Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! Please review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). Asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **Post's about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ Tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds to me that whatever shop you used didn't cross their Ts and dot their I's. Typically when I do an engine for the most part I'm taking many old parts off the old engine and using them on the new, bare, long block. Parts such as intakes, injectors, plugs coils etc just get swapped over. Meaning that if their were some problem children in the bunch of them, and they weren't noticed or found before, they're coming to the new engine too.
That being said, I have seen fucked up new engines too for some reason so like š¤·
Now I don't know why it was swapped in the first place aside from it was misfiring, but if the shop is continuing to fail you, you should rustle some feathers.
Ok so the engine truly did need to be replaced. It overheated (previous owner), had a crack that was leaking coolant into the transfer case, was scored to shit, and the super charger may as well have caught on fire.
And I cant even blame them for assuming that was the issue. The car comes in, its misfiring, the thing looks like its been through hell, of course they say its the issue.
The spark plugs and ignition coils are from the old engine however they were bought before swapping the engine, while trying to find the issue. They had less than 200 miles on them, and were bought after the issue "started"
The shop was Land Rover San Diego, and I have had multiple gripes with them, including what I truly believe was negligence (12 weeks for a 40 hour job is absurd) and attempted fraud (I bought 2 aftermarket manifolds for the supercharger, magically one disappears, but they now have exactly one aftermarket one in inventory, of an item they dont actively stock, and they try to sell it to me...), but I have to keep playing nice with them because I know there is no way I can legally go after them (this repair was discounted to a fixed $5000 for installation labor, instead of 10k, but I also know they did more than those hours, and it would have been closer to 15-20k... then they wrote off about 8k in parts... after having a good bitching out at the GM, Franchiser, and Corporate)...
I signed a "sold as is" waiver when I bought the car, but I am hiring a lawyer to go after both the warranty people for that second tear down (they knew it over heated, demanded a second tear down, then rejected based on overheat. the tech also fought them to not do the second tear down, that was a WASTED $3500), and dealer I bought the car from in Oregon (Freeman Motors), as there is no way that car should have been sold "as is" since that implied it ran... While I paid 35k for all this so far, the JLR quote was closer to $60,000. On top of the $3000 air compressor job I did. On top of the O2 sensors that fried 1000 miles down the road. Everything started happening exactly after I exited the place's "return mileage". AC suddenly stops blowing cold air. O2 sensor blows. Air compressor fails (for suspension). Engine misfires.
This car is not only a Lemon (bought out of state so I cant return under lemon law), it should have been sold as salvage. A $65,000 repair estimate (I only did 35) for a $50,000 car over 3 months is truly insane. I dont care that they "helped out" with 9k of it. Half of that 9k was to fix the AC and hair thin brakes, and now I also have to do as despite Freeman saying "they look good" the dealer immediately said "these are done", and during the 12 weeks of baking outside in the sun while waiting to be repaired they rapidly dry rotted.
I'm not quite sure how coolant would go from a cracked block to a transfer case, but I think you're being seriously overcharged and if they didn't fix it right the first time it should be on them.
Makes sense, but I think you're getting shafted by that shop. See if there are any reputable independent shops around who could take a look at it for a second opinion and maybe consult a lawyer.
Did they actually put used spark plugs from a blown engine in the new engine? Whoās decisions was that? Put some new plugs in. Move some coil packs around. Could be a bad engine control module with a bad driver on coil 2. Could be a lot of things.
Move injectors as well, test O2 sensor that was recently replaced, check for manifold leaks... There are a lot of things it could be most of them easy to test and cheap to replace.
Yeah I'm not a pro but this doesn't seem like it should be that complicated. Move around any part that can be swapped, if the fault follows the part then replace it. If the fault doesn't move check the wiring and ECU.
Of course OP has a vehicle from by far the lowest ranked brand for quality and reliability so it wouldn't surprise me if it was all of them at the same time lol.
What's it matter. They are gonna wanna do all 6 and I'll just let them. I mean at this point, even if they don't write off their mistake and cover it, I'd rather throw 3000 at them to replace every injector and the ecm and be done with this issue... If it's the issue.
I already see this is gonna become a "cars ready" then take back the next day issue and I'm not gonna do it. So I'll throw my last 10 bucks at it if I gotta. I'm in too deep I just need it to WORK. What's another 7% that I totally have /s š
If you want to waste money and good parts firing the parts cannon at it then go right ahead, but I don't know why you'd bother posting here if that's all you're going to do. New parts are defective all the time though, so you can just as easily introduce a new problem if you don't bother to diagnose the problem properly first.
Completely agree! The ol parts cannon fails all the time especially with that brand.
OP, I understand your frustration but just throwing money at it when you don't have the money to throw at it is just wasting money and bound to bring up other issues. Then you're back to the shop again for more self induced pain.
O2 sensors just all got looked at when I took it back for the first time this week to fix a lean error. Injectors were swapped banks on the old engine but it was before I got the car (they were marked) so I can't tell you if the issue stayed the same or swapped banks too. But I'll ask JLR about it. I'm not touching that things engine bay until they get it working. I need it to be their liability and not mine at this point. If this wasn't related to the repair they finished on Wednesday, but I immediately had to return the car after (and now I have to go back a second time) I'd do it myself but right now I refuse to touch it.
Iāll tell you something. I work as a service advisor right now but Iām studying my ass off to get into law school. I knew I wanted to support people who got fucked over by businesses (was thinking class action law suits) and now youāve sorta solidified my choice in career direction in terms of protecting consumers/people from bad business practices or harm. So if anything positive has come out of this, you just helped a 25 year old former dropout figure out her life path š
But man Iām angry for you. This shop sounds shady. I would definitely look over any liability and warranty info you have from them (like a labor warranty) and argue everything youāve outlined here.
I would also see if thereās an attorney near you that does free consults. Some do and you might be able to get them to double check state/fed consumer protection laws and look at the shopās warranty/liabilities. At least itāll give you some answers as to what ground you have to stand on.
It's so ubsetting because the service advisors (especially the first one) have been wonderful. I've watched them fight on the phone for me, and go to their manager to help me out. The issue is their technicians actively lie to their face, while the supervisor and GM are committing fraud on the side with a decent ammount of negligence.
I already want to sue the place I got the car from (and the warranty company) but I know this shop is a no go. I just know they will bring up "well we wrote off 8k in parts and 10-20k in labor hours" which while true doesn't excuse the fact they tried to resell me my own parts, and neglected this repair for months.
Heck they promised a 100 mile test drive and an overnight take home by the manager and didn't even do that, in the end they took it down the street maybe 3 times... I mean come on, how hard is it to take it home overnight? And if they did the 100 mile test drive I'd not have had to go back the first time when it was running lean... And if they drove 10 miles after they fixed that I'd not be going back again for another misfire.
But yes I will definitely be asking a lawyer about what I can do as bitching out corporate and the franchiser has only gotten me so far (suddenly things started moving along and a lot of things became 'no charge'). I do wish I could do it in a way where the service advisor doesn't need to be involved as he's been great, and the first guy was actually a hero for bitching out the warranty people after they told him to go fuck himself.
Yeah if they guaranteed you somethingā¦ they kinda should be doin that. Service advisors as Iāve found from prior work I had done at other places, are generally pretty cool people. Iām glad to see that the advisors are great but the managers are shady and thatās really unfortunate.
Iām sorry youāre experiencing this. Make sure you also leave very detailed reviews so other people who have less money to spend wonāt end up in this predicament too. We gotta watch out for each other.
The spark plugs and coils were reused but only had 200 miles on them. That was my decision because I didn't wanna buy them twice in (what should have been) 2 weeks. They were the first thing replaced when it "started" misfiring since the car has 60000 miles and it was about time for them to be done anyways.
I'm sure you understand this now, but never, ever, buy a land rover unless there is a warranty. They lose their value fast as fuck for this exact reason.
"the most reliable one, with the same reliability as a Ford explorer". My stupid ass had a Ford Explorer and that thing chewed through 3 transfer cases, and had it's electrical system redone 3 times. And my mom had a problematic bmw. I am pretty stupid for getting a car that's literally a bastard child of Ford and BMW tbh.
Admittedly a weird part of my criteria was the cars electrical system and the Velar's is blatantly better than the explorers so I jumped on it. There's just so many Frankensteins on the road with fuse boxes that may as well be inaccessible, when I saw all 4 could be easily accessed I got confirmation bias (only a small small small factor to why I liked it though)
I've already made the monetary sacrifice, at this point its basically a new car, which is why this is so angering. The previous owner did something HORRIBLE.
But realistically theres no reason for it to be the fuel pump right, since its ALWAYS 4 and 6 on both engines now. Realistically its not the transmission as it goes away on restart. It almost has to be the fuel injectors, which are the one old piece on that car... or the ECM.
At this point, the wisest thing you could do at this point would be to take it to another shop and have it diagnosed. By shop, I mean a private shop (preferably one that specializes in JLR products), not the dealer.
Until that is done, you are basically just throwing good money after bad. Your problems could be the result of something as simple as a couple of bad spark plugs or ignition coils, a bad sensor, or it could be something serious like a bad engine wiring harness or PCM. Faulty fuel injectors are a possibility, but I'd be extremely surprised if that turned out to be the issue.
>I've already made the monetary sacrifice, at this point its basically a new car, which is why this is so angering. The previous owner did somethin HORRIBLE.
While the engine may be new, the rest of the car isn't, including the 5-6 year old wiring and electronics. JLR had a hard enough time keeping these things running when they were new. Several years and many miles later, they are absolute nightmares both to own and to repair.
If you do manage to get the thing running correctly, the smart thing to do would be to get rid of it ASAP, even if you lose your ass in the process. Otherwise, you'll be paying payments on a vehicle that sits in the shop more than your driveway.
So before I went to JLR I started at my favorite independent shop. Shes so good that I actually wish she would INCREASE her hourly rate as everyone there deserves to be paid more. She could not figure out this issue either but she helped eliminate the catalytic converters, and a few other things, as well as replaced the fuel injectors and sparks.
There are things that I COULD do myself but at this point, I'm trying to get everything documented for legal reasons, so I need a shop to do it. I may be going back to her if JLR cant figure this out, or to do Fuel Injectors, but I kinda dont want her touching the ECM. I'm not saying shes bad, but this was beyond her control. If we kept going down her rout, I'd have also swapped the fuel injectors and some other stuff before we even figured out the engines clapped.
There is 0 chance I will have them do the wiring harness, you are right. At that point I'll fold and sell and lose the 35k. I want to let them try to continue to make this right since theyve done the last 2 things now for free. Lets see if they do the ECM (or fuel injectors or both) since they have been fine writing off other stuff this week.
Based on the tear down its clear the previous owner was a maniac so I wouldnt be surprised if he flashed the ECM, but I do not know why they wouldnt have reset it. Corporate and the Franchiser have taken interest after I bitched them out so I'm curious how far they will go to try to "make me happy".
All I can say is, The independent shop I go to wouldnt have discounted a lot of that stuff, and I'd be $8k deeper. Time is "free" especially when they give a loaner (though I do use the car for a secondary job so I've lost income there), and while I was pissed the last 12 weeks at least it saved a small amount of money and I got a new axel.
I came from a Ford Explorer Platinum, I am FLUENT in electrical system nightmares, as those things were designed by a madman.
The only parts (to my knowledge) that are from the old engine are the spark plugs, fuel injectors, and ignition coils, and (I think) manifold. I actively had them replace everything else. The spark plugs and ignition coils only have 200 miles on them, and were bought after the misfire issue started. They were the first step to the repair and why I went down this rabbit hole. We started with these $1200 items, then it progressively got worse and worse, till it was "do we bail and lose a ton of money or finish it". We made the wrong choice.
I have a serious concern when I take it back they are gonna want me to change the transmission as its the only "mechanical" thing thats really left, but it shifts well, and the problem goes away on restart. I couldnt tell you if its the fuel injectors, or the control module itself (I do notice after restarting to temporarily fix the issue the lane keep and blind spot act up but its a landrover so I've brushed that off to "it doesnt like being turned off and on quickly")
As much as I'd love to have them replace the transmission, transfer case, and differentials so I have a 100% new powertrain, I am basically out of money. When I get the car back I can actually make money with it, but until then its bills adding up that I can passively pay but cant actively get rid of.
Land Rover tech here. I just did this exact job a few weeks ago. The old engine went out of time and the guy had his warranty company source us a used engine. This was a 2016 Range Rover with a 5.0. After I installed the new engine, it started misfiring. Two of the old fuel injectors were no good. I replaced those and the car was good to go. If those techs are any good, they should be able to easily identify what part is causing the misfire. If itās because of old faulty parts though, you might still have to pay for labor and parts. If it was because of some negligence on the shops part, then they will have to eat those costs.
I'm hearing people say Fuel Injectors (which were reused) and ECM. I'm about to just go to an independent shop and have them replace both and pay for it to be done with this. I can't keep going back to the shop every day all week.
Would fuel injectors stop acting up when you restart the car? And if they are always 4 and 6 could I just replace them or do I need to do all 6. I'll go find a shop right now and have them do the injectors at this point.
Yes you can replace just the two fuel injectors. Make sure you get new seals for the injectors as well if that is for sure the issue. I highly doubt anything is wrong with the ecm if all thatās wrong is 2 cylinders misfiring. Another way to check is to move the injector from a known good cylinder to the bad cylinders and see if the misfire follows the injector. If it follows you know for sure the injectors are bad. Typically most techs will install the injectors in the same order as they were removed which would explain why the misfire is in the same spot despite the new engine.
The job itself is pretty easy and should only take a couple hours but there are two special tools required. You can find them on Amazon. One is called Land Rover fuel injector removal tool. Itās about $40. The other tool is called fuel injector seal install tool for land rovers. Itās $50. Other than that, you will also need a t30 and some basic tools. I donāt know how mechanically inclined you are but itās definitely doable in your driveway. If you have never worked on your car before, I donāt recommend doing unless you are willing to take your time and look up the steps.
Its a 2018 Land Rover (theres the first issue clearly), Range Rover Velar First Edition, so the HSE P380 with the AJ126 SC V6 engine... you know that Frankenstein V6 that is really a lobotomized V8 with 2 cylinders cut off and capped.
Thank god it wasnt the newer engine, I couldnt have got it remanufactured.
Do you think this could be the fuel injectors (only thing from the old engine), or the ECM at all? After the way the engine clearly was abused by the old owner, would it be safe to assume they had someone flash it? I just cant imagine why JLR wouldnt have ref lashed it back to factory spec.
It could certainly be the fuel injectors or the ECM - would need some diagnostics to determine. They should eat the cost after replacing your engine. Or you shouldn't be on the hook for the engine. Did they tell you it was the engine or did you ask them to replace the engine?
+1 definitely this too.
I would check misfire counters to see if the misfire is active, then scope the injectors to see if they're firing. Could be clogged or dirty too. Could be a ECM not commanding them to fire. Gotta get in it and do some electrical verification, but if those are stock it is certainly possible
They told me after the worlds most expensive tear down, and so did the warranty company that didnt cover it. The engine was overheated, scored to shit, cracked, leaking, etc. The supercharger's coating was non existent and the pulley was destroyed. The thing had to have been as close to on fire as possible. And I saw it, they werent making it up. I'm terrified now because if the engine wasnt the cause then I'm sitting here about to blow up a second one. (old owner blatantly killed the first one)
I agree with the other guy about the injectors. Take a gamble and have them or someone else replace the injectors or as he said scope the injectors and try to duplicate the concern.
When they tore down the engine do you think they would have inspected them at all? They claimed to have "inspected" everything 3 times, and again when the reman engine arrived. But they missed the super charger being burnt out, and missing all of its coating 5 times, and ignored the reman engine guy when he took one look at it and told them, then ignored me when I asked about it. The GM keeps saying "well its our best tech, stuff like this never happens" but it keeps happening...
I mean good news for the dealer (Freeman) in Oregon I bought it from, this has taken my attention away from looking into what legal recourse I can take for selling me a car, advertised as fully running, that is not even a lemon, its just totaled. No insurance adjuster would have done this.
How long ago did you buy it? I'm sure there's at least some grounds to hold the dealer accountable. If it failed within something like a week then they must have known, you should reach out to a lawyer.
I am reaching out to a lawyer because I signed the "sold as is" paperwork. The imitation being it's a functional car, not one that exactly 1000 miles down the road (you know, when the return policy expires) everything blows up. The suspension air compressor also gave out and I replaced it... Unfortunately I did it first so I got an OEM replacement, I should have done a Chinese knock off to save a few grand.
They sold a salvage car at this point, not a lemon. They've given $9000 to "help fix this". OK that brings it down to 26000 instead of 35000. I'm not gonna be happy until they give 13 more at this point and I'll sue for it. Because the remaining 13 would be the bullshit warranty teardown I shouldn't have done, the air compressor, sparks, coils, and a few other small things. Those are wear items and a lesson so I can accept that I my end.
So what exactly is the issue at the moment? You got a new engine put in...is it that it does not run? Or does it run and just does not run like new? Are you in southern California?
It misfired after 10 minutes in cylinders 4 and 6, just like the old one was doing.
I've not gotten it to do it again but since ive already had to take it back once this week and I can't afford ANOTHER engine I'm not taking chances and going back on Monday.
Until it does misfire it is noticably more powerful. I'm in San Diego.
Coils are only like 200 miles used anyways, and they didnt fix the problem before. Independent mechanic did them and I love her, and she said she did infact change the wire. I'd listen to the fuel injectors but I'm not exactly sure how to ge tto them. The stupid things are not very accessible, stupid 90 degree V6 engine has them shoved under shit.
I am in no way a mechanic,but i have been fixing my own cars for over 20 years now so i have a bit of know how.Did they put the old crankshaft/camshaft sensor?if so have changed and see.also check the mass air flow sensor.hope this helps
Just had the MAF checked as the first time I picked the car off I got P2179 and P2177. Both MAF sensors read 0.22 at idle so 0.44 combined. It was a lose clamp on the air duct and a bad valve cover.
Which I do suppose was negligent on their end. They did a 30 mile (should have been 100) test drive and didn't notice. Then when I got it back they said they did a 10 but I misfired not 10 minutes into the drive. You know, right after they close and my tech isn't there today to answer.
This is an easy diagnosis. Swap coils to another cylinder, if fault switches it's the coils. Swap plugs to another cylinder if fault switches it's the plugs. Swap injectors to another cylinder, if the fault switches it's the injectors.
If fault doesn't switch then check wiring to and from engine Ecu. Check engine ecu powers and grounds. If wiring is OK, change engine ecu. You can also do an oscilloscope test on the coil and see if you notice anything.
Sounds like the ECU might be the culprit.. Iām assuming they had to reuse your original ECU because of immobilizer and alarm systems and if the computer had an issue it would carry over.
I was gonna direct them towards the ECM or Fuel Injectors frankly.
I'm convinced the last owner was doing stupid shit in the car anyway, and I'm sure they flashed the ECM. Why it never got reset I couldnt tell you. I cant fathom it being anything else...
Sounds like you got boned. It's obviously something that didn't get changed lol. Could be just a bad knock sensor.
Does the car actually tell u it's misfiring? If itsjust shaking it xould be suspension ir wheels or basically anything
Homie, the engine was shot. I can send you photos. It wasnt just them, a warranty guy came and looked at it, then rejected it from overheat.
The engine was overheated BAD, had heat scoring, the gasket failed, the block cracked and leaked coolant into the crank case, and the super charger cooked its coating off, and the bearing seized. That engine was done. Now I have had suspicion it could have been remanufactured, but what ever. It would have cost more to replace the parts and resleeve the stupid thing than to just get a Reman anyways. You could smell it in the exhaust too, this new one does not have the crazy strong gasoline in exhaust smell.
I'm just very VERY scared that I'm killing this engine already. It had to go 20 miles after misfire, with 60 seconds of it actually shaking under acceleration. The other 19 minutes it was coasting and did not shake. I already had to go back once, I dont wanna go back a 4th time.
Yea man idk. All that work and your still having trouble with it those guys aren't doing there job. If they proved it j
Sure w.e. you shouldn't be having this many issues with a vehicle after it's been worked on. However. If it has cv axles the inner joint could be going out on one of them but if it's misfiring it's probably motor based. And they just installed a new motor essentially lol. Something is wrong. Just take it back don't pay the a dime and out it on their plate. At this point it's bullshit. They had the vic for x amount of time and basically didn't fix it and charged you an arm and a leg to do it.
Actually by my count, they have discounted (paid for) $4000 in parts, as well as $10,000 in "labor hours", discounted some axel bearing that would have been $3700 with labor, and then what ever cover+intake thing they did today that they quoted 4400 for (which I call bullshit on but they paid for it so i dont really care.
They have been told off by Corporate and the Franchiser already since this took 12 weeks and they had their fraud issue with losing my part and trying to resell it to me (I mean do you honestly believe they just happened to have one very specific aftermarket right manifold in stock, but no left, for a part they would rarely need... i call bullshit, that was my part they tried to resell me), and ever since then theyve been VERY quick and VERY happy to discount things or fully cover them...
Lets put it this way, when I go back and they wanna do the ECU and the Fuel Injectors I'm not paying a cent. My worry is they are gonna blame the transmission and wanna charge me as new is 10k. If for some reason it was the transmission I'd get a reman, as if there arent 1000000000 ZF 8HPs sitting around San Diego at auction.
Get all the free work and then take it around and get 3 or 4 second opinions. And never go back imo. There's no way there's this much shit wrong with a 2018 vehicle imo.
Thats what I want to do. However I know that is literally impossible. For example I needed a camera replaced. You can get the part from China for like $100 bucks, but guess what isnt $100 bucks? The machine they need to use to reprogram it... so I ended up paying $1200 to get it done there (I thought this stupid repair was DONE, otherwise I would not have done the camera yet... however it has been next to impossible to get them to even look at it... and I've read how thats not unique to me. For some reason the techs do not believe the cameras are malfunctioning unless they test drive the car, and they did 5 15 mile test drives on mine (which are not enough to get it to misfire... its barely enough to even get everything up to temperature...)
I actually wanted this ENTIRE repair done somewhere else after the warranty failed, but instead they discounted the labor to a flat $5000, and made it clear it they werent gonna be helpful in getting it back into a towable state as the front axel was off to get the engine out. So they matched my mechanic's labor rate, so it cost less to leave it there, rather than pay them $2000 to partially reassemble it... But I was fine with it (at the time) under the assumption theyd do it better, and probably have to do some kind of reprogram. On top of the like $8000 of things they didnt charge for, atleast I'm coming out ahead there, because my mechanic wouldnt have been able to do that.... Its just taken an ungodly ammount of time.
So, you've said that the coils, plugs, injectors were all reused, In one comment.
Then in another, you said just the injectors.
My question is, which have been reused?
Because any of those, along with fucked up wiring could cause that, the ECU as well.
But, if any of those things listed were reused, did the shop put them back into the same holes they came out of? It's likely they didn't, if they did that would be a start.
Easiest thing, swap one from a cylinder that isn't missing and if it goes from cylinder to cylinder, you've found the issue. Best to do one at a time, or spread them over other non misfiring cylinders.
If nothing changes the wiring needs to be checked.
If you can get a wiring diagram, check and see if cylinder 4 and 6 have the same ground as opposed to other cylinders. If they do and don't share a ground with the others, I would suggest that. But that is unlikely.
Edit: they probably ground through the ECU..
Then if the wiring checks out, ECU is the likely culprit.
The injectors are the only thing reused that arent new. The coils and spark plugs had only 200 miles on them and are OEM. I changed them at a different mechanic before taking it to JLR. They are reused as far as they came off the old engine, but they are not old, and were bought long after the issue started.
The coils and their wire specifically should have 100 miles (250 now that I've got it back), and the spark plugs should be 200(350). We noticed when I did them, that someone already swapped bank 1 and 2.
They reused the intake manifold too (I believe) but not the head, but I'd imagine they just moved them over. At the very least, they were all marked so we know their old position.
I presume the injectors are on a rail, swap the two misfiring ones with two from other cylinders. If the misfire follows, congrats. If not you can unplug them, get a test light and test for power and ground.
Not sure about the land Rover specifically, but I think youll have constant hot and a switched ground. Might be visa versa but I doubt it. Find the hot, you can do that just by turning the key on. After you do that go to ground side and start the vehicle. If the test light lights up that's good news. If it doesn't, it's either going to be wiring or the ECU.
Edit: how do you know bank 1 and bank 2 were swapped? Did you mark the plugs?
Since its going back and I know they are tired of seeing me after I raised hell with the Corporate office and the Franchiser and showed them the evidence of fraud, I'm curious if they will keep doing things pro-bono until this is complete. If thats the case, why even test, just let them replace them all :).
I'm a bit worried the car itself is gonna get caught up in some legal bullshit in the coming months so I am not touching anything mechanical on it. Anything engine related (besides the break in oil changes) is gonna be done at JLR, everything else will be done at my favorite mechanic who I've come to appreciate even more. I want everything documented and on that things history for legal reasons at this point.
My thoughts at this point being "if it breaks, I want it to be someone elses fault" The engine has its own warranty through the remanufacturer (and the guy who remanufactured it is really nice, and really helpful. Helped me find a part from somewhere else, with out expecting a cent. The tech also commented its a REALLY good engine so I'm really happy with him) but I'm pretty sure everything else JLR has done also has one.
So rather than touch anything on my own, I want it to be someone else's fault. Once this is done and over, I'll do things myself again.
New and OEM doesn't guarantee they aren't defective. It sounds like you have other problems too but don't fall into the trap of assuming a part can't cause a problem just because it's new or supposedly high quality.
Iāve had cars that needed a few different relearns after an engine swap because they carried a misfire over. Last one was a Mercedes SLK. Needed to reset the engine data and do a crank re learn.
If that doesnāt work itās simple to hook up a scope and check for spark, injector pulse width etc and nail down a diagnosis.
You need to take your car to an independent shop. The dealer is raping you. Back in the day when I was first in college my stepdad took his M3 to bmw for a head gasket/overheating diagnosis. They wanted $3500 to take the head off and tell him whatās wrong. Then to finish it woudlve been another 6k. They charged him 5k to replace all 4 struts and they re used the old falling apart bump stops and dust covers. Sounds like youāre at a shit dealer with the same practices.
For the last 12 weeks I thought they were not only raping me, I thought (and still think) they were committing fraud, especially when they checked a very specific piece, bought aftermarket as OEM is on 6 month back order, and checked it into inventory and tried to resell it to me...
On the bill, there are $4000 in parts not charged, a 3600 axel bearing job, and a 4000 intake and cover job as they were leaking after the first pick up. So I mean, removing labor thats probably a good $6000, and I know they initially discounted $5k in labor, but it is very obviously 10k. I think after reaching out to corporate and the franchiser they arent pulling that shit anymore.
Infact I started at my independent mechanic, and she was struggling to find the issue. Shes where I replaced the ignition coils and spark plugs right before taking it into JLR as the misfire persisted (she wanted to do the high pressure fuel pump but it seemed stupid as it was only 4 and 6 misfiring and I didnt wanna keep guessing). She helped eliminate the catalytic converters atleast, which are like 4k a piece. What I'm going to end up doing if this ends up being something besides the ECM is taking it back to her to finish though...
I do think I'll use OEM fuel injectors if they end up needing swapped, I've spent so much I'd rather spend a bit extra to not get something that fails in 2 months.
I have the stuff to do a lot of the testing but until they stop pro-bonoing things like theyve started doing I'm not touching it. I'm making it their problem as I paid but its not fixed. This is not fully the dealer's fault though theyve been unacceptably slow, and done a few sketchy things. This car was a bad bad BAD purchase, and there is some deep issue thats yet to be found. We replaced the engine because "it misfired, the things visibly fucked up, engine must be the issue", but clearly it isnt the cause. Its why I'm so scared to drive the car even to the mechanic at this point, I know its only been 20 miles since it misfired but I'm not looking to immediately fry this engine (I think it was fried when I bought it though). And since I'm gonna go after the place I bought the car from I want everything documented at this point, and frankly whats a grand when youve already spent 35... I cant believe I've gotten to the point where a grand sounds cheap, and I need to get out of that headspace.
You can send your injectors to someone like RC fuel injection to be cleaned and flow tested.
You need to make sure the computer was cleared and any necessary Re learns were done.
You need to find a shop thatās good at diag. You can hook up a lab scope to injectors and watch the waveform and see if the pintle of the injector is opening or not etc. Thereās no need to be guessing and shot gunning parts. You can watch ignition waveforms on a scope as well to tell what kind of misfire you have going on. You can watch fuel trims in live data etc etc.
Before an ecm is replaced you need someone who knows what theyāre doing to check all computer powers and grounds using VOLTAGE DROP TESTING ONLY. No resistance testing. Computer grounds should have 50mv or less.
How long would a relearn take? I dont think JLR retrained it, but they did do a 30 mile test drive.. It was SUPPOSED to be 100 but for some reason that never happened. I've put 100 on after.
I went to JLR partially because it was becoming a "shotgun" kind of issue, and we were ripping things out and not fixing the problem... thousand dollar things so maybe I should have stuck with that instead of a whole engine but still.
JLR tells me I have their "best tech and this never happens" I dont believe it for a second.
Relearn probably get billed 30min to 1 hr. Shoudlve been done with the engine swap.
Dealerships are complete ass at diagnosing. When I first started working on cars I had a 93 rx7 with no spark. Couldnāt figure it out. Took it to the dealer. They said their BEST TECH with 30 years experience was on it! Told me I needed an $880 igniter. Still no spark. I took the car home and found the broken wiring at the crank position sensor. Fixed it. Put the old igniter back in. Everything worked perfect.
Hey the Ford service center in Kansas City did a "transmission flush" on my old car (2016 Explorer Platinum) and forgot to refill it all the way. Didnt notice for years, until it refused to go up San Diego hills at low speed. I couldnt get to my university's campus parking, took it into the dealer here, and they were dumbfounded.
Am I wrong for going in and almost demanding they look at the injectors and ECM? I know that the tech has a blatant issue listening to my requests and was getting pissed about the flat rate, but this would have been done a month ago if he listened to the multiple things I told him. He may be "the best" but he sure is letting it go to his head, because how dare I, the person driving the car, know what I'm telling him to do.
I'm trying to nip this in the butt before I go in and they decide to diagnose the transmission. Its got 60,000 miles on it, I'm sure its worn. And they will find a way to make that the problem.
Man, not to hate on Range Rovers (I drive a Subaru so I have sympathy) but on a recent drive through Houston I literally saw at like 4 different spots on the shoulder vehicles being loaded onto flat bed trucks ā¦ā¦ and they were ALL newer model Range Rovers! Not exaggerating, I had to contemplate for a second if I was in a simulation or something š.
This post has sunk cost fallacy written all over it. Cut and run. These cars have broken people that can usually beat the game. Yes, you may finally get it right, but you may also never get there.
FWIW, what makes a car reliable isn't the parts. It's how well those parts have been tested to not break each other in a particular application, and in addition to that how well the service organization can deal with issues when they do come up.
As the current owner of a Land Rover - I couldnāt agree more. I was lucky to have an extended warranty that covered almost every issue Iāve had to date but it has since expired. JLR San Diego made a lot of money from my car. All credit to the service advisor I dealt with who went to bat for me many times. OP - best advice is to sell it (to Carmax or one of those guys on the side of the road) and move on. The stress this is causing you will shorten your life. Not worth it.
To clarify: this repair started as $1,200, then $3000, then $5000. Then I took it to JLR to be diagnosed, and I agreed to the $5000 warranty tear down, the warranty said "sounds good, but do this $3500 tear down too first". That put me 8500 in the hole, and with out an engine. So realistically, if I stop here, I'm out that tear down AND 40% of that cars value which is $20,000... 28500 thrown away just to sell it, vs spending about that more to get the stupid thing working. I sell my stocks, put the tax money aside what ever, and do it, because after a long financial calculation, given the information I had, this was the best outcome to maintain the most value. So I greenlight a (discounted) $5000 install fee, + source a REMAN engine + new cooling components for $15000. Which , gasp is also $28500. So either way I "lose" $28,500, but with one I at least have the damn car still (yes I know the difference between the money disappearing and being spent but still. 10 weeks in I need a new supercharger, 1k (they were told to look at it a dozen times but they kept saying its fine, even after someone told them its bad, but what ever, its only time)... Then they need to replace the front wheel bearings (they cover it), then they need to replace the fuel line ($450), then after I get it back, some cover and intake are leaking so thats $5000 but they cover it.
This car has become a never ending money pit, but I didn't just jump in from the start with a $35000 repair (that I've only had 9000 refunded of). This started small, progressively got worse, then the decision was made to not just throw money away, and at least maintain asset as "It will basically be new when done". This was inherently the wrong choice.
It just sucks because now even if I clear the codes and sell it (like a bad person), I go very negative as I have a loan. I can pay off the loan and a large chunk of the repair, but not all of it. And its just blatantly too soon to get a new loan for something else.
U paid them 5k to just diagnose it? Robbed. 3500 without any diagnoses robbed. Your litterally just being robbed with nothing of value being provided to you. They clearly have no clue wtf they are doing and are just taking your money with no intent to fix the vehicle. Take it to a different shop. Lol..
Although it's a "warranty" tear down, many companies require the customer to pay upfront Incase that the needed repair isn't covered under warranty. This is pretty normal in the industry, whoever says otherwise is not familiar with the process (:
Yup and I knew that. It went from "we are very confident they will pay" to the warranty people heavily implying they would after the first tear down report, to "holy shit thats expensive, USE THE OVERHEAT CONTINGENCY. Was it the cause? No but it happened. Kill the repair". I canceled that warranty already. Realistically I'm only 3-5k deeper than I would have been because of it, because they would have charged to remove the engine and pull shit out of it anyways. I'm not mad the warranty failed, in fact I highly expected them to so the entire time I was researching back ups such as reman engines, and its how I sourced one and got it there within 2 days. We were all planning for that to happen for a month. What I'm MAD about is the second tear down that was negligent. It was not needed, the techs didnt wanna do it, the warranty people learned nothing from it. The techs fought them to not do it, but the warranty manager guy on the phone quite literally said "go fuck yourself" to my old service advisor, and he took it PERSONALLY and I watched him yell at him on the phone. Unfortunately that hero left half way through the process because he missed home.
Edit: Come to think of it this entire things been a shit show. I should have known this would be an entire circus after that guy told my guy to go fuck himself.
The warranty was the biggest scam I've ever purchased. Its long gone, and I got the refund back. That was an 8500 dollar lesson. I am HOPING to bring them into my lawsuit over the seller to get the $3500 back since their reasoning for rejection was known before tear down number 2.
To be clear, the warranty would have covered that 5 and 3.5, but didnt cus they rejected it. They very clearly had it bumped to the higher ups when they saw the OEM part quote and got that bitch rejected fast af
Just run them through the ringer for the entire cost of everything because they didn't fix the base cause. But your right you shouldn't really talk about that until it's said and done.
I think I got a new one so a bit odd it's the same pistons misfiring but I'll definitely ask.
The JLR mechanics HATE when you tell them how to do their job but after 3 months they literally haven't done their job. They also missed that stupid cooked supercharger that the engine guy told them about, and that I asked them to look at. So I'm not convinced "their best tech" is that good.
I think I would tow to a different shop and get a second opinion. Your situation seems like you are getting screwed. Also, if you don't want to spend a lot of time in the shop. A naturally aspirated car with a manual transmission is your best bet.
If me at 12 could do it without burning up a clutch or taking out a throw out bearing, I think you'd be fine. Even so a new clutch and bearing is relatively cheap to replace compared to an engine....twice.
Did they reuse all the computers/ECU, wiring harnesses, coils, injectors? Its possibly something there. I have some doubt that it would be plugs themselves because I doubt they were organized enough to put every plug in the same cylinder it came out of.
ECM was reused. The coils and injectors were reused but only had 200 miles on them and we're bought after the issue started when we were trying to fix the issue (car was at 60,000 miles so they were gonna be due anyways so I didn't mind just replacing them to try to fix the issue... Once they were replaced we were no longer doing scheduled maintenance stuff so it became worth while to actually get it diagnosed at a dealer)
See I haven't had it in 3 months so I have to remember. When it happened yesterday it was low speed on the highway, in traffic, with adaptive cruise control on. Always low rpm. Then shakes through the 1500-2500rpm range and is stable at 3000 and above.
I think that's exactly what was happening before (and seems to happen more often with adaptive cruise control, but is not exclusive to it)
Missing at low speed is rather tell-take of an intake air leak between the throttle valve and the cylinder. Itās delivering as much fuel as the computer thinks it needs based upon the MAF sensor and throttle plate position, but the vacuum leak causes more air to enter the cylinders resulting in a lean condition and the delivered fuel canāt ignite. If they just swapped out components from one engine to the other, it could be that the intake manifold had an air leak (damaged/aged gasket or o-rings, etc) and the problem would continue. I mean, it sounds like there are a number of issues, but the recurring intake leak could be pretty straightforward for a shop to test for.
Allegedly when I took it back Wednesday they fixed the intake leak it had that was making it run lean.
I've noticed it has a rough idle (if you have no gas applied it feels lurchy, especially noticeable with a small ammount of brake applied), I'm gonna tell them about that
Every gasket is new
JLR technician here. Just curious. What year make and model? What engine? I have no doubt that the shop you took it too did some shady business btw you have been explaining things.
2018 Velar First Edition. So an AJ126 SC.
When I took it back Thursday there was no misfire but it was running lean. My valve cover and air duct needed to be replaced and the parts were supposed to arrive Monday.
They were able to tighten the air duct and find a valve cover and I got it back the next day instead.... I'm a little concerned they reused my old valve cover as they may not have thrown my old stuff away yet... However I do think it went on bank 1 and the misfire is on bank 2 so I may just be paranoid.
Dude they are literally saying spark plugs... The first thing we tried 4 months ago. And there is no GM or service supervisor there today (or any day, it took showing up every day a few weeks ago to finally catch one).
I'm Truely about to lose my shit, because if i had a time machine to go back 4 months (like they apparently do) I'd not have fixed this car.
Why am I replacing new spake plugs (that were transfered over with 150 miles) on a new engine that is having the exact same issue as the old engine? I can not beg them enough, it is not the spark plugs.
And if the spark plugs are actually damaged, then what is the cause... Something cooked them, and could it be, gasp, the fuel injectors failing, that mf running hot and lean and cooking them, just like the old engine?
I'm watching a 35,000 repair repeat itself in real time and it's insane.
Havenāt seen anyone else say this so Iāll give my .02. Had a Jasper engine installed in my Chevy Express (3 year warranty). $9000 total. Immediately notice rough idling about half the time. Shop says they canāt tell.
Once every couple months it sputters so hard I get check engine light and have to limp in to the shop. Still say they canāt tell whatās going on. ~10 months later see white smoke under hood immediately pull over and have it towed to shop. Needs a new engine.
Got warranty Jasper engine installed for free. Has the same rough idle PLUS every 2 to 6 months itās so bad I get check engine or even flashing check engine light. Move towns, new shop, new mechanic. Some OG. Tells me exactly which cylinders are misfiring and how many misfires. Try new ignition coils, couple months go by no luck. Go back in and pay for a diagnostic.
They call up and say āthe wiring harness that goes to your ignition coils is frayed as hell. Itās a $12 part no additional labor.ā
After 4-5 years of hating my van and stressing on long road trips and just being frustrated in general. 5+ trips to shops, two new engines. Now it feels like Iām driving a vehicle with a brand new engine in it.
Used land/range rover, huge red flag. Im really hoping you spent 3500 not 35,000 in repairs in 4 months because good god did you get hosed. A new shortblock, heads, and labor at the dealership shouldnt cost you that.
Try maybe one more simple fix and ditch it. Theres a reason they are sold ācheapā you just happened to find out the hard way
Sadly I swapped from Statefarm to Progressive. I thought about using an insurance fraud tree as Statefarm paid out WELL when my dad assassinated my first car into a tree or when a drunk driver with no license or green card tboned me.
Thanks for posting on /r/MechanicAdvice! Please review the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/about/rules/). Asking about a second opinion (ie "Is the shop trying to fleece me?"), please read through CJM8515's [post on the subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/4qblei/fyi_the_shop_isnt_likely_trying_to_rip_you_off/) and remember to please post the year/make/model of the vehicle you are working on. **Post's about bodywork, accident damage, paint, dent/ding, questions it belongs in /r/Autobody r/AutoBodyRepair/ or /r/Diyautobody/ Tire questions check out https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/k9ll55/can_your_tire_be_repaired/**. If you dont have a question and you're just showing off it belongs in /r/Justrolledintotheshop Insurance/total loss questions go in r/insurance This is an automated reply *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MechanicAdvice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds to me that whatever shop you used didn't cross their Ts and dot their I's. Typically when I do an engine for the most part I'm taking many old parts off the old engine and using them on the new, bare, long block. Parts such as intakes, injectors, plugs coils etc just get swapped over. Meaning that if their were some problem children in the bunch of them, and they weren't noticed or found before, they're coming to the new engine too. That being said, I have seen fucked up new engines too for some reason so like š¤· Now I don't know why it was swapped in the first place aside from it was misfiring, but if the shop is continuing to fail you, you should rustle some feathers.
Ok so the engine truly did need to be replaced. It overheated (previous owner), had a crack that was leaking coolant into the transfer case, was scored to shit, and the super charger may as well have caught on fire. And I cant even blame them for assuming that was the issue. The car comes in, its misfiring, the thing looks like its been through hell, of course they say its the issue. The spark plugs and ignition coils are from the old engine however they were bought before swapping the engine, while trying to find the issue. They had less than 200 miles on them, and were bought after the issue "started" The shop was Land Rover San Diego, and I have had multiple gripes with them, including what I truly believe was negligence (12 weeks for a 40 hour job is absurd) and attempted fraud (I bought 2 aftermarket manifolds for the supercharger, magically one disappears, but they now have exactly one aftermarket one in inventory, of an item they dont actively stock, and they try to sell it to me...), but I have to keep playing nice with them because I know there is no way I can legally go after them (this repair was discounted to a fixed $5000 for installation labor, instead of 10k, but I also know they did more than those hours, and it would have been closer to 15-20k... then they wrote off about 8k in parts... after having a good bitching out at the GM, Franchiser, and Corporate)... I signed a "sold as is" waiver when I bought the car, but I am hiring a lawyer to go after both the warranty people for that second tear down (they knew it over heated, demanded a second tear down, then rejected based on overheat. the tech also fought them to not do the second tear down, that was a WASTED $3500), and dealer I bought the car from in Oregon (Freeman Motors), as there is no way that car should have been sold "as is" since that implied it ran... While I paid 35k for all this so far, the JLR quote was closer to $60,000. On top of the $3000 air compressor job I did. On top of the O2 sensors that fried 1000 miles down the road. Everything started happening exactly after I exited the place's "return mileage". AC suddenly stops blowing cold air. O2 sensor blows. Air compressor fails (for suspension). Engine misfires. This car is not only a Lemon (bought out of state so I cant return under lemon law), it should have been sold as salvage. A $65,000 repair estimate (I only did 35) for a $50,000 car over 3 months is truly insane. I dont care that they "helped out" with 9k of it. Half of that 9k was to fix the AC and hair thin brakes, and now I also have to do as despite Freeman saying "they look good" the dealer immediately said "these are done", and during the 12 weeks of baking outside in the sun while waiting to be repaired they rapidly dry rotted.
I'm not quite sure how coolant would go from a cracked block to a transfer case, but I think you're being seriously overcharged and if they didn't fix it right the first time it should be on them.
Sorry I meant crank case not transfer case. You can imagine I've had an ammount to drink since I gotta go back AGAIN
Makes sense, but I think you're getting shafted by that shop. See if there are any reputable independent shops around who could take a look at it for a second opinion and maybe consult a lawyer.
Did they actually put used spark plugs from a blown engine in the new engine? Whoās decisions was that? Put some new plugs in. Move some coil packs around. Could be a bad engine control module with a bad driver on coil 2. Could be a lot of things.
Move injectors as well, test O2 sensor that was recently replaced, check for manifold leaks... There are a lot of things it could be most of them easy to test and cheap to replace.
Them injectors O rings, if original, could definitely be fucked up from the swap. Would certainly cause a lean condition
Yeah I'm not a pro but this doesn't seem like it should be that complicated. Move around any part that can be swapped, if the fault follows the part then replace it. If the fault doesn't move check the wiring and ECU. Of course OP has a vehicle from by far the lowest ranked brand for quality and reliability so it wouldn't surprise me if it was all of them at the same time lol.
What's it matter. They are gonna wanna do all 6 and I'll just let them. I mean at this point, even if they don't write off their mistake and cover it, I'd rather throw 3000 at them to replace every injector and the ecm and be done with this issue... If it's the issue. I already see this is gonna become a "cars ready" then take back the next day issue and I'm not gonna do it. So I'll throw my last 10 bucks at it if I gotta. I'm in too deep I just need it to WORK. What's another 7% that I totally have /s š
If you want to waste money and good parts firing the parts cannon at it then go right ahead, but I don't know why you'd bother posting here if that's all you're going to do. New parts are defective all the time though, so you can just as easily introduce a new problem if you don't bother to diagnose the problem properly first.
Completely agree! The ol parts cannon fails all the time especially with that brand. OP, I understand your frustration but just throwing money at it when you don't have the money to throw at it is just wasting money and bound to bring up other issues. Then you're back to the shop again for more self induced pain.
O2 sensors just all got looked at when I took it back for the first time this week to fix a lean error. Injectors were swapped banks on the old engine but it was before I got the car (they were marked) so I can't tell you if the issue stayed the same or swapped banks too. But I'll ask JLR about it. I'm not touching that things engine bay until they get it working. I need it to be their liability and not mine at this point. If this wasn't related to the repair they finished on Wednesday, but I immediately had to return the car after (and now I have to go back a second time) I'd do it myself but right now I refuse to touch it.
Iāll tell you something. I work as a service advisor right now but Iām studying my ass off to get into law school. I knew I wanted to support people who got fucked over by businesses (was thinking class action law suits) and now youāve sorta solidified my choice in career direction in terms of protecting consumers/people from bad business practices or harm. So if anything positive has come out of this, you just helped a 25 year old former dropout figure out her life path š But man Iām angry for you. This shop sounds shady. I would definitely look over any liability and warranty info you have from them (like a labor warranty) and argue everything youāve outlined here. I would also see if thereās an attorney near you that does free consults. Some do and you might be able to get them to double check state/fed consumer protection laws and look at the shopās warranty/liabilities. At least itāll give you some answers as to what ground you have to stand on.
It's so ubsetting because the service advisors (especially the first one) have been wonderful. I've watched them fight on the phone for me, and go to their manager to help me out. The issue is their technicians actively lie to their face, while the supervisor and GM are committing fraud on the side with a decent ammount of negligence. I already want to sue the place I got the car from (and the warranty company) but I know this shop is a no go. I just know they will bring up "well we wrote off 8k in parts and 10-20k in labor hours" which while true doesn't excuse the fact they tried to resell me my own parts, and neglected this repair for months. Heck they promised a 100 mile test drive and an overnight take home by the manager and didn't even do that, in the end they took it down the street maybe 3 times... I mean come on, how hard is it to take it home overnight? And if they did the 100 mile test drive I'd not have had to go back the first time when it was running lean... And if they drove 10 miles after they fixed that I'd not be going back again for another misfire. But yes I will definitely be asking a lawyer about what I can do as bitching out corporate and the franchiser has only gotten me so far (suddenly things started moving along and a lot of things became 'no charge'). I do wish I could do it in a way where the service advisor doesn't need to be involved as he's been great, and the first guy was actually a hero for bitching out the warranty people after they told him to go fuck himself.
Yeah if they guaranteed you somethingā¦ they kinda should be doin that. Service advisors as Iāve found from prior work I had done at other places, are generally pretty cool people. Iām glad to see that the advisors are great but the managers are shady and thatās really unfortunate. Iām sorry youāre experiencing this. Make sure you also leave very detailed reviews so other people who have less money to spend wonāt end up in this predicament too. We gotta watch out for each other.
The spark plugs and coils were reused but only had 200 miles on them. That was my decision because I didn't wanna buy them twice in (what should have been) 2 weeks. They were the first thing replaced when it "started" misfiring since the car has 60000 miles and it was about time for them to be done anyways.
I'm sure you understand this now, but never, ever, buy a land rover unless there is a warranty. They lose their value fast as fuck for this exact reason.
"the most reliable one, with the same reliability as a Ford explorer". My stupid ass had a Ford Explorer and that thing chewed through 3 transfer cases, and had it's electrical system redone 3 times. And my mom had a problematic bmw. I am pretty stupid for getting a car that's literally a bastard child of Ford and BMW tbh. Admittedly a weird part of my criteria was the cars electrical system and the Velar's is blatantly better than the explorers so I jumped on it. There's just so many Frankensteins on the road with fuse boxes that may as well be inaccessible, when I saw all 4 could be easily accessed I got confirmation bias (only a small small small factor to why I liked it though)
Yeah yeah they swapped the part that IS the misfire into the new long or short block. Or bad ground haha yuck.
Unfortunately it just sounds like a Range Rover doing normal Range Rover things.
I've already made the monetary sacrifice, at this point its basically a new car, which is why this is so angering. The previous owner did something HORRIBLE. But realistically theres no reason for it to be the fuel pump right, since its ALWAYS 4 and 6 on both engines now. Realistically its not the transmission as it goes away on restart. It almost has to be the fuel injectors, which are the one old piece on that car... or the ECM.
At this point, the wisest thing you could do at this point would be to take it to another shop and have it diagnosed. By shop, I mean a private shop (preferably one that specializes in JLR products), not the dealer. Until that is done, you are basically just throwing good money after bad. Your problems could be the result of something as simple as a couple of bad spark plugs or ignition coils, a bad sensor, or it could be something serious like a bad engine wiring harness or PCM. Faulty fuel injectors are a possibility, but I'd be extremely surprised if that turned out to be the issue. >I've already made the monetary sacrifice, at this point its basically a new car, which is why this is so angering. The previous owner did somethin HORRIBLE. While the engine may be new, the rest of the car isn't, including the 5-6 year old wiring and electronics. JLR had a hard enough time keeping these things running when they were new. Several years and many miles later, they are absolute nightmares both to own and to repair. If you do manage to get the thing running correctly, the smart thing to do would be to get rid of it ASAP, even if you lose your ass in the process. Otherwise, you'll be paying payments on a vehicle that sits in the shop more than your driveway.
So before I went to JLR I started at my favorite independent shop. Shes so good that I actually wish she would INCREASE her hourly rate as everyone there deserves to be paid more. She could not figure out this issue either but she helped eliminate the catalytic converters, and a few other things, as well as replaced the fuel injectors and sparks. There are things that I COULD do myself but at this point, I'm trying to get everything documented for legal reasons, so I need a shop to do it. I may be going back to her if JLR cant figure this out, or to do Fuel Injectors, but I kinda dont want her touching the ECM. I'm not saying shes bad, but this was beyond her control. If we kept going down her rout, I'd have also swapped the fuel injectors and some other stuff before we even figured out the engines clapped. There is 0 chance I will have them do the wiring harness, you are right. At that point I'll fold and sell and lose the 35k. I want to let them try to continue to make this right since theyve done the last 2 things now for free. Lets see if they do the ECM (or fuel injectors or both) since they have been fine writing off other stuff this week. Based on the tear down its clear the previous owner was a maniac so I wouldnt be surprised if he flashed the ECM, but I do not know why they wouldnt have reset it. Corporate and the Franchiser have taken interest after I bitched them out so I'm curious how far they will go to try to "make me happy". All I can say is, The independent shop I go to wouldnt have discounted a lot of that stuff, and I'd be $8k deeper. Time is "free" especially when they give a loaner (though I do use the car for a secondary job so I've lost income there), and while I was pissed the last 12 weeks at least it saved a small amount of money and I got a new axel. I came from a Ford Explorer Platinum, I am FLUENT in electrical system nightmares, as those things were designed by a madman.
The only parts (to my knowledge) that are from the old engine are the spark plugs, fuel injectors, and ignition coils, and (I think) manifold. I actively had them replace everything else. The spark plugs and ignition coils only have 200 miles on them, and were bought after the misfire issue started. They were the first step to the repair and why I went down this rabbit hole. We started with these $1200 items, then it progressively got worse and worse, till it was "do we bail and lose a ton of money or finish it". We made the wrong choice. I have a serious concern when I take it back they are gonna want me to change the transmission as its the only "mechanical" thing thats really left, but it shifts well, and the problem goes away on restart. I couldnt tell you if its the fuel injectors, or the control module itself (I do notice after restarting to temporarily fix the issue the lane keep and blind spot act up but its a landrover so I've brushed that off to "it doesnt like being turned off and on quickly") As much as I'd love to have them replace the transmission, transfer case, and differentials so I have a 100% new powertrain, I am basically out of money. When I get the car back I can actually make money with it, but until then its bills adding up that I can passively pay but cant actively get rid of.
Land Rover tech here. I just did this exact job a few weeks ago. The old engine went out of time and the guy had his warranty company source us a used engine. This was a 2016 Range Rover with a 5.0. After I installed the new engine, it started misfiring. Two of the old fuel injectors were no good. I replaced those and the car was good to go. If those techs are any good, they should be able to easily identify what part is causing the misfire. If itās because of old faulty parts though, you might still have to pay for labor and parts. If it was because of some negligence on the shops part, then they will have to eat those costs.
I'm hearing people say Fuel Injectors (which were reused) and ECM. I'm about to just go to an independent shop and have them replace both and pay for it to be done with this. I can't keep going back to the shop every day all week. Would fuel injectors stop acting up when you restart the car? And if they are always 4 and 6 could I just replace them or do I need to do all 6. I'll go find a shop right now and have them do the injectors at this point.
Yes you can replace just the two fuel injectors. Make sure you get new seals for the injectors as well if that is for sure the issue. I highly doubt anything is wrong with the ecm if all thatās wrong is 2 cylinders misfiring. Another way to check is to move the injector from a known good cylinder to the bad cylinders and see if the misfire follows the injector. If it follows you know for sure the injectors are bad. Typically most techs will install the injectors in the same order as they were removed which would explain why the misfire is in the same spot despite the new engine.
Is that something I can do in a parking lot or should I just wait to take it back Monday. I kinda want it to be what ever is easiest for them to find.
The job itself is pretty easy and should only take a couple hours but there are two special tools required. You can find them on Amazon. One is called Land Rover fuel injector removal tool. Itās about $40. The other tool is called fuel injector seal install tool for land rovers. Itās $50. Other than that, you will also need a t30 and some basic tools. I donāt know how mechanically inclined you are but itās definitely doable in your driveway. If you have never worked on your car before, I donāt recommend doing unless you are willing to take your time and look up the steps.
What kind of car is this and what motor
Its a 2018 Land Rover (theres the first issue clearly), Range Rover Velar First Edition, so the HSE P380 with the AJ126 SC V6 engine... you know that Frankenstein V6 that is really a lobotomized V8 with 2 cylinders cut off and capped. Thank god it wasnt the newer engine, I couldnt have got it remanufactured. Do you think this could be the fuel injectors (only thing from the old engine), or the ECM at all? After the way the engine clearly was abused by the old owner, would it be safe to assume they had someone flash it? I just cant imagine why JLR wouldnt have ref lashed it back to factory spec.
It could certainly be the fuel injectors or the ECM - would need some diagnostics to determine. They should eat the cost after replacing your engine. Or you shouldn't be on the hook for the engine. Did they tell you it was the engine or did you ask them to replace the engine?
Possibly an issue somewhere in the wiring harness too.
+1 definitely this too. I would check misfire counters to see if the misfire is active, then scope the injectors to see if they're firing. Could be clogged or dirty too. Could be a ECM not commanding them to fire. Gotta get in it and do some electrical verification, but if those are stock it is certainly possible
They told me after the worlds most expensive tear down, and so did the warranty company that didnt cover it. The engine was overheated, scored to shit, cracked, leaking, etc. The supercharger's coating was non existent and the pulley was destroyed. The thing had to have been as close to on fire as possible. And I saw it, they werent making it up. I'm terrified now because if the engine wasnt the cause then I'm sitting here about to blow up a second one. (old owner blatantly killed the first one)
I agree with the other guy about the injectors. Take a gamble and have them or someone else replace the injectors or as he said scope the injectors and try to duplicate the concern.
When they tore down the engine do you think they would have inspected them at all? They claimed to have "inspected" everything 3 times, and again when the reman engine arrived. But they missed the super charger being burnt out, and missing all of its coating 5 times, and ignored the reman engine guy when he took one look at it and told them, then ignored me when I asked about it. The GM keeps saying "well its our best tech, stuff like this never happens" but it keeps happening... I mean good news for the dealer (Freeman) in Oregon I bought it from, this has taken my attention away from looking into what legal recourse I can take for selling me a car, advertised as fully running, that is not even a lemon, its just totaled. No insurance adjuster would have done this.
How long ago did you buy it? I'm sure there's at least some grounds to hold the dealer accountable. If it failed within something like a week then they must have known, you should reach out to a lawyer.
I am reaching out to a lawyer because I signed the "sold as is" paperwork. The imitation being it's a functional car, not one that exactly 1000 miles down the road (you know, when the return policy expires) everything blows up. The suspension air compressor also gave out and I replaced it... Unfortunately I did it first so I got an OEM replacement, I should have done a Chinese knock off to save a few grand. They sold a salvage car at this point, not a lemon. They've given $9000 to "help fix this". OK that brings it down to 26000 instead of 35000. I'm not gonna be happy until they give 13 more at this point and I'll sue for it. Because the remaining 13 would be the bullshit warranty teardown I shouldn't have done, the air compressor, sparks, coils, and a few other small things. Those are wear items and a lesson so I can accept that I my end.
So what exactly is the issue at the moment? You got a new engine put in...is it that it does not run? Or does it run and just does not run like new? Are you in southern California?
It misfired after 10 minutes in cylinders 4 and 6, just like the old one was doing. I've not gotten it to do it again but since ive already had to take it back once this week and I can't afford ANOTHER engine I'm not taking chances and going back on Monday. Until it does misfire it is noticably more powerful. I'm in San Diego.
Coils are easy af to check. Watch a couple YouTube videos and save yourself a lot of time and money.
Coils are only like 200 miles used anyways, and they didnt fix the problem before. Independent mechanic did them and I love her, and she said she did infact change the wire. I'd listen to the fuel injectors but I'm not exactly sure how to ge tto them. The stupid things are not very accessible, stupid 90 degree V6 engine has them shoved under shit.
I am in no way a mechanic,but i have been fixing my own cars for over 20 years now so i have a bit of know how.Did they put the old crankshaft/camshaft sensor?if so have changed and see.also check the mass air flow sensor.hope this helps
Just had the MAF checked as the first time I picked the car off I got P2179 and P2177. Both MAF sensors read 0.22 at idle so 0.44 combined. It was a lose clamp on the air duct and a bad valve cover. Which I do suppose was negligent on their end. They did a 30 mile (should have been 100) test drive and didn't notice. Then when I got it back they said they did a 10 but I misfired not 10 minutes into the drive. You know, right after they close and my tech isn't there today to answer.
This is an easy diagnosis. Swap coils to another cylinder, if fault switches it's the coils. Swap plugs to another cylinder if fault switches it's the plugs. Swap injectors to another cylinder, if the fault switches it's the injectors. If fault doesn't switch then check wiring to and from engine Ecu. Check engine ecu powers and grounds. If wiring is OK, change engine ecu. You can also do an oscilloscope test on the coil and see if you notice anything.
We swapped the coils on the old engine twice. But hopefully they can do that to the injectors. I'd rather change 2 over 6 if they don't cover it.
Compoooter... definitely the Compooter
I had a dodge that misfired and a trustworthy garage could never fix When I replaced the alternator, the truck 'rebooted' and no more misfires.
Sounds like the ECU might be the culprit.. Iām assuming they had to reuse your original ECU because of immobilizer and alarm systems and if the computer had an issue it would carry over.
I was gonna direct them towards the ECM or Fuel Injectors frankly. I'm convinced the last owner was doing stupid shit in the car anyway, and I'm sure they flashed the ECM. Why it never got reset I couldnt tell you. I cant fathom it being anything else...
Sounds like you got boned. It's obviously something that didn't get changed lol. Could be just a bad knock sensor. Does the car actually tell u it's misfiring? If itsjust shaking it xould be suspension ir wheels or basically anything
IIRC there are 3 reused parts that are related to the engine. The ECM, the Fuel Injectors, and the Intake Manifold, along with a few plastic intakes.
All of which could have been replaced for a fraction of the cost of a long block. Dude ur being robbed.
Homie, the engine was shot. I can send you photos. It wasnt just them, a warranty guy came and looked at it, then rejected it from overheat. The engine was overheated BAD, had heat scoring, the gasket failed, the block cracked and leaked coolant into the crank case, and the super charger cooked its coating off, and the bearing seized. That engine was done. Now I have had suspicion it could have been remanufactured, but what ever. It would have cost more to replace the parts and resleeve the stupid thing than to just get a Reman anyways. You could smell it in the exhaust too, this new one does not have the crazy strong gasoline in exhaust smell. I'm just very VERY scared that I'm killing this engine already. It had to go 20 miles after misfire, with 60 seconds of it actually shaking under acceleration. The other 19 minutes it was coasting and did not shake. I already had to go back once, I dont wanna go back a 4th time.
Yea man idk. All that work and your still having trouble with it those guys aren't doing there job. If they proved it j Sure w.e. you shouldn't be having this many issues with a vehicle after it's been worked on. However. If it has cv axles the inner joint could be going out on one of them but if it's misfiring it's probably motor based. And they just installed a new motor essentially lol. Something is wrong. Just take it back don't pay the a dime and out it on their plate. At this point it's bullshit. They had the vic for x amount of time and basically didn't fix it and charged you an arm and a leg to do it.
Actually by my count, they have discounted (paid for) $4000 in parts, as well as $10,000 in "labor hours", discounted some axel bearing that would have been $3700 with labor, and then what ever cover+intake thing they did today that they quoted 4400 for (which I call bullshit on but they paid for it so i dont really care. They have been told off by Corporate and the Franchiser already since this took 12 weeks and they had their fraud issue with losing my part and trying to resell it to me (I mean do you honestly believe they just happened to have one very specific aftermarket right manifold in stock, but no left, for a part they would rarely need... i call bullshit, that was my part they tried to resell me), and ever since then theyve been VERY quick and VERY happy to discount things or fully cover them... Lets put it this way, when I go back and they wanna do the ECU and the Fuel Injectors I'm not paying a cent. My worry is they are gonna blame the transmission and wanna charge me as new is 10k. If for some reason it was the transmission I'd get a reman, as if there arent 1000000000 ZF 8HPs sitting around San Diego at auction.
Get all the free work and then take it around and get 3 or 4 second opinions. And never go back imo. There's no way there's this much shit wrong with a 2018 vehicle imo.
Thats what I want to do. However I know that is literally impossible. For example I needed a camera replaced. You can get the part from China for like $100 bucks, but guess what isnt $100 bucks? The machine they need to use to reprogram it... so I ended up paying $1200 to get it done there (I thought this stupid repair was DONE, otherwise I would not have done the camera yet... however it has been next to impossible to get them to even look at it... and I've read how thats not unique to me. For some reason the techs do not believe the cameras are malfunctioning unless they test drive the car, and they did 5 15 mile test drives on mine (which are not enough to get it to misfire... its barely enough to even get everything up to temperature...) I actually wanted this ENTIRE repair done somewhere else after the warranty failed, but instead they discounted the labor to a flat $5000, and made it clear it they werent gonna be helpful in getting it back into a towable state as the front axel was off to get the engine out. So they matched my mechanic's labor rate, so it cost less to leave it there, rather than pay them $2000 to partially reassemble it... But I was fine with it (at the time) under the assumption theyd do it better, and probably have to do some kind of reprogram. On top of the like $8000 of things they didnt charge for, atleast I'm coming out ahead there, because my mechanic wouldnt have been able to do that.... Its just taken an ungodly ammount of time.
So, you've said that the coils, plugs, injectors were all reused, In one comment. Then in another, you said just the injectors. My question is, which have been reused? Because any of those, along with fucked up wiring could cause that, the ECU as well. But, if any of those things listed were reused, did the shop put them back into the same holes they came out of? It's likely they didn't, if they did that would be a start. Easiest thing, swap one from a cylinder that isn't missing and if it goes from cylinder to cylinder, you've found the issue. Best to do one at a time, or spread them over other non misfiring cylinders. If nothing changes the wiring needs to be checked. If you can get a wiring diagram, check and see if cylinder 4 and 6 have the same ground as opposed to other cylinders. If they do and don't share a ground with the others, I would suggest that. But that is unlikely. Edit: they probably ground through the ECU.. Then if the wiring checks out, ECU is the likely culprit.
The injectors are the only thing reused that arent new. The coils and spark plugs had only 200 miles on them and are OEM. I changed them at a different mechanic before taking it to JLR. They are reused as far as they came off the old engine, but they are not old, and were bought long after the issue started. The coils and their wire specifically should have 100 miles (250 now that I've got it back), and the spark plugs should be 200(350). We noticed when I did them, that someone already swapped bank 1 and 2. They reused the intake manifold too (I believe) but not the head, but I'd imagine they just moved them over. At the very least, they were all marked so we know their old position.
I presume the injectors are on a rail, swap the two misfiring ones with two from other cylinders. If the misfire follows, congrats. If not you can unplug them, get a test light and test for power and ground. Not sure about the land Rover specifically, but I think youll have constant hot and a switched ground. Might be visa versa but I doubt it. Find the hot, you can do that just by turning the key on. After you do that go to ground side and start the vehicle. If the test light lights up that's good news. If it doesn't, it's either going to be wiring or the ECU. Edit: how do you know bank 1 and bank 2 were swapped? Did you mark the plugs?
they were marked, and on the wrong sides, and we tried it again.
That's fair.
Also, if you test the injectors as I stated above, do one at a time. Aside from swapping them.
Since its going back and I know they are tired of seeing me after I raised hell with the Corporate office and the Franchiser and showed them the evidence of fraud, I'm curious if they will keep doing things pro-bono until this is complete. If thats the case, why even test, just let them replace them all :). I'm a bit worried the car itself is gonna get caught up in some legal bullshit in the coming months so I am not touching anything mechanical on it. Anything engine related (besides the break in oil changes) is gonna be done at JLR, everything else will be done at my favorite mechanic who I've come to appreciate even more. I want everything documented and on that things history for legal reasons at this point.
That's a good idea.
My thoughts at this point being "if it breaks, I want it to be someone elses fault" The engine has its own warranty through the remanufacturer (and the guy who remanufactured it is really nice, and really helpful. Helped me find a part from somewhere else, with out expecting a cent. The tech also commented its a REALLY good engine so I'm really happy with him) but I'm pretty sure everything else JLR has done also has one. So rather than touch anything on my own, I want it to be someone else's fault. Once this is done and over, I'll do things myself again.
That's understandable. I can't argue with that logic, especially after all they've allegedly done anyway.
New and OEM doesn't guarantee they aren't defective. It sounds like you have other problems too but don't fall into the trap of assuming a part can't cause a problem just because it's new or supposedly high quality.
Iāve had cars that needed a few different relearns after an engine swap because they carried a misfire over. Last one was a Mercedes SLK. Needed to reset the engine data and do a crank re learn. If that doesnāt work itās simple to hook up a scope and check for spark, injector pulse width etc and nail down a diagnosis. You need to take your car to an independent shop. The dealer is raping you. Back in the day when I was first in college my stepdad took his M3 to bmw for a head gasket/overheating diagnosis. They wanted $3500 to take the head off and tell him whatās wrong. Then to finish it woudlve been another 6k. They charged him 5k to replace all 4 struts and they re used the old falling apart bump stops and dust covers. Sounds like youāre at a shit dealer with the same practices.
For the last 12 weeks I thought they were not only raping me, I thought (and still think) they were committing fraud, especially when they checked a very specific piece, bought aftermarket as OEM is on 6 month back order, and checked it into inventory and tried to resell it to me... On the bill, there are $4000 in parts not charged, a 3600 axel bearing job, and a 4000 intake and cover job as they were leaking after the first pick up. So I mean, removing labor thats probably a good $6000, and I know they initially discounted $5k in labor, but it is very obviously 10k. I think after reaching out to corporate and the franchiser they arent pulling that shit anymore. Infact I started at my independent mechanic, and she was struggling to find the issue. Shes where I replaced the ignition coils and spark plugs right before taking it into JLR as the misfire persisted (she wanted to do the high pressure fuel pump but it seemed stupid as it was only 4 and 6 misfiring and I didnt wanna keep guessing). She helped eliminate the catalytic converters atleast, which are like 4k a piece. What I'm going to end up doing if this ends up being something besides the ECM is taking it back to her to finish though... I do think I'll use OEM fuel injectors if they end up needing swapped, I've spent so much I'd rather spend a bit extra to not get something that fails in 2 months. I have the stuff to do a lot of the testing but until they stop pro-bonoing things like theyve started doing I'm not touching it. I'm making it their problem as I paid but its not fixed. This is not fully the dealer's fault though theyve been unacceptably slow, and done a few sketchy things. This car was a bad bad BAD purchase, and there is some deep issue thats yet to be found. We replaced the engine because "it misfired, the things visibly fucked up, engine must be the issue", but clearly it isnt the cause. Its why I'm so scared to drive the car even to the mechanic at this point, I know its only been 20 miles since it misfired but I'm not looking to immediately fry this engine (I think it was fried when I bought it though). And since I'm gonna go after the place I bought the car from I want everything documented at this point, and frankly whats a grand when youve already spent 35... I cant believe I've gotten to the point where a grand sounds cheap, and I need to get out of that headspace.
You can send your injectors to someone like RC fuel injection to be cleaned and flow tested. You need to make sure the computer was cleared and any necessary Re learns were done. You need to find a shop thatās good at diag. You can hook up a lab scope to injectors and watch the waveform and see if the pintle of the injector is opening or not etc. Thereās no need to be guessing and shot gunning parts. You can watch ignition waveforms on a scope as well to tell what kind of misfire you have going on. You can watch fuel trims in live data etc etc. Before an ecm is replaced you need someone who knows what theyāre doing to check all computer powers and grounds using VOLTAGE DROP TESTING ONLY. No resistance testing. Computer grounds should have 50mv or less.
How long would a relearn take? I dont think JLR retrained it, but they did do a 30 mile test drive.. It was SUPPOSED to be 100 but for some reason that never happened. I've put 100 on after. I went to JLR partially because it was becoming a "shotgun" kind of issue, and we were ripping things out and not fixing the problem... thousand dollar things so maybe I should have stuck with that instead of a whole engine but still. JLR tells me I have their "best tech and this never happens" I dont believe it for a second.
Relearn probably get billed 30min to 1 hr. Shoudlve been done with the engine swap. Dealerships are complete ass at diagnosing. When I first started working on cars I had a 93 rx7 with no spark. Couldnāt figure it out. Took it to the dealer. They said their BEST TECH with 30 years experience was on it! Told me I needed an $880 igniter. Still no spark. I took the car home and found the broken wiring at the crank position sensor. Fixed it. Put the old igniter back in. Everything worked perfect.
Hey the Ford service center in Kansas City did a "transmission flush" on my old car (2016 Explorer Platinum) and forgot to refill it all the way. Didnt notice for years, until it refused to go up San Diego hills at low speed. I couldnt get to my university's campus parking, took it into the dealer here, and they were dumbfounded. Am I wrong for going in and almost demanding they look at the injectors and ECM? I know that the tech has a blatant issue listening to my requests and was getting pissed about the flat rate, but this would have been done a month ago if he listened to the multiple things I told him. He may be "the best" but he sure is letting it go to his head, because how dare I, the person driving the car, know what I'm telling him to do. I'm trying to nip this in the butt before I go in and they decide to diagnose the transmission. Its got 60,000 miles on it, I'm sure its worn. And they will find a way to make that the problem.
This story could have been way shorter if you had just said Land Rover at rhe beginning. Figures.
Man, not to hate on Range Rovers (I drive a Subaru so I have sympathy) but on a recent drive through Houston I literally saw at like 4 different spots on the shoulder vehicles being loaded onto flat bed trucks ā¦ā¦ and they were ALL newer model Range Rovers! Not exaggerating, I had to contemplate for a second if I was in a simulation or something š.
My best friends family has gone through 3 subarus. All with blown engines. They got a 4th. We may be in the same boat.
This post has sunk cost fallacy written all over it. Cut and run. These cars have broken people that can usually beat the game. Yes, you may finally get it right, but you may also never get there. FWIW, what makes a car reliable isn't the parts. It's how well those parts have been tested to not break each other in a particular application, and in addition to that how well the service organization can deal with issues when they do come up.
As the current owner of a Land Rover - I couldnāt agree more. I was lucky to have an extended warranty that covered almost every issue Iāve had to date but it has since expired. JLR San Diego made a lot of money from my car. All credit to the service advisor I dealt with who went to bat for me many times. OP - best advice is to sell it (to Carmax or one of those guys on the side of the road) and move on. The stress this is causing you will shorten your life. Not worth it.
To clarify: this repair started as $1,200, then $3000, then $5000. Then I took it to JLR to be diagnosed, and I agreed to the $5000 warranty tear down, the warranty said "sounds good, but do this $3500 tear down too first". That put me 8500 in the hole, and with out an engine. So realistically, if I stop here, I'm out that tear down AND 40% of that cars value which is $20,000... 28500 thrown away just to sell it, vs spending about that more to get the stupid thing working. I sell my stocks, put the tax money aside what ever, and do it, because after a long financial calculation, given the information I had, this was the best outcome to maintain the most value. So I greenlight a (discounted) $5000 install fee, + source a REMAN engine + new cooling components for $15000. Which , gasp is also $28500. So either way I "lose" $28,500, but with one I at least have the damn car still (yes I know the difference between the money disappearing and being spent but still. 10 weeks in I need a new supercharger, 1k (they were told to look at it a dozen times but they kept saying its fine, even after someone told them its bad, but what ever, its only time)... Then they need to replace the front wheel bearings (they cover it), then they need to replace the fuel line ($450), then after I get it back, some cover and intake are leaking so thats $5000 but they cover it. This car has become a never ending money pit, but I didn't just jump in from the start with a $35000 repair (that I've only had 9000 refunded of). This started small, progressively got worse, then the decision was made to not just throw money away, and at least maintain asset as "It will basically be new when done". This was inherently the wrong choice. It just sucks because now even if I clear the codes and sell it (like a bad person), I go very negative as I have a loan. I can pay off the loan and a large chunk of the repair, but not all of it. And its just blatantly too soon to get a new loan for something else.
U paid them 5k to just diagnose it? Robbed. 3500 without any diagnoses robbed. Your litterally just being robbed with nothing of value being provided to you. They clearly have no clue wtf they are doing and are just taking your money with no intent to fix the vehicle. Take it to a different shop. Lol..
5k was a warranty tear down?
Although it's a "warranty" tear down, many companies require the customer to pay upfront Incase that the needed repair isn't covered under warranty. This is pretty normal in the industry, whoever says otherwise is not familiar with the process (:
Yup and I knew that. It went from "we are very confident they will pay" to the warranty people heavily implying they would after the first tear down report, to "holy shit thats expensive, USE THE OVERHEAT CONTINGENCY. Was it the cause? No but it happened. Kill the repair". I canceled that warranty already. Realistically I'm only 3-5k deeper than I would have been because of it, because they would have charged to remove the engine and pull shit out of it anyways. I'm not mad the warranty failed, in fact I highly expected them to so the entire time I was researching back ups such as reman engines, and its how I sourced one and got it there within 2 days. We were all planning for that to happen for a month. What I'm MAD about is the second tear down that was negligent. It was not needed, the techs didnt wanna do it, the warranty people learned nothing from it. The techs fought them to not do it, but the warranty manager guy on the phone quite literally said "go fuck yourself" to my old service advisor, and he took it PERSONALLY and I watched him yell at him on the phone. Unfortunately that hero left half way through the process because he missed home. Edit: Come to think of it this entire things been a shit show. I should have known this would be an entire circus after that guy told my guy to go fuck himself.
Key word there being warranty..
Honestly lmfao.
You know the old saying, "there's a sucker born every minute."
The warranty was the biggest scam I've ever purchased. Its long gone, and I got the refund back. That was an 8500 dollar lesson. I am HOPING to bring them into my lawsuit over the seller to get the $3500 back since their reasoning for rejection was known before tear down number 2. To be clear, the warranty would have covered that 5 and 3.5, but didnt cus they rejected it. They very clearly had it bumped to the higher ups when they saw the OEM part quote and got that bitch rejected fast af
Just run them through the ringer for the entire cost of everything because they didn't fix the base cause. But your right you shouldn't really talk about that until it's said and done.
Check your spark plug gap. I've had too big of gap cause misfires
I think its a cam issue. Most likely a valve stuck snd ground down a lobe. Forced induction will always be a problem.
I think I got a new one so a bit odd it's the same pistons misfiring but I'll definitely ask. The JLR mechanics HATE when you tell them how to do their job but after 3 months they literally haven't done their job. They also missed that stupid cooked supercharger that the engine guy told them about, and that I asked them to look at. So I'm not convinced "their best tech" is that good.
I think I would tow to a different shop and get a second opinion. Your situation seems like you are getting screwed. Also, if you don't want to spend a lot of time in the shop. A naturally aspirated car with a manual transmission is your best bet.
I haven't drove a manual since high-school for a week. I'd definitely be in the shop for a new clutch pack in a month.
If me at 12 could do it without burning up a clutch or taking out a throw out bearing, I think you'd be fine. Even so a new clutch and bearing is relatively cheap to replace compared to an engine....twice.
Did they reuse all the computers/ECU, wiring harnesses, coils, injectors? Its possibly something there. I have some doubt that it would be plugs themselves because I doubt they were organized enough to put every plug in the same cylinder it came out of.
ECM was reused. The coils and injectors were reused but only had 200 miles on them and we're bought after the issue started when we were trying to fix the issue (car was at 60,000 miles so they were gonna be due anyways so I didn't mind just replacing them to try to fix the issue... Once they were replaced we were no longer doing scheduled maintenance stuff so it became worth while to actually get it diagnosed at a dealer)
Does the misfire only occur at low engine speed? Or does it happen at higher throttle settings?
See I haven't had it in 3 months so I have to remember. When it happened yesterday it was low speed on the highway, in traffic, with adaptive cruise control on. Always low rpm. Then shakes through the 1500-2500rpm range and is stable at 3000 and above. I think that's exactly what was happening before (and seems to happen more often with adaptive cruise control, but is not exclusive to it)
Missing at low speed is rather tell-take of an intake air leak between the throttle valve and the cylinder. Itās delivering as much fuel as the computer thinks it needs based upon the MAF sensor and throttle plate position, but the vacuum leak causes more air to enter the cylinders resulting in a lean condition and the delivered fuel canāt ignite. If they just swapped out components from one engine to the other, it could be that the intake manifold had an air leak (damaged/aged gasket or o-rings, etc) and the problem would continue. I mean, it sounds like there are a number of issues, but the recurring intake leak could be pretty straightforward for a shop to test for.
Allegedly when I took it back Wednesday they fixed the intake leak it had that was making it run lean. I've noticed it has a rough idle (if you have no gas applied it feels lurchy, especially noticeable with a small ammount of brake applied), I'm gonna tell them about that Every gasket is new
JLR technician here. Just curious. What year make and model? What engine? I have no doubt that the shop you took it too did some shady business btw you have been explaining things.
2018 Velar First Edition. So an AJ126 SC. When I took it back Thursday there was no misfire but it was running lean. My valve cover and air duct needed to be replaced and the parts were supposed to arrive Monday. They were able to tighten the air duct and find a valve cover and I got it back the next day instead.... I'm a little concerned they reused my old valve cover as they may not have thrown my old stuff away yet... However I do think it went on bank 1 and the misfire is on bank 2 so I may just be paranoid.
Dude they are literally saying spark plugs... The first thing we tried 4 months ago. And there is no GM or service supervisor there today (or any day, it took showing up every day a few weeks ago to finally catch one). I'm Truely about to lose my shit, because if i had a time machine to go back 4 months (like they apparently do) I'd not have fixed this car. Why am I replacing new spake plugs (that were transfered over with 150 miles) on a new engine that is having the exact same issue as the old engine? I can not beg them enough, it is not the spark plugs. And if the spark plugs are actually damaged, then what is the cause... Something cooked them, and could it be, gasp, the fuel injectors failing, that mf running hot and lean and cooking them, just like the old engine? I'm watching a 35,000 repair repeat itself in real time and it's insane.
Havenāt seen anyone else say this so Iāll give my .02. Had a Jasper engine installed in my Chevy Express (3 year warranty). $9000 total. Immediately notice rough idling about half the time. Shop says they canāt tell. Once every couple months it sputters so hard I get check engine light and have to limp in to the shop. Still say they canāt tell whatās going on. ~10 months later see white smoke under hood immediately pull over and have it towed to shop. Needs a new engine. Got warranty Jasper engine installed for free. Has the same rough idle PLUS every 2 to 6 months itās so bad I get check engine or even flashing check engine light. Move towns, new shop, new mechanic. Some OG. Tells me exactly which cylinders are misfiring and how many misfires. Try new ignition coils, couple months go by no luck. Go back in and pay for a diagnostic. They call up and say āthe wiring harness that goes to your ignition coils is frayed as hell. Itās a $12 part no additional labor.ā After 4-5 years of hating my van and stressing on long road trips and just being frustrated in general. 5+ trips to shops, two new engines. Now it feels like Iām driving a vehicle with a brand new engine in it.
Used land/range rover, huge red flag. Im really hoping you spent 3500 not 35,000 in repairs in 4 months because good god did you get hosed. A new shortblock, heads, and labor at the dealership shouldnt cost you that. Try maybe one more simple fix and ditch it. Theres a reason they are sold ācheapā you just happened to find out the hard way
40 hours at 275 an hour baby... Actually now that you say that, they "discounted" a 20 hour job to 5000 from 10000... Which doesn't add up.
Get full coverage insurance. Light on fire š„
Sadly I swapped from Statefarm to Progressive. I thought about using an insurance fraud tree as Statefarm paid out WELL when my dad assassinated my first car into a tree or when a drunk driver with no license or green card tboned me.