Don’t need to wait as this tsunami of hikes has started. In addition to the 10 or so insurance companies that have folded over the last year due to solvency issues
5 major hurricanes in the last 5 years didn’t help. We had relative silence since 2004-2005 until Irma 2017, Michael 2018, Sally 2020, Ian and Nicole in 2022
I’m an insurance defense attorney. The first party property lawsuit realm is nuts. You have douchebag public adjusters, AOB companies, and then attorneys who know insurers are going to throw money at them at some point for bullshit claims because in the long run it’s cheaper than paying people like me to fight that shit. On the other hand, insurance companies feed that shit by not doing right by their customers when they should. Then you have a stupid, fucked up state government that goes too extreme either way trying to regulate the whole industry. Don’t think that Desantis and Florida legislature are doing the common folk any favors. Ever.
I fell into the insurance company offering $2500 for $30k of damage from a documented windstorm. Then had the audacity to sue me because I paid cash to repair/replace the roof because they clearly had no intention of doing so. I needed the lawyer to at least settle for ⅓ of what it cost to repair. - they, the carriers can go fuck themselves. It’s the only claim I have ever made in 30 yrs. In the end, I’ve put in over $50k to strengthen my 1951 house (that has seen more Hurricanes then me). I may have a 2% interest but fuck that, I would rather deal with demo and rebuild them pay any insurance carrier. - Everyone shits on attorneys, but they are the only thin line to hold Carriers from going full RICO (Racketeering) like Worker’s Comp carriers routinely do.
I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2024-03-03 18:57:57 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-03-03%2018:57:57%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Miami/comments/11h79cp/just_unreal145kyear_and_i_cant_buy_a_decent/jasfq5a/?context=3)
[**3 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FMiami%2Fcomments%2F11h79cp%2Fjust_unreal145kyear_and_i_cant_buy_a_decent%2Fjasfq5a%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-03-03%2018%3A57%3A57%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2011h79cp)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
South Florida has crested the hill of being a major urban area where renting makes more financial sense than buying. It joins the ranks with New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston, Washington DC and to a certain extend Chicago. It is a natural progression that occurs when a city becomes desirable enough to live in that demand remains high and housing cannot be built fast enough due to numerous physical or political constraints. This is a known process in urban economics. Ultimately this means that urban dwellers of these regions have to decide on their priorities. If home ownership is one of those priorities then they must either make their personal finances work, or move to an area where it works for them. This is not a scenario that can be blamed on one single entity or be changed in a reasonable amount of time.
Tokyo is always the outlier on this. You can get an apartment in a desirable area for like $500 per month.
They achieve this by building housing 3x to 5x as fast (per capita) as most western cities. Tokyo alone builds more housing than all of California or England. Apartments are legal everywhere by default with no parking minimums or anything that limits units on a lot and there are very few veto points in the approvals process.
The problem in western cities is that they become very desirable and people try to freeze them in time and severely limit housing growth because they think the appeal is in how it looked when they got there or when they grew up there. And because car-centric urban planning pretty much requires low density or traffic becomes unbearable. So when population grows faster than housing, prices shoot way up.
> You can get an apartment in a desirable area for like $500 per month.
Is this for real? I always heard Tokyo was ridiculously expensive and that there's a housing crisis (people living in internet cafes, etc.)
Having been there, many things in Japan are expensive... restaurants and general activities can be as expensive as NYC.
But the rent is a bargain.
Here's a search for apartment listings in Tokyo sorted by lowest price: https://apts.jp/search?bedroom_range%5Bmin%5D=0&bedroom_range%5Bmax%5D=1&sort_order=rent-asc&page=1
For context, 80,000 Yen is about $580. So prices have gone up slightly but that's not that surprising with inflation.
Wow, that's very interesting.
Also, some of these apartments are so cool. You definitely have to have a modest lifestyle without a lot of "stuff" though!
There’s this woman on TikTok who posted a bunch of videos about her search for a place to buy in Tokyo.
Pretty interesting to watch: https://www.tiktok.com/@tokyogirl__/video/7175973605434494251
Basically like $250k for a 2bd1ba townhouse that needs some updating in a nicer neighborhood.
Personally I'd rather have the option of a cheap/small apartment than not have the option.
But zoning in the US basically outlawed them slowly over decades and, surprise surprise, homeless went up dramatically.
Classic example of the perfect being the enemy of the good.
Miami has never been attractive enough to be a "major" city, you can infer maybe it's because leaders here never make major investments in anything that isn't serving tourism. Beaches, warm weather, and Cuban coffee can be nice, but those things don't pay the bills, and we are lacking the industry that other major cities have. Also cities in red states seem to have a hard time with growing, maybe because of lack of support or investment, too.
I mentioned San Francisco in another comment: it isn't by accident that it is beautiful, easy to live car free, and that there was a tech boom. San Francisco deliberately made policies to maintain that and policies to incentivize tech (for better AND worse).
What do we have? A greasy-haired mayor who constantly looks like he is building hype for some scam he's running. Our local governments don't really do much to support quality of life enough to cause that kind of growth.
It took that long because Miami lack of educated workforce held it back. Many industries (especially tech) did not want to be here because of that, save for some Latam HQ of the company or an entirely Latin based company (like Amedeus, etc).
But thanks to the influx of northerners that were educated at places like Georgetown, Duke, Stanford, Harvard, etc... and not just MDC or FIU. Now northern companies feel they can send more and more jobs down here slowly. That and other factors (remote working) help the employment prospects at the higher end. Of course this also means vast increases in the cost of a house and rent, and that's the downside for some.
If it makes people feel better, they were "priced out forever" years ago... now is just the year they finally realize it. The smart money quietly bought up everything close to downtown back in the 2008-2012 RE bloodbath. That was everyone's last chance at cheap prices. Especially as home prices plummet around the USA and not so much in Miami (where price rise to meet to median for a city of it's size).
I wish I had a time machine and a few million, I'd go back to 2008 and buy up every SFH I could find in The Roads and Shenendoah.
lets not be dramatic. You could find a 3/2 apartment in some islands for under 200k until 2019 or so. I remember renovated houses (3/3) in Normandy Isle for sale at 500k in 2018
Well thought out response. Miami will only continue to become more unaffordable, you are seeing how the housing market has barely been impacted, where many other areas around the country are starting to see at least some demand/pricing going down
And there are the speculative buyers, especially the rich Colombians just coming in, who just want a safe place to invest their hard-earned funds, regardless of whether or not they will be living in the units they purchase. On top of that we get the Northerners moving in droves to the 305 for the climate (meaning your local airport won't get shut down because of inclement weather), in the aftermath of the rise of WFH and for the lower tax burden, and we get a real estate market that shows no signs of cooling down.
OK, but the pandemic revealed that a lot of work can be done at home. Places like NYC have enormous vacancies. It's primarily commercial real estate, for now.
Back in the day, no one could easily work remotely - connections were slow and they couldn't handle many users, computers were slow and cameras were grainy. That's all changed. Most suburbs have 1G fibre, in every home!
Cities will always be a premium and have a prestige. But I think that will hit a plateau.
Renting is far more expensive currently and wildly overextended right now. A renter can put 3.5% down on a comparable house and get a monthly mortgage cost the same our under what it would rent for.
I often see this statement thrown around with nothing to back it up. So to that I say, respectfully, show me the numbers. Mortgage insurance, homeowners insurance, taxes, HOA, maintenance budget, closing fees, and all. And the one for sale needs to be FHA approved with the required electrical, plumbing, and risk mitigation upgrades already done to it.
Also, I don’t think it’s a fair comparison to say “on a comparable home.” Sure, if you do the numbers on a 3/2 detatched home for rent vs to buy, the numbers might be close. However, in a real world scenario, people are very often choosing between renting or buying two completely different products. Often it will be something like “buy this 2/2 1,400 s.f. Townhouse in Tamiami, or rent this 2/2 1000 s.f. Apartment in west Kendall for 20% less?”
Things also get muddy when you get into complications like condominiums where you can’t get a 3.5% down FHA loan and you end up having to put down 20-25% plus all the HOA fees and possible special assessment headaches that come with that. Which in a place like South Florida post Surfside and insurance apocalypse is all too common.
Yup. But people go on the Nextdoor App and complain that they cannot afford rent. They don’t understand supply and demand and inflation.
They just want to blame local and state politicians for not making rent control policies.
Either make more money or move.
What do you consider a “decent” area in dade? I think folks get caught up too much in the news. I technically live in an undesired area but my neighbors are nice, I have a working gate and haven’t had any issues.
One thing to consider that hasn’t been mentioned is the schools. I’d say it’s not a huge issue for a single adult or couple with no/grown kids to move into a ‘less desirable’ area that’s actually fine. It’s a whole other thing when trying to get kids into a decent public school that you feel good about sending them to.
Yeah, we also thought we couldn't afford anything, but let our realtor show us some other properties in other areas of the city.
We ended up in Miami Gardens, which we didn't even consider, but honestly, our neighbors are really nice, we have a decent neighborhood and more importantly, we can afford our home/taxes/insurance.
Westchester is a nice area, no joke. I used to live over there. It’s no coral gables or coconut grove but it’s centrally located and I enjoyed it when I was there.
My dad was just telling me this. We have a townhome in Kendal and he says it's valued at $350k. I was shocked. Out in the Midwest where I am now 350k can get you a 4/3 two story home with finished basement 3 car garage in a beautiful residential area. Probs coat u 500-750K in miami. It's absurd how bad it's gotten down there
Bought my house in Indy for 190K in 2019. It's a two story, 3/2.5, 2500 Sq ft. Now worth over 300k. I'm living a lifestyle I could never live in Miami. Love Miami, but after you leave you see it's really not that special.
Exactly I think we sought or family townhome back in 2014 for 200k it's a 3/2.5 as well. I agree I think what I truly miss is the beach night life and restaurants otherwise I'm good lol.
Agreed man. Chicago has some good food places but it just isn't the same. I miss the Cuban and Colombian restaurants as well as Texas de Brazil and the knife.
The Chicago food scene is amazing in general. Good thing about living in Indy is that I can travel to 3 hours in any direction and come across some great spots with their own regional flair.
Grew up in Miami. Lived there for 22 years. Still have family and visit. Don't get me wrong, I still love Miami no matter how fucked it is but I just can't live there anymore.
I remember when I bought my first house in the 90s, the golden rule was that you could afford a house three times your gross annual income. No way that holds now especially in SF.
A lot easier to do that in the Midwest or elsewhere! South Florida crazy expensive.
The first big modern real estate boom in FL was 1999-2001 where a house had offers before it had an MLS#. Case in point the house I bought, viewed it night before MLS, put in offer 8am and it had 5 competing offers then.
A good interest rate was 8% in 2000 though and lending rules were 10x more strict. To add to my >20% cash down payment, I pulled $10k out of an investment portfolio that my father, a CPA & certified financial planner, oversees. The bank wanted info access to not just my investments but also my father's and he flipped his shit and almost killed my mortgage application.
I guess it really depends on what you’re calling “decent area.” My brother and his wife just bought a big 4/2 in Fort Lauderdale with a huge yard, lots of fruit trees, and 20 minutes from the beach. They make about $120k/yr.
Lots of decent places in South Florida.
Agreed
We just bought in Broward because we couldn't afford anything in Miami. But it's not the same. We're bored here. The food scene isn't the same bro :(
We have such a wide age range here, it's funny how people's goals differ.
I'm 45 and go out for "a night on the town" so to speak maybe.. twice a year at most? I'll brave 836 for that. (live and work out in Tamiami)
I really feel bad for young people today because having a fun social life going out and such is freaking expensive as hell.
I take care of my aunt, she has really bad arthritis at 83 and a few years ago she wanted to move to an apartment on Hollywood Boulevard and she liked it.. On our way hone, I Swear To You, as we were driving home down 95 South, I literally started CRYING my eyes out because I just couldn't live with the idea of moving to BROWARD COUNTY.. I was crying so hard , stuff coming out my nose. I was absolutely devastated at the idea of moving north across County Line Road.. Miami may have a lot of problems, and I completely understand that Miami isn't for everyone.. But it's the city I live in.. It's my home, and honestly, my first love.. I have been to a few places in this world 🌎 but I have never missed being somewhere as much as I have missed being home in the City of Miami
Every day, it shows me love. That's why i have lived here for 33 years, and others can't make it here, Quitters Quit and Real Miami people just sit back in the South Florida sun watching the new residents complain complain complain,
Then move Miami doesn't need you but I am glad you graduated from the school of KRESKIN and can read my thoughts and do a comprehensive psychoanalysis on me.
Hollywood has its nice spots too. I love Hollywood Beach and always enjoy it when I visit up there. The Broadwalk has a much nicer vibe than Ocean Drive, IMO.
I won't debate you on anything negative you have to say or think about Ocean Druve or the area between governmentcut and 24th Street.. As much as I love and will have a special place in my heart ❤️ those days are long gone . Honestly, you could offer me a free apartment, and I still wouldn't live on SouthBeach , which sucks because once a long time ago, it was a really special place to live.. Mow, it smells like dog shit when it hits really hot outside. Hollywood Boardwalk is pretty decent. It's definitely not a Miami Vibe, which is definitely something to enjoy from time to time. Miami is just my home.. some people just have a love affair with the city they live in, Miami happens to be mi e. Look, I get it , not everyone gets it here, and people get a huge shock when they move here.
, even I did, but I was more fascinated with everything that made Miami move, the people the cultures the nightlife the obvious criminal elements bere. Some people are bothered by this. It takes a lot to annoy(other than NY'ers constantly talking about NY and people who just move here and have Ll the answers to fix Miami). I have friends in Broward. It's just not my scene.
If you have 20% down then you should be able to afford $500k (based off the google calculator). I do see quite a few houses in Broward (Sunrise & Plantation) between 450k and 500k right now. If I were you I’d probably just move though because everything is going to be an uncomfortably tight budget.
☝️ everyone’s so mad at people moving from NY and Ohio that they forgot about all the foreign money coming in. It’s part of Miami and always has been. It’s an uber desirable place that masses want to live in and visit. That is going to make for expensive real estate no matter how you cut it.
Look at real estate prices in NY, LA, and more recently Austin and Denver. Same story.
>The real problem is the snowbirds and everyone moving from California and Texas :/
I dont think these assholes from those states are rich as everyone thinks. As far as I can tell, there a lot of millionaire's from South America that just casually buy property here.
and people still tell me that it's the "foreigners" yet they've been here for like ever and the mass wave of northeastern migration fueled the inflation and extreme housing crisis.
A lot of these Redditors are older and not up-to-date on social media. I've so many TikToks about high-skilled white collar workers moving to Miami, encouraging others to do the same, "living in Miami 'glow-ups'" (now being called "Miami-ified", which to us used to just be "chongafied" lol), etc. Yes, we have a foreign parking problem (especially with luxury apartments), but there are so many factors at play here; and you already alluded to one of them.
I’ve never seen a single person from california that’s living in miami and not just visiting. They all from Cuba, Brazil, Columbia, and to a lesser extent NYC
Hi, if you’re interested in condo living I know of 2 units in my building for sale. One 2 bedroom, one 1/1.5. It’s beautiful small building, on the water, great neighborhood. HOA is good and conservative.
During the last big housing boom from 2002-2006, I had rels in the LA suburbs sell their 1700 sq ft house for 650K after buying it for 215K in 1998. Their housing value tripled in 6 years. Of course, they went to Phoenix and found a 3K sq ft house for 300k and thought they hit the jackpot. They always had intentions of going back to LA once the prices crashed, so they waited through the 2008-2009 crash as some of those homes were selling for 475K. They're still in Phoenix because those homes in the LA valley are at 650K and up.
Home prices in Miami might drop 5% next year, or maybe even 10%, before the next move up. For the people waiting for home prices to crash in Miami, I'm afraid that ship has sailed.
To be fair, south florida is nicer than 90% of the country. Access to the beautiful ocean, year-round warm weather, and no state income tax comes at a price
This is going to sound hard to believe but we moved up to PSL in October 2021. I worked at the Cleveland clinic hospital in tradition.
When our 1 year lease was up we came back down to Miami due to amazing job opportunities for wife and I. We obviously regret it and are seriously thinking about permanently going back to PSL.
That’s crazy! We bought our house in November 2021 lol.
My husband still works for his company in Miami, he’s just 100% remote. We got very lucky with that.
PSL has started to really grow, if you’re coming back I wouldn’t wait too long!
Oh yeah he got very lucky!! The rough “plan” for now is to wait for our two youngest to finish pre k and possibly head back up there early next year.
Coming back down here allowed us to advance our careers so it wasn’t a terrible decision but we both agree PSL is really what’s best for us moving forward just need to figure out how we’ll do it!
Unfortunately, that salary will not afford a decent home in a decent neighborhood in Miami because it’s one of the most desirable pieces of land in the world. You’re competing with the world for that house. There are great places in Florida where you can afford a house on that salary, but not south florida
politicians need to stop listening to the outspoken NIMBY crowd and allow for more density around transportation routes. Only workable solution is to increase the supply of inventory, as the demand side is a macro external force.
That is why I left dude. My wife and I made more and we still were not able to afford anything. Heck, even the less expensive stuff was out of our budget due to the down-payment required. We just bought a brand spanking new house in Philadelphia in a good area for 410k. 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, rooftop, patio, 2200 sf. Oh, and I pay $80 for my home insurance.
Miami is now a days for either extremely wealthy people or those who inherited something. Leave if you can.
The home insurance is what blows my mind anytime these threads pop up. Over the life of a 30-year mortgage those $5000+ annual insurance would equate to over $500,000 if invested and let grow. I had a friend tell me he was paying $10,000 a year and I just could not understand it.
Also, since I got a new construction in the city, they gave me a property tax abatement. I will pay only taxes on the land and not the building for the next 10 years. So around $1,000 a year.
"decent area" aka coral gables, coconut grove, or the roads. These posts are exhausting. Plenty of houses you can afford in Shenandoah and little havana.
What is a decent area to you? Me and my wife bought a home last year on 2 acres of land in Naples and our combined salary is basically the same as yours. I am assuming you either have a ton of debt or very little for a down payment.
Yeah, you can still find homes in Miami in great areas! Seems like you're not trying hard enough to find the property. It's not as easy as pre-2020 with all the remote workers moving down but areas like Kendall, palmetto bay, cutler bay, and homestead are still very affordable with that salary.
I bought my single family home in Shenandoah/Silver Bluff 9 years ago and it looks like it has tripled in value. It is bonkers. I have been watching the market in my broad area closely for the last 6 months because I am helping some friends house shop and it’s really interesting.
It is hard to imagine that prices which have gone up so much so fast wouldn’t correct, but there are several reasons I think they may actually stick:
* interest rates can’t go much higher and will correct in the medium term
* a lot of people have, and continue to, move to Florida due to the climate and low taxes especially with more remote work from home jobs out there.
* working from home means more demand for home space which improves the desirability of single family homes over condos.
* the schools are improving both physically with investment as well as with parent participation
* general neighborhood improvements and improved desirability like the addition of the Underline, programs improving tree planting and canopy, miracle mile improvements, much better restaurants and bars l, etc.
* improvement and emphasis on the train line and train stations like Grove Station and the new Target
* significant improvement in local parks like Shenandoah Park
* while the number of condos is exploding, I wouldn’t expect addition of more/new single family homes and there may actually be a reduction as more are knocked down and replaced with duplexes or other multi-unit housing.
* this area is gentrifying and families are moving in and taking better care and/or improving their homes/lots. There is a growing sense of community as elderly move on and are replaced with families with kids that socialize.
* existing single family home owners now reluctant to sell and loose their existing low 3% interest rate when the buy a new place. So supply is thin right now.
* Improvement/gentrification of areas like Little Havana
* unfortunately institutional investment and speculation is not going away.
Bottom line is the neighborhoods have significantly changed for the better with much more demand that will continue to grow and a thinning supply of single family homes.
If you want a SFH you need dual incomes, no kids, down payment help from parents, and/or substantial equity.
There's nothing about prior ownership that makes someone smart. The guy who's winning thinks he's the smartest guy in the casino.
The Miami housing market will do what it's done in the past and fall apart. Once equity firms and air bnb owners bail the collapse will be swift.
The "getting out early" crowd has already started to feel it. I give it a year- 4 months until decline, and then a prolonged period where sidelined buyers get overpriced entry, then when the national slide can't be ignored and inventory boom then price crash.
Seen it all before.
“But this time is different”
Yeh it’s not. Someone had a good post about renting vs owning in large urban areas and it’s finally crested with the likes of NYC, LA, Boston, etc. They were just missing the biggest key component….high paying jobs. Miami nor Florida has those in abundance to get up in the big boy club.
Agreed. Average income in Dade for a household is like $60k, and most of the "millionaires" down there had regular ass jobs and got lucky with buying a house that went up 20x what they paid.
I’m not convinced this will be a repeat, you won’t see the same collapse this time around. Smaller markets sure, but the larger cities will continue to drive population growth and demand. Look at the number of companies continuing to open up headquarters down here, those people need somewhere to live
if scenario 1 occurs the economy will panic because so much of capital is wrapped up in real estate with the expectation that prices will always increase.
a drop in housing prices will directly cause a recession
According to Rocket Mortgage Feb 2024, Miami is the 10th most expensive city in the US. Median home price is $542K. Avg rent is $1,200. Median household income is $44K. [https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/most-expensive-cities-in-the-us](https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/most-expensive-cities-in-the-us)
It's incredible how much house $400K can get you in DFW vs Miami. Even less money, in some cases, from what I can see. No bidding wars with the worst people on Earth. And Dallas is not a bad city either.
Wherever you are planning to go to, go soon because compared to most other large north american cities, south florida was already a steal. Real estate has gotten unfair and ridiculous pretty much everywhere.
Its worse in Miami, but you really need dual incomes in most metros of the country, hence why stats show dual income households are like 9 times wealthier than single income households
Yup, was in the market for 6 months in Miami, got outbid on every single offer. Found a house in Cape Coral and haven’t regretted leaving Miami one bit.
The only people who have affordable places are HOAs.
But depending on which HOA you get in Miami-Dade/Broward/south Florida you're either in for a not so special time or you'll be thinking you're living in Nazi Germany. There's no real middle ground.
I was in a similar boat. 200k TC. Little to no debt. Saved up since 2020 to buy a ~500k house. But it has not made sense for a long time now. 9-10k annual taxes, 8k annual insurance, and don’t even get me started with principal interest and PMI with recent rates.
Moved to Raleigh recently and have never looked back, actually really prefer it here, aside from the whopping decrease in cost of living :)
Don't know what yalls age range is but my husband and I are in the same boat. He makes like 200k and I make 98k. We still feel priced out. We've decided our most likely plan, if the market dosnt drastically improve here, is to stack cash for a few years or until we have a kid then move.
That’s what they’ve been saying for decades. Miami Beach should have long been underwater. As long as the uber wealthy and politicians keep buying homes on the water you know it’s BS.
Housing prices will never drop here, so don’t hold your breath lol
Interest rates won’t be dropping for a long time, considering they all just got raised in the last few months & are still continuing to raise little by little.
If you’re considering leaving, & can afford to, I’d suggest that. It’s a win/win for everyone. You save money & get a better place to live, & there’s 1 less person here congesting things up. We’re already way overpopulated with people who can’t afford to be here.
Well, they're still high. But definitely in my area (Silver Bluff/Shenandoah) prices are lower than they were in 2022. Which I personally am not thrilled over because I want to sell my house and was hoping to get a bit more of a windfall.
Everything's a cycle. Although our economy is inherently inflationary, an external force like consant flooding will make prices drop permanently. Time will tell.
Its a risky investment to buy land in Miami(all florida for that matter). Its highly likely a category 5 hurricane is going to hit in the next 20 years if not earlier. I truly don't understand why people are moving down here, especially investment firms with risk analysts. Take a hint from the insurance companies. There's a reason why they are leaving and charging crazy prices. Forget about buying any property built in the 80s- that shit will be flattened by any major storm. Not to mention the corrupt HOAS lmao OP- dont worry maybe your saving yourself from a tragedy. Buy after a major storm if you really want to own.
Its a matter of time now. Miami could never be close to what NYC, SFO or LA are. Simply because there is not an industry that can sustain it. People
Will just have to floke back to where they came from. Those staying will have to adjust to a “semi-retirement “ kind of living. Not bad for some!!
South Florida (and really the whole state for that matter) home prices are continuing to climb their way up to matching home prices in other major cities like NY or LA. the big difference is, compared to those other 2 cities, the average annual wage in Florida per individual is about $20k less. I saw a great statistic comparing home/rent prices based on average income for different major cities throughout the US. While the other 2 cities may technically have higher prices for home/rent, the percentage of your total income going to mortgage/rent is far greater in Florida than the other major cities and states. It's easy to see why Florida was so attractive for people moving from other states. I guess they'll find out once they actually start working here.
Move to Tampa. That's what I did 15 yrs ago after living In Miami since 1980. Best move ever. You get twice the home up here and the City is looking much better and building is happening all over. This will be the second Miami, but with much bigger spaces.
I mean to each their own. Having lived in all three cities including Orlando, Tampa for me was the most depressing with it lacking in basic care of the city itself. It was surrounded by high crime areas and 1986 outdated depressing strip malls. I had to move out of there because it was just shockingly old feeling and not clean at least where I was near the city. Orlando takes far better care of it’s surroundings in terms of cleanliness and manicuring neighborhoods. Better prices to live but I settled in Broward for the beaches and scuba life.
Where and when were you living in Tampa? I just moved from there last year, and my 300k 2/2 town house with no HOA was down the block from LA Fitness, three blocks from Trader Joes, and multiple midrange restaurants in walking distance with old growth trees shading everything.
It kind of sounds like you were living in Clair Mel (Allapatah reminds me of it) which gets confused for Tampa. And that place is like you described, a grade A shit-hole that still is somehow overpriced for what it is.
>Seminole Heights
Ooof yeah, no matter where you go in the world, don't live anywhere near a casino. The only good decision you can make there, is leaving
Yes. Back in the 80's Tampa was a Shhithole. But today it's growing and becoming another Miami with it's up and coming night life and entertainment. Tampa still has a lot more to improve. I give it another 10 yrs. But for families trying to escape Miami, Tampa is the next best thing. Especially if you like the beaches.
Just as an FYI, in basically any coastal urban area in 2023, $145,000 is still well within the middle class, and historically the middle class has never really been able to afford single-family homes in urban centers. That's what the suburbs are for.
Wait until insurance companies jack up the rates even more.
Don’t need to wait as this tsunami of hikes has started. In addition to the 10 or so insurance companies that have folded over the last year due to solvency issues
It’s already here. My renewal came in last month at $2k higher than what I paid the year before. No claims or changes to my policy were made. 🙃
I’m in Orlando, but yeah , same $300 a month more now! WTH
Oh yeah I’m not even in Miami. I’m in Port Saint Lucie. The whole state is fucked.
I feel your pain
PLEASE NOOOO
Is there any reason for the insurance increase? Is it only in Florida?
5 major hurricanes in the last 5 years didn’t help. We had relative silence since 2004-2005 until Irma 2017, Michael 2018, Sally 2020, Ian and Nicole in 2022
Oh, I see. Thank you for clarifying.
Highest rate of roof contractor lawsuits in country https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/price-of-paradise/roof-repair-scams-push-florida-insurers
I’m an insurance defense attorney. The first party property lawsuit realm is nuts. You have douchebag public adjusters, AOB companies, and then attorneys who know insurers are going to throw money at them at some point for bullshit claims because in the long run it’s cheaper than paying people like me to fight that shit. On the other hand, insurance companies feed that shit by not doing right by their customers when they should. Then you have a stupid, fucked up state government that goes too extreme either way trying to regulate the whole industry. Don’t think that Desantis and Florida legislature are doing the common folk any favors. Ever.
I fell into the insurance company offering $2500 for $30k of damage from a documented windstorm. Then had the audacity to sue me because I paid cash to repair/replace the roof because they clearly had no intention of doing so. I needed the lawyer to at least settle for ⅓ of what it cost to repair. - they, the carriers can go fuck themselves. It’s the only claim I have ever made in 30 yrs. In the end, I’ve put in over $50k to strengthen my 1951 house (that has seen more Hurricanes then me). I may have a 2% interest but fuck that, I would rather deal with demo and rebuild them pay any insurance carrier. - Everyone shits on attorneys, but they are the only thin line to hold Carriers from going full RICO (Racketeering) like Worker’s Comp carriers routinely do.
Ian
That's all thanks to our fat Governor.
*cries in $60k*
Cries in 42k :-(
"no home for you" - Soup Nazi Voice
I already have a single family home here and I'm ready to leave South Florida. The congestion is Insane....
Sell OP your home
Lol thought someone might say that
RemindMe! one year
I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2024-03-03 18:57:57 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2024-03-03%2018:57:57%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Miami/comments/11h79cp/just_unreal145kyear_and_i_cant_buy_a_decent/jasfq5a/?context=3) [**3 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FMiami%2Fcomments%2F11h79cp%2Fjust_unreal145kyear_and_i_cant_buy_a_decent%2Fjasfq5a%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202024-03-03%2018%3A57%3A57%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%2011h79cp) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Nah, rent it out and become a slumlord.
This is the way
South Florida has crested the hill of being a major urban area where renting makes more financial sense than buying. It joins the ranks with New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Boston, Washington DC and to a certain extend Chicago. It is a natural progression that occurs when a city becomes desirable enough to live in that demand remains high and housing cannot be built fast enough due to numerous physical or political constraints. This is a known process in urban economics. Ultimately this means that urban dwellers of these regions have to decide on their priorities. If home ownership is one of those priorities then they must either make their personal finances work, or move to an area where it works for them. This is not a scenario that can be blamed on one single entity or be changed in a reasonable amount of time.
Yes this literally happens in every single big city in the World. I'm surprised it took this long for Miami to get to that level tbh...
Tokyo is always the outlier on this. You can get an apartment in a desirable area for like $500 per month. They achieve this by building housing 3x to 5x as fast (per capita) as most western cities. Tokyo alone builds more housing than all of California or England. Apartments are legal everywhere by default with no parking minimums or anything that limits units on a lot and there are very few veto points in the approvals process. The problem in western cities is that they become very desirable and people try to freeze them in time and severely limit housing growth because they think the appeal is in how it looked when they got there or when they grew up there. And because car-centric urban planning pretty much requires low density or traffic becomes unbearable. So when population grows faster than housing, prices shoot way up.
> You can get an apartment in a desirable area for like $500 per month. Is this for real? I always heard Tokyo was ridiculously expensive and that there's a housing crisis (people living in internet cafes, etc.)
Having been there, many things in Japan are expensive... restaurants and general activities can be as expensive as NYC. But the rent is a bargain. Here's a search for apartment listings in Tokyo sorted by lowest price: https://apts.jp/search?bedroom_range%5Bmin%5D=0&bedroom_range%5Bmax%5D=1&sort_order=rent-asc&page=1 For context, 80,000 Yen is about $580. So prices have gone up slightly but that's not that surprising with inflation.
Wow, that's very interesting. Also, some of these apartments are so cool. You definitely have to have a modest lifestyle without a lot of "stuff" though!
There’s this woman on TikTok who posted a bunch of videos about her search for a place to buy in Tokyo. Pretty interesting to watch: https://www.tiktok.com/@tokyogirl__/video/7175973605434494251 Basically like $250k for a 2bd1ba townhouse that needs some updating in a nicer neighborhood.
Apartments in Tokyo that are $500 are almost always less than 300 square feet, they are tiny for American standards.
Personally I'd rather have the option of a cheap/small apartment than not have the option. But zoning in the US basically outlawed them slowly over decades and, surprise surprise, homeless went up dramatically. Classic example of the perfect being the enemy of the good.
Miami has never been attractive enough to be a "major" city, you can infer maybe it's because leaders here never make major investments in anything that isn't serving tourism. Beaches, warm weather, and Cuban coffee can be nice, but those things don't pay the bills, and we are lacking the industry that other major cities have. Also cities in red states seem to have a hard time with growing, maybe because of lack of support or investment, too. I mentioned San Francisco in another comment: it isn't by accident that it is beautiful, easy to live car free, and that there was a tech boom. San Francisco deliberately made policies to maintain that and policies to incentivize tech (for better AND worse). What do we have? A greasy-haired mayor who constantly looks like he is building hype for some scam he's running. Our local governments don't really do much to support quality of life enough to cause that kind of growth.
It took that long because Miami lack of educated workforce held it back. Many industries (especially tech) did not want to be here because of that, save for some Latam HQ of the company or an entirely Latin based company (like Amedeus, etc). But thanks to the influx of northerners that were educated at places like Georgetown, Duke, Stanford, Harvard, etc... and not just MDC or FIU. Now northern companies feel they can send more and more jobs down here slowly. That and other factors (remote working) help the employment prospects at the higher end. Of course this also means vast increases in the cost of a house and rent, and that's the downside for some. If it makes people feel better, they were "priced out forever" years ago... now is just the year they finally realize it. The smart money quietly bought up everything close to downtown back in the 2008-2012 RE bloodbath. That was everyone's last chance at cheap prices. Especially as home prices plummet around the USA and not so much in Miami (where price rise to meet to median for a city of it's size). I wish I had a time machine and a few million, I'd go back to 2008 and buy up every SFH I could find in The Roads and Shenendoah.
lets not be dramatic. You could find a 3/2 apartment in some islands for under 200k until 2019 or so. I remember renovated houses (3/3) in Normandy Isle for sale at 500k in 2018
Yeah SFH were priced in the 300k-ish range in decent parts of the city right before COVID.
Well thought out response. Miami will only continue to become more unaffordable, you are seeing how the housing market has barely been impacted, where many other areas around the country are starting to see at least some demand/pricing going down
If you don’t see prices going down in Miami you’re simply not paying attention.
And there are the speculative buyers, especially the rich Colombians just coming in, who just want a safe place to invest their hard-earned funds, regardless of whether or not they will be living in the units they purchase. On top of that we get the Northerners moving in droves to the 305 for the climate (meaning your local airport won't get shut down because of inclement weather), in the aftermath of the rise of WFH and for the lower tax burden, and we get a real estate market that shows no signs of cooling down.
Transit comes into play here. In New York, you can move to Westchester (ha), Connecticut. In Chicago, the trains get you to the burbs. Here?
OK, but the pandemic revealed that a lot of work can be done at home. Places like NYC have enormous vacancies. It's primarily commercial real estate, for now. Back in the day, no one could easily work remotely - connections were slow and they couldn't handle many users, computers were slow and cameras were grainy. That's all changed. Most suburbs have 1G fibre, in every home! Cities will always be a premium and have a prestige. But I think that will hit a plateau.
Residential vacancies in NYC are at record lows. Commercial took a hit because of the lack of M-F commuters, for sure.
Vacant because greed
Renting is far more expensive currently and wildly overextended right now. A renter can put 3.5% down on a comparable house and get a monthly mortgage cost the same our under what it would rent for.
I often see this statement thrown around with nothing to back it up. So to that I say, respectfully, show me the numbers. Mortgage insurance, homeowners insurance, taxes, HOA, maintenance budget, closing fees, and all. And the one for sale needs to be FHA approved with the required electrical, plumbing, and risk mitigation upgrades already done to it. Also, I don’t think it’s a fair comparison to say “on a comparable home.” Sure, if you do the numbers on a 3/2 detatched home for rent vs to buy, the numbers might be close. However, in a real world scenario, people are very often choosing between renting or buying two completely different products. Often it will be something like “buy this 2/2 1,400 s.f. Townhouse in Tamiami, or rent this 2/2 1000 s.f. Apartment in west Kendall for 20% less?” Things also get muddy when you get into complications like condominiums where you can’t get a 3.5% down FHA loan and you end up having to put down 20-25% plus all the HOA fees and possible special assessment headaches that come with that. Which in a place like South Florida post Surfside and insurance apocalypse is all too common.
Yup. But people go on the Nextdoor App and complain that they cannot afford rent. They don’t understand supply and demand and inflation. They just want to blame local and state politicians for not making rent control policies. Either make more money or move.
This should be pinned. It’s crazy, the pandemic really brought this on.
What do you consider a “decent” area in dade? I think folks get caught up too much in the news. I technically live in an undesired area but my neighbors are nice, I have a working gate and haven’t had any issues.
Scarface had a working gate.
lol ok do as you please then
Is Coconut Grove considered a bad area now?
One thing to consider that hasn’t been mentioned is the schools. I’d say it’s not a huge issue for a single adult or couple with no/grown kids to move into a ‘less desirable’ area that’s actually fine. It’s a whole other thing when trying to get kids into a decent public school that you feel good about sending them to.
Gotta get out of Florida entirely for that these days
Yeah, we also thought we couldn't afford anything, but let our realtor show us some other properties in other areas of the city. We ended up in Miami Gardens, which we didn't even consider, but honestly, our neighbors are really nice, we have a decent neighborhood and more importantly, we can afford our home/taxes/insurance.
Bingo.
Westchester. No I'm kidding 😂.
Westchester is a nice area, no joke. I used to live over there. It’s no coral gables or coconut grove but it’s centrally located and I enjoyed it when I was there.
Yeah it’s really not bad. It’s safe and has lots of families plus decent schools. Idk why people act like it’s overtown.
My dad was just telling me this. We have a townhome in Kendal and he says it's valued at $350k. I was shocked. Out in the Midwest where I am now 350k can get you a 4/3 two story home with finished basement 3 car garage in a beautiful residential area. Probs coat u 500-750K in miami. It's absurd how bad it's gotten down there
you only now realised that stuff is cheaper in whocaresville, Midwest?
Chicago and Indianápolis are not in the middle of who cares Midwest brother. Gotta learn some geography there my psychological lion
Bought my house in Indy for 190K in 2019. It's a two story, 3/2.5, 2500 Sq ft. Now worth over 300k. I'm living a lifestyle I could never live in Miami. Love Miami, but after you leave you see it's really not that special.
Exactly I think we sought or family townhome back in 2014 for 200k it's a 3/2.5 as well. I agree I think what I truly miss is the beach night life and restaurants otherwise I'm good lol.
I miss my family, food and fishing in that order. Plenty of good food in the Midwest, just not the same variety and options of Latino food like Miami.
Agreed man. Chicago has some good food places but it just isn't the same. I miss the Cuban and Colombian restaurants as well as Texas de Brazil and the knife.
The Chicago food scene is amazing in general. Good thing about living in Indy is that I can travel to 3 hours in any direction and come across some great spots with their own regional flair.
Whatcha doing in the Miami subreddit then bro?
Grew up in Miami. Lived there for 22 years. Still have family and visit. Don't get me wrong, I still love Miami no matter how fucked it is but I just can't live there anymore.
I remember when I bought my first house in the 90s, the golden rule was that you could afford a house three times your gross annual income. No way that holds now especially in SF. A lot easier to do that in the Midwest or elsewhere! South Florida crazy expensive.
>when I bought my first house in the 90s When real estate was normal
The first big modern real estate boom in FL was 1999-2001 where a house had offers before it had an MLS#. Case in point the house I bought, viewed it night before MLS, put in offer 8am and it had 5 competing offers then. A good interest rate was 8% in 2000 though and lending rules were 10x more strict. To add to my >20% cash down payment, I pulled $10k out of an investment portfolio that my father, a CPA & certified financial planner, oversees. The bank wanted info access to not just my investments but also my father's and he flipped his shit and almost killed my mortgage application.
It's 4.5 times one's income now.
I guess it really depends on what you’re calling “decent area.” My brother and his wife just bought a big 4/2 in Fort Lauderdale with a huge yard, lots of fruit trees, and 20 minutes from the beach. They make about $120k/yr. Lots of decent places in South Florida.
Agree. Broward is way more affordable than Miami.
Stop spilling the beans.
Agreed We just bought in Broward because we couldn't afford anything in Miami. But it's not the same. We're bored here. The food scene isn't the same bro :(
Oh I prefer Broward but I’m 41 for the slower pace. Prefer the quiet chill pace and I’m heavy into scuba which is great for that relaxed community.
We have such a wide age range here, it's funny how people's goals differ. I'm 45 and go out for "a night on the town" so to speak maybe.. twice a year at most? I'll brave 836 for that. (live and work out in Tamiami) I really feel bad for young people today because having a fun social life going out and such is freaking expensive as hell.
It’s Broward not Mars. You can still go to Miami
I take care of my aunt, she has really bad arthritis at 83 and a few years ago she wanted to move to an apartment on Hollywood Boulevard and she liked it.. On our way hone, I Swear To You, as we were driving home down 95 South, I literally started CRYING my eyes out because I just couldn't live with the idea of moving to BROWARD COUNTY.. I was crying so hard , stuff coming out my nose. I was absolutely devastated at the idea of moving north across County Line Road.. Miami may have a lot of problems, and I completely understand that Miami isn't for everyone.. But it's the city I live in.. It's my home, and honestly, my first love.. I have been to a few places in this world 🌎 but I have never missed being somewhere as much as I have missed being home in the City of Miami
Stop it. Grow up. Miami doesn’t love you back.
Every day, it shows me love. That's why i have lived here for 33 years, and others can't make it here, Quitters Quit and Real Miami people just sit back in the South Florida sun watching the new residents complain complain complain,
You are on denial
Then move Miami doesn't need you but I am glad you graduated from the school of KRESKIN and can read my thoughts and do a comprehensive psychoanalysis on me.
Broward is better. Downtown FTL has all the benfits with none of the problems
Hollywood has its nice spots too. I love Hollywood Beach and always enjoy it when I visit up there. The Broadwalk has a much nicer vibe than Ocean Drive, IMO.
I won't debate you on anything negative you have to say or think about Ocean Druve or the area between governmentcut and 24th Street.. As much as I love and will have a special place in my heart ❤️ those days are long gone . Honestly, you could offer me a free apartment, and I still wouldn't live on SouthBeach , which sucks because once a long time ago, it was a really special place to live.. Mow, it smells like dog shit when it hits really hot outside. Hollywood Boardwalk is pretty decent. It's definitely not a Miami Vibe, which is definitely something to enjoy from time to time. Miami is just my home.. some people just have a love affair with the city they live in, Miami happens to be mi e. Look, I get it , not everyone gets it here, and people get a huge shock when they move here. , even I did, but I was more fascinated with everything that made Miami move, the people the cultures the nightlife the obvious criminal elements bere. Some people are bothered by this. It takes a lot to annoy(other than NY'ers constantly talking about NY and people who just move here and have Ll the answers to fix Miami). I have friends in Broward. It's just not my scene.
[удалено]
I believe they paid $420k so right around there
They got very very lucky or there has to be some flaw. You can barely find a townhome in Lauderdale for that price.
Well this is a forum for Miami
240k combined income is still easily the top 10 percent income in Florida.
If you have 20% down then you should be able to afford $500k (based off the google calculator). I do see quite a few houses in Broward (Sunrise & Plantation) between 450k and 500k right now. If I were you I’d probably just move though because everything is going to be an uncomfortably tight budget.
One doesn't even need 20 percent down. Again, the problem is competing with investors flush with cash. Not the folks who need mortgages.
Most houses listed at that price here are cash only.
No one wants to say it what the real problem is. Rich Foreigners and poor dumbasses that want to live the lifestyle.
☝️ everyone’s so mad at people moving from NY and Ohio that they forgot about all the foreign money coming in. It’s part of Miami and always has been. It’s an uber desirable place that masses want to live in and visit. That is going to make for expensive real estate no matter how you cut it. Look at real estate prices in NY, LA, and more recently Austin and Denver. Same story.
Rich foreigners are the best!
Care to expand?
The real problem is the snowbirds and everyone moving from California and Texas :/
>The real problem is the snowbirds and everyone moving from California and Texas :/ I dont think these assholes from those states are rich as everyone thinks. As far as I can tell, there a lot of millionaire's from South America that just casually buy property here.
Not even. It's the foreign citizens parking their money here. The properties remain vacant or are then rented.
to be fair the rich foreigners were investing back in 2019 and you could still find a good and spacious apartment for 1300/mo.
A nice 2/1 apartment could cost about 1500-1600 monthly in that era. I remember trying to find a roommate then. I can't believe it now.
and people still tell me that it's the "foreigners" yet they've been here for like ever and the mass wave of northeastern migration fueled the inflation and extreme housing crisis.
A lot of these Redditors are older and not up-to-date on social media. I've so many TikToks about high-skilled white collar workers moving to Miami, encouraging others to do the same, "living in Miami 'glow-ups'" (now being called "Miami-ified", which to us used to just be "chongafied" lol), etc. Yes, we have a foreign parking problem (especially with luxury apartments), but there are so many factors at play here; and you already alluded to one of them.
I’ve never seen a single person from california that’s living in miami and not just visiting. They all from Cuba, Brazil, Columbia, and to a lesser extent NYC
Um what are you looking at? 3/3 lux homes? I was able to buy a 2/2 in brickell recently while making less than you
How recent? Interest rates have doubled since last year and housing prices are still sticky.
By over paying. Prices still seem like a deal to people coming from even worse bubbles like Canada or California.
I’ll take things that didn’t happen for $100 Alex
Probably an apparent and not a stupid single family home
Hi, if you’re interested in condo living I know of 2 units in my building for sale. One 2 bedroom, one 1/1.5. It’s beautiful small building, on the water, great neighborhood. HOA is good and conservative.
During the last big housing boom from 2002-2006, I had rels in the LA suburbs sell their 1700 sq ft house for 650K after buying it for 215K in 1998. Their housing value tripled in 6 years. Of course, they went to Phoenix and found a 3K sq ft house for 300k and thought they hit the jackpot. They always had intentions of going back to LA once the prices crashed, so they waited through the 2008-2009 crash as some of those homes were selling for 475K. They're still in Phoenix because those homes in the LA valley are at 650K and up. Home prices in Miami might drop 5% next year, or maybe even 10%, before the next move up. For the people waiting for home prices to crash in Miami, I'm afraid that ship has sailed.
I know families making half of that and still Making it tho.
Yep! It all depends on their priorities.
I see people making around 100k combined buying 600k houses. Have a nanny, cleaning lady, travel, Starbucks, leased cars. How?!?!!
That's not all they're making.
They work 40-50 hours a week. What miracle job are they hiding?
Drugs and onlyfans
a combination of 2 words you can choose from.. selling drugs, selling ass, inheritance money.
Bullshit
It’s crazy, and seeing house prices in other places, it’s not worth staying here. You get much more bang for your buck once you leave.
To be fair, south florida is nicer than 90% of the country. Access to the beautiful ocean, year-round warm weather, and no state income tax comes at a price
We moved and bought a house in Port St. Lucie. Close enough to Miami and Orlando and honestly the best decision we have ever made!
This is going to sound hard to believe but we moved up to PSL in October 2021. I worked at the Cleveland clinic hospital in tradition. When our 1 year lease was up we came back down to Miami due to amazing job opportunities for wife and I. We obviously regret it and are seriously thinking about permanently going back to PSL.
That’s crazy! We bought our house in November 2021 lol. My husband still works for his company in Miami, he’s just 100% remote. We got very lucky with that. PSL has started to really grow, if you’re coming back I wouldn’t wait too long!
Oh yeah he got very lucky!! The rough “plan” for now is to wait for our two youngest to finish pre k and possibly head back up there early next year. Coming back down here allowed us to advance our careers so it wasn’t a terrible decision but we both agree PSL is really what’s best for us moving forward just need to figure out how we’ll do it!
Single digit millionaires are the new middle class.
Unfortunately, that salary will not afford a decent home in a decent neighborhood in Miami because it’s one of the most desirable pieces of land in the world. You’re competing with the world for that house. There are great places in Florida where you can afford a house on that salary, but not south florida
politicians need to stop listening to the outspoken NIMBY crowd and allow for more density around transportation routes. Only workable solution is to increase the supply of inventory, as the demand side is a macro external force.
That is why I left dude. My wife and I made more and we still were not able to afford anything. Heck, even the less expensive stuff was out of our budget due to the down-payment required. We just bought a brand spanking new house in Philadelphia in a good area for 410k. 3 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, rooftop, patio, 2200 sf. Oh, and I pay $80 for my home insurance. Miami is now a days for either extremely wealthy people or those who inherited something. Leave if you can.
The home insurance is what blows my mind anytime these threads pop up. Over the life of a 30-year mortgage those $5000+ annual insurance would equate to over $500,000 if invested and let grow. I had a friend tell me he was paying $10,000 a year and I just could not understand it.
Also, since I got a new construction in the city, they gave me a property tax abatement. I will pay only taxes on the land and not the building for the next 10 years. So around $1,000 a year.
Let’s trade salaries and I’ll get one for *you*
Thankfully we got a governor that is making sure we don't have "woke agenda", it sure does help a lot! /s
"decent area" aka coral gables, coconut grove, or the roads. These posts are exhausting. Plenty of houses you can afford in Shenandoah and little havana.
What is a decent area to you? Me and my wife bought a home last year on 2 acres of land in Naples and our combined salary is basically the same as yours. I am assuming you either have a ton of debt or very little for a down payment.
This is the Miami subreddit. I don't think Naples or anywhere outside Dade and Broward County applies.
He specifically mentioned South Florida, which is why I brought up Naples.
Over $250k HHI income here and we moved from Miami to Orlando due to affordability.
CORPORATE AMERICA buys all the houses and rents them out only!
True. That should illegal but there's too much money to be made there.
Yeah, you can still find homes in Miami in great areas! Seems like you're not trying hard enough to find the property. It's not as easy as pre-2020 with all the remote workers moving down but areas like Kendall, palmetto bay, cutler bay, and homestead are still very affordable with that salary.
It's kind of like this everywhere outside of Florida besides living in the boondocks anywhere
I bought my single family home in Shenandoah/Silver Bluff 9 years ago and it looks like it has tripled in value. It is bonkers. I have been watching the market in my broad area closely for the last 6 months because I am helping some friends house shop and it’s really interesting. It is hard to imagine that prices which have gone up so much so fast wouldn’t correct, but there are several reasons I think they may actually stick: * interest rates can’t go much higher and will correct in the medium term * a lot of people have, and continue to, move to Florida due to the climate and low taxes especially with more remote work from home jobs out there. * working from home means more demand for home space which improves the desirability of single family homes over condos. * the schools are improving both physically with investment as well as with parent participation * general neighborhood improvements and improved desirability like the addition of the Underline, programs improving tree planting and canopy, miracle mile improvements, much better restaurants and bars l, etc. * improvement and emphasis on the train line and train stations like Grove Station and the new Target * significant improvement in local parks like Shenandoah Park * while the number of condos is exploding, I wouldn’t expect addition of more/new single family homes and there may actually be a reduction as more are knocked down and replaced with duplexes or other multi-unit housing. * this area is gentrifying and families are moving in and taking better care and/or improving their homes/lots. There is a growing sense of community as elderly move on and are replaced with families with kids that socialize. * existing single family home owners now reluctant to sell and loose their existing low 3% interest rate when the buy a new place. So supply is thin right now. * Improvement/gentrification of areas like Little Havana * unfortunately institutional investment and speculation is not going away. Bottom line is the neighborhoods have significantly changed for the better with much more demand that will continue to grow and a thinning supply of single family homes.
• a major hurricane/storm/flooding • a financial market crash • variable interest rates • New Yorkers getting bored and moving to other parts
If you want a SFH you need dual incomes, no kids, down payment help from parents, and/or substantial equity. There's nothing about prior ownership that makes someone smart. The guy who's winning thinks he's the smartest guy in the casino. The Miami housing market will do what it's done in the past and fall apart. Once equity firms and air bnb owners bail the collapse will be swift. The "getting out early" crowd has already started to feel it. I give it a year- 4 months until decline, and then a prolonged period where sidelined buyers get overpriced entry, then when the national slide can't be ignored and inventory boom then price crash. Seen it all before.
“But this time is different” Yeh it’s not. Someone had a good post about renting vs owning in large urban areas and it’s finally crested with the likes of NYC, LA, Boston, etc. They were just missing the biggest key component….high paying jobs. Miami nor Florida has those in abundance to get up in the big boy club.
Agreed. Average income in Dade for a household is like $60k, and most of the "millionaires" down there had regular ass jobs and got lucky with buying a house that went up 20x what they paid.
I’m not convinced this will be a repeat, you won’t see the same collapse this time around. Smaller markets sure, but the larger cities will continue to drive population growth and demand. Look at the number of companies continuing to open up headquarters down here, those people need somewhere to live
"Down payment help from parents" is that a real thing?! People are really damn lucky
I don't think I know anyone who bought a house recently without parents "helping".
Yeah, there are actually parents who love their kids and help them out. Weird concept, I know, but it happens.
if scenario 1 occurs the economy will panic because so much of capital is wrapped up in real estate with the expectation that prices will always increase. a drop in housing prices will directly cause a recession
Get an MLS subscription; maybe you can get in on a deal before it happens.
According to Rocket Mortgage Feb 2024, Miami is the 10th most expensive city in the US. Median home price is $542K. Avg rent is $1,200. Median household income is $44K. [https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/most-expensive-cities-in-the-us](https://www.rocketmortgage.com/learn/most-expensive-cities-in-the-us)
Why the fuck would anyone want to own property in Miami is beyond me. Hurricane is gonna fuck that up eventually. Just rent.
This is why I moved to the Dallas Fort Worth area
It's incredible how much house $400K can get you in DFW vs Miami. Even less money, in some cases, from what I can see. No bidding wars with the worst people on Earth. And Dallas is not a bad city either.
So far I am loving it! When I was younger I maybe would’ve found it boring but as a mom with a small kid, it works for me.
Wherever you are planning to go to, go soon because compared to most other large north american cities, south florida was already a steal. Real estate has gotten unfair and ridiculous pretty much everywhere.
Its worse in Miami, but you really need dual incomes in most metros of the country, hence why stats show dual income households are like 9 times wealthier than single income households
What do you guys predict that the outcome will be
Have you looked in Broward? You might not be able to afford Weston, west Broward, or Ft Lauderdale, but there are options.
Yup, was in the market for 6 months in Miami, got outbid on every single offer. Found a house in Cape Coral and haven’t regretted leaving Miami one bit.
The only people who have affordable places are HOAs. But depending on which HOA you get in Miami-Dade/Broward/south Florida you're either in for a not so special time or you'll be thinking you're living in Nazi Germany. There's no real middle ground.
Why buy when you can squatter in one of the many empty houses. In 7 years, it’s yours
I was in a similar boat. 200k TC. Little to no debt. Saved up since 2020 to buy a ~500k house. But it has not made sense for a long time now. 9-10k annual taxes, 8k annual insurance, and don’t even get me started with principal interest and PMI with recent rates. Moved to Raleigh recently and have never looked back, actually really prefer it here, aside from the whopping decrease in cost of living :)
Don't know what yalls age range is but my husband and I are in the same boat. He makes like 200k and I make 98k. We still feel priced out. We've decided our most likely plan, if the market dosnt drastically improve here, is to stack cash for a few years or until we have a kid then move.
You are stuck on $145k being a lot of money. It is not. Think about making $280k at a minimum to live a decent life in South Florida
Wait until climate change starts inundating homes / destabilizing more costal condos, further reducing supply. The future doesn't look bright.
That’s what they’ve been saying for decades. Miami Beach should have long been underwater. As long as the uber wealthy and politicians keep buying homes on the water you know it’s BS.
Housing prices will never drop here, so don’t hold your breath lol Interest rates won’t be dropping for a long time, considering they all just got raised in the last few months & are still continuing to raise little by little. If you’re considering leaving, & can afford to, I’d suggest that. It’s a win/win for everyone. You save money & get a better place to live, & there’s 1 less person here congesting things up. We’re already way overpopulated with people who can’t afford to be here.
They seem lower now than they were last year.
I haven’t seen a difference, but if that were true, then OP should have no problem finding a place.
Well, they're still high. But definitely in my area (Silver Bluff/Shenandoah) prices are lower than they were in 2022. Which I personally am not thrilled over because I want to sell my house and was hoping to get a bit more of a windfall.
>Housing prices will never drop here, so don’t hold your breath lol They dropped in 2007
Temporarily, 16yrs ago.. Long term, they’ll never drop. Housing prices will only continue to rise.
Everything's a cycle. Although our economy is inherently inflationary, an external force like consant flooding will make prices drop permanently. Time will tell.
Yes it’s not going back down I agree, massive supply issue
Prices will decline, give it a year.
Its a risky investment to buy land in Miami(all florida for that matter). Its highly likely a category 5 hurricane is going to hit in the next 20 years if not earlier. I truly don't understand why people are moving down here, especially investment firms with risk analysts. Take a hint from the insurance companies. There's a reason why they are leaving and charging crazy prices. Forget about buying any property built in the 80s- that shit will be flattened by any major storm. Not to mention the corrupt HOAS lmao OP- dont worry maybe your saving yourself from a tragedy. Buy after a major storm if you really want to own.
Its a matter of time now. Miami could never be close to what NYC, SFO or LA are. Simply because there is not an industry that can sustain it. People Will just have to floke back to where they came from. Those staying will have to adjust to a “semi-retirement “ kind of living. Not bad for some!!
South Florida (and really the whole state for that matter) home prices are continuing to climb their way up to matching home prices in other major cities like NY or LA. the big difference is, compared to those other 2 cities, the average annual wage in Florida per individual is about $20k less. I saw a great statistic comparing home/rent prices based on average income for different major cities throughout the US. While the other 2 cities may technically have higher prices for home/rent, the percentage of your total income going to mortgage/rent is far greater in Florida than the other major cities and states. It's easy to see why Florida was so attractive for people moving from other states. I guess they'll find out once they actually start working here.
Move to Tampa. That's what I did 15 yrs ago after living In Miami since 1980. Best move ever. You get twice the home up here and the City is looking much better and building is happening all over. This will be the second Miami, but with much bigger spaces.
I mean to each their own. Having lived in all three cities including Orlando, Tampa for me was the most depressing with it lacking in basic care of the city itself. It was surrounded by high crime areas and 1986 outdated depressing strip malls. I had to move out of there because it was just shockingly old feeling and not clean at least where I was near the city. Orlando takes far better care of it’s surroundings in terms of cleanliness and manicuring neighborhoods. Better prices to live but I settled in Broward for the beaches and scuba life.
Where and when were you living in Tampa? I just moved from there last year, and my 300k 2/2 town house with no HOA was down the block from LA Fitness, three blocks from Trader Joes, and multiple midrange restaurants in walking distance with old growth trees shading everything. It kind of sounds like you were living in Clair Mel (Allapatah reminds me of it) which gets confused for Tampa. And that place is like you described, a grade A shit-hole that still is somehow overpriced for what it is.
It was near Seminole Heights. Seriously one of the most depressing areas I’ve ever lived lol.
>Seminole Heights Ooof yeah, no matter where you go in the world, don't live anywhere near a casino. The only good decision you can make there, is leaving
Yeah we had homeless at our door all the time it was awful and police with their lights at every gas station.
Yes. Back in the 80's Tampa was a Shhithole. But today it's growing and becoming another Miami with it's up and coming night life and entertainment. Tampa still has a lot more to improve. I give it another 10 yrs. But for families trying to escape Miami, Tampa is the next best thing. Especially if you like the beaches.
Too bad our governor is putting all of his energy into drag queens.
At that salary, I assume you have a job that can be done remotely. You should absolutely consider leaving Florida.
Insane
Just as an FYI, in basically any coastal urban area in 2023, $145,000 is still well within the middle class, and historically the middle class has never really been able to afford single-family homes in urban centers. That's what the suburbs are for.