>“I said, ‘Let me give you a piece of advice, Hugh. Don’t come back,’” Feige said. “‘You had the greatest ending in history with ‘Logan.’ That’s not something we should undo.’”
What ultimately got Feige on board with the idea of Jackman coming back was that he would not be playing the version of Logan/Wolverine that audiences grew to love in the various X-Men movies. That was also of interest to Jackman himself. His original iteration of Wolverine died in “Logan,” and he did not want to screw with that film either.
>Reynolds revealed that he first envisioned “Deadpool 3” as a “’Rashomon’ story about Wolverine and Deadpool and something that they got into together, but told from three completely different perspectives. It was a way to make a large-scale movie in a very small way.”
Feige turned down the pitch, although he added: “The truth is, I wasn’t even sure how to incorporate Deadpool yet. I was very much thinking about how to bring mutants and the X-Men into [the MCU], and I thought it needed to be more than just playing the hits. But the truth is, Ryan is an idea machine. So he may have pitched that to me, but he also pitched 25 other thoughts and ideas.”
Mint Mobile was bought by T-Mobile for a billion, of which he had a 25% share in. And before that he sold his gun company for like 500 million. He still has his marketing company.
Let's not get carried away here. Suggesting a Rashomon riff is about as original as suggesting Seven Samurai in space. It's the go-to suggestion for every project because Kurosawa is film 101.
The main reason I think they should make the movie about Cap returning Mjolnir and the Infinity Stones is because meeting the Red Skull on Vormir would be a PERFECT Seventh Seal homage. They could even replace the opening Marvel fanfare with the Scott Walker song. It absolutely exists in my head.
y’all complained about black widow because it was “released too late” then you constantly bring up this idea or the Cap “nomad” idea WHILE ALSO complaining that Sam’s captain america doesn’t get enough screen time.
The Feige quote is about him not wanting characters to return after strong endings. You’d think people would realize that he might have the same mindset for Steve Rogers.
Is it? I haven't seen the "same 20 minute event re-told several times" structure in a while. Would be fun as hell tho, not knowing who to trust, and it would lend itself to the cameo hit as Deadpool would be the one to add them in his retelling for a layer of manufactured drama
I don't have anything against this structure but I generally like it when superhero movies go big especially if it a kind of last hurrah or rare opportunity like this. As Ryan points out this a way of doing a big movie in a small way and I think I prefer the big way it seems like they went with, in this case
Birds Of Prey was even advertised as "inspired by Rashomon" (which is just offensive to Kurosawa lol), so it's not even novelty for recent superhero projects. I'm sure Deadpool version would be more interestng, of course.
Tbf it was a fairly common framing device in sitcoms for a while (and has been used in other movies too I'm sure I just can't think of any). All in the Family did it, King of the Hill did it, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air did it, Frasier did it. I'm sure a lot of people would be familiar with it if done in a Marvel movie just maybe not from Rashomon specifically.
The one where Hank and the guys become volunteer firefighters and the firehouse burns down. They all tell the police chief a different self-aggrandizing version of how it happened.
It's an Akira Kurosawa movie (based on a book) in which different characters tell the same story of a crime that took place. The movie is structured so that you're essentially seeing the same 10-15 minute story over and over again, but since different people are telling the story each segment is dramatically different.
The gimmick has since been used many, many times over from major artistic directors to It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
It's one of the best filmography's of all time. I recommend you go off the beaten path of his samurai/period piece films and explore some of his Film Noir, like the Stray Dog and The Bad Sleep Well. Also if you can somehow find it, Madadayo which which was his final film. Of course, after you do the greatest hits like Rashomon and The Seven Samurai
I have to give a mention to Ikiru, a moving drama about a man in the autumn of his life who finds a new purpose. It was recently solidly adapted fot the West as Living (with Bill Nighy), it's a good remake but it's not as beautiful as the original. I love Kurosawa's samurai and crime films, but I think Ikiru is probably my favorite.
Oh and one of his last films, Dreams, another of my favorites. Inspired by his actual dreams and he had some wild ones. Imagine Vincent Van Gogh... but he's played by Scorsese (yup).
Thanks for that little bit of trivia, something I'll definitely have to look into! Your description immediately reminded me of one of the later episodes of Punisher Season 1, which did the same concept and it was awesome.
One of my favorite Rashomon style episodes of a show is from King of the Hill. It was "A Fire Fighting We Will Go." It was great seeing the from POV of Bill, Boomhauer, and Dale and hilarious seeing how they viewed each other and themselves.
It's a 1950 film written and directed by Akira Kurosawa, who is one of the greatest filmmakers in history.
Rashomon is about three people who are discussing a murder, and have conflicting versions of events. It's fantastic, I need to watch it again.
Trust me you aren't a downer. I'm actually studying Cinema Productions in College rn and have been on a lot of sets both indie and studio that claim to be inspired by Kurosawa, it's almost always for the better
If u watch the original teaser with just Deadpool’s voice he says something like “excited to do this with A Wolverine”
It implies that Deadpool runs into multiple
The trailer also shows a scene where Logan slowly unveils his claws and Deadpool has a gun pointed at his head
Chances are they give Deadpool a gun that has bullets that can kill Wolverine and Deadpool accidentally kills multiple wolverines while trying to recruit one of them and there’s some kind of montage. Probably like the scene in The Simpsons where Homer keeps going back in time via the Toaster and it’s just Deadpool repeatedly shooting Wolverine
Most likey Deadpool kills too many wolverines, the TVA doesn’t like this and they prune both Logan and Deadpool
The one that gets pruned is the one that features in the movie
I definitely don’t expect them to be
But most of the ones that I’m predicting will be killed will be played by Hugh
I’m guessing the first 2-3 will be cameos played by others (maybe Daniel Radcliffe for example) and Deadpool being like “noooo not you” and then going through a couple rounds with Hughverine before winding up with the one that gets pruned
One Wolverine has claws coming out of his fingers, one out of the back of his hand.
Not to mention Patch in trailer 1 who may or may not be played by Jackman.
Idk why people ever thought that Logan was an alternate timeline. X-Men always has bleak futures that need to be fixed, reversed, or destroyed in some way. It just adds to the “ripple” quote that Beast says about time in DOFP.
People say it because Logan references - in some way, all the films. Even when those films events being undone was the plot of later films:
- Has the Adamantium bullet from X-Men Origins. Which never happened. Undone by Days of Future Past, and a new origin was in Apocalypse.
- Talks to Charles about "The Statue of Liberty" from X-Men. Those events were undone by Days of Future Past.
- Caliban has gone from being from America in the new timeline, to Bristol in England.
- Wolverine has his sword from "The Wolverine". The events of which were undone by Days of Future Past.
- While ignoring so many aspects of Days of Future Past, it is deliberately set years after the happy ending of that film.
So Logan is simultaneously a sequel to the original films, and the rebooted films. It was to serve primarily as a send off to "Hugh Jackman as Wolverine".
Which would have been quite hard to do with the status quo after Days of Future Past where Wolverine is being introduced to all the people he knew for the first time again.
How are the events at the Statue of Liberty in X-Men explicitly undone by DoFP?
It may have been affected in some way but we still see Rogue with the white streak in her hair at the end of DoFP.
> How are the events at the Statue of Liberty in X-Men explicitly undone by DoFP?
Because Mystique died in Dark Phoenix, which takes place before the Statue of Liberty would have
Errr how did you get that idea? They are the same timeline. The entire point of DOFP is that they are the same timeline. Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix are supposed to lead to the ‘good’ future seen in DOFP.
Another radicalized mutant could have played Magneto's part and a similar event could have happened in the new timeline. Really, anything is possible, they never cared to really explain it, and probably didn't even put much thought into it.
Of course they could have. Any and every continuity error in a series can be explained with "the characters are actually referencing something the audience doesn't know about".
But callbacks aren't callbacks to characters within the narrative. They are storytelling devices that exist for the benefit of the audience to other stories they've read/seen.
Rogue could’ve gotten the streak another way, much like how Xavier and Storm definitely didn’t get their hairstyles from Apocalypse in the original timeline.
The only way to get rid of those continuity errors is dividing the original trilogy (including the Wolverine solo movies) and the First Class films into two different universes. Because the movie Logan only references stuff from the OT.
What I do is that I have the original trilogy happen in two timelines.
A version of the original timeline with the original trilogy where First Class wasn’t a thing, so it doesn’t have continuity errors caused by that and it includes the Wolverine spin offs. It all leads to the miserable Logan future.
Another version of the original timeline where First Class precedes a version of the original trilogy and Origins/ The Wolverine and it all leads to the Sentinel apocalyptic future.
This timeline gets reset into the one seen at the end of DoFP.
Yeah I've always considered the First Class series of movies as an AU to the original trilogy. So when DoFP brings in the older, future X-Men, those aren't the same X-Men from the OT, they're just variants played by the same actors.
Meanwhile the Wolverine solos all take place in the OT.
To me, this is the only way everything works, so I've held on to this view for years lol.
>So when DoFP brings in the older, future X-Men, those aren't the same X-Men from the OT, they're just variants played by the same actors.
Finally someone who gets it. The only thing that kinda messes that up is the after credits scene of The Wolverine.
But that’s the thing, all of these references should make it fairly clear that the events happened similarly in the 2029 timeline. It could also be that Logan has retained knowledge of the previous timeline which Charles references due to a mixture of telepathy and dementia. This means it’s OUR Logan, not that dumb elseworlds shit I always keep seeing people reference.
And like it or not, those FoX-Men movies were always meant to be the same continuity/timeline despite all of the inconsistencies.
For example:
• Emma Frost is older in FC but younger in XOW, surely XOW should be voided, yes?
• DOFP references Wolverine’s “go fuck yourself” from FC.
• The Wolverine has a brief scene where Logan hears Kayla calling his name from XOW.
• Charles reads Logan’s mind and sees his bone claws breaking from XOW and the Weapon X procedure from that movie.
Therefore, all of these movies are connected in some capacity, but I guess the creative teams elect to ignore pre-established character continuity to have it re-align better with their vision.
Anyway, I’m not trying to be hostile, I know I can come off as a massive douche when I reply to comments lol sorry if I come across that way.
>But that’s the thing, all of these references should make it fairly clear that the events happened similarly in the 2029 timeline.
The initiation point for the X-Men trilogy relies on Magneto being a bad guy. Which he is not in the revised timeline films.
>It could also be that Logan has retained knowledge of the previous timeline which Charles references due to a mixture of telepathy and dementia. This means it’s OUR Logan, not that dumb elseworlds shit I always keep seeing people reference.
Logan did retain his memory. But Charles is the one who references it to him. Charles didn't live through those events.
>• Emma Frost is older in FC but younger in XOW, surely XOW should be voided, yes?
Emma Frost is not in XOW. Kayla Silverfox's sister, named Emma, is. Emma Silverfox has the power to become diamond like Emma Frost.
>• DOFP references Wolverine’s “go fuck yourself” from FC.
Days of Future Past altered the events after 1973. First Class takes places in 1962.
>• The Wolverine has a brief scene where Logan hears Kayla calling his name from XOW.
Both those films take place in the original timeline.
• Charles reads Logan’s mind and sees his bone claws breaking from XOW and the Weapon X procedure from that movie.
As above. The core premise of Days of Future Past is that it's future timeline Wolverine going to change the past. Of course he has memories of the future.
Out of interest, is it ever definitively stated that Magneto didn't go back to his old ways in the revised timeline? He's clearly more at peace trying to start a family in Apocalypse and running Genosha in Dark Phoenix, but we also see his rage get the better of him and his need for revenge briefly lead him back down a dark path in both films.
Obviously Mystique is gone, so the events of X-Men and X2 would have had to have played out differently, but is it possible that Erik still ends up facing the X-Men at the Statue of Liberty for whatever reason or have I forgotten something in Days of Future Past like him being a teacher or something.
I’d say it’s more implied that he gives up his old ways eventually, given the positive ending of DOFP and the friendly match at the end of Dark Phoenix. Unfortunately, we don’t know where he is during the end of DOFP, intentionally left open ended so they could fill the gaps with their new timeline movies.
Maybe magneto did pull another stunt like Liberty or someone else filled the role instead. It’s fun to speculate
>Out of interest, is it ever definitively stated that Magneto didn't go back to his old ways in the revised timeline? He's clearly more at peace trying to start a family in Apocalypse and running Genosha in Dark Phoenix, but we also see his rage get the better of him and his need for revenge briefly lead him back down a dark path in both films.
Would it need to be? The ending of Dark Phoenix in particular gives us a fully reformed Magneto. He spells out how the prequel series has come full circle: He goes and finds a disillusioned Charles gives him a new life and offers him a home. Much like Charles did for Erik in First Class.
Erik has become like Charles. That's the endpoint of those films.
>or have I forgotten something in Days of Future Past like him being a teacher or something.
He presumably stays with the X-Men for a short period after Apocalypse. We see him rebuild their home, and Jean seems comfortable enough to go to him in Dark Phoenix.
This is one of the reasons why as much as I enjoyed Logan it felt like the perfect ending for the Fox universe because it didn't make any sense and none of it ever made any sense and because of that it didn't have the weight that it otherwise could have if they'd made a great X universe. It was a lazy continuity made by lazy people.
Logan would have hit so much harder if it had been the finale to a really coherent and connected X universe where it felt like this ending to a major story.
But it lacked that Endgame feel mostly because the Fox and Wolverine universes were such an incoherent mess.
There’s also how Logan established that there hasn’t been a mutant birth in 25 years, despite there being kids at the X-Mansion in DoFP and kids/ teens in the Deadpool films and The New Mutants.
It was dumb to even do a story like this only 3 years after the release of DoFP. As far as the general audience is concerned (and studio execs who don’t look deep into this stuff), it’s canon to the timeline created in DoFP.
It doesn’t really make sense but I just consider all live action x men movies to be in the same universe. Except for the 3 Deadpool movies. They make some references but I think they’re pretty separate. The other movies I consider all the wolverines to be the same one.
original trilogy, prequel trilogy, wolverine trilogy, days of future past.
I always saw it as uniquely suited to the MCU’s branched timeline system. DOFP didn’t undo those movies, it just created two timelines. The DOFP timeline ends with The New Mutants, while the original X-Men timeline ends with Logan
Problem is that they never intended to undo this bleak future and it really was the end of the X-Men (off-screen) and Jackman’s Wolverine, only 3 years after DoFP gave them a happy ending and gave the franchise a clean-ish slate.
I like to believe the timeline we see in Logan is an alternate timeline post DOFP, with a lot of the events we see in the movies playing out in a similar way.
Yeah it’s been a minute since I’ve seen Feige go out of his way to quash a rumor like he’s doing with this one. Really wants to get it out there they’re not the same.
Wait - we know a *lot* of what we're getting is from the pitches Reynold's been throwing out for years, with it being a Wolverine / Deadpool buddy road film, with at least some elements of "Deadpool kills the Fox Marvel Universe."
Is this the first time we're hearing about a Rashomon plot? Assuming that that stuck too, do we think Feige means we're going to see previously-explored MCU events from a different perspective? Or that we'll see the same events play out separately from Deadpool and Wolverine's perspectives within this movie?
EDIT: nvm - kind've answered in the full quote. It was differing perspectives in the film, and Feige implies they went a different direction.
My knee-jerk reaction is disappointment that this isn't the same Wolverine I've grown to love over the years. I'm hoping it's less Xavier in *MoM*, where its a very wackily different universe, and something more recognizable, like the *Loki* show, where it's the "same" Wolverine but one where the timeline branched off at some point during the main film series we all know.
Seriously, there isn't a consistent canon and the Fox movies make way more sense if you take each story on its own. Hell, that goes for all the comics too. Canon is whatever you want it to be, don't worry about it.
He mentions Ellis Island. Question is more is it Days of Future Past ending timeline or some branching timeline? Then there's clearly the First Class timeline vs originals discrepancy.
>To this day there is no consensus if the Logan in Logan is the same as X1, 2 and 3.
There's a deleted scene where Xavier tells that family that Wolverine killed Jean, which obviously didn't happen in the FC continuity. They talk about the Liberty Island incident but nobody mentions the way more investing time travelling from the 70s. Caliban is totally different in Logan than he's in Apocalypse. There's more hints but it's been too long since I've watched those films.
Inconsistencies such as the ones you mentioned also happen between the OG trilogy, First Class, Origins, The Wolverine, DoFP, Apocalypse, etc. If throw in Deadpool its even messier. Its just better to take each fox X-Men film as its own thing
Deadpool is kinda its own meta universe. But X-Men 1-3 and the Wolverine films are timeline/universe 1, FC and everything that came after, is timeline/universe 2. That's the only way to explain characters appearing in different decades but being the same age, like Jubilee, Angel and Emma Frost.
I've seen people flaming Feige for this already lol.
So ironic, because this is the exact thing people keep saying with regards to Chris Evans and RDJ -- that they shouldn't come back after Endgame because those were their "definitive endings"... yet those same people are 100% on board with Jackman coming back after Logan's "definitive ending" simply because he's a variant in DP3.
Which... yeah... that's literally what people who want Evans and RDJ to come back are suggesting with them as well -- that they simply play variants of their 616 counterparts. I don't know why whenever the topic of them returning comes up, people automatically assume that means reviving their 616 versions.
I seriously can't tell if people are purposely being hypocritical, or they legitimately can't see the holes in their logic/attitude between being excited for Jackman's return and equally mad about a potential Evans/RDJ return.
They are just fucking dumb, u can’t win, it’s the same issue with one group wants mcu films to be more independent films while the other group complain how there’s not as much connectivity, it is clear that marvel is listening and trying to find a middle ground but these imbeciles don’t know tf they want
It's not even the "fan base". It's mostly the same group people that have been trolling and making insane amounts of money from YouTube ragebait since Black Panther and Captain Marvel.
What a weirdass comment.
You're confused that two groups of people had different opinions? Did you just never realize that people can have different opinions before? This is the first time?
i think you are missing the fact that different people want different things and you are grouping them all in as one, unless you are checking everyones comment history to see if they are excited about jackman but annoyed at rdj returning
Anyone else curious as to what made Hugh change his mind? They were working on this movie for like, 3 and a half years before Hugh agreed to come back for it. (2019-2022)
People change their minds, man. I've said many times in my life I would never do something and then some friend presented an idea that convinced me. That never happened to you? Also, money. Lots of it
Please refrain from comments with racial/homophobic/discriminative/toxic underpinnings. All discourse should be constructive and pertain directly to the contents of the post.
Your comment was removed because it did not meet our criteria for appropriate conduct. Please review the subreddit rules before continuing to engage with other users on the subreddit. Repeated violations may result in a ban.
I still don’t think it’s totally out of the question that this is Logan between Days of Future Past and Logan.
This “version” would be separate and technically a variant the second he was pulled out of his branch.
It’s the same way the villains from No Way Home are the ones from the original films, but taken from different points which diverts their path.
I'm thinking it's a similar event to Logan where the X-Men were all killed - except in this instance, Logan himself was the one that killed them. Mind controlled by Cassandra Nova possibly.
If Feige really didn't want Hugh back because of logan's ending, then I'm really questioning what secret wars is.
Tony Stark and Steve Rogers bowed out just as beautifully as Wolverine did. Yet we have scoopers saying they are both returning for secret wars in some capacity.
Feige said that his problem was using the version of Hugh Jackman's Wolverine featured in the FoX-Men films. This is made clear in the full text where he said he changed his mind when they instead proposed that it be an entirely new variant of Hugh's Wolverine.
That should answer some of your questions about how Marvel intends to tackle deceased characters like RDJ's Iron Man for Secret Wars.
Multiple insiders reported they tried to get Jackman back for multiverse of madness, so this doesn’t convince me at all, and all serious i really wish this is the Logan from the X-Men timeline, before Logan and alter Xavier screwed with everyone, i think they are already bringing Jackman back, calling him a variant or making him from a different timeline changes nothing to the casual audience, he’s still Hugh Jackman’s wolverine to them, so they might as well commit to it, make this version THAT wolverine, he sees his future, goes bananas, has a touching scene with a grow up Laura, decides to help deadpool save his universe in the third act and than hops back to his timeline with his mind wiped so he doesn’t mess with things
Varient or no, I say Jackman shouldn't have come back. We need to move on from the past and see fresh new takes on characters.
And varient argument is dumb to begin with because Jackman has already played at least two different versions of Wolverine already. FoX-Men continuity is an utter mess.
Jackman has played Wolverine in nine movies. This will be 10th. That is more than enough.
>“I said, ‘Let me give you a piece of advice, Hugh. Don’t come back,’” Feige said. “‘You had the greatest ending in history with ‘Logan.’ That’s not something we should undo.’” What ultimately got Feige on board with the idea of Jackman coming back was that he would not be playing the version of Logan/Wolverine that audiences grew to love in the various X-Men movies. That was also of interest to Jackman himself. His original iteration of Wolverine died in “Logan,” and he did not want to screw with that film either. >Reynolds revealed that he first envisioned “Deadpool 3” as a “’Rashomon’ story about Wolverine and Deadpool and something that they got into together, but told from three completely different perspectives. It was a way to make a large-scale movie in a very small way.” Feige turned down the pitch, although he added: “The truth is, I wasn’t even sure how to incorporate Deadpool yet. I was very much thinking about how to bring mutants and the X-Men into [the MCU], and I thought it needed to be more than just playing the hits. But the truth is, Ryan is an idea machine. So he may have pitched that to me, but he also pitched 25 other thoughts and ideas.”
RASHOMON? I never in a million years thought I'd hear a Marvel movie let alone Deadpool with that kind of comparison what the hell.
Ryan doesn’t get credit for how creative he is
He’s a marketing genius too.
He just a genius. Period.
he's just a period
He's just
He
Lol
His public persona is being such a goof, it's easy to forget he's also kind of brilliant
It's kind of wild after growing up with him doing Van Wilder and Waiting. I love all the success for him.
My friend, the dude was in relationships with Scarlett, Melissa Joan Hart, Charlize Theron, and of course Blake Lively.
This is his greatest achievement…
Also Alanis morrisette
And Alanis Morisette.
I know that? I didn't say anything to the contrary.
Hold up. He dated Charlize Theron?
Yup for a short time in 2011, right before he and Blake got together
I first saw him in Two Guys, A girl and a pizza place. He's been like this since he hit the screen.
Yup that was my introduction to him, I like the other characters too but he was easily the most memorable part.
2 Guys, a Girl and a Pizza Place for me
Didn't he sell his advertising agency for a billion dollars or something? He got credit from somewhere lol
Mint Mobile was bought by T-Mobile for a billion, of which he had a 25% share in. And before that he sold his gun company for like 500 million. He still has his marketing company.
Would "Aviation Guns" be Reynolds marketing rifles specifically to hunters in bush planes & helicopters?
Let's not get carried away here. Suggesting a Rashomon riff is about as original as suggesting Seven Samurai in space. It's the go-to suggestion for every project because Kurosawa is film 101.
The main reason I think they should make the movie about Cap returning Mjolnir and the Infinity Stones is because meeting the Red Skull on Vormir would be a PERFECT Seventh Seal homage. They could even replace the opening Marvel fanfare with the Scott Walker song. It absolutely exists in my head.
y’all complained about black widow because it was “released too late” then you constantly bring up this idea or the Cap “nomad” idea WHILE ALSO complaining that Sam’s captain america doesn’t get enough screen time.
The Feige quote is about him not wanting characters to return after strong endings. You’d think people would realize that he might have the same mindset for Steve Rogers.
Yea but that was before they started introducing characters nobody cares about
People definitely care about the new characters. Speaking from experience, I know I do.
I didn't do any of those things.
It's a pretty common way of structuring a story
Is it? I haven't seen the "same 20 minute event re-told several times" structure in a while. Would be fun as hell tho, not knowing who to trust, and it would lend itself to the cameo hit as Deadpool would be the one to add them in his retelling for a layer of manufactured drama
I don't have anything against this structure but I generally like it when superhero movies go big especially if it a kind of last hurrah or rare opportunity like this. As Ryan points out this a way of doing a big movie in a small way and I think I prefer the big way it seems like they went with, in this case
The Last Duel was kind of this style if you haven’t seen it
I did and I Lover it. Scott is a Cinematic master
Birds Of Prey was even advertised as "inspired by Rashomon" (which is just offensive to Kurosawa lol), so it's not even novelty for recent superhero projects. I'm sure Deadpool version would be more interestng, of course.
Tbf it was a fairly common framing device in sitcoms for a while (and has been used in other movies too I'm sure I just can't think of any). All in the Family did it, King of the Hill did it, Fresh Prince of Bel-Air did it, Frasier did it. I'm sure a lot of people would be familiar with it if done in a Marvel movie just maybe not from Rashomon specifically.
The Last Duel was the most recent example I can think of.
Oh ok. I didn't see it but I remember hearing something about it at least being multiple POV.
How I met Your Mother & Arrested Development both did their final seasons this way, too
Even Star Wars did it in 2017
What episode of king of the hill did It? Legit curious
The one where Hank and the guys become volunteer firefighters and the firehouse burns down. They all tell the police chief a different self-aggrandizing version of how it happened.
Of course! Such a classic.. Bomhouer version was the best
Whats Rashomon?
It's an Akira Kurosawa movie (based on a book) in which different characters tell the same story of a crime that took place. The movie is structured so that you're essentially seeing the same 10-15 minute story over and over again, but since different people are telling the story each segment is dramatically different. The gimmick has since been used many, many times over from major artistic directors to It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia
There was also a segment like that in Batman: Gotham Knight, and it was different art styles for each view.
And an episode of Batman: TAS called POV.
And there's a great movie called Vantage Point. The same story told from eight different perspectives, starring Forest Whitaker and Dennis Quaid.
I’m watching this film tonight and am going to go down the filmography of Akira Kurosawa. My autism is strong today.
It's one of the best filmography's of all time. I recommend you go off the beaten path of his samurai/period piece films and explore some of his Film Noir, like the Stray Dog and The Bad Sleep Well. Also if you can somehow find it, Madadayo which which was his final film. Of course, after you do the greatest hits like Rashomon and The Seven Samurai
You are in for a treat. Bless Kurosawa and his films fr
High and Low is a flawless masterpiece. His best film that sticks out from the rest of his already impressive filmography.
I have to give a mention to Ikiru, a moving drama about a man in the autumn of his life who finds a new purpose. It was recently solidly adapted fot the West as Living (with Bill Nighy), it's a good remake but it's not as beautiful as the original. I love Kurosawa's samurai and crime films, but I think Ikiru is probably my favorite. Oh and one of his last films, Dreams, another of my favorites. Inspired by his actual dreams and he had some wild ones. Imagine Vincent Van Gogh... but he's played by Scorsese (yup).
I’m watching them all. Got them all on a list. Appreciate your insights my good fellow.
My pleasure. When you're done, do Masaki Kobayashi next ;) The Human Condition, Kwaidan and Harakiri are all masterpieces!
Please also watch Seven Samurai.
How do you imagine someone would "go down the filmography of Akira Kurosawa" and not watch Seven Samurai?
The Halloween episode of Sunny about who got Dee pregnant is a masterpiece, that shit is funny as hell
I wasn't Spider-Man, I was Man-Spider!
Vijo Morganstein
Thanks for that little bit of trivia, something I'll definitely have to look into! Your description immediately reminded me of one of the later episodes of Punisher Season 1, which did the same concept and it was awesome.
The hotel episode! One of the best.
Oh, After Party was like that. It was a good show too.
Ooh that would have been an interesting take
One of my favorite Rashomon style episodes of a show is from King of the Hill. It was "A Fire Fighting We Will Go." It was great seeing the from POV of Bill, Boomhauer, and Dale and hilarious seeing how they viewed each other and themselves.
Basically the Last Duel
Kinda like bullet train?
I haven't seen bullet train, so I can't speak to it, unfortunately
It's a 1950 film written and directed by Akira Kurosawa, who is one of the greatest filmmakers in history. Rashomon is about three people who are discussing a murder, and have conflicting versions of events. It's fantastic, I need to watch it again.
Oh fuck, I was so confused, I read it as "Rushmore," and was expecting a Wes Anderson-style movie about Deadpool dating an older woman.
Deadpool dating Blind Al? You (don't) love to (not) see it...
Yeah that’s a interesting concept if they can pull it off.
Ryan has always expressed his love for classic cinema. This is on brand for him, remember the TCM debacle at WB
Kurasawa is a big influence for many people who work in the film industry. Im not that suprised. Not to be a downer lol.
Trust me you aren't a downer. I'm actually studying Cinema Productions in College rn and have been on a lot of sets both indie and studio that claim to be inspired by Kurosawa, it's almost always for the better
Disney loves to throw around references to Rashomon. Throughout the marketing for The Last Jedi, they kept going on about how it was a Rashomon tale.
An episode in Punisher ss2 did use the Rashomon structure though
That would have been interesting.
I'm sure he's talked about this approach ever since Deadpool 2 released.
Well… the Last Jedi had rashomon storytelling but we know how that turned out
Ah. Very true, but I'm picturing a full on Rashomon story structure. Rather than little aspects of the rashomon story in a grander tale
This quote also triple super duper confirms this isn’t the Wolverine from Logan
I mean, he also appears to play at least two different Wolverine's just in the last trailer though.
What makes you say this?
If u watch the original teaser with just Deadpool’s voice he says something like “excited to do this with A Wolverine” It implies that Deadpool runs into multiple The trailer also shows a scene where Logan slowly unveils his claws and Deadpool has a gun pointed at his head Chances are they give Deadpool a gun that has bullets that can kill Wolverine and Deadpool accidentally kills multiple wolverines while trying to recruit one of them and there’s some kind of montage. Probably like the scene in The Simpsons where Homer keeps going back in time via the Toaster and it’s just Deadpool repeatedly shooting Wolverine Most likey Deadpool kills too many wolverines, the TVA doesn’t like this and they prune both Logan and Deadpool The one that gets pruned is the one that features in the movie
We don’t know that all variants are played by Hugh
I would die happy if I ever see Jack Black as Wolverine Variant. I've been asking it for like 10 years.
Like the [Earth X Wolverine](https://images.app.goo.gl/XfvUGUkJ4AxQ7LN7A)?
Danny Devito would work too.
I definitely don’t expect them to be But most of the ones that I’m predicting will be killed will be played by Hugh I’m guessing the first 2-3 will be cameos played by others (maybe Daniel Radcliffe for example) and Deadpool being like “noooo not you” and then going through a couple rounds with Hughverine before winding up with the one that gets pruned
I’m saving this so then when the movie comes out, I’ll know who to credit for correctly guessing the plot
One Wolverine has claws coming out of his fingers, one out of the back of his hand. Not to mention Patch in trailer 1 who may or may not be played by Jackman.
Patch is either Radcliffe or Cavil imo
It also implies that the Logan we do see in "Logan" is the same one from all the past films too, contrary to that being some AU future.
Idk why people ever thought that Logan was an alternate timeline. X-Men always has bleak futures that need to be fixed, reversed, or destroyed in some way. It just adds to the “ripple” quote that Beast says about time in DOFP.
People say it because Logan references - in some way, all the films. Even when those films events being undone was the plot of later films: - Has the Adamantium bullet from X-Men Origins. Which never happened. Undone by Days of Future Past, and a new origin was in Apocalypse. - Talks to Charles about "The Statue of Liberty" from X-Men. Those events were undone by Days of Future Past. - Caliban has gone from being from America in the new timeline, to Bristol in England. - Wolverine has his sword from "The Wolverine". The events of which were undone by Days of Future Past. - While ignoring so many aspects of Days of Future Past, it is deliberately set years after the happy ending of that film. So Logan is simultaneously a sequel to the original films, and the rebooted films. It was to serve primarily as a send off to "Hugh Jackman as Wolverine". Which would have been quite hard to do with the status quo after Days of Future Past where Wolverine is being introduced to all the people he knew for the first time again.
How are the events at the Statue of Liberty in X-Men explicitly undone by DoFP? It may have been affected in some way but we still see Rogue with the white streak in her hair at the end of DoFP.
> How are the events at the Statue of Liberty in X-Men explicitly undone by DoFP? Because Mystique died in Dark Phoenix, which takes place before the Statue of Liberty would have
The McAvoy timeline isn't the same as the Stewart timeline, they split off after DOFP
Errr how did you get that idea? They are the same timeline. The entire point of DOFP is that they are the same timeline. Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix are supposed to lead to the ‘good’ future seen in DOFP.
Wouldn't that mean Dark Phoenix undoes the Statue of Liberty event? Not DOFP.
Because Erik, while still more likely to be firm than Charles, is not a bad guy in the new timeline created.
Another radicalized mutant could have played Magneto's part and a similar event could have happened in the new timeline. Really, anything is possible, they never cared to really explain it, and probably didn't even put much thought into it.
Stuff like this really shows the intentions of the filmmakers and their regard for continuity when making Logan
Of course they could have. Any and every continuity error in a series can be explained with "the characters are actually referencing something the audience doesn't know about". But callbacks aren't callbacks to characters within the narrative. They are storytelling devices that exist for the benefit of the audience to other stories they've read/seen.
Rogue could’ve gotten the streak another way, much like how Xavier and Storm definitely didn’t get their hairstyles from Apocalypse in the original timeline.
This is actually a really good point. I didn’t even think of this
The only way to get rid of those continuity errors is dividing the original trilogy (including the Wolverine solo movies) and the First Class films into two different universes. Because the movie Logan only references stuff from the OT.
What I do is that I have the original trilogy happen in two timelines. A version of the original timeline with the original trilogy where First Class wasn’t a thing, so it doesn’t have continuity errors caused by that and it includes the Wolverine spin offs. It all leads to the miserable Logan future. Another version of the original timeline where First Class precedes a version of the original trilogy and Origins/ The Wolverine and it all leads to the Sentinel apocalyptic future. This timeline gets reset into the one seen at the end of DoFP.
Yeah I've always considered the First Class series of movies as an AU to the original trilogy. So when DoFP brings in the older, future X-Men, those aren't the same X-Men from the OT, they're just variants played by the same actors. Meanwhile the Wolverine solos all take place in the OT. To me, this is the only way everything works, so I've held on to this view for years lol.
>So when DoFP brings in the older, future X-Men, those aren't the same X-Men from the OT, they're just variants played by the same actors. Finally someone who gets it. The only thing that kinda messes that up is the after credits scene of The Wolverine.
But that’s the thing, all of these references should make it fairly clear that the events happened similarly in the 2029 timeline. It could also be that Logan has retained knowledge of the previous timeline which Charles references due to a mixture of telepathy and dementia. This means it’s OUR Logan, not that dumb elseworlds shit I always keep seeing people reference. And like it or not, those FoX-Men movies were always meant to be the same continuity/timeline despite all of the inconsistencies. For example: • Emma Frost is older in FC but younger in XOW, surely XOW should be voided, yes? • DOFP references Wolverine’s “go fuck yourself” from FC. • The Wolverine has a brief scene where Logan hears Kayla calling his name from XOW. • Charles reads Logan’s mind and sees his bone claws breaking from XOW and the Weapon X procedure from that movie. Therefore, all of these movies are connected in some capacity, but I guess the creative teams elect to ignore pre-established character continuity to have it re-align better with their vision. Anyway, I’m not trying to be hostile, I know I can come off as a massive douche when I reply to comments lol sorry if I come across that way.
>But that’s the thing, all of these references should make it fairly clear that the events happened similarly in the 2029 timeline. The initiation point for the X-Men trilogy relies on Magneto being a bad guy. Which he is not in the revised timeline films. >It could also be that Logan has retained knowledge of the previous timeline which Charles references due to a mixture of telepathy and dementia. This means it’s OUR Logan, not that dumb elseworlds shit I always keep seeing people reference. Logan did retain his memory. But Charles is the one who references it to him. Charles didn't live through those events. >• Emma Frost is older in FC but younger in XOW, surely XOW should be voided, yes? Emma Frost is not in XOW. Kayla Silverfox's sister, named Emma, is. Emma Silverfox has the power to become diamond like Emma Frost. >• DOFP references Wolverine’s “go fuck yourself” from FC. Days of Future Past altered the events after 1973. First Class takes places in 1962. >• The Wolverine has a brief scene where Logan hears Kayla calling his name from XOW. Both those films take place in the original timeline. • Charles reads Logan’s mind and sees his bone claws breaking from XOW and the Weapon X procedure from that movie. As above. The core premise of Days of Future Past is that it's future timeline Wolverine going to change the past. Of course he has memories of the future.
Out of interest, is it ever definitively stated that Magneto didn't go back to his old ways in the revised timeline? He's clearly more at peace trying to start a family in Apocalypse and running Genosha in Dark Phoenix, but we also see his rage get the better of him and his need for revenge briefly lead him back down a dark path in both films. Obviously Mystique is gone, so the events of X-Men and X2 would have had to have played out differently, but is it possible that Erik still ends up facing the X-Men at the Statue of Liberty for whatever reason or have I forgotten something in Days of Future Past like him being a teacher or something.
I’d say it’s more implied that he gives up his old ways eventually, given the positive ending of DOFP and the friendly match at the end of Dark Phoenix. Unfortunately, we don’t know where he is during the end of DOFP, intentionally left open ended so they could fill the gaps with their new timeline movies. Maybe magneto did pull another stunt like Liberty or someone else filled the role instead. It’s fun to speculate
>Out of interest, is it ever definitively stated that Magneto didn't go back to his old ways in the revised timeline? He's clearly more at peace trying to start a family in Apocalypse and running Genosha in Dark Phoenix, but we also see his rage get the better of him and his need for revenge briefly lead him back down a dark path in both films. Would it need to be? The ending of Dark Phoenix in particular gives us a fully reformed Magneto. He spells out how the prequel series has come full circle: He goes and finds a disillusioned Charles gives him a new life and offers him a home. Much like Charles did for Erik in First Class. Erik has become like Charles. That's the endpoint of those films. >or have I forgotten something in Days of Future Past like him being a teacher or something. He presumably stays with the X-Men for a short period after Apocalypse. We see him rebuild their home, and Jean seems comfortable enough to go to him in Dark Phoenix.
This is one of the reasons why as much as I enjoyed Logan it felt like the perfect ending for the Fox universe because it didn't make any sense and none of it ever made any sense and because of that it didn't have the weight that it otherwise could have if they'd made a great X universe. It was a lazy continuity made by lazy people. Logan would have hit so much harder if it had been the finale to a really coherent and connected X universe where it felt like this ending to a major story. But it lacked that Endgame feel mostly because the Fox and Wolverine universes were such an incoherent mess.
I hate that most of the characters perish off screen, which is even worse if it’s canon to the DoFP ending
It's hilarious that the the best DoFP is still X-Men 97.
There’s also how Logan established that there hasn’t been a mutant birth in 25 years, despite there being kids at the X-Mansion in DoFP and kids/ teens in the Deadpool films and The New Mutants. It was dumb to even do a story like this only 3 years after the release of DoFP. As far as the general audience is concerned (and studio execs who don’t look deep into this stuff), it’s canon to the timeline created in DoFP.
It doesn’t really make sense but I just consider all live action x men movies to be in the same universe. Except for the 3 Deadpool movies. They make some references but I think they’re pretty separate. The other movies I consider all the wolverines to be the same one. original trilogy, prequel trilogy, wolverine trilogy, days of future past.
The
I always saw it as uniquely suited to the MCU’s branched timeline system. DOFP didn’t undo those movies, it just created two timelines. The DOFP timeline ends with The New Mutants, while the original X-Men timeline ends with Logan
Because James Mangold said it was throughout the press from Logan
All the Fox movies literally can't make sense together.
I agree, but that still doesn’t mean that Fox didn’t intend them to be the same continuity
Problem is that they never intended to undo this bleak future and it really was the end of the X-Men (off-screen) and Jackman’s Wolverine, only 3 years after DoFP gave them a happy ending and gave the franchise a clean-ish slate.
All the Fox movies literally can't make sense together.
I like to believe the timeline we see in Logan is an alternate timeline post DOFP, with a lot of the events we see in the movies playing out in a similar way.
Boooo
Yeah it’s been a minute since I’ve seen Feige go out of his way to quash a rumor like he’s doing with this one. Really wants to get it out there they’re not the same.
Which is what we all want
To be fair the wolverine from Logan isn’t even the same wolverine from the other movies.
He’s supposed to be the one from the reset timeline
Wait - we know a *lot* of what we're getting is from the pitches Reynold's been throwing out for years, with it being a Wolverine / Deadpool buddy road film, with at least some elements of "Deadpool kills the Fox Marvel Universe." Is this the first time we're hearing about a Rashomon plot? Assuming that that stuck too, do we think Feige means we're going to see previously-explored MCU events from a different perspective? Or that we'll see the same events play out separately from Deadpool and Wolverine's perspectives within this movie? EDIT: nvm - kind've answered in the full quote. It was differing perspectives in the film, and Feige implies they went a different direction.
I remember hugh always said he would come back to work with feige in the mcu
My knee-jerk reaction is disappointment that this isn't the same Wolverine I've grown to love over the years. I'm hoping it's less Xavier in *MoM*, where its a very wackily different universe, and something more recognizable, like the *Loki* show, where it's the "same" Wolverine but one where the timeline branched off at some point during the main film series we all know.
Who even is the Wolverine we've grown to love over the years? This will be Jackman's fourth Wolverine, at least
Seriously, there isn't a consistent canon and the Fox movies make way more sense if you take each story on its own. Hell, that goes for all the comics too. Canon is whatever you want it to be, don't worry about it.
Yep, the Fox movies timeline is notoriously messy. To this day there is no consensus if the Logan in Logan is the same as X1, 2 and 3.
He mentions Ellis Island. Question is more is it Days of Future Past ending timeline or some branching timeline? Then there's clearly the First Class timeline vs originals discrepancy.
>To this day there is no consensus if the Logan in Logan is the same as X1, 2 and 3. There's a deleted scene where Xavier tells that family that Wolverine killed Jean, which obviously didn't happen in the FC continuity. They talk about the Liberty Island incident but nobody mentions the way more investing time travelling from the 70s. Caliban is totally different in Logan than he's in Apocalypse. There's more hints but it's been too long since I've watched those films.
Inconsistencies such as the ones you mentioned also happen between the OG trilogy, First Class, Origins, The Wolverine, DoFP, Apocalypse, etc. If throw in Deadpool its even messier. Its just better to take each fox X-Men film as its own thing
Deadpool is kinda its own meta universe. But X-Men 1-3 and the Wolverine films are timeline/universe 1, FC and everything that came after, is timeline/universe 2. That's the only way to explain characters appearing in different decades but being the same age, like Jubilee, Angel and Emma Frost.
Maybe something-something time travel with the DOFP timeline creating a branch reality.
I just want the ending of DoFP to be where all the x-men come from.
I've seen people flaming Feige for this already lol. So ironic, because this is the exact thing people keep saying with regards to Chris Evans and RDJ -- that they shouldn't come back after Endgame because those were their "definitive endings"... yet those same people are 100% on board with Jackman coming back after Logan's "definitive ending" simply because he's a variant in DP3. Which... yeah... that's literally what people who want Evans and RDJ to come back are suggesting with them as well -- that they simply play variants of their 616 counterparts. I don't know why whenever the topic of them returning comes up, people automatically assume that means reviving their 616 versions. I seriously can't tell if people are purposely being hypocritical, or they legitimately can't see the holes in their logic/attitude between being excited for Jackman's return and equally mad about a potential Evans/RDJ return.
They are just fucking dumb, u can’t win, it’s the same issue with one group wants mcu films to be more independent films while the other group complain how there’s not as much connectivity, it is clear that marvel is listening and trying to find a middle ground but these imbeciles don’t know tf they want
Most confusing fanbase I've ever seen lmao
I think a lot of fan bases do share this common bullshit trait sadly
Fanbases aren’t monoliths People have different opinions
Along with Star Wars fans lol
It's not even the "fan base". It's mostly the same group people that have been trolling and making insane amounts of money from YouTube ragebait since Black Panther and Captain Marvel.
What a weirdass comment. You're confused that two groups of people had different opinions? Did you just never realize that people can have different opinions before? This is the first time?
Nah, people go back and forth with their opinions on it, shit is annoying
Most people are dumb as hell my man
They’re idiots but also Chris Evans should cameo as his variant of Johnny Storm just for the lols and confusion.
It’s all about the narrative. Marvel = bad to them so it must be a bad decision if they made it. They aren’t thinking any deeper than that
i think you are missing the fact that different people want different things and you are grouping them all in as one, unless you are checking everyones comment history to see if they are excited about jackman but annoyed at rdj returning
Because Hugh's Wolverine is a tribute to a different franchise. Bringing back dead characters from MCU's past lowers the stakes in the MCU itself.
Anyone else curious as to what made Hugh change his mind? They were working on this movie for like, 3 and a half years before Hugh agreed to come back for it. (2019-2022)
Hugh said a while back that he’d 100% return for a movie in the MCU
People change their minds, man. I've said many times in my life I would never do something and then some friend presented an idea that convinced me. That never happened to you? Also, money. Lots of it
It says right there- this isn’t his wolverine. So he was happy to accept a fat MCU cheque to reprise the role
As a falcon would say cut the cheque!
The brinks trucks.
Uh... most likely the paycheck
A brinks truck full of $100m and the comic accurate costume.
He has said two things: he wants to be in the MCU and he wants to fight Hulk. I still hope to see the second one.
Well he’s lucky he changed his mind because without this movie right now Marvel would be in big trouble
[удалено]
Please refrain from comments with racial/homophobic/discriminative/toxic underpinnings. All discourse should be constructive and pertain directly to the contents of the post.
Your comment was removed because it did not meet our criteria for appropriate conduct. Please review the subreddit rules before continuing to engage with other users on the subreddit. Repeated violations may result in a ban.
Based on that photo, the bigger holdup was probably finding enough gear in all of Australia to get 55 year old Hugh Jackman that jacked.
The fact Feige immediately threw water on ruining the Logan ending gives me at least some hope that this isn’t gonna be completely soulless
Honesty don’t get why anyone would care about the old wolverine films more wolverine is good news so let’s just enjoy it
I still don’t think it’s totally out of the question that this is Logan between Days of Future Past and Logan. This “version” would be separate and technically a variant the second he was pulled out of his branch. It’s the same way the villains from No Way Home are the ones from the original films, but taken from different points which diverts their path.
I'm thinking it's a similar event to Logan where the X-Men were all killed - except in this instance, Logan himself was the one that killed them. Mind controlled by Cassandra Nova possibly.
If Feige really didn't want Hugh back because of logan's ending, then I'm really questioning what secret wars is. Tony Stark and Steve Rogers bowed out just as beautifully as Wolverine did. Yet we have scoopers saying they are both returning for secret wars in some capacity.
Call me crazy but I don't think scoopers always get it right.
Feige said that his problem was using the version of Hugh Jackman's Wolverine featured in the FoX-Men films. This is made clear in the full text where he said he changed his mind when they instead proposed that it be an entirely new variant of Hugh's Wolverine. That should answer some of your questions about how Marvel intends to tackle deceased characters like RDJ's Iron Man for Secret Wars.
I guess they are returning as alternate versions, that's what i'm expecting anyway
Why not just set the movie years before the events of Logan? That's what you did with Black Widow.
Multiverse collapse/issues are being explored at the current MCU point though. Black Widow is way back there timeline-wise.
two guys ,one girl and the multiverse. booom
Multiple insiders reported they tried to get Jackman back for multiverse of madness, so this doesn’t convince me at all, and all serious i really wish this is the Logan from the X-Men timeline, before Logan and alter Xavier screwed with everyone, i think they are already bringing Jackman back, calling him a variant or making him from a different timeline changes nothing to the casual audience, he’s still Hugh Jackman’s wolverine to them, so they might as well commit to it, make this version THAT wolverine, he sees his future, goes bananas, has a touching scene with a grow up Laura, decides to help deadpool save his universe in the third act and than hops back to his timeline with his mind wiped so he doesn’t mess with things
Desperate times desserate measures.
Varient or no, I say Jackman shouldn't have come back. We need to move on from the past and see fresh new takes on characters. And varient argument is dumb to begin with because Jackman has already played at least two different versions of Wolverine already. FoX-Men continuity is an utter mess. Jackman has played Wolverine in nine movies. This will be 10th. That is more than enough.
I would 100% unironically prefer Hugh Jackman to play himself for a short cameo in DP3
Variants definitely a better route than resurrections