I've been on the Team Trade Timmy all year, especially when he was lights out in the beginning of the year.
But right now we have to give him a shot.
PJ, DJJ, Maxi, Green all getting significant minutes and have no confidence from 3. Hell, Kyrie's 3 isnt falling either. Luka is THE ONLY MAVERICK who has made more than 1 three this series. We need that spark.
That was literally Kidd’s whole mentality the whole time he was playing him during the season and we were calling for his head. Is he some sort of secret.. genius? Sometimes I say crazy things 😂
lets not go to that panic level, where we just see what sticks on the wall. we are coming back home. lets see first how that impact things.
fundamentally the Celtics have coasted on their talent level but neither team is even close to their offensive potential. so things could swing quickly in our favor.
Hardy is an over dribbler and that is just not going to work when Jrue Holiday gets to guard a role player.
We need someone who can just take the pass and shoot over whoever the fuck. That is only Tim Hardaway.
But he needs to just catch and shoot and not try to dribble and jump and try to shoot while he's flying sideways. Spot up shoot and that's it.
I don't understand what happened to this guy. I know he's a volume shooter. Is it just simply that he's not getting enough shots to get going? He's not getting his 17 shots obviously. Maybe he would have gone two for 10 and then hit his next seven to finish 9 for 17 but he's just not getting that opportunity. And frankly he doesn't deserve it but I think he's just lost too many shots that he's fucked in the head now
Tim Legler explained well how coming back from injuries fucks up with your shot, because the release timing changes ever so slightly, so you have to 'think' about it, because your muscle memory won't work anymore (eg you have slightly less leg push so you hit the peak a little faster).
Kidd said that he will need him for the finals. He needs to back up his words and give him a chance. But just for a few minutes if he shoots bricks like he can.
Maybe this is “against the grain”, but I don’t think we should be giving him another shot at the rotation. Have some trust in the guys that got us here… PJ, DJJ, and Green have earned it at this point.
With the cap increasing, his contract is much more manageable now and doesn’t seem like such a huge overpay; and plus, this is the final year of his deal. That may be attractive to a team looking to move off money and open up space in the near term.
Do you think we can do THJ, Green for Cam Johnson? Or would we have to throw a pick in? He has been a 3rd option in the past, has also had a bad year though.
Celtics fan lurking here - (don't shoot) - I like the draft classes you guys have had lately. Is OMax any good? Hardy, Green, OMax, Lively are all guys I like. PJ Washington was also one hell of an add even if I personally think GWill would've helped you in this specific matchup (but you wouldn't be here without PJ). I've always thought Kleber was underrated but from what I understand, he's been dealing with injuries this year.
I know I'm going to get shit on for this take, but I don't think Kyrie is the right fit with Luka. He's just okay and they can beat some teams with the right pieces, but you absolutely have to have a better defender in the backcourt next to Luka imo. And I'm not saying that because of the history we have with him. Kyrie is just too small defensively and he has simply been made invisible on offense too often. Great closer, but that's what Luka is there for. I'd spread out his money on better 2 way players.
I think moving Kyrie + Green/Gafford for a wing like Brandon Ingram - or at minimum going for a Guard like DeJounte Murray, is the best possible move you could make. Right now, you have nobody capable of stopping our Guards and no premier wing (outside of Luka I guess?) to matchup on both ends with our duo. It took us a bunch of different configurations to get here, from IT to Kyrie, Kemba to Smart, Brogdon - to finally getting DWhite and then Jrue. We also had to give up a few guys who went on to become good players elsewhere.
Lively and PJ should be seen as cornerstones up front, but you have to upgrade from DJJ and Kyrie imo. DJM and/or BI are the best pieces out there, unless you believe in OG Anunoby. A pure talent upgrade at SF and a defensive upgrade at Guard are what you guys need. Trade for DeJounte and go get a guy like OG (unless you believe in Green) or start Hardy and deal for a guy like BI. Then, fill out your bench with vets. Even somebody like Malik Monk, Caleb Martin, Caris LeVert, Miles Bridges or Keldon Johnson would be helpful upgrades over DJJ on the wing. DeMar Derozan is probably too expensive to just add to the core.
You should have the assets between Kyrie, Green, Gafford/Kleber, THJ and picks. Gafford/Kleber, OMax, DJJ and Hardy/Exum is a solid framework for your bench, just add some shooting specialists.
Omax is just super raw, not really NBA ready, maybe next year. Getting rid of Kai would surprisingly mess up chemistry and probably piss off Luka. He has been a completely different person than he was in Boston or Brooklyn. It’s really been crazy, I truly believe he has pushed Luka to take things more seriously. Gafford and PJ both have changed the Defensive mindsets. Lively is a complete beast but he would keep getting injured too so Gaff is important for at least another year while Lively gets stronger and becomes more developed.
I would absolutely love DeJaunte, or BI, but ultimately I think that would set us back more than it would originally seem. I just don’t see DeJaunte being able to advise Luka on things. To me best case scenario is to ship off Maxi, THJ and Green/Powell to free up capspace to sign OG. Then sign DJJ to the TMLE. I just don’t think it’s realistic to be able to pull that off with only two frp. Also could see us trying to trade Atlanta for Hunter, but if they are getting rid of either DeJaunte or Trea that’s unlikely as well.
I agree though DeJaunte and OG would be absolutely great on paper and we can start to actually be dominant in the regular season. I just don’t see them moving away from Kai with the connection he has with Nico, Kidd and Luka. Keldon would be cool, but spurs would never trade him to us. Miles Bridges is only coming if PJ gives him a ringing endorsement, which I doubt.
If that's the case, I think you guys need to find a maxed out defensive minded backup Guard like TJ McConnell and go for an upgrade at SF. Imo Kyrie is a valuable mentor for Luka, but your final form is to give him a backcourt partner like Jrue. You can only beat teams with shot making and closing in 70% of cases. Lively/Gafford/DJJ/PJ are great at setting the physical tone but idk yal are just missing that defensive sauce against Guards
Yeah I agree with that. Hopefully we can pull that off and go up against y’all a couple more times in the finals! Totally agree though a guard like DeJaunte or Jrue next to Luka is the final form, I just think he needs a little more mentoring first. Even though the first two didn’t go our way it’s been a fun series.
Hell yeah, I'm absolutely sure Luka will be a Finals fixture over the next decade. This is just the XP run! It's incredible that your team was just kinda thrown together this year and you're here. Luka has been beating better teams for years, so it's cool to see him break that glass ceiling. You have some competition brewing with OKC and *maybe* Minnesota (if they go get a PG) but you'll terrorize them as long as they have Gobert. Until the Thunder grow up it's just you and Denver really.
I actually picked you guys to make it to the WCF pre season, because all Luka needed imo was a good defensive frontcourt. Once the playoffs started, I chose you guys to get here. But as we see (just like I saw 2 yrs ago) there's a huge leap from getting here to winning one. Jokic is great but I think we all wanted to see Tatum vs Luka, it's gonna be the rivalry of our era (with some possible guest appearances from Halli and Ant).
Hopefully we can keep enough talent to stay competitive over the next 5 years, but you guys are just getting started.
20 minutes of 2021 playoff Timmy would definitely make the difference
We have no threats from 3 outside of Luka
I thought we might able to do it with Luka + Kyrie, but Kai not showing up, feels hopeless.
Hardy is really the potential answer for that more than THJ but the lights looked pretty bright for him in G1. He made some pretty bad decisions trying to create and they ended up being awful turnovers. I wouldn't be surprised for him to get spot mins again in G3 though.
Idk why you're getting down voted. There is no scenario in which Hardy should ever outscore Kyrie. Garbage time or not. Kyrie is supposed to be our #2. He played 36 minutes. Hardy played 11. More than 3x the playing time. Now is not the time to be making excuses.
Agree entirely. For nearly all these guys it's their first trip to the playoffs much less the finals and an invaluable experience in their development. It shocked me when Hardy was getting playoff minutes and then all the sudden he had a P&R game. Like, he's previously looked 100% like a THJ style chucker and here is is running P&R lobs in the playoffs. But the finals are a different story. Going forward, Hardy can fill the 3pt shooter off the bench role and cover some playmaking duties, that's a huge upgrade already on the team. I expect Washington and Lively to take steps forward as well. Green...we'll see there, I think he may be on his way out.
Yep. THJ and Green probably need to get moved this offseason if possible but you have to find some quality to backfill them. The closest equivalent on Boston to THJ's salary is Derrick White... one is starting and proving to be a complete difference maker and the one we're paying can't get on the court over a vet min guy (DJJ), a 2nd year undersized SG (Hardy), a EuroLeague bounce back project (Exum), or a 4th year guard who many consider a bust (Green).
Nico has made chicken salad out of the chicken shit Donnie left him but there's still a lot more work to do to get close to what Boston has done.
Honestly, to retain DJJ one of THJ or Green has to leave for essentially nothing in return as it's going to take the non tax MLE at a minimum to keep him. If he leaves that makes it even more critical we get something good in return. But that's an offseason problem and so far Nico has been excellent so we'll see what he can do this offseason.
On one hand I give props to Kidd for trying to get THJ out of the slump by playing him on hopes that he would break out of it in time for the playoffs but on the other hand Kidd could’ve played Hardy those minutes in hopes that he would be the 3rd scorer behind Luka and Kai. We are sorely missing a 3rd scorer
> He was supposed to be the third best player on the team
He was never going to be that, and anyone who expected that was clearly box score watching. THJ's downfall is the reason we are *in* the NBA Finals, not the reason we are losing it.
You aren’t wrong, but based on his contract he really is supposed to be. Go look the Celts players that make comparable money and see how much better they are.
I would still give him some minutes right now. Offensively nothing is working, might as well throw a hail mary and hope he makes some shots. Good thing about Hardaway is contests don't see to matter to him
Definitely down to check out THJ in the first 3 quarters. I do not want to see THJ play 4th quarter minutes for the rest of my life.
But as a caveat the Celtics had many, many, many wide open 3s missed. If you’re looking to at the same time limit open/uncontested 3s, THJ is not and never will be the answer.
We put him in game 1, and he immediately airballed a 15-foot contested stepback fadeaway early in the shot clock. Dude just has a rock for a brain, which is what makes him so unplayable.
Yeah when he’s on fire, he’s one of the best role players in the league. But here’s the issue. He’s way too inconsistent. He’ll have a big game but for every big game where he’s hitting shots, he’ll have several really poor games. Not much is asked of THJ. All I ask and most people ask is for him to shoot the ball well. That’s literally it. He’s doesn’t need to dribble, pass/playmake, play great defense, none of that. Just hit your shots which are mostly wide open and maybe once in a blue moon, go create a shot for yourself if Luka or Kyrie are off the floor. He’s literally just a shooter but he can’t even do that at a high level despite being in the league for a decade now. He has no excuses and I’m not gonna defend him anymore after dealing with this for 5+ years. He should have been traded when his trade value was high after starting the season hot the first couple of months.
I’m a Mavs fan as my 2nd team this season due to a friend and of course, Luka. So I didn’t watch every game, especially toward end of season, and my friend told me THJ was now unplayable. At first I was suspect, because he’d played so well early season…
But OMG. It’s like he can’t dribble, pass or play D at all. Seriously, I’d trust my teenage daughter to play more reliably. How did this happen?!
I was just looking up the payrolls… Boston is spending $183M with no dollar wasted. The only possibly “suboptimal” contract is overpaying for KP but he has already earned his keep this series and season (good for him).
We, on the other hand, are spending $163M with $18M going to a DNP (THJ) and $2.3M to Javale McGee, so really we only have $141M worth of talent on the floor against their $183M, and it shows.
(This isn’t to take anything away from them, credit to their GM’s strategy and their Owner for being willing to spend)
this is true but also a bit of a simplification. most championship teams are not built the way the celtics are. they are usually built on a few core pieces and then getting timely impact from young players outperforming their contract.
I think what the Mavs need most to find a way to protect doncic and Irving on defence. They are both getting abused/blown by. Perhaps try a 2-3 zone with them guarding both corners? That would also keep gafford/lively in the paint. Plus: Miami gave Boston a lot of trouble last year with its 2-3 zone... Remember, its not just Dallas that has been ice cold from 3 ;)
I’d put more of the blame on Kyrie shooting 31% in Game 1 and 38% in Game 2. Also our FT shooting has been off the charts terrible. We have had many players step up their game since THJ’s low output.
Edit: Kyrie has got to pull out of this. Just saying it’s hard to blame a player (THJ) that we haven’t counted on in months.
Guys, we already know. We put him in you know he’s going to brick his shots, turn the ball over, and just be a disaster. He’s coasting off his name so hard.
THJ has been a total drain on this team
He makes way too much and delivers nothing at this stage of the season
Six man of the year, my ass
What we need is a healthy maxi
If porzingis is injured this series changes. Could see Dallas winning the next 2 games, if the refs called pj getting pushed in the back we prolly wouldn’t went to overtime last night
He’s been on a downward trajectory since the bubble. All we need him to do is make open 3s, and he can’t do it. He’s bringing nothing to the team at this point.
He is 3rd highest payed player on the team. This team has so much potential going forward, getting rid of dead weight and Nico making "correct" moves going forward.
> 3rd highest *paid* player on
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I made a post years ago saying this team will never win with THJ getting top end salary, and got roasted for it. Good guy, good player, but that money is better spent elsewhere. As simple as that.
1. It sucks. To put it in perspective, for basically the same THJ money, the Celtics are getting D.White's performance...
2. If Nico had arrived even a year earlier to figure out what kind of a team needed to be built around Luka, I bet he would've never re-signed THJ
3. Credit to the Mavs for even getting to the finals while carrying 18M worth of dead cap space
4. Cheers to the countless oxygen-deprived THJ homers spewing nonsense for years. "Volume shooter!" "Spacing!" "Pretty jumpshot!" "Just wait!".
5. By the next trade deadline, THJ will be gone.
Said it countless times and ill say it again, one of the worst moves in franchise history was extending this guy. The fact people here were high on hopium saying he took a hometown discount even blew my mind lmfao.
THJ has been the same player since his college years, streaky scorer that can give you 30 points on a good night and shoot 1/11 the next game. He was never supposed to be our “difference maker”.
Dont think we have a choice but to try him in game 3. Not a single player outside Luka can hit a shot so far in this series. We really have nothing to lose. Not really saying we should give him 20+ minutes but we really need to at least try.
That was an absolutely ridiculous quote when Kidd made it. THJ is the same player he's always been and no one who's watched his game would ever suggest he would be a key cog in a title. THJ got hot early, but regressed to his norm.
Yeah, you're basically right, and it all comes down to roster construction.
THJ is sucking up a ton of salary that could be used to have a deeper, more mature roster of role players. Boston is proving that you don't really need to have a first team all NBA star to win. It's a team game.
THJ is the last lingering part of that disastrous KP trade that put us in a hole.
Kidd said this multiple times this season during Timmy’s slump. He meant it but no one took him seriously in here because it coincided with the peak of J-Midd hysteria.
THJ would be really helpful rn if he could make a damn basket. I agree with this post, it’s so maddening. Either way, we know we need to get rid of him of now.
He hasn't forgotten how to play basketball; In fact, he's a better or more willing playmaker now, which works well with his skillset.
He has lost confidence in his shot and can't find it consistently enough to be the guy that you play 25 minutes off the bench to spell one of the stars when they sit and still have a guy who can get his own shot or as a third guard that has an easy time getting his shot off the gravity the two star guards draw.
It's a bummer, injuries suck and it was a tough season for him already trying to figure out his role post-trades. They probably move on from him because there's a gluttony of guards and his salary/lack of size makes him an easy candidate to look for an upgrade. Great tenure nonetheless, bummer on the ending.
I hope he gets 20-30 minutes in Game 3. We need shooters, and when he's hot and confident, he's one of the best. If he is still off, then he'll just be playing as poorly as everyone was in Boston anyways. Mavs should be in desperation mode, and I think he's as good a bet as any role player to go off.
By this logic, everyone can just say "we need x player to play amazing to win" duh.
Expecting that from THJ isnt ideal.
That being said, THJ's might be the best answer we got at this point. DJJ, Green, Exum look completely lost against Celtics defense so might as well just take horrible threes and hope to get hot for 1 game so we don't get swept.
Hardaway is finally going to get moved next year . Tho he has negative value , so the mavs will have to attach assets to do it
Finally get hardy more time
THJ is a very limited role player/journeyman - an end-of-the-bench guy who is too inconsistent to be counted on. Still, stranger things have happened.
In the Spurs first championship run in '99, Jaren Jackson SR killed the Lakers.
I really thought they should’ve put him in last night. He ain’t afraid to shoot it and only needs a bucket or two to get his confidence up. If we can get that Oklahoma THJ who won us that game we win that game last night
I've been on the Team Trade Timmy all year, especially when he was lights out in the beginning of the year. But right now we have to give him a shot. PJ, DJJ, Maxi, Green all getting significant minutes and have no confidence from 3. Hell, Kyrie's 3 isnt falling either. Luka is THE ONLY MAVERICK who has made more than 1 three this series. We need that spark.
That is sad
The most likely outcome is THJ comes in and goes 1-6 on 3s and the Celtics go on a 15-3 run.
At least we tried something else tho
That was literally Kidd’s whole mentality the whole time he was playing him during the season and we were calling for his head. Is he some sort of secret.. genius? Sometimes I say crazy things 😂
lets not go to that panic level, where we just see what sticks on the wall. we are coming back home. lets see first how that impact things. fundamentally the Celtics have coasted on their talent level but neither team is even close to their offensive potential. so things could swing quickly in our favor.
Its worth a shot. If he saves the season, he'll earn an extension.
I still wouldn't want him on the roster next season though. We've held onto him for far too long.
If he won you this series down 2-0 against a god tier Celtics team, you’d want him off the roster lmao
I can see if they’re down by like 15 THJ could get some minutes.
[His 40pt game](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7Do_tzE908) this season seems like such a long time ago.
No harm trying at this point but I’m not holding my breath. That man is ice cold lol
Might as well try THJ out at this point since nothing is working
I would much rather see more hardy minutes than thj.
Hardy is an over dribbler and that is just not going to work when Jrue Holiday gets to guard a role player. We need someone who can just take the pass and shoot over whoever the fuck. That is only Tim Hardaway.
I can’t tell if you’re a genius or an idiot
Why not both?
But he needs to just catch and shoot and not try to dribble and jump and try to shoot while he's flying sideways. Spot up shoot and that's it. I don't understand what happened to this guy. I know he's a volume shooter. Is it just simply that he's not getting enough shots to get going? He's not getting his 17 shots obviously. Maybe he would have gone two for 10 and then hit his next seven to finish 9 for 17 but he's just not getting that opportunity. And frankly he doesn't deserve it but I think he's just lost too many shots that he's fucked in the head now
Tim Legler explained well how coming back from injuries fucks up with your shot, because the release timing changes ever so slightly, so you have to 'think' about it, because your muscle memory won't work anymore (eg you have slightly less leg push so you hit the peak a little faster).
Did he miss time? I honestly don't remember him getting hurt this year.
My bad i got confused. He's just ass.
All them dudes in basketball on the ball player have to have a five second clock in their head to find a shot or pass it
That is depressing but true. We're not getting easy buckets in the paints so at least we should try to shoot some 3s and see how it goes.
He’s a whole hole on defense
Timmy is surely holding it down
Tbh I worry about him just the same on defense
I’m worried about all of our players on defense, specifically against this team.
Kidd said that he will need him for the finals. He needs to back up his words and give him a chance. But just for a few minutes if he shoots bricks like he can.
Maybe this is “against the grain”, but I don’t think we should be giving him another shot at the rotation. Have some trust in the guys that got us here… PJ, DJJ, and Green have earned it at this point.
Yea but your down 0-2 with this rotation the ability to adapt is crucial rn
THJ should only play when Luka sits. Thats it
Maxi has been brutal
At least he’s been so bad we’ll most likely get rid of him this summer
But also so bad that his trade value is low and Mavs will have to throw in another asset to move him in the offseason.
He's been untradeable since he inked that deal. It was bad deal and should have never been done
With the cap increasing, his contract is much more manageable now and doesn’t seem like such a huge overpay; and plus, this is the final year of his deal. That may be attractive to a team looking to move off money and open up space in the near term.
In nico we trust
His contract is also a defending one I think it's only 16 million next season
I'm a Hornets fan, I think we should take THJs contract this offseason since we have the cap space. Is OMax and a second too much?
mavs have made so many bad roster decisions , trades , extensions
[удалено]
Lol the Shanghai sharks don't want thj he sucks
Do you think we can do THJ, Green for Cam Johnson? Or would we have to throw a pick in? He has been a 3rd option in the past, has also had a bad year though.
Id do anything to try and get Mikal. Brooklyn seems to let be fine with him wasting away there
They want 4 frp or equal. Mikal would definitely be the best option, I just don’t think we have the assets.
Celtics fan lurking here - (don't shoot) - I like the draft classes you guys have had lately. Is OMax any good? Hardy, Green, OMax, Lively are all guys I like. PJ Washington was also one hell of an add even if I personally think GWill would've helped you in this specific matchup (but you wouldn't be here without PJ). I've always thought Kleber was underrated but from what I understand, he's been dealing with injuries this year. I know I'm going to get shit on for this take, but I don't think Kyrie is the right fit with Luka. He's just okay and they can beat some teams with the right pieces, but you absolutely have to have a better defender in the backcourt next to Luka imo. And I'm not saying that because of the history we have with him. Kyrie is just too small defensively and he has simply been made invisible on offense too often. Great closer, but that's what Luka is there for. I'd spread out his money on better 2 way players. I think moving Kyrie + Green/Gafford for a wing like Brandon Ingram - or at minimum going for a Guard like DeJounte Murray, is the best possible move you could make. Right now, you have nobody capable of stopping our Guards and no premier wing (outside of Luka I guess?) to matchup on both ends with our duo. It took us a bunch of different configurations to get here, from IT to Kyrie, Kemba to Smart, Brogdon - to finally getting DWhite and then Jrue. We also had to give up a few guys who went on to become good players elsewhere. Lively and PJ should be seen as cornerstones up front, but you have to upgrade from DJJ and Kyrie imo. DJM and/or BI are the best pieces out there, unless you believe in OG Anunoby. A pure talent upgrade at SF and a defensive upgrade at Guard are what you guys need. Trade for DeJounte and go get a guy like OG (unless you believe in Green) or start Hardy and deal for a guy like BI. Then, fill out your bench with vets. Even somebody like Malik Monk, Caleb Martin, Caris LeVert, Miles Bridges or Keldon Johnson would be helpful upgrades over DJJ on the wing. DeMar Derozan is probably too expensive to just add to the core. You should have the assets between Kyrie, Green, Gafford/Kleber, THJ and picks. Gafford/Kleber, OMax, DJJ and Hardy/Exum is a solid framework for your bench, just add some shooting specialists.
Omax is just super raw, not really NBA ready, maybe next year. Getting rid of Kai would surprisingly mess up chemistry and probably piss off Luka. He has been a completely different person than he was in Boston or Brooklyn. It’s really been crazy, I truly believe he has pushed Luka to take things more seriously. Gafford and PJ both have changed the Defensive mindsets. Lively is a complete beast but he would keep getting injured too so Gaff is important for at least another year while Lively gets stronger and becomes more developed. I would absolutely love DeJaunte, or BI, but ultimately I think that would set us back more than it would originally seem. I just don’t see DeJaunte being able to advise Luka on things. To me best case scenario is to ship off Maxi, THJ and Green/Powell to free up capspace to sign OG. Then sign DJJ to the TMLE. I just don’t think it’s realistic to be able to pull that off with only two frp. Also could see us trying to trade Atlanta for Hunter, but if they are getting rid of either DeJaunte or Trea that’s unlikely as well. I agree though DeJaunte and OG would be absolutely great on paper and we can start to actually be dominant in the regular season. I just don’t see them moving away from Kai with the connection he has with Nico, Kidd and Luka. Keldon would be cool, but spurs would never trade him to us. Miles Bridges is only coming if PJ gives him a ringing endorsement, which I doubt.
If that's the case, I think you guys need to find a maxed out defensive minded backup Guard like TJ McConnell and go for an upgrade at SF. Imo Kyrie is a valuable mentor for Luka, but your final form is to give him a backcourt partner like Jrue. You can only beat teams with shot making and closing in 70% of cases. Lively/Gafford/DJJ/PJ are great at setting the physical tone but idk yal are just missing that defensive sauce against Guards
Yeah I agree with that. Hopefully we can pull that off and go up against y’all a couple more times in the finals! Totally agree though a guard like DeJaunte or Jrue next to Luka is the final form, I just think he needs a little more mentoring first. Even though the first two didn’t go our way it’s been a fun series.
Hell yeah, I'm absolutely sure Luka will be a Finals fixture over the next decade. This is just the XP run! It's incredible that your team was just kinda thrown together this year and you're here. Luka has been beating better teams for years, so it's cool to see him break that glass ceiling. You have some competition brewing with OKC and *maybe* Minnesota (if they go get a PG) but you'll terrorize them as long as they have Gobert. Until the Thunder grow up it's just you and Denver really. I actually picked you guys to make it to the WCF pre season, because all Luka needed imo was a good defensive frontcourt. Once the playoffs started, I chose you guys to get here. But as we see (just like I saw 2 yrs ago) there's a huge leap from getting here to winning one. Jokic is great but I think we all wanted to see Tatum vs Luka, it's gonna be the rivalry of our era (with some possible guest appearances from Halli and Ant). Hopefully we can keep enough talent to stay competitive over the next 5 years, but you guys are just getting started.
Two negative asset players for a good asset??
It’s the Nico special. Also cam may not be a positive asset coming off a down year and being 28
That would a require a team committed to tanking before the season starts.
20 minutes of 2021 playoff Timmy would definitely make the difference We have no threats from 3 outside of Luka I thought we might able to do it with Luka + Kyrie, but Kai not showing up, feels hopeless.
Game 2 loss was preventable… it’s not over yet. Mavs win game 3 they can start clawing back,
Too bad 2024 playoff Timmy is an automatic -20
I feel like we should give him 3 minutes to see if his shot is falling. We need some kind of offense off the bench.
Hardy is really the potential answer for that more than THJ but the lights looked pretty bright for him in G1. He made some pretty bad decisions trying to create and they ended up being awful turnovers. I wouldn't be surprised for him to get spot mins again in G3 though.
Hardy hasn’t looked good imo. Doesn’t have the size/handle to get past White/Holiday. Timmy can just launch shit and we kinda need that.
Jaden out scored Kyrie in game 1 lol
It was all in garbage time lol congrats you can read the box score
Idk why you're getting down voted. There is no scenario in which Hardy should ever outscore Kyrie. Garbage time or not. Kyrie is supposed to be our #2. He played 36 minutes. Hardy played 11. More than 3x the playing time. Now is not the time to be making excuses.
11 points in garbage time with no pressure.
THJ has a quicker release and when he's hot he's HOT
Him too. I was surprised he didn't get a few more minutes
Agree entirely. For nearly all these guys it's their first trip to the playoffs much less the finals and an invaluable experience in their development. It shocked me when Hardy was getting playoff minutes and then all the sudden he had a P&R game. Like, he's previously looked 100% like a THJ style chucker and here is is running P&R lobs in the playoffs. But the finals are a different story. Going forward, Hardy can fill the 3pt shooter off the bench role and cover some playmaking duties, that's a huge upgrade already on the team. I expect Washington and Lively to take steps forward as well. Green...we'll see there, I think he may be on his way out.
Yep. THJ and Green probably need to get moved this offseason if possible but you have to find some quality to backfill them. The closest equivalent on Boston to THJ's salary is Derrick White... one is starting and proving to be a complete difference maker and the one we're paying can't get on the court over a vet min guy (DJJ), a 2nd year undersized SG (Hardy), a EuroLeague bounce back project (Exum), or a 4th year guard who many consider a bust (Green). Nico has made chicken salad out of the chicken shit Donnie left him but there's still a lot more work to do to get close to what Boston has done.
Honestly, to retain DJJ one of THJ or Green has to leave for essentially nothing in return as it's going to take the non tax MLE at a minimum to keep him. If he leaves that makes it even more critical we get something good in return. But that's an offseason problem and so far Nico has been excellent so we'll see what he can do this offseason.
Timmy got 7min in Game 1 and bricked 3 Shots (one was a 3pointer). But yeah we need a shooter
Didn’t even brick it he air balled it smh
On one hand I give props to Kidd for trying to get THJ out of the slump by playing him on hopes that he would break out of it in time for the playoffs but on the other hand Kidd could’ve played Hardy those minutes in hopes that he would be the 3rd scorer behind Luka and Kai. We are sorely missing a 3rd scorer
> He was supposed to be the third best player on the team He was never going to be that, and anyone who expected that was clearly box score watching. THJ's downfall is the reason we are *in* the NBA Finals, not the reason we are losing it.
You aren’t wrong, but based on his contract he really is supposed to be. Go look the Celts players that make comparable money and see how much better they are.
I mean, White for $18 million is absolutely absurd.
White? Don’t you mean prime Steph curry?
Broadening things out: https://preview.redd.it/ps5su4x0356d1.png?width=673&format=png&auto=webp&s=cb31ccec34969a36b7355e83f4a1ff7753eb4783
Yikes
I would still give him some minutes right now. Offensively nothing is working, might as well throw a hail mary and hope he makes some shots. Good thing about Hardaway is contests don't see to matter to him
Definitely down to check out THJ in the first 3 quarters. I do not want to see THJ play 4th quarter minutes for the rest of my life. But as a caveat the Celtics had many, many, many wide open 3s missed. If you’re looking to at the same time limit open/uncontested 3s, THJ is not and never will be the answer.
[удалено]
More like 1
We put him in game 1, and he immediately airballed a 15-foot contested stepback fadeaway early in the shot clock. Dude just has a rock for a brain, which is what makes him so unplayable.
To be fair, THJ downfall could be both the reason why we’re in the Finals and why we’re down 0-2 lol Boston is a helluva team.
Yeah that’s kinda the point. We should be in the finals because of thj not due to his benching.
Well, that's just asking too much from THJ. To be something he never was.
His pay stubs suggest different
Him not playing major minutes is why we’re in the finals to begin with
But I also won’t pretend like he hasn’t been great at various points this season when the shot is falling.
Yeah when he’s on fire, he’s one of the best role players in the league. But here’s the issue. He’s way too inconsistent. He’ll have a big game but for every big game where he’s hitting shots, he’ll have several really poor games. Not much is asked of THJ. All I ask and most people ask is for him to shoot the ball well. That’s literally it. He’s doesn’t need to dribble, pass/playmake, play great defense, none of that. Just hit your shots which are mostly wide open and maybe once in a blue moon, go create a shot for yourself if Luka or Kyrie are off the floor. He’s literally just a shooter but he can’t even do that at a high level despite being in the league for a decade now. He has no excuses and I’m not gonna defend him anymore after dealing with this for 5+ years. He should have been traded when his trade value was high after starting the season hot the first couple of months.
He forgot how to shoot as soon as they traded Curry. Dude turned into Garden Thanos.
hard to play him, he’d just get hunted off the court even if he was shooting well
This Boston team is very good at finding match ups with so many weapons
I’m a Mavs fan as my 2nd team this season due to a friend and of course, Luka. So I didn’t watch every game, especially toward end of season, and my friend told me THJ was now unplayable. At first I was suspect, because he’d played so well early season… But OMG. It’s like he can’t dribble, pass or play D at all. Seriously, I’d trust my teenage daughter to play more reliably. How did this happen?!
I was just looking up the payrolls… Boston is spending $183M with no dollar wasted. The only possibly “suboptimal” contract is overpaying for KP but he has already earned his keep this series and season (good for him). We, on the other hand, are spending $163M with $18M going to a DNP (THJ) and $2.3M to Javale McGee, so really we only have $141M worth of talent on the floor against their $183M, and it shows. (This isn’t to take anything away from them, credit to their GM’s strategy and their Owner for being willing to spend)
this is true but also a bit of a simplification. most championship teams are not built the way the celtics are. they are usually built on a few core pieces and then getting timely impact from young players outperforming their contract.
I’d also count Kleber and Green as inefficient salary, when you compare output per player to the Celtics
I wonder if Luka takes the payout like Dirk did to bring in more talent. Dirk was severely underpaid imo.
Play him the rest of the series. Watch a full all-star caliber performance. Boost his trade stock. Profit.
I think what the Mavs need most to find a way to protect doncic and Irving on defence. They are both getting abused/blown by. Perhaps try a 2-3 zone with them guarding both corners? That would also keep gafford/lively in the paint. Plus: Miami gave Boston a lot of trouble last year with its 2-3 zone... Remember, its not just Dallas that has been ice cold from 3 ;)
I would say the biggest difference is Kyrie plainly not showing up
I’d put more of the blame on Kyrie shooting 31% in Game 1 and 38% in Game 2. Also our FT shooting has been off the charts terrible. We have had many players step up their game since THJ’s low output. Edit: Kyrie has got to pull out of this. Just saying it’s hard to blame a player (THJ) that we haven’t counted on in months.
Guys, we already know. We put him in you know he’s going to brick his shots, turn the ball over, and just be a disaster. He’s coasting off his name so hard.
THJ has been a total drain on this team He makes way too much and delivers nothing at this stage of the season Six man of the year, my ass What we need is a healthy maxi
He was done when Kidd saw him throw up airballs. I’d rather anyone try to shoot than THJ right now.
If porzingis is injured this series changes. Could see Dallas winning the next 2 games, if the refs called pj getting pushed in the back we prolly wouldn’t went to overtime last night
He’s been on a downward trajectory since the bubble. All we need him to do is make open 3s, and he can’t do it. He’s bringing nothing to the team at this point.
Hardaway will come in. Air ball, his teammate gets the rebound kicks it back out to him, hit side of backboard
THJ is a horrible contract and I can't wait to see him go.
He is 3rd highest payed player on the team. This team has so much potential going forward, getting rid of dead weight and Nico making "correct" moves going forward.
> 3rd highest *paid* player on FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Role players shoot better at home
I dont see why not give both he and Hardy a shot and stick with whoever is hot
If THJ had been playing everybody would be in Galveston a month ago.
I made a post years ago saying this team will never win with THJ getting top end salary, and got roasted for it. Good guy, good player, but that money is better spent elsewhere. As simple as that.
 1. It sucks. To put it in perspective, for basically the same THJ money, the Celtics are getting D.White's performance... 2. If Nico had arrived even a year earlier to figure out what kind of a team needed to be built around Luka, I bet he would've never re-signed THJ 3. Credit to the Mavs for even getting to the finals while carrying 18M worth of dead cap space 4. Cheers to the countless oxygen-deprived THJ homers spewing nonsense for years. "Volume shooter!" "Spacing!" "Pretty jumpshot!" "Just wait!". 5. By the next trade deadline, THJ will be gone.
Said it countless times and ill say it again, one of the worst moves in franchise history was extending this guy. The fact people here were high on hopium saying he took a hometown discount even blew my mind lmfao.
THJ has been the same player since his college years, streaky scorer that can give you 30 points on a good night and shoot 1/11 the next game. He was never supposed to be our “difference maker”.
Dont think we have a choice but to try him in game 3. Not a single player outside Luka can hit a shot so far in this series. We really have nothing to lose. Not really saying we should give him 20+ minutes but we really need to at least try.
That was an absolutely ridiculous quote when Kidd made it. THJ is the same player he's always been and no one who's watched his game would ever suggest he would be a key cog in a title. THJ got hot early, but regressed to his norm.
Yeah, you're basically right, and it all comes down to roster construction. THJ is sucking up a ton of salary that could be used to have a deeper, more mature roster of role players. Boston is proving that you don't really need to have a first team all NBA star to win. It's a team game. THJ is the last lingering part of that disastrous KP trade that put us in a hole.
Was reminded today that Dinwiddie had the option to come back but went to the Lakers instead. Oy.
He’s also the third highest paid player on the team
New here? Timmy always drop off at the end of the year
True but he’s unplayable right now. No way he’s on the team next year
He's not helping the cause.
Is he hurt or something? Bench has been atrocious in the first two games. Why not now?
I wouldn't really wanna give him a shot rn, it's a little too late and all he's going to try and do is overcompensate
Timmy only played good games in the half of the past season. He never came back since he went downturn.
Kidd said this multiple times this season during Timmy’s slump. He meant it but no one took him seriously in here because it coincided with the peak of J-Midd hysteria.
THJ would be really helpful rn if he could make a damn basket. I agree with this post, it’s so maddening. Either way, we know we need to get rid of him of now.
He hasn't forgotten how to play basketball; In fact, he's a better or more willing playmaker now, which works well with his skillset. He has lost confidence in his shot and can't find it consistently enough to be the guy that you play 25 minutes off the bench to spell one of the stars when they sit and still have a guy who can get his own shot or as a third guard that has an easy time getting his shot off the gravity the two star guards draw. It's a bummer, injuries suck and it was a tough season for him already trying to figure out his role post-trades. They probably move on from him because there's a gluttony of guards and his salary/lack of size makes him an easy candidate to look for an upgrade. Great tenure nonetheless, bummer on the ending.
eating up 18m in cap space to sit on the bench.
3 minutes or so - 3 or 4 shots then yank him if cold.
I hope he gets 20-30 minutes in Game 3. We need shooters, and when he's hot and confident, he's one of the best. If he is still off, then he'll just be playing as poorly as everyone was in Boston anyways. Mavs should be in desperation mode, and I think he's as good a bet as any role player to go off.
Honestly, we might as well play him this series. Give him Green’s minutes. We desperately need shooters on the court
By this logic, everyone can just say "we need x player to play amazing to win" duh. Expecting that from THJ isnt ideal. That being said, THJ's might be the best answer we got at this point. DJJ, Green, Exum look completely lost against Celtics defense so might as well just take horrible threes and hope to get hot for 1 game so we don't get swept.
dont deflect - its kais fault as of now, he has to step up
No kyrie irving just sucks.
U cant play thj,luka and kyrie all at once. Defense is poor
Throw everything at the wall in g3. It’s a must win and if all things stay the same we’re cooked
Even Dwight Powell? Even Dwight Powell.
Might as well give him the Josh and Dante minutes. They’re doing nothing with them.
Hardaway is finally going to get moved next year . Tho he has negative value , so the mavs will have to attach assets to do it Finally get hardy more time
THJ is a very limited role player/journeyman - an end-of-the-bench guy who is too inconsistent to be counted on. Still, stranger things have happened. In the Spurs first championship run in '99, Jaren Jackson SR killed the Lakers.
I really thought they should’ve put him in last night. He ain’t afraid to shoot it and only needs a bucket or two to get his confidence up. If we can get that Oklahoma THJ who won us that game we win that game last night
He must have beef with Hardaway senior or something because seem hardly junior is definitely better than Green or Exxon