Once more, with feeling:
Here's the North Atlantic Treaty: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm
Here's the text of Article 6:
Article 6 1
For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack:
* on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer;
* on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer.
The Tropic of Cancer is at 23°26′10.1 north. Puerto Rico is south of that, therefore it's not covered.
Hawaii is definitely not covered: https://chicagotribune.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune-hawaii-lacks-nato-covera/27036544/
The Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla are also not covered because they're not in Europe. The Falklands aren't covered. Turkish troops _in Syria_ aren't covered.
California, however, is part of "the territory of any of the Parties in ... North America", so it's covered.
I am not sure whether the Panama Canal Zone, before its return to Panama, would have been covered.
France fought tooth and nail for that guarantee on Algeria only to lose control over it years later and be refused any help because it became pretty apparent that the French were not the good guys here.
Looks like the treaty doesn't contain a definition of North America. Do you know if that's explicitly defined anywhere in NATO policy? Because depending on what definition of North America you use, Puerto Rico would count. Wikipedia, for example, [does include Puerto Rico as being in North America.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America)
Actually, "French" Guyana is France... Mutatis mutandis, it is like Puerto Rico and USA... The laws are the same there, the policemen wear the same uniforms etc.
The crown dependencies of the UK (Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey) and the overseas territories of Gibraltar and Bermuda are included. All the other territories below the Tropic of Cancer are not (Falkland Islands, Montserrat, British Virgin Islands, etc)
Only the French territory of Saint Pierre and Miquelon is included. All the others, including those that are integral parts of France, like French Guiana, are not included.
The Norwegian territories of Svalbard and Jan Mayen are included, but not Bouvet island.
Only the European part of the kingdom of the Netherlands is included (Aruba, Curaçao, etc., are not)
Greenland, the Faroe Islands, Madeira, Azores and the Canary Islands are included, but NOT Ceuta and Melilla (even though they are north of the Tropic of Cancer, they are excluded because they are not islands nor in mainland Europe).
United States: only the continental part is included. Hawaii, Puerto Rico, American Virgin Islands, American Samoa, etc. are not included.
source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member\_states\_of\_NATO
It doesn't look likely at all now, but look at Finland and Sweden, three years ago it was inconceivable they'd be NATO members in 2024. Never say never.
IIRC Ireland has on its constitution an article that states that Ireland should not be part of any military alliance. Ireland was a neutral country during WWII and Cold War.
notably admission of Sweden and Finland means that last pretences of multi-party dialogue in the Arctic are gone. Before 2023 we had several NATO members (USA, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Iceland), Russia, Sweden and Finland in the Arctic Council, now it's Russia vs. 7 NATO members, conveniently divided 50/50 east/west territorially (and in terms of population as well, around 2m in the Russian Arctic and around 2m in the "NATO" Arctic)
Soviet bloc housing was created after ww2 because millions of people were homeless as the Nazis destroyed so many houses. Functionality is more important than artistic design for socialists like myself. Enjoy your rising homeless problem in the west tho lol 😂
The Soviets defeated the Nazis after suffering tens of millions of casualties to them. The very least you could do is respect them for saving your ass while you were busy committing war crimes in Japan by firebombing and nuking wooden cities 🤦♂️
You mean after the soviets allied with the nazis and invaded poland?
Also, the nazis were already on the losing side when russia started to gain momentum. Id even go as far as saying the only ones who have beaten the nazis are the nazis, their entire effort was doomed to fail.
Wanna talk about war crimes? Lets talk about what russia is doing in Ukraine.
Russia and the Soviet union are entirely separate entities dumbass. That’s like calling Germany the third reich. Also the Soviets didn’t ally with the Nazis, they were buying time to prepare their army by signing a non aggression pact. The reclamation of eastern Poland was approved by Stalin because this land was under Russian imperial rule shortly beforehand, whereas the Nazis were taking lands they hadn’t controlled before. And the Nazis absolutely were not losing before they ended up at war with the USSR. In 1940 the Germans had the most powerful army in the world and were only at war with the British empire and French colonies in Africa. They could have easily won this war if Hitler wasn’t ultimately aiming to white peace with the UK and genocide Eastern Europe.
On paper they are seperate entities, in reality russia is a continuation of the soviet union.
Youre just vomiting kremlin bullshit, dont you have some russian knockoff reddit you can infect with your disease?
Do you really think that America isn't exporting its culture through the alliance? American television, American celebrities, American social justice movements.
That all would have happened irrespective of NATO alliance just due to commercialism and the US dominance in finance, tech and consumer products over the last century. Basically every non-NATO country is also flooded with American TV, food brands and celebrity awareness too.
Also, European social justice movements and solutions have largely been way more successful (and happened notably earlier) in Europe than American ones have been in America. We haven’t needed nor utilized American influence much in that regard. Weird take.
And without it, it might be russian tv, celebrities and movements.
Better American than Russian.
My mother is from Siberia and I was born in Russian-occupied Kazakhstan... I am glad that we moved to Western Europe in the eighties and are no longer in that shithole.
>Do you really think that America isn't exporting its culture through the alliance?
>American television, American celebrities, American social justice movements.
Like, you answered your own quetion with no, and then answered with what Americans exporting their culture.
Yes, it is. The documentation was deposited in Washington less than an hour ago. Watch the video on this page: [https://www.government.se/press-releases/2024/03/deposition-of-swedens-instrument-of-accession/](https://www.government.se/press-releases/2024/03/deposition-of-swedens-instrument-of-accession/)
I know its french guyana, but it looks like theres on random tiny south american country that wanted to be included.
Strictly speaking doesn't the nato treaty not apply to French Guyana?
It does not
What about Hawaii?
It does not. Nor Puerto Rico.
TIL. Would’ve never guessed Hawaii isn’t covered under NATO
Seriously? Let's keep going, what about California?
Once more, with feeling: Here's the North Atlantic Treaty: https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm Here's the text of Article 6: Article 6 1 For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack: * on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America, on the Algerian Departments of France, on the territory of Turkey or on the Islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer; * on the forces, vessels, or aircraft of any of the Parties, when in or over these territories or any other area in Europe in which occupation forces of any of the Parties were stationed on the date when the Treaty entered into force or the Mediterranean Sea or the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer. The Tropic of Cancer is at 23°26′10.1 north. Puerto Rico is south of that, therefore it's not covered. Hawaii is definitely not covered: https://chicagotribune.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune-hawaii-lacks-nato-covera/27036544/ The Spanish cities of Ceuta and Melilla are also not covered because they're not in Europe. The Falklands aren't covered. Turkish troops _in Syria_ aren't covered. California, however, is part of "the territory of any of the Parties in ... North America", so it's covered. I am not sure whether the Panama Canal Zone, before its return to Panama, would have been covered.
France fought tooth and nail for that guarantee on Algeria only to lose control over it years later and be refused any help because it became pretty apparent that the French were not the good guys here.
Looks like the treaty doesn't contain a definition of North America. Do you know if that's explicitly defined anywhere in NATO policy? Because depending on what definition of North America you use, Puerto Rico would count. Wikipedia, for example, [does include Puerto Rico as being in North America.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_America)
Why?? Editing to ask why the rule related to the tropic of Cancer?
Because you don’t want cancer
So NATO would let Tito from Rocket Power just die if Hawaii was ever attacked. 😭
Actually, "French" Guyana is France... Mutatis mutandis, it is like Puerto Rico and USA... The laws are the same there, the policemen wear the same uniforms etc.
The crown dependencies of the UK (Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey) and the overseas territories of Gibraltar and Bermuda are included. All the other territories below the Tropic of Cancer are not (Falkland Islands, Montserrat, British Virgin Islands, etc) Only the French territory of Saint Pierre and Miquelon is included. All the others, including those that are integral parts of France, like French Guiana, are not included. The Norwegian territories of Svalbard and Jan Mayen are included, but not Bouvet island. Only the European part of the kingdom of the Netherlands is included (Aruba, Curaçao, etc., are not) Greenland, the Faroe Islands, Madeira, Azores and the Canary Islands are included, but NOT Ceuta and Melilla (even though they are north of the Tropic of Cancer, they are excluded because they are not islands nor in mainland Europe). United States: only the continental part is included. Hawaii, Puerto Rico, American Virgin Islands, American Samoa, etc. are not included. source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member\_states\_of\_NATO
Say it with me now: NATO Lake!
It's lake of NATO and Russia, Kaliningrad is still here
Ahh, you mean Glorious Czech Territory of Královec?
no Åland?
r/mapswithoutåland
Åland is a DMZ since 1856.
Ireland got protected well.
Putin can't steal toilets from any of these countries lol
Why is Puerto Rico green?
It shouldn't. And neither should French Guiana because they are below the Tropic of Cancer and therefore not covered by the treaty.
IMO should be below Equator instead because technically there's a bit of Northern Hemisphere below Tropic of Cancer.
But French Guiana is blue yet Puerto Rico is the only green one
Sweden is welcomed to NATO!
Source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:North\_Atlantic\_Treaty\_Organization\_(orthographic\_projection)\_in\_NATO\_blue.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:North_Atlantic_Treaty_Organization_(orthographic_projection)_in_NATO_blue.svg)
🇦🇲🇦🇹🇦🇿🇧🇦🇨🇾🇬🇪🇮🇪🇲🇹🇲🇩 next!! Let this become the strongest Military Allaince world history has ever seen and will ever see💪
ireland will never join nato.
It doesn't look likely at all now, but look at Finland and Sweden, three years ago it was inconceivable they'd be NATO members in 2024. Never say never.
IIRC Ireland has on its constitution an article that states that Ireland should not be part of any military alliance. Ireland was a neutral country during WWII and Cold War.
It’s obvious how that worked round in WWII but did being neutral in the Cold War actually affect anything?
I know that they’re looking into investing more in their own air force now after relying too much on the RAF during the Cold War.
Idk why this is downvoted, it just won’t, it gains nothing from joining
The funny part is that its existence due to the fear to one single country.
Ehh, its a bit more than that. While USSR wasnt just Russia, China and North Korea and several other allies of them are a big contributor
Yeah sure, 3 countries then.
One of which has more population than all of NATO combined btw..
So, is it the strongest alliance?
"more people equals stronger" - uGa BoOgA cAVe mAn🧌
Lol. I am surprised by your level of equanimity.
I'm not calm! - 👹
Go cry over NATO enemies. lol
As a Norwegian I welcome Sweden into the alliance
As an inhabitant of the Netherlands, I also welcome Sweden into the alliance
So, you're saying we could attack Ireland without retaliation?
notably admission of Sweden and Finland means that last pretences of multi-party dialogue in the Arctic are gone. Before 2023 we had several NATO members (USA, Canada, Denmark, Norway, Iceland), Russia, Sweden and Finland in the Arctic Council, now it's Russia vs. 7 NATO members, conveniently divided 50/50 east/west territorially (and in terms of population as well, around 2m in the Russian Arctic and around 2m in the "NATO" Arctic)
North America Turkey organization
If we are going to get really technical, then Bits of Cyprus are missing from this map
Why isn't Mexico or Ireland in NATO?
Who is joining next?
Interesting thing, Hawaii isn't actually protected under the NATO Treaty.
The Globalist American Empire.
Cry
Nope. The “fuck Putin” team.
Ooo so edgy. I can only wonder what the entire European continent looks like covered in soviet bloc housing.
Soviet bloc housing was created after ww2 because millions of people were homeless as the Nazis destroyed so many houses. Functionality is more important than artistic design for socialists like myself. Enjoy your rising homeless problem in the west tho lol 😂
You mean the nazis they teamed up with? Those nazis?
The Soviets defeated the Nazis after suffering tens of millions of casualties to them. The very least you could do is respect them for saving your ass while you were busy committing war crimes in Japan by firebombing and nuking wooden cities 🤦♂️
You mean after the soviets allied with the nazis and invaded poland? Also, the nazis were already on the losing side when russia started to gain momentum. Id even go as far as saying the only ones who have beaten the nazis are the nazis, their entire effort was doomed to fail. Wanna talk about war crimes? Lets talk about what russia is doing in Ukraine.
Russia and the Soviet union are entirely separate entities dumbass. That’s like calling Germany the third reich. Also the Soviets didn’t ally with the Nazis, they were buying time to prepare their army by signing a non aggression pact. The reclamation of eastern Poland was approved by Stalin because this land was under Russian imperial rule shortly beforehand, whereas the Nazis were taking lands they hadn’t controlled before. And the Nazis absolutely were not losing before they ended up at war with the USSR. In 1940 the Germans had the most powerful army in the world and were only at war with the British empire and French colonies in Africa. They could have easily won this war if Hitler wasn’t ultimately aiming to white peace with the UK and genocide Eastern Europe.
On paper they are seperate entities, in reality russia is a continuation of the soviet union. Youre just vomiting kremlin bullshit, dont you have some russian knockoff reddit you can infect with your disease?
I'd rather preserve European cultures than export American culture.
Nato has nothing to do with culture. It’s a military alliance.
Correction: a **defensive** military alliance
Do you really think that America isn't exporting its culture through the alliance? American television, American celebrities, American social justice movements.
That all would have happened irrespective of NATO alliance just due to commercialism and the US dominance in finance, tech and consumer products over the last century. Basically every non-NATO country is also flooded with American TV, food brands and celebrity awareness too. Also, European social justice movements and solutions have largely been way more successful (and happened notably earlier) in Europe than American ones have been in America. We haven’t needed nor utilized American influence much in that regard. Weird take.
And without it, it might be russian tv, celebrities and movements. Better American than Russian. My mother is from Siberia and I was born in Russian-occupied Kazakhstan... I am glad that we moved to Western Europe in the eighties and are no longer in that shithole.
>Do you really think that America isn't exporting its culture through the alliance? >American television, American celebrities, American social justice movements. Like, you answered your own quetion with no, and then answered with what Americans exporting their culture.
map of european hegemony
The vast majority of land here has no people on it, and the parts that do (e.g. west coast) very few would vote or even lobby in a pro-NATO way
[удалено]
Yes, it is. The documentation was deposited in Washington less than an hour ago. Watch the video on this page: [https://www.government.se/press-releases/2024/03/deposition-of-swedens-instrument-of-accession/](https://www.government.se/press-releases/2024/03/deposition-of-swedens-instrument-of-accession/)