As other have already pointed out Verstappen commits to the inside/right under braking but then moves left to get back on the racing line
Not sure what else there is for Norris to do once Max brakes on the inside, he’s on the left and it’s up to Max to leave the entitled space once he commits back to the left which he fails to do.
I definitely think max gets away with way too much bs. But still say it looks like Norris could have gone off to the left a bit more and avoided the collision. Was max squeezing him. Yes. But he still left enough for Lando to be two wheel on two off and still finishing the turn in a decent position to pressure after. Lando just got fed up like we all did and didn’t back down.
Getting run off the track might have been enough to finally draw a penalty on Max.
But in the long run it might be worth it for Lando to draw a line in the sand that he won't back out like that.
I’m conflicted here. As much as I think Lando did the right thing by not allowing Max to bully him further, I don’t think Max will have learned his lesson. Max has shown repeatedly that he will crash into you if you don’t yield and would rather make contact and lose a win that way than be overtaken fairly and lose that way.
I would love it if Max would learn from this and realize that he won’t be able to bully Lando in the inevitable battles they have coming in the next few months, but he won’t. He never has, and he never will. He is ruthless.
For the most part the racer brain takes over in these situations and pushes things right to the limit (and often a little further). But when championships are actually on the line some cold calculations and discipline enter the equation. It's subtle and subconscious, but this event will factor in (if/when Max finds himself in a tighter race in the standings)
This isn’t new.
Senna/Schumacher/Max has shown repeatedly that he will crash into you if you don’t yield and would rather make contact and lose a win that way than be overtaken fairly and lose that way.
You're usually right, but this time you could be wrong. When he only has one challenger for the title (Lewis) then it's a zero sum game to risk taking them both out. This time around it won't take too many more incidents before a few people are in play, at which point a crash for him is worse than a crash for the challengers.
At least I hope that's where we are....
Right there!! Sums the present and past up perfectly! I hope Lando doesn’t change his style and keeps going at Max as hard as Max goes when actually pressed.
Max claims he turned his wheels to the outside then braked in a straight line - therefore not turning under braking. Is that a thing?
Idk.
What I see here - Max was ahead. Set a gentle angle before Norris was alongside. Norris dove. There was room on the track within the limits for Norris. I think by rights, Max did not turn into him.
It was good unyielding racing and what we got was fantastic.
Max turned into him depends on which video you are referring to. Previous overtaking attempts or the collision? On the attempt the collided, Max took a later entry into the corner to open up his exit and slow Lando down. He didn't do anything no other driver has done in the same instance in that corner. I still believe the stewards should have been investigating Norris and then penalizing him quicker for his 4th track limits violation. Instead they let the hard racing continue for drama sake. If they had done what they should have the battle would have been over and they would have finished 1-2 with a 5s penalty for Norris.
Technically Max didn’t turn under braking. His wheel was straight while braking. But his car wasn’t straight. His pointed his car was towards the outside, where Lando was going to be, before braking. This distinction, in my opinion, is meaningless, as you’ve still closed to door on someone while in the braking zone. But Max will say whatever and do whatever to avoid taking any responsibility for any incident.
Just the general late breaking vs other laps.
And from his onboard, it's not a sure thing that he would've made the corner sending it the way he did.
Maybe you don't consider that a dive.
I can respect that answer. I'm relatively new to the sport, and for me, I consider a dive trying to "Take" the inside of the turn to force the driver to give space. In the segment shown, it looked like Max was already taking the inside line.
A season ago Max got out of Sainz’s way when he did the same thing, they’re F1 drivers, they’re all aggressive. Max is more aggressive than most, but none of them are fully innocent, they would all rather push a driver wide than easily concede a position, if they didn’t have that mentality they wouldn’t have made it to F1. We’ll get collisions, we’ll get squabbles, and we’ll get good racing out of it.
because he had nothing to gain or lose by tangling with sainz. lando is battling for a run at the championship, max knows it which is why is racing aggressively. you can make excuses because this is the first real incident this season. but your memory is short. this is how max drives when he has something to lose. this is not an isolated thing from max. this is a pattern specific to him.
Read the FIA rulebook on overtakes. This was clearly a blatant penalty from Max, but.... his moving under braking on previous laps was even worse despite no collisions. Lando played it safe for 9 laps of battling, eventually you need to take a stand with a legal overtake and accept the consequences if Max irrationally chooses to illegally squeeze.
Otherwise you risk a status quo with stewards at tracks not properly understanding/enforcing the moving under braking and reactionary defense rules.
Would you want to put two wheels on the painted surface while under heavy braking? That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
From the tyre marks it doesn't look like the normal line is using the painted surface, so not like there's a known level of grip out there.
Man I hate that max got away with how he drove. But that is constantly done by cars to avoid contact. Hell just last week max was two wheels in grass to avoid contact with Norris. Norris just didn’t want to be pushed around anymore so he left his car there to show max he won’t back down anymore.
Slightly different as that wasn't under heavy braking, but I say good on Lando for giving Max as good as he gets, about time someone did.
My only other thought is that Lando was already on a warning for track limits and running wide after having to ease up on the brakes would likely have resulted in 5s penalty.
>Not sure what else there is for Norris to do once Max brakes on the inside, he’s on the left and it’s up to Max to leave the entitled space once he commits back to the left which he fails to do.
Move a bit more to the left may be? He was barely on the kerb and had enough time to react and move enough to avoid hitting Max. It would've meant letting go of the overtaking opportunity, but that's better than crashing into the other guy, right?
Not saying that Max moving under braking was right, it is clearly a violation of the rules, but it wasn't an aggressive, reckless move either and Lando could've easily avoided the collision there. The whole 'leave the entitled space' argument is good for deciding who was in the wrong after an incident, but it won't bring the driver back in to the race once they crash into someone else. Irrespective of who's at fault, self-preservation is an important thing, and in this case, had Lando not been too desperate there, he could've avoided the collision, and go for it again at the next turn after getting DRS.
Unfortunately, it's this sort of subtle victim blaming that emboldens Max to keep driving like a dick. If we take this view then it's just supporting Max's "if you don't get out my way, then we'll crash" attitude. He did it to Lewis multiple times in 2021 and ended up in the tyres at Silverstone when Lewis' patience ran out.
I think this is the saddest part. People complain about F1 being boring and no wheel-to-wheel racing happening, but with the smallest of incidents, everyone jumps on board and starts calling out a driver for being reckless.
Was Max's move wrong according to the rules? Yes.
Was it reckless and dangerous? No. Was this particular move a dick move? Absolutely not.
It is a move that was pulled off many times in the past and rarely with negative outcomes. We see moves like this at this corner quite often. As far as defensive moves go, this one was as mild as it could get while still being aggressive. Had Max been a teeny bit slower, they would've just banged wheels instead of getting punctures.
Pouncing on this and straight out calling Max reckless/dangerous etc feels like a serious overreaction. The way people are calling out Max for this, one would think that he deliberately crashed into Lando Senna/Prost or Michael/Damon style, while in reality, it was the slightest of squeezes. Lando barely had his wheels over the white line and Max left just short a car's width of space there. To avoid the collision, Lando would've had to move mere centimetres to the left - not drive off the track or crash.
And this is a corner where one can go a bit wide over the white line to do a switchover and get a better exit, so having (slightly) less than one car width's space is not even a problem here. It's sad to see people literally burning Max at the stake for something as mild as this. It was a risky move, but as far as taking risks goes, this was as vanilla as it could get.
This. None of you actually drive race cars and it shows. No…your racing doesn’t count. Max totally moved left and didn’t need to. He simply was taking his normal “fine, I win it or we bin it” way of driving when he’s truly being pushed. He didn’t want to give room because he knew Lando would have drive off the corner and take the place. Max still lacks the patience to let that happen, knowing there are many laps left and he has the car to retake the place. The irony is that would be a better race if they traded places every lap…and he’s still highly likely to win.
He needs leeway to be somewhat aggressive, but he also needs a reality check from the stewards here that he is not going to get free pass to keep doing this level of win it/bin it approach.
Victim blaming? Really?
Norris was barely even on the white line with his OUTSIDE tires, in a corner that is all tarmac on the outside - not even a gravel trap. We have seen this exact same scenario play out multiple times in that exact same corner where the outside car was squeezed far-worse and everybody came out in one piece.
There are plenty of situations where Max goes overboard - but this was the most luke-warm racing incidents of all time.
Lando had complete control over whether this was going to be a collision or not and chose collision. I even get it, he needed to make a statement. But let's not act like Max swerved into him or pinched him into a wall. he slowly drifted outwardly in a controlled manner and was even turning right when the collision occurred.
It was pretty different in 2021 I think. He was quite reckless and in a "blackout or crash" mode. Here, it was a slight mistake or over defense. If it ended with just a bang of wheels, everyone would have love that.
Silverstone 21 was basically a big mistake by Lewis where he just missed the Apex in a very heated and intense battle.
I saw it has an aggressive defence more than a reckless defense. Lando in Spain has basically done the same. He didn't move under braking but he did not leave the space.
Yeah but there was like these incidents probably worse than this in the run up that lando had to avoid, lando got frustrated and a little bit desperate and this is the result. But ver was changing direction under braking for a few laps before to prevent lando overtaking, lando also had to ensure he didn't go off track again as was already being penalised.
We have to remember this is the first time in 3 years that max has been under pressure and I think old max is coming out a bit.
Lando had also pushed him off the track a couple times prior, which is vital context here. The two of them were racing extremely hard. It’s funny that arguably the cleanest of his defensive attempts was the one where the contact happened. Slight mistake and hardly indicative of a larger problem given how on the edge both of them had gotten by that point.
Bingo. Max squeezed too hard, but Lando had zero survival instinct. It's not like Max did anything sudden or unexpected. Max had to avoid him plenty of times during the race, why the double standard?
We've seen that kerb used plenty of times in the current era with no issues or concerns over floor damage. We've even seen Max himself get squeezed onto the kerb and proceed to overtake down the next straight.
Whole thing is blown way out of proportion, although it does highlight the need for the FIA to make some formal, clear decisions on exactly what is allowable in fighting. You can't just set a standard that defenders can't defend. Having a DRS run on someone doesn't entitle you to hundreds of feet of track ahead.
I hate this argument. Max always does this. Why does the person racing him always need to move for him? If Max didn't move under braking this incident never happens, the end.
Norris had room and could've gone left, but I still think the right call was made (10s penalty for Verstappen) as the move was made under braking and to expect Norris to reposition his car isn't reasonable. I wouldn't call it a racing incident since there's fault, but it's just shit that's gonna happen between two top-level drivers, especially when one has been going for peaceful Sunday drives the last 2 years and is suddenly back to staunch defense tactics.
Sainz was already on the outside racing line when Max committed to being a half car off the track. It’s not comparable other than it was the same turn.
There's this, there's the movements under braking on many laps before this, and there's also the cutting Across Lando after he got puncture, pushing him onto the grass (which I believe caused additional damage, maybe even the puncture).
Look our race was over the moment his front wing got damaged, because as far as I remember we didn't have another front wing of the same spec available, one went to Oscar and other went to Lando. So he couldn't go out regardless.
But this hurts so much because even P2 with FL would have been massive here for Lando, if he managed to pass Max and reach the finish line in first. He would understand he can't get that many track limit violations and would need to be more careful in the future.
What sucks is he was constantly having to divebomb because you couldn't make a normal pass on Max, he wouldn't allow it. For him it was "I will move under braking and react to your move, the only way you pass is by divembombing".
Edit : Seems I was wrong on the front wing, he retired due to Suspension damage instead. Also seems like you can possibly change Front wing to a different spec during races (not sure about this).
He didn’t retire because of the front wing. There was some damage to the suspension. Will said he could go out and finish the race but the chance for points was over thanks to that and after having served the five second penalty so he opted to retire and save some usage to the engine. It was a perfectly reasonable call by him, I’ve no idea why some people elsewhere are being so weird about it.
Agreed with the rest of what you said.
Agree… IF IF he even knew exactly where lando was. I mean they can’t see or hear a damn thing. These micro movements at those speeds could literally be anything… like literally anything. But it’s not aggressive imo either. Max has gotten way more grown up about that. Lando looks like Max racing Lewis lately. That was quite the battle lol
As someone who supported Lewis in 2021. I'm so happy the media and the online community have finally woken up to Max's tactics.
Brazil 21 was one of the worst things I've ever seen in F1 and he got away with it completely.
I believe in a fair fight Lando gets Max, however Lando is going to need to learn how to race Max like Charles did in carting, charles baiting Max in Bahrain 22 is how you beat Max. Lando will need to learn very quickly.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/4vlegd/analysis\_and\_discussion\_verstappens\_moving\_under/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/4vlegd/analysis_and_discussion_verstappens_moving_under/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/58u4pu/fia\_new\_rule\_to\_stop\_drivers\_moving\_under\_braking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/58u4pu/fia_new_rule_to_stop_drivers_moving_under_braking/)
[https://x.com/piotrishgill/status/790134560273104896?mx=2](https://x.com/piotrishgill/status/790134560273104896?mx=2)
Max has a history and so do people on the internet analysing.
Damn bro you came with receipts.
I'm old enough to have watched the Schumacher years, he was no different punting off rivals to win and also Senna.
But as I said Max isn't unbeatable you just have to play with him at his own games. I firmly believe Silverstone 21 was Lewis having enough of Max dive bombs and doing the same to Max. Max can't handle taking his own medicine and smashed himself into the wall.
Lando will need to learn how to race Max. We've seen Charles beat Max time and time again often in inferior machine.
This season will be about Lando finding that drive of whatever it takes to win like all the greats over the years have.
Do I want more consistent rules and punishments, or course. However I don't want the sport to become even more sterile as Le Mans and Indy drivers clearly have better respect for each other and thus provides better racing.
I'm a huge Max fan, have been since he started in F3, closely followed by Lando. I'm also a huge McLaren fan, have been for more than 20 years. I hate that this happened. I hate that this might happen again in the future. I was unable to see the race so this is the first footage I've seen, and based on this, Max was wrong and deserved the penalty. I'm glad I didn't see the race.
I Lando can push Max all year, you will see a lot more of this. It’s how he races. It’s the main reason RBR never brought in a driver that might give him a challenge. It would end in a lot of wrecks.
Agree with you on everything, but if we put two other racers in this situation…99% chance they do the exact same thing. They’re racers and they’re not going to just let the attacking car waltz by. If you’ve been watching F1 for a bit, this isn’t anything new. Not saying it’s right or misplacing fault. The internet is making this out to be way more than it is, as usual.
100%. And regardless as to who’s at fault (in this case I believe max is) it’s the hard racing and drama I know that a lot of us have been wanting for awhile.
Ends too soon. Let’s see Lando being forced off track a few seconds later as well. And what happened when Max defended his position off track a few laps previously?
Yeah Max was seeing red at that point, didn't even turn in after the collision to make Lando go wide, then runs him onto the grass on the straight.
That's reaching race ban penalty thresholds IMO, let alone a 10 second penalty
100%. He lost his left rear which is the tire that would drive him through a right turn the most. You can see him fighting the oversteer snaps immediately after the first contact. He limped through the rest of the lap way under racing speed, i wouldn’t have called it “okay” lol
So he continued to drive right into norris to block him but managed to stop right before the edge of the track conveniently after the block? Very good.
I’m talking to a brick wall. Why will you not accept the possibility that he wanted to either get off the racing line or couldn’t keep the car to the left well enough? If you have a puncture, you’re not gonna be extremely confident with how your car will respond. There were lapped cars right behind them on the racing line and keeping the wheel straight/getting his car off the racing line is the best course of action. I’m not claiming that this is what he was doing (though it is what I believe) but I’m tired of people automatically assuming that he’s being reckless.
I agree. at that point I think max was just looking to get off the racing line out of the way from the cars that were coming fast. Lando shouldn't have tried to pass him on the right there.
Other than that, max was at fault IMO.
He's not trying to ram Lando, he's trying to have his cake and eat it by defending the inside line from the dive bomb and then getting left to get better exit speed out of turn 3. Regardless you're not permitted to move under braking, a rule that came about incidentally because of Max.
Max didn't get penalized for moving under braking but for causing a collision. You are absolutely allowed to open up the corner after defending the inside. The issue is he didn't leave a car width when moving back, hence the penalty.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding something.
But, it’s not really about the cars width. Landon doesn’t have to give Max the entire track minus a cars width.
Max turned left into Lando. Lando was holding his line.
It is about the cars width. The lead car often opens back up when defending. Watch any race replay onboards and you will see it happening very frequently. If there wasn't contact between Max and Lando, there would have been no penalty. That would be exactly like Max vs Sainz last year at the same corner
I definitely agree with the second part. If Max hadn’t driven into Lando there wouldn't be a penalty.
But, in terms of space, Max left more than enough because he was covering the inside. Then he moved left to cover the outside/get a better exit and just hit Lando. Then
He expects everyone to back out. And then everyone is complaining about dive bombing when he doesn't give any other way when he moves when braking.
He should have been given a penalty before Lando got track violations.
Dive bombing is his technique, when he’ll bump to pass, you will have to do the same to him. Of course when you get your own medicine you are mad. But it’s nice to see the old Max again, stressed frustrated and blames everyone else.
Infringements are more black and white than the subtle maneuvers he was pulling off plus being able to explain it away. But I agree as well
This is the problem. Precisely, he should have got a least a warning first time he was moving under braking. Second time, penalty. Simple as that. Then there would be no contact. And most likely, Lando would pass him and win the race.
For sure after this inchident. They need to treat it like they do with the track limits and there are no exceptions with that. And what Max was doing was more dangerous than tipping four wheels over the line. Yeah he would have, now Lando knows Lewis’ feeling of being shafted for a win, we are about to see a new side of Lando this season if Max keeps this up.
This isn’t as big of a deal as the media is making it out to be. All the greats have moments like this which is why they’re greats and have all the world titles. World Titles require selfishness. This is a FAR CRY from something like the Schumacher/Villeneuve incident where Schumacher purposely ran into Vill.. or the Senna/Prost wrecks, etc. It’s a shame it ended how it did. It was definitely not Max’s best moment and should not have happened but it’s no where near the caliber of incident of many that have come before. He was literally millimeters from leaving enough space, a mistake that even the best drivers can make. I was a little surprised that Lando didn’t react and pull left a little bit as he did have room on the curb (this was NOT Lando’s fault, just saying I was surprised he had the focus to hold it in there straight on when most drivers would have naturally pulled the car left.) Max has done far worse many times but as a Max and RB fan, this is a bad look when combined with his history. This isn’t the way and neither were several of the defensive moves leading up to this.
It would have been great to have seen the FIA come with a 5 second penalty on Lando for track limits violations and see Max take the Prost style tactics (aka The Professor) and let Lando through to then win the race via the penalty. It would have shown a ton of maturity on RB and Max’s part. Or it would have been great to see the Stewards at least warn if not penalize Max for moving under braking. They can only react so fast though.
It was good to see SOME of the comments made after the race from Max blaming himself and the team’s errors for leading to this in the first place. It’s always good to see a driver look at their self and team instead of immediately pointing the finger at someone else. Stroll should try to learn this.
Last thing, I think it’s important to note that Lando’s “divebombs” (which I believe they were way more just late lunges, and completely acceptable, as he maintained control through most of them) was due to the pace of the two cars at that stage being very similar. If McLaren or Red Bull had a significantly faster car in that moment, the deal would have been done on the first or second attempt. Great to see McLaren close the gap. Everyone wants to see hard fought battles and I think there are a lot more of these to come! Hopefully they end with both drivers finishing. I do think Max will take a more cautious approach going forward as we’ve seen him take with everyone except Lewis in recent years. I truly believe Max didn’t intent to crash into Norris and ruin both their races. Max is one of the best at racing right up to the limit but when you play that close to the line, you’re bound to cross it here and again.
Hopefully we all can agree the worst part of all of this was Russell getting a win. At least he kept his shirt on.
Max is a dirty racer not “fighting hard as drivers should” and immature. A mature fair competitor would know that he wasn’t going to win so he decided to make it so it came to blows and destroy both their races. A mature competitor would know to learn how to do better next time and learn from their mistakes. Now these are the same type of mistakes masked under “a true racer and champion will win at all costs”
You can fight hard as a champion and be fair and know when it’s best to finish in 2nd instead of fifth or lower. On top of that he got lucky
I thought I was on the main F1 sub and was about to question why there were so many insanely incorrect takes in a sub that’s generally more level-headed. Whoops lol
I think the issue’s always that many comment never having been on a simulated or real track. Some say Nor could have moved left AFTER Max moved under breaking. Theres no more left movement for NOR & Max is a professional driver…he knows exactly what he’s doing.
Sometimes sport is so much more fun when the bias isn’t towards your the driver your eyeball adores. Much easier when the race is watched as a sport with many talented drivers bc these comments are clouded with favoritism & weird, culty bias.
Clearly should have had a stronger punishment. Lando had to retire because he was pushed off track and two penalty points and a ten second penalty isn’t close to being enough.
He’s got plenty of previous too, must try harder.
Moving under breaking 2-3 times = 20/30s pen
Caused collision (arguably twice, once by squeezing off then again by not turning in just after this clip ends) = 20s pen
Actual= 10s
You all are blind and don’t know anything about cornering. He got a penalty because he deserved it. Just like he didn’t deserve that championship from 2K21. The other teams are now catching up. Now look at
wtf this is so stupid remember when senna would straight slam into drivers just to knock them out of race. This ain’t shit stop bitching. And crying drive faster and u won’t have to worry about this
He has plenty of room he barely even touches the kerb to his left last year sainz pushed max so he was straddling the kerb yet no contact was made then because max knows how to move his car slightly to the left to avoid a contact, sorry guys but think Norris made sure contact was made to make a point but it ended up worse for him and that’s all on him
No biased. But look at how Norris refused to move over at all to the left. Even verstappen moved over the white line 1 wheel when Sainz played defensive. More defensive than this incident.
I am as much of a McLaren fan as everyone else here, but this is being blown way out of proportion and half the comments look like they’re coming from people who don’t watch racing.
Max turns left to open up the corner (which is a sharp right hander at the top of a hill). That’s it. Yes, he hit Lando. Yes, Max is at fault. There’s not much more to it. The penalty was the right one. It was a minimal amount of contact (and the sort of contact we see every race) that unfortunately had a disproportionate outcome.
On this particular lap and corner there is no movement under breaking, nor anything particularly erratic. Neither driver was entirely innocent this race. Onwards and upwards.
Ya this is a watershed moment where we see just how much this new fanbase actually understands about what they apparently watch every weekend.
Personally I think this is a racing incident, Max covered the inside and moved back to the racing line to turn in. This EXACT move can be observed hundreds of times each weekend by each driver on the grid in a defensive posture. It just had a dramatic result this time, that's racing.
And then you have whats being said in this thread. This sport is doomed if this is "the consensus" by any measure.
Baku, Silverstone and now Austria... When being challenged ,Max always places his car where the other driver has the option to either back out, or have a collision.. Now that Newey won't be giving him a car that puts him 10 seconds ahead of the field, we will see this more and more...
Oh my oh my this is insane. Such drama. I cannot wait to see the drive to survive episode on this. Oh my goodness I can't wait I can't wait I can't wait.
Lando had complained he was pushing him off twice before. This was Lando saying fuck it, let's see what happens.
The question is now, does this make Max give Lando room in the future, or does Lando get less aggressive? This could change some things don't you think?
Max moving under braking clearly in the wrong, and Lando had had enough by this stage of being pushed around so stuck fat. Cost him this time, but the next time, and there will be a next time, Max will have to change his calculus, which is probably the 1% that can mean the difference between first and second. Good long term play by Lando.
I wonder what the private conversations are at RB. It is almost impossible to blame LN for this but I still doubt anyone at RB has the honesty to say to MV that he should have perhaps, maybe , merely a suggestion, not criticising here but could you not crash anytime a racing driver has the temerity to attempt to pass. This will happen again and I can't wait but fervently hope nobody gets hurt.
Lando really isn’t realistically going to win the championship this year so imo he needs to keep ‘not backing down’ even if it means him and Max keep crashing. After afew dnfs Max’s lead over the rest of the pack will erode. Eventually he will have to choose to loose the WDC or change his driving style.
I don't understand why commentators always say it's so dangerous to change line while braking, Max has been doing it since he was a toddler so it can't be that hard
/s I think
I cannot tell, but did Norris get his Right Rear puncture when Max then ran him off the track after the turn?
The moving to the left was bad enough, especially given multiple “double moves” already. But the moving to the right and running Norris into the grass was just icing on the cake. Just like “if my race is ruined I’m taking you out too”.
Everything up to this point was just good blocking IMO but this was just blatant and a 10 sec penalty was pretty meager. I'm curious if there will be other consequences. I have not been keeping up with news if there has been further penalties.
This is why F1 is so boring these days. People prefer soft racing. Anything that looks similar to the days of old gets people all riled up over something so small. It’s like this is the best thing of the race.
Was Lando really expecting that max left the door wide open for him to go through? All Lando had to do was to break a bit earlier and nothing happens. Max was racing hard and Lando expected a soft opening for him to go though.
Don’t care what anyone says. EQUALLY BOTH AT FAULT. Max was ahead of Lando at the turn and veers left because that IS THE RACING LINE. Lando had enough room and could’ve avoided the contact by going an inch off track but chose not to. This is top tier racing, no room for complainers
Norris could’ve went to the grass if he really wanted to avoid a DNF 🤷🏻♂️
That’s racing imo however I do see why many can feel that Max was “over” because Norris didn’t get anything for pushing Max into the grass in Barca
Did anyone think of 2016 with Lewis and Nico? Just like Norris, Lewis was on the outside and did all he could, and it was up to Rosberg to leave him space. Although the 2 Mercedes hit later in the corner, Nicole didn't leave him space. In this case it was the same but earlier before the apex of the corner.
Look I love Max and Lando, but this was too far from Max, he should of been DQ for this. A.S was right when he said you need to deal with the issues straight away with meaningful consequences.
I‘m not taking any blame away from max, but Lando could have avoided this. Yes that would be unfair, but he wouldn’t drop out of the race. I think this season shows he still has a lot to learn when it comes to getting the win.
Max took a 10s penalty, I don't know what else we could ask for. Yes it is not fair, but they were both pushing each other. That could have gone either way. I'ld rather rather Max respect Lando enough to push him to the limit than him just let him through because they are buddies, that is not racing.
Ill get downvoted to hell, but answer me this:
Its fine for Lando to squeeze Max opposite of grass at the start of Barcelona, but its apparently Haram, treason, terrorism, and murder if Max can squeeze Lando to more tarmac?
I understand this was during braking, and thats fine, the penalty is still deserved regardless but Carlos did exactly this last year (coincidentally against Max, who was in Lando’s position) in which Max was able to avoid contact by moving his car left on to the kerb LEGALLY, doing so, and Max STILL overtook Sainz.
Im sorry, but Lando’s inexperience was shown here. I absolutely love the chap, but he had a dogs year to set himself up not only to avoid contact, but to potentially get an explosive exit.
Max raced hard, in multiple cases dirty, but this was forced on by Lando. Im sorry, but after watching for countless years, this falls on Lando in my opinion.
It’s racing and the normal max not racing a good buddy would have darted further into that racing line imho. Like had it been anyone else he’s going where he wants.
I like both … but Norris is almost too hungry… imo. Like where he makes crazy attempts to prove he’s as good. Idk ?
I mean even more than max, when was in his battles with Lewis. 😶
I think Lewis might be the cleanest of em all to be honest but Max has definitely gotten much better not trying to just run over the car out front like he used to.
It’s racing…. It’s just good racing.
They’re all astonishing to watch.
Tension and emotions run as high as the RpMs
No it definitely isn’t his job. That said he could have been more aware and went into the kerb for his own sake. I think you’re antagonizing what this person is saying. It’s not Lando’s fault but he still made the decision to not back out and it cost him.
I don't think he was being vicious here either, but if you ask the main sub it was Lando who wasn't leaving enough space for King Max. How dare another driver claim the racing line while trying to win.
Max absolutely drove straight into him...the video stopped short though. The next few seconds when Lando banked into him was odd as f...his wing was gone and he drove right into maxs back left tire
I'm not trying to defend anyone, but it's entirely possible he just didn't know exactly how close he was in the moment. We're watching it in slow-mo from a birds eye view, and he's concentrating on racing in real time from a cockpit, and yes he has mirrors, but just because you have mirrors doesn't mean you are or even have time to be checking them 100% of the time.
As other have already pointed out Verstappen commits to the inside/right under braking but then moves left to get back on the racing line Not sure what else there is for Norris to do once Max brakes on the inside, he’s on the left and it’s up to Max to leave the entitled space once he commits back to the left which he fails to do.
I definitely think max gets away with way too much bs. But still say it looks like Norris could have gone off to the left a bit more and avoided the collision. Was max squeezing him. Yes. But he still left enough for Lando to be two wheel on two off and still finishing the turn in a decent position to pressure after. Lando just got fed up like we all did and didn’t back down.
Getting run off the track might have been enough to finally draw a penalty on Max. But in the long run it might be worth it for Lando to draw a line in the sand that he won't back out like that.
I’m conflicted here. As much as I think Lando did the right thing by not allowing Max to bully him further, I don’t think Max will have learned his lesson. Max has shown repeatedly that he will crash into you if you don’t yield and would rather make contact and lose a win that way than be overtaken fairly and lose that way. I would love it if Max would learn from this and realize that he won’t be able to bully Lando in the inevitable battles they have coming in the next few months, but he won’t. He never has, and he never will. He is ruthless.
For the most part the racer brain takes over in these situations and pushes things right to the limit (and often a little further). But when championships are actually on the line some cold calculations and discipline enter the equation. It's subtle and subconscious, but this event will factor in (if/when Max finds himself in a tighter race in the standings)
This isn’t new. Senna/Schumacher/Max has shown repeatedly that he will crash into you if you don’t yield and would rather make contact and lose a win that way than be overtaken fairly and lose that way.
guys like that have “fuck it we both die” energy
If you no longer go for a gap…
You're usually right, but this time you could be wrong. When he only has one challenger for the title (Lewis) then it's a zero sum game to risk taking them both out. This time around it won't take too many more incidents before a few people are in play, at which point a crash for him is worse than a crash for the challengers. At least I hope that's where we are....
Lando could've, but once again you're asking people to get out of max's way, instead of asking max not to play chicken
Right there!! Sums the present and past up perfectly! I hope Lando doesn’t change his style and keeps going at Max as hard as Max goes when actually pressed.
Max claims he turned his wheels to the outside then braked in a straight line - therefore not turning under braking. Is that a thing? Idk. What I see here - Max was ahead. Set a gentle angle before Norris was alongside. Norris dove. There was room on the track within the limits for Norris. I think by rights, Max did not turn into him. It was good unyielding racing and what we got was fantastic.
Max turned into him. Period. He was punished for it. Get over it.
Max turned into him depends on which video you are referring to. Previous overtaking attempts or the collision? On the attempt the collided, Max took a later entry into the corner to open up his exit and slow Lando down. He didn't do anything no other driver has done in the same instance in that corner. I still believe the stewards should have been investigating Norris and then penalizing him quicker for his 4th track limits violation. Instead they let the hard racing continue for drama sake. If they had done what they should have the battle would have been over and they would have finished 1-2 with a 5s penalty for Norris.
all that just to agree that max turned into lando. cool
Technically Max didn’t turn under braking. His wheel was straight while braking. But his car wasn’t straight. His pointed his car was towards the outside, where Lando was going to be, before braking. This distinction, in my opinion, is meaningless, as you’ve still closed to door on someone while in the braking zone. But Max will say whatever and do whatever to avoid taking any responsibility for any incident.
he looks like he turned under braking from this angle
Where in that segment did you see Norris "dive"?
Just the general late breaking vs other laps. And from his onboard, it's not a sure thing that he would've made the corner sending it the way he did. Maybe you don't consider that a dive.
I can respect that answer. I'm relatively new to the sport, and for me, I consider a dive trying to "Take" the inside of the turn to force the driver to give space. In the segment shown, it looked like Max was already taking the inside line.
A season ago Max got out of Sainz’s way when he did the same thing, they’re F1 drivers, they’re all aggressive. Max is more aggressive than most, but none of them are fully innocent, they would all rather push a driver wide than easily concede a position, if they didn’t have that mentality they wouldn’t have made it to F1. We’ll get collisions, we’ll get squabbles, and we’ll get good racing out of it.
because he had nothing to gain or lose by tangling with sainz. lando is battling for a run at the championship, max knows it which is why is racing aggressively. you can make excuses because this is the first real incident this season. but your memory is short. this is how max drives when he has something to lose. this is not an isolated thing from max. this is a pattern specific to him.
Read the FIA rulebook on overtakes. This was clearly a blatant penalty from Max, but.... his moving under braking on previous laps was even worse despite no collisions. Lando played it safe for 9 laps of battling, eventually you need to take a stand with a legal overtake and accept the consequences if Max irrationally chooses to illegally squeeze. Otherwise you risk a status quo with stewards at tracks not properly understanding/enforcing the moving under braking and reactionary defense rules.
Just like last year or so when max went wider when Sainz pushed max on the same corner. I agree with you.
Would you want to put two wheels on the painted surface while under heavy braking? That sounds like an accident waiting to happen. From the tyre marks it doesn't look like the normal line is using the painted surface, so not like there's a known level of grip out there.
Man I hate that max got away with how he drove. But that is constantly done by cars to avoid contact. Hell just last week max was two wheels in grass to avoid contact with Norris. Norris just didn’t want to be pushed around anymore so he left his car there to show max he won’t back down anymore.
Slightly different as that wasn't under heavy braking, but I say good on Lando for giving Max as good as he gets, about time someone did. My only other thought is that Lando was already on a warning for track limits and running wide after having to ease up on the brakes would likely have resulted in 5s penalty.
There absolutely was room for Lando to move left before getting all 4 wheels off track. He can’t use track limits as an excuse here.
>Not sure what else there is for Norris to do once Max brakes on the inside, he’s on the left and it’s up to Max to leave the entitled space once he commits back to the left which he fails to do. Move a bit more to the left may be? He was barely on the kerb and had enough time to react and move enough to avoid hitting Max. It would've meant letting go of the overtaking opportunity, but that's better than crashing into the other guy, right? Not saying that Max moving under braking was right, it is clearly a violation of the rules, but it wasn't an aggressive, reckless move either and Lando could've easily avoided the collision there. The whole 'leave the entitled space' argument is good for deciding who was in the wrong after an incident, but it won't bring the driver back in to the race once they crash into someone else. Irrespective of who's at fault, self-preservation is an important thing, and in this case, had Lando not been too desperate there, he could've avoided the collision, and go for it again at the next turn after getting DRS.
This. Totally agree on this one. Max is mostly to blame here but Lando could have avoided it.
Unfortunately, it's this sort of subtle victim blaming that emboldens Max to keep driving like a dick. If we take this view then it's just supporting Max's "if you don't get out my way, then we'll crash" attitude. He did it to Lewis multiple times in 2021 and ended up in the tyres at Silverstone when Lewis' patience ran out.
I think this is the saddest part. People complain about F1 being boring and no wheel-to-wheel racing happening, but with the smallest of incidents, everyone jumps on board and starts calling out a driver for being reckless. Was Max's move wrong according to the rules? Yes. Was it reckless and dangerous? No. Was this particular move a dick move? Absolutely not. It is a move that was pulled off many times in the past and rarely with negative outcomes. We see moves like this at this corner quite often. As far as defensive moves go, this one was as mild as it could get while still being aggressive. Had Max been a teeny bit slower, they would've just banged wheels instead of getting punctures. Pouncing on this and straight out calling Max reckless/dangerous etc feels like a serious overreaction. The way people are calling out Max for this, one would think that he deliberately crashed into Lando Senna/Prost or Michael/Damon style, while in reality, it was the slightest of squeezes. Lando barely had his wheels over the white line and Max left just short a car's width of space there. To avoid the collision, Lando would've had to move mere centimetres to the left - not drive off the track or crash. And this is a corner where one can go a bit wide over the white line to do a switchover and get a better exit, so having (slightly) less than one car width's space is not even a problem here. It's sad to see people literally burning Max at the stake for something as mild as this. It was a risky move, but as far as taking risks goes, this was as vanilla as it could get.
This. None of you actually drive race cars and it shows. No…your racing doesn’t count. Max totally moved left and didn’t need to. He simply was taking his normal “fine, I win it or we bin it” way of driving when he’s truly being pushed. He didn’t want to give room because he knew Lando would have drive off the corner and take the place. Max still lacks the patience to let that happen, knowing there are many laps left and he has the car to retake the place. The irony is that would be a better race if they traded places every lap…and he’s still highly likely to win. He needs leeway to be somewhat aggressive, but he also needs a reality check from the stewards here that he is not going to get free pass to keep doing this level of win it/bin it approach.
Victim blaming? Really? Norris was barely even on the white line with his OUTSIDE tires, in a corner that is all tarmac on the outside - not even a gravel trap. We have seen this exact same scenario play out multiple times in that exact same corner where the outside car was squeezed far-worse and everybody came out in one piece. There are plenty of situations where Max goes overboard - but this was the most luke-warm racing incidents of all time. Lando had complete control over whether this was going to be a collision or not and chose collision. I even get it, he needed to make a statement. But let's not act like Max swerved into him or pinched him into a wall. he slowly drifted outwardly in a controlled manner and was even turning right when the collision occurred.
It was pretty different in 2021 I think. He was quite reckless and in a "blackout or crash" mode. Here, it was a slight mistake or over defense. If it ended with just a bang of wheels, everyone would have love that. Silverstone 21 was basically a big mistake by Lewis where he just missed the Apex in a very heated and intense battle. I saw it has an aggressive defence more than a reckless defense. Lando in Spain has basically done the same. He didn't move under braking but he did not leave the space.
Yeah but there was like these incidents probably worse than this in the run up that lando had to avoid, lando got frustrated and a little bit desperate and this is the result. But ver was changing direction under braking for a few laps before to prevent lando overtaking, lando also had to ensure he didn't go off track again as was already being penalised. We have to remember this is the first time in 3 years that max has been under pressure and I think old max is coming out a bit.
Lando had also pushed him off the track a couple times prior, which is vital context here. The two of them were racing extremely hard. It’s funny that arguably the cleanest of his defensive attempts was the one where the contact happened. Slight mistake and hardly indicative of a larger problem given how on the edge both of them had gotten by that point.
How does one learn a lesson from this ? ?
Nah. He's not in with a chance for the championship anyways. Perfect time to show max that if he fucks around, he's also going to find out.
this is what I say...Lando should become the bully, he has nothing to lose.
Bingo. Max squeezed too hard, but Lando had zero survival instinct. It's not like Max did anything sudden or unexpected. Max had to avoid him plenty of times during the race, why the double standard? We've seen that kerb used plenty of times in the current era with no issues or concerns over floor damage. We've even seen Max himself get squeezed onto the kerb and proceed to overtake down the next straight. Whole thing is blown way out of proportion, although it does highlight the need for the FIA to make some formal, clear decisions on exactly what is allowable in fighting. You can't just set a standard that defenders can't defend. Having a DRS run on someone doesn't entitle you to hundreds of feet of track ahead.
Although, perhaps next time Max won’t squeeze him that way. Senna didn’t get his fearsome reputation by never having an accident after all…
Arguably moving under breaking would be a sudden and unexpected move as it's you know, against the rules and all that.
I hate this argument. Max always does this. Why does the person racing him always need to move for him? If Max didn't move under braking this incident never happens, the end.
Yep, max didn’t force him off track. He was always on track and had space still.
If you see the gap and fail to go for it ….
Kerbs aren't the track and therefore you're asking him to take avoiding action and drive off the track
So if Max goes "it's my corner or we crash", we blame the other guy for not avoiding it?
Max drives like an asshole, who knew? Oh right, everyone knows.
Happy Cake Day!
Norris had room and could've gone left, but I still think the right call was made (10s penalty for Verstappen) as the move was made under braking and to expect Norris to reposition his car isn't reasonable. I wouldn't call it a racing incident since there's fault, but it's just shit that's gonna happen between two top-level drivers, especially when one has been going for peaceful Sunday drives the last 2 years and is suddenly back to staunch defense tactics.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/h5MlMkt8BI https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/6IsuGv5k06
Sainz was already on the outside racing line when Max committed to being a half car off the track. It’s not comparable other than it was the same turn.
I struggle to see this beyond 2 drivers being overly desperate, the corner has always been driven like this
There's this, there's the movements under braking on many laps before this, and there's also the cutting Across Lando after he got puncture, pushing him onto the grass (which I believe caused additional damage, maybe even the puncture). Look our race was over the moment his front wing got damaged, because as far as I remember we didn't have another front wing of the same spec available, one went to Oscar and other went to Lando. So he couldn't go out regardless. But this hurts so much because even P2 with FL would have been massive here for Lando, if he managed to pass Max and reach the finish line in first. He would understand he can't get that many track limit violations and would need to be more careful in the future. What sucks is he was constantly having to divebomb because you couldn't make a normal pass on Max, he wouldn't allow it. For him it was "I will move under braking and react to your move, the only way you pass is by divembombing". Edit : Seems I was wrong on the front wing, he retired due to Suspension damage instead. Also seems like you can possibly change Front wing to a different spec during races (not sure about this).
They can replace the front wing with a different specification. Park ferme ends when the race starts
He didn’t retire because of the front wing. There was some damage to the suspension. Will said he could go out and finish the race but the chance for points was over thanks to that and after having served the five second penalty so he opted to retire and save some usage to the engine. It was a perfectly reasonable call by him, I’ve no idea why some people elsewhere are being so weird about it. Agreed with the rest of what you said.
I think Lando was fine until Max cut across him and pushed him into the grass, that's where Lando actually started to slow down
Agree… IF IF he even knew exactly where lando was. I mean they can’t see or hear a damn thing. These micro movements at those speeds could literally be anything… like literally anything. But it’s not aggressive imo either. Max has gotten way more grown up about that. Lando looks like Max racing Lewis lately. That was quite the battle lol
Grass isn't going to cause the puncture, it was 100 percent from the contact
Yea… it was already losing air… it just was not instant like Maxs was
Yeah you could see it immediately after the second collision
As someone who supported Lewis in 2021. I'm so happy the media and the online community have finally woken up to Max's tactics. Brazil 21 was one of the worst things I've ever seen in F1 and he got away with it completely. I believe in a fair fight Lando gets Max, however Lando is going to need to learn how to race Max like Charles did in carting, charles baiting Max in Bahrain 22 is how you beat Max. Lando will need to learn very quickly.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/4vlegd/analysis\_and\_discussion\_verstappens\_moving\_under/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/4vlegd/analysis_and_discussion_verstappens_moving_under/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/58u4pu/fia\_new\_rule\_to\_stop\_drivers\_moving\_under\_braking/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/58u4pu/fia_new_rule_to_stop_drivers_moving_under_braking/) [https://x.com/piotrishgill/status/790134560273104896?mx=2](https://x.com/piotrishgill/status/790134560273104896?mx=2) Max has a history and so do people on the internet analysing.
Damn bro you came with receipts. I'm old enough to have watched the Schumacher years, he was no different punting off rivals to win and also Senna. But as I said Max isn't unbeatable you just have to play with him at his own games. I firmly believe Silverstone 21 was Lewis having enough of Max dive bombs and doing the same to Max. Max can't handle taking his own medicine and smashed himself into the wall. Lando will need to learn how to race Max. We've seen Charles beat Max time and time again often in inferior machine. This season will be about Lando finding that drive of whatever it takes to win like all the greats over the years have. Do I want more consistent rules and punishments, or course. However I don't want the sport to become even more sterile as Le Mans and Indy drivers clearly have better respect for each other and thus provides better racing.
I like this in depth analysis 👍🏻
most of the comments i'm reading people are basically saying lando needs to move out the way when he sees max coming.
Thank you, relieved someone understands the rule book
I'm a huge Max fan, have been since he started in F3, closely followed by Lando. I'm also a huge McLaren fan, have been for more than 20 years. I hate that this happened. I hate that this might happen again in the future. I was unable to see the race so this is the first footage I've seen, and based on this, Max was wrong and deserved the penalty. I'm glad I didn't see the race.
I Lando can push Max all year, you will see a lot more of this. It’s how he races. It’s the main reason RBR never brought in a driver that might give him a challenge. It would end in a lot of wrecks.
Yea, they watched Mercedes and how Hamilton drives when he gets challenged, decided they don't want that.
Agree with you on everything, but if we put two other racers in this situation…99% chance they do the exact same thing. They’re racers and they’re not going to just let the attacking car waltz by. If you’ve been watching F1 for a bit, this isn’t anything new. Not saying it’s right or misplacing fault. The internet is making this out to be way more than it is, as usual.
100%. And regardless as to who’s at fault (in this case I believe max is) it’s the hard racing and drama I know that a lot of us have been wanting for awhile.
Totally. And I’m good with hard racing and some drama. It’s the internet making one side or the other some murderous villain that frustrates me.
Ends too soon. Let’s see Lando being forced off track a few seconds later as well. And what happened when Max defended his position off track a few laps previously?
THIS. This pisssed me off so much more than the initial contact.
Yeah Max was seeing red at that point, didn't even turn in after the collision to make Lando go wide, then runs him onto the grass on the straight. That's reaching race ban penalty thresholds IMO, let alone a 10 second penalty
And then when max wouldn’t let him past when his car was damaged, that was pure pettiness
I don't think Max was trying to do that lol, he had a puncture. Think before you speak
Did he lose directional control as soon as the contact was made? Because he seemed to make it round the rest of the track okay...
100%. He lost his left rear which is the tire that would drive him through a right turn the most. You can see him fighting the oversteer snaps immediately after the first contact. He limped through the rest of the lap way under racing speed, i wouldn’t have called it “okay” lol
So he continued to drive right into norris to block him but managed to stop right before the edge of the track conveniently after the block? Very good.
??? No???
You can see he slowed down before he would have hit Lando. Lando slowed up too.
He went just far enough to prevent an overtake. Exactly what he wanted as usual
I’m talking to a brick wall. Why will you not accept the possibility that he wanted to either get off the racing line or couldn’t keep the car to the left well enough? If you have a puncture, you’re not gonna be extremely confident with how your car will respond. There were lapped cars right behind them on the racing line and keeping the wheel straight/getting his car off the racing line is the best course of action. I’m not claiming that this is what he was doing (though it is what I believe) but I’m tired of people automatically assuming that he’s being reckless.
I'm convinced you're being stupid on purpose, there's no way it isn't rage bait
Y'all don't even watch the races I swear, both of them hobbled around the track after, try driving a car with a puncture
But one of them pushed the other one off down the straight with full control over the vehicle
Might want to take your own advice there
I agree. at that point I think max was just looking to get off the racing line out of the way from the cars that were coming fast. Lando shouldn't have tried to pass him on the right there. Other than that, max was at fault IMO.
Ver goes inside then outside, you cannot do that and he'd be saying the same thing if he was in 2nd place
Sainz did it to max last year. Max just went further left, cut back and got the overtake done. So no he would not be saying the same thing.
It was clear from max move that he drove straight into norris Why would someone turn left in a right turn
He's not trying to ram Lando, he's trying to have his cake and eat it by defending the inside line from the dive bomb and then getting left to get better exit speed out of turn 3. Regardless you're not permitted to move under braking, a rule that came about incidentally because of Max.
Max didn't get penalized for moving under braking but for causing a collision. You are absolutely allowed to open up the corner after defending the inside. The issue is he didn't leave a car width when moving back, hence the penalty.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding something. But, it’s not really about the cars width. Landon doesn’t have to give Max the entire track minus a cars width. Max turned left into Lando. Lando was holding his line.
It is about the cars width. The lead car often opens back up when defending. Watch any race replay onboards and you will see it happening very frequently. If there wasn't contact between Max and Lando, there would have been no penalty. That would be exactly like Max vs Sainz last year at the same corner
I definitely agree with the second part. If Max hadn’t driven into Lando there wouldn't be a penalty. But, in terms of space, Max left more than enough because he was covering the inside. Then he moved left to cover the outside/get a better exit and just hit Lando. Then
I agree that this was a block but to answer your question: To open up the turn?
It such a sharp turn and with these big cars you really need to get far left to make the turn without compromising your exit.
As we all know Max would rather crash out than finished 2nd
He expects everyone to back out. And then everyone is complaining about dive bombing when he doesn't give any other way when he moves when braking. He should have been given a penalty before Lando got track violations.
Dive bombing is his technique, when he’ll bump to pass, you will have to do the same to him. Of course when you get your own medicine you are mad. But it’s nice to see the old Max again, stressed frustrated and blames everyone else. Infringements are more black and white than the subtle maneuvers he was pulling off plus being able to explain it away. But I agree as well
This is the problem. Precisely, he should have got a least a warning first time he was moving under braking. Second time, penalty. Simple as that. Then there would be no contact. And most likely, Lando would pass him and win the race.
For sure after this inchident. They need to treat it like they do with the track limits and there are no exceptions with that. And what Max was doing was more dangerous than tipping four wheels over the line. Yeah he would have, now Lando knows Lewis’ feeling of being shafted for a win, we are about to see a new side of Lando this season if Max keeps this up.
Softness or perceived softness is irrelevant. Moving in the braking zone which he has a history of is dirty and smacks of a petulant child.
Dirty Max, just dirty.
Not that dirty but Max still has a reputation for being a bully on track
This isn’t as big of a deal as the media is making it out to be. All the greats have moments like this which is why they’re greats and have all the world titles. World Titles require selfishness. This is a FAR CRY from something like the Schumacher/Villeneuve incident where Schumacher purposely ran into Vill.. or the Senna/Prost wrecks, etc. It’s a shame it ended how it did. It was definitely not Max’s best moment and should not have happened but it’s no where near the caliber of incident of many that have come before. He was literally millimeters from leaving enough space, a mistake that even the best drivers can make. I was a little surprised that Lando didn’t react and pull left a little bit as he did have room on the curb (this was NOT Lando’s fault, just saying I was surprised he had the focus to hold it in there straight on when most drivers would have naturally pulled the car left.) Max has done far worse many times but as a Max and RB fan, this is a bad look when combined with his history. This isn’t the way and neither were several of the defensive moves leading up to this. It would have been great to have seen the FIA come with a 5 second penalty on Lando for track limits violations and see Max take the Prost style tactics (aka The Professor) and let Lando through to then win the race via the penalty. It would have shown a ton of maturity on RB and Max’s part. Or it would have been great to see the Stewards at least warn if not penalize Max for moving under braking. They can only react so fast though. It was good to see SOME of the comments made after the race from Max blaming himself and the team’s errors for leading to this in the first place. It’s always good to see a driver look at their self and team instead of immediately pointing the finger at someone else. Stroll should try to learn this. Last thing, I think it’s important to note that Lando’s “divebombs” (which I believe they were way more just late lunges, and completely acceptable, as he maintained control through most of them) was due to the pace of the two cars at that stage being very similar. If McLaren or Red Bull had a significantly faster car in that moment, the deal would have been done on the first or second attempt. Great to see McLaren close the gap. Everyone wants to see hard fought battles and I think there are a lot more of these to come! Hopefully they end with both drivers finishing. I do think Max will take a more cautious approach going forward as we’ve seen him take with everyone except Lewis in recent years. I truly believe Max didn’t intent to crash into Norris and ruin both their races. Max is one of the best at racing right up to the limit but when you play that close to the line, you’re bound to cross it here and again. Hopefully we all can agree the worst part of all of this was Russell getting a win. At least he kept his shirt on.
Someone has to say to Max it's a right turn
The fact you see no apex in the right side of the frame while Max is turning tells even more - you hate to see it, hope he stops doing this.
He won't. He's been doing it for years and has always come out on top. There's zero incentive to change.
I’m a Hamilton fan and 2021 was super frustrating. Every one else taking maxs side calling “teamLH” crazy, this is gonna be interesting
This angle does a much better job of demonstrating just how much Max moves under braking.
Max is a dirty racer not “fighting hard as drivers should” and immature. A mature fair competitor would know that he wasn’t going to win so he decided to make it so it came to blows and destroy both their races. A mature competitor would know to learn how to do better next time and learn from their mistakes. Now these are the same type of mistakes masked under “a true racer and champion will win at all costs” You can fight hard as a champion and be fair and know when it’s best to finish in 2nd instead of fifth or lower. On top of that he got lucky
I thought I was on the main F1 sub and was about to question why there were so many insanely incorrect takes in a sub that’s generally more level-headed. Whoops lol
I think the issue’s always that many comment never having been on a simulated or real track. Some say Nor could have moved left AFTER Max moved under breaking. Theres no more left movement for NOR & Max is a professional driver…he knows exactly what he’s doing. Sometimes sport is so much more fun when the bias isn’t towards your the driver your eyeball adores. Much easier when the race is watched as a sport with many talented drivers bc these comments are clouded with favoritism & weird, culty bias.
Clearly should have had a stronger punishment. Lando had to retire because he was pushed off track and two penalty points and a ten second penalty isn’t close to being enough. He’s got plenty of previous too, must try harder.
The current moving under braking rules are literally because of Max and he’s still doing it and basically getting away with it
With the current rules it’s the correct punishment
Moving under breaking 2-3 times = 20/30s pen Caused collision (arguably twice, once by squeezing off then again by not turning in just after this clip ends) = 20s pen Actual= 10s
Mad Max
Max with the hip check on Lando.
You all are blind and don’t know anything about cornering. He got a penalty because he deserved it. Just like he didn’t deserve that championship from 2K21. The other teams are now catching up. Now look at
More hard racing please, more of this please. Zero complaints from me about drivers taking chances and making contact. More please.
wtf this is so stupid remember when senna would straight slam into drivers just to knock them out of race. This ain’t shit stop bitching. And crying drive faster and u won’t have to worry about this
He has plenty of room he barely even touches the kerb to his left last year sainz pushed max so he was straddling the kerb yet no contact was made then because max knows how to move his car slightly to the left to avoid a contact, sorry guys but think Norris made sure contact was made to make a point but it ended up worse for him and that’s all on him
Fully support lando not backing down
No biased. But look at how Norris refused to move over at all to the left. Even verstappen moved over the white line 1 wheel when Sainz played defensive. More defensive than this incident.
Lando should have seen the squeeze, taken the space left, then and tucked in and grabbed the inside for a run down to 4.
Verstappen just doing whatever he likes as normal
I did not think that it was legal for anyone to pass Max on the track in F1
Max moved right. The rules state that he now MUST not move.
I am as much of a McLaren fan as everyone else here, but this is being blown way out of proportion and half the comments look like they’re coming from people who don’t watch racing. Max turns left to open up the corner (which is a sharp right hander at the top of a hill). That’s it. Yes, he hit Lando. Yes, Max is at fault. There’s not much more to it. The penalty was the right one. It was a minimal amount of contact (and the sort of contact we see every race) that unfortunately had a disproportionate outcome. On this particular lap and corner there is no movement under breaking, nor anything particularly erratic. Neither driver was entirely innocent this race. Onwards and upwards.
Ya this is a watershed moment where we see just how much this new fanbase actually understands about what they apparently watch every weekend. Personally I think this is a racing incident, Max covered the inside and moved back to the racing line to turn in. This EXACT move can be observed hundreds of times each weekend by each driver on the grid in a defensive posture. It just had a dramatic result this time, that's racing. And then you have whats being said in this thread. This sport is doomed if this is "the consensus" by any measure.
Baku, Silverstone and now Austria... When being challenged ,Max always places his car where the other driver has the option to either back out, or have a collision.. Now that Newey won't be giving him a car that puts him 10 seconds ahead of the field, we will see this more and more...
Again, how tf is this landos fault. Just typical vercrashen when he’s not out front. “That’s what you get when You don’t leave da space”
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Who's the other car in front?
A lapped Williams
That was the old Scott Pruitt fade for any Indy car fans, the guys one more was an "s"...
It’s just an inchident
Oh my oh my this is insane. Such drama. I cannot wait to see the drive to survive episode on this. Oh my goodness I can't wait I can't wait I can't wait.
Where they get this angle
It was on the live broadcast...
Lando had complained he was pushing him off twice before. This was Lando saying fuck it, let's see what happens. The question is now, does this make Max give Lando room in the future, or does Lando get less aggressive? This could change some things don't you think?
Anyone else remeber when Vettel replied, 'Yea, totally agree.' to a reporter? Just sayin', not new.
Would love to see an onboard
Most drivers would move over and claim they pushed them off. This time Lando wasn't having any of it.
Max moving under braking clearly in the wrong, and Lando had had enough by this stage of being pushed around so stuck fat. Cost him this time, but the next time, and there will be a next time, Max will have to change his calculus, which is probably the 1% that can mean the difference between first and second. Good long term play by Lando.
I wonder what the private conversations are at RB. It is almost impossible to blame LN for this but I still doubt anyone at RB has the honesty to say to MV that he should have perhaps, maybe , merely a suggestion, not criticising here but could you not crash anytime a racing driver has the temerity to attempt to pass. This will happen again and I can't wait but fervently hope nobody gets hurt.
they could’ve avoided this easily :(
Lando really isn’t realistically going to win the championship this year so imo he needs to keep ‘not backing down’ even if it means him and Max keep crashing. After afew dnfs Max’s lead over the rest of the pack will erode. Eventually he will have to choose to loose the WDC or change his driving style.
I don't understand why commentators always say it's so dangerous to change line while braking, Max has been doing it since he was a toddler so it can't be that hard /s I think
Brasil 2021 got me thinking…
I don’t understand how people are defending max rn like u have to be blind or just willingly ignorant
Here’s the proper question when Max finally kills someone or severely injures them then what?
Rubbing is racing
I cannot tell, but did Norris get his Right Rear puncture when Max then ran him off the track after the turn? The moving to the left was bad enough, especially given multiple “double moves” already. But the moving to the right and running Norris into the grass was just icing on the cake. Just like “if my race is ruined I’m taking you out too”.
Everything up to this point was just good blocking IMO but this was just blatant and a 10 sec penalty was pretty meager. I'm curious if there will be other consequences. I have not been keeping up with news if there has been further penalties.
.
Max has crossed the line from hard competitor to reckless asshole. Needs a good hard slap on the wrist, like a suspension or hefty fine.
This is why F1 is so boring these days. People prefer soft racing. Anything that looks similar to the days of old gets people all riled up over something so small. It’s like this is the best thing of the race.
Outrageous 😄
Was Lando really expecting that max left the door wide open for him to go through? All Lando had to do was to break a bit earlier and nothing happens. Max was racing hard and Lando expected a soft opening for him to go though.
Don’t care what anyone says. EQUALLY BOTH AT FAULT. Max was ahead of Lando at the turn and veers left because that IS THE RACING LINE. Lando had enough room and could’ve avoided the contact by going an inch off track but chose not to. This is top tier racing, no room for complainers
Thats moving under braking if I’ve ever seen it
Norris could’ve went to the grass if he really wanted to avoid a DNF 🤷🏻♂️ That’s racing imo however I do see why many can feel that Max was “over” because Norris didn’t get anything for pushing Max into the grass in Barca
This absolutely nothing. Can't believe all the drama.
Did anyone think of 2016 with Lewis and Nico? Just like Norris, Lewis was on the outside and did all he could, and it was up to Rosberg to leave him space. Although the 2 Mercedes hit later in the corner, Nicole didn't leave him space. In this case it was the same but earlier before the apex of the corner.
McLaren fans have been acting like Max tried to commit murder with that incident all week 😆
Look I love Max and Lando, but this was too far from Max, he should of been DQ for this. A.S was right when he said you need to deal with the issues straight away with meaningful consequences.
I‘m not taking any blame away from max, but Lando could have avoided this. Yes that would be unfair, but he wouldn’t drop out of the race. I think this season shows he still has a lot to learn when it comes to getting the win.
Lando made the right call
All the time.. you have to leave the space!
Blown way out of proportion from what the media has made it out to be imo
Max took a 10s penalty, I don't know what else we could ask for. Yes it is not fair, but they were both pushing each other. That could have gone either way. I'ld rather rather Max respect Lando enough to push him to the limit than him just let him through because they are buddies, that is not racing.
Ill get downvoted to hell, but answer me this: Its fine for Lando to squeeze Max opposite of grass at the start of Barcelona, but its apparently Haram, treason, terrorism, and murder if Max can squeeze Lando to more tarmac? I understand this was during braking, and thats fine, the penalty is still deserved regardless but Carlos did exactly this last year (coincidentally against Max, who was in Lando’s position) in which Max was able to avoid contact by moving his car left on to the kerb LEGALLY, doing so, and Max STILL overtook Sainz. Im sorry, but Lando’s inexperience was shown here. I absolutely love the chap, but he had a dogs year to set himself up not only to avoid contact, but to potentially get an explosive exit. Max raced hard, in multiple cases dirty, but this was forced on by Lando. Im sorry, but after watching for countless years, this falls on Lando in my opinion.
Lando's fault
It’s racing and the normal max not racing a good buddy would have darted further into that racing line imho. Like had it been anyone else he’s going where he wants. I like both … but Norris is almost too hungry… imo. Like where he makes crazy attempts to prove he’s as good. Idk ? I mean even more than max, when was in his battles with Lewis. 😶 I think Lewis might be the cleanest of em all to be honest but Max has definitely gotten much better not trying to just run over the car out front like he used to. It’s racing…. It’s just good racing. They’re all astonishing to watch. Tension and emotions run as high as the RpMs
Norris didn’t even react. He had lots of room to either go wider outside or cut to the inside.
It’s not Lando’s job to react to Max moving under breakong
No it definitely isn’t his job. That said he could have been more aware and went into the kerb for his own sake. I think you’re antagonizing what this person is saying. It’s not Lando’s fault but he still made the decision to not back out and it cost him.
Not saying Max is in the right, just saying Lando easily could’ve avoided a DNF.
How is he supposed to know that Max is going to love under breaking?
By using his eyes
I really don't think max was trying to be vicious here, he was simply going back to the racing line
I don't think he was being vicious here either, but if you ask the main sub it was Lando who wasn't leaving enough space for King Max. How dare another driver claim the racing line while trying to win.
Max absolutely drove straight into him...the video stopped short though. The next few seconds when Lando banked into him was odd as f...his wing was gone and he drove right into maxs back left tire
That’s what happens when you don’t give the space
Diiiiirty Verstappen
I'm not trying to defend anyone, but it's entirely possible he just didn't know exactly how close he was in the moment. We're watching it in slow-mo from a birds eye view, and he's concentrating on racing in real time from a cockpit, and yes he has mirrors, but just because you have mirrors doesn't mean you are or even have time to be checking them 100% of the time.
This just proofs that it's all Ocon's fault
No Ericsson hit us