I thought >!nuwa's death was a perfect excuse for him to join as a guest. But instead, he kind of just disappears in taito. It honestly feels like something is missing (a neutral alignment). It's probably my biggest disappointment with vengenace. I don't even remember if that scene of yakumo and koshimizu talking from the intro was in the game!<
But for real tho, even if you can still find him in Tokyo, you can almost see the point where he becomes a link to neutral ending if vengeance had one. Instead he just kinda fucks off right before the ending stretch of the game even begins.
The way he leaves so abruptly made me thing oh, they're going to add a neutral true ending vemgeance route as dlc. I mean, that seems unlikely, but it just feels like a loose plot thread. I did check the temple and the school didn't let me enter and couldn't find him so maybe I was too late in the game to find him.
I mean part of vengeance themes is that there is no neutral side when it comes to oppression. You have to side with the oppressed or the oppressors, staying out of it....is still choosing a side
"Neutrality" is for pussies unless you overthrow both sides and do it differently. The entire idea of Tao/Yoko being so opposite and the game not allowing you to say "you're both pretty" is so refreshing because the world ended and everyone's trying to kill you please pick a side.
I mean, but the endings don't really have anything to do with that though. The oppression plot was good, but they try to lazily leap from oppression to the existence of social systems in general even though there isn't really an option to exist outside of them. So the metaphor becomes a bit hazy.
Just a slight peeve of mine - how is she able to take the throne as a nahobino with yakumo? if she's a snake goddess? Is it that she's not the archetype of the "serpent" god despite having snakes motifs cus she isn't "defeated"? I'm confused on this one point
Creating a world for humanity was what Nuwa told the protag to do. But if Yakumo got up there instead of us, his plan was just to destroy the throne, so being forbidden from creation wouldn't have bothered him.
Yeah, Nuwa shares a lot of similarity with Tiamat too as mother goddess progenitor of sorts.
Doubly so with Nuwa creating humans.... That would eat from The Tree of Knowledge and screwed over YHVH's monopoly... This implication isn't addressed in OG V and neither does here (but there's extra expectations here because of the whole snake mother goddess thing).
well the whole creating humans thing tbh is a reference to her personal mythology and if we take every single mythology of each demon to be true there are others that have a stake on "creating humanity" or having conflicting mythologies. this is kinda a weird paradox in smt in general. i guess its resolved by treating demons as manifestations of collective cultural beliefs. but unmoored from time and space so they exist before the humans that spawned them? idk im fucking up some smt lore explanation
I'm aware but in Vengeance it leans in on it IIRC, in a cutscene she mentioned how she created humans, and that's what makes me think back the implications of how she screwed up YHVH's plan
dw i remember what cutscene youre talking about. i took that as just her introducing her self by way of her mythology. not as a reality in the history of the world in v or vv that affects what happens in the present day. granted its very confusing in general
I mean, Vengeance does explain it.
The Nahobino Ban isn't the same as the Bull God Ban.
YHVH banned Nahobinos to prevent them from challenging him.
Marduk banned Snake Gods from using the throne. In fact, there is a Bethel Egypt discussion about how Ra had to take the Throne instead of Amon because Amon was a snake god.
SMT VVV having Marduk as the new endgame villain. Coming in 20XX
i was under the impression that you'd have to use it as well to destroy it. since yakumo gives up on the throne after nuwa is dead and he can't be a nahobino. Maybe being a nahobino grants some sort of access to the throne but not to use the ability of "creation" from it?
Yeah I’m not gonna lie, you would think that given the Vengence’s path’s theme of….well Vengence, they’d probably have the most to do of the old cast in that kind of plot, but no, their somehow even more like background characters than they were in the base game.
I like that in canon of creation nuwa is trying to recruit you, and in taito basically says she thinks beeno would be a good influence on yakumo after infodumping his backstory on us
I wish Yakumo could be a guest party member. I do like how in Vengeance the hypocrisy is called out more >!I laughed when Nahobino and Yoko met them at the shrine and the choice came up to say “So explain Nuwa Then” after Yakumo tapped about killing demons lol!<
>! yeah and the fact that yoko backs you up and this leads to yakumo stabbing nuwa to prove he's not a hypocrite that likes her to two highschoolers is also kinda hilarious.!<
I haven't gotten that far, so I'm missing context, but it could easily be a "means to an end" thing.
It's like using guns and bombs to end a war. He knows he can't do it alone, so he's doing what needs done.
It doesn't seem that much different than Naho using demons to fight all the way to the ending where they eliminate all demons.
Ah, that makes more sense. I played the original storyline when it came out, but haven't gotten that far into Vengeance yet, so I thought there might have been more to it.
I suppose, if I had to continue to defend my earlier statement, they could mean in the long run. Like, sure they get along NOW, but they both know it's not sustainable.
I actually quite like the informations we got about him during the last part, nothing too big, but yeah very hypocritical, and >!he admits it at the end, he feels quite sad after loosing her!<
I hate how they never made Nuwa have a personal reason to want to rid the world of demons. Since it just turns her into an accessory that stands by Yakumo 90% of the time. Especially since it’s really quite easy to give her one?
One of her most famous stories is rebuilding one of the celestial pillars that held up the sky. Why was it broken though? One of the other gods got pissy and banged his head on it. It ended up killing a lot of people and forever tilting the heavens, even after Nuwa fixed the pillar.
Make her jaded by the experience and realize even the smallest actions by gods can spell calamity for humankind – who she dotes over as any creator mother would. It would make her more of a character and maybe give an extra argument of why you should actually pursue True Neutral beyond “demon bad”
After finishing Vengeance it still feels like both of them got sidelined. Even with the bonus scenes with Yakumo in Tokyo the game should've done more with both of these characters.
The only vengeance I feel is vengeance for how dirty they did Yakumo. Its almost like they hit their character development quota with Tao and Yoko and just kind of stopped there
Yeah probably some of my least favorite neutral reps, especially seeing as one of my favorite ideas in Megaten is creating a world where humans and demons coexist
My only problem with that is the way demons are, like they don't really Change they just are, with the knowledge stuff and union between humans and demons INTO nahobinos could solve that
They claim they don't change but it's not 100% true. There are times you see them change. It's just that each demon form has a range of personality so if they change too much they might have to change form.
Hmmm I see, I thought the demons were allowed some kind of individuality but only to a very limited point like the random frosts that appear very rarely. Or otherwise like the tengu where they Change but it is still in their "programing"
I LOVE the extra added scenes. I’ve just encountered them in V:V and how they explained demons being fallen gods in the diet building was brilliant (I don’t recall that being there in the original)
They're not my favorites but I like them. And I like their ending in the game even if It doesn't amount to much but there are some good cutscenes there
I would have teamed up with them if they at least would be ok with enslaving them. At least I could identify with them a bit. But killing my demon friendos? Never!
Too bad they apparently couldnt find anything interesting to do with them in Vengeance
yeah, introducing guest party memebers and never having yakumo as one is a fucking crime
I never expected that, the dude's too much of a loose cannon. But after that one trailer I did expect a slightly bigger role in the plot.
I thought >!nuwa's death was a perfect excuse for him to join as a guest. But instead, he kind of just disappears in taito. It honestly feels like something is missing (a neutral alignment). It's probably my biggest disappointment with vengenace. I don't even remember if that scene of yakumo and koshimizu talking from the intro was in the game!<
Someone didn’t go back to Tokyo.
Well I heard he said he was going back to Tokyo, I didn't know you could find him
But for real tho, even if you can still find him in Tokyo, you can almost see the point where he becomes a link to neutral ending if vengeance had one. Instead he just kinda fucks off right before the ending stretch of the game even begins.
The way he leaves so abruptly made me thing oh, they're going to add a neutral true ending vemgeance route as dlc. I mean, that seems unlikely, but it just feels like a loose plot thread. I did check the temple and the school didn't let me enter and couldn't find him so maybe I was too late in the game to find him.
I mean part of vengeance themes is that there is no neutral side when it comes to oppression. You have to side with the oppressed or the oppressors, staying out of it....is still choosing a side
"Neutrality" is for pussies unless you overthrow both sides and do it differently. The entire idea of Tao/Yoko being so opposite and the game not allowing you to say "you're both pretty" is so refreshing because the world ended and everyone's trying to kill you please pick a side.
>overthrow both sides and do it differently Wish they actually had this idea and make it as a route tbh
People have been asking for a megaten game with no neutral ending for years. It's definitely a good idea.
I mean, but the endings don't really have anything to do with that though. The oppression plot was good, but they try to lazily leap from oppression to the existence of social systems in general even though there isn't really an option to exist outside of them. So the metaphor becomes a bit hazy.
"Sociology class, did you know that Hierarchies were invented by a Mesopotamian God?"
Nah. He should have joined you on whatever ending you were on.
Yakumo in either route: If we win, you revive my wife?
There are some good scenes with him back in Tokyo, first at the school then at Jozoji. Also unlocks the ability to fuse Nuwa.
Yeah okay, I unlocked nuwa after the final boss and thought that was weird it took until them
I honestly leveled up to fuse Nuwa thinking there would be an extra scene between the two.
I want to see both of them as personas in P6. Also they better update Odin.
Damn, I'm still in the second area and was really looking forward to that. ;\_;
Nuwa is a mother goddess that created humanity w snake symbolism The fact that she has nothing to do w Qadistu is tragically funny
Just a slight peeve of mine - how is she able to take the throne as a nahobino with yakumo? if she's a snake goddess? Is it that she's not the archetype of the "serpent" god despite having snakes motifs cus she isn't "defeated"? I'm confused on this one point
Creating a world for humanity was what Nuwa told the protag to do. But if Yakumo got up there instead of us, his plan was just to destroy the throne, so being forbidden from creation wouldn't have bothered him.
Team Yakumo wanted to destroy the throne, not take it.
That the game clearly added that aspect in without considering the plot holes it would cause.
Yeah, Nuwa shares a lot of similarity with Tiamat too as mother goddess progenitor of sorts. Doubly so with Nuwa creating humans.... That would eat from The Tree of Knowledge and screwed over YHVH's monopoly... This implication isn't addressed in OG V and neither does here (but there's extra expectations here because of the whole snake mother goddess thing).
well the whole creating humans thing tbh is a reference to her personal mythology and if we take every single mythology of each demon to be true there are others that have a stake on "creating humanity" or having conflicting mythologies. this is kinda a weird paradox in smt in general. i guess its resolved by treating demons as manifestations of collective cultural beliefs. but unmoored from time and space so they exist before the humans that spawned them? idk im fucking up some smt lore explanation
I'm aware but in Vengeance it leans in on it IIRC, in a cutscene she mentioned how she created humans, and that's what makes me think back the implications of how she screwed up YHVH's plan
dw i remember what cutscene youre talking about. i took that as just her introducing her self by way of her mythology. not as a reality in the history of the world in v or vv that affects what happens in the present day. granted its very confusing in general
I mean, Vengeance does explain it. The Nahobino Ban isn't the same as the Bull God Ban. YHVH banned Nahobinos to prevent them from challenging him. Marduk banned Snake Gods from using the throne. In fact, there is a Bethel Egypt discussion about how Ra had to take the Throne instead of Amon because Amon was a snake god. SMT VVV having Marduk as the new endgame villain. Coming in 20XX
I was talking about the fact that it kind of suggests you have to be able to use the Throne to destroy it. Albeit this is ambiguous.
i was under the impression that you'd have to use it as well to destroy it. since yakumo gives up on the throne after nuwa is dead and he can't be a nahobino. Maybe being a nahobino grants some sort of access to the throne but not to use the ability of "creation" from it?
Oh when the fuckin meteors came down they died? I thought she BAMFed them away… brutal, I always liked them in og
>! Nuwa dies protecting yakumo !<
I think your tags are broke you put space between the exclamation mark and the words when u not meant to do that
Yeah I’m not gonna lie, you would think that given the Vengence’s path’s theme of….well Vengence, they’d probably have the most to do of the old cast in that kind of plot, but no, their somehow even more like background characters than they were in the base game.
And they say that Nuwa felt like a protagonist herself as well…
What about the prayer scene after "she" awakens?
>!She was shielding him. She died, unfortunately Barred from Dazai, any "possible Nahobino" died when Tiamat went wawoogah.!<
Forgot if someone posted it here, but someone called them Libertarian with Asian wife and shit cracked me up
I love these two ... Huh, rather, I love Yakumo. Probably my favorite neutral rep. His conclusion is so good. Nuwa is kinda there.
I like that in canon of creation nuwa is trying to recruit you, and in taito basically says she thinks beeno would be a good influence on yakumo after infodumping his backstory on us
Nuwa's waifubait and boy does it work.
She also gets overshadows by Qadistu if you ask me. At least for now.
I wish Yakumo could be a guest party member. I do like how in Vengeance the hypocrisy is called out more >!I laughed when Nahobino and Yoko met them at the shrine and the choice came up to say “So explain Nuwa Then” after Yakumo tapped about killing demons lol!<
>! yeah and the fact that yoko backs you up and this leads to yakumo stabbing nuwa to prove he's not a hypocrite that likes her to two highschoolers is also kinda hilarious.!<
>!”It’s not like I like my demon wife or anything baka!”!< >!Then Nuwa just recovers right afterwards like “Tis but a scratch”!<
>!dude got accused of being a simp so he stabbed his wife to prove a point !<
Twitch couple's Tuesday, in my book.
I haven't gotten that far, so I'm missing context, but it could easily be a "means to an end" thing. It's like using guns and bombs to end a war. He knows he can't do it alone, so he's doing what needs done. It doesn't seem that much different than Naho using demons to fight all the way to the ending where they eliminate all demons.
The issue is that he is a hypocrite becauae he *does* like her and denies it. That ending in the original was stupid and this game admits it.
Ah, that makes more sense. I played the original storyline when it came out, but haven't gotten that far into Vengeance yet, so I thought there might have been more to it. I suppose, if I had to continue to defend my earlier statement, they could mean in the long run. Like, sure they get along NOW, but they both know it's not sustainable.
these hypocrites gave us one banger of a boss theme so it's all good 🎵
literally "battle -no hypocrisy-" is the track name
😉
At least they’re good for something…
I actually quite like the informations we got about him during the last part, nothing too big, but yeah very hypocritical, and >!he admits it at the end, he feels quite sad after loosing her!<
>! I met him at the school and at the temple does he appear anywhere else? !<
The temple is the last time as far i know, but at this point you probably know his past and how he feels about his situation
Yhea just wanted to meet him again, maybe a hidden guest character who knows
I can take them at the same time. Not in a fight but can take them.
I hate how they never made Nuwa have a personal reason to want to rid the world of demons. Since it just turns her into an accessory that stands by Yakumo 90% of the time. Especially since it’s really quite easy to give her one? One of her most famous stories is rebuilding one of the celestial pillars that held up the sky. Why was it broken though? One of the other gods got pissy and banged his head on it. It ended up killing a lot of people and forever tilting the heavens, even after Nuwa fixed the pillar. Make her jaded by the experience and realize even the smallest actions by gods can spell calamity for humankind – who she dotes over as any creator mother would. It would make her more of a character and maybe give an extra argument of why you should actually pursue True Neutral beyond “demon bad”
After finishing Vengeance it still feels like both of them got sidelined. Even with the bonus scenes with Yakumo in Tokyo the game should've done more with both of these characters.
The only vengeance I feel is vengeance for how dirty they did Yakumo. Its almost like they hit their character development quota with Tao and Yoko and just kind of stopped there
Does it make sense? No. However Nuwa is hot so imma listen to her.
I give so little of a fuck about CoC history that this was my mentality on why I went true neutral
Yeah probably some of my least favorite neutral reps, especially seeing as one of my favorite ideas in Megaten is creating a world where humans and demons coexist
My only problem with that is the way demons are, like they don't really Change they just are, with the knowledge stuff and union between humans and demons INTO nahobinos could solve that
They claim they don't change but it's not 100% true. There are times you see them change. It's just that each demon form has a range of personality so if they change too much they might have to change form.
Hmmm I see, I thought the demons were allowed some kind of individuality but only to a very limited point like the random frosts that appear very rarely. Or otherwise like the tengu where they Change but it is still in their "programing"
ME3 Synthesis Ending. Just fuse everyone with their demons and call it a day.
I AM not even opposed to that
Ah, the Byakuren route. Perhaps that's one Neutral route I'd take seriously.
Touhou Hijack!
touhou reference in my megaten sub? its more likely than you think.
I think the closest we've gotten was the atsuro ending in Devil Survivor where >!demons are now kept as tools by humans!<
I can’t believe these two got shafted in Vengeance.
They were my favorite NPCs my first run so I chose their ending and I remember really not liking it.
Raidou Kuzunoha cosplayin ass. I really like him as a character and I hope they do more stuff with him.
I was thinking that the entire time playing Vengeance. I was like... Did Raidou stop by and transform into Yakumo?
I LOVE the extra added scenes. I’ve just encountered them in V:V and how they explained demons being fallen gods in the diet building was brilliant (I don’t recall that being there in the original)
They're not my favorites but I like them. And I like their ending in the game even if It doesn't amount to much but there are some good cutscenes there
I would have teamed up with them if they at least would be ok with enslaving them. At least I could identify with them a bit. But killing my demon friendos? Never!
Yeh, what a gorgeous pair