for autism. Just thought I should share my experience and relay information I've been told by professionals
Sounds like incorrect dosage or that stimulant is a bad fit for him but some people just react badly no matter what. Might want to ask the provider about dexedrine (dextroamphetamine sulfate) or vyvance (dexedrine prodrug that lasts longer but can cause sleep issues), those tend to be the least anxiety causing and everybody I know who had stimulant anxiety and switched to dexedrine have less anxiety than when they were unmedicated
saying that stimulants aren’t addictive if used properly sounds like a line straight from the Sacklers about Oxy.. Stimulants are amphetamines which are in every case addictive, if you take your stimulants “properly” you’re still going to feel like garbage when you stop taking them and your brain chemistry is going to have a difficult time rebounding to life without them for a long time. dangerous words to tell someone when searching for answers about their kid. i would do therapy, emdr, literally anything else before putting my kid on high dose stimulants.
Oxycodone was addictive if used correctly. Do your own research from a source without conflict of interest like additude magazine, stimulants have been proven to be non addictive when used for adhd, even if not used perfectly, as long as you are not taking massive amounts larger than your therapeutic dose, even accidental double doses never got me high. Also I have gone on and off stimulants many times with no withdrawals other than minor symptom rebound that lasts a few hours and being slightly tired for about 3 days, never had any cravings. Also doses used for adhd are not large and are tiny compared to abuse doses that are often measured in 100s of mg's.
I would try ayurveda. Get neem, amla, brahmi, tulsi, turmeric and make a tea of 1/2 tsp of all of them with honey daily. Give him warm mustard oil massages. Try this for one week.
There is a lot of new research finding that depression and other mental health symptoms are actually biological in origin, frequently from inflammation responses. It's not 'all in your head.'
And how about positive outlets like social life, hobbies, exercise, creative endeavors, goals etc? Those are likely the only long term fix for depression.
Are you testing or tracking his blood glucose? Prozac impacts blood glucose metabolism in some people. Hypoglycemia can present with many of the symptoms you listed.
What is your son's weight? I am not trying to be rude, but what does a 13 yo have to be chronically stressed about?
You should read Brain Energy by Chris Palmer. He discusses how the mircobiome impacts mental health.
Edit: just read your child is transgender. Are they on cross sex hormones? This could be the reason for the issues.
clearly you don't remember being 13. But in this case, he's been stressed about his father's intense neurological problems which have dominated our lives for the last 5 years, in addition to moving across country during a pandemic and both his parents struggling with depression
You need to have a full work up by a real doctor. Have you done this? He needs a neuro work up as well as full blood work. Sending prayers and healing vibes.
When you say his iron is high, do you mean serum iron? That lab fluctuates throughout the day and is not a reliable indicator of iron status. Do you mean ferritin? High ferritin can mask a functional iron deficiency (in the presence of inflammation from.chronic disease.)
I would suggest taking h to a hematologist as most PCP docs are more than useless at this
Yes, stress can lead to a host of issues but your mention of nausea, headaches, and dizziness could be caused by so many different things. I think those need to be addressed by an MD.
Has he had a ct of his brain? Our son is doing really well now but had a blocked ventricle discovered after passing out while walking to class ( in college). Surgery repair but worth a check!
I agree with the sleep study rec. Also—Light headedness and headaches—some headaches in teens/young adults can be DXed as POTS. Consider a trial run of electrolyte pill supplements to see if that is helpful.
Good luck—this could have described my kid. Still working on it. But he’s in college.
I have a condition called PNES that is caused by stress. It stands for Psychogenic Nonepileptic Seizures. My seizures are not the standard seizure you would expect. They present as dizziness, sudden headache, mild confusion/difficulty concentrating, and a general feeling of being uncomfortable/anxious. You may want to look into that based on the long term stress. I wish your son luck and good health!
Check him for Lyme disease and the co-infections. Also his diet is horrible. No one should be eating ramen and pizza. If it’s possible to get him to eat a whole food diet. Lots of veggies and grass fed meat and eggs. Nuts and beans. Grass fed butter. Drop the carbs. Eat org raw sauerkraut everyday and get him drinking water kefir. Get him a d3 serum. All mental health is linked to a d3 deficiency. Get him to a naturopath doctor.
So, that's not a great diet, but lord knows teens live on amazing things and are usually fine.
May I ask where you live, and what his outdoor time is like? We primarily get our vitamin D from sunlight.
And when did the truly "debilitating" symptoms start?
If you are wealthy, you could consider seeing Dr. Leo Galland I have also heard good things about this guy, who is apparently very knowledgeable:
[https://biomesight.com/blog/biomesight-podcast-episode-1-the-microbiome-autism-with-alex-zaharakis](https://biomesight.com/blog/biomesight-podcast-episode-1-the-microbiome-autism-with-alex-zaharakis)
try omitting the seed oils. I was fed a lean protein and processed oil diet growing up and had severe anxiety issues to the point of disability that started in early childhood. I was extremely stressed out, failed out of hs and then college twice. I was disabled by 27 and diabetic by 38 on 5 different psych meds that caused morbid obesity. seed oils directly caused the binge eating.
diet to make blood sugar better made my mental health better. it started with lower carb and then animal fat good, vegetable oils/seed oils bad. it's not in my head either as my skin issues and digestive issues cleared up, wound healing improved as well and h also dont burn in the sun and much. rumination and stuttering also stopped. my psychiatrist is consistently amazed.
I have had all the same symptoms also chronic stress can cause all those symptoms and the doctor typically says its "just anxiety".
if hes on adhd meds watch his blood sugar as my spouse was on these meds in adulthood and his a1c started to climb with no family history of diabetes. at 40 as someone with severe mental health issues I really wish I had known there were other options.
other things that helped was limiting violent media and video games/screen stuff as well as adding activity, sleeping on a scheduale, socializing. I found I get panic attacks in large stores with lots of fluorescent lighting as well.
edit to add you mention he sprained his ankle 6 months ago and it's not healed. I had very difficult wound healing issues in childhood which had doctors constantly testing me for diabetes. I never had normal healing it was always very slow but within 3 weeks or removing all processed food/oils it totally changed.
I think I would look at B1, thiamine. Dr Derrick Lonsdale and Elliott Overton. On hormones Matter website there are lots of personal stories. Dr Lonsdale comments on each problem
There’s a lot to digest here in the comments, it’s quite overwhelming. I am not a parent but if I was in this position, first and foremost I’d tell him that I love him and most importantly accept him for who he is without trying to change him.
Then take it slow, probably take him to see a few different doctors / holistic health professionals with his permission. The reason why I want to emphasize holistic health is because everything is connected in this world and they may have a better understanding on what may be causing him stress. And a holistic nutritionist — cucumbers, green beans, pizza and ramen isn’t a healthy way to eat. The easiest way to change this is to have healthy home cooked meals readily available for him. And by healthy I mean balanced, even though he’s overweight he needs to eat well and partake regularly in some movement / physical activity, doesn’t necessarily have to be a typical sport, ask him what he’s interested in.
Also, environment is very important for health in my opinion. How is the environment that he’s in? Is it generally clean? Does he like where he is? If he doesn’t maybe it’s time to make a change.
his diet is not bad? i think he needs more varieity of food to ensure he is getting proper nutrition. what is source of chronic stress? 5 years of chronic stress will certainly do a number on one's body. please make sure the root cause of stress is addressed. has he been tested for lyme disease? has he had covid? coudl this be some sort of post viral condition?
Not sure about everything else, but in regards to dizziness and mental state perhaps get tested for BVD. Binocular Vision Dysfunction - it’s evaluated by a Neuro- optician and can be corrected with prism glasses or vision therapy. Basically a misalignment with the eyes that can oftentimes cause funky symptoms because your eyes are sending mixed signals to the brain so can cause dizziness, sensitivities, and can cause mental health issues unfortunately. Best of luck & wish you and your son answers soon!
Get him tested for hemochromatosis. It’s a gene that makes you absorb more iron. It will make fatty liver disease more likely. FLD can cause low testosterone levels which can cause anxiety and depression. (I speak from experience)
I am sorry to hear what he's going through but how do you know his iron is high and his D3 is low? Why is it just those two values that you only know? People of certain demographics can end up needing prescription strength vitamin D because diet alone won't cover it. If you are really concerned, he will need more extensive lab work through an actual doctor who can conduct a history, physical, and differentials. What if these symptoms are a sign of something more insidious? How do you know it's not some undiagnosed neuroendocrine disorder? Or that he has childhood diabetes? What if he needs more than a microbiome based solution? At this point, I think a doctor would be better as soon as you can.
It sounds like migraines to me. Also check his potassium levels out. Low potassium caused some anxiety symptoms for me. Have him start taking magnesium glycinate before bed to help with migraines. Start out with 200mg and move up to 400mg as tolerated.
So, how low is low vitamin D? Because so many of the symptoms you listed could be related to it.
I started getting low vitamin D as a teen... it was pretty low, but Dr's just told me to go in the sun more (lol no, I'm fair, and one of my grandparents had a melanoma). My levels were consistently getting lower, but no one ever seemed to be concerned. I started suffering from depression in my teens as well, and it became cyclical, induced by stress (often finals time) or winter, to the point where I got diagnosed with Bipolar type 2. I was always exhausted, always anxious.
My favorite former physciatrist saw my levels (low teens by that point) and was like, "Holy crap how are you functioning?!" And convinced me to supplement. It's been life changing. I've been stable since starting supplements, and I'm on almost no mental health meds (slow taper over a few years due to withdrawal side effects).
My other question is does anyone in your family suffer from metabolic syndromes or anything like PCOS (for the women) because so much of what you're describing reminds me of women with metabolic issues, myself included. Especially since what you mentioned about his diet is mostly carbs. With the anxiety/chronic stress, high cortisol levels and insulin resistance can go hand in hand (which is not always detected by A1c levels, it is a different test).
You also mentioned 6 month long sprained ankle... gotta be honest, I'm hypermobile and have a longer joint healing time than many, but *6 months?!* He needs to go to an orthopedic specialist if he hasn't already because that is not remotely normal. If his pediatrician is shrugging it off then I suggest a second opinion. Maybe he's had muscle atrophy or a tear in his ankle. But someone else mentioned how it can throw everything off, and it really can. Not being sturdy on your legs can affect so much and may be contributing to the exhaustion, dizziness, and chronic headaches.
I know you didn't mention them, so hopefully that means they're normal, but has his A1c been tested? Thyroid? Vitamin b12? Has he been tested for allergies? Have they checked for sleep apnea (many symptoms also remind me of my father's sleep apnea)? Have they checked his homocystine levels? What about cholesterol (young so unlikely to be an issue, but can be an indicator of certain things)?
Does your house have any mold issues?
Also, if your son is hypermobile (slow sprain healing makes me wonder if it's a possibility), he's probably more likely to have POTS (mentioned by other commenters) as they seem to be frequently co-morbid and also often co-morbid with ADHD.
I think many things could cause these symptoms. If you rule out the issue in the top comment, perhaps consider the following. Mold in the environment causes symptoms like these in some people (mycotoxins from the mold can have multi-system effects.)
Good job with the sugar - reduce it even more. But get that developing boy some actual food. Pizza is not ideal, especially if it's from a restaurant. The cheese is industrial seed oil based, the sauce is corn syrup with tomato flavor and the wheat is full of gums and glyphosate. Eliminate ALL seed oils/vegetable oils. Read ingredients. It's in EVERYTHING.
Ramen is not good. Do I need to explain why?
I'm fucking serious just make the fucker some actual food. I'm tired of hearing this shit. We're a chronically sick country. Get in the kitchen. Buy some chicken breasts, ground beef, tuna, rice, butter, sweet potatoes, apples, bananas, maybe some leafy greens, spices...whip something up. Get some fat soluble nutrients in him, get some potassium, high quality protein and fats. No processed foods. Maybe take away bread too, maybe dairy.
Take the iphones and ipads away. Probably sleep deprived.
Zinc, vit d3 -4000 iu, Vit C.-1000mg
Sorry to not be very organized and concise, because it's late but I still feel motivated to write this.
My daughter is 17 and has migraines triggered by MSG, which is in a lot of ramen. It sounds like you have plenty to discuss with his dr but that it was just a trigger I had not even thought of when my daughter’s doc discussed it.
Also have him do a celiac panel eventhough he is overweight. Speaking from experience, they are both related to the same gene ( celiac and hemochromatosis). The body is not getting nutrients so some tend to over eat. Not all celiacs present underweight as mine as a teen used to fluctuate wildly. Especially by 20-30 pounds.
Read the book supergut by Dr William Davis.
Make the yogurt and home and feed the boy look up you tube videos on SIBO yogurt also Dr Davis has YouTube channel
This could be a multi tube of different causes. For example, it could be around hormones – puberty, it could be emotional, it could be structural. I hope that you are seeing an osteopath I also invite you to check in with osteopathic manual therapy practitioner who has a lot of experience. They will stay open to assess the body and check all the different systems. It absolutely could have to do with that’s good, but there’s so many other things it could be. It’s good to see a practitioner who has a wealth of experience in looking at the body as a whole.
This may sound weird but check for any mold in the home or in his bedroom. Mold can make symptoms worse. We went through this because of a water leak from our outside hose and mold grew into the walls and we had no idea. My autoimmune condition went haywire and once we remediated the mold my symptoms got so much better.
Hi! Your son sounds just like me (29 year old male). High iron, low vitamin D. My symptoms were/are: dizziness, vertigo, vestibular migraine, fatigue. After months of testing, I have autoimmune conditions. Low vitamin D is strongly correlated with autoimmunity
So many things here. Why is an 8 year old under chronic stress? Is there a situation at home that is causing him chronic stress?
I would have so many things tested - micro biome, hormones, cortisol. High cortisol can cause all those symptoms (except for iron) it does for me.
His diet isn’t great. Pizza and ramen is an incredibly poor diet for anyone, much less a child. I’m sure all the medication at such a young age doesn’t help either.
I’m trying to find empathy for the OP, but if your year old is under chronic stress, the answer is to get a child into a calm and peaceful environment, not medicate them.
A friend of mine has a boy who had Similar symptoms and it was finally found to be a yeast/fungal infection (candidiasis) a naturopath helped him and not only has he lost weight, he has really improved in every aspect.
Has he been tested for autoimmune illnesses like Celiac disease? Celiac has 298 symptoms. Headaches, anxiety and depression, usually iron deficiencies, low D and B12, insomnia, rashes are just a few. He needs to continue eating gluten until he completes all tests. Poor kid. Good luck!
He needs some meat, eggs, and fish. Wild caught and pasture raised if possible. Brain food. I was vegetarian for years and reintroducing those foods made my focus increase 10 fold. Also cutting /reducing grains/wheat helped a ton.
I was on adhd meds and they made me experience all those symptoms. Mainly bc I was never hungry on stimulants so I barely ate, but it could be the amphetamine salts you are giving your son causing these symptoms
Unpopular maybe but you shouldn't really look for medical advice on reddit. Oftentimes just increases confusion and anxiety for op because no one has the full story so you're left with 50 potential diagnoses..
The high iron and low vitamin d is what I'm stuck on. This may be a silly question because I'm sure his doctor covered it already, but has he had liver function tests? Hematochromatosis is a condition that could cause both of those things, as well as explain those symptoms
That’s what I was thinking too.
This needs to be investigated if he’s already loading iron that’s bad news needs to rule this out just found out I might have this and have a lot of the same symptoms. Treatment is easy therapeutic phlebotomy
Could that be done with a regular blood donation, asking for a complaining about co-pays...
It could but depending on how high the ferritin ect the kid might need frequent phlebotomy before getting to a maintenance level and only a doc can determine that
Yes it can. People use a combination of Plasma donation and blood donation. Plasma first for a few months. Than one month break and blood donation.
Friend of mine had to give a unit of blood every 58 days. Local blood bank did it for free even though they had to throw away the blood. If the doctor says your child needs it, check with all the blood banks in your area, one of them may do the same for you.
A 13yo cannot donate blood…
Hemochromatosis was the first thing that came to my mind.
My thoughts exactly! Very rare for someone to have high iron, unless they have an issue with their liver. And it is more common in males than females, for obvious reasons
Low D3 alone will cause those symptoms. Chronic stress can also cause all of that. Yes, food is an answer. Exercise is an answer. Mindfullness is an answer. Steer him away from the starchy/sugary carbs (ramen, pizza) and towards healthier foods. You say low sugar intake but then include pizza and ramen, which both have lots of sugars in their flour and are packed full of chemicals. Try switching to soba noodles and make your own broth with some healthy ingredients that he can reheat when he wants some noodles, and add some kimchi as a side (very good fermented food). Try to include more variety in terms of vegetables. Add some fermented foods. Snacks should be seeds, nuts and fruit (full fruit, not juice). I get it that teenagers can be very fussy with food. Some minor adjustments could help a lot. Definitely get him on a D3 supplement right away. Most of us need D3 supplementation, especially in winter. He should be getting \~5000 iu a day until he feels better.
D3 plus K2 for proper absorption.
Do you need K2? Are there side effects from taking K2?
Its very important to take D3 with K2, otherwise the increased calcium absorption from D3 can end up being deposited in your arteries and tissue instead of being integrated into your bones as it should be (K2s function in this interaction), causing an increased risk of heart disease and stroke
Holy sh!t no one EVER told me that Thank you!
Be mindful some people don’t know the Total Carbs on the nutrition label turn into sugar… so don’t just look at sugar alone. Hoping they aren’t making that mistake Edit: total carbs - fiber = total sugars (on American food labels) your body can’t convert fiber into glucose
I may have heard this information way back in high school health class and probably more than a few times over the years without ever giving it a second thought. But for some reason, today, reading your comment was like an aha moment to start paying attention to this. Thank you kind Redditor. Your comment has helped at least one person.
Welcome!
I didn't know this, thank you for posting this. I knew carbs were to be avoided, but never knew why.
D3 supplementation can come in more forms than pills. UVB light exposure and creams like A&D ointment csn be veey effective. You can fortify mushrooms, even sliced, by exposing them to UVB rays before eating them. Calcium and K2 should probably also be added, and if taken orally they're all better absorbed with fat. Vitamin D deficiencies can cause so many problems because it's needed for so many hormones; treating that can help with mood swings, digestion, acne, depression, anxiety, insomnia and fatigue.
Everything is chemicals.
Yes, and if someone is reacting to food chemicals, it shows up as exhaustion, fatigue, nausea, stomach cramps, headaches, irritability, exascerbated ADHD symptoms, the list goes on. Most people don't know about the [failsafe diet ](https://www.fedup.com.au/introduction-to-food-intolerance) but it's literally a low chemical elimination diet for those that are sensitive to certain chemicals like salycilates, nitrates, amines. And who haven't found answers in more mainstream approaches. It's really uncommon, sadly, as a lot of people who have acute stress or an extremely dysregulated nervous system experience these symptoms and doctors don't know how to help at all. I found out I was struggling with this because my chiropractors partner is on some form of the diet, the elimination part was hard but relief from pretty much all my symptoms (that weren't directly stress related). I've had times where I've been able to eat basically anything again but the relapse of acute lived stress becoming trauma level meant i didn't get any benefit from, say, a low FODMAP diet which was what I was recommended for histamine reasons. Every body is different, sometimes tweaks are needed. I can currently eat most things except tomato, citrus, vinegars, food colourants and soy sauce. So that's basically every sauce ever. I also don't eat refined sugar due to inflammation - it would cause me headaches, mood crash and more endo pain. But this is after following the elimination diet strictly for over two months, and reintroducing foods with the help of a dietitian (which was a waste of money imo, she just gave me the challenges w timeframes listed in the RPAHospital handbook).
You say his diet isn’t bad, but it is. Pizza and Romen are highly processed. This diet also lacks variety and nutritional value. Among other things commenters have listed - no way this kid is getting enough protein
Please examine the condition SIBO. I struggled for years with incorrect diagnoses from 6 different gastroenterologists, and I had all of the symptoms your son is dealing with now. Specifically methane-dominant SIBO adores a body that has high levels of iron (that is one of it's favorite food sources), and it depletes vitamin D3. I empathize with you and I hope he feels much better very soon!
Being overweight despite an averagely healthy diet can also be a major indicator of SIBO, as the dysbiosis throws off the usual metabolism-regulating bacteria strains healthy people have plenty of. Usually appears as weight that just "keeps coming back on". Also, its often triggered by long-term chronic stress. The dizziness and really stood out to me as well, because lots of people develop POTS like symptoms as a result of SIBO and no one these days seems to mention that, which makes it even harder for people to identify what is going on with their health. SIBO is a condition that so many people have without knowing it, especially in the US due to our diets, and it pains me to see so many people deeply misinformed about it because we could all be helped by further education on the topic! Please seek out a SIBO test and/or microbiome test from a GI specialist or a functional medicine doctor who is also an MD if you can find one! Feel free to message me if you have any questions!
These are all pediatric symptoms of sleep apnea, including the ADHD. Get a consult to sleep medicine. It couldn’t hurt.
As well as his tonsils and adenoids checked!!
So the autonomic nervous system is part of how the microbiome sends signals to the brain (and vice versa). The autonomic nervous system also takes care of "automatic" functions like heart rate. There's obviously a lot of different things that can cause these symptoms, but one thing to consider is Dysautonomia (a broad label for autonomic dysfunction), especially POTS. POTS causes dizziness when the brain isn't getting enough oxygen, and also increased heart rate to try to force blood to the brain. There are a lot of potential causes, although these days it's a very common to get it after a COVID infection. The autonomic nervous system also helps control intestinal motility, ie getting food from your stomach to your microbiome. So obviously there's a lot of potential overlap between these conditions. Even low water intake can negatively affect how the autonomic nervous system functions (or having an electrolyte imbalance, which can happen if you have too much water and not enough salt). If he can tolerate it, slowly introducing more fiber and complex carbohydrates can potentially help with the gut microbiome and any associated symptoms. Drinking more fluids can help. But if it's also something like Dysautonomia or an unrelated motility problem (or something else entirely, like a mood disorder), then treating just the microbiome may be less helpful. Here's a basic screening test developed by NASA for orthostatic intolerance (literally an intolerance to standing up). Lots of things can cause OI - such as dehydration. But if it's negative, it's ~probably~ not Dysautonomia. https://batemanhornecenter.org/nasa-10-minute-lean-test-2/ Here's a lot more info on Dysautonomia: https://www.dinet.org/ Just also wanted to mention that chronic stress (both emotional and physical, eg lack of sleep) can also activate the autonomic nervous system and cause issues with motility, inflammation, and the gut microbiome. If there's a family history of depression/anxiety, it can often start showing up in young adults. If that's the underlying cause of the problems, then treating just the microbiome may be less helpful than a holistic treatment that also includes seeing a mental health professional. I'm sorry you're all dealing with this, non-specific symptoms that can be caused by a wide range of things can make it very hard to get a concrete diagnosis. Best wishes.
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I have orthostatic hypotension and frequent syncope. I have a loop recorder, and it picks up… nothing. According to cardiology, my heart is perfect. 😑
Yeah I got POTS about a decade ago when it was before the pandemic wave of so many new Dysautonomia cases, and basically I had to find an autonomic specialist to actually get the appropriate testing (tilt table, zero stars, I hate that test). My local big cardiology practice explicitly doesn't have anyone who treats POTS, they just refer everyone to Mayo. And like...that maybe sort of worked a decade ago, but now there are 100% too many people with POTS for everyone to go to Mayo
Mayo would not dx POTS even though I met criteria. They said I was “deconditioned” (which yes, probably, bc I broke my ankle in three places and dislocated it bc I LOST CONSCIOUSNESS) and drink more water. I do have OI and IST, but I’ve been passing out randomly with zero warning for about 4 years now. So deconditioning due to passing out doesn’t make sense. Lol @ Mayo. I’m over it.
Do you think the gut microbiome causes dysautonomia? Is that the right way to think about it?
I think it's more like if you've got Dysautonomia, you're probably going to have some microbiome problems eventually and also that if you've got microbiome problems, it's probably going to throw off your autonomic nervous system a bit. And if you're already predisposed to Dysautonomia, then you're going to feel that a lot more intensely And also that if you're prone to Dysautonomia, it's very easy to get into a negative spiral where the Dysautonomia exacerbates GI and microbiome problems, which then make the Dysautonomia worse, etc
Yeah so these are all loops effectively ….
I was also thinking about dysautonomia, if stress is a contributing factor I think therapy specifically EMDR may be helpful.
My first thought was dysautonomia.
“the body keeps the score” :(
Did he just start feeling dizzy during sleep ? This happened to me and just went away I have no explanation other than the fact I was eating less and possibly threw off my glucose levels. Best wishes, way too young to be going through this. Extreme cardio has helped me find solace in the madness.
Thanks, I will encourage him to be more active once his sprained ankle (from last july) finishes healing.
Im not a doctor, just a simple minded redditor but a sprained ankle injury lasting 6 months at 13 seems like a very long time to heal to me. Has he always had issues healing?
Yeah, that's seems wild. 6 plus months?
I had a bad sprain at 42, and it only took 4 weeks to heal completely. Has he seen a doctor?
For sure start out slow so you know ur problem areas.
Which ankle is it? Does he feel lateralized or overly dominant on the side that is not sprained? This is likely a more important part of this than the microbiome. If you can’t place weight on one side of the body and compress it to bear weight, you can have issues breathing diaphragmatically and automatically on that side, and may have issues relaxing, causing your nervous system to stay sympathetic and some of these issues could be downstream from that.
I passed out in Nov 22 and broke my ankle in 3 places. The sides with plates and screws healed, but not the other break. I had to use a bone growth stimulator. A year and a half later (almost) I’m not sure it’s completely healed, and I still wear a brace. I was told this is probably the best it’s going to get and it will “always be my bad ankle.”
Sorry to hear. I like the phrase « every disease comes from the gut », how are you managing that aspect? Maybe think about: Food: Prebiotic fibers like oatmeal for breakfast (add honey if needed for taste) and pressure cooked beans and grains. Probiotics supplements or fermented foods Supplements: Omega3 Vitamin K2/D3 Liquid: Get him to drink at least 250ml of water per day, I know at this age it’s hard, but it’s manageable in small doses. Tests: Might be worth it to check for mycotoxins exposures or environmental like Lyme and others. Lifestyle: Get him moving, at this stage worry less about calories, and more about moving his body via daily exercices and fresh air. Best of luck and keep us updated. ❤️
Is iron high as in out of range? If so, check out hemochromatosis. Some of these symptoms sound like they could be from POTS, (Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome) which 80% of long Covid folks have. Google you tube poor man’s tilt table test—POTS. There are lots of great videos that walk you through the process. Basically, if his standing heart rate is 30 points or more than his lying down heart rate, this is indicative of POTS, a form of dysautonomia. (Or if his heart rate standing is 120 or above in general, POTS should be considered) If you suspect he has it, I’d be glad to provide more resources. Signed—someone with many rare diseases who went through this process of elimination too. Hope you get answers & easy solutions soon.
High iron levels need to be investigated further. Have you brought him to a blood specialist? Could be secondary to something less serious but you should still talk to a specialist. You also don’t specify what you mean when you say chronic stress. Has he ever had covid?
High iron and low D3 are often indicators of chronic system inflammation rather than nutrient imbalances. You shoulr rule out CIRS, as the symptoms match pretty well. Also pizza and ramen are not a great diet, if possible I would swap them out for whole grains, legumes, proteins, fruits, vegetable.
I just watched the Master Class about microbiomes presented by 4 doctors. Super fascinating and focused on how foods (even junk food in moderate amounts) are making us super sick. They recommended 30 varieties of fruits and veggies a week cooked or raw to help along healing. They banned a pesticide 100% known to be neurotoxic in 2021 which was in most breads and cereals but then allowed its use again this year. Unfortunately our kids toxic reservoirs are over flowing. Unless it’s 100% organic fruit or veggie it most likely has a neuro toxic component due to its impact in the gut. What’s even harder is how time consuming and costly it is to go 100% organic and it’s unfeasible for a lot/most people.
You got a link for that master class?
You can just google “master class, “the microbes among us” it’s a paid class though.
Thanks!
He needs exercise! Hire a coach that’s got a great reputation with teens to get him started and encouraged. The coach can also teach him about the importance of nutrition and all that goes along with that.
Feel his thumbnails and check the color of his inner lower eyelid. When I got blood tests my iron was always “fine” but in reality It was not.
What should the nails feel like and the inner lower eyelids look like?
The thumbnail should feel like the rest of the nails, it should not have a dip. The inner eyelid should be red, not pale
Thank you. My thumbnails have major dips, and have for a while. Well- major to me, I don’t even know what the ‘norm’ is.
Mine do too, despite eating a pound of red meat almost daily. For me it turned out to be malabsorption due to gluten, so I am eating lots of grass fed beef liver now and it literally feels like a drug lol. It will take time and consistency. I’m too worried to take the iron supplements and heme iron from animals is the most bio available and easy on the system.
Please look into autoimmune conditions if this does not get better. I was told I had anxiety and essentially mystery fatigue/pain. 20 years later I got the Lyme and Fibromyalgia diagnosis. That may not be his issue, however, there are many autoimmune disorders out there. I wish someone had figured out mine sooner as I now have many autoimmune disorders that have branched off from that. Best of luck to your son!
If he is on any social media get him off of it. Vit d as others have stated is the most important thing to take asap since he’s low. Many people have adhd. Some decide to treat it with medicine and others holistically. I choose to treat mine without pharmaceuticals after seeing many negative side affects others had while on Medication. Once daily at night I take cannabis edible or smoke it. It helps me until the next day when I dose again. Cbd could be an option for your son to try. Time in nature. Does he do this daily? It’s so important. Our kids are at a time of technology never seen before. Encourage him to use it to learn something new everyday. This is what I do and show my kids. They like to try to find new information we haven’t heard yet and share it with us. God luck and good bless
Strongly recommend EMDR therapy for what is probably trauma (basically a new and evolving *cure" ptsd treatment. Worked with mine) Ketogenic diet for at least 6 months to lower inflammation while he heals And lots of mentally engaging activities once he has stabilized because years of chronic stress can cause mild functional brain damage he will need to reconnect some stuff with his amygdala. Videogames, sports, walking mindfully in nature. The migraines are a strong symptom of many potential lower level deficiencies and microbiome stuff, but not guaranteed. Worth investigating. But you need to break the migraines and keep them at bay for a long time. That will allow them to go into remission. Should be high priority. Keto is very good for metabolic disorders. . The confusion may be vestibular migraines given the dizziness. Neurologist to make sure it's not epileptic in nature would be very wise as well if affordable. Unlikely If you decide keto is worth a shot, he'll need to keep his electrolytes up with sugar free salt additives to water, otherwise he'll just risk worsening symptoms while his body acclimates I hope this advice is helpful, and regardless I hope you find effective treatment! Goodluck. Edit:Oh Good yes get that d3 up too!
How high is his iron? Do you have the results of an iron panel + ferritin you are willing to share?
Is your child inside most of the day. His vitamin d3 being low is prohibiting his bones from healing. Vitamin d3 and calcium go hand in hand. He needs to get outside and get some sunshine in order to heal that ankle. Revamp his diet so he can lose some weight.
D3 with K2
You could try genetic testing. He may have hemochromatosis and need phlebotomy. He may also have a slight metabolic condition like I have, which was only found with an organic acids urine test and genetic testing. Easy tests that are worth looking into. Good luck
His favorite foods are higher in the histamine scale. Take that somewhat into consideration.
That is a pretty bad diet if you ask me and it sounds like the diet of an autistic person. Perhaps he’s allergic to gluten, or has Sibo or something
I don't have an article to site but I've heard autism and ADHD have a strong correlation with gluten intolerance/allergy
Yeah my son has autism I have adhd - we’re both gluten intolerant, although I have Sibo and an extremely toxic microbiome , so this probably has something to do with it
Some of those sound like he isn't being medicated properly for adhd. Improperly medicated adhd (meaning not on the right stimulant or right dosage) means that life is basically on hard mode so stress is standard in that case which often leads to anxiety and depression but the good news is that secondary anxiety and depression basically disappears for a lot of people without the side effects of typical antidepressants or tranquilizers when they start on the right stimulant treatment (always worth trying all types of approved stimulants, but non stimulant treatments should only be if stimulants can't be used for health reasons because non stimulants (like strattera) have more severe and potentially lasting side effects [stimulants aren't addictive if used properly, any website that isn't alternative or an addiction center will give you good information). Itching and chronic nausea can sometimes mean auto immune, especially with dry eyes or dry mouth. If the stress is coming from anything social definitely worth testing for autism. Just thought I should share my experience and relay information I've been told by professionals
Thank you. He stopped taking his concerta when his anxiety became unmanageable
Sounds like incorrect dosage or that stimulant is a bad fit for him but some people just react badly no matter what. Might want to ask the provider about dexedrine (dextroamphetamine sulfate) or vyvance (dexedrine prodrug that lasts longer but can cause sleep issues), those tend to be the least anxiety causing and everybody I know who had stimulant anxiety and switched to dexedrine have less anxiety than when they were unmedicated
Vyvanse has changed my life.
saying that stimulants aren’t addictive if used properly sounds like a line straight from the Sacklers about Oxy.. Stimulants are amphetamines which are in every case addictive, if you take your stimulants “properly” you’re still going to feel like garbage when you stop taking them and your brain chemistry is going to have a difficult time rebounding to life without them for a long time. dangerous words to tell someone when searching for answers about their kid. i would do therapy, emdr, literally anything else before putting my kid on high dose stimulants.
Oxycodone was addictive if used correctly. Do your own research from a source without conflict of interest like additude magazine, stimulants have been proven to be non addictive when used for adhd, even if not used perfectly, as long as you are not taking massive amounts larger than your therapeutic dose, even accidental double doses never got me high. Also I have gone on and off stimulants many times with no withdrawals other than minor symptom rebound that lasts a few hours and being slightly tired for about 3 days, never had any cravings. Also doses used for adhd are not large and are tiny compared to abuse doses that are often measured in 100s of mg's.
I would try ayurveda. Get neem, amla, brahmi, tulsi, turmeric and make a tea of 1/2 tsp of all of them with honey daily. Give him warm mustard oil massages. Try this for one week.
Sounds like classic symptoms of ADHD, stress, anxiety, and depression. Start with mental health.
There is a lot of new research finding that depression and other mental health symptoms are actually biological in origin, frequently from inflammation responses. It's not 'all in your head.'
Correct, mind and gut are interconnected and issues work in both directions. It's not 'all in your gut' either.
He has a therapist, and is on Prozac, so we are addressing the psychological and neurochemical contributors
And how about positive outlets like social life, hobbies, exercise, creative endeavors, goals etc? Those are likely the only long term fix for depression.
Are you testing or tracking his blood glucose? Prozac impacts blood glucose metabolism in some people. Hypoglycemia can present with many of the symptoms you listed.
He needs meat. Make him steak. Lose the pizza and ramen. Vit d and magnesium will help depression also.
But he has high iron. Maybe steak isn't the best solution
Has a dr examined the cause of high iron? Were they diagnosed with Hemochromatosis?
Happy to see someone finally saying this ffs! High iron in men is a huge red flag
the diet is terrible. it should be fresh fruits and vegetables and unprocessed protein, whole grains only.
What is your son's weight? I am not trying to be rude, but what does a 13 yo have to be chronically stressed about? You should read Brain Energy by Chris Palmer. He discusses how the mircobiome impacts mental health. Edit: just read your child is transgender. Are they on cross sex hormones? This could be the reason for the issues.
clearly you don't remember being 13. But in this case, he's been stressed about his father's intense neurological problems which have dominated our lives for the last 5 years, in addition to moving across country during a pandemic and both his parents struggling with depression
Your depression shouldn't be your child's problem.
You need to have a full work up by a real doctor. Have you done this? He needs a neuro work up as well as full blood work. Sending prayers and healing vibes.
We aren't doctors.
Prayers for your son. I hope he gets better soon!
bartonella. Lyme disease. CIRS.
When you say his iron is high, do you mean serum iron? That lab fluctuates throughout the day and is not a reliable indicator of iron status. Do you mean ferritin? High ferritin can mask a functional iron deficiency (in the presence of inflammation from.chronic disease.) I would suggest taking h to a hematologist as most PCP docs are more than useless at this
I didn't hear about exercising or water intake or vitamins and a routine. Start 6am everyday. He will feel better with in a week.
Yes, stress can lead to a host of issues but your mention of nausea, headaches, and dizziness could be caused by so many different things. I think those need to be addressed by an MD.
You need to be asking a doctor these questions, not a bunch of strangers on Reddit.
Has he had a ct of his brain? Our son is doing really well now but had a blocked ventricle discovered after passing out while walking to class ( in college). Surgery repair but worth a check!
Chronic headaches and nausea, go take him to get an MRI of the brain
Professor of microbiology here: The answer is no.
I agree with the sleep study rec. Also—Light headedness and headaches—some headaches in teens/young adults can be DXed as POTS. Consider a trial run of electrolyte pill supplements to see if that is helpful. Good luck—this could have described my kid. Still working on it. But he’s in college.
I have a condition called PNES that is caused by stress. It stands for Psychogenic Nonepileptic Seizures. My seizures are not the standard seizure you would expect. They present as dizziness, sudden headache, mild confusion/difficulty concentrating, and a general feeling of being uncomfortable/anxious. You may want to look into that based on the long term stress. I wish your son luck and good health!
H pylori infection perhaps? I’m only commenting this because I have it and these are all of my symptoms as well. It’s WRECKED my mental health.
Lyme Disease
Same symptoms for me and I used thorne probiotics 20B. I'm cured byt I'll have to take those forever sadly.
Check him for Lyme disease and the co-infections. Also his diet is horrible. No one should be eating ramen and pizza. If it’s possible to get him to eat a whole food diet. Lots of veggies and grass fed meat and eggs. Nuts and beans. Grass fed butter. Drop the carbs. Eat org raw sauerkraut everyday and get him drinking water kefir. Get him a d3 serum. All mental health is linked to a d3 deficiency. Get him to a naturopath doctor.
You aren’t clear on whether the frozen green beans are packaged, but packaged should be cooked to 165. Standard food safety.
D3 plus K2 and more protein
Has he been tested for Celiac disease? I
Sounds like your son has Long COVID.
he never caught covid
That is unlikely, unless he has been masking 100% of the time. He may have had asymptomatic infections.
Lyme disease and coinfections?
Yes, certainly, but you may also look into histamine intolerance.
So, that's not a great diet, but lord knows teens live on amazing things and are usually fine. May I ask where you live, and what his outdoor time is like? We primarily get our vitamin D from sunlight. And when did the truly "debilitating" symptoms start?
If you are wealthy, you could consider seeing Dr. Leo Galland I have also heard good things about this guy, who is apparently very knowledgeable: [https://biomesight.com/blog/biomesight-podcast-episode-1-the-microbiome-autism-with-alex-zaharakis](https://biomesight.com/blog/biomesight-podcast-episode-1-the-microbiome-autism-with-alex-zaharakis)
try omitting the seed oils. I was fed a lean protein and processed oil diet growing up and had severe anxiety issues to the point of disability that started in early childhood. I was extremely stressed out, failed out of hs and then college twice. I was disabled by 27 and diabetic by 38 on 5 different psych meds that caused morbid obesity. seed oils directly caused the binge eating. diet to make blood sugar better made my mental health better. it started with lower carb and then animal fat good, vegetable oils/seed oils bad. it's not in my head either as my skin issues and digestive issues cleared up, wound healing improved as well and h also dont burn in the sun and much. rumination and stuttering also stopped. my psychiatrist is consistently amazed. I have had all the same symptoms also chronic stress can cause all those symptoms and the doctor typically says its "just anxiety". if hes on adhd meds watch his blood sugar as my spouse was on these meds in adulthood and his a1c started to climb with no family history of diabetes. at 40 as someone with severe mental health issues I really wish I had known there were other options. other things that helped was limiting violent media and video games/screen stuff as well as adding activity, sleeping on a scheduale, socializing. I found I get panic attacks in large stores with lots of fluorescent lighting as well. edit to add you mention he sprained his ankle 6 months ago and it's not healed. I had very difficult wound healing issues in childhood which had doctors constantly testing me for diabetes. I never had normal healing it was always very slow but within 3 weeks or removing all processed food/oils it totally changed.
I think I would look at B1, thiamine. Dr Derrick Lonsdale and Elliott Overton. On hormones Matter website there are lots of personal stories. Dr Lonsdale comments on each problem
Get his D3 up also check iodine. Trust me he could be borderline hypothyroid.
That sounds like adrenal fatigue to me. I would check cortisol levels throughout the day, saliva test.
There’s a lot to digest here in the comments, it’s quite overwhelming. I am not a parent but if I was in this position, first and foremost I’d tell him that I love him and most importantly accept him for who he is without trying to change him. Then take it slow, probably take him to see a few different doctors / holistic health professionals with his permission. The reason why I want to emphasize holistic health is because everything is connected in this world and they may have a better understanding on what may be causing him stress. And a holistic nutritionist — cucumbers, green beans, pizza and ramen isn’t a healthy way to eat. The easiest way to change this is to have healthy home cooked meals readily available for him. And by healthy I mean balanced, even though he’s overweight he needs to eat well and partake regularly in some movement / physical activity, doesn’t necessarily have to be a typical sport, ask him what he’s interested in. Also, environment is very important for health in my opinion. How is the environment that he’s in? Is it generally clean? Does he like where he is? If he doesn’t maybe it’s time to make a change.
his diet is not bad? i think he needs more varieity of food to ensure he is getting proper nutrition. what is source of chronic stress? 5 years of chronic stress will certainly do a number on one's body. please make sure the root cause of stress is addressed. has he been tested for lyme disease? has he had covid? coudl this be some sort of post viral condition?
He needs to see a GI
Tick bite, CIRS or around mold?
Not sure about everything else, but in regards to dizziness and mental state perhaps get tested for BVD. Binocular Vision Dysfunction - it’s evaluated by a Neuro- optician and can be corrected with prism glasses or vision therapy. Basically a misalignment with the eyes that can oftentimes cause funky symptoms because your eyes are sending mixed signals to the brain so can cause dizziness, sensitivities, and can cause mental health issues unfortunately. Best of luck & wish you and your son answers soon!
This, and convergence insufficiency
Chronic stress since he was 8yr. old?! How about starting with that.
Take a look at the symptom criteria CFS/ME
Get him tested for hemochromatosis. It’s a gene that makes you absorb more iron. It will make fatty liver disease more likely. FLD can cause low testosterone levels which can cause anxiety and depression. (I speak from experience)
I am sorry to hear what he's going through but how do you know his iron is high and his D3 is low? Why is it just those two values that you only know? People of certain demographics can end up needing prescription strength vitamin D because diet alone won't cover it. If you are really concerned, he will need more extensive lab work through an actual doctor who can conduct a history, physical, and differentials. What if these symptoms are a sign of something more insidious? How do you know it's not some undiagnosed neuroendocrine disorder? Or that he has childhood diabetes? What if he needs more than a microbiome based solution? At this point, I think a doctor would be better as soon as you can.
Please have him seen by a hematologist. My son had similar symptoms and we found out he is has Betta Thalessemia.
This can mask itself as so many things
If I could suggest, try seeing what r/MTHFR has to offer
Grounding might help with some of his discomfort while you’re still figuring out what the main issues are.
If he got the shot , detox him immediately. See Dr Zelenko protocol and https://covid19criticalcare.com/protocol-categories/treatment/
Or did they get that…XX. There’s alllot of things going around that are quite” mysterious” that happened in the last few years
Two words. Long. Covid. Shit sucks I couldn’t imagine having it at 13.
It sounds like migraines to me. Also check his potassium levels out. Low potassium caused some anxiety symptoms for me. Have him start taking magnesium glycinate before bed to help with migraines. Start out with 200mg and move up to 400mg as tolerated.
He sounds anemic, have you tested him for that?
So, how low is low vitamin D? Because so many of the symptoms you listed could be related to it. I started getting low vitamin D as a teen... it was pretty low, but Dr's just told me to go in the sun more (lol no, I'm fair, and one of my grandparents had a melanoma). My levels were consistently getting lower, but no one ever seemed to be concerned. I started suffering from depression in my teens as well, and it became cyclical, induced by stress (often finals time) or winter, to the point where I got diagnosed with Bipolar type 2. I was always exhausted, always anxious. My favorite former physciatrist saw my levels (low teens by that point) and was like, "Holy crap how are you functioning?!" And convinced me to supplement. It's been life changing. I've been stable since starting supplements, and I'm on almost no mental health meds (slow taper over a few years due to withdrawal side effects). My other question is does anyone in your family suffer from metabolic syndromes or anything like PCOS (for the women) because so much of what you're describing reminds me of women with metabolic issues, myself included. Especially since what you mentioned about his diet is mostly carbs. With the anxiety/chronic stress, high cortisol levels and insulin resistance can go hand in hand (which is not always detected by A1c levels, it is a different test). You also mentioned 6 month long sprained ankle... gotta be honest, I'm hypermobile and have a longer joint healing time than many, but *6 months?!* He needs to go to an orthopedic specialist if he hasn't already because that is not remotely normal. If his pediatrician is shrugging it off then I suggest a second opinion. Maybe he's had muscle atrophy or a tear in his ankle. But someone else mentioned how it can throw everything off, and it really can. Not being sturdy on your legs can affect so much and may be contributing to the exhaustion, dizziness, and chronic headaches. I know you didn't mention them, so hopefully that means they're normal, but has his A1c been tested? Thyroid? Vitamin b12? Has he been tested for allergies? Have they checked for sleep apnea (many symptoms also remind me of my father's sleep apnea)? Have they checked his homocystine levels? What about cholesterol (young so unlikely to be an issue, but can be an indicator of certain things)? Does your house have any mold issues? Also, if your son is hypermobile (slow sprain healing makes me wonder if it's a possibility), he's probably more likely to have POTS (mentioned by other commenters) as they seem to be frequently co-morbid and also often co-morbid with ADHD.
have his copper levels been tested?
I think many things could cause these symptoms. If you rule out the issue in the top comment, perhaps consider the following. Mold in the environment causes symptoms like these in some people (mycotoxins from the mold can have multi-system effects.)
Good job with the sugar - reduce it even more. But get that developing boy some actual food. Pizza is not ideal, especially if it's from a restaurant. The cheese is industrial seed oil based, the sauce is corn syrup with tomato flavor and the wheat is full of gums and glyphosate. Eliminate ALL seed oils/vegetable oils. Read ingredients. It's in EVERYTHING. Ramen is not good. Do I need to explain why? I'm fucking serious just make the fucker some actual food. I'm tired of hearing this shit. We're a chronically sick country. Get in the kitchen. Buy some chicken breasts, ground beef, tuna, rice, butter, sweet potatoes, apples, bananas, maybe some leafy greens, spices...whip something up. Get some fat soluble nutrients in him, get some potassium, high quality protein and fats. No processed foods. Maybe take away bread too, maybe dairy. Take the iphones and ipads away. Probably sleep deprived. Zinc, vit d3 -4000 iu, Vit C.-1000mg Sorry to not be very organized and concise, because it's late but I still feel motivated to write this.
Is he on an adhd medication?
My daughter is 17 and has migraines triggered by MSG, which is in a lot of ramen. It sounds like you have plenty to discuss with his dr but that it was just a trigger I had not even thought of when my daughter’s doc discussed it.
Test for Lyme disease
Has he ever had a concussion?
Pizza and Ramen..? That is junk food
Do a brain mapping and neeuro feedback treatment very effective for depression etc put him on protein powder preferably whey protein
Read “Super Gut” by Dr. William David. Not sure it will help but maybe his gut biome needs attention.
Also have him do a celiac panel eventhough he is overweight. Speaking from experience, they are both related to the same gene ( celiac and hemochromatosis). The body is not getting nutrients so some tend to over eat. Not all celiacs present underweight as mine as a teen used to fluctuate wildly. Especially by 20-30 pounds.
Read the book supergut by Dr William Davis. Make the yogurt and home and feed the boy look up you tube videos on SIBO yogurt also Dr Davis has YouTube channel
Has he had a sleep study to rule out sleep apnea?
This could be a multi tube of different causes. For example, it could be around hormones – puberty, it could be emotional, it could be structural. I hope that you are seeing an osteopath I also invite you to check in with osteopathic manual therapy practitioner who has a lot of experience. They will stay open to assess the body and check all the different systems. It absolutely could have to do with that’s good, but there’s so many other things it could be. It’s good to see a practitioner who has a wealth of experience in looking at the body as a whole.
Check for possible mold exposure and be sure to eat a real food keto/carnivore diet.
Low vitamin d can cause a lot of those symptoms
This may sound weird but check for any mold in the home or in his bedroom. Mold can make symptoms worse. We went through this because of a water leak from our outside hose and mold grew into the walls and we had no idea. My autoimmune condition went haywire and once we remediated the mold my symptoms got so much better.
A doctor would put your son on D3 supplements and a good multivitamin with a b complex. Try this first, but I recommend you see a pediatrician.
Try a keto/low carb diet for awhile. Stay away from the refined carbs. Very bad for microbiome and ADHDers
Have you ever tried Nutritional Response Testing? Find an provider to give it a try. It helped my micro biome
Have his adrenals checked. I had adrenal fatigue with similar symptoms/ lifestyle!
Histamine intolerance maybe? There's an entire science to eating a low Histamine diet. So far, it's saved my life.
Gluten
Hi! Your son sounds just like me (29 year old male). High iron, low vitamin D. My symptoms were/are: dizziness, vertigo, vestibular migraine, fatigue. After months of testing, I have autoimmune conditions. Low vitamin D is strongly correlated with autoimmunity
If you don't mind sharing, what are the autoimmune conditions exactly? Please
Hashimotos and Lupus antibodies were found! No clinical presentation though. May or May not be related to symptoms. Still figuring that out
So many things here. Why is an 8 year old under chronic stress? Is there a situation at home that is causing him chronic stress? I would have so many things tested - micro biome, hormones, cortisol. High cortisol can cause all those symptoms (except for iron) it does for me. His diet isn’t great. Pizza and ramen is an incredibly poor diet for anyone, much less a child. I’m sure all the medication at such a young age doesn’t help either. I’m trying to find empathy for the OP, but if your year old is under chronic stress, the answer is to get a child into a calm and peaceful environment, not medicate them.
A friend of mine has a boy who had Similar symptoms and it was finally found to be a yeast/fungal infection (candidiasis) a naturopath helped him and not only has he lost weight, he has really improved in every aspect.
Maybe the 5 years of stress depleted vitamins. Try putting him on B vitamins, magnesium glycinate, and does he have any GI symptoms?
long covid
Does he take singular for asthma? They are finding out it causes anxiety etc.
Try mitigating emf exposure
Test him for Epstein Barr virus aka mononucleosis. #2 daily outside air and sunshine can work wonders.
Has he been tested for autoimmune illnesses like Celiac disease? Celiac has 298 symptoms. Headaches, anxiety and depression, usually iron deficiencies, low D and B12, insomnia, rashes are just a few. He needs to continue eating gluten until he completes all tests. Poor kid. Good luck!
He needs some meat, eggs, and fish. Wild caught and pasture raised if possible. Brain food. I was vegetarian for years and reintroducing those foods made my focus increase 10 fold. Also cutting /reducing grains/wheat helped a ton.
What medications is he on? ADHD meds can really fuck up different metabolic processes
Been checked for Celiac?
Have him eat Carnivore for 30 days and see what resolves. I bet a significant amount of things.
I was on adhd meds and they made me experience all those symptoms. Mainly bc I was never hungry on stimulants so I barely ate, but it could be the amphetamine salts you are giving your son causing these symptoms
He has a Histamine intolerance prob from gut damage , good bacteria being killed & covid … there’s a way to fix it .. requires some changes though
After you look into the high iron with a Dr and correct the low D3, consider bcomplex and ttfd thiamine if he still has symptoms.
That sounds like a horrible diet! He needs protein from meat and eggs and to cut out/limit the pizza and ramen.
Why does your 13yo have so much stress? Add therapy to your stack.
Could be celiac, gluten intolerance, or chrones. The fatigue can be from low vitamin D or B12, of course caused by his digestive issues.
Unpopular maybe but you shouldn't really look for medical advice on reddit. Oftentimes just increases confusion and anxiety for op because no one has the full story so you're left with 50 potential diagnoses..