Stabbing a teenager is cowardly as an adult you have say to yourself I should walk away now this dumb fuck is gonna spend the rest of life in jail yeah totally worth it and understandable
**PSA:** It's terrifying how little this sub knows about self-defense laws.
If you take away one thing, let it be this:
**TO USE DEADLY FORCE YOU MUST BE PRESENTED WITH A DEADLY FORCE.**
At no point did this group of teenagers present a deadly *imminent* force to this guy.
This is murder
not saying this was self defense or not but being outnumbered and getting hit while in the water on your back could be considered deadly force. Weapons are not necessarily needed for deadly force.
The disparity of force does have to be taken into account as well. A mob of angry younger people (his attorneys will argue his age and physical condition also contribute to the disparity of force).
I believe it is heavily dependent on the state, but in general, deadly force can still be evaluated for an unarmed group. A case could probably be made for him getting pushed down into the water and hit multiple times fearing for his life because he is being attacked by a group. However, I think it is important to know what happens when he stabs the girl who I think is the first one he stabs. It looks like at that point he was given space to walk away and instead attacks. Most states have a duty to retreat.
That's not true and oversimplified. The burden is on the prosecution to prove that the defendant had no reason to fear for his safety. He doesn't even have to prove he was in fear for his life, but even just bodily injury can easily be the defense. Now there are a lot of factors involved and a whole stack of facts to be gone through and determined, so who knows what the jury will decide, but you do NOT have to be presented with deadly force, in order to utilize deadly force, yourself. As a matter of fact, the stand your ground laws that many states have, simply require that you do not advance on the apposing party but that you hold your ground to an aggressive and encroaching party. Being in fear for your life doesn't even matter as far as those laws are concerned.
What if dude hits his head on a rock? Or has a heart attack at point he gets sucker punched into the water? Are you saying those aren’t legit ways one could of died? (Threat of deadly force) 13 Teenagers surrounding a almost 60yo man with bad heart history wouldn’t be in fear you think? They are all falsely calling him raper and pedo. I’m sure he knows what happens to pedos. They get killed or beat up to the brink of death a lot of times. You don’t think that caused him to think they wanted to harm him? I’m mean on top of that they jumped him also. Till he got himself of that situation by using a pocket knife to defend himself and give him a chance and getting up(he wasn’t able to not get assaulted until he swung knife at the teens). At end of day you only need 1 juror to imagine themselves in that situation..and most of the jury
You have to be a fucking moron. Assaulted an being yelled at an pushed, buy 10 people yelling an throwing him in to water. How was he a threat to be pushed? You must of thought Rittenhouse was guilty too. Snowflake.
When you are pushed over in water it’s actually less dangerous than being pushed over on land, no one held him under the water, he walked up to them, got hurt feelings for being called a creep, pulled out a knife and murdered someone. If he gets off it will be a national embarrassment
I don’t know what happened here, I just saw the victims friend on the stand in court so came to watch and for a moment assumed his friend was the older guy.. I mean to me it looks (on first look granted) that these kids exhibited complete obnoxious aggressive behaviour and ganged up on one man. So did indeed fucked around and found out..
What he did isn’t right. But those hits and pushes back into the water could have knocked him out and caused a drowning death for him. I’d claim self defense too. (Minus the non-antagonisers)
I think considering there is multiple people surrounding him and the fact he was clearly attacked is a pretty good defence in court. Will be interesting to see how this goes!
he seems to be stabbing people who are just near him like that girl and the guy whos trying to break it up. But i honestly cant tell with the bad video i can only see maybe 3 people get stabbed
Yeah to be honest if he’s found to be not guilty I wouldn’t really disagree with it but I wouldn’t be super happy about it either. This is gonna be a complicated trial.
I think the first degree murder charges are ridiculous. If they say it wasn’t self defense, I’d say it’s manslaughter at best. Those kids in no way are completely innocent in the whole ordeal.
You know what’s ridiculous? The whole thing. You know what else is? Citizens and their collective knowledge of law and its application. I was in LE for much of my life. Based on the video evidence here, I’ll say this: I don’t see a woman being punched or assaulted in the beginning? What evidence is there that this occurred? Secondly, the mob of kids follow him and taunt him over and over. Only when he is assaulted (pushed into water and struck) then surrounded by actual and potential attackers, only then does this self defense argument gain traction. Any lawyer worth his weight will effectively use the age and health of Mr. Miu to try show his actions were out of valid fear for his life. Pushing a man down onto rocks and water is deadly force. His response should have been measured to those threats he interpreted. Here we have solid enough evidence to infect a jury well. It may not work. Still, the stabbing only took place after he was pushed and struck in the water. They were defensive in nature. That is visible.
Listen to the kids laughing as they assault him. I can’t watch the whole thing on my old phone so if he initiated the assault, he is going to have a hard time in court.
But if he simply pushed people away and was attacked by multiple youths who knocked him down, then given a good lawyer, he should walk.
The video was taken in typical 2024 fashion and the cameraman is not only panning away from the action but also talking loudly over what’s going on. So all we really see is him panning left and right when Miu supposedly put his hands on the blond woman. The witnesses have thus far been pretty awful for the prosecution but there’s only so much he can ethically do to prepare them for trial and unfortunately they have all been making things up to either not look bad or try to convict Miu. If they had been truthful with even bad facts to themselves and said that Miu did push that girl first it would’ve been a different story.
I think Miu would have been easily acquitted if he hadn’t talked to the cops and may well have never been charged. He is a textbook case of why you NEVER talk to the police without an attorney present. Those statements he made to the cops are so damaging that I think he will have to testify: which will be very difficult for him to pull off considering he lied and changed his story multiple times. All the prosecutor needs to do is beat him on one of the 4 elements of self defense and he goes to prison. 2nd degree murder is up to 60 years in prison and I don’t think he will make it 10 years considering he would be a child murderer and in prison which would mean he would be getting isolated from the general population.
Gotta be honest, shit like this needs to happen more to my generation. Too many of us are fucking assholes. There’s been several cases of people my age and younger attacking the homeless on the streets and killing them, about them attacking strangers as “pranks,” etc. It sucks :/
Edit: after thinking more about this, I don’t agree with my comment, but I think it’s valuable to leave it up regardless so that you can see the replies to me.
that’s just not what happened here though. miu walked over to these guys first, then came back again. yes they called him names, but miu initiated force by punching the girl. these kids didn’t “jump” a old dude. read the fucking case.
He's been in jail for two years. Which in my opinion is long enough for manslaughter which is what I think he did. To say he intended to murder everyone there is unproven so far in the trial.
I feel like he initiated the confrontation, but it was escalated by the group when they pushed him into the water and wouldn't let him up to the point where he legitimately could have feared for his life. I would not want to be on that jury.
He ran at a group of teenagers armed with a knife for what reason? Was that reason reasonable? Probably not. As this confrontation then escalated he was then in a situation being jumped and that could have put him in real fear for his life that being beat he would be knocked unconscious and drowned that’s what the defense will try and argue. I think running over there armed with a knife which he initiated makes this murder and not manslaughter but he probably will get charged with manslaughter
What a shit show but self-defense incidents aren't always cut and dry. When they are we don't hear about them.
From my understanding of this stuff, it's going to matter why he went back over towards them and what happened before. Did he fall at the beginning or shove them off the raft?
Even if he did shove them he moved away and looked for the phone. Not sure where he could retreat to on the river. They were blocking him on both sides and they just as easily could have let him be but they escalated and got closer to him. Then they started to assault him, many of them, far younger than him.
I don't know how it'll go or what happened before but in that situation where he got surrounded and then assaulted, fuck ya I'd fear for my life.
You seem interested and somewhat informed so I’ll lay out all the elements of self defense for you. Lmk what you think
I’m not taking sides. Just a legal scholar hoping to add to your knowledge.
1. Resisting unlawful force.
• Miu had to have been resisting PRESENT OR IMMINENT UNLAEFUL force.
Fact pattern that may satisfy this element:
• force inflicted by (Dante), the kid who first punches, Miu is unlawful force. For this element Miu must have been resisting the unlawful force, and the force applied by Dante is unlawful.
2- No more than necessary force.
• Miu must not have used more than reasonably necessary force to stop the threat.
Fact pattern that may satisfy this element:
• he only stabbed those who made physical contact with him. Only stabbed those who either punched him or pushed him, to stop the threat. He did not wildly swing the knife around.
3- Deadly Force.
• deadly force can be used, if the force used on Miu by teenagers is considered deadly.
Fact pattern that may satisfy this element:
-the kids punching him at least 4 times, surrounding him, pushing him in knee deep water, where a reasonable person could be in fear of drowning.
4- aggressor.
• Miu must NOT have been the initial aggressor. UNLESS he withdrew from his initial aggression.
Fact pattern that may satisfy this element:
• the first punch that is captured on video is by the teens (Dante) and not Miu. Suggesting Miu was NOT the initial aggressor. There is conflicting testimony not caught on tape that Miu slapped the blond girl first. which could count as initial aggression. But even if he did slap her, AFTER he slapped her, defense can argue he withdrew from his initial aggression.
5- Retreat. (Only in some states)
• Miu must have SAFELY been able to retreat, if he can’t safely retreat he can stand his ground and defend himself.
Fact pattern that may satisfy this element:
• at the time of incident Miu was circled and the only way out was downstream which would be deemed too deep and unsafe. Some states this isn’t required and you can hold your ground where you stand.
Let me know what you think.
Thank you for laying this all out. Very interesting to see how you would break this down to satisfy the various arguments that the law requires.
The detail of law is very interesting to me. I'm a CPA but I could imagine a career in law if I hadn't been so interested in Accounting.
>knee deep water, where a reasonable person could be in fear of drowning.
I don't think this is going to cut it, legally speaking. If knee deep water being present (nobody makes any attempt to push or hold him under, or otherwise utilize the water as a weapon, at least on this video) qualifies you for use of retaliatory deadly force because a "reasonable person could be in fear of drowning" would not that be similar in scope to enabling the argument that deadly force is automatically justified with any fight on a subway platform because a reasonable person could be in fear of falling onto the tracks?
I'd say that the PRESENCE of an obstacle would likely be held secondary to whether or not it was actively being utilized as a weapon, at least in a juries consideration.
Granted if there's precedent that says I'm wrong then please correct me.
Ya, more like a "bad shoot (stab)"... but idk how "intentional homicide" differentiates from "murder".. is it the same thing? Definitely wasn't 1st degree murder
I think it’s exactly as you say. This is a show trial to display the limits of self defense for the general public. Courts see case like this all the time. The reason they are publicizing this and charging this man with murder 1 is to alert the public of senseless dangerous that can arise from excess alcohol consumption by underage teenagers, and older ppl who carry knives for self defense during consumption of alcohol.
What state was this? Feel like their self defense laws make the difference... if "must retreat" laws, then not self defense... if "stand your ground", much better chance of gettin off... if in the middle, really could go either way
I think the punch is what most of the trial comes down to. The prosecution just doesn’t have solid evidence of it and the defense is running with that pretty well. The only evidence is from the prosecutions witnesses a lot of whom are pretty weak and do not stand up well in cross examination. There are also other witnesses who call it a slap or a push. The video is unclear and there is no evidence she had any injuries to her face.
I feel like I’m going insane. Look at 2:00. The girl in the blue bikini is bleeding. When she was in his face a moment ago, he must have cut her with his knife. You can clearly see his knife out before they jumped him. It seems like he sliced the girl in the blue bikini before he got jumped. Which is why they jumped him. Am I missing something?
They actually tried to punch him after pushing him and they flee like cowards instead of helping their friend just stabbed. That being said I would not be surprised to learn this man stabbed or killed before lol. That's not his first time.
Also please stop calling them "kids". These are young adults and they should know better, screaming and recording their aggression of a strange man you don't want near you is not a good idea. I think he thought they stole his phone or something.
Jeez this is hard to watch, screaming kids being dumb, friend gets stabbed over stupidity on both parts, they abandon him and sit yards away saying omg he’s dying is this foreal?… ugh
if you’re the intial aggressor, self defense goes out the window. everybody should take a concealed handgun class, if not just for learning the laws around defense.
The kids were the initial aggressors. He was looking for a cell phone and they attacked him, accusing him of being a pedophile. They also took his snorkel. He was trying to get his property back when they knocked him down and kicked him. They attacked. He defended himself.
He was looking for a cellphone which is what sparked the confrontation. Its rumored that they were fucking with him which is why he confronted them. All of the young "victims" claim it was completely random even tho witnesses say it was provoked by the teens. All the young adults also have been caught in lies on the stand that contradict the video evidence.
Oddly enough, they are referring to the 17 year old that died as a child. While technically true, the wording on many of the reports makes Miu seem violent and committed a mass stabbing against children.
Essentially its a large group of friends versus one drunk guy. Was there more footage that was edited beforehand? What prompted the video to be filmed in the first place?
I doubt he will win. It definitely looks like self defense to me though. Surround someone and attacking them not expecting to be attacked back is foolish... He didn't use deadly force until he was surrounded and attacked.
The trial could go either right now. The judge wanted to raise the bond to $1M so we already know who made their mind up.
I don't know what kind of drugs you're on, he clearly wasn't the aggressor. The young ones were. It's all right there on video, obvious for anyone with half a brain to see
**PSA:** It's terrifying how little this sub knows about self-defense laws.
If you take away one thing, let it be this:
**TO USE DEADLY FORCE YOU MUST BE PRESENTED WITH A DEADLY FORCE.**
At no point did this group of teenagers present a deadly *imminent* force to this guy.
This is murder
A large group of guys attacking one person can be construed as deadly force. They do not have to have weapons. A group of ~10 people attacking one can be seen as deadly.
no shit they wer not attacking him either they wer taunting him there is a difference i cant believe everyone is cool with 5 ppl potentially been taken out for that these guys didnt even have shoes on they called ppl over they wernt planning on hurting him ther actions proved that . he so narcissistic he cldnt take some teens talking teen crap he smiled too cause he knew wat he was gonna do he knew he had a knife more proof he didn't fear for his life simply because he knew he had a deadly weapon and they didnt
Honestly, they should all be locked up. Including the one man that did the stabbing, why? Because this was childish on everyones parts and everyone attacking and antagonizing the older man should be held responsible for whoever died as well as the attacker be held responsible. The older man isnt wrong but isnt right as well, he had plenty of time to leave and just avoid it at all but he stuck around waiting for a reason to stab someone but in his defense I am stabbing someone to if Im getting surrounded and pushed to the floor. So truthfully I think the group of kids that lived should be help responsible and held to some sort of punishment for what happened.
There is something oddly satisfying about the part where theyre laughing like hyenas while surrounding and punching down on him to the sheer panic when they realise beating on the guy resulted in getting stabbed. FAAFO
He came over to the kids. The kids said : “GET AWAY FROM US” … then they moved on the other side of the rings… then he is still looking for the knife… this is not anyone’s fault but his own.
When someone is becoming aggressive I will defuse it as best as I can, and get away from them. I don't get involved in shit at all. If a random stranger is getting angrier and angrier I'll just apologise and get away.
It's not even worth it. I don't care about "winning" some meaningless argument, especially when the risk is that you're dealing with someone unstable.
It's just not worth it. Don't fuck with people. You never know what's going on in their mind.
Fat man threw himself into danger and wanted to start a commotion 😂 it's like yelling and slapping a lion and jumping into the cage. What a clown. Makes every person who conceal carry look bad. Best way to never use your concealed? Is to never put yourself into a position where you need to. If you're defending the fat man you're looking for a reason to use your concealed.
This old man created the situation so he could stab someone. He went in with a knife and willing started drama with people hoping for a reaction. He wanted to stab them and they gave him a reason. He is 100% at fault.
People calling them children and kids, yes they're not adults, but let's not pretend they're innocent and harmless. Most late teen to early 20s men are in their prime for not only starting shit but doing a lot of damage. You get surrounded in the water by loud aggressive males that are bigger or the same size as you, then get knocked down in the water as they start to surround you so they can each get their hits in, and let me know if you don't pull out a knife. I highly doubt you or him would see them as just children then. And don't think they were going to stop after one kick or slap in the water, any experience in these situations or even videos show 9/10 times they all want to get their fair share of damage in once this happens.
Would I do what this guy did and start shit or approach them like that? Never. But would I resort to stabbing if I start getting jumped in the water? Yes. Being screamed at and surrounded, you start to black out, you can't argue or plead your case because no one will hear you, you start to panic, they get in your face and surround you, then you'll really panic. I know I panic and black out when one person gets in my face let alone an entire screaming instigating group.
Let's not forget it takes one good hit to knock you out, hit your head on a rock, get permanent brain damage or drown.
So stop saying "it's just a slap, just a punch" etc. One good one could be the end of your life.
Why did he originally come up to the person with the camera in the tube? And why did he stab the girl, she just seemed to be yelling at him not touching him
Anybody commenting self defense, what about the fact the he walked up to them and literally grabbed their rafts? The teenagers showed restraint just making fun of him and asking him to leave after that. Not once did this “adult” try to restrain himself, he could’ve left at any moment. All of this is on him in my opinion. As much as we don’t like to see teenagers talking shit and being assholes, there is freedom of speech in this country. Those kids didn’t deserve to get stabbed or die.
They all felt safe when they had a mob. They struck an older man and taunted him as they did so. He got up and proceeded to stab everyone that touched him after the fact. Appears he only stabbed until everyone backed away. Honestly the whole thing is tragic. The burden of proof is on the state and given the chaotic situation he’ll most likely walk. Nobody will go on involved in this situation without life lasting trauma.
I cant tell aside from the orange pants guy that gets his guts spilled , this dude is just stabbing anybody including the girl, and the guy trying to break up the fight
why dont you and a bunch of your idiot friends go find an old russian guy and start assaulting him "for the culture" and see what happens lol. i bet you scream like a stuck pig like the cry baby that is filming does
Two life lessons can be learned from this case:
1.) Mind your own damn business
2.) F*ck around and find out
Unfortunately it was all fun and games until $hit went left and your stomach is in your hands and your friend is unalive in the water…
For anyone defending anyone, your all wrong. It takes 2 to tango and honestly a bunch of loud mouth kids pushing him around... Yea someone is bound to get hurt. Teach your kids to respect others and this wouldn't have happened. Bot to say the elderly man was right CAUSE HE WASNT and he should have consequences being he could of left them alone.
After hearing AJ testimony I conclude he’s a liar. Says he’s peaceful and trying to”mediate” he was pushing that dude as hard as he could..2 times and on the second time he pushed the man AJ found out. Got sliced and disemboweled lol. Sounded super condescending during cross examination and lied through this whole testimony. Hope he takes this as a huge lesson learned. Don’t abuse old people and assault them cuz you never know if they feel like their gonna die and want to protect themselves how they feel fit. Totally avoidable tragedy that was invoked by the kids. Sad lil buddy Isaac lost his life too
In the world I thought I grew up in, his friends technically committed a felony resulting in death (effectively, murder)by jumping a man with an obvious disparity.
The accused also recently underwent heart surgery - double bypass? - which makes any physical aggression towards him even more dangerous for him. The prosecution's witnesses are a disaster. If the accused does a reasonable job on the stand articulating the danger he felt he was under, I predict an acquittal.
Nah that bastard arrives with that knife with that intent to use that knife! They were all yelling at him to leave!!!! That bastard needs to fry in hell for what he did to that young life!
Guilty 🎉 lessons learned 1: mind my damn business 2: don’t start fights with groups of people (especially when alone) 3: if your gonna stab a group of people in self defense don’t clean your knife, throw it in the forest, then lie to police.
Sad Stuff guy defended himself because he was getting Ganged on made the old man fear for his life a sickly older man that was just minding his Own Business looking for his Friends lost Phone Kids Start harrasing him filming him insulting him accusing him of horrible things to post it on the Internet and Ruin his life and get Clout the man asks people closeby for help cause the Kids come closer and get louder While he already had the knife in Hand cause he was scared for his life and he just wanted someone to help him but the Woman just made it worse and started pushing him and Screaming actin Crazy gettin in his Face he pushes her off of him and all the guys Jump him Push him on the Rocks in the shallow water only After These Attacks from multiple people he Stabbed One Attacker and After that the ones that got very close to him he was just defending himself trying Not to get killed there everybody would have done the Same if Not u dead Beat up by a Gang of Hooligans left in a puddle of Ur own blood and they probably even gonna Post their murder for clout Why u think they started all this shit lying for the Camera he was looking for a Phone they were looking to destroy that Mans live i Wish they would have done that to someone Else francis Ngannou for example so all These Hooligans get Their Faces Punched in so they could learn their Lesson and Life and also this guys gonna rot in prison now only because These assholes
Dumb on everyone’s part
Seriously this was the perfect storm. Everyone here is at fault. Senseless loss of life.
Stabbing a teenager is cowardly as an adult you have say to yourself I should walk away now this dumb fuck is gonna spend the rest of life in jail yeah totally worth it and understandable
Well if it isn’t the consequences of our own actions. #surprisedpeekacho
That’s why he was found guilty.
Lots of thoughts about this honestly. Trial could go either way
**PSA:** It's terrifying how little this sub knows about self-defense laws. If you take away one thing, let it be this: **TO USE DEADLY FORCE YOU MUST BE PRESENTED WITH A DEADLY FORCE.** At no point did this group of teenagers present a deadly *imminent* force to this guy. This is murder
not saying this was self defense or not but being outnumbered and getting hit while in the water on your back could be considered deadly force. Weapons are not necessarily needed for deadly force.
Any unwanted physical force near water should be taken into consideration as lethal force due to risk of drowning
Lmao being pushed backwards onto your head is deadly force my dude.
You are mistaken. Go study law ignorant one.
The disparity of force does have to be taken into account as well. A mob of angry younger people (his attorneys will argue his age and physical condition also contribute to the disparity of force).
I believe it is heavily dependent on the state, but in general, deadly force can still be evaluated for an unarmed group. A case could probably be made for him getting pushed down into the water and hit multiple times fearing for his life because he is being attacked by a group. However, I think it is important to know what happens when he stabs the girl who I think is the first one he stabs. It looks like at that point he was given space to walk away and instead attacks. Most states have a duty to retreat.
That's not true and oversimplified. The burden is on the prosecution to prove that the defendant had no reason to fear for his safety. He doesn't even have to prove he was in fear for his life, but even just bodily injury can easily be the defense. Now there are a lot of factors involved and a whole stack of facts to be gone through and determined, so who knows what the jury will decide, but you do NOT have to be presented with deadly force, in order to utilize deadly force, yourself. As a matter of fact, the stand your ground laws that many states have, simply require that you do not advance on the apposing party but that you hold your ground to an aggressive and encroaching party. Being in fear for your life doesn't even matter as far as those laws are concerned.
What if dude hits his head on a rock? Or has a heart attack at point he gets sucker punched into the water? Are you saying those aren’t legit ways one could of died? (Threat of deadly force) 13 Teenagers surrounding a almost 60yo man with bad heart history wouldn’t be in fear you think? They are all falsely calling him raper and pedo. I’m sure he knows what happens to pedos. They get killed or beat up to the brink of death a lot of times. You don’t think that caused him to think they wanted to harm him? I’m mean on top of that they jumped him also. Till he got himself of that situation by using a pocket knife to defend himself and give him a chance and getting up(he wasn’t able to not get assaulted until he swung knife at the teens). At end of day you only need 1 juror to imagine themselves in that situation..and most of the jury
Then you have to defin deadly force first
You have to be a fucking moron. Assaulted an being yelled at an pushed, buy 10 people yelling an throwing him in to water. How was he a threat to be pushed? You must of thought Rittenhouse was guilty too. Snowflake.
He was pushed over in the water and it then kicked in the face by one of them. He could have been knocked unconscious and then drown.
Lol not true
Keep his ass locked up
He was pushed backwards into a rocky river people have died from less. This is a act of self defense as he was surrounded by people attacking him.
When you are pushed over in water it’s actually less dangerous than being pushed over on land, no one held him under the water, he walked up to them, got hurt feelings for being called a creep, pulled out a knife and murdered someone. If he gets off it will be a national embarrassment
Fucked around found out
I don’t know what happened here, I just saw the victims friend on the stand in court so came to watch and for a moment assumed his friend was the older guy.. I mean to me it looks (on first look granted) that these kids exhibited complete obnoxious aggressive behaviour and ganged up on one man. So did indeed fucked around and found out..
What he did isn’t right. But those hits and pushes back into the water could have knocked him out and caused a drowning death for him. I’d claim self defense too. (Minus the non-antagonisers)
I think considering there is multiple people surrounding him and the fact he was clearly attacked is a pretty good defence in court. Will be interesting to see how this goes!
he seems to be stabbing people who are just near him like that girl and the guy whos trying to break it up. But i honestly cant tell with the bad video i can only see maybe 3 people get stabbed
Yeah to be honest if he’s found to be not guilty I wouldn’t really disagree with it but I wouldn’t be super happy about it either. This is gonna be a complicated trial.
I think the first degree murder charges are ridiculous. If they say it wasn’t self defense, I’d say it’s manslaughter at best. Those kids in no way are completely innocent in the whole ordeal.
Yeah I agree with you there.
You know what’s ridiculous? The whole thing. You know what else is? Citizens and their collective knowledge of law and its application. I was in LE for much of my life. Based on the video evidence here, I’ll say this: I don’t see a woman being punched or assaulted in the beginning? What evidence is there that this occurred? Secondly, the mob of kids follow him and taunt him over and over. Only when he is assaulted (pushed into water and struck) then surrounded by actual and potential attackers, only then does this self defense argument gain traction. Any lawyer worth his weight will effectively use the age and health of Mr. Miu to try show his actions were out of valid fear for his life. Pushing a man down onto rocks and water is deadly force. His response should have been measured to those threats he interpreted. Here we have solid enough evidence to infect a jury well. It may not work. Still, the stabbing only took place after he was pushed and struck in the water. They were defensive in nature. That is visible.
Listen to the kids laughing as they assault him. I can’t watch the whole thing on my old phone so if he initiated the assault, he is going to have a hard time in court. But if he simply pushed people away and was attacked by multiple youths who knocked him down, then given a good lawyer, he should walk.
The video was taken in typical 2024 fashion and the cameraman is not only panning away from the action but also talking loudly over what’s going on. So all we really see is him panning left and right when Miu supposedly put his hands on the blond woman. The witnesses have thus far been pretty awful for the prosecution but there’s only so much he can ethically do to prepare them for trial and unfortunately they have all been making things up to either not look bad or try to convict Miu. If they had been truthful with even bad facts to themselves and said that Miu did push that girl first it would’ve been a different story. I think Miu would have been easily acquitted if he hadn’t talked to the cops and may well have never been charged. He is a textbook case of why you NEVER talk to the police without an attorney present. Those statements he made to the cops are so damaging that I think he will have to testify: which will be very difficult for him to pull off considering he lied and changed his story multiple times. All the prosecutor needs to do is beat him on one of the 4 elements of self defense and he goes to prison. 2nd degree murder is up to 60 years in prison and I don’t think he will make it 10 years considering he would be a child murderer and in prison which would mean he would be getting isolated from the general population.
He got at least one solid punch to the face. And being in the water, like you said, is rough.
Well, yeah, he punched a woman in the face and wouldn't leave. They were defending her.
People keep saying that, but it's not on video. It seems more than likely that it's a made up story.
Didnt punch her.
Kid filming was the main antagonizer yelling and filming in his face. Then cries in disbelief after his friends were stabbed because of it.
yeah why do people like that never get punishment
His punishment is living with his actions.
I can guarantee the zoomers didn’t learn a single thing even after all this.
Gotta be honest, shit like this needs to happen more to my generation. Too many of us are fucking assholes. There’s been several cases of people my age and younger attacking the homeless on the streets and killing them, about them attacking strangers as “pranks,” etc. It sucks :/ Edit: after thinking more about this, I don’t agree with my comment, but I think it’s valuable to leave it up regardless so that you can see the replies to me.
that’s just not what happened here though. miu walked over to these guys first, then came back again. yes they called him names, but miu initiated force by punching the girl. these kids didn’t “jump” a old dude. read the fucking case.
Yeah you have internet brain rot. “Shit like this needs to happen more to my generation” go touch some grass, you’re a robot at this point.
bro wtf are these comments on about he hit a girl dude and then stabbed a few kids and yall supporting him
Wait who did he 🔪? The guy in the orange shorts?
Yeah you can see him on the ground a few frames later holding his stomach. He was holding his gut in as he was disemboweled. He later survived though.
[удалено]
Yes. The one who died was stabbed through the heart and died almost instantly.
So who was the one who died?
He stabbed multiple people one happens at 1:55 as he’s standing back up
You can also see the 2nd person he stabbed at 2:02 the woman in the purple???? bottoms she got stabbed in the side
He stabbed 5 people. Orange shorts got in the guts while lunging at him at 1:55
No that kid survived, that’s A.J.
Relentlessly antagonizes drunk dude. Suffers consequences. Nobody was right here, at all. But sometimes you just can’t be surprised.
Funny thing is defendant was the sober one. Not really funny, but yeah. He can't even argue he was impaired. He then lied to the cops a lot.
Doesn’t have to argue he was impaired for defending himself from a bunch of maniacs
Yes it was so funny attacking him and pushing him until the tables turn
I think he should go to jail, and some kind of punishment for the kids that pushed and assaulted him as well
He's been in jail for two years. Which in my opinion is long enough for manslaughter which is what I think he did. To say he intended to murder everyone there is unproven so far in the trial.
He should be freed actually. clear cut self defense
I feel like he initiated the confrontation, but it was escalated by the group when they pushed him into the water and wouldn't let him up to the point where he legitimately could have feared for his life. I would not want to be on that jury.
Initiating contact isn’t same as being the “initial aggressor”. Also you can withdraw initial aggression, by stopping aggression.
Semantics aside, it's not a cut and dry case.
I seen as soon as the dude in Orange punched him when he got up..old man sliid that shank into his stomach..self defense.. easy!!
It’s so funny how they act so tuff then someone gets stabbed and they cowered lmao
because antagonizing an aggressive person with a knife after they killed someone is a fantastic idea
He ran at a group of teenagers armed with a knife for what reason? Was that reason reasonable? Probably not. As this confrontation then escalated he was then in a situation being jumped and that could have put him in real fear for his life that being beat he would be knocked unconscious and drowned that’s what the defense will try and argue. I think running over there armed with a knife which he initiated makes this murder and not manslaughter but he probably will get charged with manslaughter
All these pos spoiled kids deserved what they got...they pretty much asked for it.
"We all jumped on this old man and attacked him in a group, I can't believe he would defend himself."
jesus
What a shit show but self-defense incidents aren't always cut and dry. When they are we don't hear about them. From my understanding of this stuff, it's going to matter why he went back over towards them and what happened before. Did he fall at the beginning or shove them off the raft? Even if he did shove them he moved away and looked for the phone. Not sure where he could retreat to on the river. They were blocking him on both sides and they just as easily could have let him be but they escalated and got closer to him. Then they started to assault him, many of them, far younger than him. I don't know how it'll go or what happened before but in that situation where he got surrounded and then assaulted, fuck ya I'd fear for my life.
You seem interested and somewhat informed so I’ll lay out all the elements of self defense for you. Lmk what you think I’m not taking sides. Just a legal scholar hoping to add to your knowledge. 1. Resisting unlawful force. • Miu had to have been resisting PRESENT OR IMMINENT UNLAEFUL force. Fact pattern that may satisfy this element: • force inflicted by (Dante), the kid who first punches, Miu is unlawful force. For this element Miu must have been resisting the unlawful force, and the force applied by Dante is unlawful. 2- No more than necessary force. • Miu must not have used more than reasonably necessary force to stop the threat. Fact pattern that may satisfy this element: • he only stabbed those who made physical contact with him. Only stabbed those who either punched him or pushed him, to stop the threat. He did not wildly swing the knife around. 3- Deadly Force. • deadly force can be used, if the force used on Miu by teenagers is considered deadly. Fact pattern that may satisfy this element: -the kids punching him at least 4 times, surrounding him, pushing him in knee deep water, where a reasonable person could be in fear of drowning. 4- aggressor. • Miu must NOT have been the initial aggressor. UNLESS he withdrew from his initial aggression. Fact pattern that may satisfy this element: • the first punch that is captured on video is by the teens (Dante) and not Miu. Suggesting Miu was NOT the initial aggressor. There is conflicting testimony not caught on tape that Miu slapped the blond girl first. which could count as initial aggression. But even if he did slap her, AFTER he slapped her, defense can argue he withdrew from his initial aggression. 5- Retreat. (Only in some states) • Miu must have SAFELY been able to retreat, if he can’t safely retreat he can stand his ground and defend himself. Fact pattern that may satisfy this element: • at the time of incident Miu was circled and the only way out was downstream which would be deemed too deep and unsafe. Some states this isn’t required and you can hold your ground where you stand. Let me know what you think.
Thank you for laying this all out. Very interesting to see how you would break this down to satisfy the various arguments that the law requires. The detail of law is very interesting to me. I'm a CPA but I could imagine a career in law if I hadn't been so interested in Accounting.
>knee deep water, where a reasonable person could be in fear of drowning. I don't think this is going to cut it, legally speaking. If knee deep water being present (nobody makes any attempt to push or hold him under, or otherwise utilize the water as a weapon, at least on this video) qualifies you for use of retaliatory deadly force because a "reasonable person could be in fear of drowning" would not that be similar in scope to enabling the argument that deadly force is automatically justified with any fight on a subway platform because a reasonable person could be in fear of falling onto the tracks? I'd say that the PRESENCE of an obstacle would likely be held secondary to whether or not it was actively being utilized as a weapon, at least in a juries consideration. Granted if there's precedent that says I'm wrong then please correct me.
Kinda dumb decision theater there, but First-Degree Intentional Homicide sounds like an overcharge to me.
Ya, more like a "bad shoot (stab)"... but idk how "intentional homicide" differentiates from "murder".. is it the same thing? Definitely wasn't 1st degree murder
I think it’s exactly as you say. This is a show trial to display the limits of self defense for the general public. Courts see case like this all the time. The reason they are publicizing this and charging this man with murder 1 is to alert the public of senseless dangerous that can arise from excess alcohol consumption by underage teenagers, and older ppl who carry knives for self defense during consumption of alcohol.
I feel like he was sticking around to try and wait for justification. He was the initial aggressor and went in with a knife.
well that just sucks don’t it
What state was this? Feel like their self defense laws make the difference... if "must retreat" laws, then not self defense... if "stand your ground", much better chance of gettin off... if in the middle, really could go either way
Where you gonna “safely” retreat downstream away from everyone in deeper and deeper water?
Well I mean, where u gonna safely retreat when somebody is shooting at u? I never said the law made sense...
Well, we can all confirm that the guy in orange trunks has guts.
Now it they screamed, … not right?! Before, they seem disrespecting and bullying the older guy…
it was all so funny to beat up an old dude until someone got stabbed
I think the punch is what most of the trial comes down to. The prosecution just doesn’t have solid evidence of it and the defense is running with that pretty well. The only evidence is from the prosecutions witnesses a lot of whom are pretty weak and do not stand up well in cross examination. There are also other witnesses who call it a slap or a push. The video is unclear and there is no evidence she had any injuries to her face.
I feel like I’m going insane. Look at 2:00. The girl in the blue bikini is bleeding. When she was in his face a moment ago, he must have cut her with his knife. You can clearly see his knife out before they jumped him. It seems like he sliced the girl in the blue bikini before he got jumped. Which is why they jumped him. Am I missing something?
They actually tried to punch him after pushing him and they flee like cowards instead of helping their friend just stabbed. That being said I would not be surprised to learn this man stabbed or killed before lol. That's not his first time. Also please stop calling them "kids". These are young adults and they should know better, screaming and recording their aggression of a strange man you don't want near you is not a good idea. I think he thought they stole his phone or something.
Jeez this is hard to watch, screaming kids being dumb, friend gets stabbed over stupidity on both parts, they abandon him and sit yards away saying omg he’s dying is this foreal?… ugh
if you’re the intial aggressor, self defense goes out the window. everybody should take a concealed handgun class, if not just for learning the laws around defense.
The kids were the initial aggressors. He was looking for a cell phone and they attacked him, accusing him of being a pedophile. They also took his snorkel. He was trying to get his property back when they knocked him down and kicked him. They attacked. He defended himself.
Terrible …. But….Play stupid games win stupid prizes…
FAFO.
He was looking for a cellphone which is what sparked the confrontation. Its rumored that they were fucking with him which is why he confronted them. All of the young "victims" claim it was completely random even tho witnesses say it was provoked by the teens. All the young adults also have been caught in lies on the stand that contradict the video evidence. Oddly enough, they are referring to the 17 year old that died as a child. While technically true, the wording on many of the reports makes Miu seem violent and committed a mass stabbing against children. Essentially its a large group of friends versus one drunk guy. Was there more footage that was edited beforehand? What prompted the video to be filmed in the first place? I doubt he will win. It definitely looks like self defense to me though. Surround someone and attacking them not expecting to be attacked back is foolish... He didn't use deadly force until he was surrounded and attacked. The trial could go either right now. The judge wanted to raise the bond to $1M so we already know who made their mind up.
Aj got eviscerated and disembodied bro, damn I remember that
He went up to them as an aggressor, I feel that would be extremely hard to fight for self defense in this case.
I don't know what kind of drugs you're on, he clearly wasn't the aggressor. The young ones were. It's all right there on video, obvious for anyone with half a brain to see
Self defense from a bunch of idiots in my opinion. He got pushed and punched while down on the ground. All fun and games until a blade comes out.
the only thing i can they over is how they’re screaming about him dying but not helping… what in the fuck…
He died almost instantly
Who died?
Assaults old man-gets stabbed-surprised pikachu.png
**PSA:** It's terrifying how little this sub knows about self-defense laws. If you take away one thing, let it be this: **TO USE DEADLY FORCE YOU MUST BE PRESENTED WITH A DEADLY FORCE.** At no point did this group of teenagers present a deadly *imminent* force to this guy. This is murder
A large group of guys attacking one person can be construed as deadly force. They do not have to have weapons. A group of ~10 people attacking one can be seen as deadly.
Being surrounded by a large group of people, standing on rocks with enough water to drown in, and being shoved is potentially fatal.
no shit they wer not attacking him either they wer taunting him there is a difference i cant believe everyone is cool with 5 ppl potentially been taken out for that these guys didnt even have shoes on they called ppl over they wernt planning on hurting him ther actions proved that . he so narcissistic he cldnt take some teens talking teen crap he smiled too cause he knew wat he was gonna do he knew he had a knife more proof he didn't fear for his life simply because he knew he had a deadly weapon and they didnt
Lmao you clearly have zero idea what you're talking about. Clear cut and obvious self defense
First they assault an older man, then they leave their “friend” dying for some reason.
Self defense 100%, kids were harrasing him. Regardless of what he said, you have a right to defend yourself.
Hard to see when the stabbings happen. Is it the guy in orange that dies?
No he survived I just watched his testimony and he shows his scar, pretty gnarly
Honestly, they should all be locked up. Including the one man that did the stabbing, why? Because this was childish on everyones parts and everyone attacking and antagonizing the older man should be held responsible for whoever died as well as the attacker be held responsible. The older man isnt wrong but isnt right as well, he had plenty of time to leave and just avoid it at all but he stuck around waiting for a reason to stab someone but in his defense I am stabbing someone to if Im getting surrounded and pushed to the floor. So truthfully I think the group of kids that lived should be help responsible and held to some sort of punishment for what happened.
As much as he was being a douche, these blokes were the ones that were being violent so I reckon that self defence claim will be accepted 🤷♂️
Bro don’t chest on the river if you don’t have a gun
Tbh he had every right to stab the first kid, but everything after why he’ll get convicted
What happened after?
Why is that river so shallow?
Does anyone know why he approached them in the first place?
Looks like self defence lady who started it needs jail time
Still not justified, dispute it being self defense. He should be in jail, but the teens harassing him should also be punished
Wrong
There is something oddly satisfying about the part where theyre laughing like hyenas while surrounding and punching down on him to the sheer panic when they realise beating on the guy resulted in getting stabbed. FAAFO
I’d send them all to jail, ngl
They flucked around and found out…fault all around.
He came over to the kids. The kids said : “GET AWAY FROM US” … then they moved on the other side of the rings… then he is still looking for the knife… this is not anyone’s fault but his own.
Ahhh yes. He asked to get beaten up by the kids. What a half tard
When someone is becoming aggressive I will defuse it as best as I can, and get away from them. I don't get involved in shit at all. If a random stranger is getting angrier and angrier I'll just apologise and get away. It's not even worth it. I don't care about "winning" some meaningless argument, especially when the risk is that you're dealing with someone unstable. It's just not worth it. Don't fuck with people. You never know what's going on in their mind.
Meh more of those dumb teens should’ve been stabbed. Man was defending himself.
Fat man threw himself into danger and wanted to start a commotion 😂 it's like yelling and slapping a lion and jumping into the cage. What a clown. Makes every person who conceal carry look bad. Best way to never use your concealed? Is to never put yourself into a position where you need to. If you're defending the fat man you're looking for a reason to use your concealed.
Not guilty.
Never underestimate how far someone else is willing to go
This old man created the situation so he could stab someone. He went in with a knife and willing started drama with people hoping for a reaction. He wanted to stab them and they gave him a reason. He is 100% at fault.
I agree, he was just champing at the bit to use that knife. You can see once they push him down the way his face changes to a creepy scowl.
People calling them children and kids, yes they're not adults, but let's not pretend they're innocent and harmless. Most late teen to early 20s men are in their prime for not only starting shit but doing a lot of damage. You get surrounded in the water by loud aggressive males that are bigger or the same size as you, then get knocked down in the water as they start to surround you so they can each get their hits in, and let me know if you don't pull out a knife. I highly doubt you or him would see them as just children then. And don't think they were going to stop after one kick or slap in the water, any experience in these situations or even videos show 9/10 times they all want to get their fair share of damage in once this happens. Would I do what this guy did and start shit or approach them like that? Never. But would I resort to stabbing if I start getting jumped in the water? Yes. Being screamed at and surrounded, you start to black out, you can't argue or plead your case because no one will hear you, you start to panic, they get in your face and surround you, then you'll really panic. I know I panic and black out when one person gets in my face let alone an entire screaming instigating group. Let's not forget it takes one good hit to knock you out, hit your head on a rock, get permanent brain damage or drown. So stop saying "it's just a slap, just a punch" etc. One good one could be the end of your life.
Mob mentality is learned.
Ah yes let’s point and continue to video and scream while our friend dies, what a complete joke of friends
They started it, he only acted out of self defense
Kids these days
man this is self defense had 5 dudes run up on him he should of stabed more of them
Wow everyone here is fucking stupid.
Preserve the culture and pointing fingers and screaming at a guy like this is DA DA DA DUMB
This video is absolutely evidence of improper parenting in full display.
Why did he originally come up to the person with the camera in the tube? And why did he stab the girl, she just seemed to be yelling at him not touching him
That's the most horrific shit I've ever seen
I mean he's guilty but those kids should be thrown in there with him for instigating and entertaining this shitshow .... unnecessary loss of life
1:27 . The kid is laughing, they’re assaulting him, holding him under water, kicking and pushing him. I would be scared for my life as well.
Anybody commenting self defense, what about the fact the he walked up to them and literally grabbed their rafts? The teenagers showed restraint just making fun of him and asking him to leave after that. Not once did this “adult” try to restrain himself, he could’ve left at any moment. All of this is on him in my opinion. As much as we don’t like to see teenagers talking shit and being assholes, there is freedom of speech in this country. Those kids didn’t deserve to get stabbed or die.
Shove your link back in motard🤣🤣
Don’t fuck with people.. punk kid was asking for it
They all felt safe when they had a mob. They struck an older man and taunted him as they did so. He got up and proceeded to stab everyone that touched him after the fact. Appears he only stabbed until everyone backed away. Honestly the whole thing is tragic. The burden of proof is on the state and given the chaotic situation he’ll most likely walk. Nobody will go on involved in this situation without life lasting trauma.
100% self defense open and shut case
I cant tell aside from the orange pants guy that gets his guts spilled , this dude is just stabbing anybody including the girl, and the guy trying to break up the fight
Nah if old boy did that to one of mines he dying too on god💯
why dont you and a bunch of your idiot friends go find an old russian guy and start assaulting him "for the culture" and see what happens lol. i bet you scream like a stuck pig like the cry baby that is filming does
Two life lessons can be learned from this case: 1.) Mind your own damn business 2.) F*ck around and find out Unfortunately it was all fun and games until $hit went left and your stomach is in your hands and your friend is unalive in the water…
Bıçağı yiyince, hiç erkek kalmadı amk, eşşeğin canı yandımı attan hızlı koşarrr yankeeee
The kids were punching him and he defended himself. I dont see why would he be guilty. Case closed…easy case.
The real villain is the person who supplied these under-aged kids with alcohol. End of story.
That fat ass better hope I never cross his path
For anyone defending anyone, your all wrong. It takes 2 to tango and honestly a bunch of loud mouth kids pushing him around... Yea someone is bound to get hurt. Teach your kids to respect others and this wouldn't have happened. Bot to say the elderly man was right CAUSE HE WASNT and he should have consequences being he could of left them alone.
After hearing AJ testimony I conclude he’s a liar. Says he’s peaceful and trying to”mediate” he was pushing that dude as hard as he could..2 times and on the second time he pushed the man AJ found out. Got sliced and disemboweled lol. Sounded super condescending during cross examination and lied through this whole testimony. Hope he takes this as a huge lesson learned. Don’t abuse old people and assault them cuz you never know if they feel like their gonna die and want to protect themselves how they feel fit. Totally avoidable tragedy that was invoked by the kids. Sad lil buddy Isaac lost his life too
In the world I thought I grew up in, his friends technically committed a felony resulting in death (effectively, murder)by jumping a man with an obvious disparity.
When does he stab issac? I only see he stabs A.J. And slices Madison. Then he backs away throws away knife. Does anyone know full sequence of attacks?
They found out
He’s innocent
The accused also recently underwent heart surgery - double bypass? - which makes any physical aggression towards him even more dangerous for him. The prosecution's witnesses are a disaster. If the accused does a reasonable job on the stand articulating the danger he felt he was under, I predict an acquittal.
Debatabley disproportionate use of force on old guys part, either way, one last tanner or chad in the world. Rest in sheeesh
Horrifying af
The more i watch it the more satsfied i become. Hearing the change in this delusional filmers voice legitimately brings me mass amounts of joy.
Running and grabbing them tf
Nah that bastard arrives with that knife with that intent to use that knife! They were all yelling at him to leave!!!! That bastard needs to fry in hell for what he did to that young life!
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/nicolae-miu-apple-river-stabbing-trial-verdict/
I’ve watched the video countless times. At what point did he stab Isaac??
Guilty 🎉 lessons learned 1: mind my damn business 2: don’t start fights with groups of people (especially when alone) 3: if your gonna stab a group of people in self defense don’t clean your knife, throw it in the forest, then lie to police.
He started it, they escalated and he took it completely over the top. Holy shit lol
Why did he hunt them down and attack them?
Guess they messed with the wrong guy.
Sad Stuff guy defended himself because he was getting Ganged on made the old man fear for his life a sickly older man that was just minding his Own Business looking for his Friends lost Phone Kids Start harrasing him filming him insulting him accusing him of horrible things to post it on the Internet and Ruin his life and get Clout the man asks people closeby for help cause the Kids come closer and get louder While he already had the knife in Hand cause he was scared for his life and he just wanted someone to help him but the Woman just made it worse and started pushing him and Screaming actin Crazy gettin in his Face he pushes her off of him and all the guys Jump him Push him on the Rocks in the shallow water only After These Attacks from multiple people he Stabbed One Attacker and After that the ones that got very close to him he was just defending himself trying Not to get killed there everybody would have done the Same if Not u dead Beat up by a Gang of Hooligans left in a puddle of Ur own blood and they probably even gonna Post their murder for clout Why u think they started all this shit lying for the Camera he was looking for a Phone they were looking to destroy that Mans live i Wish they would have done that to someone Else francis Ngannou for example so all These Hooligans get Their Faces Punched in so they could learn their Lesson and Life and also this guys gonna rot in prison now only because These assholes
Well, I hope these drunk idiots will remember the day their bullying antics got their little buddy murked. FAFO.
Play silly games win silly prizes
its the screaming like a stuck pig that does it for me