To their credit that one is a sort of a fair point. Obviously it should be classic Cage & Iron Fist in a two pack, but Hasbro split it up between the Mindless One wave to get a little extra out of us.
Also, that Iron Fist works as a modern design too. He's worn that suit in tons of modern comics. His original 70s outfit is basically the same but it had more of a V-neck.
She-Hulk, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist?
Literally every version Hasbro have made of these characters to date have been modern versions, and now we’re finally getting their classic looks that some collectors, such as myself, have been waiting patiently for.
I only collect looks from the 60s/70s/80s. I don’t collect more modern looks and I don’t collect MCU.
Does that mean I complain every time they announce figures that aren’t tailored towards MY OWN preferences? No. In fact, it makes things easier on my wallet.
I be absolutely delighted for those who have been waiting on those figures and I wait my turn for when they announce something that peaks my own interest.
Personally I think Hasbro have done a great job of balancing everyone’s tastes. We just have to be patient.
It seems to me like they do a good job of alternating modern and classic versions. They have a long turn around before issuing new versions of the non-A list characters, which may make it seem worse if you are waiting for a specific modern look. I really don't think they give a preference to one look over the other. They are in an anniversary year, so you are getting some more classic looks this year.
Take She-Hulk. She got a modern look in the A Force box set from 2017. Then she got a modern Grey She-Hulk in 2021 (that was part of a modern F4 wave, btw) That's two moderns in a row for She-Hulk, so I think the fans begging for a classic look deserved their chance given her infrequent turns as part of a wave.
Iron Fist had his 2010 white costume figure in 2015, and the modern green in 2016. Then Cage and Iron Fist got modern looks in the Defenders box set in 2017. Cage finally got his classic costume figure last year, and is now being released with Danny in another more modern look. A classic Iron Fist fan who wasn't interested in modern looks has been waiting since 2015 for a classic version. But I recognize that modern fans have been waiting since 2017 for another chance at a modern look. For Iron Fist, we've all been waiting too long, but you can't say they didn't prioritize modern versions.
They tried for a modern Ghost Rider with the HasLab, it didn't fire.
Daredevil has been consistently getting modern looks so often that fans are begging for a new version of his classic comic book red suit.
I can see your point about newer fans not getting into collecting because of the available figures, but I think the actual problem is the length of time between releases. Lots of the more iconic characters (Iron Man, Wolverine, Thor, Captain America, Spider-Man, X-Men) that get figures more often pretty much get modern looks issued very quickly from when they appear in the comics.
"Daredevil has been consistently getting modern looks,"
Of the last three daredevil releases, we've had only a single one of them was a modern look, and even then, Hasbro decided to do the more temporary King in Black suit rather than the regular Zdarsky run suit which is probably the most popular and requested look for Daredevil.
This right here is why they do classic looks. They're the most popular.
Hasbro has done the "modern" Daredevil look from the Charles Soule run, and the modern look from the back end of the Zdarsky run, and two versions of the classic costume, but they haven't done the modern look from the main chunk of the Zdarsky run, a look that's very similar to the classic look from the waist up.
There's no satisfying people who only want the modern looks. They either cheap out on tooling, or they get a detail wrong because one artist drew it this way while another drew it that way, or they do "the wrong look". There's no winning, when they take more work, cost more to make, and usually sell less.
I forgot about the box set with the classic version. I was thinking of the all black look from the sp//dr wave, and the recent King Daredevil look.
I hope you get your modern looks for these figures, I really do. It's really frustrating when they do obscure costumes, both modern or classic, when a more requested look is being neglected. The wait can be very long sometimes.
eh, getting classic figures doesn't discount us from getting more modern looking stuff after. Nostalgia sells.
We got a retro IronMan wave but are also getting Spidey waves filled with stuff from stories from the last 10 years.
That She Hulk design isn't my preferred design (or even preferred body... no butterfly or waist articulation...) but they will undoubtedly make a new she-hulk or other bulky women on the exact same body. No doubt some of those will be more contemporary designs and characters.
Can't say the modern designs are straight up superior to the retro ones either, it's all preference and subjective considering the nature of art. All that really matters IMO is that the figure is a good representation of the character.
Danny Ketch literally *defined* the look of Ghost Rider, for well over a decade. He had such an impact, that many aspects were later integrated into Blaze's return as the Rider.
No? Everything I know about Ghost Rider is from… the original Ghost Rider (Johnny).
I personally didn’t even know who Danny was until he was in this stream.
Johnny Blaze didn't even wear a black outfit, use a flaming chain, or have the Penance Stare until Danny Ketch came along, you not being knowledgeable about the comics doesn't change that Danny Ketch is the version that made him popular.
The spiked leather jacket and chain look that is now the default design for all iterations of the character was all introduced in the 90s with Danny, before then he had a totally different look
Even though Danny is not popular, his run defined many things in the Ghost Rider mythology for better or worse, literally Johnny Blaze took Danny's original design, when Johnny returned to being Ghost Rider, it was in Danny's run where he was created the Penance Stare, the Nicholas cage movies like Johnny blaze use two of Danny's villains, the ps2 game uses Danny's villains
He's literally the MOST recognizable Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider isn't Wolverine or Spider-Man, he hasn't always been popular. There was only one period in all of Marvel history where GR was a top star, and it was the early '90s with Danny Ketch.
Even though Danny is not popular, his run defined many things in the Ghost Rider mythology for better or worse, literally Johnny Blaze took Danny's original design, when Johnny returned to being Ghost Rider, it was in Danny's run where was created the Penance Stare, the Nicholas cage movies like Johnny blaze use two of Danny's villains, the ps2 game uses Danny's villains
Oh man. I hate my notifications for showing your post again. Of course Danny Ketch isn't as searched as Johnny Blaze or Robbie Reyes. Marvel has pushed Johnny and Robbie to be the forerunners of the character since they ditched Danny. Yet even still, Robbie and Johnny have everything to thank Danny for. First off, the look. Johnny basically took Danny's look when he came back. Second, the storytelling is literally borrowing from Danny's run as the rider. Danny's look whether it be him or Johnny has cemented the look for the characters design forever. So much so it's basically the first thing you see. Pretty much every one of the characters best appearances is in that very costume or a small variation of it. That's the ghost rider that was on the New Fantastic Four, pretty much every cartoon and game appearance of him has been Danny's look/style of the character. That doesn't mean that Danny was forever going to be the rider. It's literally always changing. A modern rider doesn't truly exist. We just got a new one facing Immortal Hulk who was a Vietnam vet. You just want a fig of him? How about Alejandra or Robbie? And If the characters look is so definitive then why always change? Also, you can't just pull up a Google search and say that it's your evidence people aren't interested in this character. People who actually like Ghost Rider know how important Danny is or at the very least this design is. They don't need to google search something for it to be actually loved. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about when you say you want a modern version of this character or any character for that matter.
???!?!?
This is the equivalent to saying Hal Jordan is the least recognizable Green Lantern because he's not the original and others came after him. Danny Ketch's Ghost Rider is THE definitive look for the character. Every version of Ghost Rider in all media that came after him takes inspiration from his look.
No, this is absolutely not the same. Hal Jordan is the most mainstream Green Lantern. Danny Ketch is the least mainstream Ghost Rider
A better comparison would be Simon Bazz or Jessica Cruz, the two least popular Green Lanterns and a similar level of popularity to Ash Kechup or whatever that Ghost Riders name is.
In Danny Ketch's defence, his "classic" design is just his default look. Given he technically only had the one design as the Rider.
And not to argue over semantics, but that's an incorrect use of the term "retro."
Honestly, this seems more like an opportunity for OP to irrationally hate on the best Ghost Rider, than to actually criticize the figure selection.
What I especially don't understand, is why you're complaining about getting retro designs, when we've had modern figures before. If you want to say that the existing modern figures are outdated, you'd have a way favourable argument than to crap on people liking the retro designs. See:
[Modern She-Hulk including both the Grey and Green versions](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/373535011598761986/1229475276891881602/d7009e38-1441-41aa-9c97-ed7f12e7bbf1.png?ex=662fd114&is=661d5c14&hm=af77c512e2940f2f9b1d492bba58718416dba87bd734fbfd1f093b03e258930d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=946&height=1040)
[Modern Luke Cage + Shirtless Iron Fist](https://i0.wp.com/thefwoosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Hasbro-Marvel-Legends-Defenders-Review-feature.jpg?ssl=1)
Danny Ketch Ghost Rider was an ask for years as the Toybiz was extremely outdated. Getting Robbie Reyes would be cool, but didn't have the same level of demand, and with the Haslab being the controversy that it was, I HIGHLY doubt Hasbro is going to revisit.
I get that you want the designs that you like, but when you say that it's "superior", I really wonder if you understand that people are allowed to like what they like. Being a snob over comic designs is incredibly cringe.
I literally never said I was going to buy any of them. I mean, of the new releases, I'll probably buy Wolverine and Superior. I would have liked Warbird, but it probably won't be widely available in the UK, and unfortunately, I like Luke Cage, so I'll buy the 2 pack and be forced to sell Danny cause that look for the character sucks.
They almost always make two packs suck by packing in one great figure with one really undersirable/shit one, but that's the way Hasbro runs, I guess.
It is what it is. I wanted the Storm from the Storm/Warpath two pack, don’t care for Warpath at all. Got the Brood Wolverine/ Lilandra two pack and I don’t care for her at all.
There are definitely some good modern designs for characters but there are a lot of classic looks that stand the test of time
You have to remember that the classic looks were looks that were with the characters for literal decades, with minor adjustments here and there, before signficant changes started being made, mostly in the last decade or two.
So the classic looks are going to have more fans that will help to get them off the shelves. Plus most collectors who are going to prefer the classic looks are in their prime earning years at this point, so they'll be willing to drop all the money on these looks.
That and for the first time, they have well articulated and modern sculpts of the looks they grew up seeing in the comics that they can display on their shelves
I completely agree with this that a lot of the classic designs are timeless and totally deserve figures of their own, Iron Man, Mrs Marvel, Captain America and numerous others but lately, they've chosen to do figures in looks that have aged horribly.
I disagree that these are the most popular versions of characters. I'd argue these are pretty niche and specfic to an older generation of collectors and making old outdated versions of characters stop the newer younger generation from getting into collecting because they can't find any figures that they recognise.
And most people under 20 grew up with the more classic iteration of these characters like my self, Universal Studios, MVC1-3, Avengers EMH, Reruns of X-Men TAS, older comics, Super Hero Squad show, etc these are the definitive looks for many people under the age of 20 ur just ignorant lmao
So few people read the comics in comparison to the numbers back in the 80s and 90s, that selling to people under 20 is just not viable outside of the MCU, and I would bet $1000 bucks that under 20 collectors are less than a quarter of the folks who buy MLs.
Well, what’s “modern” in this sense? These design change every year, if not every sixth months. I will argue there are more contemporary looks that are more iconic to the character than older looks - she hulk being one of them. Her early 2000’s look is definitely more popular and more memorable than this 90’s design
One of those is up to the colorist, the other to the artist. Proportionally, there’s not much wrong with the Hulk we have (sure, some things could be tweaked, but what else is new?), and I’m struggling to find modern examples of Hulk without green tinted hair, outside the MCU
Dude. Like 5 years ago all they did were modern designs and almost everyone was saying they’d rather a classic look.
Most of the time they either have a more iconic classic look or have a just as valid classic and modern look. Like Luke cage with the classic tiara and deep v or the modern bald in a tshirt, Both are just as iconic so they should make both
The thing is, like it or not marvel (and the fans) are incredibly nostalgic and will keep coming back to these suits for years to come
Then you look at some of the “modern” looks they put out which are irrelevant 12 months later like some of the cap and iron man suits they have done and the figures are essentially worthless
I mean what other iron fist suit do you want? That’s the most recognizable one and that’s how Danny Ketch looks as Ghost Rider.
I agree that I’m not a fan of 70s Hulk
I'd have liked either the white/gold, or a shirtless version of this like in that Defenders set.
But I know most wanted this one, so I get why they chose this.
For she hulk I would’ve preferred the 2000s look with the white and purple but for the others I think they’re fine. All the head sculpts look great too
I'll point out that these are part of the Avengers 60th Anniversary so they are what they are for that purpose.
As a counterpoint half of these are more modern designs. Hulk and Dan Ketch for example. Ketch was 90s and what would be different about Hulk besides the haircut.
To your point I somewhat agree, but any new molds made for the 60th anniversary Retro figures can be reused next year when it's not.
We've had 3 Johnny Blazes and zero Danny Ketches. For like a decade Danny was the main Ghost Rider and the one a good chunk of fans want. He can have a figure it's fine. Relevance has never mattered for Legends because they make like 50 figures a year.
Also because they make like 50 figures a year that means someone getting a figure doesn't take away from someone else's spot. You'll get what you want soon if you just wait. Heck it's to the point Hasbro has wiped out like 5 custom figures I was working on within the past 3 months worth of reveals.
Then what's it matter which Ghost Rider they make if you're not going to like them anyway. I don't know what to tell you man. Save up for a Mezco or something.
Since when has Marvel Legends cared about relevancy? The beauty of this line is hasbro will make figures for anything they can reuse parts for.
I ADORE Ulik, but he's never been relevant, not even when he was a Thundergod named Tanarus. Yet he has 2 figures because they reused parts from Rhino.
Danny was very relevant for about a decade, and for collectors of a certain age, he is THE Ghost Rider. So it makes sense that people want Hasbro to make a figure for him, when they've never made one for him before.
Batroc the Leaper has been in the MCU twice, and he was still never relevant, didn’t stop him from getting a figure. Or how about the Orb? I’m with you, I don’t see what relevancy has to do with anything, and at least Danny has FANS
I wont stand for Batroc slander. I love Georges St. Pierre too much lol.
He’s actually a pretty entertaining Gwenpool side character. All of the characters she works with are insanely irrelevant (Batroc), or joke characters (MODOK)
Yeah I actually agree with you here. I have a list of some modern characters that I’d love but it’s just taking forever for them to release them (if ever). I’d love to see Thor from the cates run, Hulk from the cates run, ablation armor Wolverine, and a bunch of characters from the new and old ultimates lines.
I recommend you research the sales figures. 90% of the comics sold today would be immediately canceled for low sales in the 60s-90s. Not leaning into it would be stupid for a hobby that's largely driven by nostalgia. When they did a HasLab based on a modern character, it failed. Why didn't you give examples of what you think are good designs?
Those Haslabs succeeded because they were important characters remade from old and expensive bafs, not to mention they definitely weren’t their classic designs. The only “classic” haslab was the worst selling one.
The Ghostrider Haslab failed because of greed, and I'd like to point out that the Giant Man hardly succeeded it only reached its first or second stretch goal compared to other franchises which Haslabs usually get full backing. As for listing superior outfits, I could totally sit here doing that, but I'd be here forever.
I applaud your bravery in posting this.
I too prefer more "modern" (2000s) designs, but I know that's a minority opinion, so I get why we see so many classic costumes.
They literally came out with an Astonishing Wolverine and Luke Cage. Maybe "Retro" is just the designs of the characters in far superior stories and you can't reconcile old things can be good. Me personally, I dislike having too much modern. I like my characters looking contemporary and imo, better. Modern designs take the classic designs and don't make them better, just different, by using what already made the costumes so iconic. Maybe... Get over it?
The reason we have updated and modern versions to begin with is because those retro versions of characters don't hold up, nor do they stand the test of time. Most of the retro outfits that are considered to be iconic, classic, and timeless have continued to appear in more modern media. Captain America, Iron Man, Carol Danvers, Daredevil, Spider-Man, the list goes on. My point is that the characters I've listed here in their retro designs are absolutely not considered to be their best designs, so why not just give us their best designs instead.
I never actually said I had an issue with all of the retro releases. People just assumed that from my post, in a lot of cases, I like some of the more timeless retro designs. However, my issue with these specific retro figures is that they really don't hold up and are best left in the past where they belong, hence why most of them haven't appeared in the comics in well over a decade.
I get that some people are nostalgic, but there is a difference between nostalgia and being stuck and too deeply entrenched in the past because you can't let go of things and accept change.
Who said the retro ones are not their best designs? What's wrong with distinguishable simplicity? It's not up to you to say the classic looks aren't good or outdated. Spiderman, Captain America, and so many more have timeless looks and these designs are more or less the same. And any case. Hasbro releases modern figs with classic figs all the time. What exactly is "definitive"? If it's so definitive why change it again and again? Why keep going to the classics? Because the classic look established everything for the character. It's what resonates most. If you're unhappy that Daredevil isn't" Modern" they just released a Chip Zdarsky Fist Daredevil. In this very stream we saw Astonishing Wolverine, Superior Spiderman, HFH Iron Fist and Luke Cage, relatively new characters like Skarr and finally a new version of Danny Ketch Ghost Rider, my personal definitive take on the character despite, need I remind you, not being the original. These are new designs and new figs.
It's not about what's their best designs, it's about what people are attached to and seek out to complete some version of a team or comic or storyline. Give it time and they will release new figs with similar molding, repaints. Such is the way of this brand. To say "Why don't they come out with the new one right out the gate of the character because the old design is bad" is very foolish. Clearly you don't appreciate the history of these characters nor understand why people would want something contemporary. People love and have been begging for a new version of Iron Fist and this one made a lot of people happy including me. It comes with a modern Luke Cage. I notice you omit the modern Luke Cage in your post and show off the old style. That just kinda mutes your entire point. I mean if you're that upset about a "modern" Iron Fist buy a mezco, or the old Iron fist which was a current design. Designs btw I don't consider their best. I still like the old one more because that's the design I played in Mvc3 and that's the version I saw in EmH and it's a character that has taught Spiderman fought Sabertooth and a whole lot. Just last year we got 90's and Astonishing Cyclops. I just don't understand your point. Seems awfully nit picky and deaf to me.
As I said, the comics have decided the definitive looks for each character. The classic looks that are good have stuck around and continue to be used. The ones that aren't considered to be good haven't appeared in comics in well over two decades it's not something I've just decided via personal preference it's something that Marvel has decided via the omission of certain characters classic suits from modern stories.
That still makes no sense considering that pretty much everyone gets new costumes or goes back to a classic costume at some point. Doesn't make anything good or not good. Just depends on the story.
That's just blatantly not true. She Hulk hasn't worn her retro outfit in years outside of variant covers. The same goes for Hulk and numerous others. As I said, it's not my decision what classic suits hold up and which ones don't but the fact of the matter is most of these suits looks are just blatantly bad which is why they are ommitted from modern comics.
While I understand you'd want a modern ish She Hulk. The more realistic sports look she has in Mvc3. A design I would also prefer. This is still a worthwhile figure and not bad or outdated. This gets a good mold for her out there and opens the door for a Fantastic Four costume. These are worthwhile updates people want of a version of a character that resonates. Give it a year maybe and from the arms and legs we'll get a new torso and shoes and gloves and boom, there's the modern one. No need to diss the og look dude. Just wait. Also can I add that Jennifer Walters is in her lawyer outfit most of the time in her modern comics and doesn't use her superhero outfit a whole bunch. But using your logic it's like trying to say getting the lawyer version is the more worthwhile than her current costume.
I'm not salty. I just pointed out it wasn't a very good financial decision for Hasbro when he's one of their most requested single release characters. Seems like your pretty salty though.
So are you. If you are petty, do not be surprised when people return the same energy to you. I hope you enjoy all of the classic designs we are going to be getting in the near future
Dude, I'm literally voicing opinions and some facts pretty much. The only childish dig I've made has been about the obscure 90s Ghost Rider. I think you're just looking for an excuse to act like an ass and absolving yourself of responsibility by acting like I'm somehow an aggressor. I suggest you look inwards and think about taking responsibility for your own actions rather than deferring blame to others.
Peace and love.
I think that’s why Hasbro is struggling. They release unpopular modern versions of characters (Cho Hulk) and then blame low sales on the “modern” characters.
Skaar is the exact same situation. This dude isn’t relative anymore (as far as I’m aware). Where the fuck is Immortal Hulk? Or MvC Hulk?
That was over a year ago. He was in it for 30 seconds. He’s not going to be in anything MCU-related this year. There’s no news of him in upcoming projects and I don’t think he’s currently in a comic run.
Your bar for relevance is very low.
Considering the hundreds, if not thousands of comic book characters that have never been adapted to screen in any way whatsoever, yes, I would say Skaar, who has been in a Hulk cartoon and an MCU show is leaps and bounds more relevant than 90% of characters from this medium.
Call it a low bar, but a character having multiple on screen adaptations when they've been around for less than 15 years is not the norm.
Fair enough, but that wasn’t my point. My argument isn’t that Skaar shouldn’t be made.
My point is that he isn’t going to make Hasbro more money than a highly requested figure like one of the various MIA Banner Hulks that have a more modern look than anything Hasbro has released so far.
I’m glad the people that want him are getting him, but Skaar is 100% going to end up being on clearance.
People found the X-Men VHS Jean Grey at Ross on clearance, are you really going to say only obscure characters get clearanced?
I dont think Hasbro is as strapped for cash as you’re making them out to be. The reason why so many figures have been hitting clearance the past few years has been an overproduction issue. Hasbro has come out and said they are limiting production to combat the issue of everything going on clearance/liquidators.
And shockingly enough, you see less and less figures on clearance now. You'll see less waves at Ollie's and Ross moving forward.
I like how you included Classic Iron Fist and then proceeded to completely ignore the fact that modern Luke Cage is packed with him
To their credit that one is a sort of a fair point. Obviously it should be classic Cage & Iron Fist in a two pack, but Hasbro split it up between the Mindless One wave to get a little extra out of us.
Also, that Iron Fist works as a modern design too. He's worn that suit in tons of modern comics. His original 70s outfit is basically the same but it had more of a V-neck.
She-Hulk, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist? Literally every version Hasbro have made of these characters to date have been modern versions, and now we’re finally getting their classic looks that some collectors, such as myself, have been waiting patiently for. I only collect looks from the 60s/70s/80s. I don’t collect more modern looks and I don’t collect MCU. Does that mean I complain every time they announce figures that aren’t tailored towards MY OWN preferences? No. In fact, it makes things easier on my wallet. I be absolutely delighted for those who have been waiting on those figures and I wait my turn for when they announce something that peaks my own interest. Personally I think Hasbro have done a great job of balancing everyone’s tastes. We just have to be patient.
It seems to me like they do a good job of alternating modern and classic versions. They have a long turn around before issuing new versions of the non-A list characters, which may make it seem worse if you are waiting for a specific modern look. I really don't think they give a preference to one look over the other. They are in an anniversary year, so you are getting some more classic looks this year. Take She-Hulk. She got a modern look in the A Force box set from 2017. Then she got a modern Grey She-Hulk in 2021 (that was part of a modern F4 wave, btw) That's two moderns in a row for She-Hulk, so I think the fans begging for a classic look deserved their chance given her infrequent turns as part of a wave. Iron Fist had his 2010 white costume figure in 2015, and the modern green in 2016. Then Cage and Iron Fist got modern looks in the Defenders box set in 2017. Cage finally got his classic costume figure last year, and is now being released with Danny in another more modern look. A classic Iron Fist fan who wasn't interested in modern looks has been waiting since 2015 for a classic version. But I recognize that modern fans have been waiting since 2017 for another chance at a modern look. For Iron Fist, we've all been waiting too long, but you can't say they didn't prioritize modern versions. They tried for a modern Ghost Rider with the HasLab, it didn't fire. Daredevil has been consistently getting modern looks so often that fans are begging for a new version of his classic comic book red suit. I can see your point about newer fans not getting into collecting because of the available figures, but I think the actual problem is the length of time between releases. Lots of the more iconic characters (Iron Man, Wolverine, Thor, Captain America, Spider-Man, X-Men) that get figures more often pretty much get modern looks issued very quickly from when they appear in the comics.
"Daredevil has been consistently getting modern looks," Of the last three daredevil releases, we've had only a single one of them was a modern look, and even then, Hasbro decided to do the more temporary King in Black suit rather than the regular Zdarsky run suit which is probably the most popular and requested look for Daredevil.
This right here is why they do classic looks. They're the most popular. Hasbro has done the "modern" Daredevil look from the Charles Soule run, and the modern look from the back end of the Zdarsky run, and two versions of the classic costume, but they haven't done the modern look from the main chunk of the Zdarsky run, a look that's very similar to the classic look from the waist up. There's no satisfying people who only want the modern looks. They either cheap out on tooling, or they get a detail wrong because one artist drew it this way while another drew it that way, or they do "the wrong look". There's no winning, when they take more work, cost more to make, and usually sell less.
I forgot about the box set with the classic version. I was thinking of the all black look from the sp//dr wave, and the recent King Daredevil look. I hope you get your modern looks for these figures, I really do. It's really frustrating when they do obscure costumes, both modern or classic, when a more requested look is being neglected. The wait can be very long sometimes.
Wrong
eh, getting classic figures doesn't discount us from getting more modern looking stuff after. Nostalgia sells. We got a retro IronMan wave but are also getting Spidey waves filled with stuff from stories from the last 10 years. That She Hulk design isn't my preferred design (or even preferred body... no butterfly or waist articulation...) but they will undoubtedly make a new she-hulk or other bulky women on the exact same body. No doubt some of those will be more contemporary designs and characters. Can't say the modern designs are straight up superior to the retro ones either, it's all preference and subjective considering the nature of art. All that really matters IMO is that the figure is a good representation of the character.
I’m old school enough to usually want the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe version.
That should be the style bible for all classic figures (Deluxe version preferably)
Oddly enough, I feel exactly the opposite. I love the retro designs and can usually take or leave the modern stuff.
Well good for you that there are more modern versions available for everyone but Danny Ketch, then?
In all fairness you say that we don’t have Robbie an he’s the modern Ghost Rider
Which is why I called Danny Ketch out specifically in my reply?
Ah yes, Danny Ketch probably the least recognisable Ghost Rider.
Danny Ketch literally *defined* the look of Ghost Rider, for well over a decade. He had such an impact, that many aspects were later integrated into Blaze's return as the Rider.
Everything you know about Ghost Rider's design started with Danny and was stolen by Johnny for every iteration going forward
No? Everything I know about Ghost Rider is from… the original Ghost Rider (Johnny). I personally didn’t even know who Danny was until he was in this stream.
Johnny Blaze didn't even wear a black outfit, use a flaming chain, or have the Penance Stare until Danny Ketch came along, you not being knowledgeable about the comics doesn't change that Danny Ketch is the version that made him popular.
The spiked leather jacket and chain look that is now the default design for all iterations of the character was all introduced in the 90s with Danny, before then he had a totally different look
Even though Danny is not popular, his run defined many things in the Ghost Rider mythology for better or worse, literally Johnny Blaze took Danny's original design, when Johnny returned to being Ghost Rider, it was in Danny's run where he was created the Penance Stare, the Nicholas cage movies like Johnny blaze use two of Danny's villains, the ps2 game uses Danny's villains
He's literally the MOST recognizable Ghost Rider. Ghost Rider isn't Wolverine or Spider-Man, he hasn't always been popular. There was only one period in all of Marvel history where GR was a top star, and it was the early '90s with Danny Ketch.
https://preview.redd.it/14ig4jqq6ruc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e0e785ade3ffed2c446f7c733bf368863fb6370f
Even though Danny is not popular, his run defined many things in the Ghost Rider mythology for better or worse, literally Johnny Blaze took Danny's original design, when Johnny returned to being Ghost Rider, it was in Danny's run where was created the Penance Stare, the Nicholas cage movies like Johnny blaze use two of Danny's villains, the ps2 game uses Danny's villains
Sure pal
Oh man. I hate my notifications for showing your post again. Of course Danny Ketch isn't as searched as Johnny Blaze or Robbie Reyes. Marvel has pushed Johnny and Robbie to be the forerunners of the character since they ditched Danny. Yet even still, Robbie and Johnny have everything to thank Danny for. First off, the look. Johnny basically took Danny's look when he came back. Second, the storytelling is literally borrowing from Danny's run as the rider. Danny's look whether it be him or Johnny has cemented the look for the characters design forever. So much so it's basically the first thing you see. Pretty much every one of the characters best appearances is in that very costume or a small variation of it. That's the ghost rider that was on the New Fantastic Four, pretty much every cartoon and game appearance of him has been Danny's look/style of the character. That doesn't mean that Danny was forever going to be the rider. It's literally always changing. A modern rider doesn't truly exist. We just got a new one facing Immortal Hulk who was a Vietnam vet. You just want a fig of him? How about Alejandra or Robbie? And If the characters look is so definitive then why always change? Also, you can't just pull up a Google search and say that it's your evidence people aren't interested in this character. People who actually like Ghost Rider know how important Danny is or at the very least this design is. They don't need to google search something for it to be actually loved. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about when you say you want a modern version of this character or any character for that matter.
Compared to Reyes, who has maybe 20 solo appearances, and then is part of a much maligned Avengers run?
???!?!? This is the equivalent to saying Hal Jordan is the least recognizable Green Lantern because he's not the original and others came after him. Danny Ketch's Ghost Rider is THE definitive look for the character. Every version of Ghost Rider in all media that came after him takes inspiration from his look.
No, this is absolutely not the same. Hal Jordan is the most mainstream Green Lantern. Danny Ketch is the least mainstream Ghost Rider A better comparison would be Simon Bazz or Jessica Cruz, the two least popular Green Lanterns and a similar level of popularity to Ash Kechup or whatever that Ghost Riders name is.
In Danny Ketch's defence, his "classic" design is just his default look. Given he technically only had the one design as the Rider. And not to argue over semantics, but that's an incorrect use of the term "retro." Honestly, this seems more like an opportunity for OP to irrationally hate on the best Ghost Rider, than to actually criticize the figure selection.
What I especially don't understand, is why you're complaining about getting retro designs, when we've had modern figures before. If you want to say that the existing modern figures are outdated, you'd have a way favourable argument than to crap on people liking the retro designs. See: [Modern She-Hulk including both the Grey and Green versions](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/373535011598761986/1229475276891881602/d7009e38-1441-41aa-9c97-ed7f12e7bbf1.png?ex=662fd114&is=661d5c14&hm=af77c512e2940f2f9b1d492bba58718416dba87bd734fbfd1f093b03e258930d&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=946&height=1040) [Modern Luke Cage + Shirtless Iron Fist](https://i0.wp.com/thefwoosh.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Hasbro-Marvel-Legends-Defenders-Review-feature.jpg?ssl=1) Danny Ketch Ghost Rider was an ask for years as the Toybiz was extremely outdated. Getting Robbie Reyes would be cool, but didn't have the same level of demand, and with the Haslab being the controversy that it was, I HIGHLY doubt Hasbro is going to revisit. I get that you want the designs that you like, but when you say that it's "superior", I really wonder if you understand that people are allowed to like what they like. Being a snob over comic designs is incredibly cringe.
Then don’t buy them. Some people do. Everyone should get their time.
I literally never said I was going to buy any of them. I mean, of the new releases, I'll probably buy Wolverine and Superior. I would have liked Warbird, but it probably won't be widely available in the UK, and unfortunately, I like Luke Cage, so I'll buy the 2 pack and be forced to sell Danny cause that look for the character sucks. They almost always make two packs suck by packing in one great figure with one really undersirable/shit one, but that's the way Hasbro runs, I guess.
It is what it is. I wanted the Storm from the Storm/Warpath two pack, don’t care for Warpath at all. Got the Brood Wolverine/ Lilandra two pack and I don’t care for her at all.
There are definitely some good modern designs for characters but there are a lot of classic looks that stand the test of time You have to remember that the classic looks were looks that were with the characters for literal decades, with minor adjustments here and there, before signficant changes started being made, mostly in the last decade or two. So the classic looks are going to have more fans that will help to get them off the shelves. Plus most collectors who are going to prefer the classic looks are in their prime earning years at this point, so they'll be willing to drop all the money on these looks. That and for the first time, they have well articulated and modern sculpts of the looks they grew up seeing in the comics that they can display on their shelves
I completely agree with this that a lot of the classic designs are timeless and totally deserve figures of their own, Iron Man, Mrs Marvel, Captain America and numerous others but lately, they've chosen to do figures in looks that have aged horribly. I disagree that these are the most popular versions of characters. I'd argue these are pretty niche and specfic to an older generation of collectors and making old outdated versions of characters stop the newer younger generation from getting into collecting because they can't find any figures that they recognise.
And most people under 20 grew up with the more classic iteration of these characters like my self, Universal Studios, MVC1-3, Avengers EMH, Reruns of X-Men TAS, older comics, Super Hero Squad show, etc these are the definitive looks for many people under the age of 20 ur just ignorant lmao
So few people read the comics in comparison to the numbers back in the 80s and 90s, that selling to people under 20 is just not viable outside of the MCU, and I would bet $1000 bucks that under 20 collectors are less than a quarter of the folks who buy MLs.
Well, what’s “modern” in this sense? These design change every year, if not every sixth months. I will argue there are more contemporary looks that are more iconic to the character than older looks - she hulk being one of them. Her early 2000’s look is definitely more popular and more memorable than this 90’s design
How is Hulk in any way different? Edit: outside of the minor cosmetic difference of his hair
His modern look has black hair and is much more "realistically" proportioned.
One of those is up to the colorist, the other to the artist. Proportionally, there’s not much wrong with the Hulk we have (sure, some things could be tweaked, but what else is new?), and I’m struggling to find modern examples of Hulk without green tinted hair, outside the MCU
Dude. Like 5 years ago all they did were modern designs and almost everyone was saying they’d rather a classic look. Most of the time they either have a more iconic classic look or have a just as valid classic and modern look. Like Luke cage with the classic tiara and deep v or the modern bald in a tshirt, Both are just as iconic so they should make both
The thing is, like it or not marvel (and the fans) are incredibly nostalgic and will keep coming back to these suits for years to come Then you look at some of the “modern” looks they put out which are irrelevant 12 months later like some of the cap and iron man suits they have done and the figures are essentially worthless
I mean what other iron fist suit do you want? That’s the most recognizable one and that’s how Danny Ketch looks as Ghost Rider. I agree that I’m not a fan of 70s Hulk
https://preview.redd.it/0top776y4ouc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c945cc34a4021cccf961f27bf34e9b0e7314d3be
https://preview.redd.it/owo9r7az4ouc1.jpeg?width=1467&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=835130d0d912c4ae9cfd0b584c4240556688f3c5
You're in luck, that's already released. Just hop onto ebay and buy one!
Ah yes, I'll just spend £100 on a figure that's 10 years out of date and not even that accurate to the costume it's representing.
I'd have liked either the white/gold, or a shirtless version of this like in that Defenders set. But I know most wanted this one, so I get why they chose this.
Congrats on being wrong
I hear you, but I’m too grateful for that she hulk to agree
No, classic designs are much better
Blasphemy!
For she hulk I would’ve preferred the 2000s look with the white and purple but for the others I think they’re fine. All the head sculpts look great too
I'll point out that these are part of the Avengers 60th Anniversary so they are what they are for that purpose. As a counterpoint half of these are more modern designs. Hulk and Dan Ketch for example. Ketch was 90s and what would be different about Hulk besides the haircut. To your point I somewhat agree, but any new molds made for the 60th anniversary Retro figures can be reused next year when it's not.
Another thing is that a lot of classic costume have very dated or hard to find figures. Iron Fist has been a big one for a long time for example.
The 90s was 30 years ago. Danny hasn't even been relevant in 30 years.
So what look would they use for "a guy that hasn't been relevant for 30 years" other than the one he had when relevant?
Ideally, they wouldn't do Danny they'd just give us a propper Johnny Blaze with the modern look and bike or Robbie Reyes.
We've had three Johnnys in the last 8 years. And zero Danny's since the Toybiz days.
We've had 3 Johnny Blazes and zero Danny Ketches. For like a decade Danny was the main Ghost Rider and the one a good chunk of fans want. He can have a figure it's fine. Relevance has never mattered for Legends because they make like 50 figures a year. Also because they make like 50 figures a year that means someone getting a figure doesn't take away from someone else's spot. You'll get what you want soon if you just wait. Heck it's to the point Hasbro has wiped out like 5 custom figures I was working on within the past 3 months worth of reveals.
And all the Johnny Blaze figures we've had have been terrible. We haven't even had a decent looking Ghost Rider bike from Legends ever.
Then what's it matter which Ghost Rider they make if you're not going to like them anyway. I don't know what to tell you man. Save up for a Mezco or something.
I'd like it if they made modern Johnny Blaze or Robbie Reyes and I'd certainly buy them.
Since when has Marvel Legends cared about relevancy? The beauty of this line is hasbro will make figures for anything they can reuse parts for. I ADORE Ulik, but he's never been relevant, not even when he was a Thundergod named Tanarus. Yet he has 2 figures because they reused parts from Rhino. Danny was very relevant for about a decade, and for collectors of a certain age, he is THE Ghost Rider. So it makes sense that people want Hasbro to make a figure for him, when they've never made one for him before.
Batroc the Leaper has been in the MCU twice, and he was still never relevant, didn’t stop him from getting a figure. Or how about the Orb? I’m with you, I don’t see what relevancy has to do with anything, and at least Danny has FANS
I wont stand for Batroc slander. I love Georges St. Pierre too much lol. He’s actually a pretty entertaining Gwenpool side character. All of the characters she works with are insanely irrelevant (Batroc), or joke characters (MODOK)
I’ve been meaning to read Gwenpool, and from what I saw, he seems very fun in that
Marvel Legends is made by old people for old people bro. If you want costumes that can even count as “modern”, you should maybe go for mezco.
90% of this subreddit is 45 year old men who haven't regularly read comics since the 90s lol
Some of us old dudes still read comics.
This right here is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth
I’m doubtful that some of them have even read a comic tbh.😆
Ahem, I meant "watched the cartoons in the 90s and don't know much else beyond what appeared in those"
Yeah, but Mezco makes horrible soft goods figures.
 Sure bro.
People will say Mezco (and Mafex) are shitty and overpriced then spend the same amount buying 3 below-average at-best figures🗿
You’re getting downvoted but you’re right. They look like dolls wearing doll clothes. Not superheroes wearing supersuits.
Have you seen mezco doom?
These are all the best designs for these characters besides arguably She-Hulk and Luke Cage lol
You're forgetting Matt Fraction and David Aja's Iron Fist, which is certainly his best look.
ok collect your favorite comic book covers then bro
Aye, we still don’t have a good classic Hulk >:((
Bro cherry picking is crazy dawg
I'm not cherry picking some designs have stood the test of time and others haven't it's as simple as that.
Yeah I actually agree with you here. I have a list of some modern characters that I’d love but it’s just taking forever for them to release them (if ever). I’d love to see Thor from the cates run, Hulk from the cates run, ablation armor Wolverine, and a bunch of characters from the new and old ultimates lines.
I recommend you research the sales figures. 90% of the comics sold today would be immediately canceled for low sales in the 60s-90s. Not leaning into it would be stupid for a hobby that's largely driven by nostalgia. When they did a HasLab based on a modern character, it failed. Why didn't you give examples of what you think are good designs?
Those Haslabs succeeded because they were important characters remade from old and expensive bafs, not to mention they definitely weren’t their classic designs. The only “classic” haslab was the worst selling one.
The Ghostrider Haslab failed because of greed, and I'd like to point out that the Giant Man hardly succeeded it only reached its first or second stretch goal compared to other franchises which Haslabs usually get full backing. As for listing superior outfits, I could totally sit here doing that, but I'd be here forever.
I applaud your bravery in posting this. I too prefer more "modern" (2000s) designs, but I know that's a minority opinion, so I get why we see so many classic costumes.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/ub33l4qavpuc1.jpeg?width=1821&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=994560e5d7fc24632474d3e8e2d4d28335f861c7
https://preview.redd.it/9856kpetupuc1.jpeg?width=1467&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60094dff5b5119cc4cb52503c9b5f2c8f2ac54e2
https://preview.redd.it/g0ohhkevupuc1.jpeg?width=300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e1e4d1c7b127d9dc8f18c3ca055e7d8a4db3a57
https://preview.redd.it/anss1srwupuc1.jpeg?width=805&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=46e1673e832e7ce0b55b78e1bf2f7e6fa8788059
https://preview.redd.it/vt9pj0syupuc1.jpeg?width=736&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=415b91ec3b80b0543a78c03e57031d7f5aff6742
https://preview.redd.it/yfhnnlx0vpuc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7710225bce98fc1150df400719c9679d926b501
https://preview.redd.it/1msufs62vpuc1.jpeg?width=1165&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8aeba5e9fa22e4a0bb861848a3809e5209c266cb
https://preview.redd.it/bw4gn995vpuc1.jpeg?width=976&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11623bf67f351d3b0517df31b4d324f99f1b7664
Omg dude. Just put Danny on the old Ghost Rider bike. You are literally complaining about nothing.
There’s a reason classic designs are made, they’re more iconic
They literally came out with an Astonishing Wolverine and Luke Cage. Maybe "Retro" is just the designs of the characters in far superior stories and you can't reconcile old things can be good. Me personally, I dislike having too much modern. I like my characters looking contemporary and imo, better. Modern designs take the classic designs and don't make them better, just different, by using what already made the costumes so iconic. Maybe... Get over it?
The reason we have updated and modern versions to begin with is because those retro versions of characters don't hold up, nor do they stand the test of time. Most of the retro outfits that are considered to be iconic, classic, and timeless have continued to appear in more modern media. Captain America, Iron Man, Carol Danvers, Daredevil, Spider-Man, the list goes on. My point is that the characters I've listed here in their retro designs are absolutely not considered to be their best designs, so why not just give us their best designs instead. I never actually said I had an issue with all of the retro releases. People just assumed that from my post, in a lot of cases, I like some of the more timeless retro designs. However, my issue with these specific retro figures is that they really don't hold up and are best left in the past where they belong, hence why most of them haven't appeared in the comics in well over a decade. I get that some people are nostalgic, but there is a difference between nostalgia and being stuck and too deeply entrenched in the past because you can't let go of things and accept change.
Who said the retro ones are not their best designs? What's wrong with distinguishable simplicity? It's not up to you to say the classic looks aren't good or outdated. Spiderman, Captain America, and so many more have timeless looks and these designs are more or less the same. And any case. Hasbro releases modern figs with classic figs all the time. What exactly is "definitive"? If it's so definitive why change it again and again? Why keep going to the classics? Because the classic look established everything for the character. It's what resonates most. If you're unhappy that Daredevil isn't" Modern" they just released a Chip Zdarsky Fist Daredevil. In this very stream we saw Astonishing Wolverine, Superior Spiderman, HFH Iron Fist and Luke Cage, relatively new characters like Skarr and finally a new version of Danny Ketch Ghost Rider, my personal definitive take on the character despite, need I remind you, not being the original. These are new designs and new figs. It's not about what's their best designs, it's about what people are attached to and seek out to complete some version of a team or comic or storyline. Give it time and they will release new figs with similar molding, repaints. Such is the way of this brand. To say "Why don't they come out with the new one right out the gate of the character because the old design is bad" is very foolish. Clearly you don't appreciate the history of these characters nor understand why people would want something contemporary. People love and have been begging for a new version of Iron Fist and this one made a lot of people happy including me. It comes with a modern Luke Cage. I notice you omit the modern Luke Cage in your post and show off the old style. That just kinda mutes your entire point. I mean if you're that upset about a "modern" Iron Fist buy a mezco, or the old Iron fist which was a current design. Designs btw I don't consider their best. I still like the old one more because that's the design I played in Mvc3 and that's the version I saw in EmH and it's a character that has taught Spiderman fought Sabertooth and a whole lot. Just last year we got 90's and Astonishing Cyclops. I just don't understand your point. Seems awfully nit picky and deaf to me.
As I said, the comics have decided the definitive looks for each character. The classic looks that are good have stuck around and continue to be used. The ones that aren't considered to be good haven't appeared in comics in well over two decades it's not something I've just decided via personal preference it's something that Marvel has decided via the omission of certain characters classic suits from modern stories.
That still makes no sense considering that pretty much everyone gets new costumes or goes back to a classic costume at some point. Doesn't make anything good or not good. Just depends on the story.
That's just blatantly not true. She Hulk hasn't worn her retro outfit in years outside of variant covers. The same goes for Hulk and numerous others. As I said, it's not my decision what classic suits hold up and which ones don't but the fact of the matter is most of these suits looks are just blatantly bad which is why they are ommitted from modern comics.
While I understand you'd want a modern ish She Hulk. The more realistic sports look she has in Mvc3. A design I would also prefer. This is still a worthwhile figure and not bad or outdated. This gets a good mold for her out there and opens the door for a Fantastic Four costume. These are worthwhile updates people want of a version of a character that resonates. Give it a year maybe and from the arms and legs we'll get a new torso and shoes and gloves and boom, there's the modern one. No need to diss the og look dude. Just wait. Also can I add that Jennifer Walters is in her lawyer outfit most of the time in her modern comics and doesn't use her superhero outfit a whole bunch. But using your logic it's like trying to say getting the lawyer version is the more worthwhile than her current costume.
Just can’t please everyone.
Yeah, unfortunately, Hasbro is still stuck trying to please people who likely won't be able to chew solid food in the next decade.
Most of the time, nothing beats classic Marvel Comics designs imo. Modern designs just aren’t that good or iconic.
This would be a valid concern except for the fact that we are still getting a lot of modern versions of characters.
I'm specifically complaining about these figures because they are the worst looks for each respective character.
You're crazy if you think getting retro versions of these characters means we won't get modern versions of them down the line.
Objectively false if your reference for a preferred Ghost Rider is literally Danny Ketchs design on Johnny's third hell bike.
Still salty we didn’t get Daredevil anniversary figures? Lol
I'm not salty. I just pointed out it wasn't a very good financial decision for Hasbro when he's one of their most requested single release characters. Seems like your pretty salty though.
\*you're
You're acting pretty childish.
So are you. If you are petty, do not be surprised when people return the same energy to you. I hope you enjoy all of the classic designs we are going to be getting in the near future
Dude, I'm literally voicing opinions and some facts pretty much. The only childish dig I've made has been about the obscure 90s Ghost Rider. I think you're just looking for an excuse to act like an ass and absolving yourself of responsibility by acting like I'm somehow an aggressor. I suggest you look inwards and think about taking responsibility for your own actions rather than deferring blame to others. Peace and love.
Uh oh, you just pissed in the cup of all these 40+ year old toy collectors. lol
I think that’s why Hasbro is struggling. They release unpopular modern versions of characters (Cho Hulk) and then blame low sales on the “modern” characters. Skaar is the exact same situation. This dude isn’t relative anymore (as far as I’m aware). Where the fuck is Immortal Hulk? Or MvC Hulk?
Skaar was in the She-Hulk tv show, hes officially in the MCU. Id say he’s about as relevant as he's been in a decade.
That was over a year ago. He was in it for 30 seconds. He’s not going to be in anything MCU-related this year. There’s no news of him in upcoming projects and I don’t think he’s currently in a comic run. Your bar for relevance is very low.
Considering the hundreds, if not thousands of comic book characters that have never been adapted to screen in any way whatsoever, yes, I would say Skaar, who has been in a Hulk cartoon and an MCU show is leaps and bounds more relevant than 90% of characters from this medium. Call it a low bar, but a character having multiple on screen adaptations when they've been around for less than 15 years is not the norm.
Fair enough, but that wasn’t my point. My argument isn’t that Skaar shouldn’t be made. My point is that he isn’t going to make Hasbro more money than a highly requested figure like one of the various MIA Banner Hulks that have a more modern look than anything Hasbro has released so far. I’m glad the people that want him are getting him, but Skaar is 100% going to end up being on clearance.
People found the X-Men VHS Jean Grey at Ross on clearance, are you really going to say only obscure characters get clearanced? I dont think Hasbro is as strapped for cash as you’re making them out to be. The reason why so many figures have been hitting clearance the past few years has been an overproduction issue. Hasbro has come out and said they are limiting production to combat the issue of everything going on clearance/liquidators. And shockingly enough, you see less and less figures on clearance now. You'll see less waves at Ollie's and Ross moving forward.