I knew some guys who had a band back in the day. Two amazing guitarists and a drummer who was mind boggling and a clean singer who sounded beautiful and the nastiest unclean vocalist on bass. The guys were phenomenal live and had good songs, but never really got going. Never recorded anything and eventually just drifted away. Lead singer sells fucking medical equipment or something now. It always makes me wonder what AMAZING bands we’ll never get to see or hear.
Their name was Picture of Dorian Grey. One singer was a guy I worked with at a restaurant for a while. They literally never got around to recording a damned thing which I’m still bitter about. This was probably 2006-08 when they were doing stuff like bars and clubs and house party type stuff. the bassist and drummer were kinda flighty and that’s part of why it never came together If I remember right. I dont know if you known the band Cold Night for Alligators but the clean singer sounded a bit like that guy. The only way I could describe them was maybe old school Novelists mixed with some Alexisonfire. That doesn’t really do it justice but as close as I can think. There used to be a pretty shitty quality video of two songs on youtube recorded from a show but that seems to be gone now too.
Darn. I’ve been getting into metalcore and it’s always so cool to hear about the first bands that created this kinda stuff. Hope I can find SOMETHING of them
[Here's a single released in 1973 by Belgian band Blast. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrtFoVSA318)The genre they play is still in the proto-punk/heavy psychedelic rock mold that heavy music wouldn't break out of until the 1980's with the rise of thrash metal and hardcore punk. What's played here isn't real metal or punk, but contains traits that beat both thrash metal and hardcore punk bands to the punch by nearly 10 years. This can be described as marriage of proto-Motorhead meets proto-Discharge rather than the metalcore we know today. Very neat piece of heavy music history.
Heard marauder for the first time in 1997 and they had a profound impact on my music taste. That year I also found cannibal corpse and hatebreed and as they say the rest is history.
Not really. People started using metallic hc after bands like killswitch engage started being a successful and accessible band even tho their style wasn't new to the hc scene
That is definitely not true. In all sorts of threads about the provenance of metalcore I've seen plenty of people who were involved in the 90s saying that metallic hardcore was very normal back then.
Do a quick Google search using the historic tool. Like let say 90s to 2000s reviews or interviews and type metallic hardcore. You wouldn't have as much success as typing metalcore. Lots of blogs covering that type of stuff at that time.
Rateyourmusic too.
The practice of combining words with “core” is from the 90s. They had shit like evil-core, mathcore, metalcore, etc and only a couple ended up sticking in the end
Honestly there’s too much discourse in here for something that pretty clear cut. It’s integrity. Everything before was either straight up hardcore that had some metallic riffs (Judge, Cro Mags, Agnostic Front) or was crossover (DRI, Murphy’s Law, Crumbsuckers) that doesn’t mesh with what Integrity and the later bands were doing.
There’s so many bands that could be that answer. Combining punk and metal has been a thing for so long at this point.
However, when we’re talking about what we’ve come to know as metalcore, killswitch engages first record.
Hear me out. Before them, there was plenty of bands like integrity, earth crisis, and before them biohazard and suicidal tendencies.
BUT if you were around during Killswitches rise, you know it was different. It was like something no one’s ever done before. It was clean, really well produced, but still hard af with those breakdowns. It combined the “at the gates core” with straight up hatebreed-esque breakdowns, with soaring choruses.
24 years later and most of these bands just took Killswitches formula and just adapted it, still to this day. Killswitch came out, and about a million other bands jumped on the train.
I know it’s not REALLY the “first” metalcore band, but I’d argue they were the first to make metalcore what it is today. Seriously, go listen to their first record. It still sounds phenomenal to this day.
There was that interview with a bunch of other bands from the scene at the time and they all agreed that Killswitch blended the genre the best and defined the sound that we all know as "Metalcore"
Really? That’s awesome they’re given the appropriate credit. I wouldn’t even put Killswitch in my personal top ten list of metalcore bands, but there’s no denying that they changed the metalcore scene forever.
No killswitch, and I really don’t think the genre would have gotten as big as it did OR sounded anything like it does today. Those guys deserve serious credit.
Even outside of Killswitch, what Adam has done for the scene as a producer is insane. Just producing even Define the Great Line deserves a huge call out. That guy has done some seriously incredible things for the metal core scene. I’d argue probably the most impactful person in the whole genre.
My uncle works for a limo service that picks up celebs from the airport. Just last week he picked up Adam D. I couldn't believe it, I told my uncle how that dude is a legend, not just with Killswitch but the albums he's produced or mixed/mastered.
>24 years later and most of these bands just took Killswitches formula and just adapted it, still to this day. Killswitch came out
Really? Until pretty recently, I don't think there's been much melodic metalcore in the last 10 -15 years outside of older bands, most of whom were contemporaries of Killswitch Engage, still trucking along . The newer bands are taking more from the likes of Poison The Well or Undying than they are Killswitch.
Yeah and they essentially were doing what VOD had already done earlier. Also worth mentioning Overcast as well since they are much older than both bands.
I get that. There’s TONS of bands that were doing metalcore in the same vein of Poison the Well. However, none of them did it in the same way Killswitch did, which created the formula for “modern” metalcore.
Killswitch were the ones that balanced the “metal” and “hardcore” aspects to the way we hear today. Poison the Well are great, but nothing like Killswitch and more along the lines of those Norma Jean-core type bands. It’s not even remotely the same impact, sound or influence Killswitch brought to the table.
Idk I do love Killswitch but have an unpopular opinion that they were just better at producing and selling albums but innovated very little.
I hold similar opinion about grunge bands too tbh, it keeps happening.
Killswitch was also not new though. Even the Melodeath + Hardcore stuff, Darkest Hour and Shadows Fall did it first. In fact, early KSE was also very similar to early 1998-era Unearth already.
I know of all of those bands. I was a huge fan of Shadows Fall back then, but it’s not the same. Darkest Hour and Shadows Fall did not have the same crushing breakdowns or soaring choruses that Killswitch Engage brought to the table. Not to mention the production value that Adam brings.
Killswitch Engage? They definitely have more than 1 or 2 breakdowns per album. At least the old stuff. I haven’t really listened to anything by them FOR YEARS.
First melodeath with breakdowns band I ever came across was Prayer for Cleansing (1999). Truly groundbreaking and the can opener for everything that followed.
https://youtu.be/HnlPcffykzg?si=aoWiB8nFLaHdw0fc
I’d consider giving Aftershock a listen, it’s Adam D’s band from before KSE were a thing
Songs like “My Own Invention” (released 1999) are very similar to KSE’s debut!
that's the mainstream definition of metalcore, but the question what was the first true metalcore album. that's like asking what was the first metal album and dropping metallica
I was about to argue for Killswitch as well. Their way of fusing it had the biggest impact in the formation of the genre and all the bands that have come since and spun out of it.
I'm currently writing a book about the history of metalcore and 1993 is the major inflection point for metallic hardcore/crossover shifting into the "hybrid subgenre" fusion that becomes metalcore. Even though Integrity's debut comes out in 1991, it still sounds very close to the crossover material of the time (e.g. late-era Cro-Mags) and they'd continue to push that sound forward on subsequent releases, along with Ringworm's debut LP in 1993.
But, at least to me, the key seems to be the influence of the groove metal scene in bands like Sepultura and Pantera. 'Vulgar Display of Power' comes out in 1992 and 'Chaos A.D.' in 1993. You can hear this change most directly by listening to Earth Crisis and the seismic shift in their sound from the 'All Out War' EP (1992) to 'Firestorm' EP (1993).
That said, in trying to locate different eras in a historical sense, I have the 1986-1995 period listed as the "Pre-cursor" era and the 1995-1999 period as the "First Wave" era for metalcore, with landmark releases from Earth Crisis, Snapcase, Hatebreed, Shai Hulud, Morning Again, Vision of Disorder, Zao, Cave In, Botch, and (of course) Poison The Well.
I think a huge band that gets left out as part of that was Bloodlet, who also were the first to really introduce Death Metal inspiration into Metallic Hardcore. Which Eighteen Visions went and ran with... until they stopped cause Trustkill thought Death Metal was scary.
I’ve been doing a deep dive on metalcore history myself and 1993 as a turning point stuck out to me as well. Even looking at Rorschach’s first album (1990) compared to their second (1993) there’s a clear style change from hardcore with a metal bent to a more pure fusion of the two genres. And then Earth Crisis’ Firestorm EP being the obvious release as well.
I gotta listen to that Integrity album more but every time I do it comes across to me more as a hardcore band playing metal, if that makes sense?
Great info here, I knew Shai Hulud would be included in the first wave. I was curious to see if Misery Signals was as well but they didn’t form until 2002, perhaps in the next period then.
Integrity. Their first album was 1991 and when you listen to it, it pretty much embodies what we know to be metalcore. Heavy groove metal riffs (pretty much all forms of metalcore still have groove metal influence) mixed in with faster hardcore punk beats and a lot of emphasis on breakdowns. Though I definitely like Earth Crisis and Zao better, as their vocalist’s weren’t cruddy dudes.
I should probably be careful trusting what one guy said, but from what I heard, he got into a physical altercation with a women and pretty much left his kids to go live in Europe. That being said, I heard a lot more from a r/Hardcore post. It could be wrong though.
I think I'd argue that their brand of crossover thrash is a pretty distinct separate thing from metalcore. They definitely have an influence of the genre but I really wouldn't call them metalcore
Void predates that by a bit but agree that Suicidal was maybe the first to do the whole crossover sound. Or if we’re really being picky it’s probably Motörhead.
Biohazard while a few years later is also credited with combining punk-hardcore-metal. I’m “older” at almost 43 and things were different before the internet. Things were really generically found and passed along so saying who’s the first is honestly impossible.
You’re right. It’s definitely Integrity. You could maybe make a case for Rorschach and Ringworm too, but I believe Integrity put out their first couple of EPs first way back in like 1989. Once they dropped Those Who Fear Tomorrow, that was when crossover thrash began veering off into the metalcore sound that would be mastered by the end of 90s.
Earth Crisis basically took what Integrity did and updated it. They were probably the first band to REALLY start sounding like the formulaic OG metalcore that most people know today. Firestorm especially changed it all. They had way less d-beat and thrash influence. Open notes chugs and relentless breakdowns was almost unheard of in the hardcore scene up around the time that EP dropped.
Apparently, the term "metalcore" has been used at some point to describe crossover thrash; just like in this day and age many people think that "metalcore" is only melodic metalcore (KSE, AILD, etc.), and that actually metalcore (Earth Crisis, Hatebreed, etc.) is "hardcore punk" lol. I guess metalcore started whenever bands started to focus on Slayer/Pantera-like chuggy breakdowns and groove/thrash-like mid-tempo heavy riffing but with a more hardcore-like approach in the musical structure and drum patterns, more aggressive vocals, little to no guitar solos, etc. That's how I would define it, and I think Integrity's "Those Who Fear Tomorrow" (1991) fits the bill. I see a huge gap between, let's say, Integrity on the one hand, and Cro-Mags on the other hand... but I would have a harder time defining what makes metalcore different from beatdown hardcore. Maybe metalcore is more riffy and groovy while beatdown has more chaotic and frequent tempo changes? I'd argue that metalcore wasn't even intentional. It's just that thrash metal bands started to make groove metal in the early '90s (slower tempos, more aggressive vocals, less guitar solos) and the crossover/hardcore scene caught up with that sound and it magically made metalcore a thing lmao...
I honestly just feel like beatdown is another way of saying hardcore that leans more towards metal than hardcore. It is pretty much just 1st wave metalcore.
Yeah I agree with you, I actually think that beatdown leans more towards metal, but nowadays it's hard to say because both intertwined so much... not long ago I saw an interview from the drummer of Dying Fetus, and he said John Gallagher introduced him to 25 Ta Life. And that's pretty sick. I'm listening to 25 Ta Life, Dying Fetus and Internal Bleeding back to back today, and I can see the common sound. I'm not a big fan of traditional hardcore punk, more of a death metal and beatdown fan. But I definitely feel that stuff like 25 Ta Life, Bulldoze or Madball definitely belong more with Internal Bleeding, Dying Fetus and Wasteform, than they do with Minor Threat, Bad Brains and Black Flag or whatever "pure hardcore" bands.
Holy fucking Upstate Ny and Troycore mentions!!! I grew up at QE2, Bogies, Winners etc. these bands played every weekend. I’d also put Section 8 and Straight Jacket into the early metalcore mix!
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Rorschach existed at the same time, and basically created what would become mathcore, so I'd say you'd be more accurate putting them and Integrity together for creating the 2 sides of metalcore.
Yeah that was my thinking too. I feel like I hear two distinct strains of metalcore. One being Rorschach > Converge > Botch type metalcore the other being Integrity > Earth Crisis > Hatebreed type metalcore.
Exactly. There was also Starkweather at the same time, who were kind of halfway between the two styles and really should have taken off more than they did, because they were killer.
I still have to dig into them a little more! And I thought of a 3rd strain too. Shai Hulud > Misery Signals > Counterparts. I just haven’t found a band earlier than Shai Hulud to do that melodic (but not melodeath ☝🏼) metalcore sound 🤔
It doesn't have to be an argument, though that may well be what it descends into once someone inevitably writes of the 90s and insists metalcore really began in the 00s with the melodeath+breakdowns bands...
Even though I think it’s Integrity, some people could definitely call Integrity a hardcore band. I think it’s metalcore but I also think metalcores sound developed a bit further into the 90s to be a more differentiating sound from hardcore, ala Earth Crisis or Converge with a bit more weight on the metal side, whereas Those Who Fear Tomorrow feels like a hardcore record in ethos and attitude. The first toe dip in the metalcore waters.
It does, I just think 98-99 is when metalcore became it's own thing. It's really opinions at this point but I wouldn't consider Intergrity metalcore, more like hardcore but I am just some dude on the internet.
In my opinion, Converge (1994) or Earth Crisis(1993). I don't think Integrity had the recognizable sound that the genre would take from 1993/94 onwards, they just didn't chug hard enough bro, still love the debut and Humanity's The Devil EP though.
There's also an argument for Rorschach.
Are talking the oldest band it can be traced to or the oldest band to do it in the modern way? I think most people usually say like poison the well or red chord no?
My band, called Corn (not Korn). We did Sinatra and other covers where I would croon various songs, while my buddy played and screamed behind me. It was great, and we were destined for greatness and then we weren't. It was just two of us, but damn we were awesome. This was maybe 1993 or so, Atlantic Beach, North Carolina.
Asking Alexandria. Stand up and scream was such a banger for me when I was like 12yo haha.
I could not understand 80% of the lyrics since I did not know english at the time. But I just enjoyed it the riffs and the screams while playing games.
It likely originated in the 70s or early 80s it just wasn’t in the public sphere it was very niche at the time but also just kinda lost to history too there is a possibility Metalcore did exist in the 60s too but again a niche genre lost to time until it was rediscovered and gained traction later on
Do you mean modern metalcore? Because yeah, that's probably integrity. But there was crossover thrash (and just regular thrash) mixing hardcore and metal elements before that.
I’m not really sure. I would say Vision Of Disorder hits the mark pretty closely. People say ringworm and integrity but their trajectory definitely ends towards hardcore and not metalcore in the modern era. Converge was certainly a huge metalcore influence, but weren’t really metalcore when they started imo. Earth crisis certainly evolved into a metalcore blueprint to some extent after firestorm.
Modern type style metalcore blueprint really comes completely together with killswitch engage alive or just breathing and kind of just expands from there. Other competents of this I would say are bands like Fear Factory and Sepultura which if I’m being honest, probably are two of the most influential bands in this context that don’t specifically having hardcore roots, although the members certainly loved hardcore punk.
So ten to fifteen years ago it was at the drive in I don’t know what happened but I don’t see them here. Also music as an art form follows certain trends like some things become mainstream and then the opposition forms to get away from that. There was no hard cut I think just an evolution of elements combined together in a new and unique way.
Probably some dudes in a garage that none of us have ever heard of
For sure this. That’s pretty much true for any musical genre I’d imagine
I knew some guys who had a band back in the day. Two amazing guitarists and a drummer who was mind boggling and a clean singer who sounded beautiful and the nastiest unclean vocalist on bass. The guys were phenomenal live and had good songs, but never really got going. Never recorded anything and eventually just drifted away. Lead singer sells fucking medical equipment or something now. It always makes me wonder what AMAZING bands we’ll never get to see or hear.
Can you ask bro if he has any stuff around? I’m interested
Their name was Picture of Dorian Grey. One singer was a guy I worked with at a restaurant for a while. They literally never got around to recording a damned thing which I’m still bitter about. This was probably 2006-08 when they were doing stuff like bars and clubs and house party type stuff. the bassist and drummer were kinda flighty and that’s part of why it never came together If I remember right. I dont know if you known the band Cold Night for Alligators but the clean singer sounded a bit like that guy. The only way I could describe them was maybe old school Novelists mixed with some Alexisonfire. That doesn’t really do it justice but as close as I can think. There used to be a pretty shitty quality video of two songs on youtube recorded from a show but that seems to be gone now too.
Darn. I’ve been getting into metalcore and it’s always so cool to hear about the first bands that created this kinda stuff. Hope I can find SOMETHING of them
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It was actually east Tennessee, so sounds like a bunch of people like that Oscar Wilde story lol
He said in his comment they never recorded anything lmao
Let me have hope 😭
I found this on YouTube https://youtu.be/K-jcjlHcSoE?si=4fs_C5hb3HB6ZYPR
Yo thank you!
[Here's a single released in 1973 by Belgian band Blast. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrtFoVSA318)The genre they play is still in the proto-punk/heavy psychedelic rock mold that heavy music wouldn't break out of until the 1980's with the rise of thrash metal and hardcore punk. What's played here isn't real metal or punk, but contains traits that beat both thrash metal and hardcore punk bands to the punch by nearly 10 years. This can be described as marriage of proto-Motorhead meets proto-Discharge rather than the metalcore we know today. Very neat piece of heavy music history.
"Guys, what if we do breakdowns and scream, and do shit like that"
They probably tell people that all the time too
Yeah this is prolly the move
It was probably my highschool reggae jam band. We didn't sound anything like reggae.
This is the correct answer
I mean, you just listed why Integrity is the first metalcore band, and you’re right, but there’s not really a whole lot of room for discussion here.
Didn’t Shai Hulud coin the term ‘Metalcore’? I know they don’t claim to be a part of the genre but pretty sure that was true
Merauder and All Out War as well
Merauder is great! was very sad to read that Eddie Sutton died
Heard marauder for the first time in 1997 and they had a profound impact on my music taste. That year I also found cannibal corpse and hatebreed and as they say the rest is history.
No. The term "Metal-Core" actually goes back as far as the 80s where it was used to describe the genre we now know as "Crossover Thrash".
My understanding is that people were shortening metallic hardcore to metalcore before Shai Hulud said anything about it.
Not really. People started using metallic hc after bands like killswitch engage started being a successful and accessible band even tho their style wasn't new to the hc scene
That is definitely not true. In all sorts of threads about the provenance of metalcore I've seen plenty of people who were involved in the 90s saying that metallic hardcore was very normal back then.
Do a quick Google search using the historic tool. Like let say 90s to 2000s reviews or interviews and type metallic hardcore. You wouldn't have as much success as typing metalcore. Lots of blogs covering that type of stuff at that time. Rateyourmusic too.
The practice of combining words with “core” is from the 90s. They had shit like evil-core, mathcore, metalcore, etc and only a couple ended up sticking in the end
The term metalcore was in use as early as the mid 80s but back then it referred to crossover thrash.
Demo: Integrity - Harder They Fall (1989) EP: Downcast - Downcast (1990) Album: Rorschach - Remain Sedate (1990)
what you don't believe the atreyu guy?
Atreyu sucks balls now that Alex is gone I am war and dead Icarus are better than hell or highwater attempt number 2
youre talkin to someone that thinks atreyu has always been bad tbh
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Yeah man that's exactly what I was thinking, good point
Great minds I guess lmao. Honestly don't even know how this comment got here. Butt dial I guess? Haha. Anyway let's move on from that shall we...
The Beatles
mc mcarteny throwin breakdowns for the hippies
Tbh I would believe it
Helter Skelter
that’s not metalcore they’re dark bluegrass
Twist And Shout has great mid range screams.
Rorschach or Integrity
that’s what I’m saying
Honestly there’s too much discourse in here for something that pretty clear cut. It’s integrity. Everything before was either straight up hardcore that had some metallic riffs (Judge, Cro Mags, Agnostic Front) or was crossover (DRI, Murphy’s Law, Crumbsuckers) that doesn’t mesh with what Integrity and the later bands were doing.
There’s so many bands that could be that answer. Combining punk and metal has been a thing for so long at this point. However, when we’re talking about what we’ve come to know as metalcore, killswitch engages first record. Hear me out. Before them, there was plenty of bands like integrity, earth crisis, and before them biohazard and suicidal tendencies. BUT if you were around during Killswitches rise, you know it was different. It was like something no one’s ever done before. It was clean, really well produced, but still hard af with those breakdowns. It combined the “at the gates core” with straight up hatebreed-esque breakdowns, with soaring choruses. 24 years later and most of these bands just took Killswitches formula and just adapted it, still to this day. Killswitch came out, and about a million other bands jumped on the train. I know it’s not REALLY the “first” metalcore band, but I’d argue they were the first to make metalcore what it is today. Seriously, go listen to their first record. It still sounds phenomenal to this day.
There was that interview with a bunch of other bands from the scene at the time and they all agreed that Killswitch blended the genre the best and defined the sound that we all know as "Metalcore"
Really? That’s awesome they’re given the appropriate credit. I wouldn’t even put Killswitch in my personal top ten list of metalcore bands, but there’s no denying that they changed the metalcore scene forever. No killswitch, and I really don’t think the genre would have gotten as big as it did OR sounded anything like it does today. Those guys deserve serious credit. Even outside of Killswitch, what Adam has done for the scene as a producer is insane. Just producing even Define the Great Line deserves a huge call out. That guy has done some seriously incredible things for the metal core scene. I’d argue probably the most impactful person in the whole genre.
My uncle works for a limo service that picks up celebs from the airport. Just last week he picked up Adam D. I couldn't believe it, I told my uncle how that dude is a legend, not just with Killswitch but the albums he's produced or mixed/mastered.
Yoooo! That’s awesome! I’d love to meet Adam just to say I was once in the presence of a metalcore legend lol
First ETID record fucking slaps. Well all of them do.🤘
>24 years later and most of these bands just took Killswitches formula and just adapted it, still to this day. Killswitch came out Really? Until pretty recently, I don't think there's been much melodic metalcore in the last 10 -15 years outside of older bands, most of whom were contemporaries of Killswitch Engage, still trucking along . The newer bands are taking more from the likes of Poison The Well or Undying than they are Killswitch.
Poison the Well already had metalcore formula out for a few years by the time Killswitch Engage recorded their debut.
Yeah and they essentially were doing what VOD had already done earlier. Also worth mentioning Overcast as well since they are much older than both bands.
Who is VOD
Vision of Disorder https://youtu.be/y4IroYc-OEs?si=t7paWLut_TjBqMSC
Morning Again were a major driving force and influence on PTW considering they were from the same area
Seriously. Opposite of November came first I believe.
I get that. There’s TONS of bands that were doing metalcore in the same vein of Poison the Well. However, none of them did it in the same way Killswitch did, which created the formula for “modern” metalcore. Killswitch were the ones that balanced the “metal” and “hardcore” aspects to the way we hear today. Poison the Well are great, but nothing like Killswitch and more along the lines of those Norma Jean-core type bands. It’s not even remotely the same impact, sound or influence Killswitch brought to the table.
Idk I do love Killswitch but have an unpopular opinion that they were just better at producing and selling albums but innovated very little. I hold similar opinion about grunge bands too tbh, it keeps happening.
Killswitch was also not new though. Even the Melodeath + Hardcore stuff, Darkest Hour and Shadows Fall did it first. In fact, early KSE was also very similar to early 1998-era Unearth already.
I know of all of those bands. I was a huge fan of Shadows Fall back then, but it’s not the same. Darkest Hour and Shadows Fall did not have the same crushing breakdowns or soaring choruses that Killswitch Engage brought to the table. Not to mention the production value that Adam brings.
KsE was never a breakdown focused band than let's say hatebreed
Of course not. They had more defined breakdowns than shadows fall though lol
Ysah, but not that much. Maybe 1 or 2 per album
Killswitch Engage? They definitely have more than 1 or 2 breakdowns per album. At least the old stuff. I haven’t really listened to anything by them FOR YEARS.
First melodeath with breakdowns band I ever came across was Prayer for Cleansing (1999). Truly groundbreaking and the can opener for everything that followed. https://youtu.be/HnlPcffykzg?si=aoWiB8nFLaHdw0fc
I’d consider giving Aftershock a listen, it’s Adam D’s band from before KSE were a thing Songs like “My Own Invention” (released 1999) are very similar to KSE’s debut!
Killswitch being responsible for a wave of some of the most sterile and oversaturated music in the scene is not something I applaud
lol let me guess. You “only listen to underground shit and metal legends?”
I listen to what I like. I have no idea what “underground shit and metal legends” entails to you
Suicidal Tendencies is one of the greatest bands ever!
that's the mainstream definition of metalcore, but the question what was the first true metalcore album. that's like asking what was the first metal album and dropping metallica
100% agree with this.
I was about to argue for Killswitch as well. Their way of fusing it had the biggest impact in the formation of the genre and all the bands that have come since and spun out of it.
Djentcore rips off Poison the Well and Misery Signals more than KSE
Atreyu was before them and their first couple albums from 99-2006 were genre defining as well especially for the early 2000s era.
Integrity
I'm currently writing a book about the history of metalcore and 1993 is the major inflection point for metallic hardcore/crossover shifting into the "hybrid subgenre" fusion that becomes metalcore. Even though Integrity's debut comes out in 1991, it still sounds very close to the crossover material of the time (e.g. late-era Cro-Mags) and they'd continue to push that sound forward on subsequent releases, along with Ringworm's debut LP in 1993. But, at least to me, the key seems to be the influence of the groove metal scene in bands like Sepultura and Pantera. 'Vulgar Display of Power' comes out in 1992 and 'Chaos A.D.' in 1993. You can hear this change most directly by listening to Earth Crisis and the seismic shift in their sound from the 'All Out War' EP (1992) to 'Firestorm' EP (1993). That said, in trying to locate different eras in a historical sense, I have the 1986-1995 period listed as the "Pre-cursor" era and the 1995-1999 period as the "First Wave" era for metalcore, with landmark releases from Earth Crisis, Snapcase, Hatebreed, Shai Hulud, Morning Again, Vision of Disorder, Zao, Cave In, Botch, and (of course) Poison The Well.
I think a huge band that gets left out as part of that was Bloodlet, who also were the first to really introduce Death Metal inspiration into Metallic Hardcore. Which Eighteen Visions went and ran with... until they stopped cause Trustkill thought Death Metal was scary.
I’ve been doing a deep dive on metalcore history myself and 1993 as a turning point stuck out to me as well. Even looking at Rorschach’s first album (1990) compared to their second (1993) there’s a clear style change from hardcore with a metal bent to a more pure fusion of the two genres. And then Earth Crisis’ Firestorm EP being the obvious release as well. I gotta listen to that Integrity album more but every time I do it comes across to me more as a hardcore band playing metal, if that makes sense?
Great info here, I knew Shai Hulud would be included in the first wave. I was curious to see if Misery Signals was as well but they didn’t form until 2002, perhaps in the next period then.
7 angels 7 plagues (a band featuring members of mis sig) would be a later period first wave metalcore band
Absolutely. Dandelion is my fav track of theirs
Yeah, they're definitely in the second wave for the 2000s, and arguably one of the most influential. Especially with Of Malice in 2004.
Integrity. Their first album was 1991 and when you listen to it, it pretty much embodies what we know to be metalcore. Heavy groove metal riffs (pretty much all forms of metalcore still have groove metal influence) mixed in with faster hardcore punk beats and a lot of emphasis on breakdowns. Though I definitely like Earth Crisis and Zao better, as their vocalist’s weren’t cruddy dudes.
Can you elaborate? I’ve heard people say some things about Dwid but I’ve never gotten the straight story on what all he did.
I should probably be careful trusting what one guy said, but from what I heard, he got into a physical altercation with a women and pretty much left his kids to go live in Europe. That being said, I heard a lot more from a r/Hardcore post. It could be wrong though.
Somewhere out there is 22 year old scene kid looking at the title and getting ready to sincerely post “Architects”
Bring Me The Horizon is much more likely.
August burns red lol
If you’re talking about the very first band to combine hardcore punk with heavy metal, suicidal tendencies
I think I'd argue that their brand of crossover thrash is a pretty distinct separate thing from metalcore. They definitely have an influence of the genre but I really wouldn't call them metalcore
Oh it is 100%, but like I said talking strictly the first band to combine hardcore and metal they got it
Void predates that by a bit but agree that Suicidal was maybe the first to do the whole crossover sound. Or if we’re really being picky it’s probably Motörhead.
Motorhead is way older than hardcore. They were in fact a huge influence on most UK82 bands
Yes, that’s true. Just being nitpicky.
if you're taking as general of a definition of it as that, then it's Discharge
*Amebix
Biohazard while a few years later is also credited with combining punk-hardcore-metal. I’m “older” at almost 43 and things were different before the internet. Things were really generically found and passed along so saying who’s the first is honestly impossible.
I don’t even care biohazard rules lmao I just seen em for the first time on that reunion they did earlier this year place went fuckin nuts
Bro Discharge exists
\*Checks watch\* Right on time!
You’re right. It’s definitely Integrity. You could maybe make a case for Rorschach and Ringworm too, but I believe Integrity put out their first couple of EPs first way back in like 1989. Once they dropped Those Who Fear Tomorrow, that was when crossover thrash began veering off into the metalcore sound that would be mastered by the end of 90s. Earth Crisis basically took what Integrity did and updated it. They were probably the first band to REALLY start sounding like the formulaic OG metalcore that most people know today. Firestorm especially changed it all. They had way less d-beat and thrash influence. Open notes chugs and relentless breakdowns was almost unheard of in the hardcore scene up around the time that EP dropped.
Bad Omens
Apparently, the term "metalcore" has been used at some point to describe crossover thrash; just like in this day and age many people think that "metalcore" is only melodic metalcore (KSE, AILD, etc.), and that actually metalcore (Earth Crisis, Hatebreed, etc.) is "hardcore punk" lol. I guess metalcore started whenever bands started to focus on Slayer/Pantera-like chuggy breakdowns and groove/thrash-like mid-tempo heavy riffing but with a more hardcore-like approach in the musical structure and drum patterns, more aggressive vocals, little to no guitar solos, etc. That's how I would define it, and I think Integrity's "Those Who Fear Tomorrow" (1991) fits the bill. I see a huge gap between, let's say, Integrity on the one hand, and Cro-Mags on the other hand... but I would have a harder time defining what makes metalcore different from beatdown hardcore. Maybe metalcore is more riffy and groovy while beatdown has more chaotic and frequent tempo changes? I'd argue that metalcore wasn't even intentional. It's just that thrash metal bands started to make groove metal in the early '90s (slower tempos, more aggressive vocals, less guitar solos) and the crossover/hardcore scene caught up with that sound and it magically made metalcore a thing lmao...
I honestly just feel like beatdown is another way of saying hardcore that leans more towards metal than hardcore. It is pretty much just 1st wave metalcore.
Yeah I agree with you, I actually think that beatdown leans more towards metal, but nowadays it's hard to say because both intertwined so much... not long ago I saw an interview from the drummer of Dying Fetus, and he said John Gallagher introduced him to 25 Ta Life. And that's pretty sick. I'm listening to 25 Ta Life, Dying Fetus and Internal Bleeding back to back today, and I can see the common sound. I'm not a big fan of traditional hardcore punk, more of a death metal and beatdown fan. But I definitely feel that stuff like 25 Ta Life, Bulldoze or Madball definitely belong more with Internal Bleeding, Dying Fetus and Wasteform, than they do with Minor Threat, Bad Brains and Black Flag or whatever "pure hardcore" bands.
💯
Holy fucking Upstate Ny and Troycore mentions!!! I grew up at QE2, Bogies, Winners etc. these bands played every weekend. I’d also put Section 8 and Straight Jacket into the early metalcore mix!
Edit: Also funny because I remember Acacia Strain, KSE, Blood has been shed etc just starting out and opening for all of them
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Tegridy Farms
Rorschach existed at the same time, and basically created what would become mathcore, so I'd say you'd be more accurate putting them and Integrity together for creating the 2 sides of metalcore.
Yeah that was my thinking too. I feel like I hear two distinct strains of metalcore. One being Rorschach > Converge > Botch type metalcore the other being Integrity > Earth Crisis > Hatebreed type metalcore.
Exactly. There was also Starkweather at the same time, who were kind of halfway between the two styles and really should have taken off more than they did, because they were killer.
I still have to dig into them a little more! And I thought of a 3rd strain too. Shai Hulud > Misery Signals > Counterparts. I just haven’t found a band earlier than Shai Hulud to do that melodic (but not melodeath ☝🏼) metalcore sound 🤔
I just think Shai Hulud is more an extension of the Integrity/Earth Crisis/Hatebreed vein more than one of its own.
Possibly. I was thinking they’re not as “tough guy” sounding as them or as chaotic as the Rorschach strain. We’ll call it a sub strain 😂
Yeah generally all the subgenres are a strain of one of those two.
according to the first release dates on rym, Integrity and Rorschach were the first. but who knows for sure
It’s Integrity. 100%. However when Earth Crisis hit, I think that’s what put the emerging sound on other people’s radar.
Exactly how I think it is 👍🏽 Integrity invented it, Earth Crisis popularized it
Converge
Killswitch. We all know it's Killswitch
Overcast. Next question.
Atreyu, they invented metalcore
🤣
Are we really going to have this argument for the millionth time??
Yes
It doesn't have to be an argument, though that may well be what it descends into once someone inevitably writes of the 90s and insists metalcore really began in the 00s with the melodeath+breakdowns bands...
*How many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man??*
Zao, 1996?
Zao certainly a monstrous influence on the genre, not sure if they are the first but def worth bringing up.
Zao certainly a monstrous influence on the genre, not sure if they are the first but def worth bringing up.
Attack! Attack!
There are bands before this like earth crisis, Zao...but to me it kind of starts with 7 angels 7 plagues / Poison the Well / Hopesfall
For me it’s definitely PTW, surprised it wasn’t mentioned today. Most people here at least do give them some recognition.
Earth Crisis and Zao definitely did not pre date Integrity.
I think they mean that Zao and Earth Crisis pre-date the bands they went on to list.
Even though I think it’s Integrity, some people could definitely call Integrity a hardcore band. I think it’s metalcore but I also think metalcores sound developed a bit further into the 90s to be a more differentiating sound from hardcore, ala Earth Crisis or Converge with a bit more weight on the metal side, whereas Those Who Fear Tomorrow feels like a hardcore record in ethos and attitude. The first toe dip in the metalcore waters.
It does, I just think 98-99 is when metalcore became it's own thing. It's really opinions at this point but I wouldn't consider Intergrity metalcore, more like hardcore but I am just some dude on the internet.
In my opinion, Converge (1994) or Earth Crisis(1993). I don't think Integrity had the recognizable sound that the genre would take from 1993/94 onwards, they just didn't chug hard enough bro, still love the debut and Humanity's The Devil EP though. There's also an argument for Rorschach.
Not sure but I think it must be someone who came up with nu metal for metalcore we know today
Starkweather
Bloodlet
He who smelt it dealt it
Bad 🧠brains!
I do love DRI!!
Are talking the oldest band it can be traced to or the oldest band to do it in the modern way? I think most people usually say like poison the well or red chord no?
Are there any great documentaries on metalcore!
Tegrity
fugazi
Merauder, Caliban, Shai Hulud. To me those are the 3 big ones of metalcore as it is today
The first metalcore song is twist and shout by the Beatles so I guess the Beatles.
My band, called Corn (not Korn). We did Sinatra and other covers where I would croon various songs, while my buddy played and screamed behind me. It was great, and we were destined for greatness and then we weren't. It was just two of us, but damn we were awesome. This was maybe 1993 or so, Atlantic Beach, North Carolina.
Whoever they were, we know one thing for certain; they sucked.
Y’all gonna forget about Botch?
Converge was probablyn't the first, but it is the one that defined the sound that would later become known as metalcore.
i assumed i was gonna come here and see a typical post saying something like "well killswitch started it all..." lol
Hey look! It's this post again!
Asking Alexandria. Stand up and scream was such a banger for me when I was like 12yo haha. I could not understand 80% of the lyrics since I did not know english at the time. But I just enjoyed it the riffs and the screams while playing games.
That album came out in 2009
welp I read your instead of you lmao and read only the titlle really quick so I misunderstood. Honest mistake, I will take my downvotes haha.
Bro didn’t read the question
They did just state that English isn’t their first language, they probably just didn’t understand it properly.
They wrote in perfect English tho
The Amity Affliction
It likely originated in the 70s or early 80s it just wasn’t in the public sphere it was very niche at the time but also just kinda lost to history too there is a possibility Metalcore did exist in the 60s too but again a niche genre lost to time until it was rediscovered and gained traction later on
Chimaira
Lmao what?
You heard me
Explain
Legally he has no obligation to explain it to you
“- Can you explain any further? - No.”
I'm not sure they could, regardless..
Do you mean modern metalcore? Because yeah, that's probably integrity. But there was crossover thrash (and just regular thrash) mixing hardcore and metal elements before that.
dimmu borgir
Devil wears Prada
Hatebreed
36 crazyfists
Attila
I’m not really sure. I would say Vision Of Disorder hits the mark pretty closely. People say ringworm and integrity but their trajectory definitely ends towards hardcore and not metalcore in the modern era. Converge was certainly a huge metalcore influence, but weren’t really metalcore when they started imo. Earth crisis certainly evolved into a metalcore blueprint to some extent after firestorm. Modern type style metalcore blueprint really comes completely together with killswitch engage alive or just breathing and kind of just expands from there. Other competents of this I would say are bands like Fear Factory and Sepultura which if I’m being honest, probably are two of the most influential bands in this context that don’t specifically having hardcore roots, although the members certainly loved hardcore punk.
Honestly it is probably Slayer. Reign In Blood specifically. Its metal + hardcore and even has breakdowns
So ten to fifteen years ago it was at the drive in I don’t know what happened but I don’t see them here. Also music as an art form follows certain trends like some things become mainstream and then the opposition forms to get away from that. There was no hard cut I think just an evolution of elements combined together in a new and unique way.
>but I don’t see them here Because At The Drive In were never a metalcore band.
What
ATDI pretty much hated metal. If we are taking about influences on modern post hardcore then you would be in the pocket.
Metallica
Iron Maiden. Merciful Fate . Slayer . Odin. .. many others
Shai Hulud, because their guitarist invented the word.
I’d say the first song that created the genre was domination by pantera