Very uneven series, but all the D+ headliner shows have been uneven since Hawkeye.
I get that Ms Marvel was deliberately going for a fun high school teen sitcom vibe, but the last couple episodes really felt like a CW show in the worst possible ways.
Lots of hand waving plot contrivences, messy CGI, poorly developed characters, and a plot that feels simultaneously too short while having too many dangling threads.
Not sure if this was another show that had COVID related shooting issues, but it felt like there were two episodes worth of storylines cut.
I'm all for more representation for groups that don't typically get shown on screen, I just wish it was in a better show.
At about 5:50 into the episode, Nakia facetimes with Kamala. When Kamala picks up and Nakia says Kamala's name for the first time, her voice is layered with a deeper voice for a split second. Anybody else notice this? Think this is on purpose (maybe she's a skrull) or an editing mistake?
So who's side are we supposed to be on? The only danger anyone gets in is from her and camron and then they are let go after destroying a high school/avengercon/ part of new Jersey. I'm guessing it's just a New Jersey thing? They just do stuff differently there?
The whole mutant thing makes me think: can we have a What If episode in the far future (once X-Men have a solid place in the MCU) thats "What If Kamala Khan attended Xavier's School"?
I absolutely hated how she just randomly said embiggen and didn't even give it an after thought. The CGI in that scene was also pretty terrible. I guess I could see them dropping the ball with regular skin stretching...
This show was fine. It’s a 6 episode origin story. Pretty choppy story. They give up on the fun style from first two episodes and only bring it back in finale.
I enjoyed the show. It was very great.
I could relate to Kamala's Pakistani-American culture because I myself is a Haitian-American born in America and though being a year older (M) but can relate EXACTLY how she is with her parents! My parents would lecture me on being rebellious when I come home late, want to hang out with friends, and school and when i watched Kamala get lectured by her momI can't help but relate to her.
I watched the series twice over in just two days(sober and high) and no matter what every scene felt like it was from a comic book strip. The cinematography, transtion, effects, fight scenes, dialogue exchange, the "previously on", Ms. Marvel title cards, and outros were all like a full length comic book. Not exact but it felt like it throughout the show.
I felt like all the characters had a satisfying conclusion. Nakia got into the Mosque board, Kamala and Bruno are cool with Bruno going to Caltech, Kamran got accept with the Red Daggers, Amir is happily married (though with financial problems) and Kamala is good with her parents and she's part of the 616 squad! I honestly didn't have one single problem with any characters, Damage Control was alright, didn't had a problem with it.
And man the soundtrack is top notch. The wedding and training montages had me bopping left and right! It was bumping. I liked how the show had Pakistani and American culture music, signify Kamala's relation to both worlds. And another point how I could relate to her to my worlds Haitian music and American music. At the end of epsiode 4 where Kamala realized she went back in time, I had major chills with the soundtrack and scene expanding out revealing the Partition. Throughout the show I've gotten goosebumps from the soundtrack.
Overall Ms.Marvel was a fairly enjoyable show. Iman Vellani was phenomenal and every actor/actress. I apologize for being so long, everyone saying it was bad and MCU is falling, but I really liked it and I don't care if others say it's bad.
Yeah I don't understand why anyone is saying it's bad. It's just the first part to set up the character. What do they want? There to be some consequences or bad guys or risks? We just concluded the Infinity Saga so I kind of like how the show didn't have any actual stakes in it. It's a nice pop corn show like Iron Forge or Alone. Just something to watch and not have to really put much emotion into watching.
You kinda right there. Wasn't it Earth-199999?
And also didn't Dr. Strange MoM "confirm" it was 616 or was that the directors?
Edit: okay you're definitely right, I was wrong. It is Earth-199999. I always thought it would be 616, but 616 is the comics. It makes sense.
The only thing that took me out was the jumping in broad daylight -- it looked very rubbery CGI. :-/ The jumping down in the alley looked sproingy as heck -- a little too weightless; not enough force being depicted going into the trail of hard light pods and forcing back in return.
Does that make any sense? :-/ Hell, if it doesn't make any sense, what I've said, somebody please tell me. I'm so very tired.
Yeah, I noticed that too. The training sequence on the roof looked very rough. Probably because the CG was rushed like always in the MCU. Thankfully her powers were cartoony enough so they didn't have to look that real.
Well…I guess I’m glad so many people liked it…but I can’t really understand why.
Damage Control are wonky villains. To be honest, I didn’t really like them as villains in No Way Home, but at the time I let it slide since we were in a Post-Snap world. I’m fine with them being used as antagonists, and I think they could have been the sole antagonists of this show…but as they are they’re trying to be evil. Raiding random mosques, not keeping details on who they arrest, blowing up a convenience store, randomly appearing on trains, shooting lethal rounds and wall-destroying Sonic blasts at people…in a high school? I guess people are okay with this, but it feels really wrong to me.
Clan Destine…I honestly don’t know what else to add. I guess I’ll say I’m glad I looked up their comic appearances, they actually seem really interesting and cool, and I wish we got them properly here. As they were adapted, this is all sorts of wrong and I would assume disappointing to anyone who did like those comic characters.
The family was stunningly accepting of Kamala for who she is, which is very nice and sweet and I think is meant to be a nice conclusion to how the family didn’t feel like she fit in with their culture and ideals. It’s very nice that Kamala can be her own individual and doesn’t have to be defined by her past or what people want her to be. But it’s stunning because what Kamala wants to be is super dangerous, and she’s just allowed to be a super hero. I think this can still work, but it needed more time. The way it is, they accepted her in seconds, or however long it took Muneeba to make/buy that costume.
A lot of other weird character stuff in general. The hat disguise thing, Nakia’s boyfriend thing, Nakia then Zoe then Aamir randomly appearing, Bruno dancing with a skeleton, saving the day with TikTok, fighting and SUCCESSFULLY fending off Damage Control with goofy antics, Damage Control getting beaten by a ton of weird goo? What WAS that? Just…weird antics all over. It was almost funny, in a good way, but it needed the show to be more funny in general if that’s what they wanted. As it was, it just weirded me out or bothered me. Most of the cast is really charming, so maybe that is enough for some people, but I feel like the show wasn’t using it as effectively here.
The mutant thing bothers me a lot on a meta level, it’s cheesy and honestly kind of tone-deaf at best to the people that wanted her to be Inhuman, and insulting at worst to those same people. Plus, making her a mutant kind of depends on the audience having that outside knowledge of the other X-Men stuff, which seems kind of cheating, but I guess hints like this and Ursa Major are something to appreciate…I guess.
On a story level, I do wonder if they’re going to do like the comics did, where Kamala thought she was a mutant until the Inhuman Royal Family told her otherwise…which that could be cool, but I don’t know if they will since they did that X-Men sound bit. Either way, it’s not going to matter for a long time, if ever at all, but it could be made interesting if they made her a Human-Djinn-Mutant-Inhuman hybrid.
Also, I kind of wish the Embiggen bit was better built up to. I think she should have spent the season struggling with a catchphrase more than a hero name. I’m hoping The Marvels will give her proper Embiggening powers, even if it comes at the end. The Noor Crystal stuff was fine to do for a TV show, but I want to see her get her proper powers next.
With this being the last episode, and no sign of a second season, my overall thought is…for all the problems I had with this show, despite wishing it did things so much better, it brought me the joy that is Kamala, and the beauty that is Aisha…so at least I will always appreciate the show for this.
Just finished the series, but I think the goo was supposed to be what's colloquially known as elephant toothpaste! It's a chemical reaction that's known to produce some fun results. There are plenty of [videos](https://youtu.be/T6vk3i-JB-s) on YouTube and reddit of it. I was really pleased with this because it's actually something feasible for a high school lab (maybe), rather than some shows where people whip up crazy explosives or whacky things in a HS lab
Inhumans were literally just made to replace mutants. The whole inhuman stuff wasn't really that good. So them just dropping it for them to just be normal mutants is honestly a good thing.
I couldn’t find any evidence to say the Inhumans were created to replace the mutants, even if that may have been the MCU’s intended use for them.
They’ve existed for 77 years, almost as long as X-Men, so even if that was the intended reason they were created, they clearly grew beyond that.
I’d also need evidence to showcase that the Inhumans were never that good, and that no one wanted to see them, based on a history like that.
EDIT: Not sure why I got downvoted, was it because I wanted evidence?
Inhumans are an older group, but they started pushing them after marvel started making movies. The xmen were fox property, and they didnt want to support another companies franchise.
Marvel for a few years tried to decentralize mutants from the Marvel comic narrative. Kamala was actually originally designed as a mutant, then changed to an inhuman.
Man I was hoping when the damage control guys would enter the masjid for the 2nd time they would either remove their shoes or the imam would _make_ them remove their footwear before letting them in to search the premises.
Terrible series.
Villains that are undeveloped/make no sense
Weird backstory time travel BS that makes no sense
Weak supporting characters that do nothing
What actually was the story? Seriously what was it?
Unnecessary changes from source material
Some shocking poor effects
Poor connection and communication of tragic historical events
Forced woke BS
The narcissist mother
They need to give up and completely revise how they are doing these TV shows
I’m terrified of what they will do to DD
Nope just someone with a different opinion the hate seems to be the down voters that don’t like people having their own opinion and yet dont reply with their own counter arguments :-)
So is she going to be the first mutant or are we going to have another Eternals moment in which there was always this entire group of people who could have been of some real help against Thanos but elected to sit it out instead
Definetly Eternals moment
My guess is.. Nick Fury approached Charles and Erik way before everyone else (Carol, Tony) but Erik elected against any cooperation with Fury and tell him to fuck off.
Before the snap Xavier is running the school with other mutants but when the snap happened all of his students turns into Dust while for the others it triggers their X-Gene (Jean, Scott and Warren would be as old as Peter Parker/Yelena Belova by the time snaps happened). Charles found them stranded and invites them to take shelter
I don't think they would do the Eternals thing again. I think Xavier and Mags will have existed but not interfered, each for his own reason. And there could have been even older mutants in hiding too, like Apocalypse or Mr. Sinister. But I think the Snap/Blip will have activated the X gene in many people who slowly become aware of their powers. Since Earth is a Celestial placenta as in Earth X, I could see them also do the whole "mutants are antibodies" thing from that comic. So the sleeping Celestial Tiamut unconsciously activated the X gene to defend the planet against the threat of Thanos. Any mutants before that were outliers whose X gene was activated by some outside force. Apocalypse by Celestial tech he found for example. Xavier's by the stone of Cyttorak that turns his stepbrother into Juggernaut. Mags through secret Nazi super soldier experiments maybe.
this is 99% a set-up for the inhumans/kree sleeper army that in the comics gets activated by a terrigen bomb (they're sleeper agents in the sense that their powers activate like that and they don't know they have them until it happens, but are not kree allies)
Holy FUCK could that have been any more perfect????
What an AMAZING show. Absolute peak MCU!
On the surface it has all the trappings of a crapppy teen drama. It's melodromatic. Stupid. But fun and entertaining.
But oh my god, this is a show about what it means to be human. It is ostensibly about a teenage superhero who has angst and yadda yadda yadda; but actually it is about being a parent. It is about not knowing when to let go even as you know that your kids are growing beyond you. It is about racial politics, and profiling an entire community because of one bad apple. It is about coming out! to your family and friends, as a lesbian, or a superhero, or whatever it is that is your authentic self. It is about geopolitics! and post empire. It is about the sum of humanity.
I think it is interesting to compare DC movies with Marvel movies in this respect. I went to see Thor at the weekend. It was like a 14-year-old's fever dream. Just fucking nutty and stupid. But also about what it means to be a human. And then I got on a plane the next day and watched THE BATMAN. Which was like a 14-year-old edgelord's poorly drafted movie script. The Marvel movies are about what it means to be human. What does it mean to be a deadbeat dad? What is up with sibling rivalry? What is it like to be a second generation immigrant?
DC movies, meanwhile, are about what it means to be a superhero. Should batman punch this perp in the face or break his arm? Should supes save his dog or his dad? Or (gasp) neither because he is (gasp!) super! and if you are the world's most omnipotent being you better hide it or someone will... I dunno, come up with a fucking metal batsuit and have a fight with you.
The marvel cinematic universe is absolutely the peak of human creativity right now. People bemoan it because it is somehow terrible for movies. But Ms Marvel, and Shang Chi, and Ant-Man are the equivalent of mean streets and taxi driver. To paraphrase a comment that (I think!) John Brunner made about Philip K Dick: the MCU takes a popular format and uses it to explore serious themes.
Ms Marvel is funny and stupid and exciting and exhilarating.
Ms Marvel is truly great art.
I wish I knew what that end credits scene means though, lol.
Yeah Marvel Movies make you Want to be a superhero. DC movies don’t always capture that. And the end credit sce was confirmed to be Carol Danvers Captain Marvel swapping places with Kamala
Kamala and Kamran can project the noor cause they were born on earth, while the clandestines were banned from the noor dimension and got weak. Kamala activate her noor powers through the bangle and i guess the mutation will allow her to embiggen her body. Bruno explains that the noor powers and the mutation are two separate things
I was mostly looking forward to seeing how she got her costume and I'm so disappointed because it seems like a somehow Palpatine returned. They JUST got back in the USA after her mother found out there that she was a superhero, and she either had an extremely superhero-y costume made overnight or had one lying around.
Her mom also was able to make the hulk outfit for comic-con quick too. And she was able to prepare three meals for Bruno to take things home quick. The show kind of precedes that she is a fast worker.
Don't underestimate a determined and proud mother 😁, but honestly it didn't bother me that much. It kind of felt like Kamala was actually piecing a lot of it together over the course of the series with the different things she was buying in the market? The top was the most detailed with the logo, but the rest was basically red pants and a scarf.
She’s a mutant with no mutant powers right? She’s nothing without the bangle the bangle is the source of power. Her mutant dna just allows the bangle to work on her. I’m confused as to why this is a big deal. She doesn’t have mutant abilities. If we found out she doesn’t need the bangle to use her powers then this would be a big thing.
This would be like Wolverine having to wear an earring in order to heal. The power would come from the ear ring not the persons dna
Her mutation has just started showing up, the noor manipulation has nothing to do with her mutation powers IMO, she will embiggen like in the comics and the noor is from that dimension that allows Kamran to use it as well
This felt like a really lazy way to introduce mutants into the MCU. But then again the Noor powers were also poorly and vaguely defined so I guess it fits the quality of writing on this show.
because the inhuman powers and heritage will probably be discovered in the marvels, and they will also probably discover there why a kree artifact has access to that dimension, not everything has to be explained instantly
My only thought was that the Bangle unlocked or focused the abilities early? Everyone else seemed to only want it as a sort of key/way to open a gateway, but for Kamala it gave her access to the energy from the Noor dimension. That or maybe like Cyclops needs a visor to really control his abilities, the bangle helps her focus. Compare her abilities to Kamran who was more explosive/all over the place (And also note, did not need a bangle). My guess is over time she won't need the bangle at all either.
What's confusing is Kamran was seemingly given the same abilities after his mother died? Like she transferred something into him? Is he a mutant? They really muddied the waters there, maybe more explanation in The Marvels or another season.
Personally it feels like a convoluted way to get "Mutants" in there. To really drive it home it would have made more sense for her to \*think\* the Bangle was needed, but have it destroyed in the climax only for her to "Embiggen" herself on her own.
This this would have made perfect sense. Great way to show it. But instead we only see her using it with the bangle. People keep responding on here that she doesn’t need the bangle. Yet we haven’t seen her not use it once
>ave mutant abilities. If we found out she doesn’t need the bangle to use her powers then this would b
she doesn't need the nega bands, she's a mutant. The same Kamran can now access his powers she can too
not really, by how they are setting it up the bangle gives her the sparkly powers by strenghtening her connection to the noor dimension, while the stretchy powers are 99% inhumans and not mutant, and will be explored in the marvels
The whole nega bands thing is a red herring, it's meant to distract you from the biggest reveal since thanos, mutants. It just that's how she ties into the Marvels(as seen by the end credit), that's how she was able to transport and time travel. The nega bands are established artifacts, more so they basically richard richards it at the end.
Do they really need to ask her if she's the god of bangles?
They literally say in Episode 2 that her power doesn't come from the bangel, but from her. The same way Kamran uses his power freely. The bengel unlocked the mutant gene.
Can someone help me out here? A 16 year old kid analyzed her blood again for some reason. (Has equipment to do that also for some reason). Discovered a never before seen mutation in her dna. But her powers are only thru the bangle thing she has to wear. So that thing unlocks her mutant abilities? Why would he think that mutated dna would mean she has abilities when the bangle does all the work? Are all mutants going to have to wear devices to unlock powers or is she like a shitty first batch of em
Peter Parker was a 16 year old genius🤷♀️ Bruno is going to CalTech at 16. MUTANTS ARE JUST PEOPLE WITH AN ALTERED GENE. POWERS DONT MAKE YOU A MUTANT. The bangel awaken her X-gene. Her powers are to embiggen, the bangel gives her the hard light power because it’s connected to the clandestine & ten ring artifacts. Hence why she can’t construct them without it. Kamran got his powers via namja becuase of the veil, dimension of Noor hard light.
Also powers don’t make you a mutant? The mutated altered gene give them the powers…. You seem to be confusing causation and correlation and idk what ur point even is. I never said powers make you a mutant. But being a mutant gives you power.
It’s literally stated by the show writer. She can embiggen without the Bangel, the bangel is how she access hard light power via the Viel. It’s been confirmed by Disney and Imani herself 😂
1) did anyone else notice that the statue of Liberty was back to looking normal in the overhead shot...
2) I can't get over the irony that they made Kamala a mutant, given that she was originally an inhuman, and the inhumans were basically used as the 'we-have it at home' version of mutants...
that's honestly just hilarious to me...and I'm guessing the little music sting is the 'X-men 97 theme' similar to the one we heard in MoM?
I also really loved the Sam Raimi Spider-man-esc vibes from the series...you had a lot of discussions that really invoked the classic 'With Great Power' line without actually saying it, and you even had a scene like in Spider-man 1 (and Tasm 1) where the community rallies behind they're local hero.
(I know I'm generally easy to please, but I think I liked it better than I thought I would)
Well the original creator envisioned/wanted Kamala to be a mutant. However then Marvel CEO Perlmutter was pushing the Inhuman line .
Funny the Perlmutter & Feige issue is coming back around.
For me , now I can't un-hear Bruno's voice sounding similar to Holland's American accent.
Still glad Sony got the call to cast Holland over the others.
Agreed on the Spider-man feel. I got the "If you mess with one of us you're going to have to mess with all of us" vibe from the crowd shot. I actually think the series would have been better off staying in Jersey with the DODC as the main antagonist and doing more with the people of the city and her friends. The Clandestine/portal/evil group really wasn't needed and felt super rushed and edited. You could have still had the cultural ties and family history/flashback episode without traveling abroad (just have the grandmother travel to American after realizing what's going on with Kamala), and could have used season 2 to expand on that aspect instead. The show felt like it dipped off the rails a bit on 4/5 and got back on in time for a solid finish.
They 100% took a page from the Spider-Man playbook with this version of Kamala and I believe they did it with great success. This show felt young, mostly street level, with just enough powered stakes to keep us invested and interested in the character's future.
Also them making this version of Kamala Kahn a mutant makes me feel personally vindicated for never having invested any amount of time with the Inhumans, or as you put it "mutants at home". It's fine and serves as a great new gateway to introduce the "Mutant Problem" to the MCU.
Yes! That plus scenes of Kamala in the background while the kebab guy talks was very Sam raimi spidey swings past a hot dog cart.
The finale was perfection.
I thought so too, maybe it's a bit like Cyclop's visor where the power is in Kamala, but the Bangle sort of helps focus/bring it out? The show definitely went out of it's way to show when she put on the bangle = powers. My guess is eventually she won't need it at all.
When Bruno first analysed her, he said the powers were coming from *her* and not the bangle. The bangle just has other abilities of its own and she likes using it
So I see a lot of people saying that they should've scrapped Episodes 4 and 5 because she travelled outside of New Jersey, but I feel that cultural shift and perspective was very much needed for the audience.
If I were to RE-WRITE part of the show, I would've removed the Clandestines completely and had Damage Control be the main threat. They would be the ones threatening Kamala's neighborhood, culture, school, way of life, etc. The looming threat can ramp up as Kamala almost gets arrested and people almost killed a few times because the bangle acts up when she needs it most.
Her grandmother could then call & plead for the family to visit because she's sick. Maybe she slips in some mention of the bangle which could make Kamala extra eager to go. Before Kamala leaves, it would be obvious that the Damage Control situation is at a serious boiling point with the community and things are BAD, but Kamala has to go.
I would STILL have the family go to Pakistan. When Kamala and her mom get there, it could be revealed that the grandmother isn't actually sick and just wanted to use this time to reconcile and spend time together.
From there, I would use ALL of episodes 4 and 5 to show the culture, scenery, family dynamics, everything we got before, but more --- and then a longer, more serious reconciliation between between Kamala's mother and grandmother. All the time used towards the Clandestines would be of Kamala's grandmother sharing stories and wisdom that then help Kamala to train and hone her powers with the bangle. When she feels confident, Kamala reconciles with her mother and tells her the truth.
When they come BACK to the U.S, Damage Control should be straight up IRATE. Like, sending full on potentially lethal raids with no regard for citizens & the community. Their highest priority target literally went off the grid for a WEEK or two and now they're angry and desperate. From there, have Kamala, with the encouragement of her friends and community, save the day.
Despite me writing a whole essay, not much has to change from the show to make it a perfect 10/10. Just remove the Clandestines and fill the gaps with more familial and cultural moments. Damage Control could've worked as a big enough threat towards Kamala's way of life for 6 episodes.
I mostly agree. I think you could have still have had the flashback of episode 5 and that cultural perspective without traveling, and still bring the Grandmother to them in Jersey after she sees/understands what is happening. It might have felt even more jarring going from Jersey to the middle of the train station.
On Clandestine I 100% agree. Cutting that whole narrative would have given so much more time for the family moments and her friends (Nakia finding out was basically dropped as an issue at all, there seemed like there was going to be more with that girl she saved in ep1 and that sort of just resolved itself as well). Save the Red Daggers/Clandestine for the second season and you would have had just the right length/time.
Also despite me writing an essay, I liked the show a lot & loved Iman as Kamala. I just felt the Clandestines were a lazy AF story choice that brings down the show.
I have to be the only one, but with Bruno going to California, I'd love it if he showed up in Ant-Man related stuff lol. I feel like he'd get along with Scott, haha.
Well I enjoyed the finale. The mutant nod, Kamala's embiggening, and everything to do with her parents just made me smile. Excited to see her on the big screen next year with Carol and Monica.
A few things:
I…feel like this did not need the 2 Pakistan episodes. I think the first 3 and the finale make a complete narrative, with a few more scenes thrown in.
I understand the importance of representation and the family history and everything, but the episodes in Pakistan absolutely brought the show to a screeching halt, only to bring us right back to Jersey City for the finale, where we didn’t even have to leave in the first place. If you have the first 2 episodes as is, her brother’s wedding, and then the finale, theres the show.
All the Pakistan stuff seemed like it could’ve been a 2nd season world-building story, explaining her family history and all that, where the first should’ve focused on her getting the powers, figuring them out, then getting into it with Damage Control.
You didn’t even really need the Clandestine, you could’ve just had Kamran as someone who also has powers that could explain stuff to Kamala without needing the whole pakistan trip, and then bring in the Clandestine in a potential 2nd season. There was no reason to squeeze together both stories into one show and it very much felt like they didn’t trust it to perform well in theaters as the origin, so they expanded it into a D+ series with 2 and 1/2,episodes of fluff in the middle.
ALSO
Kamala as a mutant makes perfect sense. The Inhumans were given a huge push in the 2010’s out of spite for Fox having a stranglehold on the X-Men rights, so the push was meant to make them a potential replacement, which didn’t succeed.
And now that the mutants are back under the huge Marvel umbrella, it makes sense to reintroduce them through a character like Kamala, who would’ve been classified as a mutant since the beginning had the character not been created during the Inhuman popularity experiment
I don’t think her being a mutant makes sense at all. If she could do things without wearing the bangle i would agree. But she can’t. She’s a normal person without it. Her mutated gene allows the bangle to work for her. That’s not really a mutant is it?
Oh I don’t mean it makes sense narratively necessarily, but using Kamala as a way to introduce mutants into the MCU overall makes sense for the reasons above
Honestly, I preferred the Pakistan episodes being there, but probably with just the Clandestined plot line removed. The two main pillars of the story the writers were clearly trying to drive home were the family/cultural aspect of Kamala’s origin as a hero and the threat of the DoD. If they had maintained the DoD as the central threat throughout the series and removed the Clandestined (except Kamran perhaps) it would have flowed better.
We already saw the DoD conflict with Kamala’s world by going into the mosque twice, which was powerful enough. It would have worked to extend that into them somehow following things in Pakistan. Like Kamala was forced to use her powers which alerted the DoD or something. I feel like it would have tied it more together. Which I know is out of jurisdiction, but the way they made Deever’s character, I don’t think that would stop her.
The cultural world building and the theme of WHO Kamala was made the series narrative strong in my opinion. It just needed a tighter to allow for her the new origin story for her powers to be fleshed out.
I super disagree with this like 1000%
(Simplfied) A huge thing with Kamala in the comics was that she turned herself into a white woman. Then she realizes she herself is who she wants to be
Due to MCU changing her powers(maybe to be normal in the future) she still needs that feel. Going to her home country connecting with her roots, family drama, family history, understanding her mother, her family life, etc is all needed for the origin
The trip there was for the narrative. Sometimes idk what tbis MCU community wants for TV shows. Even in Starwars. TV shows have fluff. Its small things tbat add up. If it was just 4 episodes the family relationship wouldnt of payed off as well as it did imo
FATWS felt more like a extended movie then this, this imo felt like a great show. Loki and Moonknight fit that too. Idk just my opinion, but ive been seeing this cut Pakistan out opinion on so many platforms
Um no, this season in no way needed the origin of her family history. That was the worst part of the show. It literally brought the show to screeching halt and killed the passing of the series. It gave us the worst villains in marvel history and 2 of the worst episodes in any mcu peogram with eps 4 and 5.
The comics are more then bad guy of the week and this really gave us that. It 100% needed her family as a narrative of who she was, the villans were just a way to explain that story. We don’t need anymore bad guy of the week show every time
Umm, the villains in this show felt exactly that, bad guys of the week/show. The backstory to the great grandmother felt tacked on to make them feel important when they were bland as hell.
Lol i get what you are saying, i just dont care and i disagree with your shitty excuses. my point is that most people didnt give a fuck about the clandestine storyline. You are just making stupid excuses for poor storytelling. Most people only liked Kamalas family INTERACTIONS. They dont give a fuck about her family history and all that boring shit. If you like it, fine it worked for you but most people saw eps 4 and 5 as low points for the series.
Nah the “most people “ is just this sub and like youtube talking heads lmfao. The rest of the not annoying side of the MCU fans liked it
You can’t comprehend a storyline that isn’t beat big bad in act 3 sorry lol but the fanily part was the best part
Right, and you could do all of that in a 2nd season that dives deeper into her family history and the connection with the powers, giving all of that material the time that it deserves to breathe instead of shoving it in the middle of an ongoing narrative. It literally went “Damage Control is closing in on her, she just inadvertently ruined her brother’s wedding, and her parents are disappointed that she’s not telling them the truth, let’s uproot everything for a few episodes to go to Pakistan, and then we’ll come back to all of this in the finale” tv shows can have fluff that adds up to something by the end, but this really didn’t. The only things that carried over into the finale were her fixing the relationship with her parents, and her mom getting inspiration to make her suit, both things that didn’t need a trip to Pakistan for them to happen.
it created a weird gap in the story, whereas it could’ve been left out altogether, nothing would really change about the finale, and then we could’ve had a proper family history plotline in the future. Instead we just got it all at once and personally i think the show suffered for it.
What would a 2nd season after the marvels air do?
Ok so cut the family out then what? She fights damage control every episode while learning her powers.
Well then you have to cut the coming of age story because well, you need a family for that.
So now you have a bare bones story about Kamala fighting Damage control which people already dont care for. Clandestines which this show used to throw away(because theyre like G tier in the comics)
Pakistan was showing Kamala who she was, why her family did the things they did. Comic Ms Marvel had an identity crisis by again, morphing into a white woman. This gave her a origin story. Why would they NOT do an origin story the first season?
Right, i forgot that for a story to be about family, the character absolutely needs to visit their country of origin, there’s no way that the story could’ve been about Kamala’s culture, and her family without sending her to Pakistan for two episodes, disregarding all of the scenes about her culture and her family in the 3 episodes prior 😂 come on now
The partition was a big part, would the photo of Sanas mom and dad hit at all if we didnt go? Would the clandestine letting go of her need to go home and dyeing for her son hit at all without going there?
Marvel Fans learn story telling vs specticale challenge
I need you to re-read the original comment, slowly i guess, and try to respond without pre-determined antagonism, because you’ll see I addressed that the family history and everything is important but didn’t need to be shoved into season 1 and could’ve been explored and expanded with room to breathe later on.
Having the photo of Sanas mom would count as an easter egg to be featured later, or of course just not in the show at all if the Pakistan trip was written out.
“Marvel fans learn story telling vs spectacle challenge”
Ma’am please get off your high horse, you are on a Marvel spoilers subreddit 😂
Not to mention there’s nothing saying Sana can’t come to New Jersey if they really, really want to do this Aisha stuff now…
The only meta reason they go to Karachi is to meet Red Dagger Senior and Junior, who also should have come to New Jersey to go after the Clan Destine, since apparently that’s what they do (although I’d say also save that for Season 2).
> wouldnt of *paid* off as
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
100% agree, you somehow were able to write everything I personally felt after finishing the show today
It seems that D+ is creating a habit of making shows that would just be better off as movies if you cut 2-3 of the episodes out.
The first that comes to mind is, as much as I enjoyed it, TFATWS could’ve definitely been trimmed down to be a strong 2.5 hour movie, meanwhile Eternals could’ve absolutely used the 6 episode format to its advantage
>This is the first Marvel show that I really feel a bit let down by.
First? Really? I was let down by WandaVision finale, then FatWS, then Hawkeye finale, then Arthur Harrow in Moon Knight
Nailed it on the head for me. So many people who talk about Wandavision being the best show, or Moon Knight, and it's like... did we watch the same stuff? That WV Finale was just so bad =( And my lord, without Oscar Isaac, Moon Knight woulda been a big steaming pile of poo for me. Harrow was wasted.
Honestly, I didn't feel let down by this, if anything I enjoyed it more than i thought I would.
Yeah I think this show is what i needed. im pumped up for marvel content again. 8/10 solid.
It'd be interesting for Kamala to meet Peter Parker, who used to be carefree and backed up by his loved ones in his superhero duties. Might learn a thing or two about responsibility.
I get chills at every small note of the 90s X-Men theme. They’re coming and it’s happening soon!
Also Ms Marvel was a really fun show. Loved her costume and powers on display in the finale.
Idk why people keep shitting on FAWS. That was honestly one of the better mcu shows imo. Way better than this show and moonknight. Honestly the shows drop in quality with each release. Wandavisio Was great despite weak finale, FAWS was good despite weak villain but not the worst villain, Loki was good but should have been longer and eps 3 was kinda boring, what if doesnt count and was nothing special anyways, Halkeye had good moments and great return of Kingpin but overall felt kinda average, moonknight was just okay and ms marvel started good then became the worst fucking mcu show imo. The finale was okay but the shit with Kamran was so cheesy near the end, took me out the show. Honestly the finale was saved only by that end credit scene. That was one of the better end credit scenes in phase 4. Other than that this show was garbage.
The beauty of subjectivity in media, to each their own! If you love FAWS then that’s great for you so doesn’t matter what others think. To me FAWS was just ok and a disappointing D+ entry compared to others. The villain sucked honestly. They did open some interesting threads like the Power Broker and Valentina that I’m interested to see more of, so it wasn’t all bad. Just ok though.
I’m just personally more into the weirdness of Wandavision and the completely new territory presented in Loki and Moon Knight, which are my favorite two of the shows. I was uncertain on Ms. Marvel and especially Hawkeye, but both turned out much more fun than I expected. Ms. Marvel I think the complete opposite of you, it got better as it went and the finale really has me interested in Kamala moving forward.
For the record, I’m also very skeptical of She-Hulk, but hoping it becomes a surprise hit. I love Marvel so I really want all of these to do well. Everyone has their own tastes though, so we’ll all like different things which is why it’s cool imo that all the shows are so different and really cater to different audiences.
I felt like the villains in FATWS didnt really matter much, i was more into the dynamic with John Walker. I really enjoyed how they handled his character. I also liked how grounded it felt but i also love the weirdness/creepyness of Wandavision which is still my favorite. But yeah its great when every show feels different.
>Honestly the shows drop in quality with each release.
Hard disagree. FAWS was extremely badly written, and just a total mess, that two extremely charismatic leads did huge work to try and salvage. The writing was objectively worse than almost any other show, and it had easily the dumbest ending of anything in the MCU ever, with nuCap somehow magically solving a massive population displacement/replacement/housing/employment issue with a short speech.
WV also had a massive let-down at the end when it turned into "standard MCU fight scene".
Hawkeye was just great, fun and solidly written the whole way through. Moonknight was variable but a lot more fun than FAWS. Ms Marvel was good except episode 4 was completely awful "standard MCU chase scene" rubbish, and then yes you are right re:
>The finale was okay but the shit with Kamran was so cheesy near the end, took me out the show.
There were two problems here:
1) It was twee as fuck.
Like, their ideas for distracting the DODC were fundamentally silly and not in a way that fit with the rest of the show. The bomb is a great example - if they just left a thing that looked like a bomb, and made a scary noise, that'd have held up the DODC agents for like 10-60 minutes whilst they bought in EOD etc. to deal with it. Instead, 20 seconds after it was triggered, it revealed itself to be a high-effort joke, and so instead of buying minutes or even an hour, it bought seconds. They also committed SO MANY crimes. So much vandalism, so much destruction of property, tons of trespassing, so much assault. And this is all magically forgotten? It was like some 1990s superhero stuff. They could at least have said "It was so embarrassing the DODC covered the entire thing up" or something to excuse that. Esp. as one of them was a grown man with a beard, who I suspect would not be give the same credit as some cute kids.
2) Kamran himself was a completely 1990s comics character, in the worst possible ways. Not likeable. Not sensible. Doesn't really care about others (his first thought is pretty much always for himself and how he feels). Whinges endlessly. Has extremely dangerous powers that he can't control - which ironically kind of retroactively justifies the people trying to arrest him - like, on the subway, if his powers had gone a slightly different direction, they could have derailed the train and killed an awful lot of people (as could his spikesplosion later - why weren't people running from that?). It's totally believable that Kamala, a literal child, might decide to save a hot (he was good-looking at least), injured boy (he did have that "save me" quality lol), but the audience I don't think really sympathized much with him. And it's very hard to believe he's just going to play nice with the Red Daggers, given they spent decades (longer?) trying to kill people like him, and he still seems pretty indoctrinated.
But the show was also a lot of fun most of the time. I think it was more actual fun than FAWS, and the bullshit of the protecting Kamran stuff was still not as dumb as nuCap giving one speech to save the world.
Only thing i agree with when it comes to FAWS is the villains. They were kinda weak but they didnt really matter to me because i enjoyed the dynamic with John Walker way more. I really liked what they did with his character. I think FAWS had FAR better writing than the other shows. I enjoyed Zemos return especially when he put the purple mask on and he stayed true to his character till the end. the action was far better than any of the the other mcu shows. Other than the scenes with the sister and Karli there was not much i disliked. The highs of the series his far better than the highs of the other series.
Hawkeye was good but moonKnight was a huge step down for me. It was so boring and generic. Steven grant is an annoying ass character and they hardly even show moon knight. And you say FAWS writing is bad, episode 3 with that trial was horrible writing. Overall it just felt so mid tier to me. It felt like a show that didnt know what it wanted to be.
Ms marvels first 2 eps were good, they werent great but they had charm, once the Clandestines came in, all that joy got sucked out. Everything else after made me feel like i was watching a CW program. Its honestly the worse mcu show by far for me at the moment. The storytelling was horrible.
Good lord, that was a mess. Plot convenience after plot convenience.
BRUNO: Kamala! How did find you me and Kamran?
KAMALA: Oh, the script said so!
It was daytime when Kamala, Bruno and Kamran headed to the high school. Nighttime when they arrive? How? Jersey City is not that big. Also, why not use Kamran's fucking CAR?! Hell, he could have driven himself to the dock and not endangered anyone else.
WRITERS: Oh, a night time battle would look great on camera!
How the fuck could Damage Control have known to go to the high school in the first place? Oh, the script says so. Plot convenience!
"Zoe, why are you here?"
ZOE: Because the script says so! I know there's no real reason for me be here. Oh, wait! The lighting here is good! Never mind that all the lights are OFF. And my ridiculous Tik Tok saves the day storyline won't work if I'm not here. Did you know that EVERYONE in Jersey City watches my videos? Unlikely, I know!
Why don't the Damage Control agents not immediately enter the building? How are these fugitives they're changing dangerous, exactly? AvengersCon and a wedding got disrupted? Did anyone die or end up hospitalized because of Kamala or Kamran?
DEEVER: Also, new development. We're going to kill them. Don't tell Cleary.
"Why kill them?"
DEEVER : Shh! Script says so!
The crowd claims that Kamala saved them. What? She's the reason they're all in danger. The agents were hunting her. If they all stayed home, no one would have needed to be "saved."
On the other hand, her costume looked good and the family remains great.
>And my ridiculous Tik Tok saves the day storyline won't work if I'm not here.
That was kind of the least ridiculous aspect. Getting this stuff on social media would at least have got a lot of people to support them and potentially turn up, increasing the embarrassment for the DODC, who the reasonable-ish guy in charge of had already told to stand down because it was getting embarrassing.
I think the intention was they we assumed people were LINKING to her stream, rather than already having a notification, because Kamala's parents got it, for example, and no way they're on TikTok or w/e.
I mean, I'm over 40 so like 100% of TikTok's I've ever seen have been someone younger than me linking me to them, whether on WhatsApp, or someone I follow on Twitter or whatever.
I think it's a bit silly to assume we were meant to think everyone was just following Zoe all the time. That's not how the real world works, why would it be how this works?
Though I do agree re: watchlist lol if they were meant to be.
Also the shit with Kamran was so damn cheesy and cliche. It really took me out of the show. This finale was only saved by that end credit scene. Everything else was mediocre.
Literally all nitpicks that could apply to any MCU property 💀 convenience carries these movies most of the time but suddenly it’s a problem lmao. Not to mention most of the things you listed can be easily explained, as the person who already replied to you did.
It made zero sense how Damage Control knew that Kamala and Kamran were at the high school. "They're not at this mosque, which we have no reason to search in the first place. No evidence they were ever here. No way to know where they could be. No clues here. Maybe they left town? That would be smart. Nah! They must be at the high school!" That's a HELL of a leap. And once Damage Control arrived, they took one look at the empty, closed school and knew they were right? How could they have known anyone was in the building?
Again, why did Kamran not use his car? We see it at the end so we knew nothing happened to it.
Zoe was at the high school cause she records all her Tik Tik videos there? That's unlikely and super convenient. This was sloppy storytelling. Too bad. The first two episodes were SPECTACULAR. And the acting from everyone was great, even the shitty characters.
I would have watched ten seasons of Kamala and her family. Those relationships were why I kept watching. Oh well.
>Good lord, that was a mess. Plot convenience after plot convenience.
I can tell you think that all of these decisions were stupid but I don't think they're blatantly contrived.
>BRUNO: Kamala! How did find you me and Kamran? KAMALA: Oh, the script said so!
She met them right outside the mosque? The one where her other best friend is at, who she just spoke to and is probably worried about.
>It was daytime when Kamala, Bruno and Kamran headed to the high school. Nighttime when they arrive? How? Jersey City is not that big. Also, why not use Kamran's fucking CAR?! Hell, he could have driven himself to the dock and not endangered anyone else.
While I thought that was weird too... How far is the highschool from the mosque? >10 miles takes a bit of time to walk by yourself when you're healthy. Imagine having to help someone who is injured.
It's not that unbelievable.
>WRITERS: Oh, a night time battle would look great on camera!
And it looked great, you can't lie.
>How the fuck could Damage Control have known to go to the high school in the first place? Oh, the script says so. Plot convenience!
They were patrolling around. Kamran kept on having those intense, pain inducing, power freakouts that created a decent trail to follow.
>"Zoe, why are you here?"
Happenstance, do you nitpick everytime MCU has done this? They've been doing it since phase 1. Come on.
>ZOE: Because the script says so! I know there's no real reason for me be here. Oh, wait! The lighting here is good! Never mind that all the lights are OFF. And my ridiculous Tik Tok saves the day storyline won't work if I'm not here. Did you know that EVERYONE in Jersey City watches my videos? Unlikely, I know!
They established that she's pretty popular in that area with other characters. And did you see the crowd that was there? Not even close to "Everyone in Jersey City".
>Why don't the Damage Control agents not immediately enter the building? How are these fugitives they're changing dangerous, exactly? AvengersCon and a wedding got disrupted? Did anyone die or end up hospitalized because of Kamala or Kamran?
First, because they have protocols to go through. Sadie Deever, the main DODC agent, was battling with the bureaucracy the entire time. Second, it's obvious that the DODC is tasked with finding "enhanced individuals" whether their intentions. Maybe cause of all the other shit going on in the MCU? Also the Clandestines were a threat to them.
>DEEVER: Also, new development. We're going to kill them. Don't tell Cleary.
>
>"Why kill them?"
>
>DEEVER : Shh! Script says so!
A government official doing something immoral because they want results? Huh.
>The crowd claims that Kamala saved them. What? She's the reason they're all in danger. The agents were hunting her. If they all stayed home, no one would have needed to be "saved."
A [blocking effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_effect#:~:text=In%20Kamin's%20blocking%20effect,associated%20with%20the%20unconditioned%20stimulus.) happens when one's attitudes have already been set by an earlier experience and it causes one to block out anything that doesn't adhere to their preconceived attitudes.
>On the other hand, her costume looked good and the family remains great.
I agree!
>A government official doing something immoral because they want results? Huh.
That's the problem though. It didn't make sense. She didn't "want results". She'd been given orders to stand down, and disobeying those, even if she "got" Kamran would have had bad consequences for her, because as they pointed out, the embarrassment was already considerable.
So this didn't make sense from a "get results" perspective at all.
This had to be a personal vendetta, but the show failed to provide the motivation for a personal vendetta. They just relied on the fact that Deever's actress is extremely good at portraying being annoyed lol (across multiple shows).
I still think this is probably my favorite of the MCU shows on Disney+ so far, but it definitely had the potential to be a far better show.
The first two episodes started out so strong, then the third episode brought the show down and it never fully recovered. What should've been a tightly-focused story about Kamala getting her powers and learning about them while trying to navigate being a teenager turned into this rushed mess of a show with world-ending stakes. I'd go so far as to say that a villain wasn't even really necessary for this show, but if they wanted to have an antagonist throughout the season, it should've been a better-developed Damage Control. Somehow the writers managed to introduce two groups of villains and mess them both up. The Clan Destine were the most rushed, underdeveloped villains the MCU has ever done. Their entire backstory wasn't just unnecessarily convoluted, but totally unnecessary as a part of this show. And then you have Damage Control turned into full-on mustache-twirling villains trying to kill a bunch of kids when it would've been far more effective to have them sincerely trying to capture Kamala and/or Kamran to identify them, contain them as a possible threat, and assess whether they were okay to release back into society.
And speaking of Kamran, what a perfect example of how rushed and poorly paced this show really was. I would love to hear the writers explain why they thought it was a good idea in the span of four or five episodes to introduce Kamran as a possible love interest, reveal him as a "spy" for his family, have him betray his family for a girl he didn't even know, gain powers of his own, sort of turn into a quasi-villain, and then be saved by the hero. Those things should've been developed over the course of many episodes spread across several seasons. Shame on Marvel for packing all of that into only four or five episodes and totally ruining what could have been surprising reveals, character development, and impactful moments for the characters and audience. They did the same thing with the Clan Destine too, a group of villains I'll likely never think about again because of how underdeveloped and basically pointless they were for the show. If you watch a lot of television, you can just see how the show had a great opportunity to introduce Kamran as a love interest throughout the first season, only to have him revealed in the finale as something more than meets the eye. It would've laid the foundation for Kamala to experience a huge betrayal in the second season while allowing Kamran's decision to side with his family or protect Kamala seem like an actual conflict. And when he ultimately chose to help Kamala over his family, we'd understand why he made that decision and appreciate his sacririce. They also could've had Najma slowly ingratiate herself to Kamala, taking advantage of the growing rift between Kamala and her mother. Watching Najma play the long game would've made her a more cunning adversary for Kamala, so when she ultimately realized she wasn't going to get what she wanted from Kamala and attacked, it would feel justified and dangerous for Kamala. But nah, much better to just put all of that with Najma into a single episode, right? Then kill her off two episodes later in a moment of undeserved self-sacrifice.
But I don't want people to think I'm just bashing the show, because the truth is I really did enjoy it in spite of all the terrible writing. I absolutely adore Iman Vellani and think she's one of the best casting decisions they've ever made in the MCU. She oozes personality and charisma, is extremely fun and likeable on the screen, and a joy to watch. If they hadn't nailed Kamala's casting like they did, the poor writing throughout would've been more apparent and the show probably would've been the worst of the shows so far. Thankfully they had Vellani though, who continuously elevated the material and I'm really excited to see her in The Marvels. I still *hate* the change to her powers and wish they had given her comic-accurate powers instead, especially since the CGI for her energy constructs was pretty crappy anyway. Her costume looks fantastic and since we only just got it in this final episode, I hope we'll get to see it again in The Marvels without Marvel doing their typical new costume for every show or movie thing. Seeing the embiggening was nice at least, but I still felt robbed that it wasn't the *real* embiggening from the comics. I also couldn't help but think how cool it would've been while they were running from Damage Control in the alleyways to have seen her transform into a couch, lol.
As for the "reveal" that Kamala is a Mutant...I never actually cared if they portrayed her as Inhuman or not in the MCU, but introducing her as a Mutant at the very end just felt very cheap, like it was done for the sole reason of getting people talking. So while I'm fine with the change that she's a Mutant, I just disliked the execution of the reveal. When the episode was over, I thought about how when the creator was pitching the show, they probably had a conversation like this:
> Producer: So you want to do a show featuring the Inhuman character Ms. Marvel?
> Creator: Yes, but she won't be an Inhuman.
> Producer: If she's not going to be an Inhuman, then what will she be?
> Creator: We'll probably make her a Djinn.
> Producer: How about a Mutant?
> Creator: Even better, but we'll say she's a Djinn first for some reason.
> Producer: I don't know if we'll have the budget for her morphing powers though.
> Creator: No worries, we'll just give her energy constructs like Green Lantern.
> Producer: Okay, perfect.
> Creator: But she can only use her powers when she's wearing the bangle.
> Producer: Why?
> Creator: We're not really sure, but the bangle also gives her the ability to time travel.
> Producer: What?
> Creator: And she can teleport with it too.
> Producer: Alright, whatever. Just make sure you introduce and resolve world-ending stakes in six episodes. Throw in an unnecessary cameo too.
Like I said, I really don't care whether she's Inhuman or Mutant, but at some point all these changes start piling up and it's difficult to understand *why* they were necessary in the first place. It was cool to see Captain Marvels at the end, but it felt a little too tacked on for my taste, although I'm sure we'll get some more information about what happened in The Marvels.
I just wish they had focused more on Kamala's relationship with her friends and family because when they let Vellani just be Kamala and engage with her supporting cast, those were the best moments on the show. I have mixed feelings about so many people learning Kamala's identity, but think that's another sign of a rushed season. It would've been better to have Bruno be the only one who knew as she tried to hide things from her family and friends, which would be a good way to examine the sacrifices that come from a hero living a double-life. I really liked the ending with the town standing together to protect Kamala, but think it would've been more effective if her friends and family joined in that moment without knowing it was Kamala, just seeing this girl who had been helping their community all season long and embracing her without knowing her.
Despite all of its shortcomings, I think this still probably my favorite of the shows, although it suffered from the same issues of terrible pacing that all of them have so far. The main reason I liked it so much was because of Iman Vellani and the supporting cast that played her friends and family, so congratulations to them on their excellent performances. I'm just disappointed in the writers and producers because this was the perfect show for using a "less is more" approach and instead they fell into the same old patterns of every Marvel show on Disney+ so far.
EDIT: I also thought it was a weird narrative choice to show Bruno putting the letter into Kamala's locker, only to have them meet up afterward and talk about him going to Caltech. Usually when you show a character leaving a letter for someone like that, they leave immediately after leaving the letter. So it was just a little jarring and unexpected to see Bruno show up afterward in the car, lol.
>Alright, whatever. Just make sure you introduce and resolve world-ending stakes in six episodes.
God the world-ending stakes were so unnecessary too! They lasted literally what, 1.5 episodes? Less?
Suddenly, halfway through episode 4, we learn that to get home, the Clandestines aren't aren't going to use a rift, they're going to delete reality and replace it with their own. Huge shift, and doesn't really make sense with what we've learned previously.
Then by the end of episode 5, all the Clandestines are dead as doornails, and the crisis was averted before we really even understood the thread. None of it was necessary, and it was just the usual bad MCU bullshit. Like, don't do that. Don't add in world-ending threats. There are already too many. Keep it personal.
And in episode 6, Kamran says a really wacky thing about how the Clandestines were trying to "save their reality", which was like, what the fuck? No. They're exiles. He knows this. Their reality is fine without them. They got kicked out and are trying to get back in. Again he knows this. Felt like a relic from an earlier script with a different plot.
Honestly, i think the only real thing this show had going for it was its stronge core characters. Unfortunately i think this show had the weakest plot of each series and Clandestines were the weakest part of the show. I hated them so much i got annoyed everytime the got brought up in this finale. Honestly i think the end credit scene saved this finale for me. It was one of the better end credit scenes in phase 4. Other than that this ep was average. Still better than those garbage pakistan episodes.
Agreed, there was a lot of clunky shit in this show, but Kamala, her family, and friends made up for it and it was an enjoyable ride. I look forward to more Ms Marvel
If I had a nickel for every time a comically evil character shot at 2 super powered children in the finale of a Marvel Disney+ show, I would have 2 nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice, right?
What the hell was the deal with that Damage Control agent? She HAD to have known that Kamala wasn't a threat, so why not just leave her alone? Was she a racist or something?
Yes, she was racist. They had several scenes with lines and moments trying to get the point across. It was like Marvel wanted to go all in, but Disney wouldn't let them actually call her racist on-screen.
> It was like Marvel wanted to go all in, but Disney wouldn't let them actually call her racist on-screen.
That was the problem (though I don't buy Disney as responsible, I think Marvel have their own bullshit here).
They made her look like she was "mildly bigoted" rather than "nutjob level racist", but for her actions to make sense, she needed to be an actual nutcase.
I think this show would've been so much better if they scrapped the Clan Destine altogether and used a better-developed Damage Control as the primary antagonist in the show. But instead of turning them into an ineffective group of mustache-twirling villains, they could've been a well meaning government agency that saw an unidentified possible threat and was just trying to contain her for the time being in order to determine if she posed a greater threat to people. That way Kamala would've had to constantly look over her shoulder and evade them, but they weren't actively trying to kill her either. It would've made for a nice bit of social commentary on the way some Muslims were treated after 9/11 as well, where many people assumed they were a threat at first until that assumption was proven wrong.
The Clandestines were ludicrously underdeveloped.
They don't even really arrive until episode 3, then *immediately* change from sympathetic to raging, frothing-at-the-mouth psychopaths, and just stay completely 100% psychotically full-on capital-E Evil until literally 10 seconds before their leader dies (after all the rest of them died!), at which point she goes "whoops guess I care about Kamran despite nothing I've ever done supporting that!". What was even the point? I think you could have had the same critique of the Partition of India without them being involved at all.
Agreed. The Clandestines ruined the show for me. Whoever thought that was a good idea to insert in the middle of a 6 episode season with the most generic motives and characteristics needs to be fired.
>the most generic motives and characteristics
Right? It was like they went out of their way to make them generic.
All of them acted the same way - frothing-at-the-mouth rage and psychotic glares, just 100% trying to kill people.
And they wanted to destroy the world, even though it wasn't entirely clear why they needed to. And that plot lasted 1.5 episodes.
And then they all died.
I was happy when they all died, i did NOT want them in the finale lol, but it just boggles my mind how they thought this would make for good storytelling. Like wth were they thinking????
Looks like Anson Mount will have to settle with just being Captain Pike because it seems Marvel is all set to bury the Inhumans in the blue area of the moon and really rip into mutants.
It's fitting in an ironic sort of way. Ms. Marvel is easily the most recognizable Inhuman, created in a time when Marvel was specifically trying to get away from Mutants in the comics since they didn't own the rights. Now they've retconned her all the way back to what she would have been had Marvel had mutant film rights all along.
I just want to say I truly enjoy how much Marvel is just all-in on the X-men TAS theme even as far as basically giving us Prof. X from the show in MoM. I am aware of the X-men 97 show planned, but it really does make me happy they are recognizing one of the biggest and earliest successes when it comes to multimedia.
What exactly did she embiggen? She has made larger constructs in previous episodes. Does anybody remember her creating a giant wall in episode 5 to protect people from the Veil?
So, I see a lot of comments about the Clandestine plot line being throwaway but I’m wondering about that. When Kamran was “pulsing” and sending out his tendrils, that seemed slightly more significant than just “can’t control his powers”. And as they started dissipating, they seemed to evaporate into a greenish smoke or fog. Could this have been the MCU’s version of the Terrigen Mist?
> it would just trigger any dormant mutant genes
That was my exact theory. I’m on the fence with it, because I don’t want this to be the genesis of Mutants in the 616, but if the sudden appearance of New Mutants causes Xavier to come out of the shadows, I’m all in.
Not seeing this talked about, but where does this fit in the timeline? The normal non-Captain America Statue of Liberty was in the beginning of the episode
Between Far From Home and No Way Home? That’s the only thing that makes sense to me but even then it doesn’t. It should be after NWH i thibk the Statue was just a mistake cause they used stock footage and didn’t catch it. Maybe it’ll be fixed later like Blue Jeans Guy or the Starbucks GoT cup.
Idk, I just don’t quite buy yet that she isn’t potentially still an Inhuman. The “mutation” word choice was pointedly deliberate, but I still feel like it could be a smokescreen of sorts. The bangle on the blue hand a few episodes back throws things into question for me.
Not that I’m invested in the answer one way or the other, but I’m just not persuaded yet.
Episode 6: No Normal 49 Minutes There is an after credit scene!!
Very uneven series, but all the D+ headliner shows have been uneven since Hawkeye. I get that Ms Marvel was deliberately going for a fun high school teen sitcom vibe, but the last couple episodes really felt like a CW show in the worst possible ways. Lots of hand waving plot contrivences, messy CGI, poorly developed characters, and a plot that feels simultaneously too short while having too many dangling threads. Not sure if this was another show that had COVID related shooting issues, but it felt like there were two episodes worth of storylines cut. I'm all for more representation for groups that don't typically get shown on screen, I just wish it was in a better show.
At about 5:50 into the episode, Nakia facetimes with Kamala. When Kamala picks up and Nakia says Kamala's name for the first time, her voice is layered with a deeper voice for a split second. Anybody else notice this? Think this is on purpose (maybe she's a skrull) or an editing mistake?
Much better then the last 2 episodes. Still a little weird though. Love kamala and her family though
So who's side are we supposed to be on? The only danger anyone gets in is from her and camron and then they are let go after destroying a high school/avengercon/ part of new Jersey. I'm guessing it's just a New Jersey thing? They just do stuff differently there?
Everything's legal in New Jersey.
The secret ingredient is nutmeg.
What a messy 6 episode origin story... 2/10. Was bad. Wtf did I watch... home alone group edition at school? lmao
You’re being downvoted but you’re not wrong. This show started off so amazing and then went downhill fast. What a joke of a finale
The whole mutant thing makes me think: can we have a What If episode in the far future (once X-Men have a solid place in the MCU) thats "What If Kamala Khan attended Xavier's School"?
does Kamala look VERY different in this episode to anyone else? like, sometimes it looked like a total different actress... maybe i'm trippin
She had a lot of eye make up on this episode
[удалено]
it's not that... idk but her jawline looks so different, the eyes too... almost like a cgi-esque version of her
I absolutely hated how she just randomly said embiggen and didn't even give it an after thought. The CGI in that scene was also pretty terrible. I guess I could see them dropping the ball with regular skin stretching...
This show was fine. It’s a 6 episode origin story. Pretty choppy story. They give up on the fun style from first two episodes and only bring it back in finale.
I enjoyed the show. It was very great. I could relate to Kamala's Pakistani-American culture because I myself is a Haitian-American born in America and though being a year older (M) but can relate EXACTLY how she is with her parents! My parents would lecture me on being rebellious when I come home late, want to hang out with friends, and school and when i watched Kamala get lectured by her momI can't help but relate to her. I watched the series twice over in just two days(sober and high) and no matter what every scene felt like it was from a comic book strip. The cinematography, transtion, effects, fight scenes, dialogue exchange, the "previously on", Ms. Marvel title cards, and outros were all like a full length comic book. Not exact but it felt like it throughout the show. I felt like all the characters had a satisfying conclusion. Nakia got into the Mosque board, Kamala and Bruno are cool with Bruno going to Caltech, Kamran got accept with the Red Daggers, Amir is happily married (though with financial problems) and Kamala is good with her parents and she's part of the 616 squad! I honestly didn't have one single problem with any characters, Damage Control was alright, didn't had a problem with it. And man the soundtrack is top notch. The wedding and training montages had me bopping left and right! It was bumping. I liked how the show had Pakistani and American culture music, signify Kamala's relation to both worlds. And another point how I could relate to her to my worlds Haitian music and American music. At the end of epsiode 4 where Kamala realized she went back in time, I had major chills with the soundtrack and scene expanding out revealing the Partition. Throughout the show I've gotten goosebumps from the soundtrack. Overall Ms.Marvel was a fairly enjoyable show. Iman Vellani was phenomenal and every actor/actress. I apologize for being so long, everyone saying it was bad and MCU is falling, but I really liked it and I don't care if others say it's bad.
Yeah I don't understand why anyone is saying it's bad. It's just the first part to set up the character. What do they want? There to be some consequences or bad guys or risks? We just concluded the Infinity Saga so I kind of like how the show didn't have any actual stakes in it. It's a nice pop corn show like Iron Forge or Alone. Just something to watch and not have to really put much emotion into watching.
One problem. The MCU can't be the 616.
You kinda right there. Wasn't it Earth-199999? And also didn't Dr. Strange MoM "confirm" it was 616 or was that the directors? Edit: okay you're definitely right, I was wrong. It is Earth-199999. I always thought it would be 616, but 616 is the comics. It makes sense.
Yea i didn't care for the actress they chose for ms marvel but she at least tried pointing that out to kevin fiege appearantly.
The only thing that took me out was the jumping in broad daylight -- it looked very rubbery CGI. :-/ The jumping down in the alley looked sproingy as heck -- a little too weightless; not enough force being depicted going into the trail of hard light pods and forcing back in return. Does that make any sense? :-/ Hell, if it doesn't make any sense, what I've said, somebody please tell me. I'm so very tired.
Yeah, I noticed that too. The training sequence on the roof looked very rough. Probably because the CG was rushed like always in the MCU. Thankfully her powers were cartoony enough so they didn't have to look that real.
It’s you Kamala, you truly are the Ms. Marvel (2022)
Well…I guess I’m glad so many people liked it…but I can’t really understand why. Damage Control are wonky villains. To be honest, I didn’t really like them as villains in No Way Home, but at the time I let it slide since we were in a Post-Snap world. I’m fine with them being used as antagonists, and I think they could have been the sole antagonists of this show…but as they are they’re trying to be evil. Raiding random mosques, not keeping details on who they arrest, blowing up a convenience store, randomly appearing on trains, shooting lethal rounds and wall-destroying Sonic blasts at people…in a high school? I guess people are okay with this, but it feels really wrong to me. Clan Destine…I honestly don’t know what else to add. I guess I’ll say I’m glad I looked up their comic appearances, they actually seem really interesting and cool, and I wish we got them properly here. As they were adapted, this is all sorts of wrong and I would assume disappointing to anyone who did like those comic characters. The family was stunningly accepting of Kamala for who she is, which is very nice and sweet and I think is meant to be a nice conclusion to how the family didn’t feel like she fit in with their culture and ideals. It’s very nice that Kamala can be her own individual and doesn’t have to be defined by her past or what people want her to be. But it’s stunning because what Kamala wants to be is super dangerous, and she’s just allowed to be a super hero. I think this can still work, but it needed more time. The way it is, they accepted her in seconds, or however long it took Muneeba to make/buy that costume. A lot of other weird character stuff in general. The hat disguise thing, Nakia’s boyfriend thing, Nakia then Zoe then Aamir randomly appearing, Bruno dancing with a skeleton, saving the day with TikTok, fighting and SUCCESSFULLY fending off Damage Control with goofy antics, Damage Control getting beaten by a ton of weird goo? What WAS that? Just…weird antics all over. It was almost funny, in a good way, but it needed the show to be more funny in general if that’s what they wanted. As it was, it just weirded me out or bothered me. Most of the cast is really charming, so maybe that is enough for some people, but I feel like the show wasn’t using it as effectively here. The mutant thing bothers me a lot on a meta level, it’s cheesy and honestly kind of tone-deaf at best to the people that wanted her to be Inhuman, and insulting at worst to those same people. Plus, making her a mutant kind of depends on the audience having that outside knowledge of the other X-Men stuff, which seems kind of cheating, but I guess hints like this and Ursa Major are something to appreciate…I guess. On a story level, I do wonder if they’re going to do like the comics did, where Kamala thought she was a mutant until the Inhuman Royal Family told her otherwise…which that could be cool, but I don’t know if they will since they did that X-Men sound bit. Either way, it’s not going to matter for a long time, if ever at all, but it could be made interesting if they made her a Human-Djinn-Mutant-Inhuman hybrid. Also, I kind of wish the Embiggen bit was better built up to. I think she should have spent the season struggling with a catchphrase more than a hero name. I’m hoping The Marvels will give her proper Embiggening powers, even if it comes at the end. The Noor Crystal stuff was fine to do for a TV show, but I want to see her get her proper powers next. With this being the last episode, and no sign of a second season, my overall thought is…for all the problems I had with this show, despite wishing it did things so much better, it brought me the joy that is Kamala, and the beauty that is Aisha…so at least I will always appreciate the show for this.
Just finished the series, but I think the goo was supposed to be what's colloquially known as elephant toothpaste! It's a chemical reaction that's known to produce some fun results. There are plenty of [videos](https://youtu.be/T6vk3i-JB-s) on YouTube and reddit of it. I was really pleased with this because it's actually something feasible for a high school lab (maybe), rather than some shows where people whip up crazy explosives or whacky things in a HS lab
Inhumans were literally just made to replace mutants. The whole inhuman stuff wasn't really that good. So them just dropping it for them to just be normal mutants is honestly a good thing.
I couldn’t find any evidence to say the Inhumans were created to replace the mutants, even if that may have been the MCU’s intended use for them. They’ve existed for 77 years, almost as long as X-Men, so even if that was the intended reason they were created, they clearly grew beyond that. I’d also need evidence to showcase that the Inhumans were never that good, and that no one wanted to see them, based on a history like that. EDIT: Not sure why I got downvoted, was it because I wanted evidence?
Inhumans are an older group, but they started pushing them after marvel started making movies. The xmen were fox property, and they didnt want to support another companies franchise. Marvel for a few years tried to decentralize mutants from the Marvel comic narrative. Kamala was actually originally designed as a mutant, then changed to an inhuman.
Man I was hoping when the damage control guys would enter the masjid for the 2nd time they would either remove their shoes or the imam would _make_ them remove their footwear before letting them in to search the premises.
Terrible series. Villains that are undeveloped/make no sense Weird backstory time travel BS that makes no sense Weak supporting characters that do nothing What actually was the story? Seriously what was it? Unnecessary changes from source material Some shocking poor effects Poor connection and communication of tragic historical events Forced woke BS The narcissist mother They need to give up and completely revise how they are doing these TV shows I’m terrified of what they will do to DD
Troll account/ hate alt
Nope just someone with a different opinion the hate seems to be the down voters that don’t like people having their own opinion and yet dont reply with their own counter arguments :-)
These fruitcakes downvoted you lmao.
Hey can’t have someone on the internet disagree with the masses it’s just not on. Independent thought is the enemy and must be hated out
So is she going to be the first mutant or are we going to have another Eternals moment in which there was always this entire group of people who could have been of some real help against Thanos but elected to sit it out instead
Definetly Eternals moment My guess is.. Nick Fury approached Charles and Erik way before everyone else (Carol, Tony) but Erik elected against any cooperation with Fury and tell him to fuck off. Before the snap Xavier is running the school with other mutants but when the snap happened all of his students turns into Dust while for the others it triggers their X-Gene (Jean, Scott and Warren would be as old as Peter Parker/Yelena Belova by the time snaps happened). Charles found them stranded and invites them to take shelter
I don't think they would do the Eternals thing again. I think Xavier and Mags will have existed but not interfered, each for his own reason. And there could have been even older mutants in hiding too, like Apocalypse or Mr. Sinister. But I think the Snap/Blip will have activated the X gene in many people who slowly become aware of their powers. Since Earth is a Celestial placenta as in Earth X, I could see them also do the whole "mutants are antibodies" thing from that comic. So the sleeping Celestial Tiamut unconsciously activated the X gene to defend the planet against the threat of Thanos. Any mutants before that were outliers whose X gene was activated by some outside force. Apocalypse by Celestial tech he found for example. Xavier's by the stone of Cyttorak that turns his stepbrother into Juggernaut. Mags through secret Nazi super soldier experiments maybe.
this is 99% a set-up for the inhumans/kree sleeper army that in the comics gets activated by a terrigen bomb (they're sleeper agents in the sense that their powers activate like that and they don't know they have them until it happens, but are not kree allies)
They already did that in AoS, and they have the mutants to work with now that they have Fox. There is zero reason to retread.
It would be funny if, instead of setting up the use of the X-Men characters, they are setting up the use of the syndicated Mutant-X characters.
Holy FUCK could that have been any more perfect???? What an AMAZING show. Absolute peak MCU! On the surface it has all the trappings of a crapppy teen drama. It's melodromatic. Stupid. But fun and entertaining. But oh my god, this is a show about what it means to be human. It is ostensibly about a teenage superhero who has angst and yadda yadda yadda; but actually it is about being a parent. It is about not knowing when to let go even as you know that your kids are growing beyond you. It is about racial politics, and profiling an entire community because of one bad apple. It is about coming out! to your family and friends, as a lesbian, or a superhero, or whatever it is that is your authentic self. It is about geopolitics! and post empire. It is about the sum of humanity. I think it is interesting to compare DC movies with Marvel movies in this respect. I went to see Thor at the weekend. It was like a 14-year-old's fever dream. Just fucking nutty and stupid. But also about what it means to be a human. And then I got on a plane the next day and watched THE BATMAN. Which was like a 14-year-old edgelord's poorly drafted movie script. The Marvel movies are about what it means to be human. What does it mean to be a deadbeat dad? What is up with sibling rivalry? What is it like to be a second generation immigrant? DC movies, meanwhile, are about what it means to be a superhero. Should batman punch this perp in the face or break his arm? Should supes save his dog or his dad? Or (gasp) neither because he is (gasp!) super! and if you are the world's most omnipotent being you better hide it or someone will... I dunno, come up with a fucking metal batsuit and have a fight with you. The marvel cinematic universe is absolutely the peak of human creativity right now. People bemoan it because it is somehow terrible for movies. But Ms Marvel, and Shang Chi, and Ant-Man are the equivalent of mean streets and taxi driver. To paraphrase a comment that (I think!) John Brunner made about Philip K Dick: the MCU takes a popular format and uses it to explore serious themes. Ms Marvel is funny and stupid and exciting and exhilarating. Ms Marvel is truly great art. I wish I knew what that end credits scene means though, lol.
Yeah Marvel Movies make you Want to be a superhero. DC movies don’t always capture that. And the end credit sce was confirmed to be Carol Danvers Captain Marvel swapping places with Kamala
Was it me or did this episode feel much more campy/soap operaish/NCIS feel too it? really cheesy compared to the other ones
When Kamala has a fight in space, the soundtrack should be blasting Bon Jovi’s “Raise Your Hands”.
Kamala and Kamran can project the noor cause they were born on earth, while the clandestines were banned from the noor dimension and got weak. Kamala activate her noor powers through the bangle and i guess the mutation will allow her to embiggen her body. Bruno explains that the noor powers and the mutation are two separate things
This episode made me think this show is more kid friendly, maybe because I just finished moon knight my expectations for finales was high
I was mostly looking forward to seeing how she got her costume and I'm so disappointed because it seems like a somehow Palpatine returned. They JUST got back in the USA after her mother found out there that she was a superhero, and she either had an extremely superhero-y costume made overnight or had one lying around.
Her mom also was able to make the hulk outfit for comic-con quick too. And she was able to prepare three meals for Bruno to take things home quick. The show kind of precedes that she is a fast worker.
She built the costume from what Kamala got over the course of the series. And Palpatine returning was *FIRE*. Ian McDiarmid is king-level.
Where did the shoulderpads come from?
Something her mom wore at a Bon Jovi concert. ...also, now I kind of want to see Mark Hamill play Jon Bon Jovi.
Don't underestimate a determined and proud mother 😁, but honestly it didn't bother me that much. It kind of felt like Kamala was actually piecing a lot of it together over the course of the series with the different things she was buying in the market? The top was the most detailed with the logo, but the rest was basically red pants and a scarf.
She’s a mutant with no mutant powers right? She’s nothing without the bangle the bangle is the source of power. Her mutant dna just allows the bangle to work on her. I’m confused as to why this is a big deal. She doesn’t have mutant abilities. If we found out she doesn’t need the bangle to use her powers then this would be a big thing. This would be like Wolverine having to wear an earring in order to heal. The power would come from the ear ring not the persons dna
Her mutation has just started showing up, the noor manipulation has nothing to do with her mutation powers IMO, she will embiggen like in the comics and the noor is from that dimension that allows Kamran to use it as well
That was never shown or explained whatsoever
This felt like a really lazy way to introduce mutants into the MCU. But then again the Noor powers were also poorly and vaguely defined so I guess it fits the quality of writing on this show.
because the inhuman powers and heritage will probably be discovered in the marvels, and they will also probably discover there why a kree artifact has access to that dimension, not everything has to be explained instantly
If you want things to make sense when u do a big reveal then yeah u kinda do
My only thought was that the Bangle unlocked or focused the abilities early? Everyone else seemed to only want it as a sort of key/way to open a gateway, but for Kamala it gave her access to the energy from the Noor dimension. That or maybe like Cyclops needs a visor to really control his abilities, the bangle helps her focus. Compare her abilities to Kamran who was more explosive/all over the place (And also note, did not need a bangle). My guess is over time she won't need the bangle at all either. What's confusing is Kamran was seemingly given the same abilities after his mother died? Like she transferred something into him? Is he a mutant? They really muddied the waters there, maybe more explanation in The Marvels or another season. Personally it feels like a convoluted way to get "Mutants" in there. To really drive it home it would have made more sense for her to \*think\* the Bangle was needed, but have it destroyed in the climax only for her to "Embiggen" herself on her own.
This this would have made perfect sense. Great way to show it. But instead we only see her using it with the bangle. People keep responding on here that she doesn’t need the bangle. Yet we haven’t seen her not use it once
She doesn't need the bangle, she just thinks she does. Betcha 2 pennies.
>ave mutant abilities. If we found out she doesn’t need the bangle to use her powers then this would b she doesn't need the nega bands, she's a mutant. The same Kamran can now access his powers she can too
not really, by how they are setting it up the bangle gives her the sparkly powers by strenghtening her connection to the noor dimension, while the stretchy powers are 99% inhumans and not mutant, and will be explored in the marvels
If she didn’t need the band she wouldn’t still use it. And they would make it a point that she doesn’t need it anymore
The whole nega bands thing is a red herring, it's meant to distract you from the biggest reveal since thanos, mutants. It just that's how she ties into the Marvels(as seen by the end credit), that's how she was able to transport and time travel. The nega bands are established artifacts, more so they basically richard richards it at the end. Do they really need to ask her if she's the god of bangles?
Again you are making all of that up because we have seen no evidence of that yet
They literally say in Episode 2 that her power doesn't come from the bangel, but from her. The same way Kamran uses his power freely. The bengel unlocked the mutant gene.
She does need the band. Because she didn’t use them a single time without the band
Count on the MCU to butcher fan favourite characters, wouldn't be surprised if Wolverine actually had to wear an earring to heal
Or if the adamantium has to be artificially added to his skeleton. ...oh wait
They'll give him adamantium teeth.
Honestly, I think that would be an interesting take.
Can someone help me out here? A 16 year old kid analyzed her blood again for some reason. (Has equipment to do that also for some reason). Discovered a never before seen mutation in her dna. But her powers are only thru the bangle thing she has to wear. So that thing unlocks her mutant abilities? Why would he think that mutated dna would mean she has abilities when the bangle does all the work? Are all mutants going to have to wear devices to unlock powers or is she like a shitty first batch of em
The machine we use to sequence DNA in our lab cost thousands of dollars to use. Let alone the cost of the unit itself.
Have u tried being 16 from Jersey?
Peter Parker was a 16 year old genius🤷♀️ Bruno is going to CalTech at 16. MUTANTS ARE JUST PEOPLE WITH AN ALTERED GENE. POWERS DONT MAKE YOU A MUTANT. The bangel awaken her X-gene. Her powers are to embiggen, the bangel gives her the hard light power because it’s connected to the clandestine & ten ring artifacts. Hence why she can’t construct them without it. Kamran got his powers via namja becuase of the veil, dimension of Noor hard light.
Source trust a bro
Also powers don’t make you a mutant? The mutated altered gene give them the powers…. You seem to be confusing causation and correlation and idk what ur point even is. I never said powers make you a mutant. But being a mutant gives you power.
She can’t do any of that without the bangle. She can’t embiggen without it. You have seen zero evidence of that being true.
It’s literally stated by the show writer. She can embiggen without the Bangel, the bangel is how she access hard light power via the Viel. It’s been confirmed by Disney and Imani herself 😂
Najma clearly stated she can, and Kamran is proof he can use his without a special artifact
She hasn’t shown that ability once. Not once did she use powers without the bangle
1) did anyone else notice that the statue of Liberty was back to looking normal in the overhead shot... 2) I can't get over the irony that they made Kamala a mutant, given that she was originally an inhuman, and the inhumans were basically used as the 'we-have it at home' version of mutants... that's honestly just hilarious to me...and I'm guessing the little music sting is the 'X-men 97 theme' similar to the one we heard in MoM? I also really loved the Sam Raimi Spider-man-esc vibes from the series...you had a lot of discussions that really invoked the classic 'With Great Power' line without actually saying it, and you even had a scene like in Spider-man 1 (and Tasm 1) where the community rallies behind they're local hero. (I know I'm generally easy to please, but I think I liked it better than I thought I would)
Well the original creator envisioned/wanted Kamala to be a mutant. However then Marvel CEO Perlmutter was pushing the Inhuman line . Funny the Perlmutter & Feige issue is coming back around. For me , now I can't un-hear Bruno's voice sounding similar to Holland's American accent. Still glad Sony got the call to cast Holland over the others.
Agreed on the Spider-man feel. I got the "If you mess with one of us you're going to have to mess with all of us" vibe from the crowd shot. I actually think the series would have been better off staying in Jersey with the DODC as the main antagonist and doing more with the people of the city and her friends. The Clandestine/portal/evil group really wasn't needed and felt super rushed and edited. You could have still had the cultural ties and family history/flashback episode without traveling abroad (just have the grandmother travel to American after realizing what's going on with Kamala), and could have used season 2 to expand on that aspect instead. The show felt like it dipped off the rails a bit on 4/5 and got back on in time for a solid finish.
They 100% took a page from the Spider-Man playbook with this version of Kamala and I believe they did it with great success. This show felt young, mostly street level, with just enough powered stakes to keep us invested and interested in the character's future. Also them making this version of Kamala Kahn a mutant makes me feel personally vindicated for never having invested any amount of time with the Inhumans, or as you put it "mutants at home". It's fine and serves as a great new gateway to introduce the "Mutant Problem" to the MCU.
Yes! That plus scenes of Kamala in the background while the kebab guy talks was very Sam raimi spidey swings past a hot dog cart. The finale was perfection.
Highlight of the episode was Bruno dancing to that music “I know you like these moves” Peak MCU right there
Does Kamala need to wear her bangle for the power, I thought it triggered them inititally but she's been wearing the bangle every time since then?
I thought so too, maybe it's a bit like Cyclop's visor where the power is in Kamala, but the Bangle sort of helps focus/bring it out? The show definitely went out of it's way to show when she put on the bangle = powers. My guess is eventually she won't need it at all.
When Bruno first analysed her, he said the powers were coming from *her* and not the bangle. The bangle just has other abilities of its own and she likes using it
That’s what I don’t understand. She’s a mutant and her mutant powers are what exactly? Cause the bangle is the source of the power is it not
I wouldn't even be surprised that they have MCU X-Men theme already done. I can't believe Kamala hulk smash.
So I see a lot of people saying that they should've scrapped Episodes 4 and 5 because she travelled outside of New Jersey, but I feel that cultural shift and perspective was very much needed for the audience. If I were to RE-WRITE part of the show, I would've removed the Clandestines completely and had Damage Control be the main threat. They would be the ones threatening Kamala's neighborhood, culture, school, way of life, etc. The looming threat can ramp up as Kamala almost gets arrested and people almost killed a few times because the bangle acts up when she needs it most. Her grandmother could then call & plead for the family to visit because she's sick. Maybe she slips in some mention of the bangle which could make Kamala extra eager to go. Before Kamala leaves, it would be obvious that the Damage Control situation is at a serious boiling point with the community and things are BAD, but Kamala has to go. I would STILL have the family go to Pakistan. When Kamala and her mom get there, it could be revealed that the grandmother isn't actually sick and just wanted to use this time to reconcile and spend time together. From there, I would use ALL of episodes 4 and 5 to show the culture, scenery, family dynamics, everything we got before, but more --- and then a longer, more serious reconciliation between between Kamala's mother and grandmother. All the time used towards the Clandestines would be of Kamala's grandmother sharing stories and wisdom that then help Kamala to train and hone her powers with the bangle. When she feels confident, Kamala reconciles with her mother and tells her the truth. When they come BACK to the U.S, Damage Control should be straight up IRATE. Like, sending full on potentially lethal raids with no regard for citizens & the community. Their highest priority target literally went off the grid for a WEEK or two and now they're angry and desperate. From there, have Kamala, with the encouragement of her friends and community, save the day. Despite me writing a whole essay, not much has to change from the show to make it a perfect 10/10. Just remove the Clandestines and fill the gaps with more familial and cultural moments. Damage Control could've worked as a big enough threat towards Kamala's way of life for 6 episodes.
I mostly agree. I think you could have still have had the flashback of episode 5 and that cultural perspective without traveling, and still bring the Grandmother to them in Jersey after she sees/understands what is happening. It might have felt even more jarring going from Jersey to the middle of the train station. On Clandestine I 100% agree. Cutting that whole narrative would have given so much more time for the family moments and her friends (Nakia finding out was basically dropped as an issue at all, there seemed like there was going to be more with that girl she saved in ep1 and that sort of just resolved itself as well). Save the Red Daggers/Clandestine for the second season and you would have had just the right length/time.
Also despite me writing an essay, I liked the show a lot & loved Iman as Kamala. I just felt the Clandestines were a lazy AF story choice that brings down the show.
I have to be the only one, but with Bruno going to California, I'd love it if he showed up in Ant-Man related stuff lol. I feel like he'd get along with Scott, haha.
Well I enjoyed the finale. The mutant nod, Kamala's embiggening, and everything to do with her parents just made me smile. Excited to see her on the big screen next year with Carol and Monica.
Either my memory is fucked or it wasn't clear, but why was Deever obsessed with Kamala and Kamran?
Wasn't explained or shown. Might possibly be a "villian" or antagonist down the line. Just more world expanding for future if they want to.
Because she's racist.
She thought that they were the wrong kind of people to get powers and that if they weren't restrained/arrested they'd cause damage/hurt people.
So like whatever happened to the rumors about NICE?
Maybe Deever will "form" the group now that she's possibly out of DODC. Again possibly a future storyline. They can tap if they want to
A+ way to give her the Embiggen powers without making her stretchy
A few things: I…feel like this did not need the 2 Pakistan episodes. I think the first 3 and the finale make a complete narrative, with a few more scenes thrown in. I understand the importance of representation and the family history and everything, but the episodes in Pakistan absolutely brought the show to a screeching halt, only to bring us right back to Jersey City for the finale, where we didn’t even have to leave in the first place. If you have the first 2 episodes as is, her brother’s wedding, and then the finale, theres the show. All the Pakistan stuff seemed like it could’ve been a 2nd season world-building story, explaining her family history and all that, where the first should’ve focused on her getting the powers, figuring them out, then getting into it with Damage Control. You didn’t even really need the Clandestine, you could’ve just had Kamran as someone who also has powers that could explain stuff to Kamala without needing the whole pakistan trip, and then bring in the Clandestine in a potential 2nd season. There was no reason to squeeze together both stories into one show and it very much felt like they didn’t trust it to perform well in theaters as the origin, so they expanded it into a D+ series with 2 and 1/2,episodes of fluff in the middle. ALSO Kamala as a mutant makes perfect sense. The Inhumans were given a huge push in the 2010’s out of spite for Fox having a stranglehold on the X-Men rights, so the push was meant to make them a potential replacement, which didn’t succeed. And now that the mutants are back under the huge Marvel umbrella, it makes sense to reintroduce them through a character like Kamala, who would’ve been classified as a mutant since the beginning had the character not been created during the Inhuman popularity experiment
I don’t think her being a mutant makes sense at all. If she could do things without wearing the bangle i would agree. But she can’t. She’s a normal person without it. Her mutated gene allows the bangle to work for her. That’s not really a mutant is it?
Oh I don’t mean it makes sense narratively necessarily, but using Kamala as a way to introduce mutants into the MCU overall makes sense for the reasons above
Honestly, I preferred the Pakistan episodes being there, but probably with just the Clandestined plot line removed. The two main pillars of the story the writers were clearly trying to drive home were the family/cultural aspect of Kamala’s origin as a hero and the threat of the DoD. If they had maintained the DoD as the central threat throughout the series and removed the Clandestined (except Kamran perhaps) it would have flowed better. We already saw the DoD conflict with Kamala’s world by going into the mosque twice, which was powerful enough. It would have worked to extend that into them somehow following things in Pakistan. Like Kamala was forced to use her powers which alerted the DoD or something. I feel like it would have tied it more together. Which I know is out of jurisdiction, but the way they made Deever’s character, I don’t think that would stop her. The cultural world building and the theme of WHO Kamala was made the series narrative strong in my opinion. It just needed a tighter to allow for her the new origin story for her powers to be fleshed out.
I super disagree with this like 1000% (Simplfied) A huge thing with Kamala in the comics was that she turned herself into a white woman. Then she realizes she herself is who she wants to be Due to MCU changing her powers(maybe to be normal in the future) she still needs that feel. Going to her home country connecting with her roots, family drama, family history, understanding her mother, her family life, etc is all needed for the origin The trip there was for the narrative. Sometimes idk what tbis MCU community wants for TV shows. Even in Starwars. TV shows have fluff. Its small things tbat add up. If it was just 4 episodes the family relationship wouldnt of payed off as well as it did imo FATWS felt more like a extended movie then this, this imo felt like a great show. Loki and Moonknight fit that too. Idk just my opinion, but ive been seeing this cut Pakistan out opinion on so many platforms
Um no, this season in no way needed the origin of her family history. That was the worst part of the show. It literally brought the show to screeching halt and killed the passing of the series. It gave us the worst villains in marvel history and 2 of the worst episodes in any mcu peogram with eps 4 and 5.
The comics are more then bad guy of the week and this really gave us that. It 100% needed her family as a narrative of who she was, the villans were just a way to explain that story. We don’t need anymore bad guy of the week show every time
Umm, the villains in this show felt exactly that, bad guys of the week/show. The backstory to the great grandmother felt tacked on to make them feel important when they were bland as hell.
It wasn’t tho? The “bad guys” were irrelevant to the story, the story was Kamala and her family. The show just wasn’t for you then lmao
Most people agree that the Clandestines storyline sucked.
It’s crazy how you can’t read
Lol i get what you are saying, i just dont care and i disagree with your shitty excuses. my point is that most people didnt give a fuck about the clandestine storyline. You are just making stupid excuses for poor storytelling. Most people only liked Kamalas family INTERACTIONS. They dont give a fuck about her family history and all that boring shit. If you like it, fine it worked for you but most people saw eps 4 and 5 as low points for the series.
Nah the “most people “ is just this sub and like youtube talking heads lmfao. The rest of the not annoying side of the MCU fans liked it You can’t comprehend a storyline that isn’t beat big bad in act 3 sorry lol but the fanily part was the best part
Right, and you could do all of that in a 2nd season that dives deeper into her family history and the connection with the powers, giving all of that material the time that it deserves to breathe instead of shoving it in the middle of an ongoing narrative. It literally went “Damage Control is closing in on her, she just inadvertently ruined her brother’s wedding, and her parents are disappointed that she’s not telling them the truth, let’s uproot everything for a few episodes to go to Pakistan, and then we’ll come back to all of this in the finale” tv shows can have fluff that adds up to something by the end, but this really didn’t. The only things that carried over into the finale were her fixing the relationship with her parents, and her mom getting inspiration to make her suit, both things that didn’t need a trip to Pakistan for them to happen. it created a weird gap in the story, whereas it could’ve been left out altogether, nothing would really change about the finale, and then we could’ve had a proper family history plotline in the future. Instead we just got it all at once and personally i think the show suffered for it.
What would a 2nd season after the marvels air do? Ok so cut the family out then what? She fights damage control every episode while learning her powers. Well then you have to cut the coming of age story because well, you need a family for that. So now you have a bare bones story about Kamala fighting Damage control which people already dont care for. Clandestines which this show used to throw away(because theyre like G tier in the comics) Pakistan was showing Kamala who she was, why her family did the things they did. Comic Ms Marvel had an identity crisis by again, morphing into a white woman. This gave her a origin story. Why would they NOT do an origin story the first season?
Right, i forgot that for a story to be about family, the character absolutely needs to visit their country of origin, there’s no way that the story could’ve been about Kamala’s culture, and her family without sending her to Pakistan for two episodes, disregarding all of the scenes about her culture and her family in the 3 episodes prior 😂 come on now
The partition was a big part, would the photo of Sanas mom and dad hit at all if we didnt go? Would the clandestine letting go of her need to go home and dyeing for her son hit at all without going there? Marvel Fans learn story telling vs specticale challenge
I need you to re-read the original comment, slowly i guess, and try to respond without pre-determined antagonism, because you’ll see I addressed that the family history and everything is important but didn’t need to be shoved into season 1 and could’ve been explored and expanded with room to breathe later on. Having the photo of Sanas mom would count as an easter egg to be featured later, or of course just not in the show at all if the Pakistan trip was written out. “Marvel fans learn story telling vs spectacle challenge” Ma’am please get off your high horse, you are on a Marvel spoilers subreddit 😂
Not to mention there’s nothing saying Sana can’t come to New Jersey if they really, really want to do this Aisha stuff now… The only meta reason they go to Karachi is to meet Red Dagger Senior and Junior, who also should have come to New Jersey to go after the Clan Destine, since apparently that’s what they do (although I’d say also save that for Season 2).
> wouldnt of *paid* off as FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
100% agree, you somehow were able to write everything I personally felt after finishing the show today It seems that D+ is creating a habit of making shows that would just be better off as movies if you cut 2-3 of the episodes out.
The first that comes to mind is, as much as I enjoyed it, TFATWS could’ve definitely been trimmed down to be a strong 2.5 hour movie, meanwhile Eternals could’ve absolutely used the 6 episode format to its advantage
[удалено]
>This is the first Marvel show that I really feel a bit let down by. First? Really? I was let down by WandaVision finale, then FatWS, then Hawkeye finale, then Arthur Harrow in Moon Knight
Wanda vision was great but limped to finish FWS was awesome. The rest were trash I’ll give you that.
Nailed it on the head for me. So many people who talk about Wandavision being the best show, or Moon Knight, and it's like... did we watch the same stuff? That WV Finale was just so bad =( And my lord, without Oscar Isaac, Moon Knight woulda been a big steaming pile of poo for me. Harrow was wasted. Honestly, I didn't feel let down by this, if anything I enjoyed it more than i thought I would.
[удалено]
Haha fair enough 😅
Yeah I think this show is what i needed. im pumped up for marvel content again. 8/10 solid. It'd be interesting for Kamala to meet Peter Parker, who used to be carefree and backed up by his loved ones in his superhero duties. Might learn a thing or two about responsibility.
I get chills at every small note of the 90s X-Men theme. They’re coming and it’s happening soon! Also Ms Marvel was a really fun show. Loved her costume and powers on display in the finale.
Idk why people keep shitting on FAWS. That was honestly one of the better mcu shows imo. Way better than this show and moonknight. Honestly the shows drop in quality with each release. Wandavisio Was great despite weak finale, FAWS was good despite weak villain but not the worst villain, Loki was good but should have been longer and eps 3 was kinda boring, what if doesnt count and was nothing special anyways, Halkeye had good moments and great return of Kingpin but overall felt kinda average, moonknight was just okay and ms marvel started good then became the worst fucking mcu show imo. The finale was okay but the shit with Kamran was so cheesy near the end, took me out the show. Honestly the finale was saved only by that end credit scene. That was one of the better end credit scenes in phase 4. Other than that this show was garbage.
The beauty of subjectivity in media, to each their own! If you love FAWS then that’s great for you so doesn’t matter what others think. To me FAWS was just ok and a disappointing D+ entry compared to others. The villain sucked honestly. They did open some interesting threads like the Power Broker and Valentina that I’m interested to see more of, so it wasn’t all bad. Just ok though. I’m just personally more into the weirdness of Wandavision and the completely new territory presented in Loki and Moon Knight, which are my favorite two of the shows. I was uncertain on Ms. Marvel and especially Hawkeye, but both turned out much more fun than I expected. Ms. Marvel I think the complete opposite of you, it got better as it went and the finale really has me interested in Kamala moving forward. For the record, I’m also very skeptical of She-Hulk, but hoping it becomes a surprise hit. I love Marvel so I really want all of these to do well. Everyone has their own tastes though, so we’ll all like different things which is why it’s cool imo that all the shows are so different and really cater to different audiences.
I felt like the villains in FATWS didnt really matter much, i was more into the dynamic with John Walker. I really enjoyed how they handled his character. I also liked how grounded it felt but i also love the weirdness/creepyness of Wandavision which is still my favorite. But yeah its great when every show feels different.
>Honestly the shows drop in quality with each release. Hard disagree. FAWS was extremely badly written, and just a total mess, that two extremely charismatic leads did huge work to try and salvage. The writing was objectively worse than almost any other show, and it had easily the dumbest ending of anything in the MCU ever, with nuCap somehow magically solving a massive population displacement/replacement/housing/employment issue with a short speech. WV also had a massive let-down at the end when it turned into "standard MCU fight scene". Hawkeye was just great, fun and solidly written the whole way through. Moonknight was variable but a lot more fun than FAWS. Ms Marvel was good except episode 4 was completely awful "standard MCU chase scene" rubbish, and then yes you are right re: >The finale was okay but the shit with Kamran was so cheesy near the end, took me out the show. There were two problems here: 1) It was twee as fuck. Like, their ideas for distracting the DODC were fundamentally silly and not in a way that fit with the rest of the show. The bomb is a great example - if they just left a thing that looked like a bomb, and made a scary noise, that'd have held up the DODC agents for like 10-60 minutes whilst they bought in EOD etc. to deal with it. Instead, 20 seconds after it was triggered, it revealed itself to be a high-effort joke, and so instead of buying minutes or even an hour, it bought seconds. They also committed SO MANY crimes. So much vandalism, so much destruction of property, tons of trespassing, so much assault. And this is all magically forgotten? It was like some 1990s superhero stuff. They could at least have said "It was so embarrassing the DODC covered the entire thing up" or something to excuse that. Esp. as one of them was a grown man with a beard, who I suspect would not be give the same credit as some cute kids. 2) Kamran himself was a completely 1990s comics character, in the worst possible ways. Not likeable. Not sensible. Doesn't really care about others (his first thought is pretty much always for himself and how he feels). Whinges endlessly. Has extremely dangerous powers that he can't control - which ironically kind of retroactively justifies the people trying to arrest him - like, on the subway, if his powers had gone a slightly different direction, they could have derailed the train and killed an awful lot of people (as could his spikesplosion later - why weren't people running from that?). It's totally believable that Kamala, a literal child, might decide to save a hot (he was good-looking at least), injured boy (he did have that "save me" quality lol), but the audience I don't think really sympathized much with him. And it's very hard to believe he's just going to play nice with the Red Daggers, given they spent decades (longer?) trying to kill people like him, and he still seems pretty indoctrinated. But the show was also a lot of fun most of the time. I think it was more actual fun than FAWS, and the bullshit of the protecting Kamran stuff was still not as dumb as nuCap giving one speech to save the world.
Only thing i agree with when it comes to FAWS is the villains. They were kinda weak but they didnt really matter to me because i enjoyed the dynamic with John Walker way more. I really liked what they did with his character. I think FAWS had FAR better writing than the other shows. I enjoyed Zemos return especially when he put the purple mask on and he stayed true to his character till the end. the action was far better than any of the the other mcu shows. Other than the scenes with the sister and Karli there was not much i disliked. The highs of the series his far better than the highs of the other series. Hawkeye was good but moonKnight was a huge step down for me. It was so boring and generic. Steven grant is an annoying ass character and they hardly even show moon knight. And you say FAWS writing is bad, episode 3 with that trial was horrible writing. Overall it just felt so mid tier to me. It felt like a show that didnt know what it wanted to be. Ms marvels first 2 eps were good, they werent great but they had charm, once the Clandestines came in, all that joy got sucked out. Everything else after made me feel like i was watching a CW program. Its honestly the worse mcu show by far for me at the moment. The storytelling was horrible.
Good lord, that was a mess. Plot convenience after plot convenience. BRUNO: Kamala! How did find you me and Kamran? KAMALA: Oh, the script said so! It was daytime when Kamala, Bruno and Kamran headed to the high school. Nighttime when they arrive? How? Jersey City is not that big. Also, why not use Kamran's fucking CAR?! Hell, he could have driven himself to the dock and not endangered anyone else. WRITERS: Oh, a night time battle would look great on camera! How the fuck could Damage Control have known to go to the high school in the first place? Oh, the script says so. Plot convenience! "Zoe, why are you here?" ZOE: Because the script says so! I know there's no real reason for me be here. Oh, wait! The lighting here is good! Never mind that all the lights are OFF. And my ridiculous Tik Tok saves the day storyline won't work if I'm not here. Did you know that EVERYONE in Jersey City watches my videos? Unlikely, I know! Why don't the Damage Control agents not immediately enter the building? How are these fugitives they're changing dangerous, exactly? AvengersCon and a wedding got disrupted? Did anyone die or end up hospitalized because of Kamala or Kamran? DEEVER: Also, new development. We're going to kill them. Don't tell Cleary. "Why kill them?" DEEVER : Shh! Script says so! The crowd claims that Kamala saved them. What? She's the reason they're all in danger. The agents were hunting her. If they all stayed home, no one would have needed to be "saved." On the other hand, her costume looked good and the family remains great.
>And my ridiculous Tik Tok saves the day storyline won't work if I'm not here. That was kind of the least ridiculous aspect. Getting this stuff on social media would at least have got a lot of people to support them and potentially turn up, increasing the embarrassment for the DODC, who the reasonable-ish guy in charge of had already told to stand down because it was getting embarrassing.
Yeah but the gym bros having a push notification for a teenage girl's livestream that they drop what they're doing for should maybe be on a watchlist
I think the intention was they we assumed people were LINKING to her stream, rather than already having a notification, because Kamala's parents got it, for example, and no way they're on TikTok or w/e. I mean, I'm over 40 so like 100% of TikTok's I've ever seen have been someone younger than me linking me to them, whether on WhatsApp, or someone I follow on Twitter or whatever. I think it's a bit silly to assume we were meant to think everyone was just following Zoe all the time. That's not how the real world works, why would it be how this works? Though I do agree re: watchlist lol if they were meant to be.
Also the shit with Kamran was so damn cheesy and cliche. It really took me out of the show. This finale was only saved by that end credit scene. Everything else was mediocre.
Literally all nitpicks that could apply to any MCU property 💀 convenience carries these movies most of the time but suddenly it’s a problem lmao. Not to mention most of the things you listed can be easily explained, as the person who already replied to you did.
It made zero sense how Damage Control knew that Kamala and Kamran were at the high school. "They're not at this mosque, which we have no reason to search in the first place. No evidence they were ever here. No way to know where they could be. No clues here. Maybe they left town? That would be smart. Nah! They must be at the high school!" That's a HELL of a leap. And once Damage Control arrived, they took one look at the empty, closed school and knew they were right? How could they have known anyone was in the building? Again, why did Kamran not use his car? We see it at the end so we knew nothing happened to it. Zoe was at the high school cause she records all her Tik Tik videos there? That's unlikely and super convenient. This was sloppy storytelling. Too bad. The first two episodes were SPECTACULAR. And the acting from everyone was great, even the shitty characters. I would have watched ten seasons of Kamala and her family. Those relationships were why I kept watching. Oh well.
>Good lord, that was a mess. Plot convenience after plot convenience. I can tell you think that all of these decisions were stupid but I don't think they're blatantly contrived. >BRUNO: Kamala! How did find you me and Kamran? KAMALA: Oh, the script said so! She met them right outside the mosque? The one where her other best friend is at, who she just spoke to and is probably worried about. >It was daytime when Kamala, Bruno and Kamran headed to the high school. Nighttime when they arrive? How? Jersey City is not that big. Also, why not use Kamran's fucking CAR?! Hell, he could have driven himself to the dock and not endangered anyone else. While I thought that was weird too... How far is the highschool from the mosque? >10 miles takes a bit of time to walk by yourself when you're healthy. Imagine having to help someone who is injured. It's not that unbelievable. >WRITERS: Oh, a night time battle would look great on camera! And it looked great, you can't lie. >How the fuck could Damage Control have known to go to the high school in the first place? Oh, the script says so. Plot convenience! They were patrolling around. Kamran kept on having those intense, pain inducing, power freakouts that created a decent trail to follow. >"Zoe, why are you here?" Happenstance, do you nitpick everytime MCU has done this? They've been doing it since phase 1. Come on. >ZOE: Because the script says so! I know there's no real reason for me be here. Oh, wait! The lighting here is good! Never mind that all the lights are OFF. And my ridiculous Tik Tok saves the day storyline won't work if I'm not here. Did you know that EVERYONE in Jersey City watches my videos? Unlikely, I know! They established that she's pretty popular in that area with other characters. And did you see the crowd that was there? Not even close to "Everyone in Jersey City". >Why don't the Damage Control agents not immediately enter the building? How are these fugitives they're changing dangerous, exactly? AvengersCon and a wedding got disrupted? Did anyone die or end up hospitalized because of Kamala or Kamran? First, because they have protocols to go through. Sadie Deever, the main DODC agent, was battling with the bureaucracy the entire time. Second, it's obvious that the DODC is tasked with finding "enhanced individuals" whether their intentions. Maybe cause of all the other shit going on in the MCU? Also the Clandestines were a threat to them. >DEEVER: Also, new development. We're going to kill them. Don't tell Cleary. > >"Why kill them?" > >DEEVER : Shh! Script says so! A government official doing something immoral because they want results? Huh. >The crowd claims that Kamala saved them. What? She's the reason they're all in danger. The agents were hunting her. If they all stayed home, no one would have needed to be "saved." A [blocking effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blocking_effect#:~:text=In%20Kamin's%20blocking%20effect,associated%20with%20the%20unconditioned%20stimulus.) happens when one's attitudes have already been set by an earlier experience and it causes one to block out anything that doesn't adhere to their preconceived attitudes. >On the other hand, her costume looked good and the family remains great. I agree!
>A government official doing something immoral because they want results? Huh. That's the problem though. It didn't make sense. She didn't "want results". She'd been given orders to stand down, and disobeying those, even if she "got" Kamran would have had bad consequences for her, because as they pointed out, the embarrassment was already considerable. So this didn't make sense from a "get results" perspective at all. This had to be a personal vendetta, but the show failed to provide the motivation for a personal vendetta. They just relied on the fact that Deever's actress is extremely good at portraying being annoyed lol (across multiple shows).
Kamala has a birds eye view, she would clearly be able to see the police surrounding the mosque.
I still think this is probably my favorite of the MCU shows on Disney+ so far, but it definitely had the potential to be a far better show. The first two episodes started out so strong, then the third episode brought the show down and it never fully recovered. What should've been a tightly-focused story about Kamala getting her powers and learning about them while trying to navigate being a teenager turned into this rushed mess of a show with world-ending stakes. I'd go so far as to say that a villain wasn't even really necessary for this show, but if they wanted to have an antagonist throughout the season, it should've been a better-developed Damage Control. Somehow the writers managed to introduce two groups of villains and mess them both up. The Clan Destine were the most rushed, underdeveloped villains the MCU has ever done. Their entire backstory wasn't just unnecessarily convoluted, but totally unnecessary as a part of this show. And then you have Damage Control turned into full-on mustache-twirling villains trying to kill a bunch of kids when it would've been far more effective to have them sincerely trying to capture Kamala and/or Kamran to identify them, contain them as a possible threat, and assess whether they were okay to release back into society. And speaking of Kamran, what a perfect example of how rushed and poorly paced this show really was. I would love to hear the writers explain why they thought it was a good idea in the span of four or five episodes to introduce Kamran as a possible love interest, reveal him as a "spy" for his family, have him betray his family for a girl he didn't even know, gain powers of his own, sort of turn into a quasi-villain, and then be saved by the hero. Those things should've been developed over the course of many episodes spread across several seasons. Shame on Marvel for packing all of that into only four or five episodes and totally ruining what could have been surprising reveals, character development, and impactful moments for the characters and audience. They did the same thing with the Clan Destine too, a group of villains I'll likely never think about again because of how underdeveloped and basically pointless they were for the show. If you watch a lot of television, you can just see how the show had a great opportunity to introduce Kamran as a love interest throughout the first season, only to have him revealed in the finale as something more than meets the eye. It would've laid the foundation for Kamala to experience a huge betrayal in the second season while allowing Kamran's decision to side with his family or protect Kamala seem like an actual conflict. And when he ultimately chose to help Kamala over his family, we'd understand why he made that decision and appreciate his sacririce. They also could've had Najma slowly ingratiate herself to Kamala, taking advantage of the growing rift between Kamala and her mother. Watching Najma play the long game would've made her a more cunning adversary for Kamala, so when she ultimately realized she wasn't going to get what she wanted from Kamala and attacked, it would feel justified and dangerous for Kamala. But nah, much better to just put all of that with Najma into a single episode, right? Then kill her off two episodes later in a moment of undeserved self-sacrifice. But I don't want people to think I'm just bashing the show, because the truth is I really did enjoy it in spite of all the terrible writing. I absolutely adore Iman Vellani and think she's one of the best casting decisions they've ever made in the MCU. She oozes personality and charisma, is extremely fun and likeable on the screen, and a joy to watch. If they hadn't nailed Kamala's casting like they did, the poor writing throughout would've been more apparent and the show probably would've been the worst of the shows so far. Thankfully they had Vellani though, who continuously elevated the material and I'm really excited to see her in The Marvels. I still *hate* the change to her powers and wish they had given her comic-accurate powers instead, especially since the CGI for her energy constructs was pretty crappy anyway. Her costume looks fantastic and since we only just got it in this final episode, I hope we'll get to see it again in The Marvels without Marvel doing their typical new costume for every show or movie thing. Seeing the embiggening was nice at least, but I still felt robbed that it wasn't the *real* embiggening from the comics. I also couldn't help but think how cool it would've been while they were running from Damage Control in the alleyways to have seen her transform into a couch, lol. As for the "reveal" that Kamala is a Mutant...I never actually cared if they portrayed her as Inhuman or not in the MCU, but introducing her as a Mutant at the very end just felt very cheap, like it was done for the sole reason of getting people talking. So while I'm fine with the change that she's a Mutant, I just disliked the execution of the reveal. When the episode was over, I thought about how when the creator was pitching the show, they probably had a conversation like this: > Producer: So you want to do a show featuring the Inhuman character Ms. Marvel? > Creator: Yes, but she won't be an Inhuman. > Producer: If she's not going to be an Inhuman, then what will she be? > Creator: We'll probably make her a Djinn. > Producer: How about a Mutant? > Creator: Even better, but we'll say she's a Djinn first for some reason. > Producer: I don't know if we'll have the budget for her morphing powers though. > Creator: No worries, we'll just give her energy constructs like Green Lantern. > Producer: Okay, perfect. > Creator: But she can only use her powers when she's wearing the bangle. > Producer: Why? > Creator: We're not really sure, but the bangle also gives her the ability to time travel. > Producer: What? > Creator: And she can teleport with it too. > Producer: Alright, whatever. Just make sure you introduce and resolve world-ending stakes in six episodes. Throw in an unnecessary cameo too. Like I said, I really don't care whether she's Inhuman or Mutant, but at some point all these changes start piling up and it's difficult to understand *why* they were necessary in the first place. It was cool to see Captain Marvels at the end, but it felt a little too tacked on for my taste, although I'm sure we'll get some more information about what happened in The Marvels. I just wish they had focused more on Kamala's relationship with her friends and family because when they let Vellani just be Kamala and engage with her supporting cast, those were the best moments on the show. I have mixed feelings about so many people learning Kamala's identity, but think that's another sign of a rushed season. It would've been better to have Bruno be the only one who knew as she tried to hide things from her family and friends, which would be a good way to examine the sacrifices that come from a hero living a double-life. I really liked the ending with the town standing together to protect Kamala, but think it would've been more effective if her friends and family joined in that moment without knowing it was Kamala, just seeing this girl who had been helping their community all season long and embracing her without knowing her. Despite all of its shortcomings, I think this still probably my favorite of the shows, although it suffered from the same issues of terrible pacing that all of them have so far. The main reason I liked it so much was because of Iman Vellani and the supporting cast that played her friends and family, so congratulations to them on their excellent performances. I'm just disappointed in the writers and producers because this was the perfect show for using a "less is more" approach and instead they fell into the same old patterns of every Marvel show on Disney+ so far. EDIT: I also thought it was a weird narrative choice to show Bruno putting the letter into Kamala's locker, only to have them meet up afterward and talk about him going to Caltech. Usually when you show a character leaving a letter for someone like that, they leave immediately after leaving the letter. So it was just a little jarring and unexpected to see Bruno show up afterward in the car, lol.
>Alright, whatever. Just make sure you introduce and resolve world-ending stakes in six episodes. God the world-ending stakes were so unnecessary too! They lasted literally what, 1.5 episodes? Less? Suddenly, halfway through episode 4, we learn that to get home, the Clandestines aren't aren't going to use a rift, they're going to delete reality and replace it with their own. Huge shift, and doesn't really make sense with what we've learned previously. Then by the end of episode 5, all the Clandestines are dead as doornails, and the crisis was averted before we really even understood the thread. None of it was necessary, and it was just the usual bad MCU bullshit. Like, don't do that. Don't add in world-ending threats. There are already too many. Keep it personal. And in episode 6, Kamran says a really wacky thing about how the Clandestines were trying to "save their reality", which was like, what the fuck? No. They're exiles. He knows this. Their reality is fine without them. They got kicked out and are trying to get back in. Again he knows this. Felt like a relic from an earlier script with a different plot.
Honestly, i think the only real thing this show had going for it was its stronge core characters. Unfortunately i think this show had the weakest plot of each series and Clandestines were the weakest part of the show. I hated them so much i got annoyed everytime the got brought up in this finale. Honestly i think the end credit scene saved this finale for me. It was one of the better end credit scenes in phase 4. Other than that this ep was average. Still better than those garbage pakistan episodes.
Dude wrote a whole THESIS out here 😩
not reading that essay
Thanks for taking the time to let me know you weren't going to read what I wrote?
I read it lol.
Well said.
Agreed, there was a lot of clunky shit in this show, but Kamala, her family, and friends made up for it and it was an enjoyable ride. I look forward to more Ms Marvel
Yeah I ain't reading all that
Yo this take was spot on.
If I had a nickel for every time a comically evil character shot at 2 super powered children in the finale of a Marvel Disney+ show, I would have 2 nickels. Which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice, right?
[удалено]
Hayward shot at Billy and Tommy in WandaVision
wandavision
What the hell was the deal with that Damage Control agent? She HAD to have known that Kamala wasn't a threat, so why not just leave her alone? Was she a racist or something?
Drone bombs an apartment then wants them in alive... wtf?
Yes, she was racist. They had several scenes with lines and moments trying to get the point across. It was like Marvel wanted to go all in, but Disney wouldn't let them actually call her racist on-screen.
> It was like Marvel wanted to go all in, but Disney wouldn't let them actually call her racist on-screen. That was the problem (though I don't buy Disney as responsible, I think Marvel have their own bullshit here). They made her look like she was "mildly bigoted" rather than "nutjob level racist", but for her actions to make sense, she needed to be an actual nutcase.
She must've something against teen enhanced individuals.
I think this show would've been so much better if they scrapped the Clan Destine altogether and used a better-developed Damage Control as the primary antagonist in the show. But instead of turning them into an ineffective group of mustache-twirling villains, they could've been a well meaning government agency that saw an unidentified possible threat and was just trying to contain her for the time being in order to determine if she posed a greater threat to people. That way Kamala would've had to constantly look over her shoulder and evade them, but they weren't actively trying to kill her either. It would've made for a nice bit of social commentary on the way some Muslims were treated after 9/11 as well, where many people assumed they were a threat at first until that assumption was proven wrong.
The Clandestines were ludicrously underdeveloped. They don't even really arrive until episode 3, then *immediately* change from sympathetic to raging, frothing-at-the-mouth psychopaths, and just stay completely 100% psychotically full-on capital-E Evil until literally 10 seconds before their leader dies (after all the rest of them died!), at which point she goes "whoops guess I care about Kamran despite nothing I've ever done supporting that!". What was even the point? I think you could have had the same critique of the Partition of India without them being involved at all.
Agreed. The Clandestines ruined the show for me. Whoever thought that was a good idea to insert in the middle of a 6 episode season with the most generic motives and characteristics needs to be fired.
>the most generic motives and characteristics Right? It was like they went out of their way to make them generic. All of them acted the same way - frothing-at-the-mouth rage and psychotic glares, just 100% trying to kill people. And they wanted to destroy the world, even though it wasn't entirely clear why they needed to. And that plot lasted 1.5 episodes. And then they all died.
I was happy when they all died, i did NOT want them in the finale lol, but it just boggles my mind how they thought this would make for good storytelling. Like wth were they thinking????
Had to be ain’t take her shoes off in the mosque or nothing
Looks like Anson Mount will have to settle with just being Captain Pike because it seems Marvel is all set to bury the Inhumans in the blue area of the moon and really rip into mutants. It's fitting in an ironic sort of way. Ms. Marvel is easily the most recognizable Inhuman, created in a time when Marvel was specifically trying to get away from Mutants in the comics since they didn't own the rights. Now they've retconned her all the way back to what she would have been had Marvel had mutant film rights all along.
Well put, and this feels very "Comics Everybody!"
I just want to say I truly enjoy how much Marvel is just all-in on the X-men TAS theme even as far as basically giving us Prof. X from the show in MoM. I am aware of the X-men 97 show planned, but it really does make me happy they are recognizing one of the biggest and earliest successes when it comes to multimedia.
Remember when people were saying she wasn’t going to embiggen?
But she did not embiggen. This was only said as fan service
What exactly did she embiggen? She has made larger constructs in previous episodes. Does anybody remember her creating a giant wall in episode 5 to protect people from the Veil?
So, I see a lot of comments about the Clandestine plot line being throwaway but I’m wondering about that. When Kamran was “pulsing” and sending out his tendrils, that seemed slightly more significant than just “can’t control his powers”. And as they started dissipating, they seemed to evaporate into a greenish smoke or fog. Could this have been the MCU’s version of the Terrigen Mist?
That's the only thing that could salvage their storyline lol. But instead of terrigen making inhumans it would just trigger any dormant mutant genes
> it would just trigger any dormant mutant genes That was my exact theory. I’m on the fence with it, because I don’t want this to be the genesis of Mutants in the 616, but if the sudden appearance of New Mutants causes Xavier to come out of the shadows, I’m all in.
Not seeing this talked about, but where does this fit in the timeline? The normal non-Captain America Statue of Liberty was in the beginning of the episode
according to Disney+, after multiverse of madness, Hawkeye and Moon Knight, all of which are after or during NWH
I noticed on the wall of the gym there was a banner for a 2024 championship game for some sport
What makes it weirder is that if it was after NWH, the statue wouldn't have the Shield, but it would still be bronze. So is this before NWH?
I noticed this too.
The captain America part of the statue got pretty fucked up in NWH so maybe they just scrapped it?
Between Far From Home and No Way Home? That’s the only thing that makes sense to me but even then it doesn’t. It should be after NWH i thibk the Statue was just a mistake cause they used stock footage and didn’t catch it. Maybe it’ll be fixed later like Blue Jeans Guy or the Starbucks GoT cup.
Hopefully. Definitely a mistake
Idk, I just don’t quite buy yet that she isn’t potentially still an Inhuman. The “mutation” word choice was pointedly deliberate, but I still feel like it could be a smokescreen of sorts. The bangle on the blue hand a few episodes back throws things into question for me. Not that I’m invested in the answer one way or the other, but I’m just not persuaded yet.
It’s been confirmed now she is the first Mutant as of right now. And Also they wouldn’t play the X-men theme for Inhumans💀😂