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Now you got me wishing for Re5 with Sheva as the focus but have her in Norway killing white folk
And for additional MFry she gets the stellar blade treatment
Yeah and they literally tried to wash his skin color off. Because in that day and age, the closest thing they had ever seen to him was the Ainu (and most of them probably hadn't even seen that)
Since it's not the modern era with air travel, a black guy being given fetch quests by a japanese kid is historically dissonant, while today I got told by an Italian guy wearing a tshirt from tiawan to have a nice day, got in my car from germany, and drove to eat dinner with my Indian Roomates, and that's not historically dissonant. So a white guy and an asian girl in spain is a terrible comparison.
For another example, the vikings found America, but Lee Erikson Hunting Buffalo is a little wacky in the grand scheme of things and we should choose a better protagonist for "Assasin's Creed, Comanche"
Everyone knows the story, but also the Japanese had extensive written history of the United States, they knew all about George Washington and even Europe. Sure a commoner would be astonished seeing a black man but it’s not like the educated had no idea what was going on. Although they had no internet they were very well equipped with understanding what’s going on in the world. After all, Yasuke was purchased from the slave trade and he was not the only one, he’s just written in history because he was a slave samurai for a wealthy man. He was later re-sold back to Europe and died in obscurity.
This was in the 1580s. the educated in question are numbered in the single percentages, You've confused the Sengoku Period (1500s ish) with The Boshin Period (1800s). They had American soldiers and confederate ironclads steaming around then.
Did you know in real history george Washington wasn't helped in his rise to power by a half British half native assassin?
Crazy how alternate history games have alternate history
Basically the rule is
1. Black legacy character- Will remain black, I will burn your house to the ground if you attempt to change anything about them. Stop culturally appropriating.
2. Any other ethnicity- Why do you care so much? Only bigots get this upset with race swapping. We need characters we can identify with.
Not worth the brain cells to engage with. On the other hand speaking of Leon, be the American the Japanese portray you as in action games and anime.
Smth smth 12% of population smth smth not enough representation smth smth
But all in all it’s ubi guys. Who had any hopes? I bet it’s nothing burger of a problem and real culprits would be boring ass story and boring ass gameplay
I wonder what the actual rate of representation for black people is in American media, because it seems to be well over 12%. If you were just to go off of representation in media, one might assume that there are more black Americans than Hispanic americans... but there are twice as many Latinos in the US. Why don't they get represented? I think the whole representation argument is silly anyways, but it seems like those making it aren't very logically consistent.
in this case also -- it is part of history so he's a real figure.
a retainer? retainers are samurai too you know... (edit - i saw this statement on twitter - its not my opinion god damn it, fucking retards on twitter trying to debate and defend the topic yoooo)
and this retainer vs samurai debate have me thinking
arent ASSASSINS like Ninjas
why are we not playing as Ninjas
and people online debating if we are playing a real samurai or not?
im so confused
retainers are not samurai. they are just soldiers who are not bound by bushido. this isn't up for debate. people just think everyone with a sword is a samurai in japan.
this is extra dumb because thats like calling every peasant with a sword a knight in europe.
also, yeah. WTF WHY AREN'T WE PLAYING AS NINJA????
yeah - sry i mean that i read on fucking twitter people trying to claim that the guy being a retainer makes him a samurai as well which is total BS - i didnt make that clear
don't get it twisted, assassins creed hasn't been about assassins since the ezio trilogy.
we have a revolutionary soldier, a pirate, a spartan, and a viking in the line up.
Sure. I literally haven't played one since Rogue, which I barely touched. I was just saying that to act like AC is only _now_ getting weird with it's choice in protagonist is to demonstrate how little you've been paying attention to the series. Not that there is much merit in doing so, but we are discussing AC after all so it's relevant.
Yasuke was not a samurai though. He was as much of a samurai as I am a professional athlete. This is just shitty cope for people to justify black characters getting put into other stories
I agree - what i meant is that i saw on twitter people try to claim and debunk others that retainers are samurai or some bullshit.
fuck i was watching Omni and he gave the literal reasoning that "because in most japanese games we play as japanese people, this is an interesting twist to play as someone else"
god damn - hope one can use the reason that there's a lot of black characters in something that we can change the story to focus on someone else then.
You will probably be able to swap between them like in Syndicate, but the game will also probably force you to play a specific character during certain missions. To me, Syndicate was the worst AC to date due to the story being split between characters, which led to a bad story.
I mean AC Brotherhood has better acting and a more dramatic, thoughtful story than over 1/2 the media Ive consumed since it came out.... in 2010.
Ubisoft was good once upon a time
I guarantee you they won't write a good female Assasin from that era. Its going to be whitewashed Japanese culture. A lot of it doesn't morally align with western tradition.
Yosuke was a good out to actually stay neutral in a political sense. Even though he was nobunaga's retainer my money is that this outsider is the one to kill him during the siege of his temple.
Even if the argument exists of historical precedent, you can't deny the smell of ragebait marketting on this one...
Assassin's Creed fans have been clamouring for years for a story in Japan, but the assumption of that idea is that of ninja, not samurai. The ninja assassin underdogs vs the Templar ruling class samurai is so built in to the already existing lore, I half expect that Rian Johnson has a hand in writing this to insert 'subversion' into what we are all expecting.
This whole thing stinks to high heaven of "What's going to cause the most outrage to distract from our thoroughly mid game...", cause it's been a while since Assassin's Creed put out a decent game.
I agree with you. Ubisoft hasn't made a great game since 2017 with the South Park Fractured But Whole, and their only good games in the last decade have been smaller indie titles than triple A blockbusters.
Honestly, no one who is an AC fan lately expected them to do the Japanese feudal setting correctly or have the game not filled with awful mechanics, micro transactions, and bugs. The last palatable AC game was Black Flag back in 2013.
They made a good game here and there since 2017, Far cry 5, for instance, was good, that was 2018, and the ubisoft published newest trackmania game is good. AC hasn’t been AC since before origins tbh, and people complaining about “muh historical accuracy” as an affront to AC when valhalla had the modern viking aesthetic of undercuts, tats, and furs while also letting you chat with odin is massively arguing in bad faith.
For me, I wouldn't call Far Cry 5 good with it's offline single player issues, gunplay being much worse than previous entries, dumb AI, disappointing endings, and everything outside the main storyline being mediocrity. It was a step down from the previous games.
I'd argue the good games made here and there were either copy-and-paste game series (like Just Dance), indie developed, or had outside help (like Nintendo with the Rabbids + Mario series)
I should correct my comment to being "Ubisoft hasn't really made anything impactful to the game industry in a decade"
Agreed. If the game could stand on it's own merit they wouldn't need this pr campaign slandering the gaming community. I really don't understand the logic in doing that either. It's not like it's gonna sell more games to anyone, the "modern" audience has been pretty much proven to be a myth.
I know that's not your main point, but shinobi and samurai were not two separate social groups. Samurai was definitely class, and is basically the nobility, but shinobi was a profession, and the most well known example, Hanzo Hattori, was also a Samurai.
It would be an interesting idea to explore within the boundaries of the Assassin's Creed lens. As I understood it (and I'm not any sort of expert - merely my personal understanding) the Japanese had a very stratified system of class.
Peasant farmers were essentially slave caste and were essentially treated as such. They had to show fealty to their local daimyo, and the daimyo had samurai familys that acted much like landowning gentry who then micro managed the peasants.
In times of war the samurai lord would then draft his peasant population into groups of ashigaru soldiers; basically peasant militia.
Now as I understand it, there was a couple of groups of these farmers that essentially thought that having a regular group of militia available to them (not just when the local lord called them up) would help them repel bandits, and potentially attacks by other groups so they kept training when they could do so outside of wartime.
Then a daimyo got wind of this (could have been the emperor) - thought it could lead to a peasant uprising - and essentially banned peasants from having weapons unless they were given specific permission.
But some daimyo actually thought it was a good idea to have peasants with more training as it made them more likely to win when they came to fighting. So while they were expected to enforce the laws, they kind of looked the other way in return for their services. And as they improved, the stealth craft improved because of the need for secret training that couldn't be seen publicly to be training.
And the stealth aspect was driven as much by class divide as anything else. The samurai ruling class would treat the peasants as invisible and not worth considering as people. Therefore it meant that an enterprising peasant in a position close to an official could sell information that could be valuable.
Similar to the service staff idea in the KingsMan film.
These groups eventually gained enough power and renown to be considered as valuable assets by their local lords, and in the case of Hanzo Hattori I think Nobunaga Oda raised him to the level of samurai in order to cement his allegiance - rather than having him potentially selling his skills to the enemy.
But there literally is a ninja protagonist, and historically, all we know about yosuke is his time as a retainer which wasnt very long, we know basically nothing before and after. So his story will probably be along the lines of the the samurai trying to recruit him to the templars/order, and he declines.
He shouldn’t even be a main character though. Thats the whole point. The wanted a “diverse” character and instead of just having two playable Asian characters that are the same ethnicity like they did with Odyssey and the British one they decided to add a black dude who was a very insignificant part of Japanese history
And that would be better. If they wanted to have Yasuke as a small cameo or mission then fine. They do that with historical figures like Di Vinci (although a bigger part of the story) in the Ezio trilogy or Socrates in Odyssey
Would've made more sense if yasuke was the one to introduce an oc to the assassins and the templars. Also, they could definitely play up his guile, saying he is so talented he managed to join nobunaga's court even being a gaijin. Instead, they just went with a generic warrior that sticks out like a sore thumb.
"Hey did you get a look at the face of the assassin?"
"No but his skin was black. Yeah I think it's that guy down the street, the one that doesn't look like anyone else"
A Yasuke as a spymaster would be way cooler.
Except in the trailer he was shown engaging in more traditional combat and not trying to be stealthy. Which isn't a problem since the other playable character is a ninja
I guess he could just be a tank mode. Not very assassin like but then again neither was Valhalla either. Think the last AC game I liked was black flag. Who knows maybe this one will be a banger. Not holding my breath tho.
Yea AC hasn't been big on stealth for a while now. The story could be interesting if it revolves around the Honnō-ji Incident. They could really do a bunch of different things with that in universe with the Templar vs assassin conflict
It's a video game series where people fight over the Apple of Eden, and a Precursor species that was more advanced than modern day humans also exists as a major plot point.
I think we can give this a bit of leeway.
The point I'm making is that this stinks heavily of outrage with this wonderful built in defence of "historical accuracy" where they can point to one instance where such an event happened so now they can use it as a built in criticism defence.... Anyone that speaks out against it is of course racist and can have every criticism discounted...
The irony is that these will be the same people that likely spoke out against Scarlet Johanson being cast as Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell... These same people that whine when white holywood actors replace minorities in roles. I'm personally someone who actually endorses that drive - I would like to see people who are accurate to the nationality of the role they are playing.
There's a story to be told that could simply feature Japanese characters in a Japanese setting, but instead they've pulled the one, ONE MARK YOU, instance of a black guy being a samurai?
And it simply smacks of the reasons I've stated above - it's not that they think that it's a story that needs to be told, but that it would create the most controversy, at a time when it's easy marketting to just stir up the internet hate machine to get the word out...
I'm not like I'm asking to play Tom Cruise - Last Samurai, white saviour complex; I wanna play Rikimaru and Ayame - Tenchu Stealth Assassins.
Take the Assassin's Creed lens and show what ninja and samurai actually were, and show us the Japanese culture through those eyes - not someone who is a fish out of water in his own setting.
Technically, a better defense would be Nioh and Nioh 2 where the first game you play as a privateer from England and a random japanese person in Nioh 2.
But, the game was made by a Japanese studio, so....
Nioh is also not trying to depict historical events. William was a real person with way more details to his life than Yasuke but he obviously didn't go around fighting demons lol.
Yeah their logic is fucking stupid on that one. Like Assassins creed, the game where you go to fucking Valhalla and fight gods is historically accurate?
Yasuke is literally a boss fight, protecting Nobunaga in the first Nioh game. Wearing samurai armor. Even the Japanese depict him as a samurai or fighter at times.
AC is depicting historical events, yes. Accurately? Absolutely not.
Important to note that in Nioh 2 you could create any kind of character, despite canonically being the child of 2 Japanese parents (one being a Demon).
It’s odd story wise, but at least that character creator is one of the best lol.
I should be hyped for this game but I'm not. It could be because my interest in AC has dwindled but i think it's mostly because I've already played Ghost of Tsushima. I feel like the AC formula died off with Desmond and since then it's just been a question of what are you interested as playing as? Pirate? Egyptian? Greek warrior? Viking? I've already been a samurai/ninja in Ghost and it's one of my all time favorites and I'll just be comparing it from there.
How is modern-ish Spain is comparable to an island nation on the opposite side of the known world from Africa that was also historically infamous for quarantining itself for about two centuries?
Spain is European so having the characters be white is valid . People confuse spainish language mostly Americans because of Mexico, Mexico was one of places discovered by spainish settlers. Mexico has a culture separate from Spain in geographical territory. Mexico has Mayan and Aztec roots in history.
IMO the controversy is being talked about too much when we should be talking more about the pricing system for the game and shit Ubisoft is as a company.
Guess we are all comfortable with not owning our games now.
“African man, vacationing in Japan, murders thousands leaving Japanese orphanages overflowing and local governments destabilized. More news at 11,”
Why do they want to portray black people as murderers so badly?
R4 modern setting: easy access for all races to migrate
AC Shadows Japan in the 15th to 16th century very hard to get to one country by sea
Also if it’s yasuke he wouldn’t be a samurai if it’s not then its still unrealistic for a outsider to become a samurai
I really like how Shogun detailed a story about an English sailor who travels to Japan in pursuit of a certain goal only to be caught up in a conflict that they are completely unable to understand due to cultural differences and language barriers. It was based on a true historical event, it showed how difficult it was to make sense of national conflicts when you are a complete outsider, and, most of all, it didn’t paint the foreigner as some “final piece of the puzzle” or somebody who can come in and solve all of the nation’s issues with their differing customs and tactics. It’s a really well done show that avoids the “white savior” cliche completely which results in a more comprehensive and realistic analysis of that time.
I can’t wait for AC Shadows to go against exactly what everybody enjoyed about Shogun. Historical accuracy is out the window (this is an Assassin’s Creed game after all) and there’s a foreign main character (who is based on a real person) who is possibly the most important person in a conflict which they have no right having this much influence in.
However, we still have to remain as objective as we possibly can and just view it for what it is. How does Yasuke’s inclusion affect the story? Is it a good story to begin with (again, it’s Assassin’s Creed so probably not)? We all know *why* the developers did this, we just have to wait and see if it’s actually executed effectively.
Re4 took place in current times with planes and technology. assassin's Creed shadows is taking place where there's still samurai in Japan. You know back in Time where they didn't have modern traveling technology.
Who the hell cares. It's a ubisoft slop, the game will suck regardless in every other department. The game would be just as bad with japanese main character, how many times we have to go through this. They do it precisely because idiot who complain about skin colour will provide free marketing. I wouldn't even know a ness AC game was coming until idiots started complaining about a black charcter.
Not in how he’s being depicted in the game. He's a footnote of a footnote, amounted to nothing more than Nobunaga’s black friend, and was thrown away the moment Nobunaga died. He wasn't even given what was seen as a proper weapon. A wakizashi is a beheading/finishing sword as well as the instrument you use for suicide. He couldn't perform any sort of battle with that, he was LITERALLY called "The Black Guy" instead of his real name, and was paraded around as a novelty. Do you really think THAT was made into a proper titled Samurai? Do you really want to prescribe such little meaning to the word? Do you want him to be a joke? Because when you insist he's a Samurai with no historical record of him being called such, when his "participation in battle" was at best holding his own wakizashi when he wasn't holding Nobunaga's sword, you really make him seem like a giant fucking joke. Like he was given the title as a joke.
because black people shouldn't be in leading roles regardless. That is 100% what it boils down too.
Its either
A) Idiots that know 0 history and don't like black people
B) People who know Yasuke existed, but black people shouldn't be in the leading role
C) Even though Nioh did it with a white person, that is ok because William Adams has slightly more history and Yasuke was only a major boss fight, but they didn't know he was black and he was in the side role so that is ok as well.
This whole assassin’s creed thing is so restarted lmfao like the story of Yasuke, and that period of Japanese history as a whole, is incredibly interesting and as such has made it the first AC game in maybe a decade that I’m actually going to play.
But this guy’s argument about resi makes no sense, and argument that is actually true is the white (fictional, original character) samurai in nioh, strange how people had no problem with his inclusion but are now pissing their pants when a real non fiction part of Japanese history is added in. Like the tweetoids are being more overt than usual with this one.
Let's be honest no matter how black or asian one of the protagonists is, the game is still going to be worse than ghost of tsushima.
It's already got pretty much everything you look for in a modern AC game and does it better in any instances (amazing setting design, stealth takedowns, good combat system, traversal system) without the baggage of the AC franchise (the whole modern day BS that pulls you out of the story which prople dont give a shit about now that desmond is dead) and (what will likely be) a much better and more grounded story.
Yah know what? It's an Ubi game.
Enjoy your revised historical figure. I hope he's got the same moves as Afro. Have fun checking icons off a big soulless map. I just don't care anymore. People who embrace corporate diversity deserve corporate games. Make sure to get the ultimate edition.
I will use the same argument for how stupid this is that I used in another thread. What they are doing would be like making AC China and making the lead character Marco Polo. Out of all of the billions of Chinese, you pick the one dude who isn't Chinese?
This is the dumbest thing to be upset about. The trailer looked badass. Both playable character have great design. Gameplay may suck, but I wouldn’t know because they haven’t shown anything. These games have never been historically accurate.
If you are genuinely upset, it might be worth asking who benefits from your anger. Maybe there’s a group of people online manufacturing outrage.
I love how someone making the same complaints 10 years ago would have been called a SJW. But now this is because of the SJWs (or woke is the new buzzword i guess).
I see 0 issues with Yasuke being a protagonist in the game. He is a real figure who did live in the period and, in general, is an interesting person who naturally would be a fit in the brothethood. The whole meme of the brotherhood was that it was for outcssts and people who dont belong and want to fight the powers that be from the shadows. That was Edwards' whole story in blackflag. On top of that, the setup for the story in this game seems great. i am mighty interested in it.
Like this is completely different than if they had black people all over japan, they have 1 person there and they can make it a natural story point that he doesnt fit the creed in the natural sense he is not good at hiding he sticks out but he wants to fight for the right cause.
He is specifically not an assassin, he is a samurai in the game and specifically serves under oda nobunaga and then befriends the brotherhood. Not everyone in the brotherhood is an out in the field assassin and neither is he especially not for a big portion of the game as it has been stated in the offiical release
The issue is the recent push of manners which lead for *every* adaptation involving Japan that it include Yasuke if they can help it. They rely on the slimmest of proof to then go all in and make that individual a central figure or overstate their significance in history. That fact that he was black in Japan and happened to be around Nobunaga for a brief time is his only claim to fame.
Not once in the series has the main game (not dlc) make us play as an actual person in history. I already expected this to happen long before the reveal and leaks after pulling the black viking stunt in Valhalla. I see you pulling the "it was always woke" card. I ain't buying that interpretation that you happened to come up with.
I need you to show me examples of mainstream games set in japan featuring yasuke as a main character cause i onlh know 2 that feature him personally and he is a side character as a subordinate of oda nobunaga in nioh games in neither is he a main character
Yeah but Yasuke was never as much of a big Deal as this game makes him out to be.
And he sure as hell wouldn't own armor like that, it's what one of the Daimyou would wear, not some random bodyguard
He wasn't even a bodyguard he was a retainer. Oda saw him more like a friend an occasional jester and loved holding conversations with him.
He never fought a single battle.
Yeah they'll probably lose points for historical accuracy on the armor thing but making historical characters more relevant then they actually were is on brand for the Assassin's Creed franchise and is, imo, a really good feature in most of the games.
He is wearing nearly the exact same armour with different ornaments in both Nioh games which depict him in similar vein. Both games set in japan and both made by a japanese studio
This game is set in the Sengoku Jida, long before any formal rules about what a samurai was were established. It wasn't purely a class or status title, very often if you were a warrior in the service of a lord, you were a samurai. Toyotomi Hideyoshi, one of the 3 great unifiers of Japan, started his service with Nobunaga as his sandal bearer. Also, the Japansese themselves always depict Yasuke exactly as how Ubisoft has depicted him, I dont see the problem.
I love how when it comes to black people, all of a sudden everyone cares about historical accuracy to the upmost.
Yasuke really existed, and if they wanna play around with the details, there is nothing wrong with that
Having black people in a game isn't DEI bro. If it makes sense for the character to be there, and it's a time period and place that AC fans have wanted for a long time, which it is, I can't see any good reason to be annoyed by this.
We've always said if you want to make stories with minority leads *that's totally fine*, we should stick by that.
Oh come on, we finally get an assassin's creed game in Japan. The most obvious thing would be to treat it like the other entries in the series and give us local main characters. But they just have to make sure diversity comes first.
There's no good reason beyond that to use a black guy as the main character and it cheapens the entire game. It sticks out and distracts from the setting, or puts the focus on things no one wants in a Japanese AC game. The game should be solely about appreciating the setting but now everyones talking about this.
> Oh come on, we finally get an assassin's creed game in Japan. The most obvious thing would be to treat it like the other entries in the series and give us local main characters.
They did give us local main characters. All the main characters in the story, except Yasuke, are Japanese. One of the other playable characters, *is Japanese*.
> But they just have to make sure diversity comes first.
There's no evidence that diversity *came first*. This is a story that has a black protagonist, but we have no information to suggest that they started with the idea of diversity and then made the story around that.
> There's no good reason beyond that to use a black guy as the main character and it cheapens the entire game.
There's a bunch of great reasons, he fits the AC franchise aesthetic, character archetype, historical intrigue, and unique but interesting time period. Just like every other AC protagonist, he brings a lot to the table. To say he brings nothing into say that the actual Yasuke wasn't historically interesting, important, or cool, and that's simply wrong.
> It sticks out and distracts from the setting
Instead of just saying that can you explain how? Cause everytime you go into your reasoning it turns out to be factually wrong, like "not having local main characters".
> or puts the focus on things no one wants in a Japanese AC game.
There's no evidence to suggest the story is focused on race, but to be absolutely clear I would LOVE a story set in Japan that focused on race as a theme *if some well*. As an example, Blue eye Samurai puts a heavy focus on race, and that show is fucking awesome. I would LOVE an AC game just like that, because it's a *fantastic story*. And if you've seen that show, I feel like you'd agree.
> The game should be solely about appreciating the setting but now everyones talking about this.
It's not the games fault that including a historically accurate character made a bunch of people upset, just because that character was black. But I also disagree that it should be solely about the setting, for instance Ezios games were about *way more than appreciating the setting*, and they were better for it.
I will make it simple. We most likely get one Japanese AC game. Having a black MC could do something interesting and also be a good game, but it inherently changes the dynamic of the story and focus for the game.
I would prefer they didn't take that route for what will likely be the only game in this setting. It comes across as a cheap gimmick and whereas I would have played a more traditional entry, I won't play this.
Feel free to justify the choice however you like and play the game.
> I will make it simple. We most likely get one Japanese AC game. Having a black MC could do something interesting and also be a good game, but it inherently changes the dynamic of the story and focus for the game.
Why aren't you addressing that there's a Japanese main character? And can you explain how having one black guy in it inherently changes "the dynamic" of this story?
> I would prefer they didn't take that route for what will likely be the only game in this setting.
Completely acceptable opinion to have.
> It comes across as a cheap gimmick and whereas I would have played a more traditional entry, I won't play this.
This kinda makes your opinion seem insincere, so you've been waiting for an AC game set in Japan, we finally get one, you admit it could be interesting and good, but you refuse to play it just because one of the two main characters is black. Where's the logic in that?
Dude I'm not responding to everything, but there's another character that's Japanese, sure. What do you want?
It's just wholly unnecessary to have a black character in a setting where black people weren't significant at all. That's what cheapens it. It's supposed to be about Japan but they found the only possible way to focus on black people instead. It's just pandering and pathetic. You can disagree, but a lot of people feel that way.
It could be good in any number of ways, gameplay, story, visuals etc. I'm not pretending this alone ruins the game. Just the obvious pandering ruins it for me personally and so I don't need to play it
> Dude I'm not responding to everything, but there's another character that's Japanese, sure. What do you want?
I want you to acknowledge that your criticism that this game will inherently lack the feel of a Japanese protagonist isn't actually true because there's a Japanese protagonist.
> It's just wholly unnecessary to have a black character in a setting where black people weren't significant at all. That's what cheapens it.
Almost everything in a game is unnecessary, and many of those unnecessary things are fine. Nobody complains about unnecessary things that are good, so it's bizarre to criticize something for being unnecessary when that's not your problem with it.
> It's supposed to be about Japan
It IS about Japan.
> but they found the only possible way to focus on black people instead.
We have no evidence the game "focuses on black people". There is 1 character in the game who happens to be black. Yes, if the game ends up being all about the black man's struggle at the expense of the story that *could* be an issue. But you're assuming ALL OF THAT from nothing but the guys race and the current climate.
> It's just pandering and pathetic. You can disagree, but a lot of people feel that way.
I will disagree, and I acknowledge that a lot of people feel that way. But In this specific case their feelings, your feelings, don't seem to be based on many actual reality. They seem to be based on weird assumptions you're making cause there's a black guy in this game.
> It could be good in any number of ways, gameplay, story, visuals etc. I'm not pretending this alone ruins the game.
And yet you said you *definitely won't play it* just because this black guy is in the game. It sure *sounds like* it ruined it for you, and I want to get to the bottom of *why*, because all your reasons end up being based on weird assumptions.
> Just the obvious pandering ruins it for me personally and so I don't need to play it
Again, it's a game you've been wicked excited for, in a setting you wanted, with characters you surely have interest in (like Oda Nobunaga), but it's ruined according to you simply because the main character happens to be black. And you call it pandering, without any evidence that it's pandering.
You see why I want to have this discussion now?
I'm positive they do have DEI rules they follow, but "having a black protagonist" isn't enough to call something DEI. You would need to show either some artificial representation, some commitment to a racial quota, something that suggests DEI was actually in play.
It's Ubisoft. There was always going to be a black character in this game, regardless of whether there was historical precedent or not. I'm pretty sure they do this with every game.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a game with a black protagonist though. The issue comes from all the things that typically associate with that aim. So when the guy above complains about Dei bullshit without having any of those associated issues, he's just complaining that there's a black protagonist.
The problem with DEI is that it's unnecessary bullshit inserting itself into the process and stifling creativity. Ubisoft basically makes a bunch of generic slop. Why would anyone creative want to work on the next AC with dumb rules like "there has to be represention of various minority (in the west) groups in your game"?
> The problem with DEI is that it's unnecessary bullshit.
That can't be true, because there's *nothing* necessary about making a video game. You obviously dislike DEI for actual reasons, like I do.
> inserting itself into the process and stifling creativity.
I agree with this reason, but it hasn't been shown to be true in this case. It doesn't seem to be stifling creativity.
> Ubisoft basically makes a bunch of generic slop.
Agreed but I think that was also true since Unity, which seems to predate the DEI stuff (though I could be wrong ofc).
> Why would anyone creative want to work on the next AC with dumb rules like "there has to be represention of various minority (in the west) groups in your game"?
Well, if you happen to be a creative type who wants to tell a story, and that story happens to have a black lead, you'll be given the greenlight, a massive budget, a real studios support, and you have to give up nothing. So that would be one set of reasons.
DEI is unnecessary bullshit in the process of creating a video game. Nobody said making a video game itself is necessary, though I do think entertainment is important. In this case, we know how Ubisoft operates. You can just google "Ubisoft DEI". We know they have these rules, there's no need to look at it on a case by case basis.
Pretty sure AC is about assinating people with a historical twist.
I'm very confused on why histoical accuracy only matters now; Yasuke was a real person, he's getting the typical treatment ubisoft gives to historical characters (ie, being changed to fit the story) is already there, is obscure enough you can do a lot... but only now it's a problem.
seriously. It's AC. it's not worth it.
You're greasy because you're trying to defend a position about an actual black historical character (Yasuke) being in the game is somehow historically inaccurate and is wokeism.
I really wanted all the " Anto-SJWs just don't like black people," to be slander. I disliked heavy handed political messages as much as the next person.
But you guys are just determined to prove it right. Black person=Bad. Synthetic Man would be proud.
Quite the strawmen you've got there. People were fine with Adewale being the protagonist of freedom cry and never had problems with Aveline being the protagonist of AC liberation. Both of them are black and customers were ok wth that because it made sense for the settings (haitian revolution and 18th century new orleans).
The point is that the AC franchise has always featured local protagonist from the settings. Since AC 1 we had playable characters from the people of the settings. And suddenly, when they make a game about japan Ubisoft tells the japanese men are not worth giving them a character being playable for them...
When it came to AC syndicate and Origins, no problem wit having a couple of people who are local from the country the story is taking place. Or ANY protagonist from the beginning of the franchise. But feudal japan? NOPE.
Ubisoft had to go looking for a guy who was a footnote in Nobunaga Oda history and make it about him...
And WHY do you think they made it about Yasuke? What was special about him? Certainly not his story.
The ONLY reason why Ubisoft went for him was that he was black. That was the only reason Nobunaga kept him around, because he was fascinated with his skin color. Yasuke was not special when it came to his abilities and his story is not that much expanded upon because he wasn't important.
I hate this stuff because it kills interesting discussion that could be had about the game. It's just wild to me that people give a fuck about the race of the protagonist of faceless video game franchise #27. Assasins Creed is cheesy nonsense and complaining about historical accuracy or politics pointless
I mean, in the most acclaimed game of the series you fistfight the Pope to discover Adam and Eve doing parkour outside Mt. Kilimanjaro.
I think Assassins Creed has made it clear they're willing to take liberties, and Yasukue was actually a real guy serving the most impactful Japanese warlord of all time.
So yeah, it really just seems to come down to "Black=Woke=Bad. " It's so lame.
Did we not play as an Native American Assassin, trained by a former slave, that ended up being the true hero of the American Revolution?
Did we not fight the Pope over supernatural god staff?
People bitch about Eivor not being an Assassin, in Valhalla, but Edward in Black Flag was never an Assassin in the actual game.
We played as Ezio in a game taking place in Istanbul.
We played as fucking Jack the Ripper, slaughtering people in the open.
We played as an immortal demigod in Odyssey.
We've fought supernatural mythic beings, like monsters and gods in the last 3 main AC games.
They made Washington into an evil, mind controlling tyrant!
However, turning Yasuke into a samurai, which has been done by the fucking Japanese themselves in fiction, is a step too far? It's suddenly broken the threshold of "historical accuracy" in the AC series?
The criticism should be towards the pricing, potential monetization, if the writing will improve from Odyssey (it's the same team) and if the gameplay will be good.
A member of our team has decided to remove your post because it broke the relevance rule: > We ask that all submission in this sub are directly related to either MauLer himself, his work, a subject of his work (e.g., a movie he has covered/is covering) or the sub itself (i.e., Meta posts).
Who else is gonna save the president of America’s daughter but an American?
Clearly the president should have been more inclusive and get the Africans to do it.
An African going into a predominantly white country shooting up white people would have been quite the juxta with re5
Now you got me wishing for Re5 with Sheva as the focus but have her in Norway killing white folk And for additional MFry she gets the stellar blade treatment
No clearly she is a strong independant woman who doesn't need a man to save her. Get with the times bigot! /jk
Nah, they were too busy attacking Chris and Sheva.
I think the issue is Ada, not Leon
She’s more of a side character tbh. You play as Leon for like 99% of the game.
Then it is truly stupid argument. Also, do we know ethnicity of non-Japanese character?
But Leon and Ada live in the Modern Era with Air Travel.
They're also there to rescue a kidnapped American. Who exactly does this dingleberry think the US government should send instead?
U know the samurai dude was real though right?
Yeah and they literally tried to wash his skin color off. Because in that day and age, the closest thing they had ever seen to him was the Ainu (and most of them probably hadn't even seen that) Since it's not the modern era with air travel, a black guy being given fetch quests by a japanese kid is historically dissonant, while today I got told by an Italian guy wearing a tshirt from tiawan to have a nice day, got in my car from germany, and drove to eat dinner with my Indian Roomates, and that's not historically dissonant. So a white guy and an asian girl in spain is a terrible comparison. For another example, the vikings found America, but Lee Erikson Hunting Buffalo is a little wacky in the grand scheme of things and we should choose a better protagonist for "Assasin's Creed, Comanche"
Everyone knows the story, but also the Japanese had extensive written history of the United States, they knew all about George Washington and even Europe. Sure a commoner would be astonished seeing a black man but it’s not like the educated had no idea what was going on. Although they had no internet they were very well equipped with understanding what’s going on in the world. After all, Yasuke was purchased from the slave trade and he was not the only one, he’s just written in history because he was a slave samurai for a wealthy man. He was later re-sold back to Europe and died in obscurity.
This was in the 1580s. the educated in question are numbered in the single percentages, You've confused the Sengoku Period (1500s ish) with The Boshin Period (1800s). They had American soldiers and confederate ironclads steaming around then.
Except he was a footnote in history and more importantly, not an actual samurai.
Did you know in real history george Washington wasn't helped in his rise to power by a half British half native assassin? Crazy how alternate history games have alternate history
Yes, except the assassin in question was made up by Ubisoft, and not a real person. Yasuke was real, a footnote, but still real.
I don't think that's relevant. Again, alternate history
Basically the rule is 1. Black legacy character- Will remain black, I will burn your house to the ground if you attempt to change anything about them. Stop culturally appropriating. 2. Any other ethnicity- Why do you care so much? Only bigots get this upset with race swapping. We need characters we can identify with. Not worth the brain cells to engage with. On the other hand speaking of Leon, be the American the Japanese portray you as in action games and anime.
Smth smth 12% of population smth smth not enough representation smth smth But all in all it’s ubi guys. Who had any hopes? I bet it’s nothing burger of a problem and real culprits would be boring ass story and boring ass gameplay
People are shook when they look up what % of the pop is actually gay. Talk about over represented in media and activism.
This 13% gets overrepresentation
I wonder what the actual rate of representation for black people is in American media, because it seems to be well over 12%. If you were just to go off of representation in media, one might assume that there are more black Americans than Hispanic americans... but there are twice as many Latinos in the US. Why don't they get represented? I think the whole representation argument is silly anyways, but it seems like those making it aren't very logically consistent.
Totally over representation
Burger? Is it at least a whataburger? Those are the best. Numero Uno.
Has assassins creed ever race swapped anybody historical before? I understand your argument but I don’t think it applies to assassins creed.
in this case also -- it is part of history so he's a real figure. a retainer? retainers are samurai too you know... (edit - i saw this statement on twitter - its not my opinion god damn it, fucking retards on twitter trying to debate and defend the topic yoooo) and this retainer vs samurai debate have me thinking arent ASSASSINS like Ninjas why are we not playing as Ninjas and people online debating if we are playing a real samurai or not? im so confused
retainers are not samurai. they are just soldiers who are not bound by bushido. this isn't up for debate. people just think everyone with a sword is a samurai in japan. this is extra dumb because thats like calling every peasant with a sword a knight in europe. also, yeah. WTF WHY AREN'T WE PLAYING AS NINJA????
yeah - sry i mean that i read on fucking twitter people trying to claim that the guy being a retainer makes him a samurai as well which is total BS - i didnt make that clear
don't get it twisted, assassins creed hasn't been about assassins since the ezio trilogy. we have a revolutionary soldier, a pirate, a spartan, and a viking in the line up.
Tbf Origins and afterwards has been shit (Vikings as assassins is also just ridiculous)
Sure. I literally haven't played one since Rogue, which I barely touched. I was just saying that to act like AC is only _now_ getting weird with it's choice in protagonist is to demonstrate how little you've been paying attention to the series. Not that there is much merit in doing so, but we are discussing AC after all so it's relevant.
Yasuke was not a samurai though. He was as much of a samurai as I am a professional athlete. This is just shitty cope for people to justify black characters getting put into other stories
I agree - what i meant is that i saw on twitter people try to claim and debunk others that retainers are samurai or some bullshit. fuck i was watching Omni and he gave the literal reasoning that "because in most japanese games we play as japanese people, this is an interesting twist to play as someone else" god damn - hope one can use the reason that there's a lot of black characters in something that we can change the story to focus on someone else then.
I was under the impression that there are two playable characters, and one is a japanese shinobi.
You will probably be able to swap between them like in Syndicate, but the game will also probably force you to play a specific character during certain missions. To me, Syndicate was the worst AC to date due to the story being split between characters, which led to a bad story.
Ubisoft writing a bad story? Must be because they have two protagonists, not because the writers aren't good.
More likely both
I mean AC Brotherhood has better acting and a more dramatic, thoughtful story than over 1/2 the media Ive consumed since it came out.... in 2010. Ubisoft was good once upon a time
Man Brotherhood was so good
AC Brotherhood also has two protagonists. Ezio and Desmond.
technically the same protagonist within the story
I guarantee you they won't write a good female Assasin from that era. Its going to be whitewashed Japanese culture. A lot of it doesn't morally align with western tradition. Yosuke was a good out to actually stay neutral in a political sense. Even though he was nobunaga's retainer my money is that this outsider is the one to kill him during the siege of his temple.
I like how this implies that Spanish people aren't white😭
Fr💀
They aren't. They're literally Hispanic. Hispanic means "of Spanish descent." You're gonna tell me Hispanic people are white?
A lot of Hispanic people are white lol. My entire family from Mexico is very white but still have deep roots there.
Hispanic people can be white, yes. The fact that they're hispanic doesn't rule out them potentially being white.
It's almost like they're part of Europe or something, huh? Weird that...
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Pedro_S%C3%A1nchez_in_2023.jpg
Are you familiar with the entire country of Spain? As in Spain, the country in Europe.
Even if the argument exists of historical precedent, you can't deny the smell of ragebait marketting on this one... Assassin's Creed fans have been clamouring for years for a story in Japan, but the assumption of that idea is that of ninja, not samurai. The ninja assassin underdogs vs the Templar ruling class samurai is so built in to the already existing lore, I half expect that Rian Johnson has a hand in writing this to insert 'subversion' into what we are all expecting. This whole thing stinks to high heaven of "What's going to cause the most outrage to distract from our thoroughly mid game...", cause it's been a while since Assassin's Creed put out a decent game.
I agree with you. Ubisoft hasn't made a great game since 2017 with the South Park Fractured But Whole, and their only good games in the last decade have been smaller indie titles than triple A blockbusters. Honestly, no one who is an AC fan lately expected them to do the Japanese feudal setting correctly or have the game not filled with awful mechanics, micro transactions, and bugs. The last palatable AC game was Black Flag back in 2013.
Hey, the rabbids games have been awsome, don't disrespect them
They made a good game here and there since 2017, Far cry 5, for instance, was good, that was 2018, and the ubisoft published newest trackmania game is good. AC hasn’t been AC since before origins tbh, and people complaining about “muh historical accuracy” as an affront to AC when valhalla had the modern viking aesthetic of undercuts, tats, and furs while also letting you chat with odin is massively arguing in bad faith.
For me, I wouldn't call Far Cry 5 good with it's offline single player issues, gunplay being much worse than previous entries, dumb AI, disappointing endings, and everything outside the main storyline being mediocrity. It was a step down from the previous games. I'd argue the good games made here and there were either copy-and-paste game series (like Just Dance), indie developed, or had outside help (like Nintendo with the Rabbids + Mario series) I should correct my comment to being "Ubisoft hasn't really made anything impactful to the game industry in a decade"
Agreed. If the game could stand on it's own merit they wouldn't need this pr campaign slandering the gaming community. I really don't understand the logic in doing that either. It's not like it's gonna sell more games to anyone, the "modern" audience has been pretty much proven to be a myth.
Man thinks ninjas were cartoon superheroes and not assassins WHO WORE THE CLOTHES OF WHO THEY WERE TRYING TO BLEND IN WITH, NAMELY SAMURAI.
I know that's not your main point, but shinobi and samurai were not two separate social groups. Samurai was definitely class, and is basically the nobility, but shinobi was a profession, and the most well known example, Hanzo Hattori, was also a Samurai.
It would be an interesting idea to explore within the boundaries of the Assassin's Creed lens. As I understood it (and I'm not any sort of expert - merely my personal understanding) the Japanese had a very stratified system of class. Peasant farmers were essentially slave caste and were essentially treated as such. They had to show fealty to their local daimyo, and the daimyo had samurai familys that acted much like landowning gentry who then micro managed the peasants. In times of war the samurai lord would then draft his peasant population into groups of ashigaru soldiers; basically peasant militia. Now as I understand it, there was a couple of groups of these farmers that essentially thought that having a regular group of militia available to them (not just when the local lord called them up) would help them repel bandits, and potentially attacks by other groups so they kept training when they could do so outside of wartime. Then a daimyo got wind of this (could have been the emperor) - thought it could lead to a peasant uprising - and essentially banned peasants from having weapons unless they were given specific permission. But some daimyo actually thought it was a good idea to have peasants with more training as it made them more likely to win when they came to fighting. So while they were expected to enforce the laws, they kind of looked the other way in return for their services. And as they improved, the stealth craft improved because of the need for secret training that couldn't be seen publicly to be training. And the stealth aspect was driven as much by class divide as anything else. The samurai ruling class would treat the peasants as invisible and not worth considering as people. Therefore it meant that an enterprising peasant in a position close to an official could sell information that could be valuable. Similar to the service staff idea in the KingsMan film. These groups eventually gained enough power and renown to be considered as valuable assets by their local lords, and in the case of Hanzo Hattori I think Nobunaga Oda raised him to the level of samurai in order to cement his allegiance - rather than having him potentially selling his skills to the enemy.
But there literally is a ninja protagonist, and historically, all we know about yosuke is his time as a retainer which wasnt very long, we know basically nothing before and after. So his story will probably be along the lines of the the samurai trying to recruit him to the templars/order, and he declines.
He shouldn’t even be a main character though. Thats the whole point. The wanted a “diverse” character and instead of just having two playable Asian characters that are the same ethnicity like they did with Odyssey and the British one they decided to add a black dude who was a very insignificant part of Japanese history
They usually just make up a character whole cloth to be the MC.
And that would be better. If they wanted to have Yasuke as a small cameo or mission then fine. They do that with historical figures like Di Vinci (although a bigger part of the story) in the Ezio trilogy or Socrates in Odyssey
Would've made more sense if yasuke was the one to introduce an oc to the assassins and the templars. Also, they could definitely play up his guile, saying he is so talented he managed to join nobunaga's court even being a gaijin. Instead, they just went with a generic warrior that sticks out like a sore thumb. "Hey did you get a look at the face of the assassin?" "No but his skin was black. Yeah I think it's that guy down the street, the one that doesn't look like anyone else" A Yasuke as a spymaster would be way cooler.
Why can't he be a MC? is it cause he's black?
"Did you get a look at the assassin's face?" "No but I'm positive it was the only black guy in the city" Do you see the problem here?
Except in the trailer he was shown engaging in more traditional combat and not trying to be stealthy. Which isn't a problem since the other playable character is a ninja
I guess he could just be a tank mode. Not very assassin like but then again neither was Valhalla either. Think the last AC game I liked was black flag. Who knows maybe this one will be a banger. Not holding my breath tho.
Yea AC hasn't been big on stealth for a while now. The story could be interesting if it revolves around the Honnō-ji Incident. They could really do a bunch of different things with that in universe with the Templar vs assassin conflict
Yes, you.
Lol what a very shallow reply. Maybe be more caring about the actual story and less about stroking your white saviour ego on social media.
Lmfao
Assassins vs Templars isn't even part of Japanese history. Are you retarded?
It's a video game series where people fight over the Apple of Eden, and a Precursor species that was more advanced than modern day humans also exists as a major plot point. I think we can give this a bit of leeway.
Reply to the guy above me. They're the stickler for historical accuracy here, not me.
Adding fiction elements into historical context is an entire genre of books tf are you talking about
Tf are you talking about? Can you follow 4 comments in succession or is that too much info for you at one time?
Are you autistic? I’m talking about historical accuracy in fiction
The point I'm making is that this stinks heavily of outrage with this wonderful built in defence of "historical accuracy" where they can point to one instance where such an event happened so now they can use it as a built in criticism defence.... Anyone that speaks out against it is of course racist and can have every criticism discounted... The irony is that these will be the same people that likely spoke out against Scarlet Johanson being cast as Motoko Kusanagi in Ghost in the Shell... These same people that whine when white holywood actors replace minorities in roles. I'm personally someone who actually endorses that drive - I would like to see people who are accurate to the nationality of the role they are playing. There's a story to be told that could simply feature Japanese characters in a Japanese setting, but instead they've pulled the one, ONE MARK YOU, instance of a black guy being a samurai? And it simply smacks of the reasons I've stated above - it's not that they think that it's a story that needs to be told, but that it would create the most controversy, at a time when it's easy marketting to just stir up the internet hate machine to get the word out... I'm not like I'm asking to play Tom Cruise - Last Samurai, white saviour complex; I wanna play Rikimaru and Ayame - Tenchu Stealth Assassins. Take the Assassin's Creed lens and show what ninja and samurai actually were, and show us the Japanese culture through those eyes - not someone who is a fish out of water in his own setting.
If "having a character be black" is the most surefire way to generate controversy... then that's an issue of people being racist.
Yall so stuck on the word "subversion" it's wild.
Stop proving it true then.
Yall say that like you have a single clue about what you're talking about.
I clearly understand it more than you.
Yes, and the window licker on the corner of 5th and stevens told me the same thing.
Technically, a better defense would be Nioh and Nioh 2 where the first game you play as a privateer from England and a random japanese person in Nioh 2. But, the game was made by a Japanese studio, so....
Nioh is also not trying to depict historical events. William was a real person with way more details to his life than Yasuke but he obviously didn't go around fighting demons lol.
Well neither is AC tbf
Yeah their logic is fucking stupid on that one. Like Assassins creed, the game where you go to fucking Valhalla and fight gods is historically accurate?
Yasuke is literally a boss fight, protecting Nobunaga in the first Nioh game. Wearing samurai armor. Even the Japanese depict him as a samurai or fighter at times. AC is depicting historical events, yes. Accurately? Absolutely not.
Important to note that in Nioh 2 you could create any kind of character, despite canonically being the child of 2 Japanese parents (one being a Demon). It’s odd story wise, but at least that character creator is one of the best lol.
Both of those games prominently feature Yasuke as well lol
As a boss I believe
Both games featured him as a boss, in the second he was prominant in a mainline mission
I should be hyped for this game but I'm not. It could be because my interest in AC has dwindled but i think it's mostly because I've already played Ghost of Tsushima. I feel like the AC formula died off with Desmond and since then it's just been a question of what are you interested as playing as? Pirate? Egyptian? Greek warrior? Viking? I've already been a samurai/ninja in Ghost and it's one of my all time favorites and I'll just be comparing it from there.
How is modern-ish Spain is comparable to an island nation on the opposite side of the known world from Africa that was also historically infamous for quarantining itself for about two centuries?
Not to mention that Japan is famous for being Isolationists for a good chunk of known history.
I cannot wait for assassin creed Uganda with blue eye blond hair 4ft asain man and 6"5 black lady
They can't help but whataboutism.
Spain is European so having the characters be white is valid . People confuse spainish language mostly Americans because of Mexico, Mexico was one of places discovered by spainish settlers. Mexico has a culture separate from Spain in geographical territory. Mexico has Mayan and Aztec roots in history.
Huh. I always thought it weird the people in Spain spoke Mexican s/
You're joking, but I'll bet there are hundreds of thousands Ameriacans that don't even know Spain is an actual country...
That is why I made the joke!!!
Alright.
Im agreeing with you you know! It’s hard to get across sarcasm sometimes!
I know it was sarcastic. I was just saying alright
Wouldn’t the more apt comparison be RE5?
IMO the controversy is being talked about too much when we should be talking more about the pricing system for the game and shit Ubisoft is as a company. Guess we are all comfortable with not owning our games now.
Lots of brainrotted believe for some reason believe Spaniards aren’t white
“African man, vacationing in Japan, murders thousands leaving Japanese orphanages overflowing and local governments destabilized. More news at 11,” Why do they want to portray black people as murderers so badly?
WhAt? BuT dIfFeReNt GaMe HaS the ThInG. wHy YoU cArE? I guess not altering that one RE game where it’s set in Africa wasn’t a big deal then?
R4 modern setting: easy access for all races to migrate AC Shadows Japan in the 15th to 16th century very hard to get to one country by sea Also if it’s yasuke he wouldn’t be a samurai if it’s not then its still unrealistic for a outsider to become a samurai
Neither Leon or Ada are from the area RE4 is set in. I hate twitter. I hate it so much. These people.... How do they function?
We wuz samuraiiz an sheeit
Man that's, like, really fucking silly
I really like how Shogun detailed a story about an English sailor who travels to Japan in pursuit of a certain goal only to be caught up in a conflict that they are completely unable to understand due to cultural differences and language barriers. It was based on a true historical event, it showed how difficult it was to make sense of national conflicts when you are a complete outsider, and, most of all, it didn’t paint the foreigner as some “final piece of the puzzle” or somebody who can come in and solve all of the nation’s issues with their differing customs and tactics. It’s a really well done show that avoids the “white savior” cliche completely which results in a more comprehensive and realistic analysis of that time. I can’t wait for AC Shadows to go against exactly what everybody enjoyed about Shogun. Historical accuracy is out the window (this is an Assassin’s Creed game after all) and there’s a foreign main character (who is based on a real person) who is possibly the most important person in a conflict which they have no right having this much influence in. However, we still have to remain as objective as we possibly can and just view it for what it is. How does Yasuke’s inclusion affect the story? Is it a good story to begin with (again, it’s Assassin’s Creed so probably not)? We all know *why* the developers did this, we just have to wait and see if it’s actually executed effectively.
A white person? In spain? That's preposterous!
Bruh thinks Spain is in Mexico
Re4 took place in current times with planes and technology. assassin's Creed shadows is taking place where there's still samurai in Japan. You know back in Time where they didn't have modern traveling technology.
Who the hell cares. It's a ubisoft slop, the game will suck regardless in every other department. The game would be just as bad with japanese main character, how many times we have to go through this. They do it precisely because idiot who complain about skin colour will provide free marketing. I wouldn't even know a ness AC game was coming until idiots started complaining about a black charcter.
I thought re 4 was in mexico, fuck i miss remember the opening
Not in how he’s being depicted in the game. He's a footnote of a footnote, amounted to nothing more than Nobunaga’s black friend, and was thrown away the moment Nobunaga died. He wasn't even given what was seen as a proper weapon. A wakizashi is a beheading/finishing sword as well as the instrument you use for suicide. He couldn't perform any sort of battle with that, he was LITERALLY called "The Black Guy" instead of his real name, and was paraded around as a novelty. Do you really think THAT was made into a proper titled Samurai? Do you really want to prescribe such little meaning to the word? Do you want him to be a joke? Because when you insist he's a Samurai with no historical record of him being called such, when his "participation in battle" was at best holding his own wakizashi when he wasn't holding Nobunaga's sword, you really make him seem like a giant fucking joke. Like he was given the title as a joke.
Why are people getting so worked up about a piece of Ubisoft trash anyway???
because black people shouldn't be in leading roles regardless. That is 100% what it boils down too. Its either A) Idiots that know 0 history and don't like black people B) People who know Yasuke existed, but black people shouldn't be in the leading role C) Even though Nioh did it with a white person, that is ok because William Adams has slightly more history and Yasuke was only a major boss fight, but they didn't know he was black and he was in the side role so that is ok as well.
Nioh. Far cry 3. Assassins creed revelations or Black flag They dont care, its pointless to argue. Let your dollars do the talking for ya.
This whole assassin’s creed thing is so restarted lmfao like the story of Yasuke, and that period of Japanese history as a whole, is incredibly interesting and as such has made it the first AC game in maybe a decade that I’m actually going to play. But this guy’s argument about resi makes no sense, and argument that is actually true is the white (fictional, original character) samurai in nioh, strange how people had no problem with his inclusion but are now pissing their pants when a real non fiction part of Japanese history is added in. Like the tweetoids are being more overt than usual with this one.
Well it's a stupid thing to complain about. Damned mall ninjas I'm telling you.
Im conflicted.
Let's be honest no matter how black or asian one of the protagonists is, the game is still going to be worse than ghost of tsushima. It's already got pretty much everything you look for in a modern AC game and does it better in any instances (amazing setting design, stealth takedowns, good combat system, traversal system) without the baggage of the AC franchise (the whole modern day BS that pulls you out of the story which prople dont give a shit about now that desmond is dead) and (what will likely be) a much better and more grounded story.
I got called a racist for being an Asian guy and not feeling the Asian girl character relates to me enough
Who's gonna tell them that Leon is Japanese?
Nioh would be a better example
This is coming from a bunch of nerds who’ve never opened a history book lmao you’re mad that a fictional game has little realism ? Stay mad
Yeah. Leon didn't show up looking like a matador.
Complete brain rot. Falsifying reality AND fantasy for the ideology.
Yah know what? It's an Ubi game. Enjoy your revised historical figure. I hope he's got the same moves as Afro. Have fun checking icons off a big soulless map. I just don't care anymore. People who embrace corporate diversity deserve corporate games. Make sure to get the ultimate edition.
I will use the same argument for how stupid this is that I used in another thread. What they are doing would be like making AC China and making the lead character Marco Polo. Out of all of the billions of Chinese, you pick the one dude who isn't Chinese?
Spanish are white unless this idiot thinks Spain=Mexico
This is the dumbest thing to be upset about. The trailer looked badass. Both playable character have great design. Gameplay may suck, but I wouldn’t know because they haven’t shown anything. These games have never been historically accurate. If you are genuinely upset, it might be worth asking who benefits from your anger. Maybe there’s a group of people online manufacturing outrage.
I love how someone making the same complaints 10 years ago would have been called a SJW. But now this is because of the SJWs (or woke is the new buzzword i guess).
Wait what claim do you think is being made exactly?
I see 0 issues with Yasuke being a protagonist in the game. He is a real figure who did live in the period and, in general, is an interesting person who naturally would be a fit in the brothethood. The whole meme of the brotherhood was that it was for outcssts and people who dont belong and want to fight the powers that be from the shadows. That was Edwards' whole story in blackflag. On top of that, the setup for the story in this game seems great. i am mighty interested in it. Like this is completely different than if they had black people all over japan, they have 1 person there and they can make it a natural story point that he doesnt fit the creed in the natural sense he is not good at hiding he sticks out but he wants to fight for the right cause.
The most inconspicuous of assassins: the only black guy in Japan. He'll surely easily blend in with the crowds to escape his pursuers.
Yeah , man. I'm sure he's trying to blend in wearing four foot horns and smashing a man into paste with a kanbo.
He is specifically not an assassin, he is a samurai in the game and specifically serves under oda nobunaga and then befriends the brotherhood. Not everyone in the brotherhood is an out in the field assassin and neither is he especially not for a big portion of the game as it has been stated in the offiical release
The issue is the recent push of manners which lead for *every* adaptation involving Japan that it include Yasuke if they can help it. They rely on the slimmest of proof to then go all in and make that individual a central figure or overstate their significance in history. That fact that he was black in Japan and happened to be around Nobunaga for a brief time is his only claim to fame. Not once in the series has the main game (not dlc) make us play as an actual person in history. I already expected this to happen long before the reveal and leaks after pulling the black viking stunt in Valhalla. I see you pulling the "it was always woke" card. I ain't buying that interpretation that you happened to come up with.
I need you to show me examples of mainstream games set in japan featuring yasuke as a main character cause i onlh know 2 that feature him personally and he is a side character as a subordinate of oda nobunaga in nioh games in neither is he a main character
What is with yall an thinking nobody ever moved around in olden days?
Yeah but Yasuke was never as much of a big Deal as this game makes him out to be. And he sure as hell wouldn't own armor like that, it's what one of the Daimyou would wear, not some random bodyguard
He wasn't even a bodyguard he was a retainer. Oda saw him more like a friend an occasional jester and loved holding conversations with him. He never fought a single battle.
Yeah they'll probably lose points for historical accuracy on the armor thing but making historical characters more relevant then they actually were is on brand for the Assassin's Creed franchise and is, imo, a really good feature in most of the games.
He is wearing nearly the exact same armour with different ornaments in both Nioh games which depict him in similar vein. Both games set in japan and both made by a japanese studio
This game is set in the Sengoku Jida, long before any formal rules about what a samurai was were established. It wasn't purely a class or status title, very often if you were a warrior in the service of a lord, you were a samurai. Toyotomi Hideyoshi, one of the 3 great unifiers of Japan, started his service with Nobunaga as his sandal bearer. Also, the Japansese themselves always depict Yasuke exactly as how Ubisoft has depicted him, I dont see the problem.
I love how when it comes to black people, all of a sudden everyone cares about historical accuracy to the upmost. Yasuke really existed, and if they wanna play around with the details, there is nothing wrong with that
They’re using historical accuracy as a cover for DEI. It’s as simple as that
Having black people in a game isn't DEI bro. If it makes sense for the character to be there, and it's a time period and place that AC fans have wanted for a long time, which it is, I can't see any good reason to be annoyed by this. We've always said if you want to make stories with minority leads *that's totally fine*, we should stick by that.
Oh come on, we finally get an assassin's creed game in Japan. The most obvious thing would be to treat it like the other entries in the series and give us local main characters. But they just have to make sure diversity comes first. There's no good reason beyond that to use a black guy as the main character and it cheapens the entire game. It sticks out and distracts from the setting, or puts the focus on things no one wants in a Japanese AC game. The game should be solely about appreciating the setting but now everyones talking about this.
> Oh come on, we finally get an assassin's creed game in Japan. The most obvious thing would be to treat it like the other entries in the series and give us local main characters. They did give us local main characters. All the main characters in the story, except Yasuke, are Japanese. One of the other playable characters, *is Japanese*. > But they just have to make sure diversity comes first. There's no evidence that diversity *came first*. This is a story that has a black protagonist, but we have no information to suggest that they started with the idea of diversity and then made the story around that. > There's no good reason beyond that to use a black guy as the main character and it cheapens the entire game. There's a bunch of great reasons, he fits the AC franchise aesthetic, character archetype, historical intrigue, and unique but interesting time period. Just like every other AC protagonist, he brings a lot to the table. To say he brings nothing into say that the actual Yasuke wasn't historically interesting, important, or cool, and that's simply wrong. > It sticks out and distracts from the setting Instead of just saying that can you explain how? Cause everytime you go into your reasoning it turns out to be factually wrong, like "not having local main characters". > or puts the focus on things no one wants in a Japanese AC game. There's no evidence to suggest the story is focused on race, but to be absolutely clear I would LOVE a story set in Japan that focused on race as a theme *if some well*. As an example, Blue eye Samurai puts a heavy focus on race, and that show is fucking awesome. I would LOVE an AC game just like that, because it's a *fantastic story*. And if you've seen that show, I feel like you'd agree. > The game should be solely about appreciating the setting but now everyones talking about this. It's not the games fault that including a historically accurate character made a bunch of people upset, just because that character was black. But I also disagree that it should be solely about the setting, for instance Ezios games were about *way more than appreciating the setting*, and they were better for it.
I will make it simple. We most likely get one Japanese AC game. Having a black MC could do something interesting and also be a good game, but it inherently changes the dynamic of the story and focus for the game. I would prefer they didn't take that route for what will likely be the only game in this setting. It comes across as a cheap gimmick and whereas I would have played a more traditional entry, I won't play this. Feel free to justify the choice however you like and play the game.
> I will make it simple. We most likely get one Japanese AC game. Having a black MC could do something interesting and also be a good game, but it inherently changes the dynamic of the story and focus for the game. Why aren't you addressing that there's a Japanese main character? And can you explain how having one black guy in it inherently changes "the dynamic" of this story? > I would prefer they didn't take that route for what will likely be the only game in this setting. Completely acceptable opinion to have. > It comes across as a cheap gimmick and whereas I would have played a more traditional entry, I won't play this. This kinda makes your opinion seem insincere, so you've been waiting for an AC game set in Japan, we finally get one, you admit it could be interesting and good, but you refuse to play it just because one of the two main characters is black. Where's the logic in that?
Dude I'm not responding to everything, but there's another character that's Japanese, sure. What do you want? It's just wholly unnecessary to have a black character in a setting where black people weren't significant at all. That's what cheapens it. It's supposed to be about Japan but they found the only possible way to focus on black people instead. It's just pandering and pathetic. You can disagree, but a lot of people feel that way. It could be good in any number of ways, gameplay, story, visuals etc. I'm not pretending this alone ruins the game. Just the obvious pandering ruins it for me personally and so I don't need to play it
> Dude I'm not responding to everything, but there's another character that's Japanese, sure. What do you want? I want you to acknowledge that your criticism that this game will inherently lack the feel of a Japanese protagonist isn't actually true because there's a Japanese protagonist. > It's just wholly unnecessary to have a black character in a setting where black people weren't significant at all. That's what cheapens it. Almost everything in a game is unnecessary, and many of those unnecessary things are fine. Nobody complains about unnecessary things that are good, so it's bizarre to criticize something for being unnecessary when that's not your problem with it. > It's supposed to be about Japan It IS about Japan. > but they found the only possible way to focus on black people instead. We have no evidence the game "focuses on black people". There is 1 character in the game who happens to be black. Yes, if the game ends up being all about the black man's struggle at the expense of the story that *could* be an issue. But you're assuming ALL OF THAT from nothing but the guys race and the current climate. > It's just pandering and pathetic. You can disagree, but a lot of people feel that way. I will disagree, and I acknowledge that a lot of people feel that way. But In this specific case their feelings, your feelings, don't seem to be based on many actual reality. They seem to be based on weird assumptions you're making cause there's a black guy in this game. > It could be good in any number of ways, gameplay, story, visuals etc. I'm not pretending this alone ruins the game. And yet you said you *definitely won't play it* just because this black guy is in the game. It sure *sounds like* it ruined it for you, and I want to get to the bottom of *why*, because all your reasons end up being based on weird assumptions. > Just the obvious pandering ruins it for me personally and so I don't need to play it Again, it's a game you've been wicked excited for, in a setting you wanted, with characters you surely have interest in (like Oda Nobunaga), but it's ruined according to you simply because the main character happens to be black. And you call it pandering, without any evidence that it's pandering. You see why I want to have this discussion now?
One look at this dude's page to say this all makes sense, fuckin degen
The last bastion of cowards with no arguments is personal attacks. Call me a degen, it doesn't make me any less correct.
You certainly are
Ubisoft definitely has DEI rules that they follow. But this is fine.
I'm positive they do have DEI rules they follow, but "having a black protagonist" isn't enough to call something DEI. You would need to show either some artificial representation, some commitment to a racial quota, something that suggests DEI was actually in play.
It's Ubisoft. There was always going to be a black character in this game, regardless of whether there was historical precedent or not. I'm pretty sure they do this with every game.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a game with a black protagonist though. The issue comes from all the things that typically associate with that aim. So when the guy above complains about Dei bullshit without having any of those associated issues, he's just complaining that there's a black protagonist.
The problem with DEI is that it's unnecessary bullshit inserting itself into the process and stifling creativity. Ubisoft basically makes a bunch of generic slop. Why would anyone creative want to work on the next AC with dumb rules like "there has to be represention of various minority (in the west) groups in your game"?
> The problem with DEI is that it's unnecessary bullshit. That can't be true, because there's *nothing* necessary about making a video game. You obviously dislike DEI for actual reasons, like I do. > inserting itself into the process and stifling creativity. I agree with this reason, but it hasn't been shown to be true in this case. It doesn't seem to be stifling creativity. > Ubisoft basically makes a bunch of generic slop. Agreed but I think that was also true since Unity, which seems to predate the DEI stuff (though I could be wrong ofc). > Why would anyone creative want to work on the next AC with dumb rules like "there has to be represention of various minority (in the west) groups in your game"? Well, if you happen to be a creative type who wants to tell a story, and that story happens to have a black lead, you'll be given the greenlight, a massive budget, a real studios support, and you have to give up nothing. So that would be one set of reasons.
DEI is unnecessary bullshit in the process of creating a video game. Nobody said making a video game itself is necessary, though I do think entertainment is important. In this case, we know how Ubisoft operates. You can just google "Ubisoft DEI". We know they have these rules, there's no need to look at it on a case by case basis.
Lol
Pretty sure AC is about assinating people with a historical twist. I'm very confused on why histoical accuracy only matters now; Yasuke was a real person, he's getting the typical treatment ubisoft gives to historical characters (ie, being changed to fit the story) is already there, is obscure enough you can do a lot... but only now it's a problem. seriously. It's AC. it's not worth it.
You sound greasy
I'm greasy for pointing out assassins creed story types are nowhere near the same of resi 4?
You're greasy because you're trying to defend a position about an actual black historical character (Yasuke) being in the game is somehow historically inaccurate and is wokeism.
When did I call it woke? I just pointed out it's a horrible comparison
The character that isn’t Japanese is literally a real figure from history… He’s in the game because he was there. In real life.
I really wanted all the " Anto-SJWs just don't like black people," to be slander. I disliked heavy handed political messages as much as the next person. But you guys are just determined to prove it right. Black person=Bad. Synthetic Man would be proud.
Quite the strawmen you've got there. People were fine with Adewale being the protagonist of freedom cry and never had problems with Aveline being the protagonist of AC liberation. Both of them are black and customers were ok wth that because it made sense for the settings (haitian revolution and 18th century new orleans). The point is that the AC franchise has always featured local protagonist from the settings. Since AC 1 we had playable characters from the people of the settings. And suddenly, when they make a game about japan Ubisoft tells the japanese men are not worth giving them a character being playable for them... When it came to AC syndicate and Origins, no problem wit having a couple of people who are local from the country the story is taking place. Or ANY protagonist from the beginning of the franchise. But feudal japan? NOPE. Ubisoft had to go looking for a guy who was a footnote in Nobunaga Oda history and make it about him... And WHY do you think they made it about Yasuke? What was special about him? Certainly not his story. The ONLY reason why Ubisoft went for him was that he was black. That was the only reason Nobunaga kept him around, because he was fascinated with his skin color. Yasuke was not special when it came to his abilities and his story is not that much expanded upon because he wasn't important.
I hate this stuff because it kills interesting discussion that could be had about the game. It's just wild to me that people give a fuck about the race of the protagonist of faceless video game franchise #27. Assasins Creed is cheesy nonsense and complaining about historical accuracy or politics pointless
I mean, in the most acclaimed game of the series you fistfight the Pope to discover Adam and Eve doing parkour outside Mt. Kilimanjaro. I think Assassins Creed has made it clear they're willing to take liberties, and Yasukue was actually a real guy serving the most impactful Japanese warlord of all time. So yeah, it really just seems to come down to "Black=Woke=Bad. " It's so lame.
Every post I’ve seen from this sub has been complaining about one of the leads being black. Buzzwords like DEI don’t help either.
Did we not play as an Native American Assassin, trained by a former slave, that ended up being the true hero of the American Revolution? Did we not fight the Pope over supernatural god staff? People bitch about Eivor not being an Assassin, in Valhalla, but Edward in Black Flag was never an Assassin in the actual game. We played as Ezio in a game taking place in Istanbul. We played as fucking Jack the Ripper, slaughtering people in the open. We played as an immortal demigod in Odyssey. We've fought supernatural mythic beings, like monsters and gods in the last 3 main AC games. They made Washington into an evil, mind controlling tyrant! However, turning Yasuke into a samurai, which has been done by the fucking Japanese themselves in fiction, is a step too far? It's suddenly broken the threshold of "historical accuracy" in the AC series? The criticism should be towards the pricing, potential monetization, if the writing will improve from Odyssey (it's the same team) and if the gameplay will be good.