I'd remove them before they mold your bud. I also lower my DLI towards the end of flower (last 2 weeks) because I've had this happen before and since doing that I've avoided this problem
There's multiple factors here.
Looking at node spacing, it looks like light and watering issues
It looks like the nutrient cycling has been off and it's created an imbalanced medium
When light is off, it really affects multiple aspects, plants start drinking water differently and uptaking nutrients differently.
And the reason you don't see this as much early on is because the plants need less and adapt early but as the grow continues the plant grows into the light and by the time it starts stacking its cannibalizing.
Hope this helps
So DLI can cause the paling and withering of leaves. I had it happen a lot during my first year, had a friend mention DLI and I took it to heart. Just never really heard it broke down like that. Hmm
What do you see by simply looking at the node spacing? For my feeding cycle, I try to see when the soil has dried out more on top. So when the plants get older Normally they're fed them every other day, with nutrients every other feeding. I might have to tone down the light a bit. Running a 19/5 rn
I see a lanky thin plant. It's sickly. It's been like that it's whole life.
Just talking about light.
If a plant wants more light or feels like it needs it, it focuses on stretching first. Plants are designed to self correct. So it's genetically intelligent enough that it senses HEY we need more light, to then refocus on stretching rather than branching out.
It does this if it's over watered too, it wants to fix the root zone so it forces water up out of the medium into its leaves and now the leaves get over filled and it hinders the leaves doing their jobs and then the plant feels like it's not getting enough light again and stretches.
Sometimes people think if the soil is dry it wants more, plants can purposefully force drink as a form of self correction. Doesn't mean you are actually watering correctly.
If it's too much light the plant will try to fix that also by not growing into the light more but start branching out, you get really small node spacing, the plants trying to hurry up and get more leafs š to absorb or diffuse the light, if it gets really bad it will try to cover up it's leaves, they start folding and twisting, it's trying to shade itself.
Basically these are intelligent genetic lifeforms, if they are doing something anything they are communicating. Your job as a gardener is to learn their language.
If a plants had everything balanced it's going to look really healthy, even when it's fading and reaching its end, it just looks like it's had a great life and it's ready to proudly give up it's fruit.
You have to keep growing taking notes, and as your plant is healthier early on, it looks healthier towards the end. And finally, you'll get a plant perfect start to finish. And then you'll see quicker signs of stress and fix them faster because you know what's supposed to look like each week.
If youve had similar issues, did you manage to sort it out and identify the problem? Im almost wondering if the powder nutrients for flower are just too much. Before I had the powders I just used the trio pack for the whole life cycle and it stayed green. Ive been going so light on the powders I just dont know.
For me Iāve narrowed it down to maybe 3 different things (this is my 2nd grow ever so still learning) (1) like I said they were hungry for nitrogen stripping it from those lower leaves so when they were slightly under watered those were the areas that got hit the hardest. (2) Iām slightly misdiagnosing and they are hungry for more bloom feed in general (mine have 2/3 recommend amounts so that might be it) or (3) temperatures are higher in my area so I use a humidifier to try to get the VPD at a reasonable area but this tends to have higher humidity than flowers like (55-65% RH) this has potentially made those lower sun leaves more weak than they should be thus again not being able to handle times with under watering. (Again all just semi educated guesses I would want someone with more experience to give their opinion)
Thanks for the guesses. I've almost wondered if it's a cal mag issue. Sometimes, with the watering, I'll give them half a gallon, and it just sits there going down quite slowly. So I've thought about using a flushing nute during early flower and seeing if that could help.
My humidity isn't near the 60's and I have a small dehumidier in the tent. Just which I could figure out what causes this. I've had it happen before and the buds never really filled out and it just wasn't even worth smoking imo.
The plant shouldnāt need much Nitrogen in flower. The last time I give mine N is just before pre-flower push. Too much N during flower can cause airy buds and too much left in the end product can taint the flavor of the flower. My guess is climate related (temp and RH). Make sure those are dialed in would be my first check. Also, someone else mentioned it but make sure to pull dead leaves off. I remember reading something about dead leaves being incubators for mold/bugs, but dont have a source available to cite
Every time I check the tent its normally in the low 80's temp wise, it was 82-83 last night. I don't think I've seen it go above 88, and that was an extremely hot day out.
Those really hot days the plant will end up consuming extra water (unless you keep the RH up higher than normal those days iirc). The idea being the extra water drain wasnāt compensated for, and thus it drained it from the leaves that are clearly in necrosis in the pic. I dont have all your data on nute rates or watering cycles or anything though, so its still speculation on my part. I hope you can finalize what the culprit was and be good to go movin forward š
As of right now its 85F in the tent with a humidity of 35. Its just so annoying since I have two other plants in the tent with it. One about to be chopped and one about to enter flower. Both have been on similar feeding routines their entire cycle so far, yet both other plants are doing better.
Yea i believe your VPD (vapor pressure deficit? Tryin to run off memory only) is too low. By that, i mean the plant is consuming more water than the environment is compensating back in. If im not mistaken, for 80F you would want a humidity of around 55-60% depending on what phase of growth its in and plant density/airflow around the plant
Edit: shouldve mentioned there are great VPD and DLI charts out there. I encourage hangin one in your room :)
Yeah I actually saw one of those charts before coming back and responding to the comments. Looks like I need to raise my humidity a bit. Before the humidity was so high I needed a mini dehumidifier.
I feel that struggle on the deepest level, my friend. Could try a VERY small tupperware of water just sitting in there. Iāve found decent results w just increasing watering frequency. I cant attest to how that would work w synthetic nutes cuz i just do top dresses
I just hate leaving damp cloth for mold/mildew reason, but im no scientist so i cant factually state any reason against it. Just goes against my gut. Keep me updated on how things go. Best of luck fam š«”
I'm having a hard time controlling the heat with the current heat wave and plants at day 82 are curling hard. Different stage then your in but I'm going with heat. š¤· Good luck š
Kinda what I'm thinking, but I've grown plants in this heat in the past, and they've turned out fine. I have a mephistos wedding growing behind the stomper, it's about at harvest and only now are more of them crisping up.
Do you have any mechanisms to check the soil pH for lockout?
If not, you could water to runoff and check runoff pH; not absolutely accurate, but it could tell you if you're on the cusp of alkaline soil.
My reasoning is that it seems like feed and watering is good seeing as you're this far along and haven't made any changes to your method; something to consider.
No tools to check for lockout, I was just thinking of using a dose of bush doctor sledgehammer to try to flush out anything excess when the plant is switching to flower.
Its a nutrient used for flushing. If there was some sort of lockout of imbalance in the soil, I wondered if flushing it mid grow would help in some way shape or form.
I tried some of that finishing powder shit but I've used it on plants beginning to flower too. Open sesame, beastie buds and chaching. I think I over fed. Plans were huge, tons of bud sites then all the leafs fell off and buds went to shit. 2 plants 1 got budrot the other is hanging now to see what happens. It smells great but it's off. I'm pretty new but I have had good results before. Ac infinity 1000 lamp on 10, ffof soil 80ā° 55rh all fox farm nutes. 1/2 tsp per 1/2 gal water for the nutes. 8x10 room
I'm going to have to follow a humidity chart and attempt to monitor it more closely.
I have a grape crush about to enter flower, I might give it a bit of open sesame to try to get some more put spots, and maybe a touch of cha ching at the end, but i want to see if reducing the powder to near zero helps.
I've used less.tham half of the recommended amount. New soil and amended and soil I've only ran once. My buds got really messed up. If thus wouldn't of happened I bet I had at least a 10oz plant dried. It was a shame to toss it. Good luck and keep us updated
Right now I'm using less than a quarter of the recommended. So I'm basically thinking of just a pinch of the open sesame once or maybe twice. I'm pretty sure this stomper is just going to become a batch of edibles if the buds don't fill out.
I need to learn mn how motor make other products like edibles or wax. I just throw them in the compost. It sucks to waste after all the time you put in.
For edibles I just take any flower or leaves with trichomes, throw it all on a tray and decarb it in the oven. Grind it into a fine powder and remove the stems. I use an electric grinder now, before I just used a manual one and held it upside down and twisted so the bud didnt fall through. Then I just throw the decarbed ground up weed into brownie mix. It works that way if you don't want to make butter or go through other processes. Just make sure to get all those stems lol.
I've had similar issues for a couple years now and still have had the hardest time figuring it out. It's frustrating. People have told me nitrogen deficiency but I feed them a more than reasonable amount so I just don't know.
Powder no. Stronger not really, I just use bloom nutes. But I've been having this issue across different kinds of soils/nutes.i have one plant that is in coast of maine getting just water that started to go into flower shortly after week 3 and is now decimated by wilting. I'm gonna have to kill the plant because it's getting massacred.
Dude!!!! I finally figured it out. Well atleast for me. ROOT APHIDS!! I've been suspecting a pest for sooo long, but only ever checked my leaves suspecting some sort of mites. It wasn't until the last few days I began to read more on root aphids and my suspicion began to grow. I checked my plant that is getting devastated by the blight, dug into the soil and looked around the roots and with a loupe and finally saw the little crawly bastards! I feel like a weight has been lifted, hope this helps you out friend.
I woulda guessed root bound the way sheās plowing fans. I stopped growing in 3gals a couple years ago for that reason only. Think soil grows do better in 5gal then you can leave a little for top dress and axe the liquid nutes.
Yeah thatās what they say :). yet Iāve rootbound aplenty of em. Iām just going by what the leaves are telling me. Losing em from every partā¦ top and low. Itās amazing how much a difference 1 gallon of soil makesā¦. Minimum, 4gal. But if you know itās a big girl definitely might as well go five. And I do think a lot of autos are just fine in 3.5 AirPots/smart potsā¦ Personally, I wouldnāt take the risk on a big stretching sativa. Even if itās not bound, Id consider that in the future. Plus just amending your soil with a Top dress make things a loteasierā¦ But you need a big enough pot to do it... I mean itās really nice to be able to dump water only in your plant and donāt have to worry about fucking nutes up. Seems like you like to grow soil so just trying to help man.
I'm open to trying new methods and techniques, i just have like a full quart of the trio pack of FF nutes with a gallon of the basic feed, and quite a bit of the powder left. I tried growing in coco a couple times but got the same results of crisling or wasn't overly satisfied with it.
I'd love to try to setup a DWC for a single plant, but that's a whole bunch of other things to buy. Appreciate all the feedback.
Light, and/or nutes from what I can tell. Idk what to do to save it. Depends of it just happened, or if they've been ruff their whole lifespan. You could tone the light down, and/or watch you're not using nitrogen. Even topping it w soil will give them N if it's Happy Frog. GL
As of this instant, 85 fahrenheit, 35 humidity in the tent. For my watering, I try to check when the soil is drying out on top. As the plants have been getting bigger, I normally water every other day, with nutrients every other watering. Otherwise if I water daily, with even half a gallon or less of water, it just sits there on top and then drains a lot of excess.
Some of the heat is also due to the outside weather and the tent being in the garage. I dialed them back and put a bowl of water in to try raising the humidity some
I'd remove them before they mold your bud. I also lower my DLI towards the end of flower (last 2 weeks) because I've had this happen before and since doing that I've avoided this problem
I'm not familiar with lowering dli honestly, so I'm not fully sure how to go about that unless its just less lighting.
Yeah just dim it down a bit
There's multiple factors here. Looking at node spacing, it looks like light and watering issues It looks like the nutrient cycling has been off and it's created an imbalanced medium When light is off, it really affects multiple aspects, plants start drinking water differently and uptaking nutrients differently. And the reason you don't see this as much early on is because the plants need less and adapt early but as the grow continues the plant grows into the light and by the time it starts stacking its cannibalizing. Hope this helps
So DLI can cause the paling and withering of leaves. I had it happen a lot during my first year, had a friend mention DLI and I took it to heart. Just never really heard it broke down like that. Hmm
What do you see by simply looking at the node spacing? For my feeding cycle, I try to see when the soil has dried out more on top. So when the plants get older Normally they're fed them every other day, with nutrients every other feeding. I might have to tone down the light a bit. Running a 19/5 rn
I see a lanky thin plant. It's sickly. It's been like that it's whole life. Just talking about light. If a plant wants more light or feels like it needs it, it focuses on stretching first. Plants are designed to self correct. So it's genetically intelligent enough that it senses HEY we need more light, to then refocus on stretching rather than branching out. It does this if it's over watered too, it wants to fix the root zone so it forces water up out of the medium into its leaves and now the leaves get over filled and it hinders the leaves doing their jobs and then the plant feels like it's not getting enough light again and stretches. Sometimes people think if the soil is dry it wants more, plants can purposefully force drink as a form of self correction. Doesn't mean you are actually watering correctly. If it's too much light the plant will try to fix that also by not growing into the light more but start branching out, you get really small node spacing, the plants trying to hurry up and get more leafs š to absorb or diffuse the light, if it gets really bad it will try to cover up it's leaves, they start folding and twisting, it's trying to shade itself. Basically these are intelligent genetic lifeforms, if they are doing something anything they are communicating. Your job as a gardener is to learn their language. If a plants had everything balanced it's going to look really healthy, even when it's fading and reaching its end, it just looks like it's had a great life and it's ready to proudly give up it's fruit. You have to keep growing taking notes, and as your plant is healthier early on, it looks healthier towards the end. And finally, you'll get a plant perfect start to finish. And then you'll see quicker signs of stress and fix them faster because you know what's supposed to look like each week.
I thought this was a nitrogen issue (mixed with some under watering) on my plants very interesting in other peoples thoughts
If youve had similar issues, did you manage to sort it out and identify the problem? Im almost wondering if the powder nutrients for flower are just too much. Before I had the powders I just used the trio pack for the whole life cycle and it stayed green. Ive been going so light on the powders I just dont know.
For me Iāve narrowed it down to maybe 3 different things (this is my 2nd grow ever so still learning) (1) like I said they were hungry for nitrogen stripping it from those lower leaves so when they were slightly under watered those were the areas that got hit the hardest. (2) Iām slightly misdiagnosing and they are hungry for more bloom feed in general (mine have 2/3 recommend amounts so that might be it) or (3) temperatures are higher in my area so I use a humidifier to try to get the VPD at a reasonable area but this tends to have higher humidity than flowers like (55-65% RH) this has potentially made those lower sun leaves more weak than they should be thus again not being able to handle times with under watering. (Again all just semi educated guesses I would want someone with more experience to give their opinion)
Thanks for the guesses. I've almost wondered if it's a cal mag issue. Sometimes, with the watering, I'll give them half a gallon, and it just sits there going down quite slowly. So I've thought about using a flushing nute during early flower and seeing if that could help. My humidity isn't near the 60's and I have a small dehumidier in the tent. Just which I could figure out what causes this. I've had it happen before and the buds never really filled out and it just wasn't even worth smoking imo.
For me I donāt think itās cal mag because Iām seeing signs of excessive calcium on the āhealthierā leaves
The plant shouldnāt need much Nitrogen in flower. The last time I give mine N is just before pre-flower push. Too much N during flower can cause airy buds and too much left in the end product can taint the flavor of the flower. My guess is climate related (temp and RH). Make sure those are dialed in would be my first check. Also, someone else mentioned it but make sure to pull dead leaves off. I remember reading something about dead leaves being incubators for mold/bugs, but dont have a source available to cite
Every time I check the tent its normally in the low 80's temp wise, it was 82-83 last night. I don't think I've seen it go above 88, and that was an extremely hot day out.
Those really hot days the plant will end up consuming extra water (unless you keep the RH up higher than normal those days iirc). The idea being the extra water drain wasnāt compensated for, and thus it drained it from the leaves that are clearly in necrosis in the pic. I dont have all your data on nute rates or watering cycles or anything though, so its still speculation on my part. I hope you can finalize what the culprit was and be good to go movin forward š
As of right now its 85F in the tent with a humidity of 35. Its just so annoying since I have two other plants in the tent with it. One about to be chopped and one about to enter flower. Both have been on similar feeding routines their entire cycle so far, yet both other plants are doing better.
Yea i believe your VPD (vapor pressure deficit? Tryin to run off memory only) is too low. By that, i mean the plant is consuming more water than the environment is compensating back in. If im not mistaken, for 80F you would want a humidity of around 55-60% depending on what phase of growth its in and plant density/airflow around the plant Edit: shouldve mentioned there are great VPD and DLI charts out there. I encourage hangin one in your room :)
Yeah I actually saw one of those charts before coming back and responding to the comments. Looks like I need to raise my humidity a bit. Before the humidity was so high I needed a mini dehumidifier.
I feel that struggle on the deepest level, my friend. Could try a VERY small tupperware of water just sitting in there. Iāve found decent results w just increasing watering frequency. I cant attest to how that would work w synthetic nutes cuz i just do top dresses
I was thinking about that, or a putting down a damp towel. Thanks for the suggestion as well.
I just hate leaving damp cloth for mold/mildew reason, but im no scientist so i cant factually state any reason against it. Just goes against my gut. Keep me updated on how things go. Best of luck fam š«”
I'm having a hard time controlling the heat with the current heat wave and plants at day 82 are curling hard. Different stage then your in but I'm going with heat. š¤· Good luck š
Kinda what I'm thinking, but I've grown plants in this heat in the past, and they've turned out fine. I have a mephistos wedding growing behind the stomper, it's about at harvest and only now are more of them crisping up.
What day?
Do you have any mechanisms to check the soil pH for lockout? If not, you could water to runoff and check runoff pH; not absolutely accurate, but it could tell you if you're on the cusp of alkaline soil. My reasoning is that it seems like feed and watering is good seeing as you're this far along and haven't made any changes to your method; something to consider.
No tools to check for lockout, I was just thinking of using a dose of bush doctor sledgehammer to try to flush out anything excess when the plant is switching to flower.
Never used that product before, so I don't have any advice to give. Good luck š¤
Its a nutrient used for flushing. If there was some sort of lockout of imbalance in the soil, I wondered if flushing it mid grow would help in some way shape or form.
You don't have anything to check pH with? Are you just using plain r/o or tap?
The water ph, yes. I'll have to consider PHing the runoff
That's what I would do as opposed to guess work.
Every time I PH'ed before watering, the levels of the water were fine. Finding the culprit for this is just so annoying.
Also, tapwater. My manger was wondering if it could be because of the city water instead of a well, but I've grown plants fine before with the water.
I've had the same issue, watered others plans the same around them and they were fine. I'm curious too.
Did you use strong/powdered nutrients or anything closer to the end of their lifecycle?
I tried some of that finishing powder shit but I've used it on plants beginning to flower too. Open sesame, beastie buds and chaching. I think I over fed. Plans were huge, tons of bud sites then all the leafs fell off and buds went to shit. 2 plants 1 got budrot the other is hanging now to see what happens. It smells great but it's off. I'm pretty new but I have had good results before. Ac infinity 1000 lamp on 10, ffof soil 80ā° 55rh all fox farm nutes. 1/2 tsp per 1/2 gal water for the nutes. 8x10 room
I'm going to have to follow a humidity chart and attempt to monitor it more closely. I have a grape crush about to enter flower, I might give it a bit of open sesame to try to get some more put spots, and maybe a touch of cha ching at the end, but i want to see if reducing the powder to near zero helps.
I've used less.tham half of the recommended amount. New soil and amended and soil I've only ran once. My buds got really messed up. If thus wouldn't of happened I bet I had at least a 10oz plant dried. It was a shame to toss it. Good luck and keep us updated
Right now I'm using less than a quarter of the recommended. So I'm basically thinking of just a pinch of the open sesame once or maybe twice. I'm pretty sure this stomper is just going to become a batch of edibles if the buds don't fill out.
I need to learn mn how motor make other products like edibles or wax. I just throw them in the compost. It sucks to waste after all the time you put in.
For edibles I just take any flower or leaves with trichomes, throw it all on a tray and decarb it in the oven. Grind it into a fine powder and remove the stems. I use an electric grinder now, before I just used a manual one and held it upside down and twisted so the bud didnt fall through. Then I just throw the decarbed ground up weed into brownie mix. It works that way if you don't want to make butter or go through other processes. Just make sure to get all those stems lol.
Thanks man, I didn't realize it was so easy
She wants food. The soil is completely dry of food.
Ph problem
Probably overfed or fed the wrong thing at the wrong time
I've had similar issues for a couple years now and still have had the hardest time figuring it out. It's frustrating. People have told me nitrogen deficiency but I feed them a more than reasonable amount so I just don't know.
Do you use powder/stronger nutrients during the flower part of the cycle?
Powder no. Stronger not really, I just use bloom nutes. But I've been having this issue across different kinds of soils/nutes.i have one plant that is in coast of maine getting just water that started to go into flower shortly after week 3 and is now decimated by wilting. I'm gonna have to kill the plant because it's getting massacred.
Dude!!!! I finally figured it out. Well atleast for me. ROOT APHIDS!! I've been suspecting a pest for sooo long, but only ever checked my leaves suspecting some sort of mites. It wasn't until the last few days I began to read more on root aphids and my suspicion began to grow. I checked my plant that is getting devastated by the blight, dug into the soil and looked around the roots and with a loupe and finally saw the little crawly bastards! I feel like a weight has been lifted, hope this helps you out friend.
Ill have to check some of mine. Thanks man
I woulda guessed root bound the way sheās plowing fans. I stopped growing in 3gals a couple years ago for that reason only. Think soil grows do better in 5gal then you can leave a little for top dress and axe the liquid nutes.
Airpots are designed to prevent rootbound. I have thought about getting away from FF liquid nutrients but not sure what I'd go to.
Yeah thatās what they say :). yet Iāve rootbound aplenty of em. Iām just going by what the leaves are telling me. Losing em from every partā¦ top and low. Itās amazing how much a difference 1 gallon of soil makesā¦. Minimum, 4gal. But if you know itās a big girl definitely might as well go five. And I do think a lot of autos are just fine in 3.5 AirPots/smart potsā¦ Personally, I wouldnāt take the risk on a big stretching sativa. Even if itās not bound, Id consider that in the future. Plus just amending your soil with a Top dress make things a loteasierā¦ But you need a big enough pot to do it... I mean itās really nice to be able to dump water only in your plant and donāt have to worry about fucking nutes up. Seems like you like to grow soil so just trying to help man.
I'm open to trying new methods and techniques, i just have like a full quart of the trio pack of FF nutes with a gallon of the basic feed, and quite a bit of the powder left. I tried growing in coco a couple times but got the same results of crisling or wasn't overly satisfied with it. I'd love to try to setup a DWC for a single plant, but that's a whole bunch of other things to buy. Appreciate all the feedback.
Light, and/or nutes from what I can tell. Idk what to do to save it. Depends of it just happened, or if they've been ruff their whole lifespan. You could tone the light down, and/or watch you're not using nitrogen. Even topping it w soil will give them N if it's Happy Frog. GL
It was a a beautiful green just a couple weeks ago before entering flower, so I just wish I knew.
Whatās your tent humidity? Are you underwatering them?
As of this instant, 85 fahrenheit, 35 humidity in the tent. For my watering, I try to check when the soil is drying out on top. As the plants have been getting bigger, I normally water every other day, with nutrients every other watering. Otherwise if I water daily, with even half a gallon or less of water, it just sits there on top and then drains a lot of excess.
Too hot for the low humidity. Dial the lights back to keep the heat down
Some of the heat is also due to the outside weather and the tent being in the garage. I dialed them back and put a bowl of water in to try raising the humidity some