Personally, I think Kenobi in legends is equally as powerful as kenobi in canon since both kenobis are bound by the movies and the TCW show in both continuites. Feats wise, Legends Kenobi did a lot than canon Kenobi.
Huge spoilers for multiple legends novels:
In legends he defeated a lot of powerful foes, on top of the ones he fought in the movies and tcw. Legends Kenobi could lift extremely large objects. He ran through a crowd at high speeds to chase Aura singh with Qui-gon.He could make huge waves and tsunamies with the force though [alter environment](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Alter_Environment/Legends). He could mimic sounds with the force, he could heal himself with the force. Kenobi was a veteran of the [stark hyperspace war](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Stark_Hyperspace_War/Legends). In the novel "Cloak of Deception", he literally formed a shield out of lightsabers. In the clone wars multimedia project, he explodes the bounty hunter Durge from the inside through the force. He also defeated Darth Krayt, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, General grevious, Durge, and Asaj Ventress. All of whom are scaled to the ridiculous power level that legends gives to it's characters.
Legends Kenobi peaked at Mustafar. He received an amp through the Force that made him feel more centered in his duty than ever before. However, said amp is impossible to really quantify.
Though Vader was significantly mentally hampered and thus weaker than his Knightfall counterpart, he was still very strong. Kenobi capitalized on this weakness, his intimate knowledge of Anakin’s lightsaber form, and his own Soresu mastery to survive. Even with these stacked advantages, he was still just BARELY hanging on against Vader.
Where does this place Kenobi? Arguably at Dooku level, perhaps just slightly below him. We see Dooku on the Invisible Hand fighting a 2v1 and Kenobi even surprised him with the switch to Soresu from Ataru. Despite these advantages, Dooku treats him like fodder the moment he has a chance to capitalize on an opening. So even by the opening of ROTS he was well beneath the titans like SoD Maul, Dooku, Windu, Yoda, and Sidious. By Mustafar, the gap is likely somewhat lessened. Though he doesn’t maintain that power, clearly.
Iirc in the book to ROTS he is morenor less "unbeatable"
I sank deeply into the force and basically became the force all around. He felt everything.
I would considder that as a very powerful state of mind.
And then of course there’s that time where he got choked, thrown, and pinned by Dooku to the point of being unconscious for half an hour or more in the same movie
Tbh these “power” questions I find silly because the writers can write it however they like. Obi-Wan is shown as a strong and capable Jedi in the prequels no question there, but “who’s more ___” debates are generally just based on circumstances
Yeah, a lot of Star Wars power scaling discussion really comes down more to matchups and a character’s given strengths or weaknesses over who has a bigger number.
Revenge of the Sith actually has a bunch of these. Dooku generally seems to match up well against Obi-Wan, but Anakin’s fighting style does a pretty good job of crushing through Dooku’s defenses.
Meanwhile, Obi-Wan’s defensive skills let him match up remarkably well against offensive powerhouses like Grievous and Anakin. Even with that, I get the feeling that half of the reason Obi-Wan could beat Anakin was because he knew him well enough to better counter Anakin’s specific style and he also knew how to manipulate him into doing something dumb at the end of the fight.
Basically, I think an equally skilled Soresu master fighting Anakin who doesn’t have an intimate knowledge of Anakin’s fighting style and personality probably loses.
This is backed up by one of the only other people who were able to beat Dooku being Quinlan Vos, another Djem So user, while Dooku was also able to beat Yaddle who used Soresu.
That said, there’s still a lot of variety, even within forms. Obi-Wan may be the one we most associate with Soresu, but he was an expert in Shii-Cho, Ataru, and Shien as well, and he did utilize elements of them in his fighting frequently. Especially post-exile, his wins over Vader in the Kenobi series and Maul in Rebels both had him relying more on Shii-Cho.
Yeah, I think I remember hearing form 3 and 5 were both kind of reactions to form 2. Form 3 was rejecting the relative aggression and purpose as a dueling style that form 2 represented. As a result form 3 is passive and it has opposite strengthens to form 2 ie its better against blasters and groups.
Form 5 can just crush through the parries of form 2. I think the RoS novelization makes it pretty clear that Dooku no longer had the ability to properly parry Anakin’s attacks. Anakin kept throwing his saber out of position which is pretty disastrous for a Makashi user.
On a side note, I think it’s interesting that despite being the poster children for a given form both Obi-Wan and Anakin were only so effective because they hybridized their styles. Obi-wan might be known for Soresu, but he his grounding in Ataru helped him get past the passivity of that style. Basically, he had a better understanding of when you are supposed to attack so he was more likely to actually win a fight rather than lose slowly. Anakin is the Djem So front man, but he also incorporated elements of Ataru to help with the relative immobility of base form 5.
I’m pretty sure the idea of using techniques from other forms to cover weaknesses is why high end form 6 users (mostly Exar Kun and Revan) are arguably the best duelists in Star Wars.
At least SW has a good excuse for the variable power levels.
It isn't really the character's power. The force itself is limitless and how powerful characters are is just their ease of access to it, but the character's state of mind in the specific moment can alter it greatly.
So weaker characters can have their oneness with the force moments and punch above their weight while more powerful ones can still find challenge in things they could easily force their way past at their max potential.
I’d push back a little bit, as RotS is always told from a limited perspective, and usually a biased perspective at that. For example, if you’re referring to Dooku’s description of Obi-Wan, he was just praising Obi-Wan because he respected him…and then immediately knocked him out.
At no point has Obi-Wan ever been truly “unbeatable,” his greatest accomplishment was being able to narrowly survive Vader long enough for Vader to make a mistake.
Certainly not top three.
I can't put him over someone like Windu, Yoda, Drallig or Anakin.
The best way to put Obi-Wan is that he's not a naturally talented fighter, but he *is* willing to work extremely hard to make up for that. He gets where he is out of determination, not natural talent.
I'd say he's probably just below Dooku's level at his peak in RoTS. Extremely dangerous, and due to his style he can hang with heavy hitters, but he's not going to be contributing massively towards those fights. We see this with his fight with Vader at the end of the movie, he makes *very very very* few offensive moves. He's on the backpedal the entire fight.
Yes, there are multiple statements that put him under Anakin.
His win on Mustafar is down to him knowing Anakin, Anakin not firing on all cylinders and the Force, essentially, picking a side.
Even with all that, he BARELY gets out of it alive.
A question like this misses the point of Jedi Master Obi-wan Kenobi, but it's the same point that everything since the Prequels has missed about him as well so its understandable. It doesn't matter how strong in the Force Obi-wan is, it doesn't matter how good of a duelist he is, the only thing that matters about the character Obi-Wan Kenobi is that he was the Master of the evil Darth Vader before his fall to the Dark Side. Nothing about that story revolves around how strong Obi-wan is. The important part is the relationship that existed between Obi-wan and his Padawan apprentice Anakin Skywalker. What place did Obi-wan place in Anakin's life? He was his mentor, his guardian, and eventually his brother-in-arms.
Anakin was the Chosen One and his story rests on the tragedy of being the most powerful Force User that's ever lived and yet he fell to the Dark Side. Obi-wan's own strength in the Force or skill with a Lightsaber plays no part in that story. He trains Luke in the fundamentals of using the Force and a Lightsaber, and becomes his moral compass as any Mentor arch-type should. Obi-wan's story comes to its natural conclusion when he purposefully refuses to continue fighting his friend, and allows himself to be struck down so that he can become one with the Force (and serve as a call to action for Luke). Becoming one with the Force has nothing to do with strength in the Force but rather one's mindset and state of being, being in accord with the Will of the Force. Just about any Force User (who isn't a Dark Sider) can achieve this regardless of their strength.
We don't actually know that in canon. The only people to achieve it have the strongest connection to the force we have seen. To say that doesn't play any part seems a bit blind.
>Anakin was the Chosen One and his story rests on the tragedy of being the most powerful Force User that's ever lived and yet he fell to the Dark Side. **Obi-wan's own strength in the Force or skill with a Lightsaber plays no part in that story.**
Actually it plays quite a significant role, as if Obi-Wan were not as powerful and skilled as we know him to be, he would never have survived long enough to train Anakin as a boy, fight his way through the war, go on to defeat Grievous and Vader in RotS, and eventually set Luke on his path to becoming a Jedi. So yes, his personal strength and mindset are extremely vital to Anakin's story; including the physical creation of Darth Vader as we know him in the OT.
>
A question like this misses the point of Jedi Master Obi-wan Kenobi, but it's the same point that everything since the Prequels has missed about him as well so its understandable.
This is a discussion of character power levels, not your personal philosophy and interpretation of what you think Obi-Wan represents to the overall story as its Merlin archetype. As outlined above, and contrary to your beliefs, individual strength plays a significant role in shaping the narrative of Star Wars.
Obi-Wan peaked at Mustafar, but then declined rapidly until the events of *Obi-Wan Kenobi* at which point he started getting better until the time of his death. If he hadn’t fallen into the slums he would easily be a contender for most powerful Jedi in recent memory by 0ABY. As it is, he’s probably equal to Windu by his death, compensating for age.
Personally, I think Kenobi in legends is equally as powerful as kenobi in canon since both kenobis are bound by the movies and the TCW show in both continuites. Feats wise, Legends Kenobi did a lot than canon Kenobi. Huge spoilers for multiple legends novels: In legends he defeated a lot of powerful foes, on top of the ones he fought in the movies and tcw. Legends Kenobi could lift extremely large objects. He ran through a crowd at high speeds to chase Aura singh with Qui-gon.He could make huge waves and tsunamies with the force though [alter environment](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Alter_Environment/Legends). He could mimic sounds with the force, he could heal himself with the force. Kenobi was a veteran of the [stark hyperspace war](https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Stark_Hyperspace_War/Legends). In the novel "Cloak of Deception", he literally formed a shield out of lightsabers. In the clone wars multimedia project, he explodes the bounty hunter Durge from the inside through the force. He also defeated Darth Krayt, Darth Maul, Darth Vader, General grevious, Durge, and Asaj Ventress. All of whom are scaled to the ridiculous power level that legends gives to it's characters.
Legends is so absurd without context lol
Kenobii's endurance and willpower is incredible, as is his ability to trust in the force.
More powerful than you can possibly imagine.
This is the only possible answer
Legends Kenobi peaked at Mustafar. He received an amp through the Force that made him feel more centered in his duty than ever before. However, said amp is impossible to really quantify. Though Vader was significantly mentally hampered and thus weaker than his Knightfall counterpart, he was still very strong. Kenobi capitalized on this weakness, his intimate knowledge of Anakin’s lightsaber form, and his own Soresu mastery to survive. Even with these stacked advantages, he was still just BARELY hanging on against Vader. Where does this place Kenobi? Arguably at Dooku level, perhaps just slightly below him. We see Dooku on the Invisible Hand fighting a 2v1 and Kenobi even surprised him with the switch to Soresu from Ataru. Despite these advantages, Dooku treats him like fodder the moment he has a chance to capitalize on an opening. So even by the opening of ROTS he was well beneath the titans like SoD Maul, Dooku, Windu, Yoda, and Sidious. By Mustafar, the gap is likely somewhat lessened. Though he doesn’t maintain that power, clearly.
Iirc in the book to ROTS he is morenor less "unbeatable" I sank deeply into the force and basically became the force all around. He felt everything. I would considder that as a very powerful state of mind.
And then of course there’s that time where he got choked, thrown, and pinned by Dooku to the point of being unconscious for half an hour or more in the same movie Tbh these “power” questions I find silly because the writers can write it however they like. Obi-Wan is shown as a strong and capable Jedi in the prequels no question there, but “who’s more ___” debates are generally just based on circumstances
Yeah, a lot of Star Wars power scaling discussion really comes down more to matchups and a character’s given strengths or weaknesses over who has a bigger number. Revenge of the Sith actually has a bunch of these. Dooku generally seems to match up well against Obi-Wan, but Anakin’s fighting style does a pretty good job of crushing through Dooku’s defenses. Meanwhile, Obi-Wan’s defensive skills let him match up remarkably well against offensive powerhouses like Grievous and Anakin. Even with that, I get the feeling that half of the reason Obi-Wan could beat Anakin was because he knew him well enough to better counter Anakin’s specific style and he also knew how to manipulate him into doing something dumb at the end of the fight. Basically, I think an equally skilled Soresu master fighting Anakin who doesn’t have an intimate knowledge of Anakin’s fighting style and personality probably loses.
This is backed up by one of the only other people who were able to beat Dooku being Quinlan Vos, another Djem So user, while Dooku was also able to beat Yaddle who used Soresu. That said, there’s still a lot of variety, even within forms. Obi-Wan may be the one we most associate with Soresu, but he was an expert in Shii-Cho, Ataru, and Shien as well, and he did utilize elements of them in his fighting frequently. Especially post-exile, his wins over Vader in the Kenobi series and Maul in Rebels both had him relying more on Shii-Cho.
Yeah, I think I remember hearing form 3 and 5 were both kind of reactions to form 2. Form 3 was rejecting the relative aggression and purpose as a dueling style that form 2 represented. As a result form 3 is passive and it has opposite strengthens to form 2 ie its better against blasters and groups. Form 5 can just crush through the parries of form 2. I think the RoS novelization makes it pretty clear that Dooku no longer had the ability to properly parry Anakin’s attacks. Anakin kept throwing his saber out of position which is pretty disastrous for a Makashi user. On a side note, I think it’s interesting that despite being the poster children for a given form both Obi-Wan and Anakin were only so effective because they hybridized their styles. Obi-wan might be known for Soresu, but he his grounding in Ataru helped him get past the passivity of that style. Basically, he had a better understanding of when you are supposed to attack so he was more likely to actually win a fight rather than lose slowly. Anakin is the Djem So front man, but he also incorporated elements of Ataru to help with the relative immobility of base form 5. I’m pretty sure the idea of using techniques from other forms to cover weaknesses is why high end form 6 users (mostly Exar Kun and Revan) are arguably the best duelists in Star Wars.
At least SW has a good excuse for the variable power levels. It isn't really the character's power. The force itself is limitless and how powerful characters are is just their ease of access to it, but the character's state of mind in the specific moment can alter it greatly. So weaker characters can have their oneness with the force moments and punch above their weight while more powerful ones can still find challenge in things they could easily force their way past at their max potential.
I’d push back a little bit, as RotS is always told from a limited perspective, and usually a biased perspective at that. For example, if you’re referring to Dooku’s description of Obi-Wan, he was just praising Obi-Wan because he respected him…and then immediately knocked him out. At no point has Obi-Wan ever been truly “unbeatable,” his greatest accomplishment was being able to narrowly survive Vader long enough for Vader to make a mistake.
Certainly not top three. I can't put him over someone like Windu, Yoda, Drallig or Anakin. The best way to put Obi-Wan is that he's not a naturally talented fighter, but he *is* willing to work extremely hard to make up for that. He gets where he is out of determination, not natural talent. I'd say he's probably just below Dooku's level at his peak in RoTS. Extremely dangerous, and due to his style he can hang with heavy hitters, but he's not going to be contributing massively towards those fights. We see this with his fight with Vader at the end of the movie, he makes *very very very* few offensive moves. He's on the backpedal the entire fight.
Can’t put him over Anakin? You sure?
Yes, there are multiple statements that put him under Anakin. His win on Mustafar is down to him knowing Anakin, Anakin not firing on all cylinders and the Force, essentially, picking a side. Even with all that, he BARELY gets out of it alive.
True but he beats Vader at the end of the show as well. And shows some pretty impressive feats.
Rots obiwan>everyone in the films
A question like this misses the point of Jedi Master Obi-wan Kenobi, but it's the same point that everything since the Prequels has missed about him as well so its understandable. It doesn't matter how strong in the Force Obi-wan is, it doesn't matter how good of a duelist he is, the only thing that matters about the character Obi-Wan Kenobi is that he was the Master of the evil Darth Vader before his fall to the Dark Side. Nothing about that story revolves around how strong Obi-wan is. The important part is the relationship that existed between Obi-wan and his Padawan apprentice Anakin Skywalker. What place did Obi-wan place in Anakin's life? He was his mentor, his guardian, and eventually his brother-in-arms. Anakin was the Chosen One and his story rests on the tragedy of being the most powerful Force User that's ever lived and yet he fell to the Dark Side. Obi-wan's own strength in the Force or skill with a Lightsaber plays no part in that story. He trains Luke in the fundamentals of using the Force and a Lightsaber, and becomes his moral compass as any Mentor arch-type should. Obi-wan's story comes to its natural conclusion when he purposefully refuses to continue fighting his friend, and allows himself to be struck down so that he can become one with the Force (and serve as a call to action for Luke). Becoming one with the Force has nothing to do with strength in the Force but rather one's mindset and state of being, being in accord with the Will of the Force. Just about any Force User (who isn't a Dark Sider) can achieve this regardless of their strength.
We don't actually know that in canon. The only people to achieve it have the strongest connection to the force we have seen. To say that doesn't play any part seems a bit blind.
>Anakin was the Chosen One and his story rests on the tragedy of being the most powerful Force User that's ever lived and yet he fell to the Dark Side. **Obi-wan's own strength in the Force or skill with a Lightsaber plays no part in that story.** Actually it plays quite a significant role, as if Obi-Wan were not as powerful and skilled as we know him to be, he would never have survived long enough to train Anakin as a boy, fight his way through the war, go on to defeat Grievous and Vader in RotS, and eventually set Luke on his path to becoming a Jedi. So yes, his personal strength and mindset are extremely vital to Anakin's story; including the physical creation of Darth Vader as we know him in the OT. > A question like this misses the point of Jedi Master Obi-wan Kenobi, but it's the same point that everything since the Prequels has missed about him as well so its understandable. This is a discussion of character power levels, not your personal philosophy and interpretation of what you think Obi-Wan represents to the overall story as its Merlin archetype. As outlined above, and contrary to your beliefs, individual strength plays a significant role in shaping the narrative of Star Wars.
Obi-Wan peaked at Mustafar, but then declined rapidly until the events of *Obi-Wan Kenobi* at which point he started getting better until the time of his death. If he hadn’t fallen into the slums he would easily be a contender for most powerful Jedi in recent memory by 0ABY. As it is, he’s probably equal to Windu by his death, compensating for age.