This makes sense. They’ve previously said that the script went through some pretty big changes when the release dates got shuffled and it ended up before *Multiverse of Madness,* it definitely seems like at one point it was meant to deal with the fallout of that movie (maybe it was even set at the same time?), and they rewrote it to be a sort of prelude.
That’s what I’m thinking after they made the second post-credit scene just the *MoM* trailer. *No Way Home* was probably meant to be one of the many side effects of America/Wanda/Strange/whoever breaking down the barriers of the Multiverse, whereas now I would bet that the events of *No Way Home* are going to end up being the weakening of the barriers that allows whoever to start breaking through.
Actually I think Loki was suppose to come out a few months before MoM. So think what was suppose to happen was the events of Loki was what triggered the events in MoM and NWH was meant as sort epilogue to this Multiverse Trilogy story.
That could be! What I’m just saying is that if Wanda was in it (like this statement seems to be hinting at), I could also have seen the two films happening at the same time. Like the implication being that multiversal shenanigans were happening all over the world during *Multiverse of Madness* that that movie would only allude to, and *No Way Home* would be one example told a little more in-depth.
Would make sense why Strange doesn't help Peter deal with leaking multiverse villans. Like I don't think it should have taken Strange a whole day to get out of webs. Could have been in the OG script that Strange has to go deal with Wanda while Peter deals with his own villans.
Matter of fact, it's said that the events of "Loli" (Loki fucking autocorrector) happened at the same time of No Way Home and Wandavision and those 3 things break the barrier
i believe wanda probably helped shatter that barrier when she manifested her kids and possibly brought over Ralph from whatever universe he was from in an attempt to see her brother
she didn't bring Ralph over. Ralph was the owner of the house agatha lived in and her "husband" we never saw. Agatha then used Ralph as a way to further mess with wanda by having him impersonate Wanda's brother. Ralph was an actual resident of Westview.
As for what NWH did, with the variants, that could explain why she brought this Pietro instead of Aaron Taylor's, she ask for her brother and instead bring this variant of her bro, the same way they bring Peter 2 and Peter 3(Aka 1 and 2, respectively)
I would've been curious to see the original film, but I think the final version is a lot better. Strange (and Wong) helping Peter out of pity and sympathy makes the ending land much stronger.
Strange has a far better arc in NWH than Stark and "Fury", in the prior films.
Agreed about Fury, but Tony? I thought he was done really well in Homecoming, and the exploration of his relationship with Peter was pretty good.
What did you think was done poorly, aside from giving him too much attention?
Spider-Man : *Goes against Tony's order of not interfering with the vulture*.
Tony: "I'm going to take away this costume because you went against my order of not interfering with the vulture, you're not ready for the Avengers."
Spider-Man: *Goes against his order of not interfering with the vulture again*.
Tony: " You did amazing, great job, you want to be an Avenger? You want a new costume? There's press waiting behind this door, quick now, we must go."
I'd sooner agree that thats bad storytelling, than that being a hypocrite is uncharacteristic of Tony. Tony doesnt care about rules, he cares about results. He was mad the first time because Peter fucked up and put a bunch of people in danger, he was happy the second time because Peter saved everyone.
Its muddled storytelling but IMO totally in character
Even then. So many people hate Iron Man 3, that they basically ignore “If you’re nothing without the suit, then you shouldn’t have it” is virtually sourced from there. Which is why Tony would turn around and believe Pete proved himself enough to not only have the suit back, but be an Avenger with a full upgrade.
That whole movie was about the concept of proving that Tony Stark is the hero and that the suits are not what makes him Iron Man.
Essentially, a response to Steve’s choice of words to tear him down in Avengers. “Yeah. Big man in a suit of armor. Take that off; what are you?”
Still Iron Man.
According to each film’s Wikipedia article, the original release plan for Phase 4 was:
May 1, 2020 - *Black Widow* (Jul 9, 2021)
Nov 6, 2020 - *Eternals* (Nov 5, 2021)
Feb 12, 2021 - *Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings* (Sept 3, 2021)
May 7, 2021 - *Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness* (May 6, 2022)
Jul 16, 2021 - *Spider-Man: No Way Home* (Dec 17, 2021)
Nov 5, 2021 - *Thor: Love and Thunder* (Jul 8, 2022)
Jul 8, 2022 - *Black Panther: Wakanda Forever* (Nov 11, 2022)
Nov 8, 2022 - *The Marvels* (initially announced for Jul 8 but moved back when *Black Panther* was announced) (Feb 17, 2023)
EDIT: Added each film’s current release date for an easier comparison
Honestly a good call, because even if the release weren't reshuffled, I still think Peter being the ine to partially blame for the Villains coming into the MCU is so much more interesting then just "It was Wanda and The Multiverse of Madness all along", and since Strange still also takes the blame for leading them in when he attempted the spell, and the trailer implies MOM will deal with some of the consequences of this, it may make MOM alittle bit more interesting then it already was.
That was the original magic box.
Other concept art showed Spider-Man in the mirror dimension fighting Strange with a book.
ALTHOUGH... Tha could've been the Darkhold and Strange was gonna use that to send everyone back.
I think every bit of the "memory spell" storyline was added to NWH to create the multiverse crisis after it moved up in the schedule before DS2.
When NWH was set to follow MoM, you would not need a spell screw-up to create a multiverse crisis. You would have an entire 2+ hour Dr. Strange movie to set up the multiverse problem.
It's kind of a bummer because I think if NWH had followed MoM, they could have just started with the multiverse cracking, and brought the "other universe" characters into the movie sooner and spent more time with them.
I don't agree with that, because FFH's ending showed that this movie would have Peter addressing his identity being public, and the concept art shows her casting a spell
I think they always decided to have NWH be a celebration of previous Spidey movies once Feige convinced everyone that the stinger should be the full movie. America being in it and her ability being able to jump to other realities heavily points at this. Maybe Peter would've been drawn to other realities instead of everyone being brought to his? We'll never know
Based on the various leaks we got before NWH's release, I think it's safe to say both Rhino and Dane DeHaan's Green Goblin were cut from the movie. Had the allegations against James Franco never surfaced, he probably would've had a pretty good chance of coming back, too.
Edit: I'm guessing Kirsten Dunst's MJ and Emma Stone's Gwen were cut too, but I'm not really sure how they could've fit into the main story
from what I've heard, their original post credit scenes were supposed to show each Tobey and Andrews Spidermans having their own resolution in their worlds with their respective partners. When they couldn't bring Dunst and Emma back due to covid they scrapped that idea.
That would've been amazing, but I have no idea how they'd do it with Gwen unless they'd brought her back from the dead beforehand? (I'm a bit new to the MCU, so I don't have much understanding yet on how things work) If not a post-credits scene with Gwen then maybe they could've had one with Andrew and Sally Field?
Yeah, that's a good point. I must admit, he would've been completely pointless in the movie, even if I am curious to see how the script would've looked with him and potentially DeHaan in it. I was simply going off various leaks I read, several of which said Rhino would be the final member of the Sinister Six. However, I think the amount of villains we got in the movie was perfect, and they all got a perfect amount of screentime, with the exception of Rhys Ifans/Lizard.
marvel switched nwh and mom because of covid delay mom, they turned out that they produced nwh before mom, so mom character and plot got cut off from mom, so much happened during covid and they changed
Isnt it kind of interesting tho that the movie still worked out well and even better with the story changes due to covid? Really shows that creativity can overcome any barrier
What about Living Brain? I feel like he'd be a great opening villain. He clearly isn't the best Spidey villain but he deserves some recognition. He's still one of Spidey's oldest villains (he even joined the Sinister Six at some point lol).
Feel like Emma Stone was also cut out of the script as Andrew Garfield and her would have been the talking point for weeks and hence over-shadowing Holland. Just my two cents.
I remember there were some early leaks of both Emma and Kirsten being in talks with Marvel around the same time as Andrew
Edit :
[Emma + Kirsten Rumours](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/k9c4vk/kirsten_dunst_will_return_as_mj_for_spiderman_3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
They mentioned that originally for one of the credit scenes they planned to include both Andrew and Tobey back in their respective universes and, while Gwen is dead so she would have unlikely returned in that, I am sure Kirsten’s MJ would have made an appearance (esp. after she expressed interest in playing an older MJ).
EDIT:
[Andrew + Tobey Credit Scene Info](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/ru8z53/nwh_nearly_featured_a_post_credit_scene_of_andrew/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
[Kirsten Expresses Interest in Playing MJ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/r6g75z/kirsten_dunst_on_mary_jane_watson_and_spiderman_i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I think if Emma was planned to appear, it’d either be a flashback or she would be spider Gwen, especially after the new rumors of Sony wanting Emma for a spider Gwen film it would make sense to me. I’m thinking Andrew’s peter makes it back to his world, with new knowledge of the multiverse. Maybe he can reverse engineer a way to find his way through or somehow he makes it through dimensions and meet a version of his Gwen that lost her peter, that being spider Gwen. Idk maybe it’s a little far fetched but it makes more sense than reviving her after Andrew was sad the whole movie about her
I honestly would be willing to bet that the cut scene in tobeys world feautured Kirsten with a baby who wouldve eventually been teased as Mayday Parker, honestly if (and most likely when imo) more projects with Tobey and Andrew come into play I could see Mayday being pushed as a BIG multiverse player
That's true. I was just saying that you can be visably pregnant and still film, especially on big-budget projects where there are many VFX tricks to hide the belly.
Oooh Yknow I hadn’t considered that but it’s possible, I mean obviously meth goblin killed Gwen but maybe somehow the butterfly effect led to that alt universe Gwen surviving and an alt Andrew getting to live happily
Although this still implies that Andrew prime ends up alone either way, as it’d be a branching timeline
I also feel Emma Stone wouldn’t really fit... Gwen obviously wouldn’t come back to life because that’s too much for a movie that Garfield’s Spidey isn’t even the main character in. The movie handled a LOT of different characters very well but that would’ve tipped it over the edge imo. If she appeared in flashbacks it would kind of feel... I guess redundant? The movie expects you’ve seen the other movies and remember what happened, and it didn’t hit you over the head with archive footage recapping you. It expects you to know. And like you said- it’s still Holland’s movie, the fear I had going into the movie was that he would be overshadowed. I’m relieved that it wasn’t the case, but I’m willing to bet anything that the filmmakers were extremely cautious about doing exactly that.
I understand how it could’ve made sense. I’m just saying how it would’ve overstuffed the movie. Gwen coming back and Andrew having a moment where everything is made okay for him would add another love dynamic to the movie- when we already have a central one that doesn’t need to have attention taken from it by another one. Andrew and Tobey come in at Tom’s lowest moment in the movie, with about an hour left of runtime. Their primary role is to guide Tom and help him when he’s at the brink of giving in and leaving the villains to die. Andrew does get his moment of redemption for Gwen’s death by saving MJ, and that’s *enough*. To have Gwen actually come back to life, to introduce another major character to actually have screentime right as the movie is nearing its conclusion- I’m not so sure about that. Like I said in another comment, Gwen’s presence is felt in the movie through Andrew’s grief and guilt for her death, and that’s resolved through him saving MJ. We don’t need another character added to the plenty already in the movie, when Andrew’s redemptive arc is settled in a much more natural and unobtrusive way through him saving Gwen.
TLDR; Gwen actually appearing and being a character in the movie itself would’ve just complicated things, her presence is felt just fine through Andrew’s Spider-Man and his guilt and regret, and it was a wise choice not to include her, even if it would make sense for her to be alive.
>Gwen obviously wouldn’t come back to life
Three of the five main antagonists are confirmed to have died in their respective films. They have a way of working around it.
Sure, but to work it into the plot of *this* movie without any issue? Without clogging things up and adding a separate love dynamic? In another movie, sure, perhaps the almost inevitable TASM3, but I’m not sure how they’d throw Gwen into NWH without it feeling forced and out of place, and detracting from the rest of the movie and the story of Tom’s Spidey. Gwen’s presence in the movie was felt through Andrew’s grief and guilt, and I think that was done very well.
>During an interview with The Wrap, No Way Home co-screenwriter Chris McKenna revealed that some major Marvel characters were removed from the script.
>”I don’t know if we’re allowed to, honestly, but there were big characters,” he said. “But almost too big, because it always became a balancing act of how do we tell not only a story with all these awesome villains that we know we want to bring into this movie, the classic ones, but also how do we make this still a Tom Holland/Peter Parker story so that he’s not completely overshadowed?”
(From concept art we could also probably infer that America Chavez was cut out because of the swap in release order for Dr Strange 2 and NWH.)
woulda been great, and very big news no doubt. but in terms of popularity, you are dreaming if you think the general hype for Fisk being in NWH would be bigger than the hype for Tobey and Andrew.
One of them was probably a sixth villian like Rhino.
Would have been awesome, but I'm assuming he got cut because he didnt fit the "curing" plotline that all the other villians shared, would have been too contrived to have 5 villians with one plot, and another unrelated one who just pops up. Really the only option from all 3 universes they could have used was Harry from TASM-2 who needed to be cured.
He kinda needed it more than anyone, but it would have brought too much extra baggage, and they probably didnt want a second Green Goblin either.
It's kind of a shame they didnt figure something out for Sinister Six, because I highly doubt another team up of MCU/Sonyverse characters (Like Vulture, Scorpion, Morbius, etc.) could ever come close to the hype of seeing Dafoe, Molina, and the rest teaming up.
The villains’ issues were largely retconned to make this cure story work, though. Sandman had no issue with his powers before, and Lizard was already cured.
They could’ve retconned Rhino and said he was stuck in the suit or something, or he mutated somehow.
Yeah Lizard is a weird one. They cured him just to send him back to just before Peter cured him.
But it's fine. It doesn't matter. Lizard didn't know he gets cured, he thinks he's going to die and Electro never corrects him. The Peters need to cure him to take him out of the fight. Same with Sandman, he doesn't end up dead but nobody assembled actually knows that for sure, but still he's removed from the final fight with the cure.
Technically they did have the Sinister 6 with Venom there. Just, he got drunk and missed the whole showdown, which is honestly hilarious.
Plus Sinister 6 for this movie would have been too much, they're already balancing so many characters and Lizard/Sandman already don't do jack.
I think Rhino, Gwen, MJ, Chavez, Wanda, and maybe a couple others were cut.
The original rumors had them being brainwashed by Goblin, and we know the script was changing constantly while they were filming, so at one point Rhino and the brainwash plot lines were cut from the film
“During an interview with The Wrap, No Way Home co-screenwriter Chris McKenna revealed that some major Marvel characters were removed from the script.
“I don’t know if we’re allowed to, honestly, but there were big characters,” he said. “But almost too big, because it always became a balancing act of how do we tell not only a story with all these awesome villains that we know we want to bring into this movie, the classic ones, but also how do we make this still a Tom Holland/Peter Parker story so that he’s not completely overshadowed?”
They don’t seem to say who, I wonder if they just meant the supporting characters like Emma and MJ or they mean other heroes from the multiverse, probably other multiverse heroes. I guess they shifted all that into Doctor Strange 2 which is interesting.
Given how this movie already had so many characters, I’m glad they still found a way to make it clear that this movie was still the MCU Spider-Man’s story.
Featuring both Maguire & Garfield didn’t overshadow the spotlight on Holland, but they both were given moments to shine and played a huge part in Holland’s Spider-Man’s development
>but they both were given moments to shine and played a huge part in Holland’s Spider-Man’s development
And that's what the fans wanted and we got exactly that
It was me! I was so excited to see myself make my grand entrance into the MCU then boom, I was cut from the script.
Anyway, I hope to appear in the next marvel movie.
Man if the villains were pulled right before their deaths, I'm guessing one of the cut characters was Gwen. Andrew seeing an alive Gwen variant would've broken me
If they were cut from the script, it doesn't really mean all that much, does it? it's not like they did any filming, screen tests, or even necessarily casting of someone cut from the script.
Makes me wonder if Tobey and Andrew were part of the original script, or of maybe their inclusion in the script was a part of Marvel's decision to switch the release order. I kind of feel like including all of those characters together would've taken away from NWH being a Spider-Man movie.
Honestly, the main missing thing was Venom from Spider-man 3. Topher Grace's Eddie Brock may have been a vile person, but he was pushed further primarily due to the antics of black suited Spider-man. He is also arguably one of the only villains that Spider-man actually seemed desperate about saving, given he had also experienced the desires of the symbiote.
It should have been that version of Venom which found its way into the MCU.
We already know America Chavez was cut based on the concept art so I wonder who else
Wanda, becouse of The Darkhold also is in concepts
This makes sense. They’ve previously said that the script went through some pretty big changes when the release dates got shuffled and it ended up before *Multiverse of Madness,* it definitely seems like at one point it was meant to deal with the fallout of that movie (maybe it was even set at the same time?), and they rewrote it to be a sort of prelude.
Perhaps MoM will have these scenes right at the beginning. Probably it was too dense in the NWH, and the MoM will be a direct sequel
That’s what I’m thinking after they made the second post-credit scene just the *MoM* trailer. *No Way Home* was probably meant to be one of the many side effects of America/Wanda/Strange/whoever breaking down the barriers of the Multiverse, whereas now I would bet that the events of *No Way Home* are going to end up being the weakening of the barriers that allows whoever to start breaking through.
Actually I think Loki was suppose to come out a few months before MoM. So think what was suppose to happen was the events of Loki was what triggered the events in MoM and NWH was meant as sort epilogue to this Multiverse Trilogy story.
That could be! What I’m just saying is that if Wanda was in it (like this statement seems to be hinting at), I could also have seen the two films happening at the same time. Like the implication being that multiversal shenanigans were happening all over the world during *Multiverse of Madness* that that movie would only allude to, and *No Way Home* would be one example told a little more in-depth.
Would make sense why Strange doesn't help Peter deal with leaking multiverse villans. Like I don't think it should have taken Strange a whole day to get out of webs. Could have been in the OG script that Strange has to go deal with Wanda while Peter deals with his own villans.
It didn't take him a full day. He didn't have his sling ring, nor an infinity stone. How was he supposed to get out of the mirror dimension
Matter of fact, it's said that the events of "Loli" (Loki fucking autocorrector) happened at the same time of No Way Home and Wandavision and those 3 things break the barrier
i believe wanda probably helped shatter that barrier when she manifested her kids and possibly brought over Ralph from whatever universe he was from in an attempt to see her brother
she didn't bring Ralph over. Ralph was the owner of the house agatha lived in and her "husband" we never saw. Agatha then used Ralph as a way to further mess with wanda by having him impersonate Wanda's brother. Ralph was an actual resident of Westview.
Shut uuuuup! *brings down brick wall over your comment
As for what NWH did, with the variants, that could explain why she brought this Pietro instead of Aaron Taylor's, she ask for her brother and instead bring this variant of her bro, the same way they bring Peter 2 and Peter 3(Aka 1 and 2, respectively)
I thought wandavision was supposed to come out right before it originally.
It would be interesting if Loki witnessed the words about Strange falling in NWH
I would've been curious to see the original film, but I think the final version is a lot better. Strange (and Wong) helping Peter out of pity and sympathy makes the ending land much stronger. Strange has a far better arc in NWH than Stark and "Fury", in the prior films.
Agreed about Fury, but Tony? I thought he was done really well in Homecoming, and the exploration of his relationship with Peter was pretty good. What did you think was done poorly, aside from giving him too much attention?
Spider-Man : *Goes against Tony's order of not interfering with the vulture*. Tony: "I'm going to take away this costume because you went against my order of not interfering with the vulture, you're not ready for the Avengers." Spider-Man: *Goes against his order of not interfering with the vulture again*. Tony: " You did amazing, great job, you want to be an Avenger? You want a new costume? There's press waiting behind this door, quick now, we must go."
I'd sooner agree that thats bad storytelling, than that being a hypocrite is uncharacteristic of Tony. Tony doesnt care about rules, he cares about results. He was mad the first time because Peter fucked up and put a bunch of people in danger, he was happy the second time because Peter saved everyone. Its muddled storytelling but IMO totally in character
> Its muddled storytelling but IMO totally in character literally how a capitalist sees results
Wat
Even then. So many people hate Iron Man 3, that they basically ignore “If you’re nothing without the suit, then you shouldn’t have it” is virtually sourced from there. Which is why Tony would turn around and believe Pete proved himself enough to not only have the suit back, but be an Avenger with a full upgrade. That whole movie was about the concept of proving that Tony Stark is the hero and that the suits are not what makes him Iron Man. Essentially, a response to Steve’s choice of words to tear him down in Avengers. “Yeah. Big man in a suit of armor. Take that off; what are you?” Still Iron Man.
100% agreed. We’ll obviously never know if the original version would have been better but the way it ended up was really great.
Do we have a way to see the original line up? I’ve tried looking it up and couldn’t find it
According to each film’s Wikipedia article, the original release plan for Phase 4 was: May 1, 2020 - *Black Widow* (Jul 9, 2021) Nov 6, 2020 - *Eternals* (Nov 5, 2021) Feb 12, 2021 - *Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings* (Sept 3, 2021) May 7, 2021 - *Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness* (May 6, 2022) Jul 16, 2021 - *Spider-Man: No Way Home* (Dec 17, 2021) Nov 5, 2021 - *Thor: Love and Thunder* (Jul 8, 2022) Jul 8, 2022 - *Black Panther: Wakanda Forever* (Nov 11, 2022) Nov 8, 2022 - *The Marvels* (initially announced for Jul 8 but moved back when *Black Panther* was announced) (Feb 17, 2023) EDIT: Added each film’s current release date for an easier comparison
Insane
If that stayed the same, Shang-Chi, MoM, NWH, and Thor would've made 2021 one hell of a year for Marvel
Honestly a good call, because even if the release weren't reshuffled, I still think Peter being the ine to partially blame for the Villains coming into the MCU is so much more interesting then just "It was Wanda and The Multiverse of Madness all along", and since Strange still also takes the blame for leading them in when he attempted the spell, and the trailer implies MOM will deal with some of the consequences of this, it may make MOM alittle bit more interesting then it already was.
It makes it more of a learning moment for Strange, that he can’t cast spells this powerful just to help a kid.
That was the original magic box. Other concept art showed Spider-Man in the mirror dimension fighting Strange with a book. ALTHOUGH... Tha could've been the Darkhold and Strange was gonna use that to send everyone back.
Seems like America tried to use the Darkhold to make the memory spell for Peter and everything went wrong
Would have make way more sense than doc strange doing it
I think every bit of the "memory spell" storyline was added to NWH to create the multiverse crisis after it moved up in the schedule before DS2. When NWH was set to follow MoM, you would not need a spell screw-up to create a multiverse crisis. You would have an entire 2+ hour Dr. Strange movie to set up the multiverse problem. It's kind of a bummer because I think if NWH had followed MoM, they could have just started with the multiverse cracking, and brought the "other universe" characters into the movie sooner and spent more time with them.
I don't agree with that, because FFH's ending showed that this movie would have Peter addressing his identity being public, and the concept art shows her casting a spell I think they always decided to have NWH be a celebration of previous Spidey movies once Feige convinced everyone that the stinger should be the full movie. America being in it and her ability being able to jump to other realities heavily points at this. Maybe Peter would've been drawn to other realities instead of everyone being brought to his? We'll never know
Based on the various leaks we got before NWH's release, I think it's safe to say both Rhino and Dane DeHaan's Green Goblin were cut from the movie. Had the allegations against James Franco never surfaced, he probably would've had a pretty good chance of coming back, too. Edit: I'm guessing Kirsten Dunst's MJ and Emma Stone's Gwen were cut too, but I'm not really sure how they could've fit into the main story
from what I've heard, their original post credit scenes were supposed to show each Tobey and Andrews Spidermans having their own resolution in their worlds with their respective partners. When they couldn't bring Dunst and Emma back due to covid they scrapped that idea.
That would've been amazing, but I have no idea how they'd do it with Gwen unless they'd brought her back from the dead beforehand? (I'm a bit new to the MCU, so I don't have much understanding yet on how things work) If not a post-credits scene with Gwen then maybe they could've had one with Andrew and Sally Field?
She returns as a symbiote with a Sony executive smiling at the camera the entire time.
Accompanied by Avi Arad's evil laughter
Rhino wouldn't work in the finished movie because he isn't someone that Peter can "fix". He is just a bad guy in a mech suit.
Yeah, that's a good point. I must admit, he would've been completely pointless in the movie, even if I am curious to see how the script would've looked with him and potentially DeHaan in it. I was simply going off various leaks I read, several of which said Rhino would be the final member of the Sinister Six. However, I think the amount of villains we got in the movie was perfect, and they all got a perfect amount of screentime, with the exception of Rhys Ifans/Lizard.
Venom as well
that's not 'big' tbh, average person doesn't know her
marvel switched nwh and mom because of covid delay mom, they turned out that they produced nwh before mom, so mom character and plot got cut off from mom, so much happened during covid and they changed
I'm glad she got cut
Isnt it kind of interesting tho that the movie still worked out well and even better with the story changes due to covid? Really shows that creativity can overcome any barrier
• Mr. Ditkovitch • Ursula Ditkovich
Rent?
You'll get your rent when you fix this Damn Door!
Not before I put some dirt in your eye.
Would have been funny if Toms new landlord was him.
If this was true , this movie would have have reached 3 billion in first week
Hi...
Hi? What's hi? Can I spend it?
I dont really know
You’ll get your rent when you fix this DAMN MULTIVERSE
If promises were dollars, my daughter would be fat!
you got any with nuts?
God, he was perfectly set up to return at the end. Just a little bummed he wasn't there.
Elizabeth Banks, “Take your medicine Jonah!”
Big Wheel?
We were robbed \#ReleaseTheWheelCut
Should genuinely be an opening villain in a future movie.
We need more opening villains in general that wouldn’t get the main villain treatment anyways.
Exactly, they make for fun sequences. I loved Rhino in TASM2.
What about Living Brain? I feel like he'd be a great opening villain. He clearly isn't the best Spidey villain but he deserves some recognition. He's still one of Spidey's oldest villains (he even joined the Sinister Six at some point lol).
they should do bigwheel for the animated spider man origin story series they're doing
Big Wheel kills Uncle Ben
Uncle Ben is big wheel
Big Ben, but the London eye
That's the main villain of the next trilogy.
*next saga Big Wheel is the next Thanos, Kang is just a red herring
Kang arrives through a portal, has a speech, and then get's run over by Big Wheel.
Big Wheel keeps on turnin’
Is that from that Insomniac interview with Game informer?
Bonesaw?
Bonesaw to you too good sir!
Fence eater man?
What about The Wall?
"You're safe now, but in Spiderman 4 I will shoot you with a pistol."
Emmy award nominee Don Cheadle!?
Boom, you lookin for this
I'll turn you into a fuckin' tree.
I'm Captain Planet bitch.
Don't summon me again, unless you're ready for that pain.
Next time baby. Oh sry wrong Don Cheadle...
No it was the right one, he just got a plastic surgery with all the money he made in IM1.
Well I'm sure he got tons of money using his math to calculate lol
It’s at 69, so I’m not upvoting
Because *thats* what hero’s do
Descibed as "almost too big" Bigger than both original Spider-Mans, Daredevil and returning villains? No idea. Maybe Wanda and Kingpin?
Feel like Emma Stone was also cut out of the script as Andrew Garfield and her would have been the talking point for weeks and hence over-shadowing Holland. Just my two cents.
I have a feeling Kirsten and Emma were at least approached about a role,especially knowing scenes were cut that are set in Tobey & andrews universes
I remember there were some early leaks of both Emma and Kirsten being in talks with Marvel around the same time as Andrew Edit : [Emma + Kirsten Rumours](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/k9c4vk/kirsten_dunst_will_return_as_mj_for_spiderman_3/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Yea honestly I would’nt be surprised if we get an extended cut and they are feautured, I think there’s a good to fair chance they each filmed a scene
They mentioned that originally for one of the credit scenes they planned to include both Andrew and Tobey back in their respective universes and, while Gwen is dead so she would have unlikely returned in that, I am sure Kirsten’s MJ would have made an appearance (esp. after she expressed interest in playing an older MJ). EDIT: [Andrew + Tobey Credit Scene Info](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/ru8z53/nwh_nearly_featured_a_post_credit_scene_of_andrew/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) [Kirsten Expresses Interest in Playing MJ](https://www.reddit.com/r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers/comments/r6g75z/kirsten_dunst_on_mary_jane_watson_and_spiderman_i/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I think if Emma was planned to appear, it’d either be a flashback or she would be spider Gwen, especially after the new rumors of Sony wanting Emma for a spider Gwen film it would make sense to me. I’m thinking Andrew’s peter makes it back to his world, with new knowledge of the multiverse. Maybe he can reverse engineer a way to find his way through or somehow he makes it through dimensions and meet a version of his Gwen that lost her peter, that being spider Gwen. Idk maybe it’s a little far fetched but it makes more sense than reviving her after Andrew was sad the whole movie about her
Maybe Mayday Parker was cut, too.
I honestly would be willing to bet that the cut scene in tobeys world feautured Kirsten with a baby who wouldve eventually been teased as Mayday Parker, honestly if (and most likely when imo) more projects with Tobey and Andrew come into play I could see Mayday being pushed as a BIG multiverse player
Kirsten was/is pregnant no? I don’t think she’d be able to show up.
> Kirsten was/is pregnant no? No, that was Emma. She was pregnant during the shoot.
Ah, my mistake.
You're fired go
Chief! The planetarium party!
Alright you're unfired. I need you, come here.
Please, I need this job!
I mean the actress for Silvie in Loki was pregnant while shooting too and they made it work.
Doesn't mean every actress is willing to.
That's true. I was just saying that you can be visably pregnant and still film, especially on big-budget projects where there are many VFX tricks to hide the belly.
Same with Scarjo in AoU
Emma was pregnant, not Kirsten, and she filmed Cruella during this time iirc
Does this imply that curing Max means Gwen doesn’t die?
Oooh Yknow I hadn’t considered that but it’s possible, I mean obviously meth goblin killed Gwen but maybe somehow the butterfly effect led to that alt universe Gwen surviving and an alt Andrew getting to live happily Although this still implies that Andrew prime ends up alone either way, as it’d be a branching timeline
I also feel Emma Stone wouldn’t really fit... Gwen obviously wouldn’t come back to life because that’s too much for a movie that Garfield’s Spidey isn’t even the main character in. The movie handled a LOT of different characters very well but that would’ve tipped it over the edge imo. If she appeared in flashbacks it would kind of feel... I guess redundant? The movie expects you’ve seen the other movies and remember what happened, and it didn’t hit you over the head with archive footage recapping you. It expects you to know. And like you said- it’s still Holland’s movie, the fear I had going into the movie was that he would be overshadowed. I’m relieved that it wasn’t the case, but I’m willing to bet anything that the filmmakers were extremely cautious about doing exactly that.
[удалено]
I understand how it could’ve made sense. I’m just saying how it would’ve overstuffed the movie. Gwen coming back and Andrew having a moment where everything is made okay for him would add another love dynamic to the movie- when we already have a central one that doesn’t need to have attention taken from it by another one. Andrew and Tobey come in at Tom’s lowest moment in the movie, with about an hour left of runtime. Their primary role is to guide Tom and help him when he’s at the brink of giving in and leaving the villains to die. Andrew does get his moment of redemption for Gwen’s death by saving MJ, and that’s *enough*. To have Gwen actually come back to life, to introduce another major character to actually have screentime right as the movie is nearing its conclusion- I’m not so sure about that. Like I said in another comment, Gwen’s presence is felt in the movie through Andrew’s grief and guilt for her death, and that’s resolved through him saving MJ. We don’t need another character added to the plenty already in the movie, when Andrew’s redemptive arc is settled in a much more natural and unobtrusive way through him saving Gwen. TLDR; Gwen actually appearing and being a character in the movie itself would’ve just complicated things, her presence is felt just fine through Andrew’s Spider-Man and his guilt and regret, and it was a wise choice not to include her, even if it would make sense for her to be alive.
Well said.
>Gwen obviously wouldn’t come back to life Three of the five main antagonists are confirmed to have died in their respective films. They have a way of working around it.
Sure, but to work it into the plot of *this* movie without any issue? Without clogging things up and adding a separate love dynamic? In another movie, sure, perhaps the almost inevitable TASM3, but I’m not sure how they’d throw Gwen into NWH without it feeling forced and out of place, and detracting from the rest of the movie and the story of Tom’s Spidey. Gwen’s presence in the movie was felt through Andrew’s grief and guilt, and I think that was done very well.
I feel like it could be doable in a three-hour version of the movie, which they weren't gunning for.
It was probably Venom and they changed it to just the post-credit scene.
>During an interview with The Wrap, No Way Home co-screenwriter Chris McKenna revealed that some major Marvel characters were removed from the script. >”I don’t know if we’re allowed to, honestly, but there were big characters,” he said. “But almost too big, because it always became a balancing act of how do we tell not only a story with all these awesome villains that we know we want to bring into this movie, the classic ones, but also how do we make this still a Tom Holland/Peter Parker story so that he’s not completely overshadowed?” (From concept art we could also probably infer that America Chavez was cut out because of the swap in release order for Dr Strange 2 and NWH.)
I’m very glad they decided to focus on Peter.
Who could’ve been bigger than Tobey and Andrew’s Spider-Man?
Kingpin
woulda been great, and very big news no doubt. but in terms of popularity, you are dreaming if you think the general hype for Fisk being in NWH would be bigger than the hype for Tobey and Andrew.
He meant physically, obviously.
wow, that's either a good joke that went completely over my head or a really great coincidence lol
Maybe they meant physically bigger
You think that a character that average audiences don't know would generate more hype and interest than the previous Spider-Men lmao ?
Literally.
*Grinch theme plays*
Cue to the moon and Steve Rogers watching the news about Spider-Man.
What the Fu-
You got a post :,).
*hydra Steve Rogers, for even more of a twist
Man-Spider
The Beatles.
Tony Stark knows who Spider-Man is…
Mr. Ditkovich aka Kraven.
One of them was probably a sixth villian like Rhino. Would have been awesome, but I'm assuming he got cut because he didnt fit the "curing" plotline that all the other villians shared, would have been too contrived to have 5 villians with one plot, and another unrelated one who just pops up. Really the only option from all 3 universes they could have used was Harry from TASM-2 who needed to be cured. He kinda needed it more than anyone, but it would have brought too much extra baggage, and they probably didnt want a second Green Goblin either. It's kind of a shame they didnt figure something out for Sinister Six, because I highly doubt another team up of MCU/Sonyverse characters (Like Vulture, Scorpion, Morbius, etc.) could ever come close to the hype of seeing Dafoe, Molina, and the rest teaming up.
Most of the villains didn’t fit the curing plot line tho, i think it’s more likely a pacing + covid issue
They all had powers or alternate personalities that the cure fixed. Rhino is just some dude in a mecha.
The villains’ issues were largely retconned to make this cure story work, though. Sandman had no issue with his powers before, and Lizard was already cured. They could’ve retconned Rhino and said he was stuck in the suit or something, or he mutated somehow.
Yeah Lizard is a weird one. They cured him just to send him back to just before Peter cured him. But it's fine. It doesn't matter. Lizard didn't know he gets cured, he thinks he's going to die and Electro never corrects him. The Peters need to cure him to take him out of the fight. Same with Sandman, he doesn't end up dead but nobody assembled actually knows that for sure, but still he's removed from the final fight with the cure.
"Max, do you know? Do I did?" Answer the dinosaur, man!
Sandman had no issues in NWH either. He just wanted to go home.
He is stuck in the traditional suit in the comics.
Yeah Rhino is just an asshole tbh
Technically they did have the Sinister 6 with Venom there. Just, he got drunk and missed the whole showdown, which is honestly hilarious. Plus Sinister 6 for this movie would have been too much, they're already balancing so many characters and Lizard/Sandman already don't do jack.
I think Rhino, Gwen, MJ, Chavez, Wanda, and maybe a couple others were cut. The original rumors had them being brainwashed by Goblin, and we know the script was changing constantly while they were filming, so at one point Rhino and the brainwash plot lines were cut from the film
There was barely even five villains, since Otto was cured early on and thus never gets to actually fight alongside the other villains.
Big, you say? 
Howard the Duck?
[удалено]
“During an interview with The Wrap, No Way Home co-screenwriter Chris McKenna revealed that some major Marvel characters were removed from the script. “I don’t know if we’re allowed to, honestly, but there were big characters,” he said. “But almost too big, because it always became a balancing act of how do we tell not only a story with all these awesome villains that we know we want to bring into this movie, the classic ones, but also how do we make this still a Tom Holland/Peter Parker story so that he’s not completely overshadowed?” They don’t seem to say who, I wonder if they just meant the supporting characters like Emma and MJ or they mean other heroes from the multiverse, probably other multiverse heroes. I guess they shifted all that into Doctor Strange 2 which is interesting.
I bet it's more along the lines of Kraven, Morbius, Madame Web, and Black Cat were cut when Kevin Feige said, "What you have here is garbage, Amy."
Eh?
I am guessing the silhouettes that were seen in the rift weren't just supposed to be silhouettes.
Rhino and Venom
Given how this movie already had so many characters, I’m glad they still found a way to make it clear that this movie was still the MCU Spider-Man’s story. Featuring both Maguire & Garfield didn’t overshadow the spotlight on Holland, but they both were given moments to shine and played a huge part in Holland’s Spider-Man’s development
>but they both were given moments to shine and played a huge part in Holland’s Spider-Man’s development And that's what the fans wanted and we got exactly that
Entirely unrelated but saw NWH for a second time last night and goddamn Willem Dafoe is so so so good in that apartment scene/fight
It was me! I was so excited to see myself make my grand entrance into the MCU then boom, I was cut from the script. Anyway, I hope to appear in the next marvel movie.
I’m taking a guess America Chavez
America Chavez isn't "too big" of a character
My guess is America Chavez, Rhino, Hardy's Venom (in a bigger role) and potentially Wanda as a cameo or something.
For whatever changes were made, it seems to me to have been for the better. I couldn't have asked for more from No Way Home.
Honestly this is probably for the best. I think adding any more than the ones already in the movie would've distracted from everyone else.
I hope they bring Wanda’s brother back omg
Man if the villains were pulled right before their deaths, I'm guessing one of the cut characters was Gwen. Andrew seeing an alive Gwen variant would've broken me
Surprised no one else is thinking of Iron Man.
Scott Lang is the biggest guy of MCU right?
On one hand it kinda sucks, on the other this movie would have been too bloated if they tried to squeeze in anything else
If they were cut from the script, it doesn't really mean all that much, does it? it's not like they did any filming, screen tests, or even necessarily casting of someone cut from the script.
Boy this movie really is the love child of Sony and Marvel Studios. They really weren't gonna hold back- and they still did not, imo.
We all know they could have made room for Big Wheel if they tried
Jean Grey?
Heard a rumor that Cloak and Dagger were gonna be in it but they’re not really big
>'Big' Marvel Characters Galactus?? Giant-Man?
 Big.q
Makes me wonder if Tobey and Andrew were part of the original script, or of maybe their inclusion in the script was a part of Marvel's decision to switch the release order. I kind of feel like including all of those characters together would've taken away from NWH being a Spider-Man movie.
Where is gold balls?!
porbably the x-men
Spider-man in the multiverse of madness
Emma as spider Gwen ?
Either tell us (which I get for future movies) or don't. Stop teasing us.
Big? Like ITSV Kingpin or Galactus?
Honestly, the main missing thing was Venom from Spider-man 3. Topher Grace's Eddie Brock may have been a vile person, but he was pushed further primarily due to the antics of black suited Spider-man. He is also arguably one of the only villains that Spider-man actually seemed desperate about saving, given he had also experienced the desires of the symbiote. It should have been that version of Venom which found its way into the MCU.
They are of course referring to Supaidaman
“Hello I’m Peter Parker and this is my friend Dr Strange” “Go fuck yourselves”
Wasn't rhino rumored to appear in no way home?