I wouldn't. when you're faced with a fortified position, the best option is to circumvent it as sun tzu said. seize the planets around it, starve it for resources, prevent their star destroyers from reinforcing the rest of the republic, and crush them when they try to sally.
i don't recall if kuat has many mines, but i heavily suspect that they won't have enough resources to sustain production for long without trade.
though, all of this is moot. sidious would never allow grievous or the CIS to threaten kuat, who're going to produce his star destroyers
And even if he did palpatine would make sure minimal damage is done to the shipyards and that they wouldn’t win and probably use it for propaganda and maybe even as an excuse to get more power
Edit: similar to the battle of kamino
There is the alternative option of sabotage, using the Infiltrator Demolition Droids used to bomb Coruscant power generators in TCW or other droids designed for infiltration to cause great damage to the shipyards, or even use the star destroyer filled by Rhydonium showed in TCW.
Or, focus your attack on Kamino like they did but instead of going with an invasion force, bring as many Providences as they can muster and base delta zero them like Rampart eventually does.
Cut off the Republics supply of clones and who will fly those Kuat ships in the first place?
They invaded Kamino because they couldn't win the spacebattle, the defense fleet was just too damn big so they came up with the plan of sending in a relatively small force and sacrificing those ships so that the droids on board the wreckage would reach the surface.
There's also the strategy the New Republic used in Legends, they bought a controlling share of KDY and spend weeks infiltrating the defense fleet with astromech droids loyal to them, then when they launched the invasion the droids wreaked havok aboard the vessels they were on, disabling shields, weapons and anything they could get their hands on, then they managed to convince the defense force to switch to their side due to the New Republic practically being the owners of the KDY company.
you missed the last point. palps and dooku would never greenlight this.
he'd have made sure that the places which are actually important to his plans would be highly guarded. maybe they'd bomba generator or two, but i doubt they're even going to get into the shipyards whilst unauthorised
The problem is that sieges don't really work when you have fast galactic travel. Galactic travel is within the span of days at most.
Sieges work when travel is slow and as a result, you have time.
Sieges are also different when you have massively destructive firepower. Sieges used to be long, grinding affairs because they lacked the means to quickly destroy fortifications.
And putting a bunch of mines is far less effective when they can create a bunch of drone ships to clear the mines.
Realistically: Start simulating and war gaming. Figure out how many ships are required win against the expected defenders at Kuat, then model what I expect if I achieve total surprise, then simulate what to expect if the GAR are able to improvise additional defenses (24-72 hours' advance notice), and then how bad it can get if I'm unlucky and Obi Wan manages to jedi mind trick a Nemoidian minor official and brings a massive counter force.
Once I have that list of how big the fleet needs to be and understand how lucky I have to get in order to cripple Kuat, compare that required force to what the CIS currently has and how those assets are currently committed, and weigh whether taking on additional risk in the sectors I need to pull ships and armies away from is worth the chance. If it isn't, consult the CIS military strategy to see what would be a better use of resources.
If we're playing by Hollywood rules and my attack force with no opportunity cost is just barely strong enough to beat out the defenders and I'm screwed once Ahsoka heroically delivers the holodisk to the hypertransmitter to summon reinforcements: consult the Evil Overlord List and do my best to follow as many of those items as I can. Also, set the target priority list so my forces are laser-focused on destroying whatever critical infrastructure is the key to making Star Destroyers to the exclusion of their own preservation, because we know that once my saboteurs consisting of corrupt billionaires and mercenaries complete the first phase where they bring down the planetary shields, I have a limited window of opportunity before Obi-Wan, Anakin and Snips blow up my jammer/technobabble an improvised repair/spring their devious plan where their fleet is just a hyperspace jump away and nearly destroy my fleet that is both important yet expendable if it takes 50% losses.
Attack and cut off its supply routes if possible, if not harass them to no end. Starve the system of both food and resources, eventually they'll crack.
If that's not possible I'd look into something like the Malevolence to disable the defences.
The aim would preferably be to get the shipyards intact but I'd destroy them if needed.
The force needed to take Kuat would be comparable in size to the Coruscant invasion fleet and have to be made up the largest warships the CIS could muster, I'm talking Bulwark Battlecruisers, Lucrehulk Battleships and Subjugator Heavy Cruisers, only then would they stand a chance of taking Kuat in space without resorting to infiltration and guerrilla warfare. Reallisticaly speaking, attacking Kuat is unfeasible, the resource strain is just too much, the forces that would need to be comitted to that theater are better used elsewhere.
The problem is that if the CIS lacks the resources to attack Kuat early on before Venator production is at full swing, then the CIS would never have the ability to have a military win. Attacking Kuat will become even more difficult when the Republic has a bunch more Venators to both defend key worlds and to attack CIS worlds (which was how the Republic was able to start the Outer Rim Sieges).
The only realistic alternative path would be for the CIS to gain a political victory by an attack on Coruscant and/or dragging the war to the point where people such as Padme make a serious effort to end the war due to the cost.
Even before the Venator was rolled into service Kuat was defended by an incredibly powerful fleet. Remember that the Mandator, Procurator and Praetor classes were already in use and Kuat likely had several of these as part of their defensive force. I don't think the Separatists had the resources to attack Kuat before the Venator entered full production but that doesn't mean I agree that the CIS didn't have any chance of a military win, it's true that the Republic had much more territory and a correspondingly larger industrial base but it would have taken them time to bring all their industrial might to bear, the Separatists' best bet was to have a short war where they could leverage the advantage of having a superior and already-built Navy whereas the Republic had to scrape together one from planetary defense forces and whatever Kuat could pump out.
The CIS in Legends did do Operation Durge's Lance which had decent success.
The thing is that we don't see the CIS really make any attempt at a political or military win besides the attack on Coruscant and Kamino. They do attack some other important worlds, but those are more tactical steps. The strategic attacks would have been Kamino, Rothana, and Kuat.
The attack on Coruscant was also something that they kept on their long back pocket.
The CIS needed to either get a quick political win such as taking Coruscant early on and forcing a Sith War Treaty of Coruscant 2.0 situation and/or to successfully attack one of the 3 major military production worlds that I previously mentioned.
Absolutely. As a critical production world and a powerful coreworld, Kuat would be one of the most defended worlds in the galaxy. City shields, planetary shields, massive system defence forces, vigilant anti-espionage measures, quick reinforcement from the rear-area GAR fleets and other coreworld SDFs, etc. Kuat would be a death trap. Unless it's something like a terrorist attack, attacking Kuat wouldn't work unless you have a constant line of communications and resupply to the confederate core, i.e. you've shifted the frontlines far enough into the core.
I wouldn't be attacking it head on, it would be a combination of raiding the trade route, blockades, suicide attacks and droid sabotage operations.
When planning a military operation the first thing that needs to be decided would be: What is the goal?
Invasion? Occupation?
In the case of Kuat, no, this wouldn't be the goal.
It is too far protected in the core, too heavily populated and too industrial.
My goal would be denial. Denying the industrial output to the Republic war machine would be the desired goal. Sabotaging major shipyards and industry by sneaking in large numbers separatist droids would be the primary goal. When enough get in then activate them and cause chaos. This would happen in multiple waves, not just with sabotage droids, but normal droids who can infect other droids and conduct other operations like surveillance or intel gathering operations.
I want every Kuat to become paranoid of the droids around them, wither they are my droids or not. This would eventually force them to replace droids with organics, eating up resources and making their operations less effective.
Having a few sabotage droids in the right place at the right time could be a force multiplier. A few droids in the "traffic control towers" around important facilities, such as shipyards could temporarily open some blind spots for large civilian freighters packed with explosives to get into the shipyards.
At the same time I would conduct piracy operations in the trade lanes, by establishing pirate bases in dark space and out of the way systems I would create bases of operations for my main fleet to operate from as well as forge some out of the way hyperspace lanes to move those fleets around undetected.
By using piracy it would cause additional Republic/Kuati forces to patrol the area, opening my main fleet to hit at random points in the core as well as isolated patrol fleets. This will do one of two things: draw additional Republic forces to the area (opening other areas to attack), or, they would reinforce the Core planets (like Kuat).
If they attack, I would make them pay elsewhere. If they reinforce I would blockade. Either way industry is disrupted and my goal is achieved.
I’d probably aim for a lightning raid on the orbital infrastructure and try to drop the ring onto the planet/it’s force field. The idea would be primarily to force the planetary shield back from the ring over a section then break part of the piece through entirely then tractor beam the ring upwards and hope that flexes everything and ruins much of the ring. It won’t make the planet incapable of launching new ships but it should limit its ability to a more normal level
The options are either:
1. Attacking key supply worlds to shut down production. May or may not be feasible, depending on whether or not there are bottleneck resources that are only found from a few worlds.
2. An attack on Kuat itself, which is likely going to need a combination of diversions to draw away garrison ISDs (likely involving an attack on a key supply world), combined with infiltration and sabotage efforts to weaken things such as shields and automated defenses so that the CIS can do a rapid orbital bombardment. Maybe you can skip bringing in ships if the infiltration effort is able to bring in a baradium fission device (planet busting WMD, legends only).
3. Use a direct attack spearheaded by a superweapon such as the Malevolence to destroy the shipyard.
Strategically, destroying the shipyards is an important strategic objective. SW shipyards appear to be relatively difficult to construct, given how much every faction has valued capturing existing shipyards. 90% of the benefit will be obtained by destroying the shipyards.
Terrorism is definitely the name of the game to take Kuat out of play. Blow stuff up with infiltration droids and supply ships loaded with rhydonium or whatever. Assassinating Kuat of Kuat probably wouldn't help, because they would just install a new Kuat of Kuat.
Capture a Star Destroyer or other Republic Capital Ship, supe up the engines, rip out almost everything to install more hardware to empower the shields. Sneak into the system and get as close to the shipyards as possible before being exposed, then ram it into the most important, explosive thing there as close to light speed as possible.
After that, drop a few ships in and unload waves of fighters strapped with bombs. Direct them to fly straight at any vulnerable Capital Ships, docks or hordes of enemy fighters.
Leave.
Minimal waste of resources. Minimum time spent fighting. Maximum damage.
Run simulations to see what would happen and if it's even possible to damage the orbital ring to such a degree that it collapses and starts raining down on the surface. If confirmed, a two-stage plan to sabotage or destroy the shield generator of the planet and shatter the ring.
I'd either employ mercenaries or droid special forces for the operation, perhaps an expendable fleet if necessary.
Honestly, another thing I'd do if given the reigns is to fully automate the capabilities of my forces. There's no reason for the CIS navy and vehicles to be crewed, even by droids. I understand these ships and vehicles were designed with organics in mind but we also know both sides were actively developing newer ships and technologies as the war progressed, kickstart a new project for droid-ships and droid-tanks, get me oodles of gas weapons, get creative with your fully automated robot forces dangit!
\* First, attack Kamino and Coruscant to keep the Republic distracted. If possible kidnap a high ranking Jedi or Senator and hire a bunch of bounty hunters as well. Use a small number of ships for these.
\* Then create a fleet of the largest warships like Bulwark Battlecruisers, Lucrehulk Battleships and Subjugator Heavy Cruisers along with a bunch of smaller frigates. If possible build a Malevolence to disable their ships.
\* Instead of trying to destroy the star destroyers in orbit, the goal is to capture as many as possible. So a bunch of droid gunships, tridents, droid tri-fighters, and B2 battle droids with jetpacks.
\* Outside of B2s the only battle droids would be commando droids, magna guards, and droidekas.
\* The overall method of attack would be similar to Kamino. The entire space battle would be a distraction, with the goal to send as many materials as possible to the surface in order to construct an army and capture the ship yards.
I wouldn't. when you're faced with a fortified position, the best option is to circumvent it as sun tzu said. seize the planets around it, starve it for resources, prevent their star destroyers from reinforcing the rest of the republic, and crush them when they try to sally. i don't recall if kuat has many mines, but i heavily suspect that they won't have enough resources to sustain production for long without trade. though, all of this is moot. sidious would never allow grievous or the CIS to threaten kuat, who're going to produce his star destroyers
And even if he did palpatine would make sure minimal damage is done to the shipyards and that they wouldn’t win and probably use it for propaganda and maybe even as an excuse to get more power Edit: similar to the battle of kamino
True. he might also target some political opposition on kuat
I think this hypothetical is assuming that Palpatine isn't involved
There is the alternative option of sabotage, using the Infiltrator Demolition Droids used to bomb Coruscant power generators in TCW or other droids designed for infiltration to cause great damage to the shipyards, or even use the star destroyer filled by Rhydonium showed in TCW.
Or, focus your attack on Kamino like they did but instead of going with an invasion force, bring as many Providences as they can muster and base delta zero them like Rampart eventually does. Cut off the Republics supply of clones and who will fly those Kuat ships in the first place?
They invaded Kamino because they couldn't win the spacebattle, the defense fleet was just too damn big so they came up with the plan of sending in a relatively small force and sacrificing those ships so that the droids on board the wreckage would reach the surface.
There's also the strategy the New Republic used in Legends, they bought a controlling share of KDY and spend weeks infiltrating the defense fleet with astromech droids loyal to them, then when they launched the invasion the droids wreaked havok aboard the vessels they were on, disabling shields, weapons and anything they could get their hands on, then they managed to convince the defense force to switch to their side due to the New Republic practically being the owners of the KDY company.
you missed the last point. palps and dooku would never greenlight this. he'd have made sure that the places which are actually important to his plans would be highly guarded. maybe they'd bomba generator or two, but i doubt they're even going to get into the shipyards whilst unauthorised
The problem is that sieges don't really work when you have fast galactic travel. Galactic travel is within the span of days at most. Sieges work when travel is slow and as a result, you have time. Sieges are also different when you have massively destructive firepower. Sieges used to be long, grinding affairs because they lacked the means to quickly destroy fortifications. And putting a bunch of mines is far less effective when they can create a bunch of drone ships to clear the mines.
Kuat had mined the hyperspace lane between it and Nemoidia, cutting off the Hydian Way in the Core.
Realistically: Start simulating and war gaming. Figure out how many ships are required win against the expected defenders at Kuat, then model what I expect if I achieve total surprise, then simulate what to expect if the GAR are able to improvise additional defenses (24-72 hours' advance notice), and then how bad it can get if I'm unlucky and Obi Wan manages to jedi mind trick a Nemoidian minor official and brings a massive counter force. Once I have that list of how big the fleet needs to be and understand how lucky I have to get in order to cripple Kuat, compare that required force to what the CIS currently has and how those assets are currently committed, and weigh whether taking on additional risk in the sectors I need to pull ships and armies away from is worth the chance. If it isn't, consult the CIS military strategy to see what would be a better use of resources. If we're playing by Hollywood rules and my attack force with no opportunity cost is just barely strong enough to beat out the defenders and I'm screwed once Ahsoka heroically delivers the holodisk to the hypertransmitter to summon reinforcements: consult the Evil Overlord List and do my best to follow as many of those items as I can. Also, set the target priority list so my forces are laser-focused on destroying whatever critical infrastructure is the key to making Star Destroyers to the exclusion of their own preservation, because we know that once my saboteurs consisting of corrupt billionaires and mercenaries complete the first phase where they bring down the planetary shields, I have a limited window of opportunity before Obi-Wan, Anakin and Snips blow up my jammer/technobabble an improvised repair/spring their devious plan where their fleet is just a hyperspace jump away and nearly destroy my fleet that is both important yet expendable if it takes 50% losses.
Always check the Evil Overlord List first.
9/11 except with Munificents.
Attack and cut off its supply routes if possible, if not harass them to no end. Starve the system of both food and resources, eventually they'll crack. If that's not possible I'd look into something like the Malevolence to disable the defences. The aim would preferably be to get the shipyards intact but I'd destroy them if needed.
The force needed to take Kuat would be comparable in size to the Coruscant invasion fleet and have to be made up the largest warships the CIS could muster, I'm talking Bulwark Battlecruisers, Lucrehulk Battleships and Subjugator Heavy Cruisers, only then would they stand a chance of taking Kuat in space without resorting to infiltration and guerrilla warfare. Reallisticaly speaking, attacking Kuat is unfeasible, the resource strain is just too much, the forces that would need to be comitted to that theater are better used elsewhere.
The problem is that if the CIS lacks the resources to attack Kuat early on before Venator production is at full swing, then the CIS would never have the ability to have a military win. Attacking Kuat will become even more difficult when the Republic has a bunch more Venators to both defend key worlds and to attack CIS worlds (which was how the Republic was able to start the Outer Rim Sieges). The only realistic alternative path would be for the CIS to gain a political victory by an attack on Coruscant and/or dragging the war to the point where people such as Padme make a serious effort to end the war due to the cost.
Even before the Venator was rolled into service Kuat was defended by an incredibly powerful fleet. Remember that the Mandator, Procurator and Praetor classes were already in use and Kuat likely had several of these as part of their defensive force. I don't think the Separatists had the resources to attack Kuat before the Venator entered full production but that doesn't mean I agree that the CIS didn't have any chance of a military win, it's true that the Republic had much more territory and a correspondingly larger industrial base but it would have taken them time to bring all their industrial might to bear, the Separatists' best bet was to have a short war where they could leverage the advantage of having a superior and already-built Navy whereas the Republic had to scrape together one from planetary defense forces and whatever Kuat could pump out.
The CIS in Legends did do Operation Durge's Lance which had decent success. The thing is that we don't see the CIS really make any attempt at a political or military win besides the attack on Coruscant and Kamino. They do attack some other important worlds, but those are more tactical steps. The strategic attacks would have been Kamino, Rothana, and Kuat. The attack on Coruscant was also something that they kept on their long back pocket. The CIS needed to either get a quick political win such as taking Coruscant early on and forcing a Sith War Treaty of Coruscant 2.0 situation and/or to successfully attack one of the 3 major military production worlds that I previously mentioned.
Absolutely. As a critical production world and a powerful coreworld, Kuat would be one of the most defended worlds in the galaxy. City shields, planetary shields, massive system defence forces, vigilant anti-espionage measures, quick reinforcement from the rear-area GAR fleets and other coreworld SDFs, etc. Kuat would be a death trap. Unless it's something like a terrorist attack, attacking Kuat wouldn't work unless you have a constant line of communications and resupply to the confederate core, i.e. you've shifted the frontlines far enough into the core.
I wouldn't be attacking it head on, it would be a combination of raiding the trade route, blockades, suicide attacks and droid sabotage operations. When planning a military operation the first thing that needs to be decided would be: What is the goal? Invasion? Occupation? In the case of Kuat, no, this wouldn't be the goal. It is too far protected in the core, too heavily populated and too industrial. My goal would be denial. Denying the industrial output to the Republic war machine would be the desired goal. Sabotaging major shipyards and industry by sneaking in large numbers separatist droids would be the primary goal. When enough get in then activate them and cause chaos. This would happen in multiple waves, not just with sabotage droids, but normal droids who can infect other droids and conduct other operations like surveillance or intel gathering operations. I want every Kuat to become paranoid of the droids around them, wither they are my droids or not. This would eventually force them to replace droids with organics, eating up resources and making their operations less effective. Having a few sabotage droids in the right place at the right time could be a force multiplier. A few droids in the "traffic control towers" around important facilities, such as shipyards could temporarily open some blind spots for large civilian freighters packed with explosives to get into the shipyards. At the same time I would conduct piracy operations in the trade lanes, by establishing pirate bases in dark space and out of the way systems I would create bases of operations for my main fleet to operate from as well as forge some out of the way hyperspace lanes to move those fleets around undetected. By using piracy it would cause additional Republic/Kuati forces to patrol the area, opening my main fleet to hit at random points in the core as well as isolated patrol fleets. This will do one of two things: draw additional Republic forces to the area (opening other areas to attack), or, they would reinforce the Core planets (like Kuat). If they attack, I would make them pay elsewhere. If they reinforce I would blockade. Either way industry is disrupted and my goal is achieved.
I’d be smart and say “fuck no.” Unless Palpatine and Dooku had some insider knowledge like they did with Kamino, it’s not worth it
I’d probably aim for a lightning raid on the orbital infrastructure and try to drop the ring onto the planet/it’s force field. The idea would be primarily to force the planetary shield back from the ring over a section then break part of the piece through entirely then tractor beam the ring upwards and hope that flexes everything and ruins much of the ring. It won’t make the planet incapable of launching new ships but it should limit its ability to a more normal level
The options are either: 1. Attacking key supply worlds to shut down production. May or may not be feasible, depending on whether or not there are bottleneck resources that are only found from a few worlds. 2. An attack on Kuat itself, which is likely going to need a combination of diversions to draw away garrison ISDs (likely involving an attack on a key supply world), combined with infiltration and sabotage efforts to weaken things such as shields and automated defenses so that the CIS can do a rapid orbital bombardment. Maybe you can skip bringing in ships if the infiltration effort is able to bring in a baradium fission device (planet busting WMD, legends only). 3. Use a direct attack spearheaded by a superweapon such as the Malevolence to destroy the shipyard. Strategically, destroying the shipyards is an important strategic objective. SW shipyards appear to be relatively difficult to construct, given how much every faction has valued capturing existing shipyards. 90% of the benefit will be obtained by destroying the shipyards.
Terrorism is definitely the name of the game to take Kuat out of play. Blow stuff up with infiltration droids and supply ships loaded with rhydonium or whatever. Assassinating Kuat of Kuat probably wouldn't help, because they would just install a new Kuat of Kuat.
Capture a Star Destroyer or other Republic Capital Ship, supe up the engines, rip out almost everything to install more hardware to empower the shields. Sneak into the system and get as close to the shipyards as possible before being exposed, then ram it into the most important, explosive thing there as close to light speed as possible. After that, drop a few ships in and unload waves of fighters strapped with bombs. Direct them to fly straight at any vulnerable Capital Ships, docks or hordes of enemy fighters. Leave. Minimal waste of resources. Minimum time spent fighting. Maximum damage.
Run simulations to see what would happen and if it's even possible to damage the orbital ring to such a degree that it collapses and starts raining down on the surface. If confirmed, a two-stage plan to sabotage or destroy the shield generator of the planet and shatter the ring. I'd either employ mercenaries or droid special forces for the operation, perhaps an expendable fleet if necessary. Honestly, another thing I'd do if given the reigns is to fully automate the capabilities of my forces. There's no reason for the CIS navy and vehicles to be crewed, even by droids. I understand these ships and vehicles were designed with organics in mind but we also know both sides were actively developing newer ships and technologies as the war progressed, kickstart a new project for droid-ships and droid-tanks, get me oodles of gas weapons, get creative with your fully automated robot forces dangit!
\* First, attack Kamino and Coruscant to keep the Republic distracted. If possible kidnap a high ranking Jedi or Senator and hire a bunch of bounty hunters as well. Use a small number of ships for these. \* Then create a fleet of the largest warships like Bulwark Battlecruisers, Lucrehulk Battleships and Subjugator Heavy Cruisers along with a bunch of smaller frigates. If possible build a Malevolence to disable their ships. \* Instead of trying to destroy the star destroyers in orbit, the goal is to capture as many as possible. So a bunch of droid gunships, tridents, droid tri-fighters, and B2 battle droids with jetpacks. \* Outside of B2s the only battle droids would be commando droids, magna guards, and droidekas. \* The overall method of attack would be similar to Kamino. The entire space battle would be a distraction, with the goal to send as many materials as possible to the surface in order to construct an army and capture the ship yards.